View Full Version : Cheerleaders Should Be Grateful To Make NO Money....Yeah Right
Djoser
09-19-2014, 09:06 AM
It's an entirely different ballgame (no pun intended lol) from the dancers' suing the stripclubs. Those dancers made money from their labor, the cheerleaders did not.
It's not a fucking 'hobby' lol. They are out there busting their asses, during the game and for months, years in some cases before.
They are NOT interns, newbies who don't know how to dance or do all that dumb (but very difficult) shit they do to support the team, which requires immense skill and long practice sessions.
Just because it's a chance to 'score' a rich husband looking for an eye candy wife/girlfriend, or maybe even a real job later, doesn't mean they deserve minimum fucking wage or less.
It's quite simple, either you think a multi-billion dollar industry should shell out a few miserable dollars scraped from the bottom of their barrels when they are done counting their wealth, for women who work as hard as the athletes--because they are in fact athletes as well--or you think they should settle for the atavistic status quo and do it as it as has been done since when, 1960??
Let them shut up, except when cheering, and be good docile little sex kitten recruits. Or else fuck em all. They asked for it, so they can just bend over & take it.
:D
Personally I never watch that crap, so it makes no difference to me whether they have cheerleaders or not. But I'd watch the fucking cheerleaders all day long before watching five minutes of those excruciatingly boring games.
Melonie
09-19-2014, 10:52 AM
Those dancers made money from their labor, the cheerleaders did not.
This is technically true in terms of being paid by the Bills owners for time spent in practice and on the sidelines. It is not true regarding certain promotional events where they received payment from 3rd parties. However it is also technically true that many independent contractor dancers do not make money FROM THE CLUBOWNER, but similarly receive payment from 3rd parties. And in both cases, the argument could be made that it was the owner's 'brand' which attracted the paying 3rd parties. Obviously, the NY judge didn't buy into any of these 'owner' oriented viewpoints.
Let them shut up, except when cheering, and be good docile little sex kitten recruits. Or else fuck em all. They asked for it, so they can just bend over & take it.
Not wanting to agitate, but this is EXACTLY what happened with the Buffalo Jills after their 'employee' cheerleader court case was brought. Bills ownership dealt with the issues raised by abolishing the cheerleader squad. Thus the Bills may still be on the hook to pay 'back' minimum wage to former and current Jills cheerleaders. But the Bills will NOT be paying wages or benefit costs for future Jills ... From
(snip)New York Supreme Court Judge Timothy Drury essentially told the team Tuesday. Drury said there was evidence to support the cheerleaders’ claim that they were, in fact, Bills employees, and only in the “nominal employment” of a pair of entertainment companies that run the squad.
The Bills had argued that the team was only involved in its cheerleading squad to guarantee the integrity of the Bills brand. (For that matter, you could say the whole football team exists to maintain brand integrity.)
Anyway, Drury said the Bills’ claim that they have nothing much to do with the cheerleaders was “premature,” noting that one of the cheerleaders, Jaclyn S., had provided an email from her supervisor telling her not just that the Bills own the Jills, but that “they are committed to helping us run an extremely viable business…they are being incredibly supportive and helpful … I will be working much more closely with the Bills.”
Next stop: depositions.
"Judge Drury's decision denied the Bills' scheme to insulate themselves from the illegal cheerleading operation," said the cheerleader’s attorney Marc Panepinto. "We will now have the opportunity to prove the unlawful wage practices by the Bills and their contractors.”
After the cheerleaders filed their lawsuit, which is one of five similar cases in litigation around the country (including two against the Oakland Raiders), the Bills announced that they would suspend their cheerleading operation.(snip)
I would also add that the legal ruling at the heart of this NY Supreme Court decision may also be applicable to NY strip club owners and NY exotic dancers as well.
rickdugan
09-19-2014, 11:59 AM
DJ, I hear your points and I don't disagree about the skilled nature of what cheerleaders do. I also see the case for them deserving recompense. However, the reality is that the market pays for what it wants and cheerleading probably wouldn't draw much of a paying crowd if it was not associated with a sporting event. Right or wrong, there it is.
But I doubt that paying cheerleaders minimum wage is the big issue here anyway, at least for team owners. If you paid a 30 girl squad $10 per hour for 40 hours over 22 weeks (which covers pre-season and regular season), you would come to a grand total of $264k. For round numbers, since minimum wage is a little lower in most places and the girls aren't likely working 40 hours, yet there will be unemployment insurance and SS matches, let's call the number $300k for the year. This is also consistent with what the Raiders recently settled for on a per year basis. This isn't much money for an NFL team compared to most of its other expenses and probably would be worth it for promotional purposes.
The real problem lies in being compelled to treat cheerleaders as statutory employees. I can't even imagine how many ways that this would make teams vulnerable to liability lawsuits, but I'm sure that their lawyers can. For example, how do you stop cheerleaders from sleeping with players? How do you prevent players from soliciting cheerleaders who are not interested in them? How much liability insurance will you need to cover potential cheerleader injuries? How do you prevent rowdy fans, during a live game day. from making the stadium a "hostile work environment" with sexually based or other comments? You can nitpick any one of these I'm sure, but the list goes on. There are simply too many variables to control.
Right or wrong has nothing to do with this. If supporting a cheerleading squad creates more litigation and other exposure than (1) can be controlled; or (2) what it is worth; then a team simply won't do it. Seven teams have already killed their cheerleader squads with barely a hiccup and the rest will likely follow suit if they are forced to make cheerleaders "employees." So which is better, getting a few girls a few bucks now, but killing the opportunity for countless others in the process, or continuing to provide the opportunity even if aspects of it are clearly unfair? Idk, but the girls currently cheerleading for 25 teams have cast their vote, as did the countless number that preceded them.
gameover
09-19-2014, 01:09 PM
Perhaps it's not a perfect analogy, but one that is similar, is the situation with strip clubs. We go to see the dancers. That's why we go to the clubs. From my perspective, the DJ is not a requirement. A jukebox works just as well. Sometimes a DJ can add a bit of diversion, but just as often, they are just a distraction and some DJs seem to just like to hear themselves talk, and can become quite annoying. So, from my perspective, you could remove the DJs without detracting from the experience.
Maybe they have value for the dancers, by "talking them up". I don't know, but if I were a dancer, I'd rather keep my tip, and do without a DJ.
So while you might enjoy watching cheerleaders and paying $80 or more for a seat, I wouldn't.
So to me it is similar. DJs, like cheerleaders, can provide brief entertainment, but are not part of the reason we go to the clubs (or watch games).
Oh, and hating football is as un-American as hating motherhood or apple pie! :)
Jay12
09-19-2014, 05:00 PM
I just find it interesting that these suits aren't filed by current cheerleaders. They are happy with the arrangement. They are filed by ex-cheerleaders who no longer meet the requirements.
They don't sue because they sign waivers saying that while they're cheerleading they can't partake in legal action but once their contracts are over they're free to do so.
They are not "trying to ruin it for everyone else" nor "trying to get money after they're past their prime".
Also, cheerleaders are forbidden to interact with the football players unless told to do so.
gameover
09-19-2014, 06:11 PM
You're so ignorant! They don't sue because they sign waivers saying that while they're cheerleading they can't partake in legal action but once their contracts are over they're free to do so.
They are not "trying to ruin it for everyone else" nor "trying to get money after they're past their prime".
Also, cheerleaders are forbidden to interact with the football players unless told to do so.
Whatever their motives, and I disagree with you on that, the outcome if they win is that they will get back pay for minimum wage. The lawyers are the only ones who win. And if they do win the teams who lose will just drop the squads like the Bills did. So,whatever the intent, they will ruin it for the current cheerleaders.
Djoser
09-20-2014, 12:07 AM
Perhaps it's not a perfect analogy, but one that is similar, is the situation with strip clubs. We go to see the dancers. That's why we go to the clubs. From my perspective, the DJ is not a requirement. A jukebox works just as well. Sometimes a DJ can add a bit of diversion, but just as often, they are just a distraction and some DJs seem to just like to hear themselves talk, and can become quite annoying. So, from my perspective, you could remove the DJs without detracting from the experience.
Maybe they have value for the dancers, by "talking them up". I don't know, but if I were a dancer, I'd rather keep my tip, and do without a DJ.
So while you might enjoy watching cheerleaders and paying $80 or more for a seat, I wouldn't.
So to me it is similar. DJs, like cheerleaders, can provide brief entertainment, but are not part of the reason we go to the clubs (or watch games).
Oh, and hating football is as un-American as hating motherhood or apple pie! :)
I've been to stripclubs with jukeboxes. Even took over in a greatly expanded, former jukebox club that then needed a DJ. They still need a guy to manage rotation and stage skips, etc., or chaos will reign and you will have n empty stage much of the time. Not to mention hearing the same cheezy slow whiny overplayed shit that certain dancers will play over and over again--all of them in that club. There's a lot ore to this discussion, but that would be threadjacking.
I do hear you on the DJ not being any real draw for most guys.
But I would never, ever pay 80$ to watch cheerleaders...
:rotfl:
Patriotism has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not I like watching groups of guys in multi-colored tights running around chasing an inflated ball.
;D
Also, cheerleaders are forbidden to interact with the football players unless told to do so.
If you believe that, I have a bridge in China for sale real cheap he he...
Jay12
09-20-2014, 12:13 AM
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/39807/recreation_and_sports/myths_of_nfl_cheerleaders_unravelled.html
http://www.lemondrop.com/2010/02/16/what-it-s-like-to-be-an-nfl-cheerleader-the-fans-the-pay-th/2
I'm not even going to explain the two links provided on top. Everyone has the right to their own opinions, but nobody has the right to their own facts. I'll leave at that.
Djoser
09-20-2014, 12:19 AM
Thanks for the informative links. Helps to correct some of the more glaring misunderstandings about what the job entails.
I don't doubt there are rules against fraternization, just as there are in so many stripclubs. But I bet those rules work about as well as they do in the stripclubs haha!
gameover
09-20-2014, 04:08 PM
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/39807/recreation_and_sports/myths_of_nfl_cheerleaders_unravelled.html
http://www.lemondrop.com/2010/02/16/what-it-s-like-to-be-an-nfl-cheerleader-the-fans-the-pay-th/2
I'm not even going to explain the two links provided on top. Everyone has the right to their own opinions, but nobody has the right to their own facts. I'll leave at that.
The link just confirms my assertion that it is a hobby. Asked why she does it, she said:
"I love interacting with the fans on game days -- New Orleans really does have the best fans. I love doing community work and being a role model, showing that we are intelligent women who have jobs and go to school. I enjoy dancing and performing, and especially this past season, where we sold out every game, 80,000 fans, and have really gotten our name out there. Now when our song comes on and we make our entrance, the crowd just goes crazy. It's an awesome adrenaline rush. It's so cool. I wish everyone could experience it just once. "
ScarletKitten
09-20-2014, 04:25 PM
Cheerleaders should be "grateful" to cheer for the team? WHY?! Are the players gods? Do they piss liquid gold? Is cheerleading some kind of charity work to help people?! WHO are they helping? The egos of gold-pissing, "godlike" men who run around and throw a ball?!
This is disgusting, and only further illustrates how sexism runs this society. The men get paid millions, but the women get paid pennies. WHY WHY WHY would ANYONE want to be a cheerleader for slave pay?! I guess the sweat drops flying onto the cheerleader's faces from the "gods" who run and throw balls, make up for the shit pay. Maybe they can collect the team's sweat in a jar, sell it on ebay, and actually make money for once.
Holy fuck, I am livid. I need to calm down. After another thread about racism/camming and now this thread, I think I'm about to explode...
gameover
09-20-2014, 06:11 PM
Cheerleaders should be "grateful" to cheer for the team? WHY?! Are the players gods? Do they piss liquid gold? Is cheerleading some kind of charity work to help people?! WHO are they helping? The egos of gold-pissing, "godlike" men who run around and throw a ball?!
This is disgusting, and only further illustrates how sexism runs this society. The men get paid millions, but the women get paid pennies. WHY WHY WHY would ANYONE want to be a cheerleader for slave pay?! I guess the sweat drops flying onto the cheerleader's faces from the "gods" who run and throw balls, make up for the shit pay. Maybe they can collect the team's sweat in a jar, sell it on ebay, and actually make money for once.
Holy fuck, I am livid. I need to calm down. After another thread about racism/camming and now this thread, I think I'm about to explode...
Why are you livid? She says she has a job, this is just something she does for fun.The cheerleader seems happy,thrilled, ecstatic about cheering. She thinks of it as a great opportunity. She explains why she does it--read the quote.
By the way, The charity work is not the actual cheerleading, but public appearances to benefit charities.
Why are you so angry? How do you manage to make a living dancing, when you have such hatred toward men? Everything in life is not about money. She enjoys cheerleading. She loves the adrenaline rush from performing before a crowd.
ScarletKitten
09-20-2014, 06:52 PM
^^Where do you get the assumption that I hate men? I don't hate men. I simply pointed out that the male football players get paid more than the female cheerleaders. This is an illustration of how sexism is rooted into this society. Just because I can recognize sexism, doesn't mean I hate men.
Also, regardless of the fact that she "enjoys" cheerleading, she should be getting paid a decent wage. Are you saying that if a musician enjoys playing live music, he/she shouldn't get paid for it? I also get the feeling that these cheerleaders are brainwashed to feel this way. They have been "programmed" to not mind getting so fucked over. Otherwise, they would walk out on the job. I certainly wouldn't stick around for $17/day. I would rather flip burgers for $7.25/hr., then at least I would make more in 3 hours than cheerleaders make in an entire day.
But hey, if they truly don't mind getting viewed as a sex object and working their asses off for only $17/day or whatever slave pay, then to each her own. I feel sorry for them though. And it enrages me how fucked up and greedy the NFL is. I will not support the NFL.
rickdugan
09-20-2014, 06:55 PM
The link just confirms my assertion that it is a hobby. Asked why she does it, she said:
"I love interacting with the fans on game days -- New Orleans really does have the best fans. I love doing community work and being a role model, showing that we are intelligent women who have jobs and go to school. I enjoy dancing and performing, and especially this past season, where we sold out every game, 80,000 fans, and have really gotten our name out there. Now when our song comes on and we make our entrance, the crowd just goes crazy. It's an awesome adrenaline rush. It's so cool. I wish everyone could experience it just once. "
I wouldn't read too much into an interview soundbite. This doesn't really reinforce your case, but rather just makes it look like you are pushing and trying too hard.
Why are you livid? She says she has a job, this is just something she does for fun.The cheerleader seems happy,thrilled, ecstatic about cheering. She thinks of it as a great opportunity. She explains why she does it--read the quote.
By the way, The charity work is not the actual cheerleading, but public appearances to benefit charities.
Why are you so angry? How do you manage to make a living dancing, when you have such hatred toward men? Everything in life is not about money. She enjoys cheerleading. She loves the adrenaline rush from performing before a crowd.
How you post around here is obviously up to you, but it does become superfluous and repetitive to continue to post the same responses to after-the-fact vents from dancers. And it does not mean that she "hates men" just because she feels that the women are being treated unfairly and doesn't buy into the hype around NFL players. C'mon now dude.
gameover
09-20-2014, 07:15 PM
^^Where do you get the assumption that I hate men? I don't hate men. I simply pointed out that the male football players get paid more than the female cheerleaders. This is an illustration of how sexism is rooted into this society. Just because I can recognize sexism, doesn't mean I hate men.
Also, regardless of the fact that she "enjoys" cheerleading, she should be getting paid a decent wage. Are you saying that if a musician enjoys playing live music, he/she shouldn't get paid for it? I also get the feeling that these cheerleaders are brainwashed to feel this way. They have been "programmed" to not mind getting so fucked over. Otherwise, they would walk out on the job. I certainly wouldn't stick around for $17/day. I would rather flip burgers for $7.25/hr., then at least I would make more in 3 hours than cheerleaders make in an entire day.
But hey, if they truly don't mind getting viewed as a sex object and working their asses off for only $17/day or whatever slave pay, then to each her own. I feel sorry for them though. And it enrages me how fucked up and greedy the NFL is. I will not support the NFL.
We live in a capitalistic society, which runs on supply and demand. Of course the players make a ton of money. It's because they they generate billions in revenue for the NFL. They are also a very scarce resource. Cheerleaders generate insignificant income for the NFL, and the available supply is nearly unlimited. Do you seriously question why football players earn more?
This is not a job. Cheerleaders practice a couple nights a week, and perform on 8 Sundays For three hours. This is a hobby they do for fun. And frankly, I think a lot of them DO "do it" because they like being viewed as a sex object, and as a celebrity for a few hours on Sunday, before they return to their job on Monday. And all year long they can brag that they are an NFL cheerleader who is watched by millions on Sundays.
gameover
09-20-2014, 07:26 PM
How you post around here is obviously up to you, but it does become superfluous and repetitive to continue to post the same responses to after-the-fact vents from dancers.
One of my pet peeves is the plague of frivolous lawsuits we have. And the assertion that cheerleaders should be paid as players, etc. etc. just pushes my buttons too. So, please excuse me while I do a little venting of my own.
audrey_k
09-20-2014, 08:41 PM
I was a cheerleader.... I fucked hated it, but I did it for years because all my friends did it. Put a bunch of 13-17 year old girls together in a stressful environment that focuses on how you look and you have a recipe for cattiness.
But it was hard, honestly, harder than being a dancer. I remember we had 12 hours of practice a week, that was on top of spending every commercial on TV stretching, the hours of practicing everyday so you don't continually get bumped to the back. My friend was a song girl at university (we had cheerleaders and song girls, song girls actually danced and cheerleaders just swung their pompons around) and she practiced 15, 5 3hr practices. I don't know how much footballers practice, but football was a religion at my university and those guys got cut major slack-- from missing tons of classes, getting extensions on papers, extensions on exams, and who knows what else was going on under the surface. My friend never got any kind of extension or cut any slack.
Unfortunately it's just the age old adage of "it's a woman's job to look pretty and she shouldn't be paid for it." Cheerleading has changed a lot over the years though, and there's definitely different kinds-- I did competitive cheerleading where we competed at meets against a bunch of other teams, so we had a set routine that included dance, stunts, and tumbling. I've seen cheerleaders perform with teams that were obviously putting in the same amount of effort/practice but I've also seen some really lazy cheerleaders who just smile and flip their hair... in that scenario I don't believe you should be pulling down 50k a year, though definitely more than they are being paid now.
Vyanka
09-21-2014, 03:30 AM
Football sucks.
oldster
09-21-2014, 05:12 AM
I am so bored with this bankrupt ideology of how oh, capitalism is fair, the market decides.
bullshit.
Capitalism is just a system of exchanging money, it has no morals. Morality is made by people making personal decisions to do the right thing.
And guess what, a good chunk of the people make poor decisions, wrong decisions and evil decisions.
And they do not suffer in the market for it. The market is not about morality , it is just about money
There is a small group of billionaires treating a small part of their workforce very poorly. Used to be a man was proud to treat his employees well, well these are very poor examples of men, and yes, they are all men
Just because the cheerleaders, or beer vendors, or toilet cleaners or the scoreboard guy or the window washer person does not bring people into the stadium is no reason for a billionaire to treat them as sub human.
the fact that they happen to be female in a male dominated business is no surprise.
It annoys the crap out of me how this right wing crap has permeated conversation and opinion as if it is fact
Capitalism is not a god to be worshiped, it is fallible, capricious and left to its own devices downright evil on occasion.
To argue otherwise is to have no historical perspective.
whirlerz
09-21-2014, 06:54 AM
Well, said, O!^ I gotta say this thread's getting pretty heated & stressing me a bit. Which's why I keep bumpin' the 'Jack & Jill' thread. :)
bacardi14
09-21-2014, 07:14 AM
I have mixed feelings on this. I was a cheerleader for 17 years. I cheered through college until I was 22.
I'm really surprised no one on here has brought up the fact that these girls are NOT cheerleaders, they are dancers (with the exception of maybe 1-2 teams). But I won't get into semantics. I guess that just speaks to how little attention America actually pays to the cheerleaders, and kind of proves the NFL's point.
Did you know that the teams that do have cheerleaders (not dancers) have male members? The Baltimore Ravens have male cheerleaders. The Green Bay Packers use college cheerleaders to perform at games. Some are also male.
But anyway, I really don't see how different this is from college or high school sports (for the ladies anyway). We practiced every single day after school. Had weekend practices. Had 'two a days' before big competitions or events (practiced two hours after school, went home, came back and did a couple more hours later that night). We missed school, traveled with the team. Cheered for football, basketball, volleyball, pep rallys, competitions, community events. College is even more work. No one gets paid and you do it because you love it.
I understand pro "cheerleading" is getting a lot of attention because the players in this situation are making money, and they aren't in the case of high school or college (at least not openly). and I'm sure they could go ahead and pay the girls more without breaking the bank. BUT... many of these girls are college or grad school girls who are still living at home or getting financial aid. Or they are married and have support from the husband. I'm not saying it's fair to someone who wants very badly to cheer for the NFL but they can't manage it financially due to dismal "pay", but cheerleading and sports never were fair in that way. As long as it's looked upon as an enjoyable hobby by most of the girls and the people who write the checks it's not going to change.
I also do see the liability / legal aspect that was pointed out earlier. For example, this has long been an issue with high school and college cheerleading being considered a sport. If cheerleading was made a sport it would be subject to all kinds of regulations that the cheerleaders and coaches themselves don't want. Watering down the routines, not being allowed to perform certain stunts, etc. When I was cheering for a college team we were considered a "sport" at that school and I had to wake up at 4am if someone called me to come in for a random drug test, miss sleep, potentially screw up an exam I may have been planning to study for that morning... no thanks. I would have preferred keeping our "club" status or whatever it was considered before being a sport.
^^ I guess what I'm trying to say is that making them real employees who get paid decently may have unintended consequences. But regardless, I do believe that as long as there is sufficient supply of willing cheerleaders/dancers, coupled with indifference of the American public and inability to draw massive revenue on their own (it's been made pretty clear that people aren't paying hundreds of dollars for tickets to see the cheerleaders)... things will either stay the same or they will just 86 the cheer team.
My friend was a song girl at university (we had cheerleaders and song girls, song girls actually danced and cheerleaders just swung their pompons around) and she practiced 15, 5 3hr practices. I don't know how much footballers practice, but football was a religion at my university and those guys got cut major slack-- from missing tons of classes, getting extensions on papers, extensions on exams, and who knows what else was going on under the surface. My friend never got any kind of extension or cut any slack.
Did you go to USC? Don't get me wrong, I completely respect the dance teams (I danced too and it was a lot of work), but cheerleaders don't just swing their pom poms. I don't know of any college cheer teams that don't stunt, tumble, jump, and dance as well. Many college cheer teams perform the same tumbling as level 8. 9. and 10 gymnasts. Unfortunately (in my opinion) they still have to perform cheers at games in between the stunting and tumbling. Cheers suck, lol
oldster
09-21-2014, 07:19 AM
>>>>>>>>> I gotta say this thread's getting pretty heated & stressing me a bit. Which's why I keep bumpin' the 'Jack & Jill' thread.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Oh, I know, I thought Kelly was going to make it fun, but I guess she doesn't appreciate my sense of humor. Or she thinks I give lousy head.
Oh, damn, what if I have a lousy sense of humor and I can't east pussy to save my life. Shit.
[sob]
I better go hang out with some strippers, they always make me feel better...............
oh,wait............
damn
[sob]
gameover
09-21-2014, 07:24 AM
Football sucks.
Ouch, that hurts :)
michele11
09-21-2014, 07:35 AM
One of my pet peeves is the plague of frivolous lawsuits we have. And the assertion that cheerleaders should be paid as players, etc. etc. just pushes my buttons too. So, please excuse me while I do a little venting of my own.
No one said they should make as much as players but not 17 a day! With your analogies on this I can only guess how you feel about ray rice and that other ass hole! I was appauled a few of my dancer friends are like " just because he made one mistake doesn't forgo everything he did for the Ravens. None of them are returning their Jerseys. I don't get the mind set of hardcore sports fans. if you all didn't make these teams billions it would be a different ballgame. what happened to playing for the love of the sport. Maybe the ball players should just play because, you know they love to.
gameover
09-21-2014, 08:01 AM
No one said they should make as much as players but not 17 a day! With your analogies on this I can only guess how you feel about ray rice and that other ass hole! I was appauled a few of my dancer friends are like " just because he made one mistake doesn't forgo everything he did for the Ravens. None of them are returning their Jerseys. I don't get the mind set of hardcore sports fans. if you all didn't make these teams billions it would be a different ballgame. what happened to playing for the love of the sport. Maybe the ball players should just play because, you know they love to.
What Ray Rice did was horrible and inexcusable. Before I saw the elevator video, I thought the his two game suspension was ridiculously small. After seeing the video, I don't think he should be allowed to play again.
And Adrian Petersen "switching" his child for discipline, and leaving bloody wounds, should also be gone.
Both should serve time for their acts.
I love football dearly, but I don't condone this type of behavior in anyone!
And, I would love to see football return to playing for the love of the game.
Optimist
09-21-2014, 04:09 PM
Jay12 here's a little rebuttal for ya'! http://blog.vh1.com/2013-09-30/basketball-wives-flashback-catching-up-with-royce-reed/ There's always guys and gals who do whatever they want regardless of the rules.
Kellydancer
09-21-2014, 09:58 PM
>>>>>>>>> I gotta say this thread's getting pretty heated & stressing me a bit. Which's why I keep bumpin' the 'Jack & Jill' thread.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Oh, I know, I thought Kelly was going to make it fun, but I guess she doesn't appreciate my sense of humor. Or she thinks I give lousy head.
Oh, damn, what if I have a lousy sense of humor and I can't east pussy to save my life. Shit.
[sob]
I better go hang out with some strippers, they always make me feel better...............
oh,wait............
damn
[sob]
I hear you give lousy head :D.
Jay12
09-22-2014, 12:32 AM
Jay12 here's a little rebuttal for ya'! http://blog.vh1.com/2013-09-30/basketball-wives-flashback-catching-up-with-royce-reed/ There's always guys and gals who do whatever they want regardless of the rules.
This link had nothing to do with the NFL. It was some "basketball wife". The NBA might be different.
Djoser
09-22-2014, 03:11 PM
We live in a capitalistic society, which runs on supply and demand. Of course the players make a ton of money. It's because they they generate billions in revenue for the NFL. They are also a very scarce resource. Cheerleaders generate insignificant income for the NFL, and the available supply is nearly unlimited. Do you seriously question why football players earn more?
I've seen 'We live in a capitalist society...' used to justify why strippers should give cheap blowjobs many, many times here (though admittedly mostly in the blue sections and CC). ETA not that you would be so craven as to do this, gameover. But that argument has no moral basis whatsoever, and neither does this.
No one is questioning the fact that rabid sports fans make this travesty of justice possible, the same way they make it possible for a convicted torturer and murderer of innocent animals to be cheered & praised because he can toss an inflated ball around. Along with the wife-beaters, rapists, etc.
On a personal, emotional level, I do question why it is that millions of (mostly men) will get so jacked up about guys running around in tights playing with their balls that they are screaming and pounding the tables out in public, starting fights with other guys over which group of men wearing tights is best, and beating their women for interfering with the televised games. (Guess which day of the year is top in wife beating frequency? Yeah, the fucking Super Bowl).
On a scientific level, one only has to read a little history to see it is just a facet of human nature. The Blues and the Greens rioting over chariot races nearly brought the latter day Eastern Roman Empire crashing to ruins. Justinian 'the not so Great' wanted to run away. His wife Theodora, a former dancer & prostitute, saved the Eastern Empire for many centuries t come by making him stay & face the fucking music.
^^Where do you get the assumption that I hate men? I don't hate men. I simply pointed out that the male football players get paid more than the female cheerleaders. This is an illustration of how sexism is rooted into this society. Just because I can recognize sexism, doesn't mean I hate men.
Also, regardless of the fact that she "enjoys" cheerleading, she should be getting paid a decent wage. Are you saying that if a musician enjoys playing live music, he/she shouldn't get paid for it? I also get the feeling that these cheerleaders are brainwashed to feel this way. They have been "programmed" to not mind getting so fucked over. Otherwise, they would walk out on the job. I certainly wouldn't stick around for $17/day. I would rather flip burgers for $7.25/hr., then at least I would make more in 3 hours than cheerleaders make in an entire day.
But hey, if they truly don't mind getting viewed as a sex object and working their asses off for only $17/day or whatever slave pay, then to each her own. I feel sorry for them though. And it enrages me how fucked up and greedy the NFL is. I will not support the NFL.
Precisely.
Once and for all. No one here is questioning how or why the NFL is able to legally justify one group of trained athletes in a multi-billion dollar industry being paid millions each, and another group of highly trained athletes being paid...diddly, jackshit, nada...oh but they get to be GOOD little sex slave girls who can meet RICH men and be eye candy for Life...
Where's a vomit smiley when you need one...
:rotfl:
How they are able to morally justify it? Same kind of logic used to defend Rice and say a two game suspension for nearly breaking his woman's jaw ought to be enough.
Football sucks.
Have I told you that I love you yet?
In a completely platonic and non-threatening way, and I am 2,000 miles away anyway.
Djoser
09-22-2014, 03:19 PM
I was a cheerleader....
But it was hard, honestly...I remember we had 12 hours of practice a week, that was on top of spending every commercial on TV stretching, the hours of practicing everyday so you don't continually get bumped to the back. My friend...practiced 15, 5 3hr practices. I don't know how much footballers practice, but football was a religion at my university and those guys got cut major slack-- from missing tons of classes, getting extensions on papers, extensions on exams, and who knows what else was going on under the surface. My friend never got any kind of extension or cut any slack.
So what? Some girl wrote that she actually had fun doing it, so none of you should get paid anything at all!
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
gameover
09-22-2014, 06:36 PM
I've seen 'We live in a capitalist society...' used to justify why strippers should give cheap blowjobs many, many times here (though admittedly mostly in the blue sections and CC). ETA not that you would be so craven as to do this, gameover. But that argument has no moral basis whatsoever, and neither does this.
No one is questioning the fact that rabid sports fans make this travesty of justice possible, the same way they make it possible for a convicted torturer and murderer of innocent animals to be cheered & praised because he can toss an inflated ball around. Along with the wife-beaters, rapists, etc.
On a personal, emotional level, I do question why it is that millions of (mostly men) will get so jacked up about guys running around in tights playing with their balls that they are screaming and pounding the tables out in public, starting fights with other guys over which group of men wearing tights is best, and beating their women for interfering with the televised games. (Guess which day of the year is top in wife beating frequency? Yeah, the fucking Super Bowl).
Once and for all. No one here is questioning how or why the NFL is able to legally justify one group of trained athletes in a multi-billion dollar industry being paid millions each, and another group of highly trained athletes being paid...diddly, jackshit, nada...oh but they get to be GOOD little sex slave girls who can meet RICH men and be eye candy for Life.
You don't like football, I get it. I don't know if you had some childhood trauma related to football, or what. I don't think it strengthens your argument by trying to belittle the fans or the sport. Football is just a fun sport that many enjoy watching. Sure, they aren't curing cancer. But come on, you play CDs for a living. Some things in life can just be done for fun.
My issue with this is that the NFL set up the squads as a fun thing women could volunteer for and enjoy for reasons already described. They provided as a courtesy, a small per diem, to help cover expenses. Then the cheerleaders come along and sue for more money. They are in the wrong here.
It would be similar to this scenario. You volunteer some time at a nursing home, and they provide you with lunch on the days you are there, as thanks. You then turn around and sue them, asking for back pay. You don't deserve back pay, because you are a volunteer. You knew that going in. You would be in the wrong, wouldn't you agree?
Just because the owners are rich, doesn't mean we are allowed to steal and extort money from them. If you don't like this system, maybe you should try out a socialist or communist country.
simone87
09-23-2014, 11:14 AM
yes, "extorting" money from disgustingly wealthy assholes , and wanting to be paid for doing a time-consuming physically demanding job that they created is soo wrong..
oldster
09-23-2014, 11:26 AM
gameover
you are seriously factually challenged
the teams make significant demands of the cheerleaders. Including time demands pretty much precluding a full time job.
Lets not let facts get in the way of a good chance to call everyone who disagrees with you a socialist.
As a matter of fact suing for justice is a capitalist mainstay, something these very team owners do on a regular basis
Jay12
09-23-2014, 11:31 AM
My issue with this is that the NFL set up the squads as a fun thing women could volunteer for and enjoy for reasons already described. They provided as a courtesy, a small per diem, to help cover expenses. Then the cheerleaders come along and sue for more money. They are in the wrong here.
It would be similar to this scenario. You volunteer some time at a nursing home, and they provide you with lunch on the days you are there, as thanks. You then turn around and sue them, asking for back pay. You don't deserve back pay, because you are a volunteer. You knew that going in. You would be in the wrong, wouldn't you agree?
Just because the owners are rich, doesn't mean we are allowed to steal and extort money from them. If you don't like this system, maybe you should try out a socialist or communist country.
There is never anything that implies that cheerleaders are cheerleading voluntarily. Second, like other users had already mentioned, you really have no idea what cheerleading really entails and you seem to not be informed about all the out of pocket expenses those cheerleaders have to pay. It's asinine for them NOT to get a pay raise.
They are not extorting anyone; they're simply asking to be paid according to what they have to spend in order to cheer (eg. makeup, hair, possible plastic surgery, etc).
What are you going to say next? That you're a libertarian who worship the free market, that they can't be asking for more, and to go fuck themselves?
michele11
09-23-2014, 01:40 PM
Yesterday I was watching the morning show and they had the bucs cheerleaders on. They were all talking about what an honor it is and the one girl said she tried out three times. She was a marine and has a day job and two girls. I must say I've never really seen any cheer( as I don't watch football) but they did and they sucked! All they did was do like a britney spares type routine. They flipped they're heads from side to side in synchronisity and circled they're pom poms around really fast. They weren't really that together. They said they practice twice a week. They also showed a clip( and spoke to two lady coaches) from a reality show called making the team( about Dallas cowboy cheeleaders) that was ridiculous how rude they were to the woman. I always thought that team had the hottest woman. Idk the woman they spoke with were just really thrilled to be able to say they are with whatever team. Kinda like dancers. The ones that do it for free drinks all night and to say their dancers. I'm sure there are some just happy to do it and some that think they should make tons and tons. I feel they should make a set pay per game. Say 200 or something. Not an hourly wage.
gameover
09-23-2014, 05:49 PM
Let's just agree to disagree. It's just sad that so many think the path to success is just to sue someone, instead of study and hard work.
It reminds me of a culture I studied in anthropology class in college. If any member of the village had too much success on their farm, they believed it was due to the farmer working in league with evil spirits, so they would trash the successful person's farm. As a result this village never rose above the poverty level, because anyone showing prosperity was brought down to the level of the laziest, least successful person in the village. More and more, I think this is what America has become.
simone87
09-23-2014, 06:00 PM
^ so cheerleaders are lazy, and the people who refuse to pay them got rich by honest hard work?? ok dude...
gameover
09-23-2014, 06:57 PM
^ so cheerleaders are lazy, and the people who refuse to pay them got rich by honest hard work?? ok dude...
Cheerleaders who sue, yes. The fact is, you can't earn a living cheerleading. They should go to school and learn a marketable skill. Even if they work hard as a cheerleader, they will never make money doing so, because that skill is not valued in the economy. You can bitch and moan about how cheerleading should pay millions, or you can look at the job market, and see what jobs are in demand and pay well.
And while some rich people certainly inherited it, the original fortunes were earned by hard work. That might have been using their brain instead of a shovel, but it was hard work.
I grew up in a lower middle class family. My dad blasted hardened chemicals off huge storage tanks using a jackhammer. I worked my way through college and through hard work, I now live quite comfortably.
simone87
09-23-2014, 07:07 PM
if they cannot pay the girls a livable wage ( not millions, but i know for a fact that if they can pay those jughead baboons millions to throw a damn ball, they can pay the girls a semi-livable wage) then they shouldn't have created the job and taken all their time up, preventing them from working a second job. they have every right to sue the shit out of those sleazy assholes, who can't seem to part with a tiny bit for the female athletes they employ and use
KikiGem
09-23-2014, 07:16 PM
Soo they can afford to pay the players absurd amounts for running around a field but not the cheerleaders risking their necks?? OK THEN! No wonder women cut off penises
gameover
09-23-2014, 07:23 PM
if they cannot pay the girls a livable wage ( not millions, but i know for a fact that if they can pay those jughead baboons millions to throw a damn ball, they can pay the girls a semi-livable wage) then they shouldn't have created the job and taken all their time up, preventing them from working a second job. they have every right to sue the shit out of those sleazy assholes, who can't seem to part with a tiny bit for the female athletes they employ and use
Cheerleading is not a job in the NFL. Period. If you want to cheerlead as a hobby, go for it. Otherwise, there are many jobs that pay a good wage. These ex-cheerleaders may win a very small settlement, the NFL will cancel the squads, and all of the cheerleaders who like it will be screwed over because of these lawsuits. Whine: " But the NFL should pay big bucks because they have millions". You don't stay a millionaire if you piss away money on stuff like this. If you can't understand this, I hope you save a lot during your stripping career, because you won't be earning money using business prowess.
I think Rick was right, this is like talking to a stone wall, so, I will leave this thread in peace.
simone87
09-23-2014, 07:39 PM
you're right it IS like talking to a stone!! i never said millions, i said a LIVABLE WAGE. yes, i'm sure that would put a big dent in their bank account. "pissing away money" on women who work their assess off for these guys
rickdugan
09-24-2014, 08:26 AM
I think Rick was right, this is like talking to a stone wall, so, I will leave this thread in peace.
Leave me out of this dude. You've been goading the ladies for several posts now and I want no part of it.
I just said that forcing clubs to give cheerleaders employee status would be bad for everyone as many clubs would likely close the squads down if this happened. I also expressed my belief that the issue is not what they would need to pay the cheerleaders, which is really a pittance compared to many of their other expenses, but rather the other uncontrollable liability issues that go with employee status.
The only thing that irks me about this lawsuit is that 13 girls, who likely did not experience the same level of success as other girls who cheered, could deprive generations of future cheerleaders of the enormous opportunities that NFL cheerleading can provide, all in an effort to grab a few bucks on the back-end. They were grown adults who did this willingly, no doubt seeing future dollar signs in their eyes, but now they are crying victim because it did not work out for them, unlike many who have cashed in on the opportunity. The whole thing just stinks of sour grapes.
But with all of that said, if cheerleading is as time consuming and option limiting as some have made it out to be, then I am all in favor of current and future cheerleaders lobbying for more money, such as in the form of increased honorariums. One hope I have is that the teams involved will settle the lawsuit out of court, thereby avoiding a ruling on the issue of employee status, and increase the honorariums to a more realistic level. IMHO that would be a win-win for everyone.
whirlerz
09-24-2014, 08:31 AM
I hear you give lousy head :D.
Ah. Speaking frm experience??
Djoser
09-25-2014, 11:08 AM
I don't know if you had some childhood trauma related to football, or what.
No, you don't know. So kindly stop trying to derail the argument by bringing up my childhood. Or for that matter my profession, as you have done twice now:
But come on, you play CDs for a living. Some things in life can just be done for fun.
Again, you don't know..a goddamned thing about DJing. I stopped using CDs almost ten years ago, as have the vast majority of SCDJs.
I'm not sure what kind of point you are trying to make about the profession here this time, but I can only assume it isn't good, judging from your previous post slamming DJs even though they have nothing whatsoever to do with football or cheerleading.
Just because the owners are rich, doesn't mean we are allowed to steal and extort money from them.
What planet are you on, where the cheerleaders are trying to steal and extort money from the poor mistreated victimized team owners?? Because this thread is not about that. It is about cheerleaders deserving to be paid for hard work and athletic skill.
If you don't like this system, maybe you should try out a socialist or communist country.
If you don't like what we are saying here, maybe you should try out another fucking forum (and quit insulting the professionals here).
I'm sure you can go find some kind of forum where the guys will agree that cheerleaders asking to be paid a minimal wage for their athletic skill and hard work is the same thing as extortion and robbery.
:rotfl:
Optimist
09-25-2014, 11:27 AM
This link had nothing to do with the NFL. It was some "basketball wife". The NBA might be different.
Nooo, that was the name of her show but she was a cheerleader who "fraternized" and got knocked up by a football player.
Just having a hoot, doll!
ScarletKitten
09-25-2014, 02:49 PM
LMFAO- I love you, Djoser! You saved this thread, so thank you. :-*
Gameover, it's GAME OVER for you. Your name is like a self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it? :rotfl:
39093
michele11
09-25-2014, 02:50 PM
if they cannot pay the girls a livable wage ( not millions, but i know for a fact that if they can pay those jughead baboons millions to throw a damn ball, they can pay the girls a semi-livable wage) then they shouldn't have created the job and taken all their time up, preventing them from working a second job. they have every right to sue the shit out of those sleazy assholes, who can't seem to part with a tiny bit for the female athletes they employ and use
Simone, all the girls I saw on the show with the Bucs cheerleaders and the ones on making the team said they had jobs.
audrey_k
09-25-2014, 05:53 PM
Cheerleaders who sue, yes. The fact is, you can't earn a living cheerleading. They should go to school and learn a marketable skill. Even if they work hard as a cheerleader, they will never make money doing so, because that skill is not valued in the economy. You can bitch and moan about how cheerleading should pay millions, or you can look at the job market, and see what jobs are in demand and pay well.
And while some rich people certainly inherited it, the original fortunes were earned by hard work. That might have been using their brain instead of a shovel, but it was hard work.
I grew up in a lower middle class family. My dad blasted hardened chemicals off huge storage tanks using a jackhammer. I worked my way through college and through hard work, I now live quite comfortably.
OK, I wasn't going to come back to this thread but your comments have just set me over the edge. The fact that you're comparing wanting to be paid a LEGAL WAGE-- yes, these ladies would make more flipping burgers than flipping in the air-- to extortion, robbery, or being in a communist/socialist country is absolutely ridiculous, to the point of being laughable.
Cheerleading is not what it was in the past, it has DRASTICALLY changed over the years. I was a cheerleader for 4 long years and it is a mixture of gymnastics, dance, stunts, chanting, and while you're doing all of the above, smiling and engaging with the crowd. As a stripper I will say it makes dancing on a pole look like drinking glass of water. If you want to become a professional cheerleader, we are talking 10+ years of dance/gymnastics training-- you can't just walk up and say "I'm pretty I want to be a Laker Girl!" I have two friends that continued cheer past high school. One got a scholarship to university, but after 7 years of cheerleading her back was so fucked up from all the tumbling she had to quit after a year, drop out of uni, and she has major back problems that will probably cost her thousands of dollars in the years to come. When I was cheerleading we had at least one person break a leg or a wrist a season, if not more, and I know several other girls that have had physical problems as a result of just 4-6 years of cheerleading-- I also did competitive gymnastics and I saw as many injuries, if not more, with cheerleading as gymnastics. My other friend spends 15 hours a week practicing with a team as her dream is to become a Laker Girl. She is 25 years old and she has been cheerleading since she was 12. Both of these ladies have put in JUST as much effort and time into their profession as you have, and do they deserve to make 2 mil a year? No... But they certainly deserve to make at least minimum wage!
Watch this video and tell me if you can do ANY of the shit these girls are doing. This is the training it would require to make an NFL/NBA cheerleading team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHHlX92NYBY
gameover
09-25-2014, 07:17 PM
OK, I wasn't going to come back to this thread but your comments have just set me over the edge. The fact that you're comparing wanting to be paid a LEGAL WAGE-- yes, these ladies would make more flipping burgers than flipping in the air-- to extortion, robbery, or being in a communist/socialist country is absolutely ridiculous, to the point of being laughable.
Cheerleading is not what it was in the past, it has DRASTICALLY changed over the years. I was a cheerleader for 4 long years and it is a mixture of gymnastics, dance, stunts, chanting, and while you're doing all of the above, smiling and engaging with the crowd. As a stripper I will say it makes dancing on a pole look like drinking glass of water. If you want to become a professional cheerleader, we are talking 10+ years of dance/gymnastics training-- you can't just walk up and say "I'm pretty I want to be a Laker Girl!" I have two friends that continued cheer past high school. One got a scholarship to university, but after 7 years of cheerleading her back was so fucked up from all the tumbling she had to quit after a year, drop out of uni, and she has major back problems that will probably cost her thousands of dollars in the years to come. When I was cheerleading we had at least one person break a leg or a wrist a season, if not more, and I know several other girls that have had physical problems as a result of just 4-6 years of cheerleading-- I also did competitive gymnastics and I saw as many injuries, if not more, with cheerleading as gymnastics. My other friend spends 15 hours a week practicing with a team as her dream is to become a Laker Girl. She is 25 years old and she has been cheerleading since she was 12. Both of these ladies have put in JUST as much effort and time into their profession as you have, and do they deserve to make 2 mil a year? No... But they certainly deserve to make at least minimum wage!
Watch this video and tell me if you can do ANY of the shit these girls are doing. This is the training it would require to make an NFL/NBA cheerleading team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHHlX92NYBY
I hadn't planned to post any further in this thread, but if folks are gonna continue to direct comments at me, let me just respond with a couple comments.
Audrey, I don't dispute that the cheerleading you are referring to requires great skill, great commitment and a huge amount of practice. I have seen cheerleader competitions on ESPN, and they are amazing to watch. It certainly is as difficult as any other sport. I am not disputing that. However, cheerleading in the NFL is nothing like it, at least at the games I've been to or seen on TV. Essentially, in the NFL, they stand on the sidelines and shake pom poms. They do a little more than that, but not much. They do none of the physical routines that you are describing.
Perhaps extortion is too strongly charged word to use, but my point is, that from a legal perspective, they are not employees, they are volunteers. They are trying to use the legal system to change that to be treated as an employee. One of my pet peeves is the frivolous law suits that plague America today. Getting burned by MCDonald's coffee and suing for millions of dollars. Guess what, coffee is supposed to be hot.
Right or wrong, the NFL doesn't consider it a job worth paying for. If you don't want to cheerlead for them as a volunteer, move on. They are not obligated to create a new job/position called cheerleader. In fact, there are many women who would kill for the chance to be a volunteer cheerleader. They turn away thousands every year.
If the legal system decides that this is, in fact a job, and not a volunteer position, then the NFL would have to either pay minimum wage, or cancel the cheerleading squads. Most likely, if the NFL is forced to treat cheerleading as a job, they will just cancel the squads.
Consider, that even if the NFL kept the cheerleaders and paid minimum wage, that would still amount to a very part time job, certainly not enough to live on. They practice twice a week for 4 hours, and they perform at 8 home games per year. So this job would be for 11 hours per week for eight weeks. That's about 88 hours per year of paid time (plus any special appearances). A regular job is 1,680 hours per year.
Is 88 hours a year a job or a hobby? Is there more value to the cheerleaders to get the exposure and future career benefits from the prestige of being an NFL cheerleader as a cheerleader, or to risk all that for the chance to be paid minimum wage for 88 hours per year? Especially given that the NFL seems inclined to just cancel the squads rather than deal with this.