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Tourdefranzia
01-04-2016, 01:56 PM
I don't have anything to add, except that this sounds like what it was like dancing in Los Angeles in the early 2000's. My heart goes out to the OP. :(

Missdoll
10-21-2016, 10:04 PM
Also sounds like what I am going through out here in Los Angeles.
I've been assaulted, sexually assaulted, had my face split open, laughed at, mocked, degraded, ripped off by managers and customers alike, called names you name it and I've only been out here a little over a year.

My lease is up in 60 days though... Thank GOD! Time to move asap.

Gia2608
10-22-2016, 09:15 AM
I know this is a really old thread but the Op's feelings and experience are still pretty relevant. I 100% feel her on the stuff she was dealing with outside of the club. I have wanted to chop off all my hair, have gone home in tears or gone in public looking a hot mess (like baggy sweats and messy hair bun) just so leering, creepy, disrespectful men would leave me the fuck alone. My personal space always gets invaded.

At one point in time I would get followed around in Wal-Mart regularly. I used to call my ex boyfriend and talk to him on speaker in an effort to get said slime balls away from me. He thought I was making it up until one time we had to go to Wal-Mart for something. We split up and low and behold as I was making my way back to where he was waiting in line, some douchebag began following me, walked right up behind me practically breathing down my neck and tried to rub his crotch against me. I thought my ex was going to get arrested.

Who THE FUCK does that? What gives men the right to think they can cat-call from construction sites? Why would some completely random dude come up to me when I am out with girlfriends minding my own business and having a private conversation to tell me "I'm not that hot anyway?". Seriously, I am talking to my GF's about my semester course work or something like this, not looking around making eye contact or causing a scene. Who the FUCK asked you to evaluate and share what you think I fucking look like. But, in case anyone cares I did look extremely hot.

There was a point in time I didn't want to go to the gym because I could feel guys staring at me and making lewd comments. A different ex used to go to the same gym and witnessed it himself and gave me a retort to use but, that is the point - why should I have to? Why do I have to be made to feel uncomfortable doing normal day-to-day things because the segment of society that is composed of piece of shit, uneducated men think it is their right to sexualize me.

I am smart, and friendly and pretty funny IRL but you can't see that like you can see my blonde hair or my huge boobs or tiny waist. I don't want to fuck you- I am not going to fuck you; hell I don't even want to speak to you. I just want to buy dog shampoo, grapes, highlighters and lawn fertilizer in one convenient trip and I think I should be able to brush my hair and wear what the fuck I want to without worrying about someone assaulting me with their eyes or space-raping me.

I understand why some lesbians go for the "butch" look, I really do. I don't mean that term as an insult at all- I mean I can understand how women that have no desire to have anything but casual interactions with men would try and lose their femininity on purpose by forgoing wearing make-up, cutting their hair off and wearing baggy clothing.

miss.a.p1600
10-22-2016, 09:41 AM
Girl I swear I wanted to literally tear this dudes dick and balls to shreds and shove them in his mouth when he catcalled while I'm walking with the kid. Fucking sick ass psycho loser.

Yeah if you go to Walmart, especially at night by yourself oh the horny men come out the woodworks. If you have to go, go to the ones with police actively patrolling.........just in case

KALIN
10-22-2016, 09:43 AM
Star lily, have you thought about getting a dog? My dog is sweet to me but highly aggressive towards strangers. When I go out, I keep him on a hands free leash and anytime creeps try to get near me, he lunges at them and they fuck off ��

Violethollywood
10-22-2016, 10:55 AM
i feel the OP so much. i hate it when guys cat call me . in fact im a complete bitch right back at them in public. i get hit on all the fucking time and i swear it just infuriates me bc god forbid men be gentleman in their approach to women . ... i was at a walgreens the other day and this fucking loser at the register was like you live around here whats your fine self doing later ? i smiled and said haha not hanging out with your lame ass that's what . i hate that shit . like you dont even bother to ask a womans name before hitting on her . women are just walking pussy to them.
Working in the sex industry has definitley shaped my opinions of men, while there are very good men out there i show no kindness to the pigs . FUCK THEM.

seashell
10-22-2016, 11:07 AM
I avoid Walmart altogether, and I usually only shop at higher end grocery stores. It's more expensive, but I've been followed around Walmart and regular grocery stores (inside and in the parking lot), and it is scary! I've developed so much anxiety about going to those places that I will only go if another person is with me.

Also, online dating has made me hate men to a degree I've never known before. Sooo many creeps, even guys who have decent jobs and appear perfectly normal on paper. I realized it wasn't just guys in the club or Walmart that are weird assholes, it's even the seemingly good guys! Ugh. But I guess people in general are a mixed bag.

whirlerz
10-22-2016, 12:14 PM
Yep^ this.
I try my best to ignore most people, unless they're blatantly trying to grab me or something, & yea it's not ez
If you go look @ Thru a Rapist's eyes, (Ladies Only) it says one of the top spots women get assaulted/abducted is grocery store parking lots

whirlerz
10-22-2016, 12:23 PM
OMG -

Read this NOW

https://mic.com/articles/155378/a-woman-in-london-was-run-over-by-a-moped-for-ignoring-a-man-s-catcall?utm_source=policymicTBLR&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social#.c3ADJqlaG

SuperJa
10-22-2016, 12:52 PM
OMG -

Read this NOW

https://mic.com/articles/155378/a-woman-in-london-was-run-over-by-a-moped-for-ignoring-a-man-s-catcall?utm_source=policymicTBLR&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social#.c3ADJqlaG

Ugh this is so gross.

Guys get pissy about being "friendzoned" or led on or whatever. It's because women are afraid if they straight up reject or ignore you, they're gonna get killed.

whirlerz
10-22-2016, 01:06 PM
Ugh this is so gross.

Guys get pissy about being "friendzoned" or led on or whatever. It's because women are afraid if they straight up reject or ignore you, they're gonna get killed.

Literally^!
This is but ONE example of many, I've seen..one case in CA I think, a pregant women walked in a coffee shop, a guy was walking out, held the door for her..got pissed she didn't say thanks so he threw hot coffee in her face???

Selina M
10-22-2016, 01:34 PM
If I could avoid strange men OTC for the rest of my life, I probably would. I got stories for days.

What irks me is that nothing is sacred. There is no safe zone. Dudes that are married still hit on you. Innocuous places are not safe either. I work at a dog rescue a couple nights a week & this older guy started coming on those shifts. He's ALWAYS talking to me about my dogs or my car or something. He pops up out of nowhere around corners. The other day he puts his hands on my shoulders *barf* Like just stop dude. You're 40 and married.

They also don't seem to respect SOs. It's creepy as fuck. That used to be the Get Out of Jail card; "I have a boyfriend" would make it stop. Nope.
I've had the Starbucks guy hit on me and when I said I was engaged he started scoffing & insulting it like "Where's your ring then" Like it made it less valid & ok for him to hit on me. I'm about to buy a 'beater' one to wear on the daily for dudes like him.

There's a dancer who beelines for me at every event. I thought it would stop when SO & I were officially together. 2.5 years later, no.
He used to *tell* me I was dancing with him tonight. Then he gave up on telling me, & decided to *ask* my SO. Like what? He gets asked but I get told? And if you ask him and he says yes, I have to now? SO was baffled and said "Uh dude it's up to her". Guy looked crestfallen his evil plot didn't work :rotfl:
This kid would also always see that we were leaving, no matter how sneakily we did it, and again run over to hug me (yeeeeesh) and in the process have his hands WAY lower on my back than socially acceptable. He had some balls to do that with SO standing right there. But I had to be nice because we have reputations to uphold in that community. Ugh. If SO ever permanently hangs up his shoes, that kid is the first to get a "Listen here buddy..." dose of reality.

I agree about being afraid you'll end up in a dumpster. I am naturally an asshole but I try to be careful of WHEN I mouth off to these assholes. Only in public places with people around.

@Gia, it doesn't matter what you wear. I get hit on more when wearing baggy sweaters & jeans, sneakers, hats, etc. You're more 'approachable' then apparently. If I'm dressed nice or even semi-'skanky' they leave me alone except to open doors or be extra polite. It's weird.

Violethollywood
10-22-2016, 01:45 PM
Ugh this is so gross.

Guys get pissy about being "friendzoned" or led on or whatever. It's because women are afraid if they straight up reject or ignore you, they're gonna get killed.


I wish a mf would try some shit, man I'd gauged his fucking eyes out with my keys so fucking fast. I've been waiting for a punk to try shit. SMDH.

last year, I got off work at my day job and went to walmart and it's aroun 10:30 at night when this shit happened: im walking to my car, and this fucking young guy comes running across the parking lot and like "what's your name? hey what's your name? " dude straight ran over 3 aisles trying to hollar at me, scared the shit out of me i kept walking and he kept coming so I stopped and told him to back the fuck up before I cut his ass right here in the parking lot. I am not the one to fuck with . GET THE FUCK ON. And he did too.
He was all like whoa --- pfft. whoa? whoa?!!! No if anyone should be shocked it should be me you punk ass bitch . smh

And see that's the thing with these fucking guys, they get all shocked and surprised by a woman standing her mother fucking ground as if that's not supposed to happen.

This dude had to be 5 years younger if not more. Tf are they learning this shit at? You don't come running up on a chick in a parking lot in the middle of the night you fucking weirdo.

slowpoke
10-22-2016, 03:01 PM
http://www.gunthorp.com/images/PosterGuessing.jpg

https://31.media.tumblr.com/375c390b54346799a115212c27eae5b1/tumblr_inline_nkrjjsi1DA1r5uedc.jpg

Ifyouseekamy
10-24-2016, 12:37 AM
Don't judge us men by what happens in a SC, the large majority don't go to them to begin with. Seems the problems you have are all about location and the environment you are working in. You seem to be attracting a certain type of customer if this keeps happening to you. Maybe change the way you perform? And I would say Goddess is correct, time to travel. Also time to meet with men outside of the SC areas if you want to get a better impression.

This is a totally unsupportive comment that comes from a place of defensiveness rather than truth and grace. I would say you are an emotionally unsafe person if you don't understand that she needs validation and support. I'm not saying you are wrong, but it's the wrong thing to say. Instead, "I'm sorry you are being disrespected and I wish that didn't happen to you. You don't ever deserve to me disrespected. As a good guy, I hope you can have some positive experiences to counter that trauma."

It doesn't matter where women work and live. Quit blaming the victim and mansplaining. Her feelings and perceptions are valid.

Ifyouseekamy
10-24-2016, 12:43 AM
Right

LegoMoney
10-26-2016, 03:52 PM
"You seem to be attracting a certain type of customer if this keeps happening to you. Maybe change the way you perform?"

Because it's ALWAYS the fucking woman's fault. Men are never liable for their actions. Somehow OUR actions have CAUSED you to misbehave.

Get raped? She shouldn't have been dressed provocatively. She shouldn't have been drinking. She's shouldn't have went over his house late at night.

Hate cat-calling? Don't dress "seductively" in public. Wtf... I absolutely hate this shit. I am a black woman, but I am 100x more concerned about the state of women in this world than I am about about black people. Even in today's ridiculous racial climate.

I sincerely just don't understand why women are treated so poorly in this country, and even worse throughout the world. It's literally like you guys hate us.

Gia2608
10-26-2016, 07:47 PM
Right?? And what does this stem from.

There were MANY ancient societies where women were treated better than they are today. I have specific ideas about this; but I'll hold my uber-feminazi rants for another time.

The only thing I can muster is MOST men have more upper body strength than MANY women (thereby making them physically "stronger"). Wow. That's impressive. Can you make another person with your body and then feed that person with your body? No!! Do some men out-earn a minor majority of women- yes. but that is because MANY women take lower-paying jobs (teachers, waitresses, nurse instead or Dr. etc.). It does not make them smarter or better humans and does not give them the right to disparage us.

I know this may be falling on deaf ears as 2/3 of the men on this site actually respect women, even those who (GASP!) work in the sex industry and 2/3 of the women here are independent and self reliant... WTF is going on in our society?? Why is a man who brags about sexually assaulting females a serious candidate as "ruler of the free world" (as we Americans think it all revolves around us)??

gw
10-26-2016, 08:14 PM
I sincerely just don't understand why women are treated so poorly in this country, and even worse throughout the world. It's literally like you guys hate us.

I have a theory. Twenty years ago books on "how to pick up women" were actually about how to talk to and date women. Now they are filled with 20% techniques, and 80% "why women are evil."

Also, traditional relationships are breaking down, and at the same time, you see gorgeous girls everywhere (instagram, fb, yt, etc). AND at the same time, people (mostly guys) have absolutely horrible social skills.

So you have a generation of guys that have terrible social skills AND are surrounded by "evidence" of gorgeous girls everywhere. So they have a strange mixture of "entitlement" to women, mixed with an inability to "get" said women.

This creates a lot of anger, and a lot of men both WANT women and HATE them at the same time for not "giving" them what they THINK they deserve.

Not that the anger is justified, but it's there nonetheless.

I've been posting on a few other "male oriented" boards for a few years and I've noticed they've devolved (over the last few years) away from genuine self-improvement type techniques into women-hating "women are evil so manipulating them is OK" type of thing.

It's almost as if many men these days hold INDIVIDUAL women responsible for the general collapse in "traditional" family values (whether or not they ever actually existed). Many men see a pretty girl and their automatic response is anger. They want her, and they KNOW they can't get her, they blame her, so they get angry.

Unfortunately, I don't think this will improve much in the future.

ShyStripper
10-27-2016, 03:28 AM
I don't think it's solely an issue for women. Assholes will prey on people they perceive to be weak and bully them into doing what they want.

Interestingly the dive bar I was at had way better security than the gentleman's clubs I worked at. The dance rooms had see through curtains and the bouncers would yell at customers for hugging you too long. At the gentleman's club they kinda looked the other way for high spending customers.

SuperJa
10-27-2016, 11:03 AM
I have a theory. Twenty years ago books on "how to pick up women" were actually about how to talk to and date women. Now they are filled with 20% techniques, and 80% "why women are evil."


This is so true.

I often have guys at work asking during dances, "how do I get a hot girl like you???" and my answer is always the same: "Stop thinking of her as a 'hot girl' and start thinking of her as a person." And they don't like it and they say that's ridiculous or whatever, they all want some "trick".

That is literally the "trick". Any person I know in a successful relationship and any guy that I've dated has done the same thing. Show genuine interest in the things she enjoys, compliment her on things that aren't just superficial, be open about yourself and always continuing to learn about her.

But the idea that "hot girls" aren't real people, and all respond to the same ""techniques"" sells books better than actual emotional effort.

MissMoore
10-27-2016, 11:19 AM
I have a theory. Twenty years ago books on "how to pick up women" were actually about how to talk to and date women. Now they are filled with 20% techniques, and 80% "why women are evil."

Also, traditional relationships are breaking down, and at the same time, you see gorgeous girls everywhere (instagram, fb, yt, etc). AND at the same time, people (mostly guys) have absolutely horrible social skills.

So you have a generation of guys that have terrible social skills AND are surrounded by "evidence" of gorgeous girls everywhere. So they have a strange mixture of "entitlement" to women, mixed with an inability to "get" said women.

This creates a lot of anger, and a lot of men both WANT women and HATE them at the same time for not "giving" them what they THINK they deserve.

Not that the anger is justified, but it's there nonetheless.

I've been posting on a few other "male oriented" boards for a few years and I've noticed they've devolved (over the last few years) away from genuine self-improvement type techniques into women-hating "women are evil so manipulating them is OK" type of thing.

It's almost as if many men these days hold INDIVIDUAL women responsible for the general collapse in "traditional" family values (whether or not they ever actually existed). Many men see a pretty girl and their automatic response is anger. They want her, and they KNOW they can't get her, they blame her, so they get angry.

Unfortunately, I don't think this will improve much in the future.


This is precisely on the money!!!

I always wondered why men would be resentful of me when I looked attractive. It seemed men and hell... even sometimes women would be so rude to me the better I looked. When I am dressed down or am just looking like everybody else I typically get left alone.

November_Scorpio
10-27-2016, 11:19 AM
I don't like to wallow in my problems but I want some support.

I used to work in a Manhattan club and some seriously not good stuff went down there in the VIP, multiple times. You can read my review of Sapphire if you're curious. I kept telling myself that the things that were happening to me were no big deal and that I ought to be able to just get over them, and that they were happening because I was using the wrong hustling techniques or didn't do the right things once I got to the VIP, or something. So I kept going back there and these things kept happening, over and over. I thought I'd eventually improve. Now I feel dumb for not quitting sooner.

I took a couple of weeks off after that. I'm stripping elsewhere now, but once a week or less. I can't hustle any more. I hate every customer I see.

Street harassment happens every time I leave my apartment, usually three or four times per trip. Guys will look at me through half-closed eyes and suck air in through their teeth like I'm sucking their dick. I get informed of a lot of things about my body and my looks. Lots of stuff like that happens. I'm sure you all know how it is, being attractive women who presumably walk around in populated areas.

Some guy at the club started rubbing my crotch through my panties last night. I said, "You can't do that." He said, "Why not?" I said, "Because I don't want you to." He looked shocked. Like... dancers aren't just walking sex dolls? We actually have wants?

The recurring theme seems to be that no matter where I go, men treat me like I'm theirs. Except when I'm with my boyfriend. They're respectful then. They wouldn't want to stake a claim on something someone else already owns.

I'm so tired of being touched and smirked at and catcalled like my body was made specifically for them to enjoy. I hate them all so much.

I ordered a hijab (head scarf traditionally worn by Muslim women) to wear in public for when I'm not out with my bf. From now on those cunts on the street don't get to see my beautiful hair, my neck or my shoulders or the shape of my body or anything else, because it's MY body, and I don't owe it to them, and they certainly don't deserve the satisfaction of seeing it at all after the way they treat me.

Can't wait to be able to quit stripping. I'm especially bitter about that, since stripping was awesome until the NYC cocksuckers ruined it for me.


p.s., I love my boyfriend a lot and he's pretty much kept my faith in humanity going throughout all of this. He's so sweet. I don't even think he knows the vast importance of everything he's done for me.

Unfortunately the clubs do create an attitude among men that the women in the club can be bought in the club for any price and I think many men see the club as a way to fullfill their needs because they see their needs just being unable to be met in real world due to whatever reason looks, personality, age, race, what they do for a living, etc. I know this first hand because going to the clubs as a side effect I have seen the damage it does to dancers in the long run and it has damaged me by training me to see women more as an object that can be bought which is wrong I know. So I am trying to stop the club addiction of mine because I see the damage the clubs do to the dancers and also to the customers. A good friend of mine is a psychologist and I am seeing a lot of what he said seems true. Especially reading your post it seems to echo what he has seen in women he has counseled who use to work as strippers. He said the clubs teach women to hate men and they teach men to treat women as sex objects that can be bought, both consequences very detrimental for the men that go to the clubs and the dancers that work at them.

I know it's kind of an old post, but if you still need help in getting over your anger and feelings a good psychologist or therapist who has had strippers as clients before may help you.

SuperJa
10-27-2016, 01:54 PM
I actually find men in strip clubs generally much more respectful than men outside of the club. I don't think clubs train men to objectify women, I think society in general objectifies them. In the strip club, men understand that to have my attention for a period of time, they have to pay for it. Customers who tip well and respect boundaries are awesome. Guys who try to pick up girls in the grocery store and then get angry when they're ignored are the ones I have issues with.

A lot of the crappiness just comes from meeting so many men, not that there is anything wrong with the job. If I dance for 20 men in a night and 1 is a rule-breaking asshat, I don't blame the job. I blame that particular man. I can do hundreds of dances in a week and not be assaulted, but after work some drunk idiot puking beside the building, who wasn't even in the club thinks I want him to hit on me. Really?

Apparently PP thinks the job is "damaging". Society is damaging. Don't think for a second that we get harassed any more because we're strippers. The guys who catcall us throughout our daily errands don't know we're strippers. They'd harass us regardless just for being female. If anything, strippers just end up "woke" to the problems women face because meet so many men, and we're more likely to respond negatively to interactions with men because we know they think they are entitled to free attention, but they're not.

Selina M
10-27-2016, 03:28 PM
I like gw, he can stay on the board!
(Seriously, your posts have been all great so far)

Agreed with SuperJa. I get treated much better in the club in general. They know we're not employees and can walk away/tell them to fuck off/dump drinks on them, and that we won't suffer repercussions (in decent clubs at least). They know we have bouncers to back us up and boot them out. Like, I would never be worried a guy might try to assault me in the club for being told to fuck off, because the bouncers would be on him in 2 seconds. That isn't the case on the street.

I used to never respond to harassment but after years of being a stripper and getting used to putting grown ass men in their place at work, I am much more a) aware of being harassed or treated poorly OTC, and b) more likely to cuss out and embarrass them in front of everyone around when they catcall me.
My non-stripper friends tend to just roll their eyes and take it, but I do react more strongly because I am used to men having to pay for my attention and treat me with respect.

RyanXO
10-28-2016, 01:45 PM
I have a theory. Twenty years ago books on "how to pick up women" were actually about how to talk to and date women. Now they are filled with 20% techniques, and 80% "why women are evil."

Also, traditional relationships are breaking down, and at the same time, you see gorgeous girls everywhere (instagram, fb, yt, etc). AND at the same time, people (mostly guys) have absolutely horrible social skills.

So you have a generation of guys that have terrible social skills AND are surrounded by "evidence" of gorgeous girls everywhere. So they have a strange mixture of "entitlement" to women, mixed with an inability to "get" said women.

This creates a lot of anger, and a lot of men both WANT women and HATE them at the same time for not "giving" them what they THINK they deserve.

Not that the anger is justified, but it's there nonetheless.

I've been posting on a few other "male oriented" boards for a few years and I've noticed they've devolved (over the last few years) away from genuine self-improvement type techniques into women-hating "women are evil so manipulating them is OK" type of thing.

It's almost as if many men these days hold INDIVIDUAL women responsible for the general collapse in "traditional" family values (whether or not they ever actually existed). Many men see a pretty girl and their automatic response is anger. They want her, and they KNOW they can't get her, they blame her, so they get angry.

Unfortunately, I don't think this will improve much in the future.

Absolutely brilliant comment! You just summed up everything that I have thought about but have had trouble putting into words. It seems to me a lot of men are getting madder and madder the more independent and sure of themselves women are. Hell, even other women are blaming other women. Literally made me sick to my stomach, but a female relative actually said "life used to be so much easier before women's rights stirred the pot." Even my mom has blamed women for dead-beat dads that don't stick around. "Well if they would stop putting out so easy there would not be so many issues." I am not trying to be a victim, but I am SICK and FUCKING TIRED of every little thing being blamed on us. Kids don't turn out right? Woman's fault. Divorce? Woman's fault. "The decline of the nuclear family?" Women's issues caused that. And then you have the poor, poor men who get friend-zoned by us evil wimmin. Like SuperJa said, because maybe we are terrified of retaliation if we turn you down?

Ugg I could go on for hours...

We had a rabbit like you
10-30-2016, 10:00 AM
I'm now glad I have sons so I can teach them not to be complet entitled little pieces of SHIT. like the males of my generation.
Males are not naturally pieces of shit..I used to think that, but seeing my son I see how sensitive and emotional and caring he still is at this point, it's society that drills into them their feelings of entitlement and superiority and weak self esteem based on putting women down.
Their sense of "manliness" is based off of nothing but being "better" than women and projecting their own i securities onto us ..masculinity as fragile as their balls and emotional state. So now that women are calling them on society's bullshit and double standards and reclaiming our equality they don't know how to deal!!!

MissMoore
10-30-2016, 10:30 AM
I moved to a different state last year and the men here are so fucking demented!!! The both states I've lived in previously were known for being rude and aggressive but where I live now takes the cake. Even the women here are fruit cakes. I've had 3 men hit my car door and not even say anything. Mannerless pussies! After the first time this happened I was so taken aback I didn't do anything. Now I make sure I get a picture of their license plate. Last night some big pussy hit my car door... for NO REASON. I got out of the car, went to the back of his car, took a picture of his license plate, walked around to make sure there wasn't any significant damage done my door and smiled at him while he stared. I guess he was shocked I got out the car in the first place. If if he would even fucking came near me I would have maced his sorry ass. Funny though.... it took him 3 times to get his car to start! LOL Talk about insta-karma.

These kookbirds who think they are going to take their issues they don't know how deal with out on me are in for a rude awakening. I will call the cops, embarrass, or if necessary attack anybody who who makes me fear for my safety so fast it make their head spin.

miss.a.p1600
10-30-2016, 12:19 PM
I'm now glad I have sons so I can teach them not to be complet entitled little pieces of SHIT. like the males of my generation.
Males are not naturally pieces of shit..I used to think that, but seeing my son I see how sensitive and emotional and caring he still is at this point, it's society that drills into them their feelings of entitlement and superiority and weak self esteem based on putting women down.
Their sense of "manliness" is based off of nothing but being "better" than women and projecting their own i securities onto us ..masculinity as fragile as their balls and emotional state. So now that women are calling them on society's bullshit and double standards and reclaiming our equality they don't know how to deal!!!

Need more men like that. Hopefully he'll marry someone with your views and won't have to worry about society's expectations.

And yes I am disappointed with a lot of these men out here. Last dude I dated had so many narcissistic qualities. Statistically speaking men are more likely to be narcissists.

It's like he was fearful to be his real self so he had to go extreme "alpha" male. He wasn't even alpha male he had superiority complex and he did try to project his fears (someone he liked leaving him) onto me. He lead using fear and to me that's not a good leader.

He was always complaIning and downing other people - those who made less than him. And jealous of those who made more than him, especially if they were a different race. He thought the world revolved around him and everyone should drop everything to accommodate him. Like hoe if you want the ritz Carlton / girlfriend experience, you have to pay the price for that. But of course a misogynistic narcissist is not goIng to respect a woman or her time.

I realize if this is what society sees as alpha male I don't want no parts of that.

Makes you realize men are not masculine when they feel the need to disrespect women to feel better about themselves/ get ahead in life.

gw
10-30-2016, 01:03 PM
It's like he was fearful to be his real self so he had to go extreme "alpha" male. He wasn't even alpha male he had superiority complex and he did try to project his fears (someone he liked leaving him) onto me. He lead using fear and to me that's not a good leader.


I agree that most "alphas" today are really just faking it. False behavior to cover deep inner insecurity.

True alphas are extremely rare. Here's an interesting observation from a pack of wolves:


A wolf pack: the first 3 are the old or sick, they give the pace to the entire pack. If it was the other way round, they would be left behind, losing contact with the pack. In case of an ambush they would be sacrificed. Then come 5 strong ones, the front line. In the center are the rest of the pack members, then the 5 strongest following. Last is alone, the alpha. He controls everything from the rear. In that position he can see everything, decide the direction. He sees all of the pack. The pack moves according to the elders pace and help each other, watch each other.

46437

DonaDiabla
10-30-2016, 06:12 PM
I do not hate men. I am just very indifferent to many of them overall. I have always been very indifferent towards men since I was a little girl. I never fell for their tricks or games. However, many of my male friends value that apart of about me. Plus, I can smell fake alphas a mile away! I know they are just little insecure children hiding behind a true man's persona. :)

live_deliciously
11-04-2016, 07:58 PM
Hi I'm new.

I'm also a guy. Can't help it. Here's my 2 cents. Hopefully you can stay awake through this.

It's not easy being a man nowadays. It may sound funny but it's true. A lot of attention (and rightfully so) is given to girls - how to deal with historical injustices, how to (finally!) make them equal to men, whether it's respect or pay, etc, etc. And somewhere in there, through those years, men slipped through the cracks a bit!

It used to be - you're born a man. You know you're going to be the bread-winner. The provider. You knew you would marry, have kids. There used to be a certain pride in that. A sudden sense of worth. And you didn't have to be super educated, or sport a six pack, or loaded. As long as you were man and not a complete tool, with some decent work ethic, you were set! House in the suburbs and all that! And women *needed* you. They may or not have *wanted* you - but they *needed* you. Because society did not expect them to survive on their own - what - get a *job*? Ludicrous! A woman's job was to be the housewife and take care of the household, period. And she *needed* a man who would provide.

So fast forward a bit. The economy has changed. Women have entered the work-force. They have their own careers. And they don't. Need. Men. They might *want* them - sometimes - or choose to be with one - but they don't need them in the hunter-gatherer sense. And the jobs changed. Blue-collar jobs disappeared or became shit. It's the knowledge economy now - you need brains. And people skills. Not muscles. The economy was basically emasculated.

And now, you're a man, and - so what? Nothing that used to be, is guaranteed is anymore. You might never find a woman who likes you. You might never be the provider, the bread-winner, the head of the household. You might never find a decent job that pays a respectful salary and that doesn't trust you like shit.

And you become angry. You don't get it. Why? Why is it like this? What *changed*, fundamentally? You can see this anger - in people who're going to vote for Trump. Mostly white men, it turns out.

There is frustration and anger. And here's another huge disadvantage - unlike women, men are *not* good at dealing with emotions. We are emotional retards. Truly. We are taught to suck it in - don't cry, don't complain, shut up, "be a man" - do you have any idea what that's like? We are fucking pressure cookers. And we're constantly exploding, left and right. Just watch the news.

I got lucky. I write software in a cozy low-pressure environment. I respect women, I *like* women - they're not a threat to me, they're not a threat to what society expects me to be - the bread-winner, the provider, etc. Because society *still* expects that from me - even though my girlfriend might be making more than me.

I'd probably be a lot angrier if I were living in some podunk Midwestern town where the factory closed and now I have to sell auto parts.

I'm not making excuses for assholes. All I'm saying is - even behind the biggest asshole hides what was once a boy with big dreams and ideas who made a few mistakes or never had the opportunities I had, or just can't ... cope with our current reality.

Men need help. They really do.

Gia2608
11-04-2016, 08:28 PM
Wow. That was brilliant and poignant. I was wondering half way through if you were a writer. And while you may write in code; you also have a certain command for putting the English language into prose, a talent that I admire and sadly lack. I have a lot of platonic male friends (probably about 70% of my social circle), and no- they do not all want to fuck me. The problem; if I may add to your post is that many young men these days direct this anger towards women. For instance- if a random guy hits me up on facebook and I do not answer him right away ( I don't use FB very often and spend about 11 hours a day n front of my computer working) they change their "Hey, beautiful" to "Fuck you bitch, your (not you're) ugly anyways (Don't know why that "s" is there)"...

Some 16 year old boys were walking behind me in the mall tonight and one said "Yo, that bitch gotta ass"... I am old enough to be your teen mom for one. For two I was literally un-showered, in yoga pants with a hole on the side, bleach stains and an old t-shirt; my hair in a messy tangled bun, $1.00 flip flops and walking with a limp due to ankle sprain. Are you fucking kidding me?? I came here to pay my VS bill- what gives you the right to ruin my evening with your bullshit.

There is clearly a lack of respect for the opposite gender that we are both guilty of. In one generation popular culture went from "You're still the one" to "Trufflebutter". Shit is a mess.

I have 4 nephews. The oldest is 21- I have made him give up his bar stool for a female friend to be a gentleman. I also make sure he opens car doors and knocks on the door to pick up dates as opposed to honking from the driveway. The 2nd oldest is 11- this weekend we were trick or treating and his BFF (a girl) was in an air cast- I kept yelling at him to walk slow and wait for her (which he rolled his eyes at, but begrudgingly did.) I think this is the best we can do- teach the younger generation to respect one another.

AmericanFlyer
11-05-2016, 12:39 AM
I think there's more to it than the world has changed and men have been short-changed in the process.

I see young men who have forgotten how to treat a woman. They don't date they just expect a woman to come over and watch Netflix with them and have sex focused on themselves with little or no attention paid to her needs.

They need to show respect for a woman by asking her out for Friday or Saturday night for dinner and a movie, or ice skating, or bowling, or something fun. They need to pay for dinner. I know there has been a big push for years for woman to split the check, but women already have a lot of expenses, like hair and nails, makeup, etc. I'll bet most men have no clue how much it costs to visit the beauty shop to get ready for a date! Just because you pay for dinner or treat a woman right doesn't set up an expectation (which I see far too often). As Elaine said when told she left out the best part, she said "No, I mentioned the crab bisque." If it happens it happens but feeling entitled is just plain wrong.

This is not to say that there's not a time for being impulsive and just going for it, but that's not what I see. It's the norm, and some women are as much to blame for it as guys. It's amazing what happens when you treat a woman respectfully.

Gia2608
11-05-2016, 02:26 PM
I moved to a different state last year and the men here are so fucking demented!!! The both states I've lived in previously were known for being rude and aggressive but where I live now takes the cake. Even the women here are fruit cakes. I've had 3 men hit my car door and not even say anything. Mannerless pussies! After the first time this happened I was so taken aback I didn't do anything. Now I make sure I get a picture of their license plate. Last night some big pussy hit my car door... for NO REASON. I got out of the car, went to the back of his car, took a picture of his license plate, walked around to make sure there wasn't any significant damage done my door and smiled at him while he stared. I guess he was shocked I got out the car in the first place. If if he would even fucking came near me I would have maced his sorry ass. Funny though.... it took him 3 times to get his car to start! LOL Talk about insta-karma.

These kookbirds who think they are going to take their issues they don't know how deal with out on me are in for a rude awakening. I will call the cops, embarrass, or if necessary attack anybody who who makes me fear for my safety so fast it make their head spin.

Did you move to Mass? I know you were specifically not saying where it was; sorry- took a wild guess.

seashell
11-05-2016, 04:03 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but young people in general are lacking in social skills. I saw it growing up and when I worked as a teacher. Parents are having fewer children, so there is less opportunity to socialize at a young age... kids are sent to daycare rather than raised by a stay-at-home parent... technology takes the place of social activities, or young people mostly socialize through their phones/tablets/computers rather than face-to-face... and when these kids are thrown out into the real world to look for jobs/friends/spouses, they have no manners or social graces. Young men haven't been taught how to treat women, but that's just a small side effect of what our culture has turned into.

Not saying we should go back to the 1950's, but we do need to make our youth more capable. I've seen schools try to instill social skills with certain programs, and while it would be better to have a parent guiding a child, at least it's something.

MissMoore
11-06-2016, 12:09 AM
Did you move to Mass? I know you were specifically not saying where it was; sorry- took a wild guess.

You're close.... I'm living in the North East. Such odd and strange behavior displayed by grown adults.

Gia2608
11-07-2016, 10:07 PM
It was the "fucking demented" that gave it away.

Dorothea
11-20-2016, 11:57 PM
I know how you feel. I hate these fuckers too. Nothing but dicks no brain.

Ifyouseekamy
05-11-2017, 10:41 PM
I love the hijab!!! Good idea. For everything else you said. Me too sister.

Selina M
05-12-2017, 02:58 AM
I gotta add to this... What is with the disrespectful line of questioning approach to hitting on women?

"How's your day? Did you work? No?!" <-- Like I should defend that?
"What'd you do all day?" "Chilled by yourself? Why?" <-- Uhhhh introverted? Idk buddy but I'm not inviting YOU over.

What happened to small talk and gauging if the person is interested? These guys that do this seem to have zero skill at reading basic social cues or anything. They can't seem to tell by my tone or body language that I'm finding them rude and invasive. Why are guys so obtuse in that respect now?

Glamourmilf
05-12-2017, 04:00 AM
On Twitter, @Cuntresse. Yeoshin Lourdes
I'm in a real man hating stage right now, and I find her tweets very comforting.:)

Ifyouseekamy
05-12-2017, 05:33 AM
Well it's not like I'm inwardly whimpering and worried about these big bad men every time they cross my path. I just think they're absolute scum and I'd be cool with it if they died. Usually I'm staring ahead blankly with my signature blank stare.

Men don't just harass women who send off "victim vibes." I wouldn't even say a majority of men pick their target based on that. I just think they do it because they think women in general are up for grabs by virtue of being a woman.

I know you all are saying stuff like "Not to victim blame, BUT" and I know you're just trying to help, but it is kind of starting to be... not so cool?... that so many people seem to think I'm doing something to bring this upon myself. I can promise you, I am not.

It's just something they do because society says it's cool to objectify. That's it. They don't look to harass me because of some personality flaw I have. It probably never even crosses their mind that I have a personality.

Or... maybe you guys saying it's me are right, but I would stake my life on the fact that you're wrong. I'm the one who's been in all my particular situations and it just does not feel like anything other than my physical appearance comes into play. I'll know the answer when I start wearing the head covering! If it really is my personality, they should still be able to detect it and will still give me problems, but if it's my sex appeal, covering my hair with a nunlike headdress should eliminate a lot of harassment. :P

I'm so tired of therapy culture and pop psychology. It's a social problem, not a woman's psychological problem. My friend buys into all that therapy stuff. Yes it is helpful sometimes, but other times it is invalidating. Men shouldn't abuse or harass women. I wish I had a detachable vigina.

miss.a.p1600
05-12-2017, 06:14 AM
^^^thats the worst. When a deranged dude fucks with you to the point you are told You need therapy?!?

Like no bitch I'm not the psycho, YOU the one who needs motherfucking therapy.

Violethollywood
05-12-2017, 06:28 AM
I gotta add to this... What is with the disrespectful line of questioning approach to hitting on women?

"How's your day? Did you work? No?!" <-- Like I should defend that?
"What'd you do all day?" "Chilled by yourself? Why?" <-- Uhhhh introverted? Idk buddy but I'm not inviting YOU over.

What happened to small talk and gauging if the person is interested? These guys that do this seem to have zero skill at reading basic social cues or anything. They can't seem to tell by my tone or body language that I'm finding them rude and invasive. Why are guys so obtuse in that respect now?

yuuuussssssssssssssss.every day im like do these idiots think us women really respond to that ? Is this guy a sociopath? etc .
"hey baby you are so beautiful." 3 seconds later " i wanna choke you to death with my cock"-- wait, what?

"yeah you know you like it." right bc i really enjoy not being able to breathe and feeling like im gonna throw up all over your mediocre dick. #eyeroll

fucking weirdos man. I tell my bf all the time, if he was ever like these idiots in his approach with me, i would have never looked twice at him lol.

he didn't even send me a dick pic til we had been seeing each other for over a month bless his heart.

i hate other men so much that if me and him ever split, i wouldnt ever mess with guys again. not that i'd be gay id just be single and masturbate.
i partly blame work but also me as a person lol

KivaWithAnI
05-13-2017, 11:32 AM
Pro tip girls: if someone assaults you in VIP, tell them they are legally assaulting you. if they ignore you, promptly punch them or kick them in the nuts. You are well within your rights to self defense if someone assaults you. I promise.

I do it all the time.

KivaWithAnI
05-13-2017, 11:36 AM
Op needs to be more violent.

KivaWithAnI
05-13-2017, 11:37 AM
In one club I worked at there was a cutesy old timey sign that read "ladies will punk kick and bite you if you don't follow the rules."

SnuffleUffleGrass
05-16-2017, 07:21 AM
Absolutely brilliant comment! You just summed up everything that I have thought about but have had trouble putting into words. It seems to me a lot of men are getting madder and madder the more independent and sure of themselves women are. Hell, even other women are blaming other women. Literally made me sick to my stomach, but a female relative actually said "life used to be so much easier before women's rights stirred the pot." Even my mom has blamed women for dead-beat dads that don't stick around. "Well if they would stop putting out so easy there would not be so many issues." I am not trying to be a victim, but I am SICK and FUCKING TIRED of every little thing being blamed on us. Kids don't turn out right? Woman's fault. Divorce? Woman's fault. "The decline of the nuclear family?" Women's issues caused that. And then you have the poor, poor men who get friend-zoned by us evil wimmin. Like SuperJa said, because maybe we are terrified of retaliation if we turn you down?

Ugg I could go on for hours...

There's a lot of great info in this thread.

I went through a couple periods of deep hatred towards men in my youth. Ironically now in maturity men are my best friends.

Hate can be un-learned.

I think today with Millenial young men they have unrealistic expectations & play too many games (both computer & social.) Society as a whole seems ruder & more cut-throat.

Violethollywood
05-16-2017, 07:47 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but young people in general are lacking in social skills. I saw it growing up and when I worked as a teacher. Parents are having fewer children, so there is less opportunity to socialize at a young age... kids are sent to daycare rather than raised by a stay-at-home parent... technology takes the place of social activities, or young people mostly socialize through their phones/tablets/computers rather than face-to-face... and when these kids are thrown out into the real world to look for jobs/friends/spouses, they have no manners or social graces. Young men haven't been taught how to treat women, but that's just a small side effect of what our culture has turned into.

Not saying we should go back to the 1950's, but we do need to make our youth more capable. I've seen schools try to instill social skills with certain programs, and while it would be better to have a parent guiding a child, at least it's something.


YES . PREACH. so many parents don't pay attention to their kids theyre all stuck in their phones or working and send them to day care to be socialized.