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JaneBurgess
09-26-2014, 10:53 PM
I found this online and thought it was a great explanation of races.


Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or
Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.
The term "Spanish origin" can be used in addition to "Hispanic or Latino".

Not Hispanic or Latino. All other ethnicities.

Race: the following revised definitions shall be used.

White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe,
the Middle East, or North Africa.

Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the Black
racial groups of Africa.

American Indian or Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the
original peoples of North, Central and South America, and who maintains
tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far
East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including for example,
Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine
Islands, Thailand and Vietnam.

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any
of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

Melonie
09-27-2014, 02:52 AM
^^^actually I have huge problems with that definition. In my own case I have a fair amount of Native American chromosomes, but by that definition I'm not considered to be 'American Indian' because I don't maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Arguably, that definition, as well as many other situations, attempts to 'blur' chromosomes and culture. From personal experience, there is a literal 'world' of difference between Spaniards on Ibiza, vs Cubans in Miami, vs Mexicans in Texas, vs Puerto Ricans in NY ... yet all are classified as 'hispanic'

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 07:52 AM
^^^actually I have huge problems with that definition. In my own case I have a fair amount of Native American chromosomes, but by that definition I'm not considered to be 'American Indian' because I don't maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Arguably, that definition, as well as many other situations, attempts to 'blur' chromosomes and culture. From personal experience, there is a literal 'world' of difference between Spaniards on Ibiza, vs Cubans in Miami, vs Mexicans in Texas, vs Puerto Ricans in NY ... yet all are classified as 'hispanic'
I think cultural assimilation + white passing is attributed to that definition.
Because, at least here in the region of the south I'm in, there are a lot of Native American people who have completely disregarded their culture and prefer to identify as white. Since they appear to be white and classify themselves as that, it goes without being challenged? Or disputed, I guess.
But I agree that it blurs.
Hispanic is a bullshit term for me too just because it's only inclusive of Spanish speaking countries and not countries like Brazil. It's very rectangles and squares. "All Hispanics are Latino, but not all Latinos are Hispanic".
Race in general is bothersome because people just get lumped together based on outward appearance without actual regard to culture and ancestry half the time.

justanothercamgirl
09-27-2014, 10:22 AM
So interesting to me how many white cam girls here have gone so out of their way to deem this thread unimportant. I'm surprised to read, "this offends me as a white woman," and it makes me wonder what offends you exactly? Are you offended at the thought, the inclination that you make more money than women of color? Offended at the thought that race plays a factor into how you and other women make their money? Wow, that's so worth being offended about so we shouldn't discuss it.

Do my words seem harsh and scathing?

Good.

They were meant to be because those comments are derailing the topic of discussion.

Sorry, ladies, for once it's not all about you.

Woah! I just came back to this thread now after not reading it for the last little while. When did this whole thing turn into an US against THEM situation.

I have no problem admitting that black women can face more challenges then white women. Then again, I have no problem admitting transexual women have more challenges then either a black women or a white women. They aren't even allowed to be on the first page at all.

At this point, I can't help wonder what is the point of this thread? Education? Awareness?

If this is just a discussion about black women's issues while camming I will more then happily step out of that. But it was titled race and camming so I assumed we are talking about all races.

justanothercamgirl
09-27-2014, 10:36 AM
I think cultural assimilation + white passing is attributed to that definition.
Because, at least here in the region of the south I'm in, there are a lot of Native American people who have completely disregarded their culture and prefer to identify as white. Since they appear to be white and classify themselves as that, it goes without being challenged? Or disputed, I guess.
But I agree that it blurs.
Hispanic is a bullshit term for me too just because it's only inclusive of Spanish speaking countries and not countries like Brazil. It's very rectangles and squares. "All Hispanics are Latino, but not all Latinos are Hispanic".
Race in general is bothersome because people just get lumped together based on outward appearance without actual regard to culture and ancestry half the time.

I agree. I am actually Acadian. If you've never heard the term I don't blame you at all. It is really a Canadian history thing so I won't bore you with it. It does mean that I am essentially a mix and European and Native. This is interesting to see within my family because my siblings for all intensive purposes are 'brown' and I am white as a ghost.

So because I appear white does automagically make me part of the white race but my siblings who are 'brown' do they now fall in the category of being part of the non-white race even though we were born to the same parents within the same family? I am not asking this question to be trite. I honestly wonder.

I guess what I am saying is that being part of a mixed culture myself and knowing a lot of natives that are also mixed. I can see not really embracing a culture because you don't feel a connection to it.

loveshooks
09-27-2014, 10:47 AM
Race in general is bothersome because people just get lumped together based on outward appearance without actual regard to culture and ancestry half the time.

that's one of the reasons I tend to use the term 'social race' instead of 'race' (the latter implying something scientific and tangible). Race isn't really 'real', it's only real in it's consequences. It isn't real because it's a set of social constructs defined by and codified into law that often bears little resemblance to the real complexity of human heritage. Blood quantum laws were a perfect example of this, and reveal how 'race' has been wielded by those with power to entrench and sustain that power.

Ex: In the US blood quantum laws were concerned with ascribing an individual a 'Black' race if they had a minimum of 'Black blood'. This was pursued because at the time an individual defined as Black was not afforded the same rights and privileges afforded to whites. To protect their own wealth and power the whites who wrote the laws were interested in defining as many mixed individuals as they could as 'Black'.

Ex: Indian blood quantum laws. Treaties between N.A. governments and Native bands meant funds paid to bands was predicated on population of the Native group. The larger the band/total population, the more $$$$$ the band would receive. Status Indians also avoided many forms of taxation, another thing white peeps didn't like very much. Therefore the US and Canada had an interest in minimizing the total number of people legally defined as 'Indian', and Indian blood quantum laws were the reverse of Black blood quantum laws. To this day some bands require 1/2 'Indian blood' for band membership.

Both sets of laws were bullshit scientifically but they were very real in their consequences.

Both my partner and myself are perfect examples of how bullshit the concept of race really is. My mother is First Nations with very dark skin, and I'm possibly the whitest looking chica you'll ever meet. Sure I'm a half breed, but that's not my lived experience. Unlike my mother I can walk into a retail store without every clerk in the place swarming me to make sure I don't steal something. Unlike my mother I've never had someone insinuate that I got hired at a job only because of an Employment Equity program.

My partner is from Jamaica. In Jamaica he's mixed. In Canada he's Black. If we went to South Africa he'd probably be considered neither Black nor white but rather colored. All different categories, but none take away from the fact that in Canada he'd get stopped by the cops for walking/driving while Black at least once a month. Another perfect example of race as only real in it's consequences.

Race and skin privilege tend to co-exist but aren't absolute. I'm not fully white but I sure as hell have skin privilege. My partner has some white in him from somewhere back down the line but he doesn't have skin privilege. Some definitions of race are imposed from the outside, either by legal statutes or by the attitudes of other members of a society and they have fuck all to do with the complexity of ancestry.

And MarleyCat, to echo all the chicas above: thank you.

justanothercamgirl
09-27-2014, 10:54 AM
Race isn't really 'real', it's only real in it's consequences. It isn't real because it's a set of social constructs defined by and codified into law that often bears little resemblance to the real complexity of human heritage. Blood quantum laws were a perfect example of this, and reveal how 'race' has been wielded by those with power to entrench and sustain that power.

http://media.giphy.com/media/ly7PbeGWzSg00/giphy.gif

Wow, this has got to be one of the most beautifully written things I've ever read in my entire life. Kudos to you.

jovannacherry
09-27-2014, 11:37 AM
Where did I say Cuban was a race? Had you to bothered to read what I responded to she was also talking about how people thought she was white. Being light or mixed doesn't make you white, that's my point. I think some of you in here need to read before you actually respond the postings.

my reading skills are fine jane
you implied that cuban was a "race" with the I'm cuban but every damn guy thinks I'm white comment

…….. i was wondering how long it would take for someone to point out the whole race is social construct argument

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 12:51 PM
Woah! I just came back to this thread now after not reading it for the last little while. When did this whole thing turn into an US against THEM situation.

I have no problem admitting that black women can face more challenges then white women. Then again, I have no problem admitting transexual women have more challenges then either a black women or a white women. They aren't even allowed to be on the first page at all.

At this point, I can't help wonder what is the point of this thread? Education? Awareness?

If this is just a discussion about black women's issues while camming I will more then happily step out of that. But it was titled race and camming so I assumed we are talking about all races.
This is about race and camming.
This is also a safe place for people of color to discuss their unique experience.
Several white women in this thread claimed to be "offended" by the idea that their whiteness plays a role in how much they profit. They also continued to degrade the integrity of this thread through their assertions that, by focusing on race, problems are being caused.
By silencing people sharing their experiences peacefully, regarding their issue as "pointless" and therein not worthy of being discussed, and reacting in the way that they chose to react, they come across as if this thread was meant for them to be upset about themselves when it wasn't in the least bit.
Someone actually said something with VERY racist undertones and didn't even feel like it was worth clarifying what they were talking about.

These same people express empathy with BBWs and transexual/transgender individuals, but won't express that same empathy and respect for the main topic of the unique racial experience.

So, it seems like some white people are very "I I I me me me shut up you're making mad by talking about the fact you get treated like shit in a way I never will it's stupid go away" in response to a mostly peaceful discussion, sharing of experiences, and safe place to speak about these things without being told you're playing the race card or overreacting.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-27-2014, 01:13 PM
For the record I don't think you should stop posting or anyone for that matter. I think you get it and would hate to see things go off the rails again over misconceptions. This is not an US vs THEM topic. But due to several comments and a lack of understanding when it came to Ebony models versus the willingness to relate to other groups I felt that things got a bit messy. JAC please keep talking girly.




Woah! I just came back to this thread now after not reading it for the last little while. When did this whole thing turn into an US against THEM situation.

I have no problem admitting that black women can face more challenges then white women. Then again, I have no problem admitting transexual women have more challenges then either a black women or a white women. They aren't even allowed to be on the first page at all.

At this point, I can't help wonder what is the point of this thread? Education? Awareness?

If this is just a discussion about black women's issues while camming I will more then happily step out of that. But it was titled race and camming so I assumed we are talking about all races.

justanothercamgirl
09-27-2014, 01:42 PM
This is about race and camming.
This is also a safe place for people of color to discuss their unique experience.
Several white women in this thread claimed to be "offended" by the idea that their whiteness plays a role in how much they profit. They also continued to degrade the integrity of this thread through their assertions that, by focusing on race, problems are being caused.
By silencing people sharing their experiences peacefully, regarding their issue as "pointless" and therein not worthy of being discussed, and reacting in the way that they chose to react, they come across as if this thread was meant for them to be upset about themselves when it wasn't in the least bit.
Someone actually said something with VERY racist undertones and didn't even feel like it was worth clarifying what they were talking about.

These same people express empathy with BBWs and transexual/transgender individuals, but won't express that same empathy and respect for the main topic of the unique racial experience.

So, it seems like some white people are very "I I I me me me shut up you're making mad by talking about the fact you get treated like shit in a way I never will it's stupid go away" in response to a mostly peaceful discussion, sharing of experiences, and safe place to speak about these things without being told you're playing the race card or overreacting.

I hope you don't believe that I am one of those people who think that this thread is pointless by asking what the point of this thread was. There is so much anger going around and I am just trying to understand what the heck happened.

For what it is worth I have empathy for ANYONE who cams no matter who they are or where they come from or what ever sexuality they identify with. I have no doubt that when it comes to any girl's experience when it comes to camming that she isn't overreacting. I have no doubt that race plays a part or that countries play a part or that language does or a million other different factors. I would never deny anyone their pain or experience. I guess it confuses me that anyone would deny anyone their pain or their experience no matter who they are. I can only imagine how frustrating that would be.

scarletl
09-27-2014, 01:42 PM
This is about race and camming.
This is also a safe place for people of color to discuss their unique experience.
Several white women in this thread claimed to be "offended" by the idea that their whiteness plays a role in how much they profit. They also continued to degrade the integrity of this thread through their assertions that, by focusing on race, problems are being caused.
By silencing people sharing their experiences peacefully, regarding their issue as "pointless" and therein not worthy of being discussed, and reacting in the way that they chose to react, they come across as if this thread was meant for them to be upset about themselves when it wasn't in the least bit.
Someone actually said something with VERY racist undertones and didn't even feel like it was worth clarifying what they were talking about.

These same people express empathy with BBWs and transexual/transgender individuals, but won't express that same empathy and respect for the main topic of the unique racial experience.

So, it seems like some white people are very "I I I me me me shut up you're making mad by talking about the fact you get treated like shit in a way I never will it's stupid go away" in response to a mostly peaceful discussion, sharing of experiences, and safe place to speak about these things without being told you're playing the race card or overreacting.

(I'm in a shit place right now and I don't want to start this all over again, I am sure you don't either, because we are grown women)

I will take the assumption that this post included my thoughts and opinions on the thread, because I did express those views but not in the way you have explained above.
I didn't get offended at the fact that my 'whiteness' (as you so put it) plays a role in how much I profit. I become offended after a while because this felt like a 'black women only' thread and I don't think it's kind to have a thread for black or white women only. Not saying you said it was but certain things you said come across that way and that's how I felt I felt offended that I wasn't overly welcome into a thread because I am white.
Why separate your race like that? We are a community of cam girls, there shouldn't be no separating by colour.

I never said your feelings or your struggles as a cam girl are pointless, you have the right to feel how you want. I felt subjects such as race, religion and politics are not always such a great thing to discuss on a forum with so many people with so many views. Because if we are honest at time to time this thread has become out of hand and arguments have happened and people from both sides have become offended.
Some girls come on this thread and made it oh so clear that our 'white people' opinions are not cared for on this thread....which I didn't stoop so low enough to respond to purely because that's just damn outright wrong and if the shoe was on the other foot, boy would we be deemed as racist.

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 01:46 PM
I hope you don't believe that I am one of those people who think that this thread is pointless by asking what the point of this thread was. There is so much anger going around and I am just trying to understand what the heck happened.

For what is is worth I have empathy for ANYONE who cams no matter who they are or where they come from or what ever sexuality they identify with. I have no doubt that when it comes to any girl's experience when it comes to camming that she isn't overreacting. I have no doubt that race plays a part or that countries play a part or that language does or a million other different factors. I would never deny anyone their pain or experience. I guess it confuses me that anyone would deny anyone their pain or their experience no matter who they are. I can only imagine how frustrating that would be.
Oh no, I'm not talking about you! I'm speaking generally and vaguely since it was more than one person. Sorry for not being clear about that.
That's what a few of us were so heated about though @ the bold. Being denied the ability to have a safe space to discuss these things.
It's tragic for anybody to go through this. There's a unique experience that can be had that factors into race, sexual orientation, gender identity, weight, and all that. It's unfortunate that it's not just equal for any of us, man.

justanothercamgirl
09-27-2014, 01:52 PM
It's unfortunate that it's not just equal for any of us, man.

Not to mention that we are all sex workers. That is like a double-whammy!

SarahTime
09-27-2014, 02:02 PM
It's unfortunate that it's not just equal for any of us, man.

We should all be treated equal in the fact that we are all human beings deserving of respect and fair treatment.

But everything not being equal when it comes to business aka camming, is a normal and good thing. Otherwise, what would we have? Communism? The business world is not an equal place and I don't believe it would work out too well if it were. If everything were equal in business/camming then there would be no "top" models... no hugely successful businesses... we would all just be... the same. There would be no "greats".

I still believe that ANYONE can make it to the top in camming - regardless of race, size, shape, penis or no penis, anyone at all can make it to the big bucks if they have the right attitude, the right hustle, and are willing to work hard.

The top tier of sites like Streamate are very diverse. There are white women, black women, bbw women, asian women, everyone. Well... except men and transsexuals... why can't they be on the front pages of Streamate? They are not allowed to be. But I'm sure if they were allowed to be, there would be some among the top models on the sites they work because some of them are extremely popular and very hard working.

Hard work pays off no matter what you look like. Everyone has to work hard to get where they are, some have to work harder than others, yes, but it is not impossible to get where you want to be. Don't limit yourself by thinking your race or size or whatever else is a negative for you.

That is why we are not all equal in camming. How fair would it be if everyone was in the "top" just for showing up? There would be no top. It would be pointless.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-27-2014, 02:08 PM
In an attempt to continue the goodness of the discussion, I want to post something that can benefit everyone. Pornhub just updated the stats for their site. Most searched terms based on location. The busiest/horniest times of year for porn watchers etc etc. All of this was done based upon US demographics. Sorry girls located elsewhere :( Pornhub's traffic is made up mostly of Americans by 40%.

The update is here:
http://www.pornhub.com/insights/the-united-states-duration-nation/ This is important I feel and can help decide where to place your marketing dollars.

The list of most searched keywords for the site here:
http://www.pornhub.com/insights/what-do-people-in-the-us-search-for-in-pornhub-and-how-long-they-last-in-each-visit/
http://www.pornhub.com/insights/top-search-terms-usa-cities/

I have questions about this because Latina and White aren't anywhere on any of these list? So I wonder if that means that porn watchers only think in terms of color when regarding people who can't pass for white?

Jay12
09-27-2014, 02:27 PM
I detest the label "women of color" when it's used for ALL Latin-American people. Why? About 53% of Latin-Americans are white, for starters. Second, many Latin-Americans are much more "white" than many so-called "whites": both genetically and physically.

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 02:44 PM
We should all be treated equal in the fact that we are all human beings deserving of respect and fair treatment.

But everything not being equal when it comes to business aka camming, is a normal and good thing. Otherwise, what would we have? Communism? The business world is not an equal place and I don't believe it would work out too well if it were. If everything were equal in business/camming then there would be no "top" models... no hugely successful businesses... we would all just be... the same. There would be no "greats".

I still believe that ANYONE can make it to the top in camming - regardless of race, size, shape, penis or no penis, anyone at all can make it to the big bucks if they have the right attitude, the right hustle, and are willing to work hard.

The top tier of sites like Streamate are very diverse. There are white women, black women, bbw women, asian women, everyone. Well... except men and transsexuals... why can't they be on the front pages of Streamate? They are not allowed to be. But I'm sure if they were allowed to be, there would be some among the top models on the sites they work because some of them are extremely popular and very hard working.

Hard work pays off no matter what you look like. Everyone has to work hard to get where they are, some have to work harder than others, yes, but it is not impossible to get where you want to be. Don't limit yourself by thinking your race or size or whatever else is a negative for you.

That is why we are not all equal in camming. How fair would it be if everyone was in the "top" just for showing up? There would be no top. It would be pointless.
Equal in treatment is all I meant.

justanothercamgirl
09-27-2014, 02:45 PM
We should all be treated equal in the fact that we are all human beings deserving of respect and fair treatment.

But everything not being equal when it comes to business aka camming, is a normal and good thing. Otherwise, what would we have? Communism? The business world is not an equal place and I don't believe it would work out too well if it were. If everything were equal in business/camming then there would be no "top" models... no hugely successful businesses... we would all just be... the same. There would be no "greats".

I still believe that ANYONE can make it to the top in camming - regardless of race, size, shape, penis or no penis, anyone at all can make it to the big bucks if they have the right attitude, the right hustle, and are willing to work hard.

The top tier of sites like Streamate are very diverse. There are white women, black women, bbw women, asian women, everyone. Well... except men and transsexuals... why can't they be on the front pages of Streamate? They are not allowed to be. But I'm sure if they were allowed to be, there would be some among the top models on the sites they work because some of them are extremely popular and very hard working.

Hard work pays off no matter what you look like. Everyone has to work hard to get where they are, some have to work harder than others, yes, but it is not impossible to get where you want to be. Don't limit yourself by thinking your race or size or whatever else is a negative for you.

That is why we are not all equal in camming. How fair would it be if everyone was in the "top" just for showing up? There would be no top. It would be pointless.

I would never ever dare to speak for anyone in this thread but where I think the miscommunication is happening is that what being looked for is just the validation of unfairness of the experience. Plain and simple. Just to be heard and acknowledged.

This is just my opinion and I could be completely wrong on this one (it wouldn't be the first time) but I feel that some people are feeling invalidated when told that anyone can make it to the top when camming.

I completely believe that you have no intention of invalidating their experience.....you are one of the sweetest and most hardworking camgirls I know so I trust your intent but I think that things are getting all mixed up because of this miscommunication.

Hmmmm....what can I use as an example......you know how when someone has just lost someone they loved, or a job or are experience some other types of emotional pain but when you try to give them advice no matter how well-intentioned they will become angry because they feel as if the act of giving that advice means that you don't care about their emotional experience and that you are not really listening? That is what I believe is happening here.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong......I would hate to state a false assumption and I would never presume to speak for the group.

Jay12
09-27-2014, 02:48 PM
You're right about that.

I wonder if women of color make less than white women though. On average and as a whole.

Normally they do, but only if you factor experience and level of education.

For example, during the holidays I worked at a store for a few extra bucks. However, I was getting paid the most for that particular position because of my education and work experience. Most blacks were making less because their level of education and/or experience was not up to pair, and the same was true for the Latin-Americans who didn't had enough education and/or work experience.

Jay12
09-27-2014, 02:51 PM
Ethnicity/race/nationality get used fairly interchangeably. I guess what she's saying could be interpreted as "Latino/a".
She doesn't look/sound/use a Latino name, but she is presumably just be a white passing Latino person.
Like how Nicole Richie, Audrey Plaza, and Rashida Jones are all biracial and white passing.

Aubrey Plaza is not biracial: Puerto Rican=/=race. Tons and tons of Puerto Ricans look like her.

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 02:54 PM
Aubrey Plaza is not biracial: Puerto Rican=/=race. Tons and tons of Puerto Ricans look like her.
Puerto Rican = Latino.
Latino = race.
1+1=2
White+Latino=biracial

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 02:56 PM
Normally they do, but only if you factor experience and level of education.

For example, during the holidays I worked at a store for a few extra bucks. However, I was getting paid the most for that particular position because of my education and work experience. Most blacks were making less because their level of education and/or experience was not up to pair, and the same was true for the Latin-Americans who didn't had enough education and/or work experience.
My statement was about camming

SarahTime
09-27-2014, 03:02 PM
I would never ever dare to speak for anyone in this thread but where I think the miscommunication is happening is that what being looked for is just the validation of unfairness of the experience. Plain and simple. Just to be heard and acknowledged.

This is just my opinion and I could be completely wrong on this one (it wouldn't be the first time) but I feel that some people are feeling invalidated when told that anyone can make it to the top when camming.

I completely believe that you have no intention of invalidating their experience.....you are one of the sweetest and most hardworking camgirls I know so I trust your intent but I think that things are getting all mixed up because of this miscommunication.

Hmmmm....what can I use as an example......you know how when someone has just lost someone they loved, or a job or are experience some other types of emotional pain but when you try to give them advice no matter how well-intentioned they will become angry because they feel as if the act of giving that advice means that you don't care about their emotional experience and that you are not really listening? That is what I believe is happening here.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong......I would hate to state a false assumption and I would never presume to speak for the group.

That makes sense. I totally get what you are saying.

I'm glad you think I'm sweet lol because I get told that I'm insensitive. I think it's because I am the type of person who prefers to take action rather than accept what is happening to me. That doesn't mean I don't care about people or what they are going through, I'm always just looking for a better end result I guess? So I probably expect other people to do the same unintentionally, because that's how my brain works.

So when I see this thread I'm thinking okay, some women have these experiences and they obviously want to change that. So what can they do? They cannot change the way their skin looks nor can they change the way other people behave, but they can change things like their attitude and their way of working, etc. So that's kind of what I meant. I imagine it is extremely hard to deal with what some people have to deal with, and it know it sucks beyond explanation just by reading experiences here.

I'm not as good at discussing the why, I'm better at the "what can I do about it?" part. :)

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 03:03 PM
(I'm in a shit place right now and I don't want to start this all over again, I am sure you don't either, because we are grown women)

I will take the assumption that this post included my thoughts and opinions on the thread, because I did express those views but not in the way you have explained above.
I didn't get offended at the fact that my 'whiteness' (as you so put it) plays a role in how much I profit. I become offended after a while because this felt like a 'black women only' thread and I don't think it's kind to have a thread for black or white women only. Not saying you said it was but certain things you said come across that way and that's how I felt I felt offended that I wasn't overly welcome into a thread because I am white.
Why separate your race like that? We are a community of cam girls, there shouldn't be no separating by colour.

I never said your feelings or your struggles as a cam girl are pointless, you have the right to feel how you want. I felt subjects such as race, religion and politics are not always such a great thing to discuss on a forum with so many people with so many views. Because if we are honest at time to time this thread has become out of hand and arguments have happened and people from both sides have become offended.
Some girls come on this thread and made it oh so clear that our 'white people' opinions are not cared for on this thread....which I didn't stoop so low enough to respond to purely because that's just damn outright wrong and if the shoe was on the other foot, boy would we be deemed as racist.
I don't know a single past in this thread that insinuated blatantly stated that white opinions don't matter beyond asserting the fact that the continued notion that this conversation is pointless was not only unnecessary but also offensive. No one has ever said this was "black only" or insinuated that. Some black women got offended because you and a few other people made it seem like us talking about this was inherently a problem. The only time I spoke of something being exclusive for people of color was with the terminology of people of color because it's meant for non-white people to identify themselves. And I noted that it was not meant to banish white people from something more than be a term for non-white people. If that point is still null for any white people feeling left out of the "people of color" terminology party, then there's nothing more that can be said about it. It's a personal problem at that point.
Literally within the same page as your original fruitful comment, you asked "does it matter". That is the issue. It matters.

Jay12
09-27-2014, 03:03 PM
Puerto Rican = Latino.
Latino = race.
1+1=2
White+Latino=biracial

Honey, Hispanic is not a race; in the same way Scandinavian and Mediterranean are not different races. Please, educate yourself.

http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/reic/definitions.asp

SarahTime
09-27-2014, 03:09 PM
Honey, Hispanic is not a race (in the same way Scandinavian is not a race). Please, educate yourself.

http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/reic/definitions.asp

It seems like this whole time "race" is being defined as anyone who is "white" and "not white", and I am getting that by the way that "white passing" keeps being used. The technical definition of race definitely doesn't seem to be what is being talked about. I think loveshooks referred to "social race" as what is really being spoken of here.

I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. :)

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 03:17 PM
Honey, Hispanic is not a race; in the same way Scandinavian and Mediterranean are not different races. Please, educate yourself.

http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/reic/definitions.asp
Lol okay "honey".

scarletl
09-27-2014, 03:17 PM
I don't know a single past in this thread that insinuated blatantly stated that white opinions don't matter beyond asserting the fact that the continued notion that this conversation is pointless was not only unnecessary but also offensive. No one has ever said this was "black only" or insinuated that. Some black women got offended because you and a few other people made it seem like us talking about this was inherently a problem. The only time I spoke of something being exclusive for people of color was with the terminology of people of color because it's meant for non-white people to identify themselves. And I noted that it was not meant to banish white people from something more than be a term for non-white people. If that point is still null for any white people feeling left out of the "people of color" terminology party, then there's nothing more that can be said about it. It's a personal problem at that point.
Literally within the same page as your original fruitful comment, you asked "does it matter". That is the issue. It matters.

Well I would like to apologize to you for my initial "does it matter" comment. I believe at that moment I didn't quite understand what you was trying to get across in your first post until you went on to discuss it further.
It does matter, discrimination of any kind matters.

I would also like to get my point across that any black cam girl who does feel victimized on cams by the immature childish men that will be on there, that we all in one way or another get targeted, discriminated, bullied, hurled insults at and god knows else what. Whether that be because of your race, skin colour, transgender, weight, hair colour, boob size and everything else. What I think I am trying to say is don't feel upset that you are (whoever is reading this not anyone in particular) the only one, because we have all had it, some worse than others.

I know how hurtful it is to feel singled out and discriminated. I had naturally ginger hair as a child and teen and I was bullied so badly, called names, made to feel different, made to feel unwelcome, embarrassed of how I looked and singled out. I changed my hair colour purely because of the bullies, just so I could actually fit in.
I have stayed brunette ever since and there is no way I would actually be happy to go back to my natural colour hair, especially because I am on cams and know there would be a bunch of asshats that would insult me for it.
If anyone is actually aware of the hatred there is towards gingers (for some weird reason) get told they have no soul (that's damn hurtful) get classes as being automatically ugly because of your hair colour.

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 03:20 PM
It seems like this whole time "race" is being defined as anyone who is "white" and "not white", and I am getting that by the way that "white passing" keeps being used. The technical definition of race definitely doesn't seem to be what is being talked about. I think loveshooks referred to "social race" as what is really being spoken of here.

I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. :)
You're right.
But I'm not going to argue about it with her. She has the right to feel however she wants to, so I'll let it ride

justanothercamgirl
09-27-2014, 03:25 PM
I don't know a single past in this thread that insinuated blatantly stated that white opinions don't matter beyond asserting the fact that the continued notion that this conversation is pointless was not only unnecessary but also offensive. No one has ever said this was "black only" or insinuated that. Some black women got offended because you and a few other people made it seem like us talking about this was inherently a problem. The only time I spoke of something being exclusive for people of color was with the terminology of people of color because it's meant for non-white people to identify themselves. And I noted that it was not meant to banish white people from something more than be a term for non-white people. If that point is still null for any white people feeling left out of the "people of color" terminology party, then there's nothing more that can be said about it. It's a personal problem at that point.
Literally within the same page as your original fruitful comment, you asked "does it matter". That is the issue. It matters.

The reason I had originally posted to ask what was going on in the thread and asked about the US vs THEM thing was I was feeling (which now appears without merit) the whole 'white opinions need not apply' vibe in regards to the 'white women's feelings don't count' statement. And that it 'wasn't about us'.

This is in no way to defend anything you two might have discussed in the past......or to open up a whole new can of worms on the issue but only to clarify that with all the misunderstanding that was going around that I myself was also wondering if my opinion was was welcome in the thread.

But of course PhatGirlDynomite is so awesome that she set me straight. :)

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 03:27 PM
Well I would like to apologize to you for my initial "does it matter" comment. I believe at that moment I didn't quite understand what you was trying to get across in your first post until you went on to discuss it further.
It does matter, discrimination of any kind matters.

I would also like to get my point across that any black cam girl who does feel victimized on cams by the immature childish men that will be on there, that we all in one way or another get targeted, discriminated, bullied, hurled insults at and god knows else what. Whether that be because of your race, skin colour, transgender, weight, hair colour, boob size and everything else. What I think I am trying to say is don't feel upset that you are (whoever is reading this not anyone in particular) the only one, because we have all had it, some worse than others.

I know how hurtful it is to feel singled out and discriminated. I had naturally ginger hair as a child and teen and I was bullied so badly, called names, made to feel different, made to feel unwelcome, embarrassed of how I looked and singled out. I changed my hair colour purely because of the bullies, just so I could actually fit in.
I have stayed brunette ever since and there is no way I would actually be happy to go back to my natural colour hair, especially because I am on cams and know there would be a bunch of asshats that would insult me for it.
If anyone is actually aware of the hatred there is towards gingers (for some weird reason) get told they have no soul (that's damn hurtful) get classes as being automatically ugly because of your hair colour.

Thank you very much for your patience in clarifying

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 03:29 PM
Forgive me if I make typos. I'm mobile and watching Dateline.

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 03:34 PM
The reason I had originally posted to ask what was going on in the thread and asked about the US vs THEM thing was I was feeling (which now appears without merit) the whole 'white opinions need not apply' vibe in regards to the 'white women's feelings don't count' statement. And that it 'wasn't about us'.

This is in no way to defend anything you two might have discussed in the past......or to open up a whole new can of worms on the issue but only to clarify that with all the misunderstanding that was going around that I myself was also wondering if my opinion was was welcome in the thread.
Her statement came from the assumption and assertion that the conversation about race and camming was inherently offensive for white women. If you look back a few pages, a few people insisted that the conversation was offensive towards white people. Can't remember who exactly, but someone had correlated the idea that white women make more than other groups with camming Asians lazy in its offensiveness which I think just made all similar comments seem one in the same.

scarletl
09-27-2014, 03:37 PM
To be honest in this whole thread. There was only technically one person who made it abundantly clear that this thread was not for white women. LaPetiteVierge wasn't the one to verbalize that, someone else come along and said it more or less outright.

justanothercamgirl
09-27-2014, 03:43 PM
Her statement came from the assumption and assertion that the conversation about race and camming was inherently offensive for white women. If you look back a few pages, a few people insisted that the conversation was offensive towards white people. Can't remember who exactly, but someone had correlated the idea that white women make more than other groups with camming Asians lazy in its offensiveness which I think just made all similar comments seem one in the same.

For what it is worth, I am glad this thread has happened. I know I've learned a lot from it!

To tell you the truth, I didn't even know there was a research book on the income of black strippers in comparison to their white counterparts until the topic got me curious and looked it up. The whole topic made me wonder if there had been academic research on done it somewhere. :)

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
09-27-2014, 03:59 PM
Exactly! Currently I'm researching Hip Hop Demographics :) Mainly because someone brought up Ebony Models listening to rap and it may be a deterrent for customers. But yet other non-black cammers seem to strive when listening to it. So how can that be true or why do people believe this when supposedly 80% of hip hop consumers were white? Because mainly that's what I've been told for like ever and many of my white friends listen to rap. So of course that's true, right? After reading more into I've found that there is no real evidence that supports this. The articles that I've read are saying it's a marketing ploy to keep those with the most buying power in the majority so they can continue to make more and more money. And over time that falsehood is becoming a reality. Product placement is a major element in hip hop. If it wasn't for this thread it may have taken me longer to realize that. I can only speculate as to why people assume that an ebony cammer is less attractive when they listen to hip hop. I'm gonna go get ready for work cuz bills. But if you have anything constructive to add please do. Also I wanna know more about having a bombass audio set up so that my loud music doesn't come out like a squawk box.


For what it is worth, I am glad this thread has happened. I know I've learned a lot from it!e

To tell you the truth, I didn't even know there was a research book on the income of black strippers in comparison to their white counterparts until the topic got me curious and looked it up. The whole topic made me wonder if there had been academic research on done it somewhere. :)

scarletl
09-27-2014, 04:25 PM
Exactly! Currently I'm researching Hip Hop Demographics :) Mainly because someone brought up Ebony Models listening to rap and it may be a deterrent for customers. But yet other non-black cammers seem to strive when listening to it. So how can that be true or why do people believe this when supposedly 80% of hip hop consumers were white? Because mainly that's what I've been told for like ever and many of my white friends listen to rap. So of course that's true, right? After reading more into I've found that there is no real evidence that supports this. The articles that I've read are saying it's a marketing ploy to keep those with the most buying power in the majority so they can continue to make more and more money. And over time that falsehood is becoming a reality. Product placement is a major element in hip hop. If it wasn't for this thread it may have taken me longer to realize that. I can only speculate as to why people assume that an ebony cammer is less attractive when they listen to hip hop. I'm gonna go get ready for work cuz bills. But if you have anything constructive to add please do. Also I wanna know more about having a bombass audio set up so that my loud music doesn't come out like a squawk box.

I find when I start playing rap music or heavy hip hop music it kinda puts guys off in my room. Especially the guys you want in your room.
Rap and hip hop is more popular with the younger generation (generally teens to 30s) anyone over that tends to not like it that much. Ideally we don't want the really young 18 year old's hanging out in our room, we want the mature respectable guys who are possibly on a higher income and who will spend rather than freeload.
(Not saying all young guys are freeloaders but it can attract immaturity within the room)

GlamourRouge
09-27-2014, 05:23 PM
It seems like this whole time "race" is being defined as anyone who is "white" and "not white", and I am getting that by the way that "white passing" keeps being used. The technical definition of race definitely doesn't seem to be what is being talked about. I think loveshooks referred to "social race" as what is really being spoken of here.

I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. :)

I even hate the concept of "white passing" and "social race" because some people pass as white to some people, and latina or middle eastern (i.e. getting those dumb "terrorist" comments, for example) to other people. That happens to me all the time. So while someone may look "white" to one person, other people may view that person and think "middle eastern" or "east indian" or something. Especially if you bleach your hair blonde (you may look white then) or dye your hair back to your natural dark hair (you may not appear white anymore). It happens all the time to me.


That being said, discrimination is discrimination. People are discriminated against for their real race, perceived race, or skin color obviously... but also things like fat, ugly, big nose, thin hair, wide-set eyes, close-set eyes, thick eyebrows, thin eyebrows, manly looking when you're a woman, feminine looking when you're a man, deformities, mental or social disabilities, your culture, who your parents are, your name, and several other things that can be just as hurtful as discrimination based on perceived race/skin color. Intersectionality I suppose, but to me, that is just as bad as racism. You cannot say some hurtful comments are more hurtful than others. That just isn't true.

This shouldn't be a marathon for who feels more discriminated against. That doesn't exist. Discrimination is discrimination. That's why I find this entire thread really silly.

loveshooks
09-27-2014, 06:20 PM
I even hate the concept of "white passing" and "social race" because some people pass as white to some people, and latina or middle eastern (i.e. getting those dumb "terrorist" comments, for example) to other people. That happens to me all the time. So while someone may look "white" to one person, other people may view that person and think "middle eastern" or "east indian" or something. Especially if you bleach your hair blonde (you may look white then) or dye your hair back to your natural dark hair (you may not appear white anymore). It happens all the time to me.

to deny social race in it's consequences is to deny white- and light-skin privilege. as to your point about people's perceptions, the fact remains that while each of us have the ability to define ourselves and negotiate our identity as it is presented to the world, certain characteristics, judgments and levels of privilege and oppression are imposed from the outside. Social race as a concept acknowledges that race is not a 'black and white' matter (pardon the pun y'all couldn't resist) but rather reflections of power- both economic and social. It also recognizes that the closer one appears to the default white 'norm' the more latitude they are afforded in defining their identity for themselves (your comment about imposed definitions altering based on your choice of hair dye conforms to that theory).

you may find this thread 'silly' but the experiences of racialized women on and off cam aren't. they are silenced and denied here on sw, on the internet, in real life everyday. Sometimes peeps would like a space to discuss their own experiences without having the focus changed to managing the feelings of those not personally affected, I'm baffled why this is so difficult for so many to understand. That has nothing to do with 'shutting people out'.

anyways, props y'all, this is the first thread on sw dealing with race that isn't going to end in a lock. the last one devolved into a barrage of racial slurs and pictures so granted the bar has been set pretty low but still. so much really wicked material, huge thanks to everyone who has helped salvage a wicked discussion out of some tense spots.

SpaceyLaceyButterfacey
09-27-2014, 06:41 PM
I personally believe that we are all born equal (in terms of liberties of life). We should all work together to destroy all forms of discrimination. We are all of the same species as a whole. We are humans that have brains and are capable of advanced thinking. We should work together to better ourselves to grow and evolve. Race has nothing to do with growing and evolving to better ourselves. It is how we treat each other, keeping an open mind to all possibilities of life (physical and intellectual) and seeing the benefit of wiping out ALL discrimination (race, gender, physicality)that will make us a better species. We are not as great as we can be by blocking our mind and thoughts with a wall such a racism.

But to answer your question, YES, I do think that race plays a role in camming --

-- there are true racists who dislike a certain race or all races that they aren't'.
-- there are men who aren't necessarily racist (racist meaning someone who thinks one race is superior to another), but will choose their cam girl based on her race. Strictly something sexual. I hope that makes sense.... For example... I have a reg that likes my legs. he doesn't think I am better than anyone with legs that aren't like mine, he just gets off to mine.
--there is a higher percentage of "white" people than other races.. (explaination below).

However I don't think camming is strictly impacted by race...
-there are some men who visit cam sites that are looking for something particular (fetish, a certain type of clothing, etc) and will find any girl to do that particular act regardless of race.
-there are some men who visit cam sites who don't care about race but will look for a girl he is physically attracted to ( pretty eyes, long legs, big butt, etc) and not care about skin color.


And this came to mind when I was reading previous threads about why "white" women dominate the top spaces of cam sites...Just an idea, not saying it's necessarily the fact.

There is a higher percentage of "white" people (men and women) in the US. Like, 78% or something in that realm?? I think that although they may not be racist , the majority of people are attracted to the same race as they are. Since there is a much higher percentage of "whites", of course there will be more "white" cam girls. Also why there is more "white" men who visit cam sites. Just a higher percentage. I do think that if you aren't "white" that it would and does impact camming, as well as all other aspects of life.

Disclaimer: Im using quotes because there seems to be disagreements on what "white" is, or other "colors" for that matter. I also am not looking to offend anyone, so sorrynotsorry if you take it offensively, I can't help that. :P


I do want to give props to LaPetiteVierge for having the guts to post a thread of this nature. I saw when this thread was started and I just knew some people would get offended and take it personally before anyone even posted. I think some don't know how to discuss race without automatically thinking racism and taking offense.

LaPetiteVierge
09-27-2014, 08:50 PM
I made (and deleted) that comment. I tried to clarify a couple of times, and ultimately gave up, because sometimes (most of the time) I'm not very good at expressing my complicated thoughts. I listen to rap and hip hop and the blues on cam. I do not listen to music that uses the n-word.

I don't want to derail the thread. I just wanted to point out that any music at all (country, the blues, rock, whatever) that heavily features the n-word may impact your hustle. It's really irrelevant. I got curioius after looking at this thread. Went to watch cams. Saw a trend that I figured would have an effect on the sorts of clients you get.

I generally only look at models with better placement than mine. I've actually never seen any of them play music that uses the n-word. Most of them don't seem to play music at all.

Race obviously has an impact. Posters here keep comparing race to being fat. As a BBW, I don't necessarily feel that I have to work harder than thin women. I do feel that I have to pay more attention to how my audience perceives me. I have more negative stereotypes working against me. I know that I have to be aware of those biases, and I like to consider what actions I can take to counteract them. I spend a lot of time trying to think of ways to appeal to as many potential clients as possible (not just bbw enthusiasts.) My posts came from that mindset.
Rap music that uses "the n word", to my knowledge and as PhatGirlDynomite!!! has discovered through research, doesn't affect people's clientele to the point of it being a significant impact on their profits.
I've been on Chaturbate and seen a chick who hits a heft nightly goal every time I see her on came actually uses the n word and refers to her high tippers as her "n words".
Now, mind you, she's white.
Albeit, she gets called a w*gger and told to cut the bullshit, she still makes money. She's also a BBW.
I've been camming fairly frequently now and I play nothing but "harcore gangsta rap" and I make, for me, very good money.
I might get called some terrible things and get a little (sometimes extreme) race-based harassment by people I silence and ban from my rooms, but it doesn't stop me from making money.
I do think, however, if I put on some Carrie Underwood, I could "connect" with a different base of customers who won't come to some stereotypical conclusions about me.
BUT.... I don't feel the need to cater to anyone who comes to racial/musical elitist assumptions over something like what I decide to play in my room.

brownsugardoll
09-27-2014, 11:03 PM
In an attempt to continue the goodness of the discussion, I want to post something that can benefit everyone. Pornhub just updated the stats for their site. Most searched terms based on location. The busiest/horniest times of year for porn watchers etc etc. All of this was done based upon US demographics. Sorry girls located elsewhere :( Pornhub's traffic is made up mostly of Americans by 40%.

The update is here:
http://www.pornhub.com/insights/the-united-states-duration-nation/ This is important I feel and can help decide where to place your marketing dollars.

The list of most searched keywords for the site here:
http://www.pornhub.com/insights/what-do-people-in-the-us-search-for-in-pornhub-and-how-long-they-last-in-each-visit/
http://www.pornhub.com/insights/top-search-terms-usa-cities/

I have questions about this because Latina and White aren't anywhere on any of these list? So I wonder if that means that porn watchers only think in terms of color when regarding people who can't pass for white?

This would be great if one can be done for all the camsites and include world wide most searched keywords.

brownsugardoll
09-27-2014, 11:20 PM
I find when I start playing rap music or heavy hip hop music it kinda puts guys off in my room. Especially the guys you want in your room.
Rap and hip hop is more popular with the younger generation (generally teens to 30s) anyone over that tends to not like it that much. Ideally we don't want the really young 18 year old's hanging out in our room, we want the mature respectable guys who are possibly on a higher income and who will spend rather than freeload.
(Not saying all young guys are freeloaders but it can attract immaturity within the room)


and this is exactly reason why I don't play rap and hip hop music while camming. I don't even play any music at all never get any requests to play it. A bit distracting listening to music while doing camshow especially if cam2cam when the guy is speaking.

luvnrockets
09-28-2014, 02:08 AM
^^ I suppose it's time to invest in an ejaculating dildo.

luvnrockets
09-28-2014, 02:12 AM
Last time I played rap in my room (Geto Boys, I think), someone said he didn't like it, wished I was playing bluegrass or country.

...So I said ok, and put on The Gourds' kickass version of Gin and Juice. :P

Melonie
09-28-2014, 03:25 AM
To tell you the truth, I didn't even know there was a research book on the income of black strippers in comparison to their white counterparts until the topic got me curious and looked it up.


The list of most searched keywords for the site here:




This would be great if one can be done for all the camsites and include world wide most searched keywords.


-- there are men who aren't necessarily racist (racist meaning someone who thinks one race is superior to another), but will choose their cam girl based on her race. Strictly something sexual.


^^^ It would appear that we're deep enough into this discussion to logically consider a couple of apparent points raised by the Pornhub customer search stats, with some apparent corroboration from anecdotal stripper earnings stats.

- The Pornhub search stats showing a high degree of correlation to customer demographics of particular states tends to support the earlier assertion that asian customers do have an affinity for asian camgirls, that black customers do have a affinity for black camgirls etc.

- camgirl earnings and 'rankings', as well as stripper earnings, however, aren't based on search results ... but on paying customers.

- this raises the question of a possible direct linkage between the relative financial success of black, asian, white etc. camgirls, and the relative available 'discretionary' spending dollars of black, asian, white etc. webcam customers.

It is a well publicized fact that asian US residents have the highest per-capita income levels, followed by white US residents, in turn followed by black US residents.

GlamourRouge
09-28-2014, 03:56 AM
^^^ It would appear that we're deep enough into this discussion to logically consider a couple of apparent points raised by the Pornhub customer search stats, with some apparent corroboration from anecdotal stripper earnings stats.

- The Pornhub search stats showing a high degree of correlation to customer demographics of particular states tends to support the earlier assertion that asian customers do have an affinity for asian camgirls, that black customers do have a affinity for black camgirls etc.

- camgirl earnings and 'rankings', as well as stripper earnings, however, aren't based on search results ... but on paying customers.

- this raises the question of a possible direct linkage between the relative financial success of black, asian, white etc. camgirls, and the relative available 'discretionary' spending dollars of black, asian, white etc. webcam customers.

It is a well publicized fact that asian US residents have the highest per-capita income levels, followed by white US residents, in turn followed by black US residents.

I definitely agree. That whole study is very misleading and not designed properly. It doesn't account for all areas (Miami? Atlanta? obviously not). It doesn't account for all types of clubs (urban clubs?? dives??). I could list like 10 major flaws I see that make it invalid in my eyes. I actually used to work in a research lab where I was taught how to spot these kinds of flaws, so that's why I'm hypercritical with "studies" and "data" like this. Design flaws make the "results" or "data" automatically invalid.

You can control your niche in camming. You control your branding, image, and your target market. Anyone can succeed with the right niche and branding, even if you only "brand" yourself in your cam room. You can control yourself with lights, filters, makeup, contouring, angles, and all sorts of things you cannot do in a strip club. This is why I am very successful on cam where my hourly remains high, but in a strip club I am very mediocre unless we're talking about my "home" club, which was a niche alt/pinup one where my shape & look were preferred. That in itself is proof enough for me.

With stripping, you cannot. Its all about your area's demographic and who the customer spending the money is, like Melonie mentioned above. If this study was done at an upscale gentleman's club (which I'm guessing it was), the girls making the money there are the underweight girls. And that is regardless of race. Underage-looking spinners and girls with runway model bodies. Its always been that way. Of course if you have major "enhancements" like Melonie, wayyyyy outside the norm, that likely works too. Curvy girls aren't earners in those clubs unless their BMI is still underweight despite their curves. No implications here, just stating what I've seen both as a (curvy) now retired stripper, and a million times all over SW posts.

TheBrownFox
09-28-2014, 07:13 AM
A little something to lighten the mood in here...I hope?

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/163/951/M-MsRacist.gif

AliceFun
09-28-2014, 08:42 AM
^^^ The 'period' picture u got here Fox is giving me creeps, ewwww, i have imagination & sensitive stomach, u mind changing it pls? Ty!