View Full Version : Single girl RANT
1st_samurai
06-29-2014, 05:11 PM
^ you are a complete immature twunt. yes, i said twunt. women past their 20s aren't old used up hags, and somehow undesirable while older men are like fine wine :lmao: she doesn't have to go begging just because she's *gasp* 38! you have no idea what you are talking about, and have to put people down because of some obvious insecurity. its sad. 38 is nowhere near old. my boyfriend is 38 and its the best sex of my life. some people value maturity, character, intelligence more than just youth. and youth doesn't always even equal good looks either.
You're a dancer. How many dancers do you know that are over 40? Why are so few dancers over 40?
Your anger, defensiveness, and name calling only masks what you know to be certain truths.
I responded to this thread to try to be helpful. Really, what the OP decides to do has no affect whatsoever on me. I don't give a flying fuck.
simone87
06-29-2014, 05:20 PM
^ i've danced with quite a few over 40, and a ton of girls in their 30s actually. if you are trying to say that anybody over their 20s is undesirable, you are sadly mistaken. its much harder to deal with dancing as you get older, it gets very hard on your body and mind. it also takes good diet, exercise, and no smoking/tanning etc to keep yourself looking good, but that doesn't mean that you automatically look like crap in your 40s. the older dancers that i've worked with have worked fewer days but banked hard core.
Aniela
06-29-2014, 05:50 PM
You're a dancer. How many dancers do you know that are over 40? Why are so few dancers over 40?
Your anger, defensiveness, and name calling only masks what you know to be certain truths.
I responded to this thread to try to be helpful ….
There is nothing helpful abt implying that purely bc Simone or any other lady on here is a dancer they don't know from Shinola(wow, referencing Shinola must make me a fking dinosaur) or that fewer quality dancers in their 30s & older is a reliable indication of women's quality in general.
Why fewer dancers that are 40+? For the same reason there are fewer cops that are 40+. Both jobs are extremely taxing in all ways, physical, mental, etc. Even the ones who do everything 'right' get burnt out or injured too severely to return to the job.
Do you really think your own daughter would be worthless after, say, 35 & she should just settle for any wanker w/ a pulse that looks at her twice? Bc that idea is exactly what you are feeding w/ your statement ^^^^.
simone87
06-29-2014, 05:54 PM
i am still in my 20s, but yes your post still angered me.. i did feel compelled to defend the girl you were attacking, when you pretty much said she was worthless and should date any guy who was kind enough to "lower" themselves to date her, simply because she was 38. i really hate that kind of mentality..that a woman's worth is based off her age. i'm sorry i called you a twunt, but it was a really slimy thing to say
1st_samurai
06-29-2014, 06:01 PM
Do you really think your own daughter would be worthless after, say, 35 . I would try to convince her to get married before age 30. Why do you think your parents, aunts, relatives nag you to marry before 30? It's no coincidence. It's the age old idea that women are valued for their youth and beauty, while men are valued for their money and status. You can't deny there's an element of truth in that. If my daughter was fat and ugly, I would have no hope of her marrying, then I would tell her she better study real hard and get a good job because no one will support her.
i'm sorry i called you a twunt, but it was a really slimy thing to say Don't apologize. You mean what you say.
Aniela
06-29-2014, 06:10 PM
I would convince her to get married before age 30.
Or else, what? The only thing she's got worth being had by a man is being under 30?
Further, you would rather she get married b4 30 to whoever bc she is, in effect, worthless … even if the guy is a solid POS … just curious, say she does get married by age 30 -- how many yrs is her hubby obligated to honour said marriage? She is, after all, over the hill ... Spent … used-up … got nuthin left to give … so she would really be asking ALOT to expect him to still love, honour, cherish etc after that point.
Aniela
06-29-2014, 06:18 PM
I would try to convince her to get married before age 30. Why do you think your parents, aunts, relatives nag you to marry before 30? It's no coincidence. It's the age old idea that women are valued for their youth and beauty, while men are valued for their money and status. You can't deny there's an element of truth in that.
Are you then worthless w/o a six-digit-or-better bank acct? If so, if you truly have nothing else to offer, that sounds like a product of sm rather poor character development.
Further, my family not only knows better at this point than to pressure me towards marriage; they wouldn't pressure me to get married b4 an arbitrarily-determined age to whoever is available, (all but regardless of that person's character,) just to satisfy an arbitrarily-determined definition of my worth as a human being.
simone87
06-29-2014, 06:31 PM
I would try to convince her to get married before age 30. Why do you think your parents, aunts, relatives nag you to marry before 30? It's no coincidence. It's the age old idea that women are valued for their youth and beauty, while men are valued for their money and status. You can't deny there's an element of truth in that. If my daughter was fat and ugly, I would have no hope of her marrying, then I would tell her she better study real hard and get a good job because no one will support her.
.
so the only purpose of marriage is to have somebody to support you, and nobody will want to marry you unless you are either rich, or beautiful..both things that can be gone within a blink of an eye. and then what?? what a sad, shallow existence to live. i really hope you don't have kids
Kellydancer
06-29-2014, 09:56 PM
I know i'm late to this thread but Kellydancer - i feel ya on this. I'm 38 and agree, people seem to think i should be grateful, abandon all standards and requirements to be at all attracted to a man and just pair off with anyone who asks.
Simonegray: you might find this next paragraph interesting....
I even took someone's advice this week and went on a date with a guy who was cute, but not in a way i found sexy. We had a lovely date, great food, conversation, went dancing afterwards, but when we kissed there was still a big ZERO on the sexually attracted scale. Am i supposed to brush that aside just because he has a job, nice house, all his own teeth and took me for a nice evening out???!!
I agree, you should hold out for someone you feel chemistry for, along with other things. I refuse to settle including being alone. If you feel nothing I would keep looking. I have met someone who I have amazing chemistry with along with so many shared hobbies and I'd rather wait for him instead of just hooking up with someone because I want anyone.
Kellydancer
06-29-2014, 10:03 PM
I would try to convince her to get married before age 30. Why do you think your parents, aunts, relatives nag you to marry before 30? It's no coincidence. It's the age old idea that women are valued for their youth and beauty, while men are valued for their money and status. You can't deny there's an element of truth in that. If my daughter was fat and ugly, I would have no hope of her marrying, then I would tell her she better study real hard and get a good job because no one will support her.
Don't apologize. You mean what you say.
The 1950's called they want you back. Hate to tell you but most women today have careers and don't marry men for their money. Men that only date younger than say 30 aren't worth dating. Taking dating advice from Tom Leykis is like taking race advice from the KKK, it makes you look like an ass.
Btw I know plenty of fat and ugly women that marry.
tuesdaymarie
06-29-2014, 10:13 PM
I even took someone's advice this week and went on a date with a guy who was cute, but not in a way i found sexy. We had a lovely date, great food, conversation, went dancing afterwards, but when we kissed there was still a big ZERO on the sexually attracted scale. Am i supposed to brush that aside just because he has a job, nice house, all his own teeth and took me for a nice evening out???!!
Maybe you should give it some time to see if attraction grows? I didn't think my SO was my "type" at all when we first met--I hated him! (And yes, I was a girl who seemed to only end up with assholes before this.) Two and a half years later, we live together and plan to marry, and I've honestly never met a kinder, more loyal or forgiving man (seriously, I'm a bitchy twat sometimes, and he has never reacted negatively once). For me to stop being attracted to assholes, I had to examine why I thought abuse/general shittiness equaled love. And holy shit, I realized that's what I grew up believing because of my parents. Maybe you don't have a fucked up model of relationships you can look back on, but it was the reality for me. Just my $.02 as a girl who hesitated to date someone who was nice to me purely because I didn't know how to react to that. (And I was 21 at the time, so I don't think it's because I was a love-deprived spinster or whatever seems to be going on in this thread...)
1st_samurai
06-29-2014, 10:22 PM
Are you then worthless w/o a six-digit-or-better bank acct? A guy who is unemployed or working a minimum wage job after age 21 is typically considered a loser.
Hate to tell you but most women today have careers and don't marry men for their money.Btw I know plenty of fat and ugly women that marry.
True. College educated women that have careers typically date and marry college educated men with careers. That's one of the reasons being pointed out for rising inequality. Yes, fat and ugly women marry, but typically to "losers" with very low incomes.
Maybe you should give it some time to see if attraction grows? I think that's good advice.
GlamourRouge
06-30-2014, 05:45 AM
I've actually been in quite a few relationships, and majority were really good. I'm still friends with most of my exes, and we mostly broke up due to one of us moving away. Here is what I have noticed:
- Dating is a numbers game. The more men you meet (and date), the more likely you are to find a good match
- The man has to pursue you. If he doesn't pursue you, he doesn't like you
- You need to have the "fetish" that the guy is into. So you need to look at your strong points and scenes you're into. Dark hair? Maybe you should pursue goth boys. Athletic shape? Maybe you should hang out at the beach. Etc etc. Even "professionals" are still into hobbies and scenes
- Not always, but you definitely increase the odds of success when you meet through work, a hobby group, or friends... Something where he will see you a lot before he decides if he likes you or not. If you meet somewhere random where you don't have anything in common, he will only see you for dates, and thus see you in a different, non-committal light which makes it easy for him to walk away at any time
- Men settle down when its the right time, versus women with the right man
- You need to figure out what your "type" is (even if you have "no type", you're still into SOMETHING whether its wealthy men, athletic men, artistic men, SOMETHING) and then try your best to hang out in areas where you will attract it. If you don't, then you probably won't attract the type of guy you're into
- Look hot at all times. That doesn't mean wearing heels or making sure you are a size 0. It doesn't even mean dressing fancy. Just show off your best assets and learn how to dress yourself to attract the type of guy you like. Look put together, even if just in a non-put-together way (if that makes sense). How you dress, what your hair looks like, sadly, says a lot about you to other people. That's just how the world works
- Chemistry is either there or its not. It won't magically appear one day. That doesn't mean not giving guys chances, but it also doesn't mean sticking around because you *hope* to be attracted to him some day. Its either there or its not
GlamourRouge
06-30-2014, 06:00 AM
You may think you're settling for him, but have you thought he's settling for you?
The cold, hard truth Tom Leykis --- No One Wants 50 year Old Women
Some guys are only into milfs. I've met quite a few. You just have to find someone whose fetish you have
SimoneGray
06-30-2014, 09:12 AM
Not just you. Most women are like that. It's evolution.
Think ahead, like 10 years. Do you want to be "pumped and dumped" for another 10 years? Who do you think the non-assholes will be dating in 10 years? (answer: women like you 10 years ago! or, more likely he'll be married to a woman who thought ahead.)
Break the cycle by differentiating between guys you want to fuck versus the ones that are actually "marriage material," i.e. holds a stable job, will help you with house chores, changing the dirty diapers, won't bang hoes on the side, etc.
Since you aren't physically attracted to the nice guy, try this: frequently look at pictures of old, fat men. Your nice guy will look much better in comparison. You will find him more attractive. Then, when you form a relationship with him, you learn to emotionally like him. From there, your physical chemistry will form. (damn feels weird giving this advice)
Thank you so much for wording it like this...brilliant :)
rickdugan
06-30-2014, 09:59 AM
You may think you're settling for him, but have you thought he's settling for you?
The cold, hard truth Tom Leykis --- No One Wants 50 year Old Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDzyAZrkSqg
You're taking your views on dating from Tom Leykis? Wow, that explains a lot. I myself enjoy listening to him now and then for the entertainment value, but anyone who takes his overly simplistic and intentionally controversial views of the world as gospel really doesn't have a grip. Seriously dude.
Now yes, I do agree that if a guy has some success in life, his dating options open up dramatically. When I re-entered the dating scene at 30, with my looks still intact, what I believe was a little bit of youthful charm, and, yes, a nice income, it was amazingly easy to land dates. Far more so than when I was a broke college kid or even when I first graduated from college. In fact, I so enjoyed the new reality that I spent the better part of 4 years bed hopping. I was indeed landing the types of girls that I could not easily pull when I was very young and I certainly could have gone younger if I chose. So, IME, there is a kernel of truth in some of what he says. Not with his notions that 18 and 19 year old girls think like that, because IME it is the exact opposite, but by the time many of these girls hit their mid-20s, with some life experience under their belts and maybe a kid or two, their priorities change. The guys who seemed like so much fun at 19 look a lot less appealing at 26. Shit, by that point, a lot of these girls are simply grateful if a guy can take them on a nice date and treat them like a lady. ;)
But the reality is that we choose our partners based upon a number of factors. I ultimately married a woman in my mid-30s who, while albeit was pretty and hot as hell, was also my own age. Why? Because our views on life clicked and I felt that she would be a good mother (which she is). And now, as my wife of many years and the mother of my children, I would never dream of "trading her in" or some such other nonsense. Relationship choices are not about landing the hottest youngest piece of ass that one can get into bed. They are about who is going to have your back, or take care of you if you get sick, truly love you for who you are, or raise your children with the values that you hold dear, or...(etc., etc.).
Now does it become a little tougher for girls as they push the 40+ barrier? In some ways I think it does. Men and women do indeed age differently and some of the more eligible men in that age range to tend to play in younger space, especially if they do not have kids yet. But to say that a woman in that age bracket should be resigned to dating old and/or broke dudes is ludicrous. There are just too many variables that lead to attraction and love and people in those age ranges get together all the time.
So before you pass any more advice to grown adults, maybe you should get a little more real life experience under your belt and rely less upon a goofball radio personality for your world views. Just a thought.
GlamourRouge
06-30-2014, 12:23 PM
You're taking your views on dating from Tom Leykis? Wow, that explains a lot. I myself enjoy listening to him now and then for the entertainment value, but anyone who takes his overly simplistic and intentionally controversial views of the world as gospel really doesn't have a grip. Seriously dude.
For whatever reason, I listened to that whole youtube Tom Leykis thing, and he claimed that he was 48 and fucking a lot of 19 year olds and never spending any money on them. I just don't believe it. That doesn't make any sense. And it makes him sound like a predator if it even is true. He kept saying "everyone I grew up with BEGS me to go to my high school reunions, but I don't want to see those women! I'm banging girls younger than their daughters!" That's just a really creepy thing to say, and probably a delusional one. He has some weird complexes.
LOL he also kept saying he was so hot, and then I google him and THIS is him:
http://www.santamariasun.com/images/cms/full/arts0.2ndry.internet%20radio.1.27.1.jpg
LOL sorry but I can't take advice from someone like that saying the things he said. He appears to be some sort of overweight Howard Stern type?
Kellydancer
06-30-2014, 12:46 PM
Except Howard Stern actually has talent. I've heard better radio talent at high schools over Tom Leykis.
I think Rick has is on the mark. As an older never married, childless woman over 40 I can state that yes it does get harder when it comes to dating and yes sometimes one has to settle on things they wouldn't have years ago. However, those things don't have to be things one feels strongly about. For me, I refuse to settle on the kids issue which means other issues aren't as important. I have become friends with a guy who is exactly what I want in a boyfriend but he does have some issues that would have been dealbreakers years ago (he's short, a bit overweight and shy). What happens if it never progresses beyond friendship? It is kind of scary because I remember my horrific online experience. I did get a lot of responses but many were guys I knew could never be romances. What irked me the most about online though was this idea that some men got that because I was older I should settle for loser men, such as baby daddies, guys who were criminals, older than my dad, lazy, etc.
spartaca
06-30-2014, 01:09 PM
Well, thanks Simone87 for defending me in my absence. I've managed to unfurl my arthritic old fingers to type my response here...
If i was a guy, you'd want to be me. I'd be telling you that i'm 38 banging hot 21 year olds and you'd be buying my books. As it is, women don't tend to get caught up in that crap - i'm 38 and drowning in 21 year old models. Seriously, it's a problem. I model and act and every job i do i end up with some beautiful 20-something boy begging me for a date (they think i'm their age). So evidently, i look after myself and am blessed with good genes. So no, no one settles for me, honey, but lord help any girl who settles for you.
audrey_k
06-30-2014, 02:43 PM
Wow, this thread went to a dark place...
Honestly, for god sake, George Clooney is probably the MOST eligible bachelor at the moment and who is is getting married to? A twenty year old? A hot young actress? No... he's marrying a mid-late 30s solicitor who's defended people like Julian Assange... I've seen pictures of the woman and she's not unattractive by any means, but she doesn't look like a model or anything. Some men are attracted to smart, intelligent, mature women over young, hot bimbos. That man could marry ANYONE he wanted. I'm not interested in marrying some guy just because he has money and I'm certainly not interested in marrying someone who's only marrying me because I'm in my twenties or attractive. The idea that women CAN'T get married past 30 is ridiculous. My mom dated for 6 months before getting remarried and she was in her early 40s and my step dad is certainly not a loser...
No one should be getting married in their 20s anyway, why do you think the divorce rate is so high? You don't know yourself well enough when you're that young to be tying yourself to someone for the rest of your life. I would rather not get married at 25, do nothing but paint my nails and watch TV, and then get dumped by some asshole at 40 because he wants a new model and then what am I supposed to do with myself for the rest of my life?
And what the hell does dancing past your 30s have to do with anything? The dancers I have known past 35+ were the MOST successful dancers I've ever known. These ladies had their regs wrapped around their fingers. They didn't even bother coming into work unless they had a customer coming, and when they did come in they ignored all the customers walking around the club and watched youtube videos on their iPads until their customer came... and the managers let them get away with whatever the fuck they wanted because they made so much money!
Kellydancer
06-30-2014, 03:16 PM
Well, thanks Simone87 for defending me in my absence. I've managed to unfurl my arthritic old fingers to type my response here...
If i was a guy, you'd want to be me. I'd be telling you that i'm 38 banging hot 21 year olds and you'd be buying my books. As it is, women don't tend to get caught up in that crap - i'm 38 and drowning in 21 year old models. Seriously, it's a problem. I model and act and every job i do i end up with some beautiful 20-something boy begging me for a date (they think i'm their age). So evidently, i look after myself and am blessed with good genes. So no, no one settles for me, honey, but lord help any girl who settles for you.
If you are old at 43 I am ancient. I go to the nursing homes finding men. I have known a lot of hot older women, far more than older men. That's why I always laugh when I see these men looking younger yet they are nothing. Most of the guys I know look older than me and yes I often get hit on by younger guys.
Ironically I do have arthritis but I've had it since a teen and it's genetic, not due to old age.
spartaca
06-30-2014, 03:40 PM
Kellydancer, Sorry to hear of your arthitis, hope i didn't offend you, i was just giving 1stSamurai a bit of sass. On your suggestion of nursing homes though -hmmm, at least they can't run away from my hideous wrinkled old self... you may be onto something ;)
GlamourRouge
06-30-2014, 03:43 PM
Age is pointless. Some people age really bad, and some age really well. Some have good genetics, some have "bad" genetics. That's why I don't really ~*pay attention*~ to age.
I also think character and intention says WAY more about someone than what they physically look like. And I think a good sense of style says way more about someone than a typical conventionally "attractive" person. That doesn't mean I would go for someone ugly, I just never ever tend to go for the guy with muscles (I find them gross) or a perfectly chiseled face (I find them too feminine).
I would also never want to be with someone that characterizes what I physically look like as the #1 and possibly only priority. Who really wants to be with someone like that? It doesn't mean you don't care about your own looks, but someone that flat out ONLY goes after someone for their physical looks is a HUGE red flag to me. Someone I would never in a million years want to be involved with.
Kellydancer
06-30-2014, 03:49 PM
Kellydancer, Sorry to hear of your arthitis, hope i didn't offend you, i was just giving 1stSamurai a bit of sass. On your suggestion of nursing homes though -hmmm, at least they can't run away from my hideous wrinkled old self... you may be onto something ;)
Don't worry you didn't offend at all. I'm fine with my arthritis and I do laugh about it. Sounds weird but I often say "see, I'm old because I have it". I agree with your comments, he was offensive saying older women are unattractive.
GlamourRouge
06-30-2014, 03:52 PM
Except Howard Stern actually has talent. I've heard better radio talent at high schools over Tom Leykis.
I'm actually extremely attracted to Howard Stern. Physically and personality-wise. Howard is honest and straightforward. Tom Leykis just comes off as crazy and trying wayyyy too hard.
George Clooney is probably the MOST eligible bachelor at the moment and who is is getting married to? A twenty year old? A hot young actress? No... he's marrying a mid-late 30s solicitor who's defended people like Julian Assange... I've seen pictures of the woman and she's not unattractive by any means, but she doesn't look like a model or anything. Some men are attracted to smart, intelligent, mature women over young, hot bimbos. That man could marry ANYONE he wanted. I'm not interested in marrying some guy just because he has money and I'm certainly not interested in marrying someone who's only marrying me because I'm in my twenties or attractive. The idea that women CAN'T get married past 30 is ridiculous. My mom dated for 6 months before getting remarried and she was in her early 40s and my step dad is certainly not a loser...
Bingo. I would ONLY want to marry a man who wanted to marry an accomplished or hard-working woman. Not saying you can't be 20, hot, and accomplished, but that's really rare.
I would never in a million years want to marry someone who only wanted to marry someone hot and nice... without any sort of drive, accomplishments, or hobbies. That to me is not a wise decision. However, marrying someone who takes care of themselves, is accomplished, and has a lot mutual interests is wise IMO.
If he marries you for your looks, he will also divorce you for your looks down the line. If he marries you for your drive and accomplishments, well those will (hopefully) only continue to grow as years go on.
Kellydancer
06-30-2014, 04:00 PM
I like his personality too. Not so much lookwise, but I think he could grow on me. Stern though is intelligent, Leykis just seems like a moron.
MarvelGirl
06-30-2014, 08:14 PM
For whatever reason, I listened to that whole youtube Tom Leykis thing, and he claimed that he was 48 and fucking a lot of 19 year olds and never spending any money on them. I just don't believe it. That doesn't make any sense. And it makes him sound like a predator if it even is true.
I believe it. I also agree it makes him sound like a predator. I remember a group of girls I went to high school with. They had shitty parents and didn't seem to know basic hygiene. They were all sleeping with gross, old men because those "men" saw that they were weak and naive and took advantage of it. I'm sure those men bragged about their "conquests" but anyone who saw those teenagers would have seen them for what they were; sad, neglected, little girls who didn't know how to treat their acne or wash their hair, or dress themselves in flattering clothing.
People always seem to imagine 18 or 19 year old girls are super hot Barbie types but the vast majority are not. Anybody who brags about the age of their lovers just sounds like a loser to me. I've got a kid in high school. I've seen what those girls look like. I'm not even slightly threatened by them in my "old age." LOL
MarvelGirl
06-30-2014, 08:16 PM
You're a dancer. How many dancers do you know that are over 40? Why are so few dancers over 40?
I wasn't aware that a woman's only measure of worth is how well she can perform in a strip club.
Kellydancer
07-01-2014, 12:29 PM
Going by his logic, only attractive young women have worth. Forget all the women that have changed the world, if they were old and/or ugly they have no value.
1st_samurai
07-01-2014, 08:09 PM
FYI:
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/sex/male-vs-female-sexual-market-value/
Male vs. Female Sexual Market Value
As you may know, I’m really big on statistics, metrics, heuristics, anything data-driven that is going to bring objectivity to something as subjective and emotional as dating.
I think it’s important that you know that 95% of people eventually get married.
Or that 95% of the country practices premarital sex.
Or that only 14% of men are over 6 feet tall.
And 5% makes over 100k.
Numbers put reality into perspective, and, from there, we can make healthy and informed decisions about love.
But nowhere do things get messier than when discussing the “sexual market value” of men and women. We’ve touched on it in many forms before. Why older men want younger women. Why older women want younger men. How many emails men and women get on dating sites. The availability and merits of 7s vs. 10s. Lori Gottlieb’s seminal book, “Marry Him: The Case for Settling For Mr. Good Enough” is pretty much a meditation on this very subject. Gottlieb discovered that while she was in her early 30′s, passing up on the 7′s and holding out for a 10, by the time she reached her late 30′s, the 10′s were only interested in women in their early 30′s. Furthermore, the quality of the men available to her as a 39-year-old who wanted her own biological children was closer to a 5 (in her mind). Yes, I know these numbers are gauche, but we’re trying to establish a pattern. Not based on our feelings about how things should be or what would be right and just and fair. But simply by observing the behaviors and desires of men and women.
Enter Susan Walsh at Hooking Up Smart. I haven’t met Ms. Walsh, but I feel like we’re probably kindred spirits, because she decided to post this long, wonky post with a number of charts and graphs.
The premise of her post was to establish which gender, if any, had greater sexual market value – which is to say, more enduring appeal to the opposite sex over time. The term market value seems crude, but it’s the best possible term because, like economic market forces of supply and demand, these are completely self-regulating. If a man thinks he can date a 10, but no 10′s want him, then, evidently, he’s overestimated his sexual market value. If a woman dates online and thinks she can date a man 10 years younger because she “looks good for her age”, but no men 10 years younger give her the time of day (apart from requests for NSA sex), then, well, she, too, has overestimated her sexual market value. Essentially, whether you’re a 3 or a 10 is not really your decision. The market will tell you what you can command. Just as it does with your own salary. Anyone who holds out for a 500K salary but finds that no one is willing to pay it will remain unemployed for a really, really long time. Anyway, back to the original premise:
I think we can agree in general that young women remain particularly appealing to men, even when it gets a bit creepy.
I think we can also agree that, for whatever reason, older men seem have more dating options than older women. There are exceptions, of course, but there are more 50-60-year-old men dating 5-10 years younger than women dating men 5-10 years younger.
Based on this, there is a perception that men have greater sexual market value than women. This opinion is particularly espoused by hardcore men’s groups, because it’s an appealing narrative. They say something to the effect of: “American women are way too picky, way too masculine, way too selfish. But due to biology, I can be that 45-year-old guy who is hooking up with 27-year-old women while 45-year-old women turn into angry spinsters.” These are not my sentiments, but we do see them occasionally expressed in the comments section below, usually by dorky guys without much game who play the “biology” card early and often. Enter Susan Walsh. Using data from 200,000 people on OkCupid, Walsh takes on these men who overestimate their appeal to younger women and gives them a good old-fashioned scientific smackdown, concluding:
Mean male sexual value over 30 year period: 40.0
Mean female sexual value over 30 year period: 39.9
By this unbiased calculation of actual data, the male and female of the species exhibit the same sexual market value.
The OKCupid chart has good, reliable information for both sexes. Women need to understand that the male curve lags the female curve by about five years, is flatter and a little wider. That means you’ll have more competition from younger women as you age. You will never be hotter than you are at 22, so plan accordingly.
It’s important to recognize that some men display a motive for artificially elevating the SMV of aging males, so ignore any wisdom characterized as “red pill.”
In my own coaching materials, I always suggested that a woman’s peak was 27-30 in terms of her desirability to the most men, and that a man’s peak was 35-39. I’m going to stick with that premise, since I think OkCupid’s data skews young. In other words, while a 22-year-old may be hot, most 41-year-old quality men would never actually date or marry one. So to all of the readers in my core demographic: 35-55, have no fear. As long as most 22-year-olds are creeped out by 40-year-old guys, there are no shortage of men out there for you.
Your thoughts, below, are greatly appreciated.
MarvelGirl
07-01-2014, 08:31 PM
Sexual market value has nothing to do with love or long term relationships.
simone87
07-01-2014, 08:44 PM
"you'll never be hotter than you are at 22"?? thank god that isn't true or i would be fucked. i looked like a troll at that age, and i don't mean the internet kind
edited to add: the okcupid statistics are fun and all, but they only reflect the tastes of the kinds of men who frequent that site..mostly losers looking for a quick hook up (s) with as many women as possible so they can prove to themselves they aren't losers. doesn't really reflect the tastes of all the men in the world.
Kellydancer
07-01-2014, 09:25 PM
Btw that website 1st Samurai is another one of those full of shit websites that tell women they are worthless if they are single and older.
I think we can also agree that, for whatever reason, older men seem have more dating options than older women.
No we can't all agree that older men have more options because that is bull shit. There are far too many variables and a hotter older women with her shit together has more market value than a loser man who is not one most women would like. Take an attractive older woman who is financially secure, I guarantee she has more options than say a man who works at a store, has no car and lives with his parents, especially if he's unattractive.
But due to biology, I can be that 45-year-old guy who is hooking up with 27-year-old women while 45-year-old women turn into angry spinsters.”
Actually men have a biological clock too and older age means lower quality of sperm. Sure you can be that 45 year old man hooking up with 27 year old women assuming you are handsome and financially secure. That 45 working a low level job who is chubby or not that handsome? not likely. Who's to say 45 year old women turn into angry spinsters? Not all women want marriage and not all want kids either. I've found more angry older men than older women.
lestat1
07-02-2014, 07:06 AM
Imagine if the OP were male, and how the advice here would change.
spartaca
07-02-2014, 09:48 AM
Bahahahahahahahahahaha! I can't believe 1stSamurai came back with yet more of that crap. Honestly, the guy hanging around on a stripper forum reckons he knows about women and their worth... LMAO you couldn't make it up!
Simone87, KellyDancer and MarvelGirl seem to have put him in his place.
Anyway, to go back to the OP - take theexample of 1stSamurai as perfect evidence of why you are single. Unfortunately, there's a lot of them about, so of course it's preferable to stay single, buy cats, heck push them around in a stroller - just don't 'settle' due to pressure.
Aurora_Sunset
07-02-2014, 09:50 AM
Imagine if the OP were male, and how the advice here would change.
How do you think it would change? Ignoring the last couple pages, cuz this got off-topic very quickly, the actual OP was about single girls in their mid-late 20s dealing with their girl friends who had been with the same person since they were practically in high school pressuring their single girl friends to just "get better" at dating or "hurry up" or "just stop dating losers." If a guy came here and said that all his buddies, who have never had a real date in their 20s, were razzing him with bullshit about how shitty his dating habits must be just because he hasn't clicked with anyone yet, I feel like the advice would be pretty similar.
The thing is though, I doubt I would ever see that sort of complaint from a guy. I don't think I've ever heard a man my age complain that his buddies who have been paired off for years are poking and pressuring and judging his dating life all the time. Men don't seem to do that to other men. It's more a female thing for other females to pressure you about "settling down" and laying down the judgement stick about why you haven't been able to make it work with anyone yet.
In fact, I remember a male poster on here, who hasn't been around in awhile, complaining a lot about his dating life and wanting to just give up even though he was only 26. As far as I remember, the advice given to him was pretty much in the range of "dude, calm down, you're only 26. You have plenty of time." So I highly doubt the responses to the original post (not the other question asked later, which veered off into a different topic entirely), would have changed that much.
Aurora_Sunset
07-02-2014, 09:57 AM
^^ Also, add to this the fact that the females who are complaining about people judging their dating life are sex workers who have a whole other slew of BS to wade through and reveal and discuss and compromise on when it comes to finding a partner they would do well with and who would want to be with them without it causing drama, and that makes it doubly annoying when female, non-sex workers judge us for not finding anyone suitable yet. If a male poster, who was also a sex worker, had the same problem, I really doubt the sympathy and advice would differ at all.
audrey_k
07-02-2014, 10:25 AM
You're also assuming that all women are the same, which is bull. Some women take better care of themselves than others, just like men do-- there are some hot older men but there are also some gross ones with pot bellies who make under 50k a year and aren't going to be get any more ass than a woman in the same position. My mom is now in her early 50s and still gets hit on... but she's always worn sunscreen, taken great care of her skin (even though she's never had botox or anything), works out multiple times a week, knows how to dress well for her age, what hair color/style works for her as a woman in her 50s... the test with any guy I date is always how long he takes checking my mom out. And my mom has thriving, successful career and a graduate degree, she's basically the definition of everything you're saying guys DON'T want and she gets hit on at the fucking grocery store more than I do.
Also I just refuse to believe that all men are as shallow and superficial as you claim. Like I said, my step dad is a total catch, he makes a great living, is in as good shape as my 21 year old brother, had a gorgeous condo by the beach (which he sold cause my mom wanted a house and a dog... she's more than twice my age and can manipulate men better than I can) and ZERO interest in dating hot young bimbos, he wanted someone who was mature and established in their career (which is why he went for my mom).
And yeah, I looked like shit at 20... platinum blonde hair that looked like crap with my skin tone and was all broken and brittle and frizzy... hadn't discovered the miracles of self-tannner... didn't know how to do my make up properly...
lestat1
07-02-2014, 10:59 AM
Aurora, it was a rhetorical question directed at the dating difficulties described by OP and subsequent commiseration and dating advice provided.
lurkingtitties
07-02-2014, 01:06 PM
1st samurai I read your post a couple times and I'm not really sure how you are drawing the conclusion that 22 is the peak of hotness for women. It doesn't really follow from the other figures you provide. Anyway even if it were a legitimate conclusion based on the scientific method it still wouldn't be universally true. Honestly I feel bad for anyone, male or female, who peaks in sex appeal at age 22! That's kinda sad. A lot of pro athletes, male and female, start as young adults and reach their physical peak anywhere from their late 20s to early 40s. It takes time to cultivate your optimal body and lifestyle.
Kellydancer
07-02-2014, 08:39 PM
But Audrey, your mom is old so your stepfather must be a loser (sarcasm). Seriously, I still get hit on and so does my 66 year old mom. I have my shit together more than I did at 22 and I take care of myself better.
I often talk about my online experience but strangely I got hit on in real life by much higher quality men than online. Online though I did get messages from a ton of younger guys. Sure most were looking for sex but that tells me they find me attractive. However I'm not into younger guys so I wasn't interested.
PrincessWhooty
08-02-2014, 09:17 PM
Gahhh..it's sad to read how many intelligent, beautiful, independent women are going through the same shit as me, over and over..are we gonna be single forever??? I don't even have a booty call to save my life! I think I'll start escorting just to get laid and have normal hours again. Lol..and then when/IF I meet a guy who seems like he might actually be worth my time, then I'm a "real estate secretary." That's my story and I'm fucking sticking to it. I guess I have to lie about my life to be accepted for who I am instead of being judged soley for what I DO. And yet sex workers are seen as the "fake" ones? Wow.
Kellydancer
08-02-2014, 09:22 PM
I know, none of it makes sense. I think about it a lot because I see my choices and just go yuck.
invibe
08-10-2014, 02:26 AM
I will skip the temptation to rant about people using blogs, opinion pieces and native advertising (marketing) as facts...
I completely disagree on age. No offense to the youngins here, but I see a naked 19 year old girl and I want to hand her a blanket or something. Pretty yes, but doesn't turn me on. Young girls also tend to annoy me.
Give me a woman from 35 to late fourties who has taken good care of herself any day. I am early fourties and the number of women late 30s to mid 40s that are cute/hot, in shape and actually fun to be with would shock you if you go by paranoid goofball dating misinformation. I'll be honest, I am still hopeful to find someone and start a family. There are plenty of women in this age range that are of the same mind. I was blessed with a very high sex drive and finally women around my age can match me and actually wear me out. So morons can chase dingbat 20 year olds (sorry ladies, no offense) and I'll stick with the older women I can actually enjoy on an intellectual level and fuck the daylights out of. So far this is the best dating has been for me personally.
There is another point that rings true in this thread about nice guys vs. assholes. I accepted long ago that some girls just prefer idiots at a certain age. Most outgrow it pretty early it seems. When I was younger I got labeled as too nice a couple times. It didn't occur to me that girls arent attracted to "nice" men, they are attracted to men with an edge. This really baffled me. I was a Marine, with an MMA fighters body and about the most dangerous job you can have and was labeled as too nice? Serious WTF moment. Long story short I learned to more good than nice. Good is sometimes not nice. I guess the point is just that there are good men that aren't nice smiling pushovers for those of you with the asshole addiction.
I was also going to say I think women unfairly have a lot of pressure to settle and start having kids throughout sexual maturity. People change so much from 16 to 30 and beyond. When society was very anti divorce maybe people made it work in a lot of case where they would just divorce today. It sounds weird but I think an older woman who has made a choice to settle down and have kids is smart and sexy. I'll jump out of your thread now.
slowpoke
08-10-2014, 05:44 AM
for some reason people really hate seeing a beautiful young woman ( or any woman at all ) single. it ranges from pity, to feeling they need to give advice, to scorn.
i'm not single right now, but i've always admired people who are completely happy being on their own and independent. i think its a lot more healthy than frantically searching for a boyfriend, just for the sake of not being single.
I think the people with the free advice are jealous
Aurora_Sunset
08-10-2014, 08:43 AM
Give me a woman from 35 to late fourties who has taken good care of herself any day. I am early fourties and the number of women late 30s to mid 40s that are cute/hot, in shape and actually fun to be with would shock you if you go by paranoid goofball dating misinformation. I'll be honest, I am still hopeful to find someone and start a family. There are plenty of women in this age range that are of the same mind.
Omg, can you please fly out here and knock this sense into one of my friends? He just turned 40 and his broken-record mantra for the past couple years has been that "all women over 30 'let themselves go' and become overweight and unattractive." He used to say all he ever wanted was to be married and be a father, but now he's giving up on that dream cuz he's "too old," and he can't attract the "hot" young girls anymore, and everyone his own age is fat and ugly. ::) I keep trying to explain to him that no, he's not the college kid, president-of-his-fraternity who spent 3 hours a day at the gym anymore (the apparent "glory days" that he can't let go of), but that doesn't mean he can't still get his shit together and find an attractive, smart, like-minded woman his own age. But if he keeps comparing everyone, including himself, to the "ideal" hotness from when he was a young 20-something, of course he's going to be disappointed...
My sister is 31 and just entered a pin-up contest, and my mom is 55 and I'm jealous of what she looks like naked after her last year of going warrior on her exercise and diet. It's silly to think that older women can't take care of themselves and look good. Will they look 23? No - that doesn't mean they're not just as attractive. Younger isn't the be all, end all measurement of "beauty."
spartaca
08-10-2014, 12:00 PM
I feel a bit like that guy. I'm 38 and i look around at the guys my age and they are mostly overweight and unattractive. I keep myself in shape and looking good and want a man who does the same, but most of the guys who do tend to date younger women and I therefore have little choice but to date younger men.
Interestingly, last week i had a date with someone my age who is in fantastic shape, tall, good looking, charming and clever and who normally dates much younger girls but says he has "too much on my plate right now" to get involved with anyone - no idea if that is true or not but ho-hum, back to 20-somethings for me then!
Kellydancer
08-10-2014, 12:49 PM
Invibe, you sound like a rational man. I get so tired of men (some women too)who think women over 35 are hags, ugly etc. I'm tired of this excuse many men make that they want a family and therefore will only date younger because "older women are menopausal". I also have to tell these men that while it is true in general younger women are fertile, that doesn't mean they are or that older women can't have babies. I know several women who had babies late in life and none were through artificial means. In fact several were from a time when these didn't even exist.
Spartaca, isn't that the truth? When I did online most of them men were overweight yet usually wanted younger. I see men around my age all around me and most are out of shape and look older than me. I know far more attractive women than older who take care of themselves.
simone87
08-10-2014, 02:07 PM
^ its not just women who get menopausal..well, men don't go into menopause, but with the increasing drop in their testosterone, they might as well be..their sperm also gets damaged after age 40 just like a woman's eggs.
i love older men who take care of themselves, but i think they can be just as unattractive as a woman that age who doesn't take care of themselves if not MORE. but then a younger man/woman can also be unattractive if they eat like shit, smoke, drink, and don't exercise.
i just don't get this whole " i'm a hot silver fox, too good for these hags my OWN age! men age like wine, women age like milk" bullshit. yeah, cuz paunchy and balding is sooo attractive dude
Kellydancer
08-10-2014, 03:00 PM
Very true Simone. I just read a study where it says that the increase in autism is because of MEN. We all hear about older eggs but older sperm isn't good either. Granted a lot of it has to do with how healthy a person is but I know far more older women in shape versus men. When I did online the majority of the men my age looked old, like my dad's age. A healthy in shape older person looks fine but not a flabby older person which is what I usually see.