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sierra.
03-09-2014, 10:47 AM
Well unfortunately, irl, it's hard to have just normal friendly interaction between a custy and a dancer. To give a typical example, I once offered to loan money to a dancer who needed to pay a big bill to get her car back from the repair shop. Instead of seeing it as a courtesy, she was annoyed that I wouldn't just give her the money as a gift.

Most dancers keep their nipples away from my mouth. It's only happened a few times that I've misread the dancer's intentions. But in all but two cases that I can remember, that lead to an offer to upsell breast kissing.

First of all, that first story is so fucking irrelevant, how is it an example of anything? "One time a dancer wanted me to give her money so I'm not going to ask permission before I do something that might violate her boundaries."

And you basically just admitted that by not asking, you HAVE assaulted girls. But it's OK because as far as you know it was only a couple times.

gocanucks
03-09-2014, 11:01 AM
1. Custies should ask & not assume this is OK, because clearly it's not for a lot of dancers.
2. Some dancers do offer it as OK - which is why custies have posted on this happening in their past experiences.
3. Because it happens, a fair # of dancers who don't allow this have been subject to unwanted advances on their nipples (and elsewhere) - I think we all agree is never OK, even if it was unintentional.
4. Custies that post here are likely not reflective of the entire population of custies, as are dancers that post here for the entire dancer population.
5. Justin Bieber is something Canadians are not proud of in any way.

If people agree on #1-#5, I think we are speaking the same points, except from different experiences (except for the Bieber part). In a perfect world, every custie asks, but we know that's not the case - in which case, making the limits clear is the only protection dancers have, since they can't assume all custies will know in advance what's OK and what isn't (and I'm saying this as someone who asks, and not really into this, but in general).

(Just trying to show how mostly, we all agree - past experiences influence us, but maybe if we accept the above, it helps moves things forward).

ytqclys
03-09-2014, 11:01 AM
But it's ok because we aren't actually people. That's how they justify it.

No I think most customers get it that it's a fantasy. I certainly do.

Work is doing things that you don't actually want to do in exchange for money. Ideally, it should be clear what the dancer is willing to do (before the custy agrees to the dance), and the custy should respect the dancer's limits. Many dancers don't do all they could to get this clarity, and many custies don't respect the dancers limits. Arguably the later is worse than the former, but both contribute to the problem.

Apparently some people want to drown in their own bile, conflating customers wanting dancers to do certain things, and trying to force them to do certain things. Whatever, your life.

drake
03-09-2014, 11:28 AM
Also, what is with this obsession customers have with sucking breasts in the first place? Another sad customer attempt to convince themselves they can give us pleasure? News flash: it doesn't. Even if a girl allows it, 9.9 times out of 10 she is only tolerating it (either because she feels she has to or because she's indifferent and allowing it just seems easier). You are more likely to ruin her ability to find the act pleasurable in her personal life than to actually give her any pleasure yourself.

Since you ask I may as well be completely upfront.

Yes, it is a sad attempt to convince myself that I can give her some modicum of pleasure.

Also, she does a pretty good job of giving me the impression that she enjoys it at least a little bit, and she's also been known to say as much.

If I thought that I was spoiling things for her in her personal life then I would be sad about that and would want to stop doing it.

So there you go.

But I also understand that many girls might have very strong negative feelings about it and I believe that one should always be respectful of a woman's personal boundaries in any context.

drake
03-09-2014, 11:30 AM
1. Custies should ask & not assume this is OK, because clearly it's not for a lot of dancers.
2. Some dancers do offer it as OK - which is why custies have posted on this happening in their past experiences.
3. Because it happens, a fair # of dancers who don't allow this have been subject to unwanted advances on their nipples (and elsewhere) - I think we all agree is never OK, even if it was unintentional.
4. Custies that post here are likely not reflective of the entire population of custies, as are dancers that post here for the entire dancer population.
5. Justin Bieber is something Canadians are not proud of in any way.


This seems to be a succint summary of the pertinent points.

charlotte.
03-09-2014, 12:56 PM
But it's ok because we aren't actually people. That's how they justify it.sadly this is the truth. either that or there are a lot more rapists in the world.

yoda57us
03-09-2014, 03:00 PM
Dancers, that means you should not consider a custy to be the spawn of Satan because we wants to put his mouth on your nipples. Keep them away from his mouth if you're not down with it. If you want to give him a close-up look at your boob, put your hand against his throat, to make it clear that's all he's getting.


Put your hand against his throat? Why is it necessary make any sort of physical move against the customer and risk either escalating the situation, possible injury, or maybe getting fired, simply to avoid being assaulted by that customer? Sorry but I just don't buy into this at all. Getting a lap dance is not the same thing as dating or "making out" with a girlfriend. Like it or not what goes on between a customer and a dancer is a business transaction. As with any business transaction both parties should know what they are getting involved with before they enter into the transaction. In other words, a customer should ask what he can do or tell a girl what he wants to do and see if it going to fly with her and how much it's going to cost. Yeah, I know that takes the romance right out of grabbing and sucking on an unsuspecting woman's tits but hey, that's the way it goes sometimes.

For years and years and YEARS I got very close up dances from some very lovely ladies who put their lovely perfumed breasts within inches of my face without me ever ONCE trying to put one in my mouth. not saying it was easy for me resits but I did. Why? Because my mother didn't raise an asshole. At the risk of repeating my "old guy who got dances before there was any contact" mantra, a dancer putting her body near you is not an invitation for you to violate it. Her putting her ass or vagina near you is not an invitation for you to stick something in, spit on it or blow on it and a nipple an inch or two from your mouth is not meant to indicate that it's feeding time for you. For Christ's sake even hookers have rules about what is allowed during an appointment!

It's simple, grow a pair and ASK what is OK and what is not before going back to the dance area. We don't need any sort of obtuse methods for men to play some sort of first-base-second base 8th grade slap and tickle games with strippers. What we need is for men to simply stop acting like self-entitled assholes.

yoda57us
03-09-2014, 03:17 PM
I'm sorry about that. But suppose you worked in a nursing home, and you were totally disgusted with emptying bed pans, what could really be done about it?

Well, one could quit but one knows that one will be cleaning bed pans before accepting a job in a nursing home.


I don't think it's going to be good for the lap dance industry if there has to be two lawyers on the couch too, representing each side. If a dancer positions herself so her nipple is a 2 - 3 inches from the custy's mouth, I don't think she should be surprised the custy sees that as an invitation. Even without any formal verbal contract.

Why shouldn't she be surprised? Why should a customer see the act of a woman dancing naked in front of him as an invitation to assault her? They should expect this?


Work is doing things that you don't actually want to do in exchange for money. Ideally, it should be clear what the dancer is willing to do (before the custy agrees to the dance), and the custy should respect the dancer's limits. Many dancers don't do all they could to get this clarity, and many custies don't respect the dancers limits. Arguably the later is worse than the former, but both contribute to the problem.

I guess I should feel badly that you hate your job so much. Sorry but I don't view my job at all as the way you are describing in the above quote. Some dancers really enjoy many aspects of their job but that enjoyment is connected to customers acting like good men, not jerks. Dancers are responsible for a customer's "clarity" on what is allowed? Sorry but I beg to differ. The minute the customer assumes that anything is allowed beyond just looking he is the one causing the problem. The only way a dancer is guilty here is if she lies to a customer about what she will allow in the dance area and then doesn't follow through. Even then, it does not give the customer the right to continue with physical assault if he starts it and she tells him to stop. No means no.

Vackra
03-09-2014, 04:29 PM
I cringe when I'm seeing it mentioned as breast "kissing", because that feels too frilly for such a vile act where customers act like starving infants.

gocanucks
03-09-2014, 05:26 PM
Dancers are responsible for a customer's "clarity" on what is allowed? Sorry but I beg to differ. The minute the customer assumes that anything is allowed beyond just looking he is the one causing the problem. The only way a dancer is guilty here is if she lies to a customer about what she will allow in the dance area and then doesn't follow through. Even then, it does not give the customer the right to continue with physical assault if he starts it and she tells him to stop. No means no.

Agree with everything you posted - and even the above part as well. But, let's be honest - there are too many custies where they don't follow what seems like common sense and ask. It makes sense for dancers to set the rules ahead as an added measure of protection, since it's more common to see this as something that's in-bounds, when clearly there's a lot of dancers who don't want this at all.

To be clear, an unwanted advance is 100 percent the custie's fault, plain and simple. But assigning blame doesn't change the impact it has on dancers afterwards. That's why it's frankly smart practice nowadays to make it clear what is OK and what isn't ahead of time. Custies should always ask - but if they don't ask, then there's additional risk for the dancer - which only the dancer can then mitigate by setting ground rules ahead of time. Again, even if a dancer doesn't specify what is OK ahead of time, the custie still has no justification to do something out of bounds - but it's better to be pro-active about preventing these kind of situations, because in the end, the dancer loses out more than anyone. Even if it only prevents 1 unwanted advance due to ignorance on the custie's side, that's still seems worth the effort.

I say this as a father of two pre-teen girls - I'd probably want to maim any boy that goes too far with one of them once they start dating (at age 25, I'm hoping, but no chance of that), but I'd also tell my girls to stand up for what's not OK, to try and protect themselves ahead of time (and as their dad, I obviously would never blame them for any unwanted advances, but I'd still want them to protect themselves as much as possible - setting limits ahead of time makes sense, and if that didn't work, mace & a whistle would be my choice for them to use, I'd favor something a little more extreme). >:( The same thinking would go to the suggestion to set ground rules before...

drake
03-09-2014, 06:21 PM
It's amazing that we're having a debate about it. As the dancers say, if she doesn't want it then it's sexual assault. Certainly they have the legal facts on their side there.

It seems sensible for dancers to be clear in advance about what their boundaries were, and I would probably appreciate them telling me about what things were definitely not OK.

ytqclys
03-09-2014, 07:33 PM
Actually, there have been a few time when dancers unbuttoned my shirt and kissed or pinched my nipples. Not really my thing, but I knew they had no malicious intentions, so I didn't complain.

So go easy on me, I'm also a victim of sexual assault.

drake
03-09-2014, 09:00 PM
Actually, there have been a few time when dancers unbuttoned my shirt and kissed or pinched my nipples. Not really my thing, but I knew they had no malicious intentions, so I didn't complain.

So go easy on me, I'm also a victim of sexual assault.

Yes, okay, fair enough, that is an interesting point you make. But here is what would happen if you actually took the matter to court. The jury would have to decide whether the dancer was "reckless about consent". The judge would instruct them about what that concept meant, legally speaking. Of course, you would run a certain risk that the jury might think "What the fuck are you complaining about?" But if you want to try to convince a jury that you felt violated, then by all means give it your best shot.

The remarks that the dancers make in this thread clearly indicate that a customer who sucks nipples without asking can be being reckless about consent. I agree with you that you can imagine a situation where a customer is simply confused about what is a reasonable assumption to make, and I agree that making such an honest mistake can be considered forgivable. But now that you have actually read what the dancers here have to say about it it puzzles me that you continue to insist that there is no need to get explicit verbal consent.

ytqclys
03-09-2014, 09:04 PM
I guess anyone who's ever had sex without one of these is also guilty of sexual assault.

drake
03-09-2014, 09:28 PM
That's a parody of what I'm saying. There is a legal rule that you should not be reckless about consent. I am in favour of this legal rule. It is possible to abide by the rule without making a formal contract every time you have sex.

The reason why it is a good legal rule is that if you don't follow it you run the risk that the other person will experience it as a serious violation. The dancers have made it clear that this is a possible outcome. You have a moral and legal obligation not to run that risk.

That doesn't mean that every time someone is reckless about consent the other person actually will experience it as a serious violation. They might think "Well, I really wish you wouldn't do that, but it's no big deal". It is also possible that someone might just be a bit confused about what kind of assumptions are reasonable to make, because they just haven't thought things through carefully enough, and that doesn't make them the worst person in the world. So it's not as though every violation of the rule is a serious moral transgression. But it is a legal rule, and it's a good one to follow, and it's not as though following it would be some kind of impossible burden like signing a contract every time you have sex.

But never mind. I don't really want to get into an argument about it with you, so I'll just shut up now and let you have the last word.

ytqclys
03-09-2014, 09:36 PM
Believe me there is nothing I would LOVE better than for dancers to give me straight answers when I ask them questions. But that isn't how it works. With about 80+% of the dancers I've gotten dances from, they did not put their breasts near my face, so I did not try to kiss them. As far as I can see, that is the custom for how this is handled. There have only been two cases in my personal experience when dancers put their breast close to my face but were surprised when I kissed them. Once they told me it was not ok, didn't happen again. Maybe there were others who would rather not have their breasts kissed. But they made a business decision to accept it, for purposes of customer retention. I continue to think that work is when we do things we'd rather not do, in order to have money. But, if Yoda starts mailing me his torn up paychecks, I'll admit I was wrong about that.

drake
03-09-2014, 09:40 PM
Well, if you made a reasonable effort to find out what the dancer was and was not OK with then obviously no-one can blame you.

I am lucky. I am a mathematician. I do things that I love doing in order to have money. But I guess I shouldn't gloat about it.

MarvelGirl
03-10-2014, 05:25 AM
sadly this is the truth. either that or there are a lot more rapists in the world.

There's a huge number of rapists in this world, that's why 1 out of every 6 women will be raped in her lifetime. And that's just rape, not all the many, many cases of sexual assault.

Shoot, there's a rapist in this thread justifying his crimes because someone else did it to him before. As if being sexually assaulted gives you the right to go out and sexually assault others. If that were true, I could go out and rape anybody and everybody and it would be ok. But it's not ok. It's not ok at all and it sickens me that there are people so stupid and self centered that they can't get that through their thick skulls. I hope the next girl he assaults seriously fucking injures him.

tempest666
03-10-2014, 05:27 AM
This is pretty rampant in my city. This is a high enough contact area as is that offering anything further is just ridiculous. I'm very averse to any fluids from my customers coming anywhere near or on me, but saliva especially just really gets me. I also hate it on a personal level in the bedroom, so it squicks me out doubly. Gross. Gross. Gross. You don't know where those titties have been (likely in many other mouths if you're getting away with it) and I don't know where your mouth has been.

One of the dancers I've worked with on here had the idea of putting hand sanitizer or other foul tasting products on her nipples/breasts to deter customers from doing it; I thought it was pretty clever.

In Albuquerque I used to put hot sauce or chili powder on my nips. :D

gocanucks
03-10-2014, 10:59 AM
You know, I understand that we dancers 'should be clearer' and lay down all the rules before we so much as pop off a button. But I've also got to say - that very nearly destroys any sale in my club. What I will and won't do is clear enough- there are goddamn engraved plaques in every dance room reminding customers not to touch - I really fail to see how I can be considered at fault if I don't tell each client, in detail, how to behave beforehand. I tell them no touching. There is a sign that says no touching. That includes boob sucking - yet a lot of my clients seem to think touching with their mouth doesn't count. I don't think I'm at fault for not specifying beforehand that touching with the mouth isn't ok- it seems pretty obvious to me..

No problem with that at all - if you say no touching, or it's plastered there all over the walls, I'd understand. Either way, the custie is still the one 100 percent at fault even if there's no warning or it's not addressed. Sorry to hear it goes down that way for you - I'd understand if I was in a low-contact club, that's what I'm getting (or not getting, in this case).

If I might ask, with the signs up there, is the reason why custies ignore it is because other dancers allow it, or worse, the club says it on the walls, but the host/bouncers promote it? Or just custies who come in with an idea in their head that the $ allows contact even if the club frowns on it? Just trying to understand, as the low-contact clubs are pretty clear and consistent with their message that I've been to.

As an example - we went to this low-medium contact club, where touching was OK, but no mouth/saliva, and nothing below the waist, or nipples. This was on a guy's trip, and there were like 10-12 of us in the club. We had an awesome time - until a "new guy" to the trip not only sucked on a dancer's nipple, he left a small but very visible bite mark. The shitstorm that rained down on him and us was unbelievable - 3 screaming dancers, 2 bouncers putting him in a headlock and tossing him on his ass, and our group being nearly kicked out (we had been there the night before and everyone was following the rules, so we were kept in - but 2-3 waitresses, 4-5 dancers stepped in on our behalf and stopped the 4 other bouncers from escorting us out, and we apologized on his behalf). That guy was the 1st guy ever blacklisted from our guy's trip (he was a douche in other ways too). Clubs like that seem to be pretty good at enforcing this, which is why I ask above....

MarvelGirl
03-10-2014, 11:03 AM
If I might ask, with the signs up there, is the reason why custies ignore it is because other dancers allow it, or worse, the club says it on the walls, but the host/bouncers promote it? Or just custies who come in with an idea in their head that the $ allows contact even if the club frowns on it? Just trying to understand, as the low-contact clubs are pretty clear and consistent with their message that I've been to.

Some guys are just unbelievably fucking stupid. I worked at a club in Vegas that had signs all over the place saying "PROSTITUTION IS ILLEGAL IN VEGAS" and every damn night at least one guy would point at the sign and ask me, "So, how much is it for sex?" I'd say, "You realize that sign says prostitution is illegal, right?" and they'd stare at me stupidly until I explained that illegal means not legal.

Almost Jaded
03-10-2014, 11:06 AM
LMAO - well you just narrowed down your former club to one in particular...

gocanucks
03-10-2014, 11:06 AM
Some guys are just unbelievably fucking stupid. I worked at a club in Vegas that had signs all over the place saying "PROSTITUTION IS ILLEGAL IN VEGAS" and every damn night at least one guy would point at the sign and ask me, "So, how much is it for sex?" I'd say, "You realize that sign says prostitution is illegal, right?" and they'd stare at me stupidly until I explained that illegal means not legal.

Well, we do think with our little heads most of the time we're in SC's. I don't get how it gets to that extreme, but I can't argue that point.

yoda57us
03-10-2014, 12:59 PM
Believe me there is nothing I would LOVE better than for dancers to give me straight answers when I ask them questions. But that isn't how it works. With about 80+% of the dancers I've gotten dances from, they did not put their breasts near my face, so I did not try to kiss them. As far as I can see, that is the custom for how this is handled. There have only been two cases in my personal experience when dancers put their breast close to my face but were surprised when I kissed them. Once they told me it was not ok, didn't happen again. Maybe there were others who would rather not have their breasts kissed.

It sounds like what you are saying here is that you don't give a flying fuck if the dancer is OK with it or not. You are going to go for it and see if you can get away with it. Have dancers actually told you, using verbal communication skills and not your perceived "signaling" system, that it was ok to suck on their tits and then gotten mad when you did it? Lets just dispense with this foolishness of whether they want you to do it or not. They want your money and some are willing to engage in certain activities to get it. The only acceptable method of determining what is on or off the table has been the same since I walked into my first contact club 18 or 20 years ago...you ask.


But, if Yoda starts mailing me his torn up paychecks, I'll admit I was wrong about that.
You're confused. I didn't say that I would do my job for free, I said that I like my job. Your contention is that work is something we don't want to do. It's not the same. Just like assuming you can eat a girl's nipple because it is near your face is not the same as asking first.



As this thread goes on it's becoming more and more obvious to me that the issue has as much to do with just plain old rude and socially inept behavior as it does with wanting to cop a cheap feel. Are the guys who do random boob sucking the same guys who tip poorly, yap on their cell phones in the club and grab the waitresses asses when they walk by?

yoda57us
03-10-2014, 01:05 PM
Actually, there have been a few time when dancers unbuttoned my shirt and kissed or pinched my nipples. Not really my thing, but I knew they had no malicious intentions, so I didn't complain.

So go easy on me, I'm also a victim of sexual assault.


I guess anyone who's ever had sex without one of these is also guilty of sexual assault.

http://dating.lovetoknow.com/Sex_Contracts

Your trying to trivialize what is a very simple issue. If you want to touch a dancers breast in a strip club ask her if it's OK first. Simple.

moosehead
03-10-2014, 03:26 PM
What's all this talk about asking to touch her boobs? I'm sorry, but I don't get it since it usually goes without saying. I'm trying to think of all the people who get dances and how many of them ask before touching. Not many, I'm guessing. I'd be surprised if the number is over 10%.

I remember I asked the first time I got dances because I really didn't know what to expect, but other than that I didn't, and I never got a sense that it was a problem. If she does have a problem with it, then it's up to her to tell you. If she says nothing, then how do I know if there's a problem? If she wants to set some ground rules, then she needs to communicate. It shouldn't be the other way around. Don't get mad at someone for not reading your mind.

If you're a guy who's gotten many dances and if you consistently get a mouthful of titty during those dances, then you would logically come to think that's what a "lap dance" is. It's like me walking into a restaurant and having to ask that my food be cooked.

moosehead
03-10-2014, 03:32 PM
Thinking about all the times I've gotten dances, here are some of the things that have happened: boobs shoved in my face, taking my hand and placing it over your vag, asking me to spank her ass, putting her pussy centimeters from my lips, and so on. You really think I'm going to ask about touching? Use some common sense, people.

Selina M
03-10-2014, 03:46 PM
Last time I checked, a dance was about teasing and getting someone riled up. Putting your boobs in front of their face, regardless of the distance, is the tease aspect, since you are generally NOT supposed to grab them.

Just because it is right in front of you doesn't mean you should just assume you can touch it. Do you go to a museum and touch the artifacts because they're right in front of your face within reach? No. Do you ignore "no touching" signs in a store? No. I fail to understand why such a sign would carry any less weight in the clubs that have them than they do in any other business.

Most of the men in this thread obviously have poor self restraint, a sense of entitlement, and a rapist's attitude. I shouldn't HAVE to tell you not to touch me. You should be grown up enough to ASK first. Just because another girl let you does not mean every girl will.

moosehead
03-10-2014, 03:53 PM
Last time I checked, a dance was about teasing and getting someone riled up. Putting your boobs in front of their face, regardless of the distance, is the tease aspect, since you are generally NOT supposed to grab them.


Sure, I'm not supposed to grab them. Please tell that to those girls who take my hands and put them on their boobs. But yeah, I'm not supposed to grab them. LOL.


I fail to understand why such a sign would carry any less weight in the clubs that have them than they do in any other business.

They carry less weight when the employees don't follow them, especially when they say they'll bribe the bouncers when you bring up said signs.

Vackra
03-10-2014, 04:03 PM
FYI... you can get herpes on your nipples, HSV-1 or HSV-2. Happy sucking. 36743

safado
03-10-2014, 04:09 PM
What's all this talk about asking to touch her boobs? I'm sorry, but I don't get it since it usually goes without saying. I'm trying to think of all the people who get dances and how many of them ask before touching. Not many, I'm guessing. I'd be surprised if the number is over 10%.

I remember I asked the first time I got dances because I really didn't know what to expect, but other than that I didn't, and I never got a sense that it was a problem. If she does have a problem with it, then it's up to her to tell you. If she says nothing, then how do I know if there's a problem? If she wants to set some ground rules, then she needs to communicate. It shouldn't be the other way around. Don't get mad at someone for not reading your mind.

If you're a guy who's gotten many dances and if you consistently get a mouthful of titty during those dances, then you would logically come to think that's what a "lap dance" is. It's like me walking into a restaurant and having to ask that my food be cooked.




Thinking about all the times I've gotten dances, here are some of the things that have happened: boobs shoved in my face, taking my hand and placing it over your vag, asking me to spank her ass, putting her pussy centimeters from my lips, and so on. You really think I'm going to ask about touching? Use some common sense, people.

http://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1512471_tell2520me2520more1_jpgad0513605e8409aa927 73f31dfbc3371

rickdugan
03-10-2014, 04:20 PM
Alright, let's all relax now. There are going to be strong feelings on both sides of the aisle on this topic, all for very good reasons.

The point that guys should not assume that they can grab or suck breasts is well taken. I think we all agree that a dancer should be able to give a simple lapdance without being molested or handled in a way that makes her feel uncomfortable.

What muddies the waters, for some guys, is that breast grabbing and even sucking is not only allowed by some girls, but actually actively encouraged, especially so in higher contact areas. This sometimes leads guys to misinterpret what some other dancers do (breast near face or grazing arm, etc.) as an invitation to do the same to her. Yet at the same time, we also know that some guys are taking more liberties than they should and are using the old "other girls let me do it' as a cover excuse, but of course it can be hard to separate the legitimately confused from the intentionally confused. ;)

Truth be told, there are no easy answers on this one. I keep nodding yes to answers from both sides of the aisle. Yes, guys should not assume anything and should ask before doing AND yes, girls who work in clubs where other girls are allowing this stuff may need to think a little more about body part placement. Because, in all candor, I don't see this changing to a great degree without some changes in the behaviors of people from both sides of the tip rail.

Anyway, just my :twocents: fwiw.

starlily
03-10-2014, 04:42 PM
Yes, both sides are making some valid points so let's compromise. You will assume that you have the right to suck my breasts, and then I will assume I have the right to smash the heel of my palm into your slimy groping man-child lips when you try. :)

I did not know you could get nipple herpes. Now I'm even more creeped out by sucklers, AND even more confused as to why any guy would want to put their mouth there after a hundred other guys have done it.

Tempest, does hot sauce not burn?

Djoser
03-10-2014, 04:47 PM
Yes, guys should not assume anything and should ask before doing AND yes, girls who work in clubs where other girls are allowing this stuff may need to think a little more about body part placement. Because, in all candor, I don't see this changing to a great degree without some changes in the behaviors of people from both sides of the tip rail.

Yeah gotta agree with this. I have had to watch the cameras in several clubs, so I know whom to skip when they are doing VIPs or CRs, and also to make sure the dances stay clean (though if it's busy there isn't time for that). Generally speaking, the dancers have to be watched for pushing the rules, as well as the customers.

You would think the fact a guy is licking up the saliva residue of at least a dozen other guys would be a big deterrent, in the case of the dancers that allow or encourage it, but it doesn't seem to matter at all. Maybe it's the booze.

:D

gocanucks
03-10-2014, 05:05 PM
Four thoughts come to mind:

1. The assumption that if some dancers allow you to touch their V, or suck on their nipples, or whatever, somehow translates that it's expected for ALL dancers unless the dancers says no ahead of time? Are people really going to stick with that argument? Does the same apply with buying dinner for a date and some of them sleep with you afterwards - you expect that by default, you should assume they ALL will unless they tell you differently ahead of time? I didn't think so.
2. On the flip side, dancers, enough of your fellow dancers do allow close contact (touching, kissing, nipple sucking, whatever) that setting ground rules, or being really aware if you don't, is a reality I think you all acknowledge exists nowadays. And yes, it's on the custie who oversteps - but it's your body and mental well-being, so protect them well.
3. Again, the population of custies and dancers who POST here is NOT reflective of the population at large. That's why some dancers allow more contact, and let's face it, extras - which 98 percent of the dancers here don't allow. TOTALLY fine, it's your body, your right. Conversely, many of us custies are asking, and even now, asking for your input.
4. The message isn't as important sometimes as the delivery. Valid points are being made by custies and dancers - but I think some of the responses reflect that delivery matters.

On that note, moose - when you make comments like above:


What's all this talk about asking to touch her boobs? I'm sorry, but I don't get it since it usually goes without saying. I'm trying to think of all the people who get dances and how many of them ask before touching. Not many, I'm guessing. I'd be surprised if the number is over 10%.

I remember I asked the first time I got dances because I really didn't know what to expect, but other than that I didn't, and I never got a sense that it was a problem. If she does have a problem with it, then it's up to her to tell you. If she says nothing, then how do I know if there's a problem? If she wants to set some ground rules, then she needs to communicate. It shouldn't be the other way around. Don't get mad at someone for not reading your mind.

If you're a guy who's gotten many dances and if you consistently get a mouthful of titty during those dances, then you would logically come to think that's what a "lap dance" is. It's like me walking into a restaurant and having to ask that my food be cooked.


Thinking about all the times I've gotten dances, here are some of the things that have happened: boobs shoved in my face, taking my hand and placing it over your vag, asking me to spank her ass, putting her pussy centimeters from my lips, and so on. You really think I'm going to ask about touching? Use some common sense, people.

Combine others like this one in this prior thread - https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?190957-How-often-do-you-approach-customers-b-c-of-physical-attractiveness:



I think we've hit on the real reason why you get avoided by some dancers. /:O

banished avatar
03-10-2014, 06:00 PM
I admit I do the tittie sucking and I've never been turned down. Not bc I'm some stud or that every girl allows it but that its how I escalated to see if she was willing/comfortable. Y'all dancers cando the same. See how he handles a small tease before worrying about how he handles the main course.

ytqclys
03-10-2014, 06:04 PM
In Albuquerque I used to put hot sauce or chili powder on my nips. :D

Did you put your nipples right in front of the custy's mouth?

ytqclys
03-10-2014, 06:10 PM
The flip side of this is, if you ask a dancer if you can do this or that, and $$$ is tight for her, she might agree even though it's something she really dislikes. So that argues in favor of looking for a signal from the dancer as to what's OK. I have tried asking direct questions, generally, it doesn't work. Communication is not straightforward with someone who's goal is to hustle you.

Sabihah
03-10-2014, 07:03 PM
This is exactly the sort of thread that makes me so glad I cam rather than strip. Nothing is going to get shoved into/latched onto my body, regardless of what I decide to show or how closely I want to show it. This thread makes me want to give my brain a bleach bath.

If you've been assaulting strippers, just STOP assaulting strippers. Stop trying to do mental gymnastics to justify what you're doing, and start thinking about whether you're actually okay with hurting women to get your jollies. Regardless of whatever misleading communication you may have had with strippers - or any women at all, for that matter - consent is pretty damn straightforward when you bother to ask for it. "Yes" and "yes, for $xxx" mean exactly what they sound like. Anything else means "no."

ytqclys
03-10-2014, 07:18 PM
Oh please Rick you only go to strip clubs looking for paid sex in hotels.

9 times out of 10 when you ask a stripper a "material" question about what she expects if you go in couch room, it's like friggin' Meet The Press, you get some long, wierd answer that has nothing to do with your question.

yoda57us
03-10-2014, 07:24 PM
Thinking about all the times I've gotten dances, here are some of the things that have happened: boobs shoved in my face, taking my hand and placing it over your vag, asking me to spank her ass, putting her pussy centimeters from my lips, and so on. You really think I'm going to ask about touching? Use some common sense, people.

How about common sense AND common courtesy. You keep talking about all the stuff that dancers do to you. How many years have you been clubbing and in what sort of clubs and in how many different parts of the country? The world? This site has thousands of very experienced members worldwide and the simple reality is that what some will allow you to do others will not and could not even if they wanted to because of the type of clubs that they work in. No one is denying what goes on in some strip clubs and with some dancers.

ytqclys
03-10-2014, 07:25 PM
...
One of the dancers I've worked with on here had the idea of putting hand sanitizer or other foul tasting products on her nipples/breasts to deter customers from doing it; I thought it was pretty clever.

Works for me. Flag yourselves with an industrial chemical odor, won't have to worry about me bothering you then.

yoda57us
03-10-2014, 07:44 PM
I have tried asking direct questions, generally, it doesn't work.

Doesn't work? Because they say no?


Communication is not straightforward with someone who's goal is to hustle you.

I actually agree it can be very frustrating at times but it's still not an excuse for bad behavior on the part of the customer or an assumption that all dancers act the same way towards customers. The old saying applies. Two wrongs don't make a right.

ytqclys
03-10-2014, 07:49 PM
You know, I understand that we dancers 'should be clearer' and lay down all the rules before we so much as pop off a button. But I've also got to say - that very nearly destroys any sale in my club. What I will and won't do is clear enough- there are goddamn engraved plaques in every dance room reminding customers not to touch - I really fail to see how I can be considered at fault if I don't tell each client, in detail, how to behave beforehand. I tell them no touching. There is a sign that says no touching. That includes boob sucking - yet a lot of my clients seem to think touching with their mouth doesn't count. I don't think I'm at fault for not specifying beforehand that touching with the mouth isn't ok- it seems pretty obvious to me..

If it was a posted rule, and it was taken seriously, I would not initiate any violation. But if the posted speed limit is 55, and everyone is going 70, I go 70.

In the clubs I frequent, boob touching is the norm, but there are some dancers who don't allow it, at least not on the first dance. They are generally expecting a try with a new guy, and they intercept my hands before any breach of boob security happens. It always seems like dancers are somehow well aware of what is the norm in their club. Am I being unfair to assume they know what a new custy is probably going to try, and to nip it in the bud if it's not OK with them?

You're pretty much saying the same as what I've been saying, that strippers avoid discussing rules because it queers their hustle. I really resent being lumped in with guys who would willfully commit a sexual assault.

rickdugan
03-10-2014, 09:38 PM
Oh please Rick you only go to strip clubs looking for paid sex in hotels.

9 times out of 10 when you ask a stripper a "material" question about what she expects if you go in couch room, it's like friggin' Meet The Press, you get some long, wierd answer that has nothing to do with your question.

Well, I was about to respond in detail to this, but then I noticed that he was banned. It is clear that with this, along with his increasingly snarky comments aimed at a number of people, that he got caught in a classic spiraling plane - crash and burn flameout. It is too bad as his earlier stuff was not too far off the mark IMHO, but he obviously had trouble adapting to his new environment. :)

If he was here, I met have explained to him that consent could be obtained on the fly with a quietly murmured question in the heat of the moment, but he is not so I will leave it at that. ;)

Vackra
03-10-2014, 11:37 PM
I respect Rick because he is honest about his intentions, and doesn't go about it in a sleazy way. I may not agree with it, but just because it's not for me doesn't mean it's not for someone. Better that than club rapists.

drake
03-11-2014, 01:08 AM
When ytqclys brought up the point about the dancer who touched his nipples without asking first, that made me think of an experience I had in Sydney. In Sydney it is a legal requirement that there should be no touching in a strip club, and I went into a club while thinking of myself as being in a monogamous relationship with a woman who lived in Shanghai, and then one of the girls started rubbing my crotch with her foot without asking my consent. And then I felt bad about it afterwards thinking "Well, I should have said `no, stop doing that', that was mild cheating". So, interesting that there is that asymmetry in the way we think about it, that it's up to me to say "no, stop", even though it's against the law, whereas we don't find it acceptable to say that it's up to a dancer to say "no, stop". But on the other hand, it's a pretty fair point to say that I should have told her to stop, really; it was in fact mild cheating and I am in fact responsible for it. Just an interesting example to think about, I'm not trying to blow it out of proportion or anything. I suppose also the difference is that it wasn't an especially traumatic experience for me, actually I quite enjoyed it, and if I felt mildly guilty about it afterwards then that's my fault for not telling her to stop. But on the other hand I did go into the club on the understanding that such things are not allowed, and I don't have to worry about being tempted to cheat.

rickdugan
03-11-2014, 07:25 AM
I respect Rick because he is honest about his intentions, and doesn't go about it in a sleazy way. I may not agree with it, but just because it's not for me doesn't mean it's not for someone. Better that than club rapists.

Thanks Vackra. I'm not sure why ytqclys felt the need to make gratuitous comments about my side activities, but he is gone now so the question is moot.

I've never been secretive around here about the things that I do. However, OTC p4p is certainly not the sum total of my club activities. If p4p was my only interest, there are far cheaper and more efficient ways of finding it. And while I'll never qualify for the "Humanitarian of the Year" award, I treat each girl who entertain me, in whatever way, with kindness, dignity and respect and have never done anything without full consent. Whatever else one could say about what I do, I've never been sly or pushed a girl's boundaries in the heat of the moment.

But I'm sure that this is more than anyone wants to read about me. This thread is supposed to be about customers sucking breasts and, by the reactions we've seen so far, it is something that is worthy of a discussion without being derailed by side nonsense.

lurkingtitties
03-11-2014, 11:16 AM
I think the relevant points in this thread can be summed up succintly:

1. Consent is key. Unless your dancer takes your hands and puts them somewhere, ask if it's ok first!

2. Moosehead seems to seek out the skankiest clubs, and is unaware that those behaviors aren't the standard everywhere.

3. Dancers being intentionally vague while trying to make a sale is common. (I'm guilty of this too, IMO it kills the mood to give a play by play of what I will do in the LD/VIP room. I'd rather just show you.) But, once you're back there, rule #1 still applies.

I really wish this country had more progressive attitudes about sex education, it would help so much if young teenagers were educated about consent.

yoda57us
03-11-2014, 12:37 PM
I admit I do the tittie sucking and I've never been turned down. Not bc I'm some stud or that every girl allows it but that its how I escalated to see if she was willing/comfortable. Y'all dancers cando the same. See how he handles a small tease before worrying about how he handles the main course.

LOL, this is funny stuff ba. Dancers aren't trying to get a cheap thrill when they tease you or even let you grope them. They are simply trying to keep the money flowing...