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charlotte.
04-14-2014, 12:12 AM
Also, I should have mentioned this earlier, but better late than never. Do you guys really think that 5 years later, when I am 26 years old, I will be too OLD to go back to school for 2 years and finish debt-free with all the savings on my hands? As far as investing goes, I think that investing is always good no matter how old you are and how much you can afford to invest every month, so that's why I even mentioned it. As far as being "set for life", no I don't live under a rock and that's why I know that 5 years of stripping and saving will not set me for life or make me wealthy. I'll still have to work.

to be blunt, yes, I think that going back to school after a 5 yr break might not be doable. sure, if you were going back for something super unprestgious, you could do that. but taking math based classes that are all on a curve against a bunch of 18 year old nerds that literally have no life? my last yr completing my degree was absolute hell and the only reason why I have faith I can do the masters is because I've been self studying and reviewing old stuff. I could not imagine taking a 5 yr break from calculus. I would not last a day and I doubt you would be able to graduate in 2 yrs.

so like I asked before, is all of your lower math done? it's so sequential and if it's not done it'll affect your ability to register for classes you'll need to graduate which means it could take you 3 yrs or more once you do transfer. which could make you not want to transfer at all.

without getting into an argument about investing, I do not think just any investment is a good investment and I think the best investments are stocks or property, it's things like your health, education, and safety net. I don't consider myself an expert at all but I did study econ in undergrad and saw enough textbook as well as real life examples of investments gone wrong, and the majority of them were people who were extremely eager to invest but didn't know anything about it and had no basic safety net. awhile ago all of the financial planners were telling their clients to put their money in money market accounts which were supposed to be safe and basic investments for the newbies and then they all ended up losing big. financial advisors don't know the future and experts on tv are basically weathermen....they make tons of predictions and sometimes they're right but not always.

if you're so gung ho about investing, why not work for 1-2yrs to save for tuition, then finish your degree (while dancing part time) and then you can invest with more knowledge, connections, and possibly certification too (cpa etc). at age 26 you will still be well in your dancing prime. it's a lot easier to maintain a hard body over a few yrs then it is to retain math. trust me.

dezire
04-14-2014, 12:49 AM
^I really don't want to offend any dancers in their late 30s+ on this site, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with dancing in your 40s if it makes you happy (but, like Charlie said the number of women who are happy doing this job for 10+ years is very low). My point is more about the fact that if the OP gets her degree she won't be trapped working in a club because she has no other choice.

Its ok..it is what it is..In life everyone judges..Its true being happy dancing prolly went out the window in my 20s sometime..or may around 30...

Its good that younger dancers see that they want more..They dont want to end up like the older dancers. Its offensive but it is what it is. if i had been better informed in my 20s maybe I wouldve planned differently..My mistake.

I do think if ur going to go to school do it in ur 20s, get started n ur 20s n ur career field and go from there..

dezire
04-14-2014, 12:55 AM
Going back to school after taking 10 years + off is easier said than done as well... Having to give up a lifestyle you're accustomed to, going back to not making as much money and the idea of starting at a salary close to minimum wage when you're in your 30's is difficult... This is the reason why some women stay in the industry even when they're fed up.

.



I completely agree..its an insult to have to start out at the bottom and not be able to make ends meet in order to get out of dancing...Its hard as hell knowing its by ur own doing that ur choosing to exit a job that may not pay phenomenal anymore but still better than full time min wage..

pinkpvc
04-14-2014, 01:36 AM
I've been out of University for 5 years-ish running a business from home, and I am SO out of the loop when it comes to Computing Science. Things change so quickly these days that it is easy to do, so you have to be sure that if you decide to take a break that you keep up to date with the world of finance.
Someone mentioned online courses, you can take free ones at https://www.edx.org run by the likes of MIT and Harvard.

Versalia
04-14-2014, 04:06 AM
I could not imagine taking a 5 yr break from calculus. I would not last a day and I doubt you would be able to graduate in 2 yrs.

so like I asked before, is all of your lower math done? it's so sequential and if it's not done it'll affect your ability to register for classes you'll need to graduate which means it could take you 3 yrs or more once you do transfer. which could make you not want to transfer at all.

without getting into an argument about investing, I do not think just any investment is a good investment and I think the best investments are stocks or property, it's things like your health, education, and safety net. I don't consider myself an expert at all but I did study econ in undergrad and saw enough textbook as well as real life examples of investments gone wrong, and the majority of them were people who were extremely eager to invest but didn't know anything about it and had no basic safety net. awhile ago all of the financial planners were telling their clients to put their money in money market accounts which were supposed to be safe and basic investments for the newbies and then they all ended up losing big. financial advisors don't know the future and experts on tv are basically weathermen....they make tons of predictions and sometimes they're right but not always.

to answer the question, my last semester included the completion of Calc III. How did I do it in 2 years? I took college credit in community college while in high school, so lower math was done way back. Also, I wouldn't judge my abilities by yours. You don't know me, therefore you can't tell me that you doubt I will graduate.

Investing wise, nobody should invest in something they don't understand and just invest by somebody's advice. FYI stocks are highly unpredictable. You should understand the company's specifics, and do tech analysis, you should also paper trade first before investing real money.

Versalia
04-14-2014, 04:13 AM
I completely agree..its an insult to have to start out at the bottom and not be able to make ends meet in order to get out of dancing...Its hard as hell knowing its by ur own doing that ur choosing to exit a job that may not pay phenomenal anymore but still better than full time min wage..
Some women do feel forced to stay in the industry in their 30s and 40s, but I suspect those are the women who in their 20s have lead the "luxury" lifestyles, meaning they spent everything they made, because money was made so easily/fast. If you don't work full time and save, 5-10 years of stripping WILL backfire on you and you will regret. Now, some people may have had kids or other family members they had to take care of and that's where the income went, but that's a completely different topic that I won't get into. This is the last time I'm posting on this thread, because I'm tired of arguing. AGAIN, THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR THEIR INPUT! XX

charlotte.
04-14-2014, 04:47 AM
to answer the question, my last semester included the completion of Calc III. How did I do it in 2 years? I took college credit in community college while in high school, so lower math was done way back. Also, I wouldn't judge my abilities by yours. You don't know me, therefore you can't tell me that you doubt I will graduate.

Investing wise, nobody should invest in something they don't understand and just invest by somebody's advice. FYI stocks are highly unpredictable. You should understand the company's specifics, and do tech analysis, you should also paper trade first before investing real money.

well yeah calc 3 is only 3 semesters of calc so I would assume you could have completed it in 2 yrs lol. but you never know, I've met plenty of girls who think that they want to major in finance or something similar and I don't have the heart to tell them that they will need to take about 6 semesters of calculus before they will even be allowed to take the major specific classes. I still stand by what I say that you should take de, la, and calc based stats asap because your lower math isn't done yet and I know a lot of schools won't allow you to transfer until the big 5 are completed but do whatever...

and thanks for the investing advice lol, um yikes I'm really trying not to be harsh here because we are in such similar positions and back when I was an undergrad I definitely had thoughts of dropping out but posts like this just make you seem really naive which isn't a bad thing, we are all a little naive about various things, I just think that you should proceed with caution and not slam any doors shut. the nice thing about dancing and education is that you can change your mind at any point, it's not like military or having a baby. anyway good luck to you and your goals.

Melonie
04-14-2014, 08:40 AM
by 'pure coincidence' this directly relevant article was just published ...


http://www.oftwominds.com/photos2014/student-loan-income1-14.png

(snip)The entire notion that a college degree "signals" something valuable to employers is breaking down. In the good old days, earning a college degree proved that a student was hard-working and conformist--just what hierarchical corporations and government agencies want in employees. (The "signaling" value of a diploma is based on work by economist Michael Spence in the 1970s. In general, the signal indicates an attribute whose value is correlated with the difficulty and cost of the signal: the harder it is to get a degree, the greater the value of the signal it sends.)

But in an economy in which education credentials are in over-supply, that signaling mechanism is running up against a basic reality: a degree accredits very little about the student's knowledge, problem-solving skills or professionalism. A degree is simply a proxy of knowledge, not evidence of knowledge or useful skills.

Signaling an ability to grind though four or five years of institutional coursework is no longer enough; the signaling needed to indicate an ability to create value must be much richer in information density and more persuasive than a factory model diploma.

A resume is equally thin on information that accredits a worker's knowledge, useful skills and professionalism. A resume is a public-relations summary that everyone knows has been tailored to present the candidate in the best possible light. And precisely how useful and trustworthy is PR in any setting?

Put yourself in the shoes of a hiring manager or potential collaborator: there is precious little useful information in either a diploma or a resume. As a result, human resources departments have been tuned to eliminate as many candidates as possible by signal-based winnowing rather than by the collection of useful information on the skills, knowledge and professionalism of the potential employee/collaborator.

Conforming to social behavioral norms and being able to grind through mind-numbing work used to be enough to create value in the economy--but this is no longer the case for high-value (i.e. well-paid) work. The "signaling" camp holds that a degree showing the student sat through four or five years of classes is sufficient to justify hiring the person. That the student learned essentially nothing useful doesn't matter; the entire value of college is in the last class needed to get the diploma.

This was true in the long postwar boom when the number of well-paid jobs expanded at a faster rate than the number of college graduates. This is simply no longer true.

In contrast to the "signaling" theory of value, the "human capital" camp holds that working knowledge is what creates value. If the student learns little critical thinking, real skills or practical knowledge, then a college degree has little value.

What if conformity and being able to navigate formal systems/bureaucracies no longer creates value or helps people solve real-world problems? In the economy we have, the "signal" value of a college degree has sharply declined. This is why college graduates can send out hundreds of resumes and not even receive a single reply, much less an interview or job offer.(snip)


I would add that this author's position helps explain today's continuing high 'value' of the so called 'H-Bomb' ( Harvard degree ) by prospective employers ... while those same prospective employers assign decreasing 'value' to college degrees obtained from 'lesser' institutions.

For What Its Worth
04-14-2014, 09:00 AM
Turned out, to pay for super expensive school, I have to work 5 days a week

welcome to the real world, lots of people do that....


I've decided to quit school and make as much money as I can stripping and preserve it for the future, so that when I'm thirty I can have a good amount in my bank account

that might seem like a good plan and all, but the chances of it happening are slim unless you do nothing but work and sleep till your 30,

what will you do when your 30 with no career? what would you put on your resume? if the time came where you ever needed another job, how would you explain to future employers what you were doing up until you were 30?

you cant possibly make enough to last your lifetime, and even if you did, you would end up spending it all by the time you hit 40 or 50,

your plan might seem good in theory, or on paper, but reality is quite different,

if you quit school the chances of you ever going back are slim, do you know how many people would love to have the opportunity you have? and your throwing it all away, a horrible decision IMO but good luck

Melonie
04-14-2014, 09:36 AM
that might seem like a good plan and all, but the chances of it happening are slim unless you do nothing but work and sleep till your 30,

what will you do when your 30 with no career? you cant possibly make enough to last your lifetime, and even if you did, you would end up spending it all by the time you hit 40 or 50

Again, nobody seems to want to actually account for 'lost opportunity' cost ... or it's flip side the time value of money.

It is still very possible for a 'top shelf' dancer or camgirl to earn enough money to be able to save $4,000 per month or $48,000 per year, provided she doesn't go crazy on lifestyle, designer clothes, fancy cars, expensive vacations / partying etc. Thus after 10 years worth of serious, full time effort, and a very reasonable 5% average rate of return, with compound interest she will have accumulated $624,000 of investment capital. At a similar 5% average rate of return, that $624k investment 'nest egg' will yield $31,200 in annual 'passive' earnings ... year after year ... forever. With this 'guaranteed' $31,200 of annual 'passive' income available, the 'retired' dancer or camgirl arguably doesn't NEED a 'career'. She can supplement her annual 'passive' income with just about any sort of 'vanilla' job and still have a higher net income than the median earnings level of a 4 year college graduate.

also, thanks to the time value of money, extending that 10 year full time effort at dancing or camming to 12 years raises the size of the resulting investment nest egg to $790,000 ... with a corresponding $39,500 annual 'passive' income level ... year after year ... forever. This is basically the approach I took ... although admittedly I was able to bank investment gains that were higher than the 'conservative' 5% used in these examples.

Please understand that I am not trying to say that a college education isn't valuable. What I AM saying is that the decision NOT to pursue the relatively short peak earnings window that is available to serious professional full time dancers and camgirls will result in a SERIOUS amount of 'lost opportunity' cost !

Versalia
04-14-2014, 11:11 AM
Again, nobody seems to want to actually account for 'lost opportunity' cost ... or it's flip side the time value of money.

It is still very possible for a 'top shelf' dancer or camgirl to earn enough money to be able to save $4,000 per month or $48,000 per year, provided she doesn't go crazy on lifestyle, designer clothes, fancy cars, expensive vacations / partying etc. Thus after 10 years worth of serious, full time effort, and a very reasonable 5% average rate of return, with compound interest she will have accumulated $624,000 of investment capital. At a similar 5% average rate of return, that $624k investment 'nest egg' will yield $31,200 in annual 'passive' earnings ... year after year ... forever. With this 'guaranteed' $31,200 of annual 'passive' income available, the 'retired' dancer or camgirl arguably doesn't NEED a 'career'. She can supplement her annual 'passive' income with just about any sort of 'vanilla' job and still have a higher net income than the median earnings level of a 4 year college graduate.

also, thanks to the time value of money, extending that 10 year full time effort at dancing or camming to 12 years raises the size of the resulting investment nest egg to $790,000 ... with a corresponding $39,500 annual 'passive' income level ... year after year ... forever. This is basically the approach I took ... although admittedly I was able to bank investment gains that were higher than the 'conservative' 5% used in these examples.

Please understand that I am not trying to say that a college education isn't valuable. What I AM saying is that the decision NOT to pursue the relatively short peak earnings window that is available to serious professional full time dancers and camgirls will result in a SERIOUS amount of 'lost opportunity' cost !
Thank you for breaking down the math!

kaninchen
04-14-2014, 11:43 AM
Please understand that I am not trying to say that a college education isn't valuable. What I AM saying is that the decision NOT to pursue the relatively short peak earnings window that is available to serious professional full time dancers and camgirls will result in a SERIOUS amount of 'lost opportunity' cost !

UGH, I've wrestled with this conundrum so much. I started dancing and going to school two years ago, and initially I was so torn! I worried that maybe I would be better off dancing full time, investing my money, and putting school on hold until I'm 35 or something. However, I realized that since tuition prices are only ever going to go up, that it's best to get the degree out of the way. I have a year left until I get my stupid piece of paper -- the coveted liberal arts diploma -- and after that I plan on dancing and investing. Hopefully also padding my resume with internships and the other assorted fluffy jobs that are available to recent grads. I should add that I'm really happy to be able to graduate 100% debt free, too!

I wouldn't want to gamble with just dancing now and potentially needing the degree later, and lose by no longer having the income or the energy to successfully work my way through school.

Sophia_Starina
04-14-2014, 11:53 AM
-I've decided to quit school and make as much money as I can stripping and preserve it for the future, so that when I'm thirty I can have a good amount in my bank account.
-I realized I don't want to work on Wall Street because of all the assholes I met who work there.
-Also, watching my friends getting into ton of debt, graduating and making soooo much less that I do right now, completely discouraged me from getting a degree.
------ any thoughts anybody?

So.... this isn't really a question even though the title says "School or Stripping?"

What thoughts can I offer besides "good for you"....?

Here is the deal, Versalia... You can have both. If you're up for it, you can work for a few years, save money, and pursue your degree, debt free. You can also transfer to a cheaper school and revisit the Ivy for your Master's/MBA.

You are missing some key points:
. Even though your friends are initially making less than you expect them to make, their trajectory comes with promotions and raises as they rise up in seniority and gain meaningful experience. It's an upward slope as opposed to our lot... where age, time, the economy and exhaustion result in burnout ....and often times fewer dollars at the end of the night as time goes by. Clubs change, management changes, customers change (a.k.a. get cheap)... etc.
. You've already put in two years of effort at a notable university. You're 50% of the way done with your degree. You only have to put in 2 more years to get that snazzy piece of paper that works like an insurance policy in this wacky lil' society we have going.
. Stripping isn't exactly peaches and sunshine 8 or 9+ more years down the line. Take it from an NYC gal... it takes a lot to walk in and feign enthusiasm when those ubiquitous douchey wall st. guys come in and make it rain (not dollars but...) migraine after migraine.
. It really depends on your philosophies/personality... I know many phenomenal women who opted out of college to pursue stripping as a career. They are successful, motivated, and well off because they diversified their repertoire... many are business owners, artists, consultants, models, and realtors. It isn't hinged upon their education (or the brand name of the school, like, at all) but aside from the monetary investment, there are no negatives to getting a degree from a respected school.
. You have the luxury of taking your time to decide what is right for you. I think you'll get plenty of approval either way. I simply suggest that you don't make a rash decision. You can take a year or more off in college and return to complete what you've already started without a problem.


Consider keeping the door open on this choice.

charlie61
04-14-2014, 11:55 AM
There is no wrong answer here. Any decision comes with a different set of repercussions; as long as you're aware of them and willing to live with the challenges you'll encounter, you'll be fine.

It seems that this discussion has run its course.

Melonie
04-14-2014, 02:04 PM
^^^ just one more point if I may ...


Even though your friends are initially making less than you expect them to make, their trajectory comes with promotions and raises as they rise up in seniority and gain meaningful experience. It's an upward slope as opposed to our lot

True that this has been the case historically speaking. However, with the growth in H1-B visa foreign graduate hiring, the growth in hiring semi-legal but lower net cost 'dreamer' graduates, with rapidly rising health care costs to employers as employees get older, etc., the emerging 'new normal' seems to be a low initial pay rate, followed by a few years worth of regular pay raises after initial hiring, followed by a 'plateau' of a couple of decades worth of ( rigged ) COLA based pay raises, followed by employers looking for a plausibly deniable excuse to side-track or discharge 'maturing' workers before they reach the 'third rail' age of 55 ( at which point age discrimination lawsuits gain traction ).

Granted that 'top performers' in the private sector may see frequent promotions, bonuses, stock options, etc. But these are increasingly 'individual merit' based, as opposed to the 'seniority' based system which had historically been the case.

Granted that public sector workers still operate under a 'seniority' based system, but ... public sector workers are increasingly facing alternate labor cost saving actions that don't violate union contracts. Examples are conversion to 28 hour per week part-time employment with associated shrinking paychecks and loss of full time benefits, upward workload creep at the same pay rate as co-workers lost to attrition are not replaced thus remaining workers are expected to 'pick up the slack', etc.

My basic point is that, under the 'new normal', the standard stock and bond disclaimer must now be applied to worker salaries and employment trends as well. 'Past performance is no guarantee of future results'.

And even if the upward trajectory is maintained through a 40 year 'straight' career, it still remains to be seen whether or not the ( inflation adjusted ) total dollars earned by the college graduate ( less tuition costs ) is greater than the ( inflation adjusted ) direct plus 'passive' investment earnings of the 'retired' full time dancer or camgirl.

dezire
04-14-2014, 03:05 PM
OP I wish u the best of luck...U know the consequences of putting off school and u should go for it instead of putting it off..Good luck..I think everyone here is just trying to help..Everyone is coming from a different point of view..That is the joy of SW..U ask and ur going to get all kinds of different opinions :)

charlotte.
04-14-2014, 03:37 PM
I'd just like to add that you're much more likely to have a huge nest egg working 2 yrs doing multiple jobs in the adult industry than 10 yrs just stripping. if I knew I didn't want to go to school, have a normal job, and just invest and start my own business I would do porn, use that porn, use that porn to build a fan base via camming, start my own site with clips and porn videos that I own the rights to to sell (passive income), continue dancing at the same time and use your porn star status to elevate your club status (porn stars get special treatment in lv) as well as escorting and hope to build yourself up enough to join the lucrative feature dance circuit where clubs will pay for travel and 3-10k for the weekends worth of performances where you can also make bank escorting and selling your stuff at the club. there's a website (I forget where) dedicated to contact info of feature dancers that also escort, they all charge 1-3k/hr.

my friend is doing this and just bought a million dollar property. she's really young and not even famous but she works really hard. you could easily save 500k in 2 years if you work your ass off.

lynn2009
04-14-2014, 03:42 PM
Idk if this applies to the OP but in general...college should not be a straight economic decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_N7MAr98CI

Sexy_Jenny
04-14-2014, 09:10 PM
OP, you should ask yourself if a job in finance is your dream job. If it is, go to school and don't contemplate full time dancing. Debt will be paid off.
If its not your dream job, find what is. It might be something you dont need an Ivy degree for or might be something you need a professional training for, eg real estate license. We are all more or less taught that to be successful you need to be a doctor or a lawyer, that degrees in finance, econ and engineering will guarantee success. To me, if you do what you love and get paid for it, that's success. I study what I absolutely love, even though it will will not make me bank when I graduate. I'm fine with it though. Ask yourself how do you see yourself in ten years and pursue that vision. Remember:"pick a job you love and you will never have to work a day in your life".

GlamourRouge
04-14-2014, 11:19 PM
I'd just like to add that you're much more likely to have a huge nest egg working 2 yrs doing multiple jobs in the adult industry than 10 yrs just stripping.

Bingo. IMO, only dancing or only camming because you want to save the most & maximize your income, is not a smart thing to do at all. They are lucrative compared to the average job, especially given the benefits (of making your own schedule, being your own boss, etc) without the cost and time investment of schooling, but those are not the most lucrative areas these days in the adult world IMO.

I wouldn't even say porn is worth it anymore either unless a.) you genuinely really enjoy it, b.) you know what you are doing & have your niche planned, and c.) you are above average in both the face and the body. Otherwise you just wouldn't book work. But if you pass that test, I would think its absolutely worth it just for the promotion you get to go on and do other things. Escorting, sugar daddies, rich contacts, meeting rich men to marry/seriously date... Or even more solid vanilla careers like DJing, fashion, and all things entrepreneurship. Definitely worth it IMO. That is where I would think you'd maximize cash. Not stripping or camming, although those are still good jobs IMO, but not if you want like over 150k per year or want to rapidly stockpile cash for a few years.

For What Its Worth
04-15-2014, 07:26 AM
With this 'guaranteed' $31,200 of annual 'passive' income available, the 'retired' dancer or camgirl arguably doesn't NEED a 'career'.

once again,

that might sound really good and all on paper and in theory, but do you really think a retired dancer would be able to budget herself and only spend 30 grand a year for the rest of her life?.....not very likely

also, (in my opinion anyway) this is a dying industry, you would have to make a constant steady income to achieve your plan, who knows what the future holds 4-5 years down the road,

you would also need money for unexpected things, loss of employment, personal injuries, accidents, medical bills, or heaven forbid, lawsuits

Sexy_Jenny
04-15-2014, 07:34 AM
Escorting, sugar daddies, rich contacts, meeting rich men to marry/seriously date... Or even more solid vanilla careers like DJing, fashion, and all things entrepreneurship. Definitely worth it IMO. That is where I would think you'd maximize cash. Not stripping or camming, although those are still good jobs IMO, but not if you want like over 150k per year or want to rapidly stockpile cash for a few years.

Escorting is prostituting isn't it? That's just slippery slope in my opinion....... That's illegal! I would never marry/seriously date a rich man I met at the club, camming or doing porn. First of all, he's a perv, second, he'll never treat you the same for your past.

simone87
04-15-2014, 11:15 AM
^ not all men that go to clubs, look at cam models, etc are "pervs". jesus christ..

For What Its Worth
04-15-2014, 11:18 AM
First of all, he's a perv

i don't think its fair to say all guys who go to strip clubs are pervs,

kinda like saying all strippers are sl*ts, how would you like that?

GlamourRouge
04-15-2014, 11:22 AM
Escorting is prostituting isn't it? That's just slippery slope in my opinion....... That's illegal! I would never marry/seriously date a rich man I met at the club, camming or doing porn. First of all, he's a perv, second, he'll never treat you the same for your past.

Escorting isn't the only option. And what about sugar daddies? I know that girls in LA are really big on freestyling rich men. Where they "date" or "hook up" with a few massively wealthy men who give them more than they could ever make in a strip club, with just a few hours of "work" per week versus like 30+ hours you'd spend in a strip club hustling hard for less money. These girls don't have websites, they don't necessarily screen, and there is absolutely no record of anything having to do with escorting associated with them. There is 0 chance of a bust. And honestly, this is what every single wealthy woman did in the 1950s and before since women couldn't work. Only she married the guy, and her family or friends set them up lol.

Second, yeah, men you meet in strip clubs tend to be dommes, but not all. Sub guys are nice. Quiet guys are nice. Fetishists are nice. Find a nice man whose wealthy, that you have his fetish, and he will be more generous than you ever thought possible. Its not so black and white. I've seen this with my own eyes.



^ not all men that go to clubs, look at cam models, etc are "pervs". jesus christ..

IA. When I was a dancer, my home club was a pinup/rock/gothy kind of club and my best customers were always very kind fetishists or nerdy guys into sci-fi. They were subbie.

Calling someone a "perv" is like telling someone they are a food addict. These are biological functions ingrained in us in order to survive...

Sexy_Jenny
04-15-2014, 11:41 AM
Escorting isn't the only option. And what about sugar daddies? I know that girls in LA are really big on freestyling rich men. Where they "date" or "hook up" with a few massively wealthy men who give them more than they could ever make in a strip club, with just a few hours of "work" per week versus like 30+ hours you'd spend in a strip club hustling hard for less money. These girls don't have websites, they don't necessarily screen, and there is absolutely no record of anything having to do with escorting associated with them. There is 0 chance of a bust. And honestly, this is what every single wealthy woman did in the 1950s and before since women couldn't work. Only she married the guy, and her family or friends set them up lol.


Calling someone a "perv" is like telling someone they are a food addict. These are biological functions ingrained in us in order to survive...

Hoping to find a sugar daddy that will supply you with a big income for 5 years is the dummest thing in the world. Sure, it happens for some girls, but how many are there on the prowl creating you a competition? Sugar daddies like to change their sugar babies like gloves, because ther's an endless supply of those and all are young and beautiful and money hungry.

Secondly, finding a man and satisfy his fettish hoping he'll supply you with money IS prostitution. It's just a different form of it. If you were talking love that would be different, but you are not talking about love.

Thirdly, this is not 50s. Women can work and men know that. Finding a rich hubby who will supply you with unlimited wealth for your lifetime is a dream many girls still have. Some even get it. How many don't though?

P.S. There's a difference between food addiction and eating "to survive", as well as there's a difference between having sex in the relationship or casually for fun and being addicted to cam girls, strip clubs and porn.

Melonie
04-15-2014, 11:42 AM
that might sound really good and all on paper and in theory, but do you really think a retired dancer would be able to budget herself and only spend 30 grand a year for the rest of her life?.....not very likely

What I actually posted was that, with an additional $30k per year of passive income available, a 'retired' dancer can afford to accept a $20-$30k per year 'straight' job and still maintain a decent lifestyle ( on the combined $50-60k income ... actually $40-50k after taxes ). This is not the case for a college graduate with zero passive income, earning ~$40k per year ( actually ~$35k after taxes ), but who is also forced to pay ~$5k of that back to the gov't to cover student loan payments for the next 20 years !!!

For What Its Worth
04-15-2014, 11:50 AM
What I actually posted was that, with an additional $30k per year of passive income available, a 'retired' dancer can afford to accept a $20-$30k per year 'straight' job and still maintain a decent lifestyle

and you really think a retired dancer is going to take a minimum wage job to supplement her savings?

audrey_k
04-15-2014, 12:10 PM
^Exactly... I don't understand what the plus is in this argument? You dance and put up with assholes every night but don't get to enjoy the luxury lifestyle that goes along with it, then you quit and work a shitty boring minimum wage job to supplement you savings? I would rather just go to college and get a job that I actually enjoy...

Also, if you're taking 20 years of pay off your degree, you are doing it HELLA slow so it really shouldn't be much of a stressor! If I were to throw myself into dancing full time I know I could pay off what I owe in the next year, I just don't want to do that.

Versalia
04-15-2014, 12:16 PM
and you really think a retired dancer is going to take a minimum wage job to supplement her savings?

If you could get outside of the box for a moment, you would realize that there's more things that you could do with you life other than working for corporate world (be it minimum wage or maximum). People can start their own businesses, online and/or offline or become specialized in areas that don't require schooling. And maybe that same dancer that works her ass off dancing is also building an online business that will bring her a good income by the time she is done dancing. And maybe that same dancer also is working to gain business contacts, knowledge and MONEY! to start her offline business once she's done dancing. Maybe she doesn't think it's all black and white. maybe, maybe.......

charlie61
04-15-2014, 12:29 PM
This thread seems to have run its course. It's gettin' heated up in herr.

OP - please let us know if you have any additional questions, or even updates! :)

Versalia
04-15-2014, 12:31 PM
I would rather just go to college and get a job that I actually enjoy...


See? The job that you actually enjoy! good for you! If only I enjoyed finance, I would never give it a second thought, but since I hate it....... I thought of studying for other major, but finance seems to be the only one worth the debt, unless you are doing medical, which I won't do

audrey_k
04-15-2014, 12:37 PM
You really think the only two things worth getting a degree in are finance and medical? /:O

Versalia
04-15-2014, 12:39 PM
This thread seems to have run its course. It's gettin' heated up in herr.

OP - please let us know if you have any additional questions, or even updates! :)
I do. The reason I started this thread is because I am SUPER DUPER confused. I am so totally sure that finance degree is worth the debt because jobs in investment banking pay 200-300K per year, BUT I am also sure that I hate finance.... The thought of working in it, no matter how much money for the next 30 years just makes me sick, especially if we are talking 80 hour work week. My other option is to strip and save. I don't know what people earn on here but personally I am capable of saving 400-600K in 5-6 years after taxes and living expenses. With that money I wasn't looking to get a minimum wage job, hell no. I was trying to open a business spending maybe fourth of my savings on startup costs (and for that business I am laying some groundwork now) and the rest investing for compound return. But people on here call me naive (in other words stupid) for trying to pursue the second option.

Versalia
04-15-2014, 12:42 PM
You really think the only two things worth getting a degree in are finance and medical? /:O

I said those are worth getting into ton of debt because the jobs you can get with those degrees are high paying. If someone feels they want to become an English teacher and they study English in school, its totally worth pursuing that degree. Is English degree worth $200K in debt? I don't think so.....

audrey_k
04-15-2014, 12:49 PM
I think the fact that you see EVERY degree as being 200k is part of the issue here (weren't you the one just talking about black and white?). My degree is worth 200k, but I did I pay that? Fuck no, I got a ton of it knocked off with scholarships, grants and financial aid and graduated with 35k in debt (my parents put 15k towards the degree when I was in school, so my degree cost me around 50k). When I was applying to schools there were definitely some that offered me less scholarships, less financial aid, shitty loans-- there was one university that I was really interested in doing to, but they wouldn't give me any money and it would have been 250k for the degree so I turned it down. There's no reason you have to go with the insanely expensive degree. My university has been in the top 20 of the USA for decades and I was still able to get a good deal, so it's not like it's even a question of a cheap, low-tier university or an expensive, high tier university.

Versalia
04-15-2014, 12:56 PM
I think the fact that you see EVERY degree as being 200k is part of the issue here (weren't you the one just talking about black and white?). My degree is worth 200k, but I did I pay that? Fuck no, I got a ton of it knocked off with scholarships, grants and financial aid and graduated with 35k in debt (my parents put 15k towards the degree when I was in school, so my degree cost me around 50k). When I was applying to schools there were definitely some that offered me less scholarships, less financial aid, shitty loans-- there was one university that I was really interested in doing to, but they wouldn't give me any money and it would have been 250k for the degree so I turned it down. There's no reason you have to go with the insanely expensive degree. My university has been in the top 20 of the USA for decades and I was still able to get a good deal, so it's not like it's even a question of a cheap, low-tier university or an expensive, high tier university.

Ideally, i would have studied fine arts or french no matter in which university, I just love those subjects. There's no jobs in those areas and if there are, they are close to being minimum wage jobs. Getting into Ivy League and finishing it with finance degree does give me a whole lot of job security, but 0 enjoyment. I however am dare to want both--money and enjoyment. And that's the issue. The whole issue, not just a part.

Versalia
04-15-2014, 12:59 PM
There's no reason you have to go with the insanely expensive degree.

If you want to break into investment banking in particular, you absolutely have to go to a top-tier Ivy league school. If you get a finance degree from a state school, you will be paid much less and the competition to land a good high-paying position will be stiff.

charlie61
04-15-2014, 01:06 PM
I do. The reason I started this thread is because I am SUPER DUPER confused. I am so totally sure that finance degree is worth the debt because jobs in investment banking pay 200-300K per year, BUT I am also sure that I hate finance.... The thought of working in it, no matter how much money for the next 30 years just makes me sick, especially if we are talking 80 hour work week. My other option is to strip and save. I don't know what people earn on here but personally I am capable of saving 400-600K in 5-6 years after taxes and living expenses. With that money I wasn't looking to get a minimum wage job, hell no. I was trying to open a business spending maybe fourth of my savings on startup costs (and for that business I am laying some groundwork now) and the rest investing for compound return. But people on here call me naive (in other words stupid) for trying to pursue the second option.

I understand. As long as you spend the next few years not only dancing but also doing quite a bit of soul searching, you'll be fine. With the kind of working you're planning on doing, I'm worried you might not have the time or mental energy to explore options aside from dancing. That's the pitfall I see. But you can always take time to think after you've finished dancing (assuming you ever want to finish, which you might not).

I am a bit floored that you're confident about making $400-600,000 after only a few years of dancing. I'm not doubting you. It just blows my mind that you'll be paying $120,000-$180,000 in taxes alone + living expenses ($20,000/year minimum). That means you'll actually have to make $620,000 in five years to net $400,000. I can't imagine working that often or that intensely...I'd burn out in a week!

Reminds me of Zin's thread: https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?142434-500K

audrey_k
04-15-2014, 01:07 PM
If your long-term goal is to write papers/do research in that area and also teach university, there are lots of jobs available if you're dedicated and smart, (especially in an area like French) which if you got into an Ivy League university already I'm sure you are. Sure, you're not going to make 200k a year, but being a professor and doing research is a great job because you have INSANE job security (you could fuck your students and run around naked and probably still not get fired if you had tenure) and amazing benefits, plus if you have kids then they can attend your university for free.... plus, once you get your BA you wouldn't even have to really pay for the rest, since most universities will let you pay off a Phd by being a TA (one of the jobs I worked at university was writing letters to Phd students informing them of their TA positions, and at my university the school paid 75% of their tuition and gave them an additional 10-20gs a semester to live off of in return for TA-ing one semester a week, and that's pretty average).

And, there's no reason you have to totally drop dancing during the next ten years anyway. You can always that as a supplement to get some extra $$.

I know this sounds cheesy, but what I have learned thus far in my life is that working a job that does not fulfill you or make you happy but pays $$$$ is NOT worth it in the long run, money does not make you happy. You may find yourself a much happier person making 80k a year teaching and researching than making 200k a year doing something that you dislike and get no fulfillment from.

audrey_k
04-15-2014, 01:09 PM
If you want to break into investment banking in particular, you absolutely have to go to a top-tier Ivy league school. If you get a finance degree from a state school, you will be paid much less and the competition to land a good high-paying position will be stiff.

Did you not read my whole post? I'm not arguing going to a state school in at all, I did NOT go to a state school...

GlamourRouge
04-15-2014, 02:17 PM
Hoping to find a sugar daddy that will supply you with a big income for 5 years is the dummest thing in the world. Sure, it happens for some girls, but how many are there on the prowl creating you a competition? Sugar daddies like to change their sugar babies like gloves, because ther's an endless supply of those and all are young and beautiful and money hungry.

Secondly, finding a man and satisfy his fettish hoping he'll supply you with money IS prostitution. It's just a different form of it. If you were talking love that would be different, but you are not talking about love.

Thirdly, this is not 50s. Women can work and men know that. Finding a rich hubby who will supply you with unlimited wealth for your lifetime is a dream many girls still have. Some even get it. How many don't though?

P.S. There's a difference between food addiction and eating "to survive", as well as there's a difference between having sex in the relationship or casually for fun and being addicted to cam girls, strip clubs and porn.

I never said any of that lol. You can get new SDs, you can work side jobs and pursue other passions. That's like saying "Hoping to dance for 5 years and save a bunch of money is the dumbest thing in the world." No, its just another egg in a large basket.



You really think the only two things worth getting a degree in are finance and medical? /:O

lol IA. Anything is a gamble. If you don't intern, make a bunch of contacts, and get lucky, no degree is worth it. If you're good at something and have a plan of action, anything can be lucrative TBH. Not just finance or medical. I've actually heard both of those industries have cut down significantly on new hires.



Ideally, i would have studied fine arts or french no matter in which university, I just love those subjects. There's no jobs in those areas and if there are, they are close to being minimum wage jobs. Getting into Ivy League and finishing it with finance degree does give me a whole lot of job security, but 0 enjoyment. I however am dare to want both--money and enjoyment. And that's the issue. The whole issue, not just a part.

Your degree isn't your meal ticket or the industry you HAVE to work in. Plenty of people major in things like philosophy, psychology, or something in the arts, and then maybe minor in business or finance or whatever, and get actual intern experience in their field of choice (business, finance, etc etc whatever) and then get hired in that area. An employer won't be like "OMG NOPE, NOT HIRING YOU, YOU MAJORED IN FRENCH." If anything, that would set you apart.



I know this sounds cheesy, but what I have learned thus far in my life is that working a job that does not fulfill you or make you happy but pays $$$$ is NOT worth it in the long run, money does not make you happy. You may find yourself a much happier person making 80k a year teaching and researching than making 200k a year doing something that you dislike and get no fulfillment from.

Totally agree.

Versalia
04-15-2014, 02:58 PM
Your degree isn't your meal ticket or the industry you HAVE to work in.

.

I think Audrey gave me a good break down on that one.

Melonie
04-15-2014, 03:26 PM
and you really think a retired dancer is going to take a minimum wage job to supplement her savings?

obviously not.


Ideally, i would have studied fine arts or french no matter in which university, I just love those subjects. There's no jobs in those areas and if there are, they are close to being minimum wage jobs.

This was my point. A 28 hour per week part-time position as an 'adjunct professor' in French is likely to pay something in the $20-30k per year range. In combination with another $30k per year in passive earnings derived from dancing funded investments, this is a practical option for a 'retired' dancer who happens to love French. It is not a practical option for a recent graduate who has zero additional passive earnings who is also free of student loan debt, and especially not practical if $5k per year in student loan payments must be made.

charlotte.
04-15-2014, 03:30 PM
also a finance degree (as well as any degree that requires that amount of math) can easily push you into other industries, not to mention finance jobs themselves are incredibly diverse. if you hadn't taken the math that you had and graduated in French and decided in a few yrs you were really interested in a masters in psych, anything medical, city planning, computer science, just to name a few, you'd have to take some undergrad classes before beginning your masters. but with all the math completed (especially calc based stats-it will help in almost every field and just the class itself is a huge boost to your resume) you can jump into the program and spend more time interning which will lead to a higher paying starting job.

I guess I'm not so much about "getting a degree no matter what" as I am about continuing education both on your own as well as in a somewhat formal setting. in accredited class would be best (because you would get the units if you ever wanted to graduate) but even watching free lectures online would help somewhat (tho quizzes, tests, and papers help more). the best investment you could make at this time for your future and possible future business would be a $500 class in marketing, real estate, math, econ, psych, or law.

shanna dior
04-16-2014, 01:37 PM
Ideally, i would have studied fine arts or french no matter in which university, I just love those subjects. There's no jobs in those areas and if there are, they are close to being minimum wage jobs. Getting into Ivy League and finishing it with finance degree does give me a whole lot of job security, but 0 enjoyment. I however am dare to want both--money and enjoyment. And that's the issue. The whole issue, not just a part.

I'm not even sure if you're looking for ideas on other fields worth exploring, but I was totally in your shoes in terms of wanting to study fine arts or a language but realizing that it's not lucrative, and then I found communications. You can do a lot of artistic work in that field, especially if you learn graphic design, other languages are often assets, and there is definitely money in the growing field -- there are also lots of opportunities to do your own thing as a freelancer, consultant, or even one woman agency once you get some experience or a good portfolio under your belt. Just throwing it out there as a suggestion!

Melonie
04-18-2014, 04:08 AM
You really think the only two things worth getting a degree in are finance and medical


I said those are worth getting into ton of debt because the jobs you can get with those degrees are high paying

I would add that the assurance of a medical degree providing future earnings potential that will greatly exceed the cost of the 'investment' of time and tuition is no longer the 'sure thing' that it was 10-20 years ago. I won't elaborate on the reasons beyond pointing out that, as opposed to 'free market' forces driving past medical professional income potential / pay rates, 'fully regulated' reimbursement rates for particular medical services now comprise a large and increasing component of the earnings / pay rate equation for medical professionals.

In regard to a degree in finance, Business Insider just published a new video at ... where they have actually done the research and subsequent math to determine the current economics behind obtaining an MBA ...

(snip)Business school requires a huge investment of time and money. But does it pay off?

For this analysis we considered top-tier schools to be those ranked in the top 10 U.S. programs by any of the following organizations: U.S. News, Bloomberg, or The Economist. Salary and break-even data is based on information collected by Forbes.(snip)


I would add that the Business Investor analysis STARTS at the point where the potential MBA candidate has already obtained ( and paid for, in terms of both tuition cost and lost opportunity cost ) the pre-requisite bachelor's degree. Findings indicate that, in 'gross' financial terms, going the extra step to obtain an MBA from a top tier school offers a 4 year 'payback on investment'.

However, the 'gross' comparison which resulted in a 4 year 'break-even' point overlooks a number of important factors. For example, the comparison looks at a ~$120k MBA salary + signing bonus, versus an ~$70k bachelor's degree salary, without regard to the fact that progressive US income tax rates will significantly reduce the 'net' difference in after-tax incomes actually available to offset the cost of obtaining the MBA. The comparison also neglects the 'passive' earnings which would have been possible had the MBA tuition money been invested rather than spent ( or the flip side, additional student loan debt and interest payments ), which further reduces the 'net' difference. However, even with these 'real world' factors also taken into account, a top tier MBA will definitely 'pay for itself' within 6-7 years.

Unfortunately, the Business Insider study does not look at a comprehensive analysis with the starting point wound all the way back to include the tuition costs and lost opportunity costs involved to also obtain the pre-requisite bachelor's degree. However, it is a certainty that the entire equation still has a 'positive' payback on investment given the expected $120k+ per year income potential of a top tier MBA graduate ... albeit that the overall 'break even' point may be pushed out to 10+ years. Obviously, master's degrees in other fields are not likely to equal this sort of expected income level. And, just as obviously, the lower the expected income level, the less likely the overall educational 'investment' will actually result in a 'positive' payback !

Melonie
04-22-2014, 12:11 PM
Yet another new wrinkle regarding the future consequences of obtaining a college degree via large amounts of gov't backed student loan debt ... from

Before posting the snippet, for full understanding I should probably point out that a significant number of gov't backed student loan funded college graduates are already counting on NEVER repaying that student loan debt in full. This is 100% legal and possible due to several gov't sponsored 'mitigation' programs. One such program is the forgiveness of any remaining student loan debt after being employed by the gov't for 10 years ... i.e. teachers, social workers etc. A similar student loan debt forgiveness program erases remaining student loan debt for any borrower after 20 years. Yet another student loan debt mitigation program provides for 'means tested' monthly student loan payment caps ... which limit monthly student loan payment amounts to ten percent of the graduate's ACTUAL income, which can in turn extend the actual student loan repayment period to 100+ years ( with the borrower dying of old age well before the student loan is fully repaid ).

At any rate, due to recent events, a big change may be in the works ...


(snip)Flood Of Students Demanding Loan Forgiveness Forces Administration Scramble ***

And it seems they are ripe for abuse...


"Income-based repayment can be a way for students responsibly to manage debt, but it should not be a bailout for students who borrow too much or for schools who charge too much," said Sen. Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, the ranking Republican on the Senate Education Committee.

But, as usual, the government screwed up...


The plans' long-term costs have greatly outpaced the government's predictions. In the last fiscal year, debt absorbed by the repayment plans from the most widely used student-loan program—Stafford loans—exceeded government expectations from a year earlier by 90%.


A report Monday last week from the Brookings Institution, a centrist think tank, offered one of the few preliminary examinations of the programs' impact. The most popular plan could cost taxpayers $14 billion a year if it becomes available to all borrowers as Mr. Obama has proposed, while fueling tuition inflation, it said.

"Loan forgiveness creates incentives for students to borrow too much to attend college, potentially contributing to rising college prices for everyone," the study said. The authors recommend scrapping the forgiveness provisions.

Sure enough everyone piled in looking for their handout...


Enrollment in the plans—which allow students to rack up big debts and then forgive the unpaid balance after a set period—has surged nearly 40% in just six months, to include at least 1.3 million Americans owing around $72 billion, U.S. Education Department records show.


Which means costs are soaring and the administration feels the need to do something to fix what it had broken by intervening once again...


The Obama administration has proposed in its latest budget released last month to cap debt eligible for forgiveness at $57,500 per student. There is currently no limit on such debt.

The move reflects concerns in the administration not just about the hit to the government, but over the risk that promising huge debt forgiveness could make borrowers and schools less disciplined about costs. Colleges might charge more than they would otherwise, leading students to borrow more.

And so is the government about to pop the student loan bubble by spoiling a good thing - unlimited debt forgiveness - for students and trickling down that credit tightening impact on colleges only too happy to raise tuition costs to reflect the credit-forgiveness-adjusted amount of money on the table?


For JD's ... who now carry an average of $128k worth of student loan debt, for MD's ... who now carry an average of $135k worth of student loan debt, and for many others who have managed to rack up $100k+ in student loan debt obtaining other post-grad degrees, degrees from 'prestigious' but expensive colleges, etc., this proposed $57,500 lifetime limit on total student debt foregiveness is likely to come as a rude ( and expensive ) awakening.

And, unfortunately for those who have already obtained their degree via running up huge gov't backed student loan debt, and who have been diligently accumulating the years of service necessary to apply for student loan debt forgiveness under the existing gov't 'mitigation' programs in full expectation that much of their student loan debt would be forgiven, this proposed change to a lifetime $57,500 student loan debt forgiveness cap is almost certainly going to be applied to them as well.

Vamp
04-22-2014, 01:01 PM
This idea that it doesnt matter what kind of degree you get, isnt accurate in my opinion.
You would be shocked how many people I have trained to be bank tellers who had bachelors degrees in psychology.
One girl had her degree from Michigan University and alot of student loan debt. She had very limited options.

I agree with Melonie, there are some degrees that only matter if you have a graduate degree.
There are some associate degrees that will carry you further then you realize as well.
It also depends on where you live. Some states require more certification for professions ie CPAs, Nurses, etc then others.

My suggestion to you is this ....

1. Do some research about what degrees give more bang for their buck in the fields you're interested in. Research online about certification requirements for the state you live in or may want to live in.
2. Start talking to people in the fields you're interested in. People that are working in the field will have more information and insight then we will.
3. It is ok if you dont know what you want to do. If someone told me at 22 I would love working in banking and lending when I was older, I would of thought they were insane. It takes time to learn yourself and that is ok.
4. Do not limit yourself to expensive Ivy League schools. I know alot of millionaires and CEOs that never went to an Ivy League school. What determines success is work ethic. Shop around for schools that are going to give more options without breaking the bank.
5. You seem very interested in starting your own business. Take a class in entrepreneurship while you are trying to figure out what you want to do. There are free online courses... http://under30ceo.com/20-free-entrepreneurship-courses-online-to-check-out/ ... Take classes you are interested in a smaller school until you figure out what direction you want to go.

Personally, I have never had a college degree. I have worked my ass off to get where I am. I started as a telemarketer for a credit card company. Worked my way up the banking food chain to closing $2.5million in loans as a branch bank loan officer a year. I started my career in a different time as well. The majority of my finance career was before 2008. The economy is different now.

The only thing that will ever limit you .... is you. As long as you have faith in your own ability and work hard, you can get to where you need to go.

Versalia
05-28-2014, 09:41 PM
Ok. I guess I made up my mind. I'm going to cash in on my looks and youth for the next 3-5 years, live below my means and save what I can. Then, I will go back to school and finish what I started, funding my education with my nest egg and getting into no debt. Then I will get my degree, go into the corp world, invest some of the money I've made into the down payment for my dream home and live happily ever after.