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lifetravelergirl
10-18-2013, 09:48 PM
I talked to my father tonight and he seems to think I have to sign up for insurance regarding this Obama Care thing. Honestly I am just trying to make enough money to survive and save up to pay the IRS and H&R Block. Is this Obama Care thing something I need to actively look into? O_O

pinups4
10-18-2013, 11:13 PM
yes. it's the law. The govt can now FORCE you to buy something you may not want. Just wait, this is the first in a long line of new "correct thought/action" laws.

I would prefer the reverse (AND i wish this were true for motorcyclists without helmets/vehicle passengers not in seatbelts)....choose not to be insured, fine. We choose not to treat you on the taxpayer dime.

lifetravelergirl
10-18-2013, 11:40 PM
In the United States I think if instead of spending tax dollars paying back the interest on imaginary money or instead of funding perpetual war we could easily create a system for taking care of people's medical needs but we can't seem to do that. We can however give away money and goods to foreign countries in exchange for adherence to laws (etc.) that we want to force on other nations but that is just food and aid warfare which is really just more of what we are famous for, warfare, meddling, trying to control the world.

charlotte.
10-19-2013, 02:57 AM
In the United States I think if instead of spending tax dollars paying back the interest on imaginary money or instead of funding perpetual war we could easily create a system for taking care of people's medical needs but we can't seem to do that. We can however give away money and goods to foreign countries in exchange for adherence to laws (etc.) that we want to force on other nations but that is just food and aid warfare which is really just more of what we are famous for, warfare, meddling, trying to control the world.

to be fair, that is what obama tried to do....but instead we got this weird lopsided bill that nobody seems to like :(.

the bill did expand medicare but about half of the states opted out of that. check to see if your state is one that didn't opt out and see if you qualify.

you can also ask your club if they provide any assistance. in my city one club has employee dancers so provides health care but I've heard that other independent contractor clubs are also offering a plan.

Melonie
10-19-2013, 04:38 AM
politics aside, there is a very thorough discussion of this topic in a Dollar Den thread titled 'Health Care Plans'

In the way of a very brief summary ...

- The new ObamaCare law requires every American to obtain 'qualifying' health insurance coverage in 2014, or pay a new IRS penalty.

- "qualifying' health insurance coverage must cover such things as substance abuse treatment, mental health treatment etc. ... thus low premium cost health insurance policies that only cover 'catastrophic' illnesses or injuries will no longer be available in 2014.

- 'qualifying' health insurance coverage may be obtained through employers in some cases ... but typically just for 'full time employees' ( i.e. workers receiving weekly paychecks that are working 30 or more hours per week ). Independent contractors need not be provided health care coverage by the place they work

- 'qualifying' health insurance coverage can be purchased through both a private insurance agent as well as through new gov't run Public Health Insurance Exchanges. If purchased through the new gov't run exchanges, taxpayer subsidies may be available to offset part of the cost of the insurance premiums

- Taxpayer subsidies are NOT available for anyone earning more than 400% of the Federal Poverty Level, which is about $46,000 per year for a single person with no dependents. Taxpayer subsidies increase with decreasing incomes down to 133% of the Federal Poverty Level, which is about $14,500 for a single person with no dependents. Below the $14,500 income level, the person is 'shifted' to 'Expanded' Medicaid coverage ( which is essentially free, but has other consequences ) where available.

- Every state will have a Public Health Insurance Exchange available. Some will be run by the states, while others will be run by the US Federal gov't. States that run their own Exchanges will offer 'Expanded' Medicaid coverage. States that elected to let the federal gov't run their Exchanges will not ... meaning that 'regular' Medicaid coverage income level will be about $11,000 for a single person with no dependents.

- Very roughly speaking, and with much variation from state to state, the cost of 'qualifying' health insurance premiums for a single 25 year old with no dependents earning $46,000+ per year will be in the ballpark of $175 to $250 per month.

- If Americans choose not to purchase 'qualifying' health insurance, after three months of 2014 passing without having 'qualifying' health insurance coverage they will owe the IRS a new tax penalty amounting to 1% of their adjusted gross income ( this rises to 2% in 2015 and 2.5% thereafter ) - or $460 for a single 25 year old earning $46,000 per year. For independent contractors, that new 1% tax penalty is thus due and payable on April 1st and will need to be paid as part of their first quarter estimated tax payment due by April 15th 2014 ( in addition to rhe other estimated tax money due for social security tax and income tax on money earned between January 1st and April 1st 2014 ).

- this week's Washington budget 'deal' includes a specific requirement that eligibility for taxpayer subsidies for people buying insurance through the Public Health Exchanges be 'verified'. This will undoubtedly mean cross-links between the Public Health Exchanges and IRS records showing the person's reported income level. While the cross-checking of reported income levels for 2013 and previous years is unknown at this time, cross-checking of 2014 tax returns is a certainty.

- There is a 'claw back' provision in place that allows the gov't to reclaim taxpayer subsidy money 'given' to lower income people in the form of lower monthly health insurance premiums based on a certain estimated 2014 income level, where the person's actual reported 2014 income level turns out to be higher than estimated thus rendering them ineligible for that level of taxpayer subsidy. Any taxpayer subsidy money to which the person was not actually eligible will be 'clawed back' out of 2014 income taxes ( by April 15th 2015 ).

- the IRS has hired 16,000 additional auditors for the express purpose of enforcing these new ObamaCare tax provisions, which more or less doubles the total number of IRS auditors available.

simone87
10-19-2013, 07:34 AM
yes you do, or they will be charging you or taking a chunk outta your taxes..oh and H&R block blows!! they charged me 400 for 10 minutes of doing my taxes, try to find a better place.they also fucked up my taxes to the point where i got a mini-audit by the state. kinda off-topic but yeah

Trem
10-19-2013, 08:42 AM
The penalty for not getting it this first year is 95 bucks. Which is obviously much much cheaper than actually getting health insurance, but you also don't get the benefit of having health insurance. And you are right, it would be wonderful if we could join the rest of the civilized world and have universal healthcare, but this is the first step in that direction.

Melonie
10-19-2013, 01:56 PM
^^^ wrong, the 2014 penalty is $95 or 1% of actual income, whichever is greater. The 2015 penalty is $325 or 2 %. The penalty for 2016 and $695 or 2.5%

see

simone87
10-19-2013, 03:43 PM
in mass its an 800 dollar penalty for me, so obamacare is kinda besides the point..but melonie's right, the penalty goes up

eagle2
10-19-2013, 07:38 PM
You should definitely look into it. If you're barely getting by, you may be eligible for subsidies or Medicaid. You're not required to purchase health insurance if the lowest cost plan available costs more than 8 percent of your income.

charlotte.
10-19-2013, 08:04 PM
also if you're under 26 and got kicked off your parents ins you can sign back up with no penalty!

Melonie
10-19-2013, 11:50 PM
^^^ also true, but that doesn't mean that the parent won't wind up spending significantly more money for 'family' coverage through an employer health insurance plan. The Public Health exchanges also are providing 'family' coverage options if the parent doesn't have employer health insurance available.



If you're barely getting by, you may be eligible for subsidies or Medicaid

Indeed, if you live in a state that runs its own Public Health Insurance Exchange, if you earn less than ~$300 per week you will probably be eligible for Expanded Medicaid coverage. While such coverage is 'free', if is still Medicaid ... meaning that the state will eventually attempt to recover the dollar value of the benefits it has provided.

Trem
10-20-2013, 09:04 AM
^^^ wrong, the 2014 penalty is $95 or 1% of actual income, whichever is greater. The 2015 penalty is $325 or 2 %. The penalty for 2016 and $695 or 2.5%

see http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/13/news/economy/obamacare-penalty/

You are absolutely right and obviously i knew that, but she said she is barely getting by so i imagined the 95 bucks was the most likely of the two for her.

Sophia_Starina
10-21-2013, 11:00 AM
So... you're telling me.... some people don't want health insurance?

I don't understand this!

indiegirl
10-21-2013, 11:31 AM
Obamacare needs 7 million people to sign up or else it goes under. Don't sign up.
I talked to my father tonight and he seems to think I have to sign up for insurance regarding this Obama Care thing. Honestly I am just trying to make enough money to survive and save up to pay the IRS and H&R Block. Is this Obama Care thing something I need to actively look into? O_O

slowpoke
10-21-2013, 12:09 PM
Nothing in here says the government should be in the insurance or medical care business.
Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Trem
10-21-2013, 12:13 PM
Obamacare needs 7 million people to sign up or else it goes under. Don't sign up.

Why not?

Sophia_Starina
10-21-2013, 12:21 PM
Obamacare needs 7 million people to sign up or else it goes under. Don't sign up.

I'm calling shenanigans on your post (quoted above).

You are aware that clubs don't provide health insurance like other jobs do, right? If the Affordable Care Act "goes under", a lot of people with preexisting conditions, with unconventional/freelance/independent jobs, and part time jobs could face serious financial hardship if they are not covered and end up sick or injured. Why would you advise someone risk their health and finances to make a point?

simone87
10-21-2013, 12:27 PM
its going to royally mess up an already messed economy..one point in favor of it going under

Melonie
10-21-2013, 01:01 PM
So... you're telling me.... some people don't want health insurance?

I don't understand this!

Well, consider it from a 'real world' standpoint in 2014. As a successful full time single dancer you earn more than the $46,000 annual cutoff for taxpayer funded subsidies. Without any pre-existing conditions, as a health 20-something year old ObamaCare health insurance premiums are going to cost you $2,000 - $3,000 per year ( depending on which state you live in and which level you choose ). Additionally, before ObamaCare health insurance pays one dime toward medical bills to treat an illness or injury, you'll have to first pay a $3,000+ deductible out of pocket. And once you HAVE paid the first $3,000+ in deductible, you then get to pay 30-40% in co-pays above that amount ... up to the point where the $6,350 annual out of pocket limit is finally reached and ObamaCare insurance then pays 100% for medical treatment. However, it is unclear whether ObamaCare will pay 100% for prescription drugs above the $6,350 annual out-of-pocket limit, versus requiring a 30-40% co-pay no matter how high the total cost goes. And recent reports from hospitals ... who under ObamaCare have extremely little ability to recover unreimbursed deductibles and/or co-pays from ObamaCare insured patients AFTER medical treatment has been provided ... show that they are increasingly likely to demand that ObamaCare patients pony up their entire deductible and co-pay amounts in cash BEFORE medical treatment will be provided. See


On the other hand, since ObamaCare specifically prohibits denial of insurance ... or charging higher premiums ... due to pre-existing conditions, why on earth would anybody want to spend $2,000-$3,000 for health insurance premiums BEFORE they actually become sick or injured and KNOW that they're going to be incurring major medical bills ? It's much cheaper to simply pay the new IRS tax penalty while you remain healthy, and if / when you do become sick or injured you can sign up for ObamaCare coverage just before going to the hospital emergency room.


Or consider it from a 'real world' standpoint, but from the other end of the spectrum. You're a very part-time dancer or camgirl who earns $200-$300 a week. As such, you fall below the income threshold for Exchange insurance and will be signed up for Expanded Medicaid when you apply at the Public Health Exchange. Yes this provides you 'free' health insurance, but also limits you to doctors and hospitals that will accept Medicaid insurance ( which pays significantly less than private insurance for a given medical service ). And as a form of Medicaid, the state keeps a running total of the cash value of all medical care provided to you for 'free', but doesn't do anything about that before you reach age 55. However, when you do reach age 55, the state will step in and attempt to recover that cash value from you - with 'interest', thus ( for example ) denying your future children the ability to inherit the future house you will buy, the future savings and investments you will accumulate, etc.

here's an explanation from the Daily KOS ...

(snip)"if you go on Medicaid, you owe the entire amount that Medicaid spends on you from the day you turn 55.

And that amount is not just what is spent on your doctor visits and your treatments, whatever they may be. No, there is also something called a "capitation charge." For each enrollee, a base cost is assigned to the entity that administers the program. How much will that charge be? It varies by state, and as far as I can tell by other variables as well, but it could be hundreds of dollars per month, or more. (If you have specific information on this, please do share it!)

How will this play out? No one knows, as far as I can tell. But it is easy to see how this could become a real problem. If someone is low income and goes on Medicaid, will Medicaid put a lien on their house? If they need to sell their house and move, will they then lose all their equity in paying off the lien? Will people get hit with bills and liens for many thousands of dollars, even if they were healthy and hardly ever went to the doctor?

Why is it that Medicaid is pretty much cost free to use up to age 54 if you qualify, and suddenly becomes a collateral loan at age 55, for which a state agency will do its best to collect payment in full for every cost assigned? It seems clear that the Estate Recovery law did not anticipate the current circumstance with the ACA, and that putting the two laws together makes for a terribly unfair situation for some."(snip)


Also, ObamaCare is precipitating a third option ... 'Concierge Medicine'. In this new business model, doctors / clinics totally refuse to accept health insurance ( both private market and Public Health Exchange ), they get rid of the large office staffs necessary to handle all of the insurance reimbursement paperwork, and instead they directly offer medical care to self-paying patients at MAJOR discounts. Rejecting the 'rules' set in place by ObamaCare means that doctors can spend more time with patients, can make decisions about treatments that aren't limited by the list of what ObamaCare will pay for vs what it won't, etc. See

michele11
10-21-2013, 01:48 PM
also if you're under 26 and got kicked off your parents ins you can sign back up with no penalty!

My question and nothing against you but I've read this a lot here. Why can't a dancer afford her own insurance. I've had it since I was 20 and had a regular job. I read a lot of girls here in their 20's on their parents insurance. Hell if you dance and can't afford insurance then you should get a regular job. Lol. I also won't pay for my daughters after she turns 20. Kids today are so spoiled. Lol. That's why their work ethic sucks!

michele11
10-21-2013, 01:56 PM
its going to royally mess up an already messed economy..one point in favor of it going under

What fucks everything up is the people who go to the emergency room all the time because they don't have insurance and never pay the bill. We should have socialized medicine! Poorer countries than ours offer healthcare to their people but everything here is marked up 300%. We pay enough taxes that we should get socialized medicine. Well I do. 80% of the entertainers I work with don't even pay any!

simone87
10-21-2013, 01:59 PM
i totally agree that we need socialized medicine, just like canada..we pay taxes, so it should benefit the citizens who pay it , not pay for bail-outs and wars and greedy politicians!! the whole health care system is soo fucked up in this country but i feel like what he is implementing is going to mess it up even further.
i go to the doctor so rarely that i just pay out of pocket, the cost is ridiculous but my experience with any kind of insurance has been not so good when you actually need them to pony up.

Melonie
10-21-2013, 02:00 PM
Why can't a dancer afford her own insurance

^^^ 'affordable' is a relative term. Until the end of this year, many states allowed health insurance companies to provide 'catastrophic only' or very high deductible or 'limited coverage' health insurance policies. These sort of policies were very popular with young and healthy people because of the very low cost monthly premiums they were able to offer, versus the very low probability that a young and healthy person would develop a serious chronic illness etc. However, 'qualifying' coverage under ObamaCare now adds coverage for such things as substance abuse treatment, mental health treatment, etc. ... as well as 'free' coverage for birth control and other routine services ... which significantly expands the sphere of coverage thus significantly increases monthly premium cost. After the first of the year, those $50-$100 per month 'catastrophic only' or very high deductible or 'limited coverage' health insurance policies will become extinct, instead requiring the purchase of 'qualified' health insurance coverage at a cost of $175-$250+ per month.



We pay enough taxes that we should get socialized medicine. Well I do. 80% of the entertainers I work with don't even pay any!

ObamaCare will change that too !!! While the requirement for businesses was waived for this year, next year ObamaCare will require 1099 reports to the IRS for any 'worker' receiving more than $600 from a given 'payer' throughout the year. The ObamaCare sign-up process supposedly links to IRS files, such that the 'claimed' income level ( thus amount of taxpayer subsidy applied to the ObamaCare health insurance monthly premium ) will be cross-checked against previous year and future 2014 tax return filings. ObamaCare funded the IRS to hire 16,000 new auditors for the specific purpose of enforcing ObamaCare related tax issues, and the IRS is already on record that they will make a priority of investigating compliance for 'cash' businesses.
.

michele11
10-21-2013, 02:07 PM
Melonie you always go on and on about healthy people wasting money on insurance. A young person could get cancer, a bad car accident, a broken arm. All these things would potentially bankrupt someone if they had no insurance and needed to be treated. My dad surgery to remove part od his lung was 300,000. a one day stay in the hospital is 10,000. I'd rather take my chances and pay instead of being penniless if I had something catastrophic happen.

Melonie
10-21-2013, 02:12 PM
^^^ that's your choice. However, if a young person without insurance does get cancer, they can stop by the Public Health Insurance Exchange and sign up for ObamaCare coverage on their way to their first Chemotherapy treatment and have that and all future treatments covered !!! THAT is the major difference between ObamaCare and previous private health insurance coverage ... which would have turned away a person diagnosed with cancer attempting to sign up for insurance coverage, or would have charged them an outrageously high monthly health insurance premium. Under ObamaCare, not only can't the person diagnosed with cancer be turned away, but they also can't be charged a higher monthly premium !!!

I would also point out another ObamaCare economic fact. While the taxpayer subsidized ObamaCare health insurance premiums are limited to a maximum percentage of income ... which tops out at 9% of $46,000 ( i.e. the maximum amount of earnings which still qualify for taxpayer subsidies ) ... people earning more than $46,000 per year have no such limit on the future year cost of ObamaCare insurance premiums. For this year, the health insurance companies offering coverage on the Public Health Exchanges calculated their monthly premiums based on a certain set of assumptions regarding the demographics of those who will sign up for ObamaCare health insurance coverage ... so many percent young and healthy people, so many percent 'chronically sick' people, so many people earning less than $14k per year, so many people earning less than $46k per year, so many people earning more than $46k per year, etc. However, if those demographics don't actually pan out, next year's ObamaCare health insurance premiums will have to be 'readjusted'.

So far, from the little that is available in the way of statistics, a LARGE number of those signing up for ObamaCare are those who have expensive to treat pre-existing conditions, are those whose incomes fall below the $46k per year threshold where they will receive taxpayer subsidies, are those whose incomes fall below the $14k per year threshold where they will receive 'free' Expanded Medicaid coverage etc. This is understandable, since these are the people who will be able to financially benefit from ObamaCare. However, if there aren't sufficient sign-ups by young and healthy people to offset the subsidized insurance coverage above, next year's premium costs may be subject to MAJOR adjustments for those who earn more than $46k per year ( and thus aren't capped at 9% of income ).

Eric Stoner
10-21-2013, 02:14 PM
Melonie you always go on and on about healthy people wasting money on insurance. A young person could get cancer, a bad car accident, a broken arm. All these things would potentially bankrupt someone if they had no insurance and needed to be treated. My dad surgery to remove part od his lung was 300,000. a one day stay in the hospital is 10,000. I'd rather take my chances and pay instead of being penniless if I had something catastrophic happen.

Which is why they used to have CATASTROPHIC Insurance Plans. To cover young and healthy people for major , unexpected medical expenses. I don't think those policies will even be available under Obamacare.

charlotte.
10-21-2013, 02:19 PM
My question and nothing against you but I've read this a lot here. Why can't a dancer afford her own insurance. I've had it since I was 20 and had a regular job. I read a lot of girls here in their 20's on their parents insurance. Hell if you dance and can't afford insurance then you should get a regular job. Lol. I also won't pay for my daughters after she turns 20. Kids today are so spoiled. Lol. That's why their work ethic sucks!

well many under 26 dancers are in school. most of the time ive been dancing I've been making good dancing money but either working too infrequently (usually 2-3 shifts/month around finals) and spending a ton on school tuition. so even making $1k/night didn't give me enough expendable income to put $500-700/month towards insurance, which is how much it would have cost me to get a plan like my parents. it also costs them nothing extra to keep me on so why not?

most regular jobs that 20 yr olds qualify for don't provide quality (if any) health ins.

Melonie
10-21-2013, 02:33 PM
it also costs them nothing extra to keep me on so why not?

Actually, where most employers having to now provide 'qualified' insurance coverage is concerned, that's probably not going to remain true in 2014. The 'employee' will be required to pay a significantly higher amount towards 'family' coverage versus 'individual' coverage. Also, ObamaCare indeed requires that employers must allow employees to keep dependent children on the employer's insurance plan until the dependent child reaches age 26. However, ObamaCare does NOT require that employers must allow employees to keep dependent SPOUSES on the employer's insurance plan. As such, while your father may be able to keep providing you dependent health insurance coverage next year ( at a higher cost per paycheck ), your mom might wind up having to buy coverage for herself through a Public Health Insurance Exchange. See

(snip)"About a fifth of companies had policies to discourage spouses from joining their health plan in 2012, according to Mercer, though most just charged extra—$100 a month, on average—to cover spouses who could get insurance elsewhere, rather than deny coverage entirely. Indeed, large firms including generics maker Teva and supply chain manager Intermec have spousal surcharges costing $100 a month, or $1,200 annually, while Xerox charges $1,000 for the year. Next year, 33% of companies plan to impose a surcharge on working spouses, up from 20% this year, according to Towers Watson.

But experts say more firms are likely to drop spouses altogether, whether they work or not—especially when the new federal health-care exchanges open in 2014, providing an alternative for spouses left out in the cold. “When there’s a place for people to go, employers won’t feel as beholden or compelled to cover the spouse,” says Joan Smyth, an employee benefits consultant with Mercer.

Firms that recently decided to drop spouses from their plans range from private insurance agencies to school systems and universities like Ball State, as well as large companies like pump and valve manufacturer Flowserve. Wisconsin-based furniture company KI carved out spouses this year when couples flocked to its plan for the first time during open enrollment. “Now, each employer is responsible for its own employee”(snip)

michele11
10-21-2013, 02:39 PM
^^^ 'affordable' is a relative term. Until the end of this year, many states allowed health insurance companies to provide 'catastrophic only' or very high deductible or 'limited coverage' health insurance policies. These sort of policies were very popular with young and healthy people because of the very low cost monthly premiums they were able to offer, versus the very low probability that a young and healthy person would develop a serious chronic illness etc. However, 'qualifying' coverage under ObamaCare now adds coverage for such things as substance abuse treatment, mental health treatment, etc. ... as well as 'free' coverage for birth control and other routine services ... which significantly expands the sphere of coverage thus significantly increases monthly premium cost. After the first of the year, those $50-$100 per month 'catastrophic only' or very high deductible or 'limited coverage' health insurance policies will become extinct, instead requiring the purchase of 'qualified' health insurance coverage at a cost of $175-$250+ per month.




ObamaCare will change that too !!! While the requirement for businesses was waived for this year, next year ObamaCare will require 1099 reports to the IRS for any 'worker' receiving more than $600 from a given 'payer' throughout the year. The ObamaCare sign-up process supposedly links to IRS files, such that the 'claimed' income level ( thus amount of taxpayer subsidy applied to the ObamaCare health insurance monthly premium ) will be cross-checked against previous year and future 2014 tax return filings. ObamaCare funded the IRS to hire 16,000 new auditors for the specific purpose of enforcing ObamaCare related tax issues, and the IRS is already on record that they will make a priority of investigating compliance for 'cash' businesses.
.

Yeah and I pay 350? So. I'd rather not pay my homeowners insurance policies. Lol. Never had a claim in 21 years( oops I shouldn't jinx myself) but I've used my health insurance more than my car or homeowners over the last 20 years. Dancers are all over this board bragging their earnings they surely could afford 300 for insurance but they'd rather spend it on clothes or whatever. You never know what can happen. You could fall in your front yard and have to go to the emergency room( I don't know if you've been to one lately) but I was there for20 min last time and the bill was 600. For nothing, just to look at my nose for 5 min.

Melonie
10-21-2013, 02:45 PM
!^^^ well, my answer to that is to drive 30 minutes north across the Mexican border and get treatment at a Mexican provincial capital's world class hospital ... at a cost of about US$50 !

As to your specific point, consider the 'real world' consequences of your fall in the front yard next year ...

uninsured person pays a ~$400 Obamacare IRS penalty for not having insurance, and goes to the emergency room and pays $600 cash to have their nose looked at. Total cost $1000.

ObamaCare insured person pays $2,000-$3,000 in insurance premiums, goes to the emergency room, and is asked to pre-pay $600 of their $3,000 annual deductible in cash before their nose will be looked at. Total cost $2,600-$3,600.

Of course, the real reason that your example trip to the ER cost you $600 is that Medicaid only pays the hospital $250 to perform the same service for a beneficiary, and that the law requires the hospital to perform the same service for an illegal immigrant for 'free' ... but that's a whole 'nuther story !

To evaluate the pros and cons of ObamaCare it's absolutely necessary to let go of old paradigms that no longer apply. The major obsolete paradigm is that if a person doesn't 'invest' in health insurance coverage BEFORE they become seriously ill or injured, that they won't be able to get insurance coverage AFTER they become seriously ill or injured ... thus they're exposing themselves to huge medical bill cost risks. Under ObamaCare, pre-existing conditions no longer matter. Thus there's really no 'real world' difference between purchasing ObamaCare insurance while you are healthy and waiting to purchase ObamaCare insurance after you become sick or injured ... other than shelling out the $1,600 to $2,600 annual difference between the IRS tax penalty and the cost of ObamaCare insurance premiums !!!

indiegirl
10-21-2013, 04:01 PM
If not enough people sign up, it will go under. You may qualify for medicaid if you can't afford obamacare.

They always take care of the uninsured, the homeless, and illegal immigrants in hospitals even if they can't afford to pay. Every single day free of charge they do this for the uninsured...

safado
10-21-2013, 04:17 PM
If not enough people sign up, it will go under. You may qualify for medicaid if you can't afford obamacare.

They always take care of the uninsured, the homeless, and illegal immigrants in hospitals even if they can't afford to pay. Every single day free of charge they do this for the uninsured...

Wow, so you mean that they provide free cancer treatment (surgery/chemo) to every one free of charge?

http://www.gifday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2lmlxme.gif

michele11
10-21-2013, 04:51 PM
well many under 26 dancers are in school. most of the time ive been dancing I've been making good dancing money but either working too infrequently (usually 2-3 shifts/month around finals) and spending a ton on school tuition. so even making $1k/night didn't give me enough expendable income to put $500-700/month towards insurance, which is how much it would have cost me to get a plan like my parents. it also costs them nothing extra to keep me on so why not?

most regular jobs that 20 yr olds qualify for don't provide quality (if any) health ins.

Yes that's why I went out and bought it on my own at 20. If you make a grand a night you certainly could afford your own insurance. I had a regular job making about 400 a week and did.

michele11
10-21-2013, 04:53 PM
Which is why they used to have CATASTROPHIC Insurance Plans. To cover young and healthy people for major , unexpected medical expenses. I don't think those policies will even be available under Obamacare.

Yes! And the point of my post is melonie is always saying there's no need for young healthy cam, strippers to have it!

charlotte.
10-21-2013, 05:48 PM
If not enough people sign up, it will go under. You may qualify for medicaid if you can't afford obamacare.

They always take care of the uninsured, the homeless, and illegal immigrants in hospitals even if they can't afford to pay. Every single day free of charge they do this for the uninsured...

?? haha you must be trolling??

medicaid was expanded under obamacare. if you didn't qualify before but qualify now, you can thank obamacare.

and if the uninsured were "always" taken care of for free, then healthcare wouldn't be an issue for anyone. lol.

charlotte.
10-21-2013, 05:53 PM
Yes that's why I went out and bought it on my own at 20. If you make a grand a night you certainly could afford your own insurance. I had a regular job making about 400 a week and did.

I certainly couldn't afford $700/month when I was making $2-3k/month. even if I could, why would I throw away $ for something I already have for free? that's stupid.

I agree with you that 20 yr olds should take their health seriously and its ridiculous that so many don't have ins when they are spending lots of $ on clothes and nails and cars. but if someone has something already for free, it would be stupid to use part of their income to pay for it again when that money could go to savings or tuition.

Melonie
10-21-2013, 06:40 PM
so you mean that they provide free cancer treatment (surgery/chemo) to every one free of charge?

Technically speaking, an uninsured person diagnosed with cancer can sign up for ObamaCare, pay one month's insurance premium plus their deductible, and the costs of any cancer treatments exceeding the $6,350 annual out-of-pocket limit will be 100% paid for by ObamaCare insurance.

Well, with one qualification ... any cancer treatment that is 'approved' by the ObamaCare Independent Payment Advisory Board. For a 25 year old, odds are that extensive treatments will be 'approved'. However if the person is 55 years old, maybe not ...

from

(snip)"cost has to be a consideration when it comes to healthcare, as it is with every decision made in life. Everyday Americans weigh costs against the benefit of additional safety, when we buy cars, new appliances, or decide what path to take home. Yet such cost-benefit considerations should be made, whenever possible, at the individual level. Americans should be concerned when it is the government, or in the case of Obamacare, a small cadre of politically-influenced bureaucrats that comprise the Independent Payment Advisory Board, who are tasked with making a cost-benefit analysis for all Americans."(snip)

As yet we don't know how the new IPAB will actually operate. However, based on similar bodies in the UK, Canada and other countries with socialized medicine, the 'approval' of expensive treatments will be based on a cost vs benefit calculation based on the probability that the patient will 'recover', the probable number of years the patient's life will be extended by the treatment, the 'quality' of life the patient will wind up having after the treatment etc. See This is a departure from current US health insurance, where a health insurance policy either covers a particular procedure for everyone who has that insurance, or it doesn't.



if someone has something already for free, it would be stupid to use part of their income to pay for it again when that money could go to savings or tuition.

Essentially, this was my earlier point. In the final analysis, under the new ObamaCare rules which force insurers to cover people with pre-existing conditions at the same premium price as healthy people, young Americans have extremely little to gain and not much to lose by choosing NOT to pay the $2,000-$3,000 annual ObamaCare premium cost while they are healthy, versus paying the $400 IRS penalty and going without insurance until the point that they actually become sick or injured thus will actually have to pay major medical bills !!!

michele11
10-21-2013, 07:46 PM
I certainly couldn't afford $700/month when I was making $2-3k/month. even if I could, why would I throw away $ for something I already have for free? that's stupid.

I agree with you that 20 yr olds should take their health seriously and its ridiculous that so many don't have ins when they are spending lots of $ on clothes and nails and cars. but if someone has something already for free, it would be stupid to use part of their income to pay for it again when that money could go to savings or tuition.

Why would it cost you 700 a month? I paid 150 7 years ago( premiums go up annually) and I'm way older than you.

charlotte.
10-21-2013, 08:22 PM
Why would it cost you 700 a month? I paid 150 7 years ago( premiums go up annually) and I'm way older than you.

that's how much a plan that was as good as my parents cost. there's no way I would downgrade. I think its also more expensive on the coasts, I'm from la and the only time I considered getting my own plan was when I went to ny but after looking at options I realized it was more convenient to stay with my parents plan.

I don't have a deductible, almost no copays, everythings covered-dental, vision. its a pretty good plan and I would never give it up voluntarily.

Melonie
10-22-2013, 03:35 AM
I think its also more expensive on the coasts

Indeed NY, CA, and some other states have already enacted health insurance laws at the state level that required all health insurance policies sold in the state to include coverage for such treatments as substance abuse, mental health treatments etc. As such, people buying private health insurance coverage in these states have already been forced to pay very high monthly premiums, such that ObamaCare premiums charged in these states will actually be lower than the present cost of private health insurance.

There's a chart showing state by state current private health insurance premium costs versus projected ObamaCare premium costs in the Dollar Den 'Health Care Plans' thread. It jives with my own personal experience i.e. 'bargain basement' NY health insurance premiums for a healthy single person were in the $400 per month ballpark before I moved away 3 years ago.

Djoser
10-22-2013, 05:09 AM
I have never had health insurance. Not even after getting hit head on by a drunk driver on my motorcycle many years ago, and getting saddled with thousands in medical bills while the illegal alien who hit me didn't serve 5 minutes in jail or pay a dime. I still came out ahead I figure.

Now I suppose I will have to get it, thanks to the new law.

This thread is already seriously pushing the 'No Politics' rule. Be cool, everyone (pro and con ObamaCare)--or I might have to shut it down.

slowpoke
10-22-2013, 06:52 AM
^^^ that's your choice. However, if a young person without insurance does get cancer, they can stop by the Public Health Insurance Exchange and sign up for ObamaCare coverage on their way to their first Chemotherapy treatment and have that and all future treatments covered !!! THAT is the major difference between ObamaCare and previous private health insurance coverage ... which would have turned away a person diagnosed with cancer attempting to sign up for insurance coverage, or would have charged them an outrageously high monthly health insurance premium. Under ObamaCare, not only can't the person diagnosed with cancer be turned away, but they also can't be charged a higher monthly premium !!!


And that is the most outrageous part of the scheme. That is not insurance. Insurance is to insure against a risk of loss in the future, not to indemnify against things that have already happened.

Melonie
10-22-2013, 08:31 AM
Insurance is to insure against a risk of loss in the future, not to indemnify against things that have already happened.

True in the classic sense ... by that definition ObamaCare isn't actually health insurance since it never considers health care cost 'risk', only age and income level. Technically speaking, it is medical cost redistribution for health care 'consumers' combined with medical cost capping for health care 'providers' .



This thread is already seriously pushing the 'No Politics' rule.

I'm trying my best to avoid all 'value judgements', and simply answer questions / state facts.



Which is why they used to have CATASTROPHIC Insurance Plans. To cover young and healthy people for major , unexpected medical expenses. I don't think those policies will even be available under Obamacare.

Cancellation notices are already being sent out to people having catastrophic only or other limited coverage health insurance which does not 'qualify' under ObamaCare. See

The reason for this is that the insurance companies figure that, since people who chose to keep their low cost limited coverage health insurance would also now be required to pay the new IRS tax penalty, the 'net' cost no longer offers much of a savings over buying a 'qualifying' health insurance plan and thus avoiding the new IRS tax penalty.



If not enough people sign up, it will go under.

Again, from the early reports available from mainstream news media, it would appear that the majority of Americans who are signing up for ObamaCare are those that have pre-existing conditions ( thus ObamaCare's fixed prices for premiums regardless of actual health offers a huge dollar savings ), are those that can qualify for Expanded Medicaid ( thus providing 'free' medical care, in the short term at least ), and are those with low incomes ( thus ObamaCare's taxpayer subsidized premiums offer a large dollar savings ). If this trend remains in place, the insurance companies and federal IRS penalty payers underwriting ObamaCare coverage, and the state taxpayers underwriting Expanded Medicaid coverage, will be facing hundreds of billions of dollars worth of 'shortfall' between the amount of ObamaCare monthly premiums being paid in versus the amount of ObamaCare / Expanded Medicaid 'insured' medical bills being paid out.

How that possible financial situation will be resolved has yet to be addressed. Mainstream media has reported that the financial 'balance' of ObamaCare is reliant on a large number of young and healthy Americans choosing to pay ( arguably overpriced ) ObamaCare monthly premiums in order to cross-subsidize medical treatment costs created by older Americans and especially Americans with expensive to treat pre-existing medical conditions that ( far ) exceed the amount of ObamaCare monthly premiums that they are being required to pay. If those young and healthy Americans don't sign up, the medical treatment costs incurred on behalf of older Americans and Americans with pre-existing conditions who did sign up aren't going to go away.

If past experiences by states needing to pay for higher costs of Medicaid coverage serves as an example, the 'shortfall' will have to be recovered via general tax increases i.e. higher state sales taxes, higher state income taxes, etc. It's way too early to make that sort of a speculation regarding ObamaCare, but it's a virtual certainty where Expanded Medicaid coverage is concerned. At least that will be the case once the federal Medicaid subsidy money ( coming from federal income taxes leveed on Americans living in every US state ) stops being paid to the states after 2022. In the meantime, federal taxpayers living in states like TX and ND ( which chose NOT to offer Expanded Medicaid coverage ) will wind up 'subsidizing' Expanded Medicaid recipients in states like NY and CA.

Melonie
10-22-2013, 01:22 PM
hmmm, this latest tidbit could get interesting ... odd that it was reported in UK media but not US media ... from


(snip)A federal judge on Tuesday refused to dismiss a case that could fatally cripple the Obamacare health insurance law.

The Affordable Care Act forbids the federal government from enforcing the law in any state that opted out of setting up its own health care exchange, according to a group of small businesses whose lawsuit got a key hearing Monday in federal court.

The Obama administration, according to their lawsuit, has ignored that language in the law, enforcing all of its provisions even in states where the federal government is operating the insurance marketplaces on the error-plagued Healthcare.gov website.

Thirty-six states chose not to set up their exchanges, a move that effectively froze Washington, D.C. out of the authority to pay subsidies and other pot-sweeteners to convince citizens in those states to buy medical insurance.

But the IRS overstepped its authority by paying subsidies in those states anyway, say the businesses and their lawyers.

The subsidies serve as a trigger that determines who has to comply with the now-famous individual and employer mandates. So, the lawsuit claims, the Obama administration illegally enforced the Affordable Care Act – suddenly making millions of taxpayers and small employers subject to paying fines if they don't play ball.

The Affordable Care Act authorizes subsidies only for policies purchased 'through an Exchange established by the State.'

A different section of the law empowers the federal government to set up its own exchanges for each state that chose not establish one.

But government lawyers have argued that 'Congress made clear that an exchange established by the federal government stands in the shoes of the exchange that a state chooses not to establish.'

The Treasury Department, they contend, 'has reasonably interpreted the Act to provide for eligibility for the premium tax credits for individuals in every state, regardless of which entity operates the exchange.'

But that amounts to the federal government ignoring the letter of the law, lawyer Sam Kazman says.

And 'without those subsidies, the employer mandate isn't triggered,' he told MailOnline."

And that could make the entire Obamacare system unsustainable."

'The IRS cannot rewrite the law that Congress passed,' said Tom Miller, resident fellow at another think, the tank American Enterprise Institute.

'Its regulation expressly flouts the statutory text of the Affordable Care Act, the intent of Congress and the reasoned choices of [36] states.'

'The fiscal impact' of denying the Obamacare system millions of dollars in lost fines, 'while sizable, wouldn't be large enough to bring down the house,' Kazman added. The poltical one, however, is.'

'You'd have 36 "refusenik" states exempting their employers and many of their citizens from the employer mandate and portions of the individual mandate,' he explained.

'You'd have companies in participating states considering whether to move their operations' to states where they don't have to obey the Affordable Care Act. 'And you might even have some of those states seeking to undo their choice to participate.'(snip)


this could get messy in so many ways ...

- it's possible that ObamaCare might not be implemented at all in the 36 states that chose not to create / operate their own Public Health Exchanges

- It's possible that if ObamaCare IS implemented via federal exchanges in those 36 states, that people signing up for ObamaCare coverage will not be eligible to receive federal taxpayer funded subsidies that reduce their monthly premiums ( regardless of their income level )

- It's possible that businesses in those 36 states will NOT be required to provide 'qualified' employee health care coverage AND will not be forced to pay a penalty ( while businesses in the 14 states that did choose to set up their own Public Health Exchanges WILL have to either provide 'qualifying' insurance or pay the penalty )

- It's possible that the Americans residing in those 36 states will NOT be required to pay the new IRS tax penalty if they don't buy 'qualifying' insurance ( because lack of taxpayer subsidies renders ObamaCare insurance premiums 'unaffordable' ), while Americans residing in the other 14 states WILL have to pay the new IRS tax penalty.

- It's possible that the entire ObamaCare law could wind up back in front of the US Supreme Court or the US Congress, because so many original provisions of the law have been rendered untenable ( for example, the Supreme Court itself already ruled that states could NOT be forced to create their own Public Health Exchanges as was integral to the original law ).


All politics aside, this new development essentially means that everybody should probably remain 'on hold' regarding ObamaCare sign-ups and making 'buy insurance' vs 'pay the penalty' decisions until somebody actually figures out the real 'rules of the game' are going to be.

lifetravelergirl
10-23-2013, 02:37 PM
to be fair, that is what obama tried to do....but instead we got this weird lopsided bill that nobody seems to like :(.

the bill did expand medicare but about half of the states opted out of that. check to see if your state is one that didn't opt out and see if you qualify.

you can also ask your club if they provide any assistance. in my city one club has employee dancers so provides health care but I've heard that other independent contractor clubs are also offering a plan.

All of the presidents since Robert F. Kennedy are just puppets installed by the folks who own the Federal Reserve private bank. I added a link in my signature that is really informative on the subject. Our two party political system is (like football) just a way to distract us from what really matters which is that our government and our country is owned by foreign interests, in other words the Federal Reserve private bank. Our political system is only there to distract us from the real powers, it is entirely ineffectual and the only laws that pass are laws that benefit the investors that bought our government.

Melonie
10-24-2013, 11:42 AM
another 'clarification' just released regarding the ObamaCare IRS penalty for failure to purchase 'qualifying' health insurance ... from


(snip)"The Joint Tax Committee prepared a summary of Obamacare that includes this discussion of the mandate:


The penalty applies to any period the individual does not maintain minimum essential coverage and is determined monthly. The penalty is assessed through the Code and accounted for as an additional amount of Federal tax owed. However, it is not subject to the enforcement provisions of subtitle F of the Code. The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty. Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner.


As I understand it, the only way the IRS can possibly collect the penalty is by withholding your tax refund. No problem: if you arrange your taxes so that you don’t overpay, the penalty can never be collected from you.

Which is to say that there is no penalty for failing to comply with the Obamacare “mandate.” Many commentators have pointed this out, including us. Oddly, however, some observers who should know better continue to tell young people they should pay the penalty and forgo expensive insurance. No: young people, if they want to follow their self-interest, should forgo expensive insurance and NOT pay the penalty, because it can never be collected from them."(snip)


Thus for 'non-employee' independent contractor dancers and camgirls, by carefully managing your estimated tax payments to assure that you'll wind up having to pay in a small additional amount along with your annual tax return ( thus no refund ), it's 100% legal for you to NOT buy ObamaCare health insurance and also NOT actually pay the new IRS penalty.

simone87
10-24-2013, 11:45 AM
^ what about all the tax credits you get if you have a kid? or if you earn below a certain amount?

Melonie
10-24-2013, 11:49 AM
^^^ you or your accountant would have to work through the particulars, to size the quarterly estimated tax payments with those tax credits factored in such that you will still have to pay in a small amount with your annual tax return filing. It can't be more than 10% of your total tax bill, though, without risking 'under-withholding' penalties. However, paying an accountant would still be less expensive than paying the new IRS penalty ( and the accountant's fee is tax deductible to boot ) !!!

eagle2
10-24-2013, 06:39 PM
^^^ that's your choice. However, if a young person without insurance does get cancer, they can stop by the Public Health Insurance Exchange and sign up for ObamaCare coverage on their way to their first Chemotherapy treatment and have that and all future treatments covered !!! THAT is the major difference between ObamaCare and previous private health insurance coverage ... which would have turned away a person diagnosed with cancer attempting to sign up for insurance coverage, or would have charged them an outrageously high monthly health insurance premium. Under ObamaCare, not only can't the person diagnosed with cancer be turned away, but they also can't be charged a higher monthly premium !!!


It's not so simple. You can only sign up for insurance during a certain time period, and I don't think it goes into effect immediately. If you choose to go without health insurance, and become seriously ill and need expensive treatment, you could end up having to pay full cost for the treatment yourself.