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scarletl
09-18-2014, 04:13 PM
May I also point out which may play a huge factor in this, is that it's pretty clear (for unknown reasons) that there are more white cam girls than black cam girls (probably why you see majority of white cam girls on the top rows simply because there are more). Also because there are fewer black cam girls then surely they would have a greater chance of being a successful cam girl within their fetish?

Because lets be honest we are all a fetish of some kind for these men. Whether that be due to your hair colour, figure, race etc.

For example if you have one section that is your typical skinny, blonde haired, blue eyed white girl and say there are 300 girls fitting that description.
And then there is your second section that is ebony and there are only 100 girls in that section, surely there is a chance for a higher success rate due to the fact that there is less competition?

I personally have the darkest spray tans possible so make my skin look darker because that earns me more money. When I am my usual pasty self I don't earn half as much.

scarletl
09-18-2014, 04:17 PM
Regarding the japanese porn, when i looked some clips up i had the feeling they were made for guys who are into rape (fantasy), that's how the girls act, like they are kinda forced into it. They are mostly very young, thin, petite, looking 'helpless' or so. Yep, even the sexual act in itself is not brutal it transmits a certain message.

Asian cam girls (From what I have witness on many cam sites) are the most popular cam girls above any race.
Probably because they all naturally look young and innocent and many guys are into that look.
When you look on MFC you will find plenty of the highest earners are infact Asian.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-18-2014, 04:39 PM
Asian cam girls (From what I have witness on many cam sites) are the most popular cam girls above any race.
Probably because they all naturally look young and innocent and many guys are into that look.
When you look on MFC you will find plenty of the highest earners are infact Asian.

So you do realize that race is a factor. I already know this. It's just a conversation and so far everyone has been very considerate and polite. Let's keep it that way. But like many of us who do realize the divide have already said we don't let it make or break us. Being aware doesn't make us insecure and talking about it doesn't make it offensive. People who say be quiet and stop talking are the ones who do. Originally I was slow to speak on it because I wanted to see how far it went and honestly I got other things going on. Everyone has been very respectful thus far.

JaneBurgess
09-18-2014, 05:00 PM
Thank you I am going to order and read that book. That's just sad, you should be paid on your talent and race shouldn't matter. One of my favorite Streamate performers is black and she is stunning, just stunning. I Know we can say names but her initials are NB and man she is beautiful.



I have no doubt that the top girls do work their ass off......but I do have to say that I agree that race may also be a factor. Look at the American/Canadian girls on Adultwork that complain that they have a harder time since the majority of men on Adultwork are from the UK and they for the most part want UK women. So if men's sexual preference is influenced by country on Adultwork then it really isn't to far of a stretch to imagine it can also be influenced by race.

Edited to add: I skimmed the thread backwards and saw that you said that you would also like facts as well as opinions, which I completely understand.

In her book “Unequal Desires,” Siobhan Brooks* points to the drastically lower wages black strippers make in comparison to their white counterparts. She discusses at length the lower erotic capital of black women in the sex economy as being reflective of their lower value in the entire labor economy. This low value is even more apparent in the production of the types of porn films in which black women appear: The plot of black female porn is almost always centered around subjugation.

*Siobhan Brooks is an African-American lesbian feminist sociologist known for her work with African-American women in the sex worker industry and the feminist issues affecting them.

GlamourRouge
09-18-2014, 05:14 PM
Thank you I am going to order and read that book. That's just sad, you should be paid on your talent and race shouldn't matter. One of my favorite Streamate performers is black and she is stunning, just stunning. I Know we can say names but her initials are NB and man she is beautiful.

Isn't she east indian? I thought she was black too and then she said she was east indian, if it is who I think it is.

Issabelle
09-18-2014, 05:25 PM
So, I'm trying my best to tread carefully here because as others have pointed out, discussing race is like bringing politics, sex, finances, or religion up at the family dinner table. That said, if this question comes across as rude, please know that I mean nothing by it.

I'm not clear on what the exact point of this thread is. Initially, I read the poll and assumed it was asking our personal opinions on whether or not race factored into camming. I assume it was specifically focused on overall earnings, but it also seems vague enough for the answers to be camming earnings, placement, attitudes, work ethic, treatment by customers, treatment by other models, and so on. I admit I haven't looked at the poll you posted to Tumblr in your OP edit, but I will later. So, my guess was that the discussion would be focused on whether or not race is an issue in terms of earnings.

So, OP (and others) what exactly did you want this poll/survey to address? Race and it's relation to what? I'm getting the impression some of the contention is coming from feeling like contributing an opinion that may be 'unpopular,' dismissive, or from someone who isn't non-white is unwelcome. To be clear, I don't believe that was your intention at all, but that is an inherent risk in these types of (needed) conversations. And I say needed because--personally--I hate feeling like I'm walking some god awful mine field every time the issue of race as it relates to damned near anything is brought up. I can spend an hour crafting a post and internally praying I don't offend someone by hitting 'post.' I want to know exactly what the question is so I don't potentially offend people. Obviously, I'm of western european decent (that is, traditionally 'white') and I'm a bit terrified to post in here. It seems that a good conversation based on the issue of race needs to include all races, regardless of any societal conceptions of it's 'worth' in relation to other races. Perhaps a set of very focused questions would aid the direction of this conversation to that end?

TL,DR: I'd love to contribute more, but I'm not sure exactly where this was meant to go.

Annnnd, gonna go hide in a bunker for the fall out now.

JaneBurgess
09-18-2014, 05:27 PM
Hmmm maybe. I will have to ask her. I always thought she was black too but maybe Indian. Whatever she is she is just beautiful.



Isn't she east indian? I thought she was black too and then she said she was east indian, if it is who I think it is.

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 05:32 PM
So, I'm trying my best to tread carefully here because as others have pointed out, discussing race is like bringing politics, sex, finances, or religion up at the family dinner table. That said, if this question comes across as rude, please know that I mean nothing by it.

I'm not clear on what the exact point of this thread is. Initially, I read the poll and assumed it was asking our personal opinions on whether or not race factored into camming. I assume it was specifically focused on overall earnings, but it also seems vague enough for the answers to be camming earnings, placement, attitudes, work ethic, treatment by customers, treatment by other models, and so on. I admit I haven't looked at the poll you posted to Tumblr in your OP edit, but I will later. So, my guess was that the discussion would be focused on whether or not race is an issue in terms of earnings.

So, OP (and others) what exactly did you want this poll/survey to address? Race and it's relation to what? I'm getting the impression some of the contention is coming from feeling like contributing an opinion that may be 'unpopular,' dismissive, or from someone who isn't non-white is unwelcome. To be clear, I don't believe that was your intention at all, but that is an inherent risk in these types of (needed) conversations. And I say needed because--personally--I hate feeling like I'm walking some god awful mine field every time the issue of race as it relates to damned near anything is brought up. I can spend an hour crafting a post and internally praying I don't offend someone by hitting 'post.' I want to know exactly what the question is so I don't potentially offend people. Obviously, I'm of western european decent (that is, traditionally 'white') and I'm a bit terrified to post in here. It seems that a good conversation based on the issue of race needs to include all races, regardless of any societal conceptions of it's 'worth' in relation to other races. Perhaps a set of very focused questions would aid the direction of this conversation to that end?

TL,DR: I'd love to contribute more, but I'm not sure exactly where this was meant to go.

Annnnd, gonna go hide in a bunker for the fall out now.
You can just respond with your thoughts on the conversation I outlined in the original post and whether you think those statements are fact.

TheBrownFox
09-18-2014, 05:32 PM
Thank you I am going to order and read that book. That's just sad, you should be paid on your talent and race shouldn't matter. One of my favorite Streamate performers is black and she is stunning, just stunning. I Know we can say names but her initials are NB and man she is beautiful.
If it's who I think you're referring to, she shares a name with the man in the Bible who built the ark. :) I remember some guy on the AmberCutie Forum had once said he thought she's Black, but that her profile said differently (White, I believe).

AliceFun
09-18-2014, 05:48 PM
This is a very personal opinion and observation: extremely beautiful girls have the chance to reach the top in cam industry no matter the race, location, accent, whatever other reason. I mean u need to look perfect/ goddess for the guys to not take into consideration ur race or where u come from or ur accent, etc.

scarletl
09-18-2014, 05:53 PM
So you do realize that race is a factor. I already know this. It's just a conversation and so far everyone has been very considerate and polite. Let's keep it that way. But like many of us who do realize the divide have already said we don't let it make or break us. Being aware doesn't make us insecure and talking about it doesn't make it offensive. People who say be quiet and stop talking are the ones who do. Originally I was slow to speak on it because I wanted to see how far it went and honestly I got other things going on. Everyone has been very respectful thus far.

Race is a factor but so is weight, hair colour etc in this industry. The reason people don't like to discuss it is because it generally ends in upset, arguments or being offended. I've been a member on several forums in my years and always considered it a common rule to not bring up race, politics or religion.

OP has mentioned some points her friend made in a conversation stating that white women are more valued as sex workers and colour is ranked etc.
Onto then asking if these may be facts.

Well let's be honest nobody is going to come along and agree with such statement in saying white women are more valued in the sex industry. It would be rude and arrogant to agree to that.

I just don't believe it's the kind of subject to discuss on an open forum that is open to potentially strong minded offensive comments on all sides.
It's just how I feel.

Especially such strong comments regarding cam earnings and different races coming from someone who has cammed only twice.

justanothercamgirl
09-18-2014, 06:05 PM
Thank you I am going to order and read that book. That's just sad, you should be paid on your talent and race shouldn't matter. One of my favorite Streamate performers is black and she is stunning, just stunning. I Know we can say names but her initials are NB and man she is beautiful.

It makes me sad too. :(

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 06:06 PM
Race is a factor but so is weight, hair colour etc in this industry. The reason people don't like to discuss it is because it generally ends in upset, arguments or being offended. I've been a member on several forums in my years and always considered it a common rule to not bring up race, politics or religion.

OP has mentioned some points her friend made in a conversation stating that white women are more valued as sex workers and colour is ranked etc.
Onto then asking if these may be facts.

Well let's be honest nobody is going to come along and agree with such statement in saying white women are more valued in the sex industry. It would be rude and arrogant to agree to that.

I just don't believe it's the kind of subject to discuss on an open forum that is open to potentially strong minded offensive comments on all sides.
It's just how I feel.

Especially such strong comments regarding cam earnings and different races coming from someone who has cammed only twice.
Why are you talking about me to someone else?
You can keep catty and snide remarks about me and my situation to yourself or direct comments about me to ME and only ME.
One can honestly state that there's a trend amongst the earnings of people with a race based bias WITHOUT being bigoted about. The proof is in the pudding because people have said it here. WHITE people at that since you want to be indirect about who can't say what without stepping on toes.

But once again, don't worry about me. If I cammed one, two, or three times, it shouldn't be any of your business anyway to come talking ABOUT me when you're not talking TO me.
I have strong period about race related things period. As a woman of color. As someone who has studied cultural diversity. I told you once before to not come here if you can't stand to participate in the conversation. You're causing a problem right now. With me personally and with the derailment of this thread into a place of negativity.

JaneBurgess
09-18-2014, 06:18 PM
That's her. Isn't she stunning? Whatever her race is, she is a hottie.



If it's who I think you're referring to, she shares a name with the man in the Bible who built the ark. :) I remember some guy on the AmberCutie Forum had once said he thought she's Black, but that her profile said differently (White, I believe).

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 06:18 PM
I don't think any people of color who were in this thread were offended by the notion that they earn less due to being non-white. I don't think the massive majority of white people in this thread have felt offended about the notion that their whiteness contributes to their success being higher than that of others. If you have, really think about why it is that the notion of your race making you superior to others in a grand sense within an industry makes you uncomfortable and then imagine what it must feel like for those of whom agree with that notion and fall under the umbrella of being inferior to you. If you, for whatever reason, feel like you just cannot talk about this without getting your emotions involved, I'd ask that you not create a turn in the topic down a path of negativity. Not for my sake, but for the sake of the continuation of the discussion in a respectful manner. Many people have disagreed in this thread and it's been resolved in a manner that didn't result in pettiness.
To bring people up to speed, the topic is vague. Do you think race factors into the camming experience for models. With the conversation in mind, you respond however you want, but it helps to give context and elaboration for your thoughts. It's healthy to disagree. If you hear what you want to hear all the time, you don't have conviction in your thoughts and aren't given the opportunity to show why you feel what you feel. If you disagree with that, just plain hold off on participating.

TheBrownFox
09-18-2014, 06:20 PM
That's her. Isn't she stunning?
Yes, she is!

scarletl
09-18-2014, 06:21 PM
One can honestly state that there's a trend amongst the earnings of people with a race based bias WITHOUT being bigoted about. The proof is in the pudding because people have said it here. WHITE people at that since you want to be indirect about who can't say what without stepping on toes.

I have strong period about race related things period. As a woman of color. As someone who has studied cultural diversity. I told you once before to not come here if you can't stand to participate.

And that right there is where you become offensive to me. Seriously fucking offensive.

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 06:31 PM
And that right there is where you become offensive to me. Seriously fucking offensive.
If you weren't speaking indirectly about white people in your notion that "nobody" can agree with the theory in the original topic, then that's my mistake for assuming the wrong thing, but people of a variety of different racial background have been honest in their perspective that, yea, race matters to a degree within camming.

scarletl
09-18-2014, 06:31 PM
I need to get out this thread because if I'm whole heartily honest I feel offended as a 'white' woman. I feel like deep down you have something against white people.

Continuously separating black to white, putting it incapital letters.
Mentioning that if people are offended then we must think we're superior. That's bollox, you may aswell call me a racist next. The offence I've taken from your comments alone no1 else's does not make me feel superior against others.

I fortunately do not see colour, I see a group of women on this forum and cam sites. Not black, not white, just women!

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 06:38 PM
I need to get out this thread because if I'm whole heartily honest I feel offended as a 'white' woman. I feel like deep down you have something against white people.

Continuously separating black to white, putting it incapital letters.
Mentioning that if people are offended then we must think we're superior. That's bollox, you may aswell call me a racist next. The offence I've taken from your comments alone no1 else's does not make me feel superior against others.

I fortunately do not see colour, I see a group of women on this forum and cam sites. Not black, not white, just women!
I put it in capitals because I was under the assumption that you were talking about white people in your use of "nobody" and using neutral wording as to not offend.
And I never said people who are offended must think they are superior.
I'll put what I said in simpler words:
If the idea that you're better than non-white people offends you, think about how it must feel for the non-white people who think that idea is their reality.

Issabelle
09-18-2014, 06:40 PM
You can just respond with your thoughts on the conversation I outlined in the original post and whether you think those statements are fact.

Alright, green light granted, I'm gonna go to town here then. I went back to the OP and tried my best to go at those questions, but I may have gone off on tangents at times.

I absolutely do not believe white women are the most highly valued of sex workers. I believe that the 'value' of sex workers--as assumed by earnings and interest from customers--is entirely based on appearance, personality, and hustle. To break those categories down for specificity, I refer to appearance in terms of grooming and sexual appeal. Is skin color a factor? Probably, but a small one. Hair color, eye color, build, weight, facial structure, and the overall presentation of the 'package' that is a cam girl all factor into an 'appearance score.' Personality and hustle, or the ability to present a character that appeals to your target customer base and 'sell them' is also important, as a pretty girl isn't going to get very far on just a bombshell appearance. On all the sites I work, the girls on top are rarely what I would call a 'Perfect 10.' Cute-to-beautiful, yes, but the hustle and personality makes the sale.

It feels as though some people here are confusing race with features particular customers find desirable. I'm a traditionally 'French' woman in that I have the 'Roman nose.' I have those rare 'Irish green' eyes and that 1940s circa curling brown hair (lots of hairspray and heat tools ladies). I have a naturally large bust and hit the gym to try and get that desirable 'big Black ass.' My eye make up is done to echo a pointed, cat-eye look that most of my Arab friends naturally have. I tan because my ghostly white ass isn't what most men want. My point is that there are a lot of features that can primarily be attributed to one specific race or nationality that are attractive and putting together the entire package that appeals to the target customer base a camgirl or stripper has is the important thing. I don't think it's so much a socially constructed racial hierarchy at work as it is the ability of a performer to put together that 'look' that's currently in vogue with customers.

As far as fetishes for a particular race go, I don't disagree that those exist. They're entirely based in fantasy and stereotyping by customers and marketers. I don't think they impact earnings however. Again, if the goal of a camgirl is to critically evaluate herself, find her niche, and then sell, sell, sell, it's up to the girl in question if she wants to work those pre-existing fetishes for cash or branch out to try something else. A racial stereotype fetish is pretty much the same as the niches of BBWs, huge tits, bubble butts, MILFs, barely-legal, girl-on-girl, etc, in that they're fetishes for a very specific fantasy. What a camgirl decides to market in is up to her and not solely limited to racial premises.

As you mentioned in your OP, you disagree with your friend's opinion to an extent. You felt that black women were likely the least 'romanticized' and 'sexualized' group, but also that camming and stripping are what you put into it. I tend to agree with you somewhat. Obviously, if we're going to categorize things--be it by weight, age, gender, race, whatever--somebody has to come in last on the ranking. However, I don't think of it as a major issue, as overall placement in a single category (i.e. 'racial sexualization' versus, say weight') tells us anything about how they'll rank in another category. It all goes back to my niche theory--market what you've got where you want to and mold your character to do what you need to make your money and appeal to customers.

Do I think there's a trend for some women to make more money than others because of their race? Uh, yes, but it's more complicated than that. Geographical location, presence of a studio, hours online, how much money they actually want to make camming, what rates they charge, and other factors are equally important. I have the suspicion that, all other factors being equal (location, time online, age, studio, niche, blah blah blah), women of different races would likely make approximately the same hourly range. When I say yes, I mean that if someone lives in a cheaper area or needs to make less money like, say, Eastern Europe, they'd probably make less money overall. Simone said something similar when she came in about living in South Africa and the US at different times of the year.

As a parting thought, someone else mentioned that the actual racial make up of most big box cam sites tends to be predominantly white, American women. I do think that contributes to the perception of white women being more sexualized or earning more. I suspect, but don't have the time to confirm, that if one were to go through every model who regularly works SM and divide them up by racial appearance, they would find that approximately the same percentage of each race sees first page placement and hourly wages are similar based on placement (as per the algorithm of the site in question). Again, can't confirm or deny, but I suspect it. SMs new 'refresh' tool for loading the page with available models every sixty seconds is what actually leads me to think this, as it has shown me a much wider variety of models instead of the same 50 faces I was used to seeing.

Again, all conjecture.

scarletl
09-18-2014, 06:50 PM
I put it in capitals because I was under the assumption that you were talking about white people in your use of "nobody" and using neutral wording as to not offend.
And I never said people who are offended must think they are superior.
I'll put what I said in simpler words:
If the idea that you're better than non-white people offends you, think about how it must feel for the non-white people who think that idea is their reality.

It doesn't offend me. It actually really bums me out to think 'non-white' people may potentially feel that 'white' people are able to make bank easier than a 'non_white' girl.
It's upsetting to think some women may view it in that way. Especially when so many more prominent factors play a bigger part.

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 07:05 PM
There were 20 responses to the survey so far, but one of them is missing income data and the last two were submitted so soon apart that I think they may be fake.
Note that there were no other factors included such as niche, size, details of appearance, etc. Things you'd find on a site when you were looking for someone's cam.
There was also no verification process for ensuring that the incomes were accurate.
If anyone's interested:
https://pdf.yt/d/G8jzanGlT_ZruCg1
Take the last two and that one without an income and just dismiss them.

LaPetiteVierge
09-18-2014, 07:15 PM
It doesn't offend me. It actually really bums me out to think 'non-white' people may potentially feel that 'white' people are able to make bank easier than a 'non_white' girl.
It's upsetting to think some women may view it in that way. Especially when so many more prominent factors play a bigger part.
So, question.
Do you think the ideology of racial color-blindness and ignoring racial matters contributes to the reality of race issues for some people?
This is a question in a general sense, not just for camming.

Rina
09-18-2014, 07:53 PM
I haven't read all of the comments here, because I'm a bit of a hurry. I'll just weigh in with my experience, which may not be typical because I work a specific niche femdom.

I'm black, I have natural hair (long dreads), and I'm medium complected. People in verified have seen me. 90-95% of customers are white. I make what I think most girls here would consider good money. I won't give numbers. I am the only black girl in my category most days. I think my race works for me in this case.

Now I am not naive enough to think that race isn't a factor. On the pso site I work i routinely lose customers that tell me I don't "sound black". I also lost two high spending customers who found me via the phone called me for months and then finally logged on and saw I was black. Both flat out stated the assumed from my voice and the conversations that I was white and that having seen me this "just wasn't going to work".

Make of that what you will.

scarletl
09-18-2014, 08:07 PM
So, question.
Do you think the ideology of racial color-blindness and ignoring racial matters contributes to the reality of race issues for some people?
This is a question in a general sense, not just for camming.

I don't believe there is a simple yes or no answer to that. Each person will feel different.
I don't ignore racial matters, I just don't like to pin point people by colour.

Mare
09-18-2014, 08:22 PM
She attributed all this to the fact that this is a business that banks on fetish and Black women are one of the lesser desired fetishes.
Every woman is a fetish! BBW/ tattoo/ young/old/real old/skinny/fake boobs. A fetish is someone's preference that they can't do without. My guess is alot of black women bank. On the internet you can try out your fetish in the privacy of your home.
That said when I'm checking categories I check all the categories. If a chick is hot she's hot! And sometimes it's just what's between her ears.

Melonie
09-18-2014, 09:15 PM
Every woman is a fetish! BBW/ tattoo/ young/old/real old/skinny/fake boobs. A fetish is someone's preference

This point has merit ... from a pragmatic customer preference viewpoint at least. But a problem arises when attempting to conduct any pragmatic analysis and discussion because it's not a 'real world' possibility to simply go down a list of camgirl physical attributes ... hair color, eye color, skin color ... and treat skin color as 'just' a physical attribute.

Charnixxx
09-19-2014, 02:16 AM
I think race plays a factor sometimes ... but as a black woman I never felt "undesirable" or that we are the least attractive race or whatever all of that is bullshit stats some white person wrote based off a "online dating site" ... (not to offend I know u are justcreporting what you read/heard!) but i do think as a black girl u just have to work twice as hard to make what the top white models make but that goes with everything in life being black you just have to work harder. Its a white world! We are the underdogs. It is what it is! & plus Alot of black models dont invest in their image or even do their hair/makeup & have good lighting/decor so thats prob y they dont do as well. & most the black girls that do make sure they are looking top notch make good money & are up there with the white girls... I personally do well & have a good mixed fan base. so i really hate those stats saying black women are the "least desirable" group yeah right lol I sure as hell cant tell lol but I do live in Atlanta & they are very fond of chocolate here idk about the rest of the world but they need to catch up. just my two cents. Race is always a touchy subject ... Just my two cents

brownsugardoll
09-19-2014, 03:58 AM
In my opinion, I think the factors mostly based on how the cam model portrays her image and dedication. I'm dark skinned black female, and I do alright wearing my hair different styles from natural to weaves. I don't wear much make up either. So, I don't believe black cam models always need to appear up to European standards of beauty. Natural kinky hair can be just as beautiful as other races hair. We're selling virtual sex fantasies for people and it does make earn wise better when the cam model presents her beauty well and appeal classy sexy. Men has the rights to choose his preference type likes to see on cam and just can't take it too personal if the guy only wants certain features/races.

It's proven most top models are white on these cam sites. If they are on MFC, some willing to go beyond (public outside cam shows, meeting top tippers, attend conventions, network with other cam models to do shows, etc). They hustle themselves big time and can understand about them being at the top. Most of these top models also been doing cam for years which allow them to build big fan base. Other sites with stricter rules the top models focus on updating content, networking, etc. I know it can be even possible for black cam models and other minority groups if willing to do all mention. I'm limited to my cam hustle not willing to go extreme just to try to be top.

My main focus to showcase as classy sexy. I keep my rates upscale because just in general want men to appreciate my efforts spent time to look good on cam for them and full-fill fantasy. I refuse to settle for less just for being black. I do experience from time to time racist slurs thrown at me, but I know it happens to non-black cam models too.

MissAdriana
09-19-2014, 10:30 AM
Regarding the japanese porn, when i looked some clips up i had the feeling they were made for guys who are into rape (fantasy), that's how the girls act, like they are kinda forced into it. They are mostly very young, thin, petite, looking 'helpless' or so. Yep, even the sexual act in itself is not brutal it transmits a certain message.

YES THANK YOU! This is true and it makes me uneasy and I feel much more likely to affect camming overall than race alone. I have seen clips of girls supposedly sleeping and being touched without their knowledge/consent (fantasy), Japanese incest appears to be common. They dress the women very young usually in a schoolgirl outfit and the man typically in a business suit. They insinuate ageplay. Directors tell the actress to look like they aren't enjoying it. Once I saw a porn 'game show' with cardboard separating the participants and they had to guess which person was their father/daughter/brother by only touching breasts & genitals. I've never seen this type of porn done with other races. Has anybody else?

LaPetiteVierge
09-19-2014, 11:02 AM
YES THANK YOU! This is true and it makes me uneasy and I feel much more likely to affect camming overall than race alone. I have seen clips of girls supposedly sleeping and being touched without their knowledge/consent (fantasy), Japanese incest appears to be common. They dress the women very young usually in a schoolgirl outfit and the man typically in a business suit. They insinuate ageplay. Directors tell the actress to look like they aren't enjoying it. Once I saw a porn 'game show' with cardboard separating the participants and they had to guess which person was their father/daughter/brother by only touching breasts & genitals. I've never seen this type of porn done with other races. Has anybody else?
I've seen that in porn with other cultures. On Deep Web (and everywhere else online), I've unfortunately seen child pornography, zoophilia pornography, incestuous pornography , necrophilia pornography, and non-consensual sex etc with various different races participating. Incest isn't common in Japan as far as I know though.

TheBrownFox
09-19-2014, 11:18 AM
Once I saw a porn 'game show' with cardboard separating the participants and they had to guess which person was their father/daughter/brother by only touching breasts & genitals. I've never seen this type of porn done with other races. Has anybody else?
SMH. I've never seen or heard of that either.

JaneBurgess
09-19-2014, 12:03 PM
WTF? The Japanese are some strange folks




YES THANK YOU! This is true and it makes me uneasy and I feel much more likely to affect camming overall than race alone. I have seen clips of girls supposedly sleeping and being touched without their knowledge/consent (fantasy), Japanese incest appears to be common. They dress the women very young usually in a schoolgirl outfit and the man typically in a business suit. They insinuate ageplay. Directors tell the actress to look like they aren't enjoying it. Once I saw a porn 'game show' with cardboard separating the participants and they had to guess which person was their father/daughter/brother by only touching breasts & genitals. I've never seen this type of porn done with other races. Has anybody else?

loveshooks
09-19-2014, 12:21 PM
^^^lots of peeps outside the country are into it as well (referring to the bizarre rather than the disturbing here, though the latter unfortunately has appeal in every country as well). turn ons are so varied, it's kinda fascinating

Japanese porn always either horrifies or delights me (how can you not love chicas in power rangers outfits squirting bucketloads of cum out of huge fake dicks whilst doing jazz hands dance routines?), there's never any 'meh' middle ground. no disrespect to the people of Japan, the flag or the culture intended whatsoever, rather just posting this to hopefully help lighten the mood.

A Venn diagram of Japanese porn:

39023

I have a pretty large following of Japanese customers on c4s, they've helped me get up pretty high in a few categories so I'm grateful to 'em (no eels though!!)

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-19-2014, 12:36 PM
Googling this right now

LaPetiteVierge
09-19-2014, 12:46 PM
I don't think we can link to porn, but the video of it is on Motherless.com (I don't really like that site, but 4chan uses it a lot and they're otaku gaijin as hell so...).
There's a lot of weird shit in Japan. There's weird shit in Brazil too (the land of my people partially lol).
Is it a coincidence that there's a large Japanese community in Brazil?
I don't think their culture is inherently weird. I think it's just viewed as weird by us because we're westerners.
They have the best pranks and their anime is phenomenal.

redlight1500
09-19-2014, 01:23 PM
Regarding the last paragraph about black women being "at the bottom" I really think that's a bunch of bullshit and I don't buy into that idea anymore. There is a lot of media propaganda aimed at making people think that black women are sexually undesirable. I don't know about anyone else, but I refuse to walk through life with the idea that I'm "bottom class".

I'm a black woman, my hair is natural (freeformed dredlocks) and I love my hair-many of my customers compliment me and love it too. In fact, my look is what sets me apart because it is so unique. I am also beautiful and intelligent, and I put a lot of effort into my work as a cam model. Why would I walk around with my head hanging low just because certain people have been brainwashed to think differently? I don't want or need those customers. Focus on the ones who enjoy what you have to offer and forget the rest, or else you'll lose sleep over some BS you can't control.

People will always judge you one way or the other, but it's important to gain perspective and value YOURSELF and your work because that's the only way you'll succeed, whether it's in this industry, outside of it, or in your own personal life.

That said, I DO think race factors into camming, only because women of color deal with a different set of circumstances than white models do. For example, I've encountered men who fetishize black women or black cocks and ask me to play out racist scenarios. Many of us have had racist slurs thrown at us, on top of the normal sexist assholery that white models encounter from time to time. While some white models can receive similar requests from black men, the difference is that for women of color-who actually experience the effects of racism in our daily lives, this can be more emotionally taxing.

Sometimes, economic class can also play a role in how black and other women of color fare in camming, because you are basically running a small business. You need to present yourself well, be adept at social media, take care of yourself, etc. Being that women of color are disproportionately poor, some may struggle with that more because they have less time, money or energy to invest in camming as a business. Some ladies are even camming from studios in other countries under shitty circumstances, and/or can't speak good English. This is no fault of their own-just a reality.

All in all, race factors into camming no more than it factors into our everyday experiences. A lot of what we see in camming is just a reflection of our broader society. Thanks for posting this thread and bringing up the discussion. <3

luvnrockets
09-19-2014, 01:55 PM
Wow, I really wanted to continue this conversation but then I went on vacation. I'm in a very white country, mostly known for its beer (especially this time of year, which is why I'm here, fuck yeah), but also for its racist past, a past in which I would have been subjected to torture, horrible living conditions, forced labor and death, if I were alive at the time.

The color of my skin is peach wih blue-green undertones, and I look better wearing silver rather than gold. The OP asked, so there's my answer. What's my race? Human.

I hate how Judaism is lumped as both a religion and a race (I get so tired of telling people I'm an atheist, only to have them ask, "but you still don't eat bacon, right?"), but at the same time that lumping together makes the point that we should judge people based on their choices rather than what they were born into. George Carlin said something good about that too, in reference to having racial or national pride, and George Carlin was a genius.

I'll just say this: my husband discovered something interesting while writing his doctoral thesis years ago when asking participants to fill out the "race" section. Instead of options, he let participants write in their answers. You know what he found? Most people wrote countries of origin, or their parents', rather than the colors of their skin.

In reference to camming...Like prostitution, I'd assume that on average white girls earn more. But I haven't seen any statistics so it's all speculation. Nothing wrong with speculating, but that's all it is. Sorta like figuring out placement on SM lol.

luvnrockets
09-19-2014, 02:00 PM
Oh shit now we're talking about ageplay porn? There is quite a bit of American ageplay porn. I know this because I look for it, because I get off to it, because I am kinky, and because that is ok. The Japanese do it really well though lol.

Donate a few bucks to Fetlife and you'll get all the American amateur weird porn you'll want!

LaPetiteVierge
09-19-2014, 02:20 PM
Wow, I really wanted to continue this conversation but then I went on vacation. I'm in a very white country, mostly known for its beer (especially this time of year, which is why I'm here, fuck yeah), but also for its racist past, a past in which I would have been subjected to torture, horrible living conditions, forced labor and death, if I were alive at the time.

The color of my skin is peach wih blue-green undertones, and I look better wearing silver rather than gold. The OP asked, so there's my answer. What's my race? Human.

I hate how Judaism is lumped as both a religion and a race (I get so tired of telling people I'm an atheist, only to have them ask, "but you still don't eat bacon, right?"), but at the same time that lumping together makes the point that we should judge people based on their choices rather than what they were born into. George Carlin said something good about that too, in reference to having racial or national pride, and George Carlin was a genius.

I'll just say this: my husband discovered something interesting while writing his doctoral thesis years ago when asking participants to fill out the "race" section. Instead of options, he let participants write in their answers. You know what he found? Most people wrote countries of origin, or their parents', rather than the colors of their skin.

In reference to camming...Like prostitution, I'd assume that on average white girls earn more. But I haven't seen any statistics so it's all speculation. Nothing wrong with speculating, but that's all it is. Sorta like figuring out placement on SM lol.

I had a question for you personally yesterday which is why I asked about your race. It's a day later so I don't remember it.
"Jewish"/"Jews" is a demonym for people from Jerusalem (either in their immediate lineage or in their ancestry) and a term for Judaism's following. It's a dual terminology that I've never heard an actual Jewish person, as in person who was a Jew in religion and ethnicity, and I'm friends with a few.
With the very small and vague survey I provided, White women make more than black women. Someone referenced a book in this thread which spoke of the trend in stripping for black women to make significantly less than white women. I posted a video of a black pornstar talking about racial biases and racism in the porn industry.

LaPetiteVierge
09-19-2014, 02:28 PM
Regarding the last paragraph about black women being "at the bottom" I really think that's a bunch of bullshit and I don't buy into that idea anymore. There is a lot of media propaganda aimed at making people think that black women are sexually undesirable. I don't know about anyone else, but I refuse to walk through life with the idea that I'm "bottom class".

I'm a black woman, my hair is natural (freeformed dredlocks) and I love my hair-many of my customers compliment me and love it too. In fact, my look is what sets me apart because it is so unique. I am also beautiful and intelligent, and I put a lot of effort into my work as a cam model. Why would I walk around with my head hanging low just because certain people have been brainwashed to think differently? I don't want or need those customers. Focus on the ones who enjoy what you have to offer and forget the rest, or else you'll lose sleep over some BS you can't control.

People will always judge you one way or the other, but it's important to gain perspective and value YOURSELF and your work because that's the only way you'll succeed, whether it's in this industry, outside of it, or in your own personal life.

That said, I DO think race factors into camming, only because women of color deal with a different set of circumstances than white models do. For example, I've encountered men who fetishize black women or black cocks and ask me to play out racist scenarios. Many of us have had racist slurs thrown at us, on top of the normal sexist assholery that white models encounter from time to time. While some white models can receive similar requests from black men, the difference is that for women of color-who actually experience the effects of racism in our daily lives, this can be more emotionally taxing.

Sometimes, economic class can also play a role in how black and other women of color fare in camming, because you are basically running a small business. You need to present yourself well, be adept at social media, take care of yourself, etc. Being that women of color are disproportionately poor, some may struggle with that more because they have less time, money or energy to invest in camming as a business. Some ladies are even camming from studios in other countries under shitty circumstances, and/or can't speak good English. This is no fault of their own-just a reality.

All in all, race factors into camming no more than it factors into our everyday experiences. A lot of what we see in camming is just a reflection of our broader society. Thanks for posting this thread and bringing up the discussion. <3
I think the bold is something I've been trying to say, but haven't actually phrased it correctly.
I agree with everything else you've said as well. I don't think black women are at the complete bottom of the "pecking order" nor that they're considered the worst of the worst either. Obviously, we do great. There's testament to that in this thread and my camming idol kourtneykay is my role model for knowing damn well you can be a woman of color and still bring home the bacon.

luvnrockets
09-19-2014, 02:50 PM
I had a question for you personally yesterday which is why I asked about your race. It's a day later so I don't remember it.
"Jewish"/"Jews" is a demonym for people from Jerusalem (either in their immediate lineage or in their ancestry) and a term for Judaism's following. It's a dual terminology that I've never heard an actual Jewish person, as in person who was a Jew in religion and ethnicity, and I'm friends with a few.
With the very small and vague survey I provided, White women make more than black women. Someone referenced a book in this thread which spoke of the trend in stripping for black women to make significantly less than white women. I posted a video of a black pornstar talking about racial biases and racism in the porn industry.

Actually, "Judaism" and "Jewish" come from the tribe of Judah. There were indeed 12 tribes, but most Jews today have roots with the tribe of Judah (some Ethiopian Jews are thought to have come from the tribe of Benjamin, and I think there are a few other exceptions). I have lived in Jerusalem and went to Jewish Orthodox schools growing up. It really has nothing to do with Jersualem-- Jerusalem was not large enough to hold all the tribes of Israel during the time of Joshua...

This dual terminology does exist, and it is incredibly annoying. I have experienced it, as have many of my non-religious friends who were brought up in Jewish homes. In the Orthodox Jewish world, they use the terms "observant" or "non-observant" to refer to other Jews, implying that you're always a Jew, and you are God's chosen people, etc etc, no matter how nonreligious you are. It's upsetting to me from both Jews and non-Jews alike.

LaPetiteVierge
09-19-2014, 02:53 PM
Actually, "Judaism" and "Jewish" come from the tribe of Judah. There were indeed 12 tribes, but most Jews today have roots with the tribe of Judah (some Ethiopian Jews are thought to have come from the tribe of Benjamin, and I think there are a few other exceptions). I have lived in Jerusalem and went to Jewish Orthodox schools growing up. It really has nothing to do with Jersualem-- Jerusalem was not large enough to hold all the tribes of Israel during the time of Joshua...

This dual terminology does exist, and it is incredibly annoying. I have experienced it, as have many of my non-religious friends who were brought up in Jewish homes. In the Orthodox Jewish world, they use the terms "observant" or "non-observant" to refer to other Jews, implying that you're always a Jew, and you are God's chosen people, etc etc, no matter how nonreligious you are. It's upsetting to me from both Jews and non-Jews alike.
I was 1000% sure it came from people from Judea/modern-day Jerusalem (Which I know is pretty much like a city within that area), but I'll take your word for it.

luvnrockets
09-19-2014, 03:02 PM
I was 1000% sure it came from people from Judea/modern-day Jerusalem (Which I know is pretty much like a city within that area), but I'll take your word for it.

Judea, Judah, and Jerusalem are three different things.

Judea: a region of the ancient land of Israel, and today is part of the West Bank
Jerusalem: the capital city of the Kingdom of Judah, and today's capital of Israel
Judah: a tribe of the ancient Israelites, also refers to the Kingdom of Judah (all 12 tribes divided into two kingdoms-- Kingdom of Israel and Kingdom of Judah)

LaPetiteVierge
09-19-2014, 03:03 PM
Judea, Judah, and Jerusalem are three different things.

Judea: a region of the ancient land of Israel, and today is part of the West Bank
Jerusalem: the capital city of the Kingdom of Judah, and today's capital of Israel
Judah: a tribe of the ancient Israelites, also refers to the Kingdom of Judah (all 12 tribes divided into two kingdoms-- Kingdom of Israel and Kingdom of Judah)
That's cool. Thank you for clarifying that for me.

smaddy
09-19-2014, 05:22 PM
For some reason I couldn't get your survey to work. But I understand what you are saying. A former really good regular of mine was telling me how he's been looking at the local escort ads but all the white women have in their ads "no black men" and he doesn't want to see a black escort. He's black btw. I didn't say anything because it's none of my business but I completely got the impression from him that black women were somehow of lower value or "dirtier"

LaPetiteVierge
09-19-2014, 05:47 PM
For some reason I couldn't get your survey to work. But I understand what you are saying. A former really good regular of mine was telling me how he's been looking at the local escort ads but all the white women have in their ads "no black men" and he doesn't want to see a black escort. He's black btw. I didn't say anything because it's none of my business but I completely got the impression from him that black women were somehow of lower value or "dirtier"
I don't know if it's common or not, but there's a lot of black men who prefer to be with white women exclusively. I don't think the majority feel that way.
On an only slightly related note, there's a study on a dating site and based on millions of interactions that was done that showed that white men are the most likely to be contacted by any race and black women are the least likely to be contacted by any race.
http://www.npr.org/2013/11/13/244991552/online-dating-asian-women-preferred

SarahTime
09-19-2014, 06:33 PM
If I cammed one, two, or three times, it shouldn't be any of your business anyway

I have to agree with scarletl here a bit.... I think that when the topic is "Race and CAMMING" and this is Camming Connection... the opinion on race and CAMMING means.... you probably should be a cam girl. Camming one time or two times is like, I have ever cammed, it doesn't mean you ARE a cam girl... like that this is your job and something you DO. At this point, it's just something you've tried out once or twice. And yah, I do think that matters when you are trying to start a discussion about CAMMING and race.

Otherwise, it's just a discussion about the sex industry and race. Or just race in general. And if that's the case there are other places it could go other than "Camming connection" because I think that here in this area of the forum, we expect to be discussing things like this with other people who cam.

And I mean entirely no offense by this, I really just think it does matter. You can't speak much to how race effects camming from one or two times on cam.

LaPetiteVierge
09-19-2014, 07:48 PM
I have to agree with scarletl here a bit.... I think that when the topic is "Race and CAMMING" and this is Camming Connection... the opinion on race and CAMMING means.... you probably should be a cam girl. Camming one time or two times is like, I have ever cammed, it doesn't mean you ARE a cam girl... like that this is your job and something you DO. At this point, it's just something you've tried out once or twice. And yah, I do think that matters when you are trying to start a discussion about CAMMING and race.

Otherwise, it's just a discussion about the sex industry and race. Or just race in general. And if that's the case there are other places it could go other than "Camming connection" because I think that here in this area of the forum, we expect to be discussing things like this with other people who cam.

And I mean entirely no offense by this, I really just think it does matter. You can't speak much to how race effects camming from one or two times on cam.
What is with the fixation on me though? What does me not having cammed have to do with asking people about their experiences and perspectives
I asked if cam girls here agreed with the notions that were discussed in that original conversation between an actual cam girl with years of experience in myself. I didn't say I was some hot shot cam girl guru, looking to spark some "the revolution will not be televised" movement on here. I said I wanted to host the discussion.
I've been studying camming for years. By studying I mean gathering information and talking about it with experienced people.
When I first ever did something like camming, I was signed up with Internet Modeling and all I did was add photos and info after making my account. Never got nude, never did any of that. This was 2010.
http://i58.tinypic.com/2afam1i.png
I asked to have my account closed in November 2012 so that I could cam for myself directly through Streamate after seeing a thread here suggesting it.
http://i59.tinypic.com/dndbex.png
I never made a single buck so I never considered myself having cammed. I just literally logged in one time to edit my profile and that was it.
Since I didn't do anything sexual at all or have any experience with the "real" experience of camming, I didn't feel the need to talk about it. I didn't feel like it was that big of a deal.
I talked about closing my account with Internet Modeling on here, actually. In this thread. (https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?179548-Both-this-studio-and-Streamate-are-fucking-me-over)
I have NO experience with big box site camming.
I DO have experience with selling clips and photos for Amazon gift cards on Tumblr and selling the gift codes on eBay. (selling clips and photos being something talked about in this thread as well as allllll throughout the camming section) Edited to add: I ALSO have experience being a sugar baby and doing cam sex with my now-deceased sugar daddy for playboy bunny panties and iPods several, seeeeveral years ago. (Probably around 2006/2007)
I made this thread (https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?179469-*-Tumblr-for-Networking!) about Tumblr sites to be on because that's what I did to get my name out there for what I was doing. Matter of fact, I saw that very thread linked in one of the most popular threads here.

Just because I don't have ample experience with camming doesn't mean I can't talk about things like this and have people tell me their experiences. If anything, it helps me to be a better camgirl when my time comes to really cam. Me not having cammed a lot doesn't nullify the topic and the experiences people shared in here. I don't get how in the world anything pertaining to me would at all have an effect on the conversation at hand unless I missed something I said that made my opinion through having watched cams and PAID camgirls for what they do (yes, I've tipped girls who even participate in these forums and watched a few gold shows), talked to cammers, and actively participated in this forum (lurking or otherwise) on and off for 4 years. If it's that that big of a problem, then oh well. I still care about people's experiences so I'm going to continue to participate in this thread the same way somebody who isn't even a camgirl participated in this conversation as well.