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LaPetiteVierge
09-17-2014, 06:58 PM
Here's a perspective from an adult entertainer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVxE_5cerrI

I'll edit this post and add more as I come across it.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-17-2014, 07:12 PM
When I first setup for camming, I had my hair done, my very simple and sexy outfit looking nice, a nice camera, a clean backdrop, and everything in order. An assortment of toys, a few outfits, everything.
I didn't get nude. I didn't stand up. I didn't dance around.
I got called nigger more times than I can count. I was told to show my "black pussy". I was told that I needed to stop being "stingy". I made a dollar.
I engaged with the room, ignored the negative people, and still came out on bottom.
I'm dark skinned with light eyes. Nearly every "compliment" I got was on my eyes or my "cute little nose".
I don't say this to say that my experience is every experience, but I do say that to say that I think I'm not the only one who's ever gotten told that there are race-based implications that we are worth less. I think every cammer with higher rates or who holds out for tokens gets told to charge less or do something for free. I don't think they at all add racial implications for that in the case of white women.

I know that non-white cammers very often give out freebies. I also know that a lot of BBW cammers do the same. I think it's because we're given a sense of devaluation and not without merit to that. It's really up to us to put forth the work to pay the bills, but there's still a barrier there and a trend in what I've seen and experienced.

If you are going to continue camming you will get used to "black pussy" "black ass" "black titties" etc etc Your color is the very first thing they see. Or another one 'ive never been with a black girl before' 'do you like white boys?' I get that one all day long. Even made a sign that said "Yes I love white men. Please stop asking." Had to take it down because the black customers thought I was disregarding them. It was just a joke. Race is a factor. Ive been told I charge too much because of my color and my size. My prices are middle of the road I think. But compared to my direct competition you would think I was a Bentley. In my mind I think I am. My confidence with a touch of arrogance gets me through. Race matters to the consumers and it shows with comments like "Damn you one of the finest black girls on here". I have to smile through that. Because it's not a compliment. Also other things that play a factor in my opinion is the way I speak. I've gotten request to sound more ethnic ie GHETTO "Hey you think you can talk like a hood bitch?" Yup I get that a lot. I'm an Afro Latina who speaks Spanish fluently. I have dark skin and curly hair. I wear wigs on cam because the natural do doesn't make me money. In the past I would never advertise myself as Latina because *shrugs* I dunno why. But now I am sure to mention it and have been added to Latina categories. Since letting it be known that I can speak Spanish suddenly my stock has gone up. Now Im exotic. Interesting. Sexy. Im still the same person as before but it's amazing with a bit of tweaking and marketing can do.

JaneBurgess
09-17-2014, 07:12 PM
Please post actual facts on here and not just your theories or assumptions. Then we can have an actual conversation, right now it's just your opinion.

I'm also not trying to be rude or fight with you. I just see a lot of talk without any actual proof.

I also saw you said people called you black this and that. They do that to everyone no matter the race. It's just a dumb asshole that has a sorry life that wants to harass someone for fun. Sadly it's a part of camming we all have to deal with, that's why I wish they would turn off free chat and only do group and private shows. Free chat is annoying.




I think it's really weird that, rather than say that the recurring idea that black women < all other women is racist, you say that this thread is racist to white people. Calling Asian people "lazy" is in no way similar beyond making a generalized statement about a race of people. That's inherently insulting. If anything, the conversation I had was racist mostly towards black people in implying that they do the worst and are viewed as the worst. As far as I can tell, you're the only person offended right now.
There is no "race card". There's fact and there's opinion/experience/perspective and there's lies. I don't have the statistically data to back up the conversation and claims of my friend. I know what I've seen and I have seen a trend in that white women and white passing garner more favor and attention than minorities on most sites. I know of perspectives from pornstars who speak of the racial prejudice and bias they experience in the porn industry (including not getting paid as much as white performers). I know from my own experience in camming as a person of color.
Also, I didn't dismiss GlamourRogue. I responded to her in the entirety of her post at length, despite not knowing where the majority of what she said was coming from.

I don't know you from a hole in the wall. You've got that right. I can tell you this though: Your experience, your opinion, and your perspective as someone who is a white passing Latina woman who isn't marketing herself as "Latina" or "Exotic" or "Cuban" can differ wildly beyond what you'll ever get to know from someone else's. You have the right to your opinion 100%, but just like I don't know you, you don't know me either. I'm not here to argue. Arguing doesn't pay bills. If you want to have an actual discussion about this, we can do that, but otherwise, there's no point in having this yelling contest.

SarahTime
09-17-2014, 07:20 PM
I will be the first to admit that my entire perception comes from 100% white girl here. lol :) I think that because myself, I could absolutely care less about the color of a persons skin or where they are from, I really feel like I don't even "see" color when I interact with people and I try very hard to teach my kids the same. So I think that because it is a non-issue to me, I tend to hear about issues that non white/non American people face and think that there has to be something else, be it personal choices or culture that perpetuates these cycles. I guess it must just be how I was raised, in very liberal WA state, so yah... I just always wonder how much of this is self perpetuating. I don't know if that sounds bad, I don't mean it bad, I just don't know how to exactly word what I'm thinking.

I would really hate to know that someone choose me for something, the person they decide to do a cam show with or the person that gets hired for a job, anything, JUST because I was white. I think that would be really shitty because there's so much more to PEOPLE than their skin or where they are from. I just can't imagine being a person who thinks that way, "oh you're black? no." or "oh you're white? yes." I just can't wrap my brain around the logic, or lack there of.

Again, this is coming from as stereotypical white girl as it gets, so I realize I am likely the least qualified person to speak about this. But it's still really interesting to me.

Also, I tend to think that the internet brings out the absolute worst in people. They think they can be anonymous so they do not inhibit their character one bit. Which, is really sad because it makes me wonder all these people who walk around day to day and seem normal, yet get off on calling black girls n***** or whatever else.... wow. But sadly you do "get used to it" to some degree it just starts to become background noise. I say that based on other terms I get like slut, whore, dumb bitch, whatever. Which I realize is probably not nearly as offensive as being called a n***** - I imagine that would be awfully hard to "get used to". :(

LaPetiteVierge
09-17-2014, 07:27 PM
Please post actual facts on here and not just your theories or assumptions. Then we can have an actual conversation, right now it's just your opinion.

I'm also not trying to be rude or fight with you. I just see a lot of talk without any actual proof.

I also saw you said people called you black this and that. They do that to everyone no matter the race. It's just a dumb asshole that has a sorry life that wants to harass someone for fun. Sadly it's a part of camming we all have to deal with, that's why I wish they would turn off free chat and only do group and private shows. Free chat is annoying.
I mentioned my experience to give background for why there's racial implications for devaluing oneself and why cammers of color might feel the need to show more for less to earn money, though they mostly do more harm than good. There was not much to that beyond giving background for a point. Like I said, I know insults happen, but I don't think a white woman will experience bashing with racial commentary being the main insult directed at them.

This is a conversation, man. There aren't that many statistical surveys done on porn beyond asking viewers what they like. There's no census for cam girl income with demographical data from what I know. I can't pull out a chart and a graph for you. Perspectives, opinions, and experience are all that can be provided. If that's not good enough for you, then a conversation really can't be discussed between you and I. I posted a video of a black woman who worked in porn for a number of years and was really successful who spoke briefly about racism in porn.
We're both just sharing opinions. If you've got something new to add, go for it. Otherwise, we can respectfully disagree with one another.

LaPetiteVierge
09-17-2014, 07:28 PM
If you are going to continue camming you will get used to "black pussy" "black ass" "black titties" etc etc Your color is the very first thing they see. Or another one 'ive never been with a black girl before' 'do you like white boys?' I get that one all day long. Even made a sign that said "Yes I love white men. Please stop asking." Had to take it down because the black customers thought I was disregarding them. It was just a joke. Race is a factor. Ive been told I charge too much because of my color and my size. My prices are middle of the road I think. But compared to my direct competition you would think I was a Bentley. In my mind I think I am. My confidence with a touch of arrogance gets me through. Race matters to the consumers and it shows with comments like "Damn you one of the finest black girls on here". I have to smile through that. Because it's not a compliment. Also other things that play a factor in my opinion is the way I speak. I've gotten request to sound more ethnic ie GHETTO "Hey you think you can talk like a hood bitch?" Yup I get that a lot. I'm an Afro Latina who speaks Spanish fluently. I have dark skin and curly hair. I wear wigs on cam because the natural do doesn't make me money. In the past I would never advertise myself as Latina because *shrugs* I dunno why. But now I am sure to mention it and have been added to Latina categories. Since letting it be known that I can speak Spanish suddenly my stock has gone up. Now Im exotic. Interesting. Sexy. Im still the same person as before but it's amazing with a bit of tweaking and marketing can do.
*prints this out and gets it tattooed on both my asscheeks*

SarahTime
09-17-2014, 07:28 PM
If you are going to continue camming you will get used to "black pussy" "black ass" "black titties" etc etc Your color is the very first thing they see. Or another one 'ive never been with a black girl before' 'do you like white boys?' I get that one all day long. Even made a sign that said "Yes I love white men. Please stop asking." Had to take it down because the black customers thought I was disregarding them. It was just a joke. Race is a factor. Ive been told I charge too much because of my color and my size. My prices are middle of the road I think. But compared to my direct competition you would think I was a Bentley. In my mind I think I am. My confidence with a touch of arrogance gets me through. Race matters to the consumers and it shows with comments like "Damn you one of the finest black girls on here". I have to smile through that. Because it's not a compliment. Also other things that play a factor in my opinion is the way I speak. I've gotten request to sound more ethnic ie GHETTO "Hey you think you can talk like a hood bitch?" Yup I get that a lot. I'm an Afro Latina who speaks Spanish fluently. I have dark skin and curly hair. I wear wigs on cam because the natural do doesn't make me money. In the past I would never advertise myself as Latina because *shrugs* I dunno why. But now I am sure to mention it and have been added to Latina categories. Since letting it be known that I can speak Spanish suddenly my stock has gone up. Now Im exotic. Interesting. Sexy. Im still the same person as before but it's amazing with a bit of tweaking and marketing can do.

Aren't stereotypes interesting? I have a big ass and I get asked constantly all night if I love black men. Somehow big ass has come to equal loving black men/black cock. It's just... funny. My answer is always "Yes, I love all men" which is never what they are looking for. They want to hear how my "white ass" loves "black cock". It's interesting the number of black men that I do shows with that want me to constantly talk about being white. I've always wondered why this is? I would say a large majority of my regulars are black men.

Fitandpretty
09-17-2014, 07:33 PM
Aren't stereotypes interesting? I have a big ass and I get asked constantly all night if I love black men. Somehow big ass has come to equal loving black men/black cock. It's just... funny. My answer is always "Yes, I love all men" which is never what they are looking for. They want to hear how my "white ass" loves "black cock". It's interesting the number of black men that I do shows with that want me to constantly talk about being white. I've always wondered why this is? I would say a large majority of my regulars are black men.
And it's totally reversed with us. Most of my guys are white lol

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-17-2014, 07:39 PM
Aren't stereotypes interesting? I have a big ass and I get asked constantly all night if I love black men. Somehow big ass has come to equal loving black men/black cock. It's just... funny. My answer is always "Yes, I love all men" which is never what they are looking for. They want to hear how my "white ass" loves "black cock". It's interesting the number of black men that I do shows with that want me to constantly talk about being white. I've always wondered why this is? I would say a large majority of my regulars are black men.

And my customer base is mostly white men who want to be dominated by a big black girl. Because those particular customers think black women are all aggressive and lack a softer bubbly side. Im a sweet heart that will cook and cuddle with you all night long. But for the money I can be "that bitch." It is funny, isn't? That is until the money dries up and then I have to change it up. Now Im a Spicy Latina who loves to please her Papi. It's so much that factors into it this discussion and I know it can be difficult to understand when it's not your reality. I know what's going on and I'm very careful not to let it define me. I make sure to take breaks and just be who I really am. A creative. A gamer. A dog lover. A big sister. A daughter A fucking human being.

JaneBurgess
09-17-2014, 08:14 PM
I get a bit touchy on this subject because I'm a light Cuban. I hear from assclowns online how I should be darker or how you can't be light and still be Hispanic. I guess I get annoyed when people post "white features" I feel like that's saying we aren't looking like we should. Everyone comes in different colors and sizes and we work with what we have.

I can't say what it's like to be another race in this industry and I can't say one race does better than the others. I think we all try to do our best and if customers don't appreciate that, they can move on. I don't take what they say personally because I think many are just assholes looking to bully someone. I have the typical Cuban attitude of like me or fuck off, I really don't care either way. Not sure if that's good or bad. :)



I mentioned my experience to give background for why there's racial implications for devaluing oneself and why cammers of color might feel the need to show more for less to earn money, though they mostly do more harm than good. There was not much to that beyond giving background for a point. Like I said, I know insults happen, but I don't think a white woman will experience bashing with racial commentary being the main insult directed at them.

This is a conversation, man. There aren't that many statistical surveys done on porn beyond asking viewers what they like. There's no census for cam girl income with demographical data from what I know. I can't pull out a chart and a graph for you. Perspectives, opinions, and experience are all that can be provided. If that's not good enough for you, then a conversation really can't be discussed between you and I. I posted a video of a black woman who worked in porn for a number of years and was really successful who spoke briefly about racism in porn.
We're both just sharing opinions. If you've got something new to add, go for it. Otherwise, we can respectfully disagree with one another.

TheBrownFox
09-17-2014, 08:37 PM
If you are going to continue camming you will get used to "black pussy" "black ass" "black titties" etc etc Your color is the very first thing they see. Or another one 'ive never been with a black girl before' 'do you like white boys?' I get that one all day long.
Yup, I used to get that all the time on MFC. Lol!

TheBrownFox
09-17-2014, 08:49 PM
No. I watch Fox and they have never used the term people of color. In fact they are much more polite and balanced then the other news stations. They just get shit for being a Republican news station.

I haven't heard anyone use the term colored ever and I know older folks use it because in the 50's and 60's that was a common term.
A few years ago this generous tipper on MFC said to me "I've never been with a colored girl before" (or maybe he said "colored gal"...omg...lmao). Either way, I wanted to lmfao when he posted that. I thought "Who the hell even says 'colored' anymore???" This was a White man in his 60s, so maybe he was just used to talking like that from remembering the old days. But it was just weird hearing the phrase 'colored gal' in the year 2000-something.

JaneBurgess
09-17-2014, 08:52 PM
I know, it's always people over 60 that use that term. I guess back in the day that was a normal word to use. Now when you it is it's just weird.



A few years ago this generous tipper on MFC said to me "I've never been with a colored girl before" (or maybe he said "colored gal"...omg...lmao). Either way, I wanted to lmfao when he posted that. I thought "Who the hell even says 'colored' anymore???" This was a White man in his 60s, so maybe he was just used to talking like that from remembering the old days. But it was just weird hearing the phrase 'colored gal' in the year 2000-something.

LaylaLovely
09-17-2014, 09:13 PM
I get a bit touchy on this subject because I'm a light Cuban. I hear from assclowns online how I should be darker or how you can't be light and still be Hispanic. I guess I get annoyed when people post "white features" I feel like that's saying we aren't looking like we should. Everyone comes in different colors and sizes and we work with what we have.

I can't say what it's like to be another race in this industry and I can't say one race does better than the others. I think we all try to do our best and if customers don't appreciate that, they can move on. I don't take what they say personally because I think many are just assholes looking to bully someone. I have the typical Cuban attitude of like me or fuck off, I really don't care either way. Not sure if that's good or bad. :)


I didn't mean to offend when I used "white like features" we all have our own experience , and that is just what I have encountered growing up.I do understand having to be a certain way based upon your ethnicity, being Latina I am expected to sound and be like a Latina.. Like speaking Spanish, I personally was an orphan and was mainly around Caucasian people growing up so I lost my native language Spanish also I am very hmm "white washed" I guess ppl would say and I have gotten a lot of backlash because of it , like why am I in Latina category if I don't speak Spanish ... And of coarse the racial pvts requests with men wanting me to use racial slurs etc.. Etc.. I always say no it's not allowed as it could be considered hate/racists speech.its sad ppl have to think this way but they do

LaylaLovely
09-17-2014, 09:18 PM
Here's a perspective from an adult entertainer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVxE_5cerrI

I'll edit this post and add more as I come across it.


She couldn't have said it better, this is statistically looking at numbers in the sex industry....maybe not exactly in camming because we set our own numbers ;)

AvaLove
09-17-2014, 09:18 PM
I am black cam girl, there is nothing racially ambiguous about my looks. I have a caramel complex with a wide nose, ( kind of like Nicki Minaj but my tip is way more round) and my weave is wavy. I weigh 135 lbs and I am 5'8 with no boobs or butt :( My cam girl persona is the girl-next-door. with a goofy personality. For me, my laziness is what stands in the way of me making money not my race. Do I feel that my race may play a factor in some men not wanting to take me private, yes but I cannot dwell about that. In the adult industry outside of camming I do feel out of place. Today I applied for waitress/bartender position at popular black club, I am pretty sure I did not get the job since I am soft spoken so they assume I am not assertive and white clubs have a black girl quota plus I would have to tone up since I have no curves. Luckily cam sites do not denied women as long you are 18 or older, you are hired

I hate getting those race play request along with those age/incest roleplay requests. I am do not understand how can I pretend to be your daughter and I black and you are not -_-. I swear some of these guy's iq falls 50% The good news is that my new apartment has an upload speed of 7 Mbps ***happy clap*** Now I will have to come up with a new excuse not to cam :P

JaneBurgess
09-17-2014, 09:34 PM
It's society to be honest. They have a look they think we should all have and if we don't, there must be something wrong with us. That pisses me off people would think you are "white washed" it's disgusting. You would be amazed at how many Hispanics don't speak a word of Spanish, it's pretty common if you are born in the US. I get the racial slur requests all the time and it's always the N word and talking about BBC. I won't do racial slurs because those fools are already ignorant. Being Hispanic doesn't mean we are gangbangers and drinking forties. I get asked a lot if I drink Corona. WTF? The stereotypes for all the races are really dumb.

I read an interview with Haley Berry and she said people called her an Oreo growing up, same with Shemar Moore. I think they are two of the sexiest people in the world. You really can't win no matter the race you are, some asshole is always going to have problems with you. Those people live a very sad life and I feel sorry for them.



I didn't mean to offend when I used "white like features" we all have our own experience , and that is just what I have encountered growing up.I do understand having to be a certain way based upon your ethnicity, being Latina I am expected to sound and be like a Latina.. Like speaking Spanish, I personally was an orphan and was mainly around Caucasian people growing up so I lost my native language Spanish also I am very hmm "white washed" I guess ppl would say and I have gotten a lot of backlash because of it , like why am I in Latina category if I don't speak Spanish ... And of coarse the racial pvts requests with men wanting me to use racial slurs etc.. Etc.. I always say no it's not allowed as it could be considered hate/racists speech.its sad ppl have to think this way but they do

Blovely
09-18-2014, 12:56 AM
There are a few threads on this. But anyways this is not just a porn, adult industry, sex worker issue thing this is an issue with pretty much everything. America and pretty much the whole world is setup to view black women as less desired and others as more desirable. I'm not even going to get into why I think things are setup like that.

When I first started watching models I didn't think there were successful black models because I never really saw them in the top rows or on the first few pages. But over the years I saw more and more pop up (mostly on SM though). This forum has also allowed me to read success stories from black models.

I do believe that the less "ethnic" you look the more valued you are.....you can see this in movies, music, etc but I believe its like that because of the way society and beauty standards are setup. Although the less "ethnic" you look may rank you higher I don't think one should feel or believe that just because they have darker skin, kinkier hair that they'll rank low or won't make any money. I am not a top earner by any means but from what I've read on this forum I make the same as alot of camgirls who are "higher valued" as you put it. I am dark skin. I have a small waist and stomach but I got ass and hips. I no longer wear hairstyles that alot of black women in general wear (straight, wavy hair, loose curls). I rarely wear wigs/weave anymore but when I do I'll wear a wig or ponytail that looks afro textured, for the longest time I wore yarn braids which look like locs, and sometimes I even wear my natural hair(4c texture). I'm not going to lie though when I first started wearing my natural hair on cam I thought that I wasn't going to make money or that I was going to get ignorant comments. But everytime I wore my natural hair I made my goal and got compliments. This is to say that just because one doesn't fit the image or features of white, asian, latina, or light skin black women doesn't mean you can't make similar to those who do fit that standard.

So yes I think race/colorism is a factor. I honestly think that alot of non-black women have it easier because again of how society and beauty standards are set up. But in the same breath I don't think race/colorism is always a factor because I've seen quiet a few (mainly on SM) black models...light, medium, dark skin make more and or have higher placement than non-black models. I think black models regardless of skin tone or hair texture can make just as much as other races I just think they/we have to work a little harder.

P.S. I hope I made sense I suck as verbalizing my thoughts.

justanothercamgirl
09-18-2014, 01:15 AM
You don't get anywhere in this world without hard work. You can't say they are on top because they are white or they have brown hair. That's an insult to anyone that works their ass off. Basing it on race alone is just wrong.

I have no doubt that the top girls do work their ass off......but I do have to say that I agree that race may also be a factor. Look at the American/Canadian girls on Adultwork that complain that they have a harder time since the majority of men on Adultwork are from the UK and they for the most part want UK women. So if men's sexual preference is influenced by country on Adultwork then it really isn't to far of a stretch to imagine it can also be influenced by race.

Edited to add: I skimmed the thread backwards and saw that you said that you would also like facts as well as opinions, which I completely understand.

In her book “Unequal Desires,” Siobhan Brooks* points to the drastically lower wages black strippers make in comparison to their white counterparts. She discusses at length the lower erotic capital of black women in the sex economy as being reflective of their lower value in the entire labor economy. This low value is even more apparent in the production of the types of porn films in which black women appear: The plot of black female porn is almost always centered around subjugation.

*Siobhan Brooks is an African-American lesbian feminist sociologist known for her work with African-American women in the sex worker industry and the feminist issues affecting them.

Melonie
09-18-2014, 02:44 AM
I also see a lot of the "third world cammers" (as others have called it, not saying I agree with the term) showing and doing everything in free chat in hopes of getting a show at a very low rate.

To provide some perspective, I have been a 'third world cammer' for the past 5 years or so ... and don't do ANYTHING unless I'm getting paid ( including firing up my cam by appointment only ) !!!

However, I do have to concede that many 'third world cammers' do offer a lot of 'free' content ... and that many 'third world cammers' are also content to charge comparatively low rates. I would speculate that part of the reason for the 'free' content is cultural. However, it's also likely that when a girl lives in an economy where US$100 is a LOT of money, and where local unskilled jobs pay < US$5 per hour in exchange for HARD work, camming for US$1.99 per min thus earning a ( tax free ) US$5 per hour on the average can be viewed as both 'easy work' as well as 'good money' in comparison.

However, going back to the 'marginal' camgirl explanation, such US$1.99 per minute 'third world cammers', as well as US$1.99 per min 'first world cammers' for that matter, aren't necessarily a good thing for webcam hosts ... since the costs incurred by the webcam host to provide their video stream, web server capacity etc. is probably almost equal to the amount of webcam host 'revenues' actually being received as a percentage of their paid sales. For better or worse, the costs incurred by a webcam host to provide a video stream, web server capacity, etc. to a camgirl is pretty much a constant, regardless of whether that camgirl appears on page 2 or page 22, and regardless of whether that camgirl generates $5 per hour or $50 per hour in average webcam host 'revenues'.



Look at the American/Canadian girls on Adultwork that complain that they have a harder time since the majority of men on Adultwork are from the UK and they for the most part want UK women.

This is a good opportunity to reiterate my earlier point ... that a camgirl's earnings are directly proportional to the amount of money that paying webcam customers are willing to spend on that particular camgirl. Thus any serious analysis should actually be looking at webcam customer preferences and webcam customer 'discretionary spending' budgets.

Issabelle
09-18-2014, 03:58 AM
Let me first say that I was hesitant to post in this thread because, um, Sarah put it well:


I will be the first to admit that my entire perception comes from 100% white girl here. lol :) I think that because myself, I could absolutely care less about the color of a persons skin or where they are from, I really feel like I don't even "see" color when I interact with people and I try very hard to teach my kids the same. So I think that because it is a non-issue to me, I tend to hear about issues that non white/non American people face and think that there has to be something else, be it personal choices or culture that perpetuates these cycles. I guess it must just be how I was raised, in very liberal WA state, so yah... I just always wonder how much of this is self perpetuating. I don't know if that sounds bad, I don't mean it bad, I just don't know how to exactly word what I'm thinking.

THIS and everything else Sarah said, but this especially. I was also raised in the pacific northwest (PNW) area and we're pretty...color blind? I don't know how to explain it, but the PNW is somehow simultaneously a very diverse and very uniform area. I grew up in an area that was nearly split in half for white versus hispanic/latino, then moved to an area with (again) a nearly even population of black, asian, and white people. The same is true of the area I currently live in and the additional fact that this area is heavily imbued with native american culture because of it's heritage. As a historian (I have a degree and everything) with a focus in early American and European history, I have to wonder if some part of it isn't--as Sarah said--a self-perpetuated cycle. The PNW was settled after the Civil War took place and really never had a chance to get that entrenched sort of racism that still seems to be prevalent in the southern part of the United States (as least, compared to the PNW). My point is that, for me at least, this concept that race is somehow an issue still is, frankly, totally baffling. I've never seen race as an issue in any way. Like, what, that's a thing?! I don't mean to say it in an ignorant or rude or even naive way, but the fact is (as I see it) there are a lot of people in the world today who just don't see race anymore. Not all, like it should be, but there are a lot of us.

I also follow her thoughts in immediately thinking 'this has to be something else besides race,' because, again, I just don't get the concept of people being biased on racial grounds. I meet people who are different from me and automatically have this 'ohmigod, you look so different and so pretty and I just wanna stare at you and please don't think I'm rude' and it's almost childish delight. It's hard for me to explain. The first time I saw a black woman with corn rows down her back, I just about died in my desire to coo over how gorgeous I thought they were. I was 20. It was pathetic, but it wasn't meant rudely. I think my point in all this is that you should all just move to the PNW because we have clearly got some weird, twilight zone thing going on up here and it's awesome.

As for camming, my point is more that while I'm not going to dismiss the concept or racial inequality in camming, I just don't get it. I can't helpfully contribute to this discussion because...uh, nope, not comprehending here. For me, the only factors are time and good ol' elbow grease. The idea that my green eyed, brown haired, french girl self is somehow the reason I make more money then other people is just unfathomable to me.

SimoneGray
09-18-2014, 04:52 AM
Here's my two cents on this issue as it is honestly not something I ever thought of before, but hey.

I'm from South Africa originally. Its basically race capital. Sure, Apartheid happened over 20 years ago, but the society is still feeling the effects. People don't get openly persecuted and there are penalties for being openly racist, but race is something that you come up against all the time. I myself and mixed race, half German, half South African. Some say I look latina, but others say they can clearly see I'm mixed race.

I work on SM, AW and a few other sites where I am on from time to time. I kill on AW, but this is because I am a South African girl and therefore have the accent that a lot of UK dudes find very sexy. On SM however, I pretend to be American and rock the accent to boot, because I have a damn good ear for accents, and I do live in the US for at least 6 month of every year. I get customers on SM based on what I pretend to be, and on AW based on who I really am. My skin colour has never factored into any cam session I have ever had. I do get people asking if I am latina, and when I explain to them why I'm not, they get really interested in me because I seem exotic. I use this to make bank. I don't care if they are fetishising me, as long as they pay, I'm good. I have studied race and gender politics so I am aware of the nuances of this situation etc, but as long as they do not openly mention how they feel about me racially, we are good to go.

When I cam, I never think about my race ever, and that's mostly because I don't think about it in life either. Growing up in SA, I was taught not to see that stuff. I think that not thinking about it has made me a better cammer, because all I do is a think about how to improve my show content, my hustle and my personality. The thoughts you carry with you totally affect your ability to cam. Looking at myself racially is not something I am that capable of doing, knowing how I grew up etc. I am currently back in SA and all that is getting punted is equal opportunity for all etc in the corporate workplace, so will I think about not being equal in my own workplace? No.

On the subject of "third world cammers", I would probably be considered one of those given that SA is still a developing country, but I don't do anything for free. Even though the exchange rate is 10-1 in my favor, I refuse to charge $1.99 a minute because when I am in the US, I need to live like everyone else. I also have enough respect for the camming industry to not be one of those girls who sells herself short for a buck. I think the girls who do this are still under the impression that if they charge less they will make more. There needs to be an education of sorts for cammers I feel, so that they can stop doing this, regardless of where they come from.

I think however that race will always factor in to whatever you do, but for your own sanity, don't think about it. Ban the dudes who get ugly because that's what they deserve and the right ones will come along. It saddens me that they still treat black women with the amount of contempt that they do though, that is for sure.

euaici
09-18-2014, 07:18 AM
I had the opportunity of working, at vanilla jobs, with people from different cultures, and there is a thing I learned, taht should be taken very clearly into account, about this subject:

- people get educated in a certain system, and some systems are very good at setting immovable beliefs. They have like a barrier inside that makes them completely unable to see things which are against that set of beliefs, even if you can offer them clear, logical arguments, even if they would profit largely (and not only money-wise) from shedding those limiting beliefs, even, sometimes, they have aggressive/destructive reactions to calm, clear and logical arguments.

- Sometimes this happens because of traumas/very bad repetitive things they lived through.

- in certain places, the access to information is very, very, very restricted, and those people actually have no idea about things a Westerner would take for granted. Example: a college-educated person in one of this places didn't know what opera music was. I don't say they didn't appreciate the style, or they choose a composer over the other, they had no idea what it was.

- as Issabelle said, some cultures value diversity, and people from those cultures will do that on cam too; some cultures are conformist, so diversity is anathema.

- Such persons cannot understand, at all, things that for the average Westerner would be day-to-day things.

Does this cultural inability make them inferior? Logically, no, because you cannot know something you were never taught/were forbidden to know. Would you punish your child for not speaking fluent Ancient Greek at 6 years old, when you never taught him that? No. But Ancient Greek is a very exotic thing, so everybody rationalizes that you can't speak it without studying it extensively. Cultural things are very ingrained in our personality, so much so that most people don't stop to think that they were learned at a certain point, they become as normal as walking or eating with a fork, a thing you never think about learning. So you assume that everybody should know it, and look down to those who don't.

Is it stupid? Yes.
Does it factor into account things like: that girl from Asia or Africa is working already for more than 14 hours, and will get a pittance for all that work, so this is why she looks uninterested? NO.
Does it take into account the way her illiterate/extremely poor family lives, in terms of cleanliness/living space arrangement she learned? No.

Prejudice exists and there are only two ways to deal with it: start a crusade and change the world or see what can we use for our benefit, just getting mad at people does not help.

Angeliqua
09-18-2014, 07:35 AM
It was used during slavery and segregation in the US at a time when black people were believed to be partial humans and treated like animals.

I think it depends on where you are from in the United States, many older people refer to me as being "of color" and I take no offense to this at all. It really depends on the context it is being used in, region, etc. I do not like to be referred to as African American because well, I am American period. I do not like to be called "mixed" because that is how ppl refer to dogs. I hate when ppl try to guess "what I am" it is more degrading than being referred to as being of color IMO. I had some DA that kept repeatedly asking me if I was Mexican, then Indian and then the list went on and on before he finally said what are you. I hate being labeled...but I get what you are saying too.

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 08:34 AM
I think it depends on where you are from in the United States, many older people refer to me as being "of color" and I take no offense to this at all. It really depends on the context it is being used in, region, etc. I do not like to be referred to as African American because well, I am American period. I do not like to be called "mixed" because that is how ppl refer to dogs. I hate when ppl try to guess "what I am" it is more degrading than being referred to as being of color IMO. I had some DA that kept repeatedly asking me if I was Mexican, then Indian and then the list went on and on before he finally said what are you. I hate being labeled...but I get what you are saying too.
We were talking about the word "colored" than "of color" in what I was saying there. People took issue with "of color" because they for some reason thought it insinuated that white people have no color.

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 08:35 AM
I created a survey everyone. Let's get the numbers on this and see if there's a trend!
http://lapetitevierge.tumblr.com/survey

AliceFun
09-18-2014, 08:43 AM
Regarding models on sites that look uninterested, unkept & not that 'clean', let me tell u a story, my story: back in year 2000 i started to work at a studio as a cam model, i am in EE, for us here the thing was totally new, the cam modelling, nobody knew how to do it, nobody had any info, studio bosses did not wanted models to understand things, u know how we operated the site?

In order to open the session i had to double click an icon on desktop where my username & password were saved (password not visible of course), then i went into a full screen window where i was already streaming. That window had no buttons, menu, nothing but the chat window. The tech guys programmed the browser to just hide everything 'we did not need to see or use', as a model u were put in front of the pc and told to entertain members in video, u were told a few basic things of how to operate the pc & chat window & nothing else, if u knew english then u were lucky, if not the only things u could do was learn or work blindly.

In school i studied 2 different languages other than english so i started from zero, bought myself a dictionary and tried to understand what members were telling me and build phrases. That was haaaard work believe me. We had 12 hrs shifts, 5 days a week, got a fix salary (above average to keep us working but not that much to make us live in luxury), we had no idea how others were working, what prices they had, we had no possibility to open a browser & surf the internet, very few people had pc's at home or even internet, we were totally in dark regarding everything, the bosses in studio were foreigners & i can tell now they exploited us cause nobody knew how much money we were actually making for them.

I can only assume now this is happening with the girls u ladies see on sites that look uninterested, tired, not talking, etc etc. I feel very lucky to be able to work on my own, from my own home & able to open a browser & post in this forum, also read ur posts & get informed, i admit also is pretty painful to read certain things or deal with certain situations on cam just because i am not born or living in the right place, have the right accent or look the right way.

And NO, is not self-limiting urself, like it was said above, repetitive traumas, abuse, name calling, negative experiences have an impact on ur character & performance on cam, if a child is always told "u are stupid, u not worth, etc" by the parents & teachers & other kids around him then he will start to believe he is not worth, no matter how hard he wants to believe he's valuable, society makes him feel otherwise & after a while his attitude changes, his behavior adapt to what he is told he's worth.

Issues are real, people get insulted or mistreated for various reasons, if it's skin color, nationality, size, whatever. Yes, it might happen that ur eye color is making u money, or ur boobs or ur hair, dont know, just look at the tags or comments u get & u will find out what people find hot about you or look at the negative comments/tags to see what people hate about u or why they pick on you. By the way, take into consideration the tags might come also from other cam models as well, the haters/ trolls. U dont have negative comments/ tags, people dont pick on u normally? Then consider urself lucky, means you appeal to masses, to the spenders on that specific site.

Have peace!

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 09:13 AM
Regarding models on sites that look uninterested, unkept & not that 'clean', let me tell u a story, my story: back in year 2000 i started to work at a studio as a cam model, i am in EE, for us here the thing was totally new, the cam modelling, nobody knew how to do it, nobody had any info, studio bosses did not wanted models to understand things, u know how we operated the site?

In order to open the session i had to double click an icon on desktop where my username & password were saved (password not visible of course), then i went into a full screen window where i was already streaming. That window had no buttons, menu, nothing but the chat window. The tech guys programmed the browser to just hide everything 'we did not need to see or use', as a model u were put in front of the pc and told to entertain members in video, u were told a few basic things of how to operate the pc & chat window & nothing else, if u knew english then u were lucky, if not the only things u could do was learn or work blindly.

In school i studied 2 different languages other than english so i started from zero, bought myself a dictionary and tried to understand what members were telling me and build phrases. That was haaaard work believe me. We had 12 hrs shifts, 5 days a week, got a fix salary (above average to keep us working but not that much to make us live in luxury), we had no idea how others were working, what prices they had, we had no possibility to open a browser & surf the internet, very few people had pc's at home or even internet, we were totally in dark regarding everything, the bosses in studio were foreigners & i can tell now they exploited us cause nobody knew how much money we were actually making for them.

I can only assume now this is happening with the girls u ladies see on sites that look uninterested, tired, not talking, etc etc. I feel very lucky to be able to work on my own, from my own home & able to open a browser & post in this forum, also read ur posts & get informed, i admit also is pretty painful to read certain things or deal with certain situations on cam just because i am not born or living in the right place, have the right accent or look the right way.

And NO, is not self-limiting urself, like it was said above, repetitive traumas, abuse, name calling, negative experiences have an impact on ur character & performance on cam, if a child is always told "u are stupid, u not worth, etc" by the parents & teachers & other kids around him then he will start to believe he is not worth, no matter how hard he wants to believe he's valuable, society makes him feel otherwise & after a while his attitude changes, his behavior adapt to what he is told he's worth.

Issues are real, people get insulted or mistreated for various reasons, if it's skin color, nationality, size, whatever. Yes, it might happen that ur eye color is making u money, or ur boobs or ur hair, dont know, just look at the tags or comments u get & u will find out what people find hot about you or look at the negative comments/tags to see what people hate about u or why they pick on you. By the way, take into consideration the tags might come also from other cam models as well, the haters/ trolls. U dont have negative comments/ tags, people dont pick on u normally? Then consider urself lucky, means you appeal to masses, to the spenders on that specific site.

Have peace!
Thank you so much for adding your personal input on this and especially for saying the bold!

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-18-2014, 09:17 AM
I created a survey everyone. Let's get the numbers on this and see if there's a trend!
http://lapetitevierge.tumblr.com/survey

I did your survey. But I would suggest opening it up a bit. I know your control group is mainly from SW but there are cammers here who are regions not mentioned. Other could be any country in South America, Africa,Asia Eastern Europe. I know you may not be able to list them all but maybe add a few more?

AliceFun
09-18-2014, 09:24 AM
Thank you so much for adding your personal input on this and especially for saying the bold!

You welcome, i am glad to contribute :)
When i post i always post about my personal experiences cause, what best example u can have than ur own experience? I dont talk from the books but from real life & if i have the chance to post and bring a different perspective i'll always do it. Maybe there are many girls who would want to post but they for whatever reason dont or they cant, i can & i do it, always here to help & i really hope my voice matters even i am in minority.

TheBrownFox
09-18-2014, 09:41 AM
YEP. This really is the key here.

It seems to me that a lot of "non white" cammers are more likely to devalue themselves, all on their own. It appears as though they believe they must start with lower rates than white women, for whatever reason. I also see a lot of the "third world cammers" (as others have called it, not saying I agree with the term) showing and doing everything in free chat in hopes of getting a show at a very low rate. This could be for a number of reasons... they could be there by choice or by force or desperation in places where living conditions are not favorable. Either way, I think that members tend to view "non white" cammers as less valuable or less desirable because the cammers themselves are reinforcing that idea all on their own.

Have a look through the "ebony" section of Streamate. What do you see? Well past the first row of cams, I see cammers who have LOTS of stuff hanging out in free... tits... pussy... ass... everything. I see performers who look bored and uninterested. I see performers sleeping. I see performers in rooms that look messy. I see performers who look un-kept.

Have a look at the "latina" section. Same thing as ebony, although not as much unfavorable things going on.

Have a look at the "asian" section. Yep, same things.

So, do you see my point? If I click on "white girls" I don't see the same thing to the same severity until I get a couple pages deeper.
Yup, I've mentioned that here on the forum once (how when peeking at the Ebony section of SM, I'd see several thumbnail pics/room preview shots of Ebony models showing it all in free chat, looking extremely bored). In fact, even the former SW member MalayaTaylor and/or TouringGirlfriend (who I thought was the same person, but IDK) posted her own observation about the Ebony section of Streamate, and a few ladies on here got a little upset and thought she was singling out Black women. I knew exactly what she was referring to though.

I also get annoyed when people play the race card when it isn't necessary to do so, and when it doesn't apply in a particular situation. Lately, the topic of racism has been on my mind though, but not because of anything camming-related. It's just due to the fact that someone in this area has been screaming the word "NIGGER!!!!!" at me lately at the top of his lungs when passing by me on his bike (it's a group of guys on bike, but one person is actually saying it). Okay, I'm done threadjacking.

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 09:52 AM
I did your survey. But I would suggest opening it up a bit. I know your control group is mainly from SW but there are cammers here who are regions not mentioned. Other could be any country in South America, Africa,Asia Eastern Europe. I know you may not be able to list them all but maybe add a few more?
I added about 14 more countries. Thanks for the suggestion!

scarletl
09-18-2014, 10:17 AM
I am a white woman and I'm from the UK. And I do believe race does come into play but I also believe many factors come into play when it comes to this industry.
I remember when I used to cam on MFC and we're all aware of the fact that MFC is dominated by girls from the USA and the customers too. And for a long time I really felt like I wouldn't make any success on MFC because of this, I felt like American guys wanted to stick to American girls, because all I ever had was mainly UK guys in my room. But now I look back that was utter crap and the ONLY thing that was holding me back from success on MFC was me, not where I come from or what accent I have. (I even went to the extent of changing my profile to USA)

After a few months I got over that and then I started to watch the UK cam girls and figured that blondes make more money, blondes had more guys in their room and they we're getting 10x more tips than I was (brunette) and any other brunette was. I felt like my hair colour was holding me back from being successful and earning the money I wanted to earn.

The problem was not my hair colour or accent. I was my own problem, because I kept telling myself that my own features or what I look or sounded like was not earning me as much money as I felt I should be earning.

There will ALWAYS be a different type of girl out there whether she has a different figure to you, skin colour, skin tone, eye colour, accent and everything else in between... who is making more money than you.

I'm not being funny but check out the BBW rocking their curves on cam, they must look at top row girls like you and think "Shit, all these girls are skinny and making bank, I don't and won't ever make as much as them because you have to look this way to be top row"
It's just not the case at all, because gurl they are making bank.

LaylaLovely
09-18-2014, 10:26 AM
I am a white woman and I'm from the UK. And I do believe race does come into play but I also believe many factors come into play when it comes to this industry.
I remember when I used to cam on MFC and we're all aware of the fact that MFC is dominated by girls from the USA and the customers too. And for a long time I really felt like I wouldn't make any success on MFC because of this, I felt like American guys wanted to stick to American girls, because all I ever had was mainly UK guys in my room. But now I look back that was utter crap and the ONLY thing that was holding me back from success on MFC was me, not where I come from or what accent I have. (I even went to the extent of changing my profile to USA)

After a few months I got over that and then I started to watch the UK cam girls and figured that blondes make more money, blondes had more guys in their room and they we're getting 10x more tips than I was (brunette) and any other brunette was. I felt like my hair colour was holding me back from being successful and earning the money I wanted to earn.

The problem was not my hair colour or accent. I was my own problem, because I kept telling myself that my own features or what I look or sounded like was not earning me as much money as I felt I should be earning.

There will ALWAYS be a different type of girl out there whether she has a different figure to you, skin colour, skin tone, eye colour, accent and everything else in between... who is making more money than you.

I'm not being funny but check out the BBW rocking their curves on cam, they must look at top row girls like you and think "Shit, all these girls are skinny and making bank, I don't and won't ever make as much as them because you have to look this way to be top row"
It's just not the case at all, because gurl they are making bank.


We'll said I personally like bigger woman I envy them and there curves I actually get bored and not interested by skinny woman, everybody has there own type and it's all not skinny and blonde.. In society that's what they push a certain image.. But it's not reality many men love other kinds of woman

Melonie
09-18-2014, 11:03 AM
I actually get bored and not interested by skinny woman, everybody has there own type and it's all not skinny and blonde.. In society that's what they push a certain image.. But it's not reality many men love other kinds of woman

While this may very well be true in terms of society in general, what's relevant in terms of this thread is whether or not webcam customer preferences, thus webcam customer spending levels, are equally 'diverse'. And outside of 'classified' webcam host internal data regarding camgirl conversion rates / average hourly earnings by camgirl 'category', there's no factual data to go on. While collecting survey data from SW readers may be helpful, it certainly won't be conclusive ... if for no other reason than the fact that SW readers don't represent an accurate cross-section of worldwide camgirls.

GlamourRouge
09-18-2014, 12:14 PM
We'll said I personally like bigger woman I envy them and there curves I actually get bored and not interested by skinny woman, everybody has there own type and it's all not skinny and blonde.. In society that's what they push a certain image.. But it's not reality many men love other kinds of woman

I think that is very true, about body size/shape. The media tells people everyone wants an underweight blonde woman, but in reality, its just not true. Men love a variety and really don't mind curves. Luckily Kim Kardashian's hustler mom pushed & pushed so now the Kim Kardashian look (dark hair, tan, curvy) is also recognized as being what some men also want now.

But the reality is that men are attracted to all sorts of body shapes and hair colors, and I think there are more men attracted to curvy women than thin women because of the "curves = carrying babies" psychological factor. Not that it matters, but I'm trying to prove the point that what the media says people like and what people actually like are very different. I know this is true because I've always been curvy like in the Kat Dennings or Kim Kardashian way, and I've never been short of males that fancy my shape. I've never had an overwhelming desire to lose a bunch of weight either, and refuse to fall into the media-consumerism trap.

Some men prefer curvy, some prefer runway model, some prefer spinner, and some prefer BBW. When you get caught up in what the media tells you (after all, the media is trying to sell unrealistic unattainable ideals in order to sell products through consumerism), well its just not reality.

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 01:09 PM
When this survey reaches 25 responses, I'll post its findings. We're roughly half way there.

anoncamgirl
09-18-2014, 01:16 PM
I think that is very true, about body size/shape. The media tells people everyone wants an underweight blonde woman, but in reality, its just not true. Men love a variety and really don't mind curves. Luckily Kim Kardashian's hustler mom pushed & pushed so now the Kim Kardashian look (dark hair, tan, curvy) is also recognized as being what some men also want now.

But the reality is that men are attracted to all sorts of body shapes and hair colors, and I think there are more men attracted to curvy women than thin women because of the "curves = carrying babies" psychological factor. Not that it matters, but I'm trying to prove the point that what the media says people like and what people actually like are very different. I know this is true because I've always been curvy like in the Kat Dennings or Kim Kardashian way, and I've never been short of males that fancy my shape. I've never had an overwhelming desire to lose a bunch of weight either, and refuse to fall into the media-consumerism trap.

Some men prefer curvy, some prefer runway model, some prefer spinner, and some prefer BBW. When you get caught up in what the media tells you (after all, the media is trying to sell unrealistic unattainable ideals in order to sell products through consumerism), well its just not reality.

Yeah, this is really true. I'm not a cut out blonde white girl. Even though I am white, guys seem to have a hard time picking that up because I don't have blue eyes, blonde hair, and I'm not as skinny as some other models are. I've gotten guys guess that I'm part hispanic, mexican, japenese, and 'european' (???). Overall I guess I would relate to the Kim Kardashian look. I definitely pack some hips and ass on my body. I'm not the skinniest girl out there, I have a small waist in proportion with the rest of my body but damn. Guys love it. When I first started I thought that I wasn't pretty enough. I knew I had a nice face, but I was really unsure about my body and I thought the only thing bringing me money was my attractive face. There's a lot of guys out there who love hips and ass!

I think the way you look can impact your camming, but you just have to work with what you've got. You won't make as much if you don't think you have something everyone will love. Make it work for you! I prefer girls extremely skinny girls with dark hair, light skin, and blue or green eyes. That's not the only type out there! Just because you like something doesn't mean there's thousands of guys who would prefer something else. Keep your mind open and the money will come. :D

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-18-2014, 01:53 PM
While this may very well be true in terms of society in general, what's relevant in terms of this thread is whether or not webcam customer preferences, thus webcam customer spending levels, are equally 'diverse'. And outside of 'classified' webcam host internal data regarding camgirl conversion rates / average hourly earnings by camgirl 'category', there's no factual data to go on. While collecting survey data from SW readers may be helpful, it certainly won't be conclusive ... if for no other reason than the fact that SW readers don't represent an accurate cross-section of worldwide camgirls.

Melonie I appreciate you keeping the thread on point. I meant to respond earlier but I was busy. Many of us have giving testimonials but really it's about customer spending. I have affiliate sites and I have numbers for pre-recorded content and phone sex sites. But for camming I can only go on what people say versus the numbers. I try to ask marketing questions when camming without losing the sexy but this is difficult to discuss when so many variables are left out. If we combine the for-mentioned with the adverse reactions of those who aren't in the minority things get messy and misconstrued. For the skeptics your point of view is valid more than you know, but it's not all about the secret and a persons attitude. It's waaay more than that. This is interesting to me because I know what I know and go through this on a day to day basis. When I decide to launch a new site I have to take into account if that content I want to market is marketable. I may personally think she is hot but will the consumer feel the same? And if they have discretionary income who are they gonna spend it on ultimately and why?

GlamourRouge
09-18-2014, 01:59 PM
When this survey reaches 25 responses, I'll post its findings. We're roughly half way there.

It has had 49 responses. You can see them after you vote.

And this is not even an accurate poll because this is not an accurate sample of SW. Only the people who care about race in the first place (or people that feel that their race has affected them) are going to view this thread... thus leaving out a large group of people that would have vote "no" or "it depends" but never clicked the thread because they don't care.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-18-2014, 02:04 PM
She posted another link to a tumblr page with a different survey. And you are right it does have holes. But if those people aren't willing to participate then why not move along?

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 02:31 PM
It has had 49 responses. You can see them after you vote.

And this is not even an accurate poll because this is not an accurate sample of SW. Only the people who care about race in the first place (or people that feel that their race has affected them) are going to view this thread... thus leaving out a large group of people that would have vote "no" or "it depends" but never clicked the thread because they don't care.

Uh.. Well, I posted a survey. It's in the original post at the bottom. So ...

scarletl
09-18-2014, 03:10 PM
Does this really matter?


Or is it creating a problem that doesn't need to be created?

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 03:22 PM
Does this really matter?


Or is it creating a problem that doesn't need to be created?
I think it's really odd and fucked up how we can't have a conversation about something serious that affects people in negative ways without people being hostile or dismissive about it.
Yes it matters. It might not matter to you nor have an affect on you, but it's an actual issue in the lives of some people and NOT because they give away freebies, don't work hard, and want to blame race for things.
This conversation isn't creating a problem. The only problem is people who want it to be a hushed topic and completely ignore the existence of the possibility and probability of it while recommending we virtually shut up and get over it. Those who have agreed, disagreed, and remained neutral about this have said their points and their opinions without (for the most part) being disrespectful and without creating an environment that harbors negativity and a carried tone throughout the thread. Like loveshooks said, it's real unfortunate that we can't just talk about it without it being such a big deal for people. Especially such a big deal for those who aren't at all affected by it and can't see past their opinions of something to just simply discuss things.

If you don't like people talking about feeling like there's prejudices within this industry, then don't read this thread or respond to it. Responding with negativity is what creates the negativity, not having the conversation in the first place.

This matters to somebody. Might not matter to you, but it matters to others.

scarletl
09-18-2014, 03:34 PM
I think it's really odd and fucked up how we can't have a conversation about something serious that affects people in negative ways without people being hostile or dismissive about it.
Yes it matters. It might not matter to you nor have an affect on you, but it's an actual issue in the lives of some people and NOT because they give away freebies, don't work hard, and want to blame race for things.
This conversation isn't creating a problem. The only problem is people who want it to be a hushed topic and completely ignore the existence of the possibility and probability of it while recommending we virtually shut up and get over it. Those who have agreed, disagreed, and remained neutral about this have said their points and their opinions without (for the most part) being disrespectful and without creating an environment that harbors negativity and a carried tone throughout the thread. Like loveshooks said, it's real unfortunate that we can't just talk about it without it being such a big deal for people. Especially such a big deal for those who aren't at all affected by it and can't see past their opinions of something to just simply discuss things.

If you don't like people talking about feeling like there's prejudices within this industry, then don't read this thread or respond to it. Responding with negativity is what creates the negativity, not having the conversation in the first place.

This matters to somebody. Might not matter to you, but it matters to others.

I am in noway ignorant to the fact that this subject may well affect plenty of girls in this industry. But speaking about it or creating surveys about it will not change it. The ONLY thing that will change it is by you getting yourself dolled up and getting yourself on those cams, daily and working your butt off and CHANGING IT. Be the girl that other cam girls look upto.

Bare in mind you are new to camming and it was only a matter of weeks ago you done your second night on cam. It's far too early for you to judge what things guys like or will or won't pay for. It's hardly like you have been camming years and feel hard done by, you have cammed a handful of times.

I will also point out that there is one particular cam girl on MFC who is a stunning black girl who hits 1st place more than most girls on that site and there are millions on that site.

My advice would be get on the cams on one site you choose and be the girl who's at the top, making bank, despite her race!

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 03:50 PM
I am in noway ignorant to the fact that this subject may well affect plenty of girls in this industry. But speaking about it or creating surveys about it will not change it. The ONLY thing that will change it is by you getting yourself dolled up and getting yourself on those cams, daily and working your butt off and CHANGING IT. Be the girl that other cam girls look upto.

Bare in mind you are new to camming and it was only a matter of weeks ago you done your second night on cam. It's far too early for you to judge what things guys like or will or won't pay for. It's hardly like you have been camming years and feel hard done by, you have cammed a handful of times.

I will also point out that there is one particular cam girl on MFC who is a stunning black girl who hits 1st place more than most girls on that site and there are millions on that site.

My advice would be get on the cams on one site you choose and be the girl who's at the top, making bank, despite her race!
First of all, I'm not asking for advice. I never said I needed help making money because I'm black is woe is me. Never. Not in any of my posts on this account nor in any of my posts on my EatCake account. So there's no point in advising me on my sales. They're not lacking because I'm not trying or really even referring to them. There's also no point in singling me out. This thread has more than one opinion on the matter and my experience is my own and I'm entitled to my perspective of it.
Second of all, this is meant to be a conversation. I said up front in the original post of this topic that I wanted to host this discussion here. I didn't say I wanted to start a revolution and petition against anybody and make a change. Never. Not once. I've said over and over again that I wanted to talk about this. If you don't, don't. It's really as simple as that.
Lastly, my survey is just to collect data. A few pages ago, I said there is no data with demographics for cam models. I'm implementing a means of collecting that data to see if there's a trend in camming. If you don't like the idea behind the survey or the survey itself, don't take it.

These topics don't grow into a huge negative mess until someone becomes negative. There's no problems here.We're all literally adults who should be able and capable of holding a conversation without shutting people up and having a "who cares" attitude about it. If you don't care and it doesn't matter to you, don't create a point of negativity in suggesting and insinuating that even having a conversation about it is a problem. It's not. Just participate in threads that appeal to you. You've got freedom of speech and all that just like I do and everyone else does and that freedom allows you to browse other areas and reply there if they're more to your liking.

scarletl
09-18-2014, 03:54 PM
First of all, I'm not asking for advice. I never said I needed help making money because I'm black is woe is me. Never. Not in any of my posts on this account nor in any of my posts on my EatCake account. So there's no point in advising me on my sales. They're not lacking because I'm not trying or really even referring to them. There's also no point in singling me out. This thread has more than one opinion on the matter and my experience is my own and I'm entitled to my perspective of it.
Second of all, this is meant to be a conversation. I said up front in the original post of this topic that I wanted to host this discussion here. I didn't say I wanted to start a revolution and petition against anybody and make a change. Never. Not once. I've said over and over again that I wanted to talk about this. If you don't, don't. It's really as simple as that.
Lastly, my survey is just to collect data. A few pages ago, I said there is no data with demographics for cam models. I'm implementing a means of collecting that data to see if there's a trend in camming. If you don't like the idea behind the survey or the survey itself, don't take it.

These topics don't grow into a huge negative mess until someone becomes negative. There's no problems here.We're all literally adults who should be able and capable of holding a conversation without shutting people up and having a "who cares" attitude about it. If you don't care and it doesn't matter to you, don't create a point of negativity in suggesting and insinuating that even having a conversation about it is a problem. It's not. Just participate in threads that appeal to you. You've got freedom of speech and all that just like I do and everyone else does and that freedom allows you to browse other areas and reply there if they're more to your liking.

This is a very touchy subject. It's like discussing politics. It will always become heated.
And I feel that some of your comments on this thread have been somewhat uncomfortable for me to read, borderline offensive.

MissAdriana
09-18-2014, 03:54 PM
We work in an industry that is mostly based on looks. You never see 'intelligent' or 'educated' etc listed as the highest search term on a porn site. It is always blonde/bimbo/big tit/takes dick/gets fucked hard etc ... stuff along those lines. These are interchangeable depending on the site. The men are looking for a person they find attractive, doing an act that tickles their fancy. If race affects camming we need to know - what countries spend the most of camming, and of those what men spend the most time on. It would be stats, not an exact formula. The media (currently) pushes black women out there who are thin and have a big booty. That's the trend I've seen the most atm. BECAUSE OF THIS I've noticed a lot in porn and in customers they expect black women to have a big ass. On a similar note the media tends to push a thin person at us more than an overweight person. Turn on your TV right now - you won't see anyone overweight unless it is a documentary or health channel. Female bodybuilders are often criticized being labelled "manly" and "unfeminine" This is everywhere and definitely affects the way people (in general) see each other, to a certain degree, and it is affecting the customers in camming! Just watch porn you can see it. Black women are so often depicted being "the aggressor" more dominant partner. Japanese women quite the opposite. They cover their mouths and moan as if they are crying, make facial expressions as if in pain. These are exaggerated stereotypes yes but exaggerated. Why do directors do this? There must be a market for it. Why is there a market for it? Because this is what customers have been programmed to like

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 04:00 PM
This is a very touchy subject. It's like discussing politics. It will always become heated.
And I feel that some of your comments on this thread have been somewhat uncomfortable for me to read, borderline offensive.
I'm sorry you feel so negatively about what I've said. I'd suggest you not read what I have to say in this thread if they pose a detriment to you and your experience on here.

AliceFun
09-18-2014, 04:09 PM
Regarding the japanese porn, when i looked some clips up i had the feeling they were made for guys who are into rape (fantasy), that's how the girls act, like they are kinda forced into it. They are mostly very young, thin, petite, looking 'helpless' or so. Yep, even the sexual act in itself is not brutal it transmits a certain message.