View Full Version : intimidated by racism
Melonie
11-07-2013, 11:31 AM
Whether it be a white girl turned down at a black club or a black girl turned down at a white club. Its still racism. So dont tell me not to start the racism shit, it is what it is. Have u ever been in a similar situation?
Does that mean that an upscale urban club turning down tattooed dancers is guilty of 'technicolor' racism ?
I remain unconvinced that clubowners can't have legitimate business reasons for making the hiring decisions they feel are in the best interest of their club's customer base / bottom line. And while there are undoubtedly some clubowners who do in fact make such hiring decisions based on actual personal racist beliefs, labelling every single clubowner / manager who doesn't hire a particular dancer as a 'racist' is IMHO 'over the top'.
And in regard to your request for personal anecdotes, I have been turned down by literally dozens of clubs because the clubowner felt that my huge boobs wound not appeal to that particular club's customer base. I have also been hired and worked in dozens of other clubs where my huge boobs didn't 'sell' very well to that particular club's customer base. In terms of 'physical characteristics' mismatch, this is the same situation.
Kellydancer
11-07-2013, 11:31 AM
All of this circles back to a 'poorly received' point that I attempted to make early on in this thread.
The fact that a given club may decide not to hire a given dancer, based on the clubowner's 'impression' of what sort of dancer physical attributes will 'sell' the best to the club's particular customer base, happens all the time. This does not automatically translate into a case of 'discrimination' ! If a clubowner refuses to hire too many 'older' dancers, does that make the club guilty of 'age discrimination' ? If an upscale urban club with a primarily black customer base refuses to hire too many 'light skinned' dancers, does that make the club guilty of 'racial discrimination' ? If a club refuses to hire too many 'mexican' dancers, does that make the club guilty of 'discrimination' on the basis of 'national origin' ?
Obviously, official 'discrimination' on the basis of race, creed, color, religion, national origin etc. is illegal ... as are hiring quotas by employers. However, where independent contractor dancers are concerned, a clubowner deciding to engage the services of a particular independent contractor versus a different independent contractor leaves a huge amount of officlal leeway, given that a dancer's physical attributes are a significant part of her 'qualifications'.
This reminds me of something that happened at a club I worked at. I wasn't there at the time but my roommate was and this woman comes in missing an arm and applies to dance. The club refused to hire her and she threatened to sue because of discrimination. However is it discrimination because the club knew an one armed dancer wouldn't work since most dancers did pole work? Is there really a market for one armed strippers?
strippername
11-07-2013, 12:04 PM
Does that mean that an upscale urban club turning down tattooed dancers is guilty of 'technicolor' racism ?
I remain unconvinced that clubowners can't have legitimate business reasons for making the hiring decisions they feel are in the best interest of their club's customer base / bottom line. And while there are undoubtedly some clubowners who do in fact make such hiring decisions based on actual personal racist beliefs, labelling every single clubowner / manager who doesn't hire a particular dancer as a 'racist' is IMHO 'over the top'.
And in regard to your request for personal anecdotes, I have been turned down by literally dozens of clubs because the clubowner felt that my huge boobs wound not appeal to that particular club's customer base. I have also been hired and worked in dozens of other clubs where my huge boobs didn't 'sell' very well to that particular club's customer base. In terms of 'physical characteristics' mismatch, this is the same situation.
Exactly.
strippername
11-07-2013, 12:12 PM
Whether it be a white girl turned down at a black club or a black girl turned down at a white club. Its still racism. So dont tell me not to start the racism shit, it is what it is. Have u ever been in a similar situation?
I haven't been in a similar situation because I know were my place is. I would NEVER even think about going to a black club. If you can say black club, hispanic club and get pissed off about white club you might not be thinking things through too much. Racism goes out the window when it comes to these things. I don't jump and scream racism whenever anyone has a preference that isn't me. Maybe I will come back through karmic reincarnation and be a black girl so I can suffer too.
Tarasaurusrex
11-07-2013, 12:14 PM
I remain unconvinced that clubowners can't have legitimate business reasons for making the hiring decisions they feel are in the best interest of their club's customer base / bottom line. And while there are undoubtedly some clubowners who do in fact make such hiring decisions based on actual personal racist beliefs, labelling every single clubowner / manager who doesn't hire a particular dancer as a 'racist' is IMHO 'over the top'.
As I am sure you well know there is just as much seemingly nonsensical hiring decisions made in the "vanilla workforce". Although rarely are complaints filed nor do they have much merit if they are, because of a perceived discriminatory hiring process - something that is extremely hard to prove unless someone in charge of hiring said something outright to an applicant and the person was voice-recording them. Even when prejudice blatantly exists (I once was told I was hired at a job over a more qualified applicant because I 'won in the looks department') - but the boss hired who he felt the patients would best respond to. At the same time I have been turned down over applicant's who lacked experience and were still working on their credentials. Why? Good luck getting an sensible, honest explanation.
At the end of the day the person in the position of power "the boss, the manager, the practice owner, whomever is in charge" was placed in a position of power by his determination/work/accumulation of assets/personal connections or peers, and therefore is entrusted to make the best judgement call for whatever business is being operated. The day someone is forced to operate a business and not have control over their hiring process is the day when people won't own businesses, governing entities will. Despite the few bad apples that operate with an unprofessional and/or discriminatory attitude, it is a small price to pay for the freedom to current and future entrepreneurs, CEO's, small business owners, Charge Nurses', Chief's of Staff, Law Firm Partners, etc. to operate their work space and/or business the way they want to and the way they feel is best/most lucrative for current and future employees, purveyors, patients, customers, clients.....you get the picture.
The good news is as long as that freedom is allowed, there will be someone out there who is looking for your unique combination of qualities and talents, it is just a matter of finding them.
Aurora_Sunset
11-07-2013, 01:58 PM
Don't start the racism shit. There are black clubs that wouldn't even think of hiring a white dancer unless she had major black attributes. It is what it is. Keep trying, OP. You don't need that club.
I think this is a good discussion, so I don't want to shut it down, but keep it respectful. The OP is experiencing the negative effects of being black in a club that obviously only hires white dancers. I think "racism" is a perfectly accurate term for that. Regardless of the arguments for or against a clubowner's rights or reasons for operating this way, the experience and frustrations are still the same for the OP and she wanted to discuss them. It's no one's place to tell her "not to start that stuff" when "that stuff" is what she's going through and wants advice on.
Starling
11-07-2013, 03:32 PM
I'm sorry to read this. Skin lightening will destroy her skin over time. My parents are from a country where this is something quite a few people do. One, it never looks natural once they get lighter, two- it destroys the skin.
A relative of mine coats herself in that from head to toe. She went to get a pedicure, and her skin was so damaged and weak that she bled from the pumice stone being rubbed on her feet.
Please advise your friend that it's not worth destroying herself permanently to work at a strip club.
Thanks, I had my doubts about that stuff. I will talk to her.
misssincere
11-07-2013, 04:40 PM
I think this is a good discussion, so I don't want to shut it down, but keep it respectful. The OP is experiencing the negative effects of being black in a club that obviously only hires white dancers. I think "racism" is a perfectly accurate term for that. Regardless of the arguments for or against a clubowner's rights or reasons for operating this way, the experience and frustrations are still the same for the OP and she wanted to discuss them. It's no one's place to tell her "not to start that stuff" when "that stuff" is what she's going through and wants advice on.
Thankyou.
misssincere
11-07-2013, 05:12 PM
I haven't been in a similar situation because I know were my place is. I would NEVER even think about going to a black club. If you can say black club, hispanic club and get pissed off about white club you might not be thinking things through too much. Racism goes out the window when it comes to these things. I don't jump and scream racism whenever anyone has a preference that isn't me. Maybe I will come back through karmic reincarnation and be a black girl so I can suffer too.
Lol goodluck staying in "your place"dear.
misssincere
11-07-2013, 05:20 PM
I didn't start the thread for a debate btw. Just expressing my feelings and frustration.
tempest666
11-07-2013, 05:58 PM
This reminds me of something that happened at a club I worked at. I wasn't there at the time but my roommate was and this woman comes in missing an arm and applies to dance. The club refused to hire her and she threatened to sue because of discrimination. However is it discrimination because the club knew an one armed dancer wouldn't work since most dancers did pole work? Is there really a market for one armed strippers?
You'd be shocked at what there is a market for. There's a one armed stripper here in Reading, PA. She is hot as hell.
PleasureVictim
11-07-2013, 07:22 PM
I didn't start the thread for a debate btw. Just expressing my feelings and frustration.
Welcome to stripperweb. You'll be told about your own personal experiences at times by people who haven't dealt with what you've dealt with. Or there's one person they know that it doesn't happen to, so if it happens to you- something is wrong with you....so on and so forth.
I've learned being on here all this time, take the good advice that applies and disregard the rest.
*Pivots on heels while doing a hair flip out this thread*
Kellydancer
11-07-2013, 09:55 PM
You'd be shocked at what there is a market for. There's a one armed stripper here in Reading, PA. She is hot as hell.
Yeah after I heard about that one armed stripper who got rejected, someone told me about a one legged stripper in a wheelchair who was hot. I suppose there is a market for anything.
Kellydancer
11-07-2013, 10:00 PM
I haven't been in a similar situation because I know were my place is. I would NEVER even think about going to a black club. If you can say black club, hispanic club and get pissed off about white club you might not be thinking things through too much. Racism goes out the window when it comes to these things. I don't jump and scream racism whenever anyone has a preference that isn't me. Maybe I will come back through karmic reincarnation and be a black girl so I can suffer too.
There were several black clubs within a half hour from me and not once did I ever consider going to these. I knew what group was attracted to me and it generally wasn't black men. The black men that tended to come into the clubs wanted girls with big butts and huge hips and I had neither. In fact my hips were so tiny I often tried to look larger that way. Older professional black men liked me but it was because my figure was not stereotypical black. Likewise being a brunette with an athletic body eliminated me from the typical blonde clubs. I knew my clientele and who liked me and who didn't.
Jasmine.Doll
11-07-2013, 10:31 PM
There were several black clubs within a half hour from me and not once did I ever consider going to these. I knew what group was attracted to me and it generally wasn't black men. The black men that tended to come into the clubs wanted girls with big butts and huge hips and I had neither. In fact my hips were so tiny I often tried to look larger that way. Older professional black men liked me but it was because my figure was not stereotypical black. Likewise being a brunette with an athletic body eliminated me from the typical blonde clubs. I knew my clientele and who liked me and who didn't.
I can totally see where you are coming from. But, I like to be the girl at the club who looks wildly out of place. It gets me noticed... I've danced in a bunch of black clubs. Several of my stripper travel friends, like the one I mentioned earlier are black, so I have ended up at a lot of black clubs. (On a side note, while my black friends have had trouble getting into predominantly white clubs, I have never had trouble getting into a black club. Not saying this is how it is for everyone, of course... Just my experience.) Anyway, I LOVE being the only not black girl at the black club!! Being an anomaly can be very profitable. Yeah, some might laugh at my scrawny little boy frame and tiny booty. But most guys like to try out a new type of girl at the strip club. There are so many delicious flavors of ladies!! Why limit yourself to just one?
Jasmine.Doll
11-07-2013, 10:40 PM
I'm sorry to read this. Skin lightening will destroy her skin over time. My parents are from a country where this is something quite a few people do. One, it never looks natural once they get lighter, two- it destroys the skin.
A relative of mine coats herself in that from head to toe. She went to get a pedicure, and her skin was so damaged and weak that she bled from the pumice stone being rubbed on her feet.
Please advise your friend that it's not worth destroying herself permanently to work at a strip club.
And yeah, I agree with this. Don't go all Micheal Jackson on us, OP! You are gorgeous, just as you are!!!
ScarletKitten
11-07-2013, 10:47 PM
Pleasure victim the club has two sections. basically the urban (black side) is seperate. The other side only has 2 black dancers.
This right here is the problem. This is the year 2013, and racial segregation is STILL going on?! I am so furious right now. Please, girl, for your OWN self respect, leave that club and find a mixed or urban club where you will be worshiped and paid what you are worth!
I've worked at a mixed club, and let me tell you, some of the black dancers there were the top earners who grabbed all the attention of the custys- I've seen white guys only tip the best-looking girls who could really dance and entertain, and they were black. But really, how attractive you are has nothing to do with it at these all-white, hillbilly-run shit clubs. FUCK THEM. This racism shit has to stop.
Black women of the world- STAND UP and demand the worship you all deserve!!!
Jasmine.Doll
11-07-2013, 10:55 PM
*Pivots on heels while doing a hair flip out this thread*
Mmmmm... You know I LOVE to watch you walk away! Sway those hips, girl!
Kellydancer
11-07-2013, 11:27 PM
I can totally see where you are coming from. But, I like to be the girl at the club who looks wildly out of place. It gets me noticed... I've danced in a bunch of black clubs. Several of my stripper travel friends, like the one I mentioned earlier are black, so I have ended up at a lot of black clubs. (On a side note, while my black friends have had trouble getting into predominantly white clubs, I have never had trouble getting into a black club. Not saying this is how it is for everyone, of course... Just my experience.) Anyway, I LOVE being the only not black girl at the black club!! Being an anomaly can be very profitable. Yeah, some might laugh at my scrawny little boy frame and tiny booty. But most guys like to try out a new type of girl at the strip club. There are so many delicious flavors of ladies!! Why limit yourself to just one?
In some clubs being the odd one does work. I have been the only brunette or the tallest one or something like that. However many clubs want all the dancers to look the same. I wouldn't want to work in a club like that but some don't mind. Personally I always liked variety because it is easier to make money when you have a different look.
strippername
11-08-2013, 01:18 AM
Lol goodluck staying in "your place"dear.
Good luck finding one.
strippername
11-08-2013, 01:23 AM
There were several black clubs within a half hour from me and not once did I ever consider going to these. I knew what group was attracted to me and it generally wasn't black men. The black men that tended to come into the clubs wanted girls with big butts and huge hips and I had neither. In fact my hips were so tiny I often tried to look larger that way. Older professional black men liked me but it was because my figure was not stereotypical black. Likewise being a brunette with an athletic body eliminated me from the typical blonde clubs. I knew my clientele and who liked me and who didn't.
Me too. Do you think people who weren't attracted to you were racist? "I am not going to try to work at that black club. They are racist" said nobody ever. They just don't. Is it racist for the club to not play hip-hop or rap? No. Have a whiter look and you can be the token just like the white girl with the blacker look. It isn't Wal-Mart.
xStitchesx
11-08-2013, 02:17 AM
Vegas is a funny place. I had a hard time getting hired there. I was being told to "tone up" everywhere I went. I talked to a white stripper with the same body as mine and she works at several of the clubs I went to. Her advice was that my weight was fine and to go audition during the day shift to get hired. She told me that the clubs won't hire black dancers right away for prime time and to work day shift and ask to stay late or re-audition for night shift.
Keep trying and you'll find the right spot!
misssincere
11-08-2013, 02:37 AM
Good luck finding one.
Somebody with confidence doesnt go where shes expected. Black men love me, ive been told im a "white mans black girl". Its not finding your place. Its going wherever you get in and make money. So goodluck. Again.
misssincere
11-08-2013, 02:44 AM
My goal is to make money. That ONE manager pissed me off. Ive been hired at every other club I've auditioned at (white,black,hispanic) so i vented. This wont stop me. Thanks for the ladies who listened and understand. Ill ignore those who dont and keep making money :-*
Melonie
11-08-2013, 04:46 AM
Do you think people who weren't attracted to you were racist? "I am not going to try to work at that black club. They are racist" said nobody ever. They just don't
Are you saying that black club customers who choose not to spend much money on white dancers aren't racist, while white club customers who choose not to spend much money on black dancers ARE racist ? Are you implying that black club managers who choose not to hire more white dancers aren't racist, while white club managers who choose not to hire more black dancers ARE racist ?
Pleasure victim the club has two sections. basically the urban (black side) is seperate. The other side only has 2 black dancers.
This right here is the problem. This is the year 2013, and racial segregation is STILL going on?!
OK I'll ask the $64,000 question ... what would happen if the clubowner simply knocked down the wall and operated the total square footage as one big club ?
tempest666
11-08-2013, 04:51 AM
My old manager in Abq wasn't racist.....she hated EVERYBODY!
strippername
11-08-2013, 06:27 AM
Are you saying that black club customers who choose not to spend much money on white dancers aren't racist, while white club customers who choose not to spend much money on black dancers ARE racist ? Are you implying that black club managers who choose not to hire more white dancers aren't racist, while white club managers who choose not to hire more black dancers ARE racist ?
That is what everyone in this thread is saying. ;)
Nina_
11-08-2013, 08:46 AM
That is what everyone in this thread is saying. ;)
No it is not, don't put words in everyone in this thread's mouth. You clearly don't have a grasp on the issue since you are so easily miscontruing the point of the majority of people posting here.
Tarasaurusrex
11-08-2013, 10:50 AM
My old manager in Abq wasn't racist.....she hated EVERYBODY!
Since about half of the people in my family fall into this category we jokingly refer to those family members as "equal opportunity offenders". They pretty much don't like anyone, and they equally dislike everyone they don't like LOL. That's horrible (but a bit funny, because they are funny characters) I know, I think my Stepdad alluded to the phrase while watching South Park and justifying his appreciation of the show by saying, well they offend everyone equally, so they aren't rude, they treat everyone equally like shit.....haha. Then it just sorta took off from there.....my long-term SO, who is Venezuelan is even in on it, he now identifies as an equal opportunity offender. I'm like really, is there enough testosterone in circulation? Because I can smell a pissing contest a mile away LOL.
Sorry strippername, but you took a small and valid complaint and totally gave it a life of it's own. No one even discussed the politics of racism in strip clubs as a generality, the OP described a singular experience she had.....how do you draw all those conclusions from that one statement?
strippername
11-08-2013, 11:16 AM
No it is not, don't put words in everyone in this thread's mouth. You clearly don't have a grasp on the issue since you are so easily miscontruing the point of the majority of people posting here.
I haven't put a single word in anyone's mouth. I am just saying what other people won't. It is not racist to not hire a black person. It is not racist to not hire a white person. It is a business that is based on looks and they can do whatever they THINK is best for it. When you are all in managements position you can hire everyone who walks through the door and see how your club works.
OP says she looks young and doesn't wear a lot of makeup. That might not be the look the club is going after. I do think black girls can get away with less makeup than a white girl. White girls look sloppy without it.
Tarasaurusrex
11-08-2013, 11:33 AM
I haven't put a single word in anyone's mouth. I am just saying what other people won't.
Sorry, but you just said one thing then contradicted it in the same breath.....that was amazing, not in a good way, but like, really? So you don't put words in their mouth, you just speak for them instead and assume it is what they were thinking and at the same time assume that it is okay with everyone for you to be their personal verbal representative regarding their supppsed thoughts?
strippername
11-08-2013, 11:43 AM
Other people are the people who would be too scared to get attacked for not thinking the same way you do. They haven't posted on this thread. There might not even be any on this forum.
It isn't racism.
Sorry, but you just said one thing then contradicted it in the same breath.....that was amazing, not in a good way, but like, really? So you don't put words in their mouth, you just speak for them instead and assume it is what they were thinking and at the same time assume that it is okay with everyone for you to be their personal verbal representative regarding their supppsed thoughts?
Kellydancer
11-08-2013, 12:34 PM
Me too. Do you think people who weren't attracted to you were racist? "I am not going to try to work at that black club. They are racist" said nobody ever. They just don't. Is it racist for the club to not play hip-hop or rap? No. Have a whiter look and you can be the token just like the white girl with the blacker look. It isn't Wal-Mart.
Nope I didn't think they were racist and I think many people use the race card way too much. I know several women who are only attracted to men the same race. When they did online dating (or dating in general)they were called racists. I don't consider it racist to like a certain type of person. I had guys who were my age and income level who didn't like me either and men who weren't and I doubt people would call them racists for having preferences.
I've worked at a few clubs where they refused to play hip hop and the reason was they felt it was attract the thugs (of all races). I never cared for most of hip hop anyway but the question is would they? possibly so they just avoided it.
strippername
11-08-2013, 12:38 PM
I already knew your answer, Kellydancer. :)
Excuse me I am getting pulled of by the PC police....
Melonie
11-08-2013, 12:43 PM
^^^ thus my first post in this thread beginning with ' I hesitate to post at all'. However I thought that an 'alternate' interpretation was worth posting, even if a majority of other SW posters might not agree with that 'alternate' interpretation.
It isn't racism.
Since this thread seems to be getting close to the point of closure, let me 'cut to the chase' ...
Indeed this isn't about racism - it's about MONEY. Even though white dancers often have difficulty being hired in urban 'black' clubs, outside of some isolated examples like Atlanta, not being allowed to work in a 'black' club usually doesn't cost the white dancer money because they will have other club options available that will probably pay as well as, if not better than, the 'black' club which refused to hire them. So even though real acts of racism must, by definition, be based strictly on skin color ... thus by definition cannot have a financial component ... for a fact nobody in this thread is going to see a white dancer being refused by a 'black' club as the 'victim' of racism.
Different story of course for a black dancer being refused by a 'white' club, who based on 'majority opinion' in this thread is clearly seen as the 'victim' of racism. But the unspoken truth here is that, outside of some isolated examples like Atlanta, not being allowed to work in a 'white' club will usually deny a black dancer a PERCEIVED opportunity for higher earnings ( which may or not actually be the case, based on the actual spending decisions by the 'white' club's particular customer base ). It's about MONEY.
Kellydancer
11-08-2013, 12:47 PM
I already knew your answer, Kellydancer. :)
Excuse me I am getting pulled of by the PC police....
It's part of this whole "if you don't like me it's because of my race, etc". Way too many people use something that someone doesn't like as a way to say they dislike them because of their race or something else. For example when I did online dating I got people calling me names because of certain men I avoided (not just race but other reasons). There are black men I think are hot (many actors for example)but others I find repulsive. This is the case with every race/ethnicity. If I was to go into a strip club and pay a man for dances more than likely my preferences would either be a Latin or Hispanic man who is dark haired and dark skinned. This doesn't mean I hate men from other races it's preferences of what appeals to me.
strippername
11-08-2013, 12:51 PM
I knew what you were saying, Melonie. I also knew that you and Kellydancer were the only ones on the Stripperweb planet who understand.
I am not an eloquent board poster and write more like a rambling white girl.
Kellydancer
11-08-2013, 12:54 PM
^^^ thus my first post in this thread beginning with ' I hesitate to post at all'. However I thought that an 'alternate' interpretation was worth posting, even if a majority of other SW posters might not agree with that 'alternate' interpretation.
Since this thread seems to be getting close to the point of closure, let me 'cut to the chase' ...
Indeed this isn't about racism - it's about MONEY. Even though white dancers often have difficulty being hired in urban 'black' clubs, outside of some isolated examples like Atlanta, not being allowed to work in a 'black' club usually doesn't cost the white dancer money because they will have other club options available that will probably pay as well as, if not better than, the 'black' club which refused to hire them. So even though real acts of racism must, by definition, be based strictly on skin color ... thus by definition cannot have a financial component ... for a fact nobody in this thread is going to see a white dancer being refused by a 'black' club as the 'victim' of racism.
Different story of course for a black dancer being refused by a 'white' club, who based on 'majority opinion' in this thread is clearly seen as the 'victim' of racism. But the unspoken truth here is that, outside of some isolated examples like Atlanta, not being allowed to work in a 'white' club will usually deny a black dancer a PERCEIVED opportunity for higher earnings ( which may or not actually be the case, based on the actual spending decisions by the 'white' club's particular customer base ). It's about MONEY.
Exactly. A club usually knows what works and what doesn't. It reminds me years ago when I was branded a racist because I didn't hire a black dancer. The reason I didn't hire her was because she was unattractive. She had a crew cut, she was missing teeth and and she was fat. My clientele would never book her for a party unless it was a joke. When I told her she needed to grow her hair, get her teeth fixed and lose weight she called me a racist. As it turns out I had a beautiful black girl who made a lot of money because she was beautiful.
Melonie
11-08-2013, 01:00 PM
^^^ actually, missing teeth appears to be an increasing 'selling point' for certain dancers these days ... sorry for the ThreadJack !
PS I find most 'white' guys fairly repulsive !
Nina_
11-08-2013, 01:01 PM
I am not an eloquent board poster and write more like a rambling white girl.
Saying things like that will make people not take you seriously.
Kellydancer
11-08-2013, 01:05 PM
^^^ actually, missing teeth appears to be an increasing 'selling point' for certain dancers these days ... sorry for the ThreadJack !
PS I find most 'white' guys fairly repulsive !
True. I was once asked to work at a sex industry event as a dancer and saw a dancer with no teeth. I asked why and was told she was an asset in shall we say another way. I didn't know they were providing "other" services and her missing teeth was something some liked.
Nina_
11-08-2013, 01:13 PM
I'm not sure if when people say "it's not racism," they are actually meaning that race isn't a factor here. If so, that is completely wrong because race was the main factor in the OP's experience. Other black girls on this thread, or girls who are friends with black girls, have had the same experience. So let's not pretend this isn't a racial issue, because it is. It's a burden that black women have to deal with - denying it won't make it go away. Black girls on this board have flat out been told, explicitly, that their race is what's deterring them from being hired. So how can we say it's not a racial issue?
Melonie is correct in saying that money is a factor, however the real issue is deeper than that. I have a basic understanding of supply and demand. If there are "too many black girls" at a club, and not enough demand for them, they won't make as much money. However, part of what is propelling the lesser demand of black girls vs girls of other races is society's collective perception that black is ugly, that white is pretty, etc. And that, my friends, is racism. If a girl is turned away from a club because she is black, that is discrimination in every sense of the word, and it's racial discrimination. Whether the manager who turns her away is an individual racist or not is a moot point - that manager is still actively participating in sociological racism whether (s)he wants to or not. Not being able to get hired somewhere because you are a certain is race stems from... drumroll... racism.
And I am not even one of the girls who has to deal with this... my race has never been an issue, I've always gotten hired at upscale white clubs, and I'm a multiracial individual. I'm Ukranian, British, and Northeast African among a few other things and although I'm considered "exotic" by industry standards, I'm also never perceived as black. A girl I used to be friends with is black and dark skinned and has a tough time being hired at even mid-tier clubs that have a more white clientele. This is a real issue that black girls face, it's a huge disadvantage, and I don't feel it's fair to sweep it under the rug or tell black girls to get over it.
strippername
11-08-2013, 01:13 PM
Saying things like that will make people not take you seriously.
I don't care. I was making fun of myself. That isn't allowed either.
Melonie
11-08-2013, 01:22 PM
If there are "too many black girls" at a club, and not enough demand for them, they won't make as much money. However, part of what is propelling the lesser demand of black girls vs girls of other races is society's collective perception that black is ugly, that white is pretty, etc. And that, my friends, is racism.
Nope, sorry, what that actually is ... is 'free market' economic choices on the part of club customers, who are after all the source of ALL dancer earnings. Granted that those 'free market' economic choices can be influenced by real world economic limitations i.e. club customers whose earnings levels are relatively low simply cannot afford to spend tons of money on 'luxury' items such as lap dances and VIP.
Not wanting to drift too far afield, but I will point out that recent court decisions holding that dancers are 'employees' will in fact 'help' in this regard, by 'redistributing' club customer spending more equally among all dancers via minimum wage pay and tip sharing. Also, holding dancers are 'employees' will also subject the club to increased scrutiny regarding the diversity of the club's employees.
Tarasaurusrex
11-08-2013, 01:22 PM
Saying things like that will make people not take you seriously.
Which may not be a bad thing.....
I certainly don't want anyone taking someone seriously that extrapolates conclusions in a wildly aggressive, non-logical manner, then attempts to explain that they are representing the thoughts of those too afraid to voice their opinion.....sorry but eloquent or not, some of the things that were said are just down-right careless.....and I know I shouldn't be so bothered by this, but I can not stand when people contradict themselves, lie in the same paragraph, and just in general are reckless in their writing; with a complete disregard for any sort of logical thought process to support their conflicting statements. You can say the craziest thing ever, even the most offensive thing ever, but please at least have some sort of reasoning for your statements and be able to explain the thought mechanisms that allowed you to arrive to such a conclusion.
Kellydancer
11-08-2013, 01:24 PM
I'm not sure if when people say "it's not racism," they are actually meaning that race isn't a factor here. If so, that is completely wrong because race was the main factor in the OP's experience. Other black girls on this thread, or girls who are friends with black girls, have had the same experience. So let's not pretend this isn't a racial issue, because it is. It's a burden that black women have to deal with - denying it won't make it go away. Black girls on this board have flat out been told, explicitly, that their race is what's deterring them from being hired. So how can we say it's not a racial issue?
Melonie is correct in saying that money is a factor, however the real issue is deeper than that. I have a basic understanding of supply and demand. If there are "too many black girls" at a club, and not enough demand for them, they won't make as much money. However, part of what is propelling the lesser demand of black girls vs girls of other races is society's collective perception that black is ugly, that white is pretty, etc. And that, my friends, is racism. If a girl is turned away from a club because she is black, that is discrimination in every sense of the word, and it's racial discrimination. Whether the manager who turns her away is an individual racist or not is a moot point - that manager is still actively participating in sociological racism whether (s)he wants to or not. Not being able to get hired somewhere because you are a certain is race stems from... drumroll... racism.
And I am not even one of the girls who has to deal with this... my race has never been an issue, I've always gotten hired at upscale white clubs, and I'm a multiracial individual. I'm Ukranian, British, and Northeast African among a few other things and although I'm considered "exotic" by industry standards, I'm also never perceived as black. A girl I used to be friends with is black and dark skinned and has a tough time being hired at even mid-tier clubs that have a more white clientele. This is a real issue that black girls face, it's a huge disadvantage, and I don't feel it's fair to sweep it under the rug or tell black girls to get over it.
Here's the thing, if the clientele at the club doesn't like black girls is it fair to hire her knowing she won't make money? At some clubs I knew I wouldn't make money because I didn't have the "right" look for the club and was happier no0t being hired than trying to make the money I wouldn't.
This is probably going to offend some but it is the truth. Many black women who want to dance simply don't have the body type to make as much money. This is true of white women too but many more white women who have the body type know they won't be as successful. I was more muscular and knew I wouldn't appeal to everyone man and not every club would hire me. For the most part the black women I danced with had fantastic bodies and beautiful faces. Is that racist to say? no, it's how the clubs think. True I have seen clubs reject a beautiful black woman in favor of a less attractive white woman but they knew the clientele would be more open to the white woman for many reasons.
The beautiful black girl I hired still had a harder time than the white women I hired. This was a problem even though I catered to the Chicago area which is more open about race.
Nina_
11-08-2013, 01:26 PM
Nope, sorry, what that actually is ... is 'free market' economic choices on the part of club customers, who are after all the source of ALL dancer earnings. Granted that those 'free market' economic choices can be influenced by real world economic limitations i.e. club customers whose earnings levels are relatively low simply cannot afford to spend tons of money on 'luxury' items such as lap dances and VIP.
Apparently my point went over your head. My point was about racism in this industry, not the economics of the industry. I thought that was pretty clear.
Melonie
11-08-2013, 01:33 PM
^^^ nope it's not clear in the least, since you are still attempting to assert that widespread racism ( specifically, only racism by white club owners against black dancers ) is endemic to the strip club industry thus should be taken as a 'given' ... without offering any serious proof that this is in fact the case.
Tarasaurusrex
11-08-2013, 01:38 PM
I
Melonie is correct in saying that money is a factor, however the real issue is deeper than that. I have a basic understanding of supply and demand. If there are "too many black girls" at a club, and not enough demand for them, they won't make as much money. However, part of what is propelling the lesser demand of black girls vs girls of other races is society's collective perception that black is ugly, that white is pretty, etc. And that, my friends, is racism. If a girl is turned away from a club because she is black, that is discrimination in every sense of the word, and it's racial discrimination. Whether the manager who turns her away is an individual racist or not is a moot point - that manager is still actively participating in sociological racism whether (s)he wants to or not. Not being able to get hired somewhere because you are a certain is race stems from... drumroll... racism.
Okay, there is a fault in your point though, the basic principles of supply and demand that you are referring to.....you are saying there is less demand for black dancers because society perceives black as ugly. I would beg to differ, men like black women, always have (even if only secretly, but hence the ruse of the strip club)....exotic ladies have always been liked and given the choice guys really like a variety; and they go to clubs to experience something different than what they have at home....
The real reason isn't due to black not being beautiful, it is due to the fact that demographically black Americans tend to be on a lower socioeconomic status than white Americans.....not always the case, but just stating facts....so the most lucrative purveyors of the club may be white, they may like black women, but some may still be a bit uncomfortable with the stigma of choosing a black girl over a white one......others won't. However since the overall income level of black men is less than white men when black men come to the strip club they aren't going to spend as much money (in the eyes of management), because they don't have as much to spend. They also may feel uncomfortable at a 'white club', so essentially when calculating the profitability of a dancer, it is actually based on the client demographics, not the attractiveness of the dancer in question. So it is racism more or less, but for different reasons than most people think.
Kellydancer
11-08-2013, 01:42 PM
With regard to black men I had a lot of professional black men as clients. They liked me because I didn't have a typical black girl body and because I was white. Yes many white men like black women but generally speaking they like hot black women.