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rickdugan
08-06-2014, 05:01 AM
Ushar, those last arguments are sophistry. There is a wide gulf between sitting in someone's lap vs. allowing him to finger her or [insert other heavy duty extra here]. Also, it doesn't matter whose "fault" it is, it doesn't change the reality that if a few girls are allowing this sort of thing then other girls are at risk for having unexpected fingers jammed in places that they don't want to have them in.

Now I'm not going to he a hypocrite by arguing against so-called "extras" girls as I've had my fair share of fun in clubs over the years. But is there any point in debating with girls who don't like this stuff? Of course they don't, because it hurts their money and makes their working environment less safe. Most clubs did not start out this way and what is happening in them was never intended, but rather things evolved over time. Why would you expect some dancers NOT to be unhappy about this?

Maybe you should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Radius
08-06-2014, 08:33 AM
ushar, 1. I agree with you 100%, and 2. since the pink side is oriented towards dancer support, might be fun to jump over to the blue side to have this discussion (although the intended audience might not follow :) )

whirlerz
08-06-2014, 09:04 AM
*Sigh. This thread's still open, lol?

rickdugan
08-06-2014, 09:28 AM
*Sigh. This thread's still open, lol?

LOL. But of course whirlerz. What would a dancer boundaries thread be without a certain number of dancers venting about how the bad girls ruining their money and then at least one, if not multiple, customers chiming in to argue that it is all just good, clean capitalism? And invariably, the guys fail to understand the venting nature of the dancers' posts, so they feel as if they simply must defend themselves and the so-called dirty girls. ;)

But perhaps I am just jaded and the likes ushar and Radius will have some brilliantly unique perspective to add to the discussion, perhaps even one worthy of its own separate thread in blue as radius suggested. I await with baited breath. ;D

ushar
08-06-2014, 11:18 AM
Maybe you should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I think I'm going to have to go with that option! ;D

Almost Jaded
08-12-2014, 06:17 AM
On the one hand, the girls are right to vent - "extras" girls DO raise expectations for a lot of customers, and it *does* fuck with clean dancer's money.

On the other hand - we can all, even the guys who enjoy those girls, acknowledge that this *IS* a customer problem.

Personally, I've had a great time with several dancers that have Tourdefranzia's attitude - and loved every second of it. I'm also cognizant of the fact that this does NOT mean that every girl is gonna do that, and I *never* expect anything of the sort. It's a happy and rare occurrence that I enjoy when it happens, and leave it at that. If more guys left it there, it wouldn't be such a problem.

DDuckworth
08-12-2014, 10:46 PM
I don't mind touching tbh as long as the customer is not gross. I just hate guys licking my nipples or touching my vagina.

Does this really happen? Do they just reach up and lick your nips out of nowhere? What do you say, what do you do?

SexedUpCat
08-12-2014, 10:56 PM
^I've had this happen a lot...mostly during lap dances. I just say "What the fuck are you doing? That's not OK." Then they say something like "Oh, I didn't know," or (my favorite), "Can you blame me for trying?" I'll say, "You took more, so you need to give me more, and, yes, I will blame you if you try again." They usually comply then.

Beyond that though, customers aren't morons. They know that that isn't OK and that it's disgusting. They're just trying to take as much as they can for as little as possible. You don't walk up to a girl and start licking her because germs and also who the fuck has that kind of indecency? Basically, customers know they shouldn't, but they try anyway.

I've also had a lot of customers who'll grab a fistful of hair and pull my head back (whether or not they go to kiss my neck then varies) which is NOT OK in any circumstance outside of permission given by me to my SO. I yell at them for that and demand money then leave. You don't do that shit to strangers. It's creepy and gross.

Money_Worshipper
08-16-2014, 01:06 PM
i've been on the two sides of the coin. i've been an extras girl and became a clean girl that never went back to extras. believe it or not i still work in the same club. when i just started dancing, i didn't have much experience with men and was a virgin at 20 years old. it wasn't that i was ugly it was because i was afraid of men and had very low self esteem issues. but money drove me to dance.

basically dancing allowed me to make money while exploring my newfound sexuality. i made out with a lot of men and let them finger me because it gave me power i had never felt before. i had a lot of anger towards father and i took it out on men. i used men and overcharged them for exploring my sexuality. money was good but i worked hard at it because my scarcity mentality told me that i can't make money without doing extras.

after i did a lot of self improvement, energy healing and meditation, i've come to paradise from hell. i didn't know i was in hell until i've got a taste of paradise. now my energy vibration allows me to attract men who don't ask me for extras and my self esteem has gone through the roof. i make way more money for little work. i don't do extras anymore and i work less for more money.

even looking at girls who do extras at my club doesn't bother me nor take money away from me because i KNOW that money will come to me because of what i have to offer for the customers (clean dancing, good conversations).

depending on the girl's mentality, she will make money the way she thinks she can. this is my wisdom that i'm sharing

newb2
08-16-2014, 10:51 PM
Does this really happen? Do they just reach up and lick your nips out of nowhere? What do you say, what do you do?

Yes. Or if I shove my tits in their face they just open their mouth :/

I just say "Oi! No touching even with your mouth!" while shoving their head back or I don't shove my boobs in their face for the remainder of the dance

Naida
08-17-2014, 05:04 PM
Nope, nope, nope. The only reason I like customers touching me on "safe zones" (like my waist or thighs) is because it's more comfortable for both of us than if he sat there awkwardly trying to keep his hands to himself. In VIP/CR, I'm okay with more touching as long as it's respectful. Comfortable customers are more likely to keep spending. I vastly prefer for customers to find themselves a comfortable way to keep their hands away from me.

End game? We rarely, if ever, give a shit about you. We just want what's in your wallet and will use whatever tactic (within reason and personal boundaries) necessary to get it.

Vackra
08-17-2014, 10:15 PM
Yes. Or if I shove my tits in their face they just open their mouth :/

I just say "Oi! No touching even with your mouth!" while shoving their head back or I don't shove my boobs in their face for the remainder of the dance

This is why I outline any and all rules before. My standard line is "Ok babe, we have only two rules here: don't touch me here (my crotch) and don't touch here (my boobs). If you want to gently touch my legs, my back, or my butt, that's fine. Are we good?". I find adding "are we good?" or some variation makes them acknowledge and consent to your rules. I really think this is why I have such a low douchebag customer count.

SweetJulia
08-18-2014, 06:24 AM
To make life not so miserable and difficult for the rest of us? lol. I dunno, I'm not going to give up on trying to be a clean dancer, and perhaps I just haven't accepted the reality of this industry and I'm being naive thinking that anyone in the sex industry cares about anyone else, but I do, so I'm just going to keep hoping there are other people like that out there.
Truly clean clubs are few and far in between. Honestly, it's a major part of why I went to camming. If a girl is willing to do extras, it doesn't matter how much cuter the clean girls are. And trust me, they usually are.

MyButter
08-18-2014, 07:12 AM
If a girl is willing to do extras, it doesn't matter how much cuter the clean girls are. And trust me, they usually are.

Right! What's even worse is when you have a quality extras girl who does it simply because she is smart enough to realize it gives her the upper hand in the club. How can anyone compete with that?

SweetJulia
08-18-2014, 08:10 AM
Right! What's even worse is when you have a quality extras girl who does it simply because she is smart enough to realize it gives her the upper hand in the club. How can anyone compete with that?

I'd still take being hot over having a few thousand in extras money any day, that's what I'd tell myself watching these "ladies" make money.

MiraMichele
08-18-2014, 09:05 AM
I like high contact for 2 reasons:

1) much easier to sell dances, and much easier to get repeat dances, and therefore my night is easier and less stressful, and my weekly income is more predicable because I'm not hoping for that random gem who is gonna pay $500 to sit and talk.

2) the attitude of guys getting high contact dances is much better than those getting air dances, they are more appreciative, feel like their money is better spent, and the atmosphere in the club is much more positive. While air dances are nice from my perspective, sitting with a pissed off guy who feels like I'm ripping him off is simply not worth it.

Neither of the reasons I like high contact have anything to do with me liking being touched.

This. I completely agree. I have always made more money in areas where they allowed higher contact, I'm a shitty hustler in the club to begin with so areas where there are just air dances are really not for me at all.

If I had it my way I would just do stage all night if there was a club that was possible at with being able to make as much as selling dances, but I haven't found that club yet. Realistically high contact dances are the easiest way for me to hustle and still make a decent amount.

simone87
08-18-2014, 05:25 PM
Right! What's even worse is when you have a quality extras girl who does it simply because she is smart enough to realize it gives her the upper hand in the club. How can anyone compete with that?

exactly. its not true at all that extras girls are all ugly and have to do that to make money, not anymore! i work with a smoking hot asian chick who does extras..tight toned body, big natural boobs, adorable face. its incredibly hard making money when she's working

Money_Worshipper
08-18-2014, 06:03 PM
you girls need to stop focusing on other girls who are making money doing extras. it does not make a difference. i have experienced both worlds. extras and being a clean girl IN THE SAME CLUB. just because somebody looks hot does not mean she has a healthy self esteem. i have a tight body and i've been considered hot but i used to do extras because i had very low self esteem that i needed to prove my worth through doing extras.

a girl doing extras means she doesn't have the confidence that she'll make money without having to do extras. theres no such thing as competition. i used to compete with girls a lot and i thought i needed to do extras to get the upper hand. but i was wrong. i changed my mentality and i don't have to do extras in order to make close to 1000 a night.

my club does a lot of extras and sometimes i even see girls doing extras right across from my booth. but it doesn't bother me as much since it doesn't really affect how much money i make. how much money you make depends on you alone not how many girls are doing extras etc...

simone87
08-18-2014, 06:17 PM
^ i agree that we should do our own things because there's really nothing that can be done, but you are dead wrong that extras girls dont' make a difference in earnings, no offense. it completely changes the club dynamic and little economy that exists in the 4 walls on the SC. its also not true that girls only do extras because they have "bad self esteem". its not a morality thing.

Money_Worshipper
08-18-2014, 06:24 PM
simone,

lets agree to disagree. i think 30% of my club is extras and i've moved from extras to clean. the economy didn't change for me. have you experienced being an extras girl? i have and my earning have changed a bit better and i have felt a lot better. it's a mentality thing im telling you from my experience.

extras might not be morality issue but it's a mentality thing i can guarantee you this. extras girls don't think they can make a lot of money being a clean dancer. i used to think that way too. before, i didn't think i could make a 1000 without doing extras in my club. but now that i'm a clean dancer, i can still make a 1000 without doing extras. it's a mentality thing. but also a self esteem issue for me but might not be for everybody

MyButter
08-18-2014, 06:48 PM
I haven't personally been an extras girl so you're right, i don't really have room to hypothesize as to why girls do extras.

From on observational standpoint, however, it doesn't seem like it is -always- a self esteem issue that drives girls to do extras. Some of the extras girls I've encountered over the years have their stuff down to a science. And honestly,if I take a step back and look at it from a totally objective point of view--going a few steps beyond what everyone else is willing to do makes alot of sense as a business model.

But like I said, this is all just based off of observation, so maybe I'm wrong?

Money_Worshipper
08-18-2014, 07:07 PM
mybutter,

you're right it's not always a self esteem issue. i've seen girls who appear to have it together but do extras. one girl in particular is a very hot european girl. i've talked to her and it's definitely a money thing. she says she makes easy 1000 a night doing extras. in my case though i had very low self esteem and a scarcity mentality. i needed to be desired sexually by men because i didn't feel loved and seen by my father. also i was money hungry. when you combine money and sex it's going to be power. i've experienced this personally.

as i've changed myself gradually. i've learned through and through that your mentality is what makes you money. this extras girls make a 1000 giving handjobs, blow jobs and being eaten out. i can now make 1000 with good conversations and sensual dancing without having to do extras. what makes me so different from the extras girls. it's a mentality thing.

also i have a friend who is a phone sex operator and she makes about 2000 to 3000 a week. it's very rare for girls to make that much money through phone sex operator. according to her, lots of girls can't make that much money in her industry. she's a rarity she says because of her mentality.

ask the richest people in the world and they will tell you that it's a mentality thing to be successful not because some people are taking money away from them...

kirakonstantin
08-18-2014, 07:10 PM
Extras girls, IME, either do really well or their extras are the only thing they have to offer and scrape by. I'd venture to guess that at least 50% of the girls at my club are doing it dirty, some OTC. But... what am I really going to do? The management doesn't care and I'm valuable to them for other reasons, so i don't have to worry about job security. I still make good money, sometimes more than the extras girls.

I make my money by offering something non extra related that custies can't get anywhere else: I'm EBlok and I have huge, natural boobs and an extreme hourglass figure. Being EBlok also helps deter the "I'm going to shove my fingers there, whether she likes it or not." crap.

I'd like to see extras stop but... that's just not going to happen. I've learned to work around it, instead.

Kellydancer
08-18-2014, 07:56 PM
What's funny is when I danced usually (though not always)the extras girls were usually the least attractive. Now it seems more dancers than not are extras. I suspect it's because times are different and money was flowing then. It's also funny what is considered an extra. I once got in trouble for kissing a regular ON THE CHEEK. Another time I got yelled at for letting a customer (a regular too I believe)touch my legs.

DDuckworth
08-20-2014, 09:39 PM
^I've had this happen a lot...mostly during lap dances. I just say "What the fuck are you doing? That's not OK." Then they say something like "Oh, I didn't know," or (my favorite), "Can you blame me for trying?" I'll say, "You took more, so you need to give me more, and, yes, I will blame you if you try again." They usually comply then.

Beyond that though, customers aren't morons. They know that that isn't OK and that it's disgusting. They're just trying to take as much as they can for as little as possible. You don't walk up to a girl and start licking her because germs and also who the fuck has that kind of indecency? Basically, customers know they shouldn't, but they try anyway.

I've also had a lot of customers who'll grab a fistful of hair and pull my head back (whether or not they go to kiss my neck then varies) which is NOT OK in any circumstance outside of permission given by me to my SO. I yell at them for that and demand money then leave. You don't do that shit to strangers. It's creepy and gross.

HOLY SHIT!

That's SO much further than I ever thought anyone would ever go. I mean I guess I expect the occasional one-off, but I can't believe you've had more than one person pull your head back like that. I am sorry you've had to deal with such unpleasantness :(

kirakonstantin
08-21-2014, 12:01 AM
HOLY SHIT!

That's SO much further than I ever thought anyone would ever go. I mean I guess I expect the occasional one-off, but I can't believe you've had more than one person pull your head back like that. I am sorry you've had to deal with such unpleasantness :(

It's happened to me multiple times, as well as feeling hands around my throat (not strangling but.. there.) I dance defensively to avoid the hair pulling but... hands around my neck freaks me right the fuck out.

Vackra
08-21-2014, 09:21 PM
Extras girls, IME, either do really well or their extras are the only thing they have to offer and scrape by. I'd venture to guess that at least 50% of the girls at my club are doing it dirty, some OTC. But... what am I really going to do? The management doesn't care and I'm valuable to them for other reasons, so i don't have to worry about job security. I still make good money, sometimes more than the extras girls.

I make my money by offering something non extra related that custies can't get anywhere else: I'm EBlok and I have huge, natural boobs and an extreme hourglass figure. Being EBlok also helps deter the "I'm going to shove my fingers there, whether she likes it or not." crap.

I'd like to see extras stop but... that's just not going to happen. I've learned to work around it, instead.

I don't have huge boobs but I agree with this statement 100% and have always wondered why it works. It really reduces your risk by a significant portion. I've experienced it myself.

simone87
08-21-2014, 09:24 PM
what's an EBlok?

Vackra
08-21-2014, 09:39 PM
what's an EBlok?

Former USSR mostly: Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Serbia, etc. Slavic.

Hopper
10-25-2014, 03:15 AM
Dancers put your hands on them because they can sell you more dances if they allow contact and if they are going to let you touch them for that reason they may as well take the initiative, which encourages you even more because it makes you think they actually enjoy being touched by you.

If it's a high contact club, then of course dancers will put your hands on them, since the rules allow it anyway and they know you will do it without their encouragement. They do it for you just to make it look like they actually enjoy it, which makes it more fun for the customer and also makes him think the dancer may be attracted to him.

Some dancers may enjoy dancing for customers they are attracted to, but it's hard to tell if they are, since many dancers fake it to encourage you to buy more dances. I think it can really happen, if you are not a revolting slob or a jerk, or eighty.

OTOH, many dancers don't try to pretend at all and some don't even try to hide that they don't like you. Some are so hot they think they don't have to. Some peg you for a low spender (guilty!) and assume pretending to like you won't make you buy more from them.

I don't place expectations on dancers according to what other dancers have done for me. I respect each individual dancer's boundaries. I just choose the dancers who do more.

Djoser
10-26-2014, 03:44 PM
I never get dances but have watched a hell of a lot of them on camera--and trust me NOT for fun--it is not at all stimulating & often even makes me wonder why the fuck guys would pay for it. Though I am sure many of the SW members' dances are worth every penny.

It's part of the job in some clubs, either so we know whom to skip in the VIP or CRs, and also some clubs have various male staff watch cameras, to make sure nothing nasty is going on from either or both parties. From what I've seen, the dancers are as often or more often the ones starting the extras. However (to answer the OP's question), very very few are doing it because it's fun. They are doing it to make more money.

Fortunately, in the Key West clubs they put a stop to that shit when they see it.

KalinKross
11-16-2014, 09:09 AM
The illusion and fantasy sells more to the CR or VIP customer than just emulating the average entertainer in the club. If they think they will get more they will pay more than you draw the curtains closed on their fantasy and bank some cash!

KalinKross
11-16-2014, 09:11 AM
Former USSR mostly: Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Serbia, etc. Slavic.

a derogatory term to describe those of us who might be from that part of the world! kind of like racism and prejudice!

Aniela
11-16-2014, 11:26 AM
a derogatory term to describe those of us who might be from that part of the world! kind of like racism and prejudice!

What abt that was derogatory? The political/geographical reference or the ethnic reference? Both are correct, it's not like calling sm1 any Slavic equivalent of the n-word … :confused:

MrMike1952
11-18-2014, 03:59 PM
{Checking prices for flights to Portland.}


I know this is going to sound like stripper shit, but I like to be touched during dances. I'm an extras girl not because I can't make money without doing extras (I make $$ on stage all the time. I also get paid for conversation regularly. No extras going on there, obviously.), but because I like the sexual contact with men I find attractive. I'm guessing the OP is too young for me to find attractive, but I LOVE having a hot makeout session with a stranger at work whom I find attractive.

I know I'm outside the norm. But holy cow! Why not take advantage of a sexually charged situation while also taking care of business? To let it slip away or to turn away the advances of a man whom I'd snog anyway, just seems like passing up a free vacation or a delicious piece of cheesecake.

I do not recommend dancers engage in that kind of activity if they are NOT attracted to the customers and/or find the idea repulsive.

Some of us do this job because we are pervs. It doesn't mean I want a relationship with the man I just dry humped into submission. It means he was a willing participant in some fun sexy time. I'd be more than happy to engage in said activities with him again. For a fee.}:D

MrMike1952
11-18-2014, 04:21 PM
Sounds like a union lol. 'You can't do X, because I don't want to do X and you're making me look bad!'

How did we get to the point where saying that someone who is trying to protect established standards is a subject of ridicule.
When a woman decides to become a stripper (and not an escort or a hooker or whatever) she is agreeing to perform a certain kind of entertainment, to behave in certain ways and provide certain kinds of entertainment that she is comfortable with. Why should she be criticized or ridiculed for trying to maintain the terms of the bargain that she entered into when she took that job. If her co-workers are engaging in behaviors that pressure her into changing the nature of her job, she has the right to object and to resist.

I would say, by the way, that the same is true of unions. Union members also should not be ridiculed for trying to prevent co-workers from working in ways that create health and safety hazards or that otherwise change the nature of the job. Of course, it is rare for union members to have enough power these days to resist pressures to work faster and faster. And strippers are losing the power to protect whatever implicit standards existed when they took their jobs.

sinnersouless
11-19-2014, 12:03 AM
On the original topic: She's running your hands on her body, because it opens your wallet wide enough to fuck, and shuts down some brain cells. The only way it would turn her on is if she's already thinking about how she's spending your cash.

-disregard all else, I'm an idiot-


Sauce: Being the Dedicated Driver/Dedicated Disillusionist for an ungodly number of strip club trips.

HimuraKenshin1878
11-19-2014, 04:42 PM
I asked a few dancers why they allow some to touch and others no touching at all and it really comes down to the increase of sale, the dancer, how you act/behave, and how you treat them. Where I am a lot of frat boys and older men do not tip them or do not often get dances which is part of it but the older guys also seem to demand more from them even if their pockets are deeper. Will never forget when I was told by one of the ladies that a rich guy took her into an expensive VIP room for a dance and then started offering her $1,000 and up for a blow job and when she kept saying no offered more money, she told me it was really insulting.

Only one dancer I know has been really open to me touching her and then some but she usually initiates it, this is probably only cause I got to know her and she apparently is comfortable enough with me as another dancer asked me specific questions once that I later found out were from her.