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GlamourRouge
10-02-2014, 09:49 PM
IMO it was intentionally racist. Mammy, Blackface, and other caricatures are still present to this day people/industries just aren't as blatant with it.

Let me start by saying this: I'm not trying to be offensive here.

Okay, well even if it was intentional in that show (and no one will ever know), it came out in 1930 and 1940 depending which show you're talking about, and that was nearly 100 years ago. I personally don't understand how focusing on things so far in the past, before anyone on SW was born, has any benefit on the present or the future. Everyone is aware that things (especially film/tv and music) in certain time periods will focus on... things commonly found in that time period. Now, it does not bother me that people are focusing on things from so long ago, but it just makes me wonder how people ever plan to move past them when the people who created and enacted the rules & norms of that time period are dead by now.


I guess I feel the same way about the concept of "white privilege" and the like. So people with white skin are suppose to admit they have a privilege in having this white skin. That would mean people with dark skin literally want white people to say: "It is a privilege to have white skin, thus meaning it is a burden to have dark skin" and when we break that down it gives off the message: "white skin is good, dark skin is bad!" which FURTHER perpetuates that notion deeper into people's brains and society. I believe thats why majority of "white" people "won't admit their privilege" as some people call it. Because they don't believe this concept, as well as commonly having intersectionality that outweighs any benefits that having white skin could bring. I know that is the case for myself.

Part of me wonders if "white privilege" is a concept developed by the media and the 1% of the 1% that own everything, in order to create new wave racism. I mean, that stuff sells well in the media even today, which means $$$. Wouldn't reports about equality versus racism actually move society more in that actual direction? I feel like media is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and its obviously heavily skewed. Whenever the media claims something is a problem or issue, everyone believes it. So they easily exaggerate all the damn time, as we've seen as sexworkers.


I mean, I'm not trying to be offensive in any way. I just have my theories and love opinions on them.

GlamourRouge
10-02-2014, 09:52 PM
I posted it here as a point. People say racist shit to everyone on cam sites,we all get it. It's not us, these people are dipshits.

Yeah I've definitely had anti-semitic comments in my room before.

But then I turn it around and use it to my advantage and find that they only made those comments because they wanted Jewish domination lol, so I guess it worked out. They didn't actually mean it. In the same way that weirdos come into my room saying "you look like my sister!" or "you look like my cousin!" and its only because they wanted that as a roleplay and didn't flat out want to ask if I'd do it. I think roleplays are much healthier than actually doing it IRL. Unfortunately, just as you can't choose who you're sexually attracted to, you can't choose your sexual fantasies either.

TheBrownFox
10-02-2014, 11:20 PM
I just watched the first few seconds of that second cartoon clip with the Black guy with huge lips. Wow, um...they really did go there with the 'Uncle Tom' bit, didn't they? I used to watch Tom and Jerry back in the day too, and I don't even remember seeing shit like that. SMH...

LaPetiteVierge
10-02-2014, 11:30 PM
Let me start by saying this: I'm not trying to be offensive here.

Okay, well even if it was intentional in that show (and no one will ever know), it came out in 1930 and 1940 depending which show you're talking about, and that was nearly 100 years ago. I personally don't understand how focusing on things so far in the past, before anyone on SW was born, has any benefit on the present or the future. Everyone is aware that things (especially film/tv and music) in certain time periods will focus on... things commonly found in that time period. Now, it does not bother me that people are focusing on things from so long ago, but it just makes me wonder how people ever plan to move past them when the people who created and enacted the rules & norms of that time period are dead by now.


I guess I feel the same way about the concept of "white privilege" and the like. So people with white skin are suppose to admit they have a privilege in having this white skin. That would mean people with dark skin literally want white people to say: "It is a privilege to have white skin, thus meaning it is a burden to have dark skin" and when we break that down it gives off the message: "white skin is good, dark skin is bad!" which FURTHER perpetuates that notion deeper into people's brains and society. I believe thats why majority of "white" people "won't admit their privilege" as some people call it. Because they don't believe this concept, as well as commonly having intersectionality that outweighs any benefits that having white skin could bring. I know that is the case for myself.

Part of me wonders if "white privilege" is a concept developed by the media and the 1% of the 1% that own everything, in order to create new wave racism. I mean, that stuff sells well in the media even today, which means $$$. Wouldn't reports about equality versus racism actually move society more in that actual direction? I feel like media is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and its obviously heavily skewed. Whenever the media claims something is a problem or issue, everyone believes it. So they easily exaggerate all the damn time, as we've seen as sexworkers.


I mean, I'm not trying to be offensive in any way. I just have my theories and love opinions on them.
Uh well, scarletl posted in here about news from Tom and Jerry. People were upset that there was a racism warning for it when it's blatantly racist and racist imagery can be emotionally triggering for some people. It's not some new found "focus" on it. People do blackface TODAY. Under the guise of it being funny and entertaining or parodizing a celebrity. This isn't something that ended and has never been done again since the mid 20th century. This isn't just in "media". This is in halloween costumes, in fashion, in today's modern society with everyday people indulging in it.
A lot of people, for whatever reason, seem to feel like if people just shut up about racism, it'll magically disappear. I don't even know how you saying mammies and blackface aren't offensive railed off onto white privilege, but it's not a concept "made by the media".
You know trivializing and minimizing something into this same conspiracy theory rhetoric is pretty offensive for those of us who actually experience the reality of racism, man. You say you're not "trying to be offensive" and I understand that, but your intentions don't waive the effect your statements have. Just because something is outside your understanding, your perspective, or your experiences doesn't mean it's some fiction. It doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'd go on to give you examples and evidence of racism, but I feel like you'd have an excuse to debunk everything and quantify it to this some stuff.

If you don't find mammies and blackface offensive because you feel like it only existed in the 19xxs, okay. Congrats on feeling that way. You can feel however you want to. But don't let that be a means of you trying to nullify the presence of racism. You're biracial/multiethnic and therefore probably don't experience things in the same manner of those of us who are not. Your perspective, your experience, and your opinion are just your own and do not at all negate the reality of the rest of us.

LaPetiteVierge
10-02-2014, 11:34 PM
I just watched the first few seconds of that second cartoon clip with the Black guy with huge lips. Wow, um...they really did go there with the 'Uncle Tom' bit, didn't they? I used to watch Tom and Jerry back in the day too, and I don't even remember seeing shit like that. SMH...
I have an old VHS of MGM cartoons on it. It's not something that happened every episode, but the fact that it happened at all is crazy to me.

GlamourRouge
10-02-2014, 11:43 PM
Uh well, scarletl posted in here about news from Tom and Jerry. People were upset that there was a racism warning for it when it's blatantly racist and racist imagery can be emotionally triggering for some people. It's not some new found "focus" on it.

SW isn't letting me quote anything I don't think.

The Tom & Jerry article was posted today, all over various news outlets. Despite it having come out in 1940. That's what I was referring to.

There were A MILLION cartoons like this in that time period. They were literally all like this. And there are like no big budget things now because its not reflective of the culture. Maybe the occasional small reference in some dumb self-shot thing, but it certainly isn't blatant. But it was SUPER common back then. It was even in one of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykqzPFVLmHY



Focusing on something so old just seems... tired and pointless. Its a reflection of the history of the time period, and we can't do back in time and do history all over again.

LaPetiteVierge
10-02-2014, 11:48 PM
http://i.imgur.com/lCTyMlG.gif
http://i.imgur.com/hYO3Zzh.gif
http://i.imgur.com/P88Eeru.gif
http://i.imgur.com/hl2WThk.gif
http://i.imgur.com/9UoYP4i.gif
http://i.imgur.com/rjZa9Qv.gif
I don't feel like typing his name, but this was a skit meant to be a "joke" by a Youtube celebrity who banked tens of thousands of dollars off of.
This isn't from 1930-something.
Nor 1940-something.
Nor 1950-something.
This is from 2012.
This is "comedy" in the 21st century. This is "comedy" in the 2010s.
This had millions of views. Literally millions. More likes than dislikes. Significantly more.

As YouTuber Chescaleigh (http://www.youtube.com/user/chescaleigh) put it:
http://i.imgur.com/JFcwABC.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/NokWR4V.gif
http://i.imgur.com/RhYEh1C.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/rCXZptS.gif


Edited to add: It's impossible for me to remove this attached gif so forgive that.

GlamourRouge
10-02-2014, 11:52 PM
^^^ Again, that is not a big budget picture. That is some random guy with a webcam who records controversial things to put on youtube, ON PURPOSE, because he knows people will find it offensive and show it to their friends thus rapidly increasing his views. That is his marketing plan. He wanted views and didn't give a fuck. Views are cash for his pocket, as he is literally paid by youtube for each view. I was talking about mainstream, big budget things, not random self-shot youtube videos.

loveshooks
10-02-2014, 11:53 PM
I guess I feel the same way about the concept of "white privilege" and the like. So people with white skin are suppose to admit they have a privilege in having this white skin. That would mean people with dark skin literally want white people to say: "It is a privilege to have white skin, thus meaning it is a burden to have dark skin" and when we break that down it gives off the message: "white skin is good, dark skin is bad!" which FURTHER perpetuates that notion deeper into people's brains and society. I believe thats why majority of "white" people "won't admit their privilege" as some people call it.

Because they don't believe this concept, as well as commonly having intersectionality that outweighs any benefits that having white skin could bring. I know that is the case for myself.

Part of me wonders if "white privilege" is a concept developed by the media and the 1% of the 1% that own everything, in order to create new wave racism. I mean, that stuff sells well in the media even today, which means $$$. Wouldn't reports about equality versus racism actually move society more in that actual direction? I feel like media is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and its obviously heavily skewed. Whenever the media claims something is a problem or issue, everyone believes it. So they easily exaggerate all the damn time, as we've seen as sexworkers.


I mean, I'm not trying to be offensive in any way. I just have my theories and love opinions on them.

I think most light-skinned peeps don't acknowledge their privilege because they often don't even realize it exists. that's the beauty of systemic racism, I mean, we can all look at the n-word and acknowledge the racist foundation of that term and what it signifies, but systemic racism is much more subtle that that. Privilege is positioned as neutrality and the only ones who see/feel the inequality are the peeps who are negatively impacted by the systemic racism built into our economic, social, legal and political structures. The over-policing of racialized bodies (and not just in so-called 'bad neighborhoods' either) is a perfect example of this. is a wicked reference for those who might be interested.

Regarding intersectionality, absolutely we're all privileged and disadvantaged in different ways, but the point is that there are some issues that racialized peeps deal with regardless of gender, sexuality, class, ability, citizenship, etc, etc, etc, etc. For example, being poor and white or poor and Black both suck, but guess who's more likely to get harassed by the cops or killed by them?

As to naming light-skinned privilege causing inequality, how exactly does naming something perpetuate it? Let's not talk about environmental issues either-maybe then the ice caps will stop melting? For real, you need to watch Blue Eyed. It's geared towards peeps with white-skin privilege and demonstrates the massive tangible and psychological consequences that arise from social race-based inequality, consequences we don't experience because we don't live them. Having white skin isn't the problem, having dark skin isn't the problem. Being treated unequally based on social race; that's the problem.

LaPetiteVierge
10-02-2014, 11:54 PM
SW isn't letting me quote anything I don't think.

The Tom & Jerry article was posted today, all over various news outlets. Despite it having come out in 1940. That's what I was referring to. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/02/is-tom-and-jerry-really-racist.html http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/10/02/amazon-tom-and-jerry-ethnic-racial-prejudice/16588921/

There were A MILLION cartoons like this in that time period. They were literally all like this. And there are like no big budget things now because its not reflective of the culture. Maybe the occasional small reference in some dumb self-shot thing, but it certainly isn't blatant. But it was SUPER common back then. It was even in one of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykqzPFVLmHY



Focusing on something so old just seems... tired and pointless. Its a reflection of the history of the time period, and we can't do back in time and do history all over again.

" Amazon has recently added “Tom and Jerry” to its video streaming service, they made sure to include a racism disclaimer: a warning that “Tom and Jerry” contains “some ethnic and racial prejudices that were once commonplace in American society.”"
"British cultural commentator and sociology professor Frank Furedi declared Amazon’s warning “empty-headed” and excoriated a kind of “false piousness” and culture of censorship that “seems to be sweeping cultural life.”"
That's why it's being talked about. It's not for absolutely no reason.

You're saying "despite it having come out in the 40s".
I'm saying people are mad because it's accessible on the internet and the platform it's made available on provided a disclaimer for racism and that's what we're talking about.
We're talking about people are mad at Amazon for letting it be known that racist shit is racist.
E.g. "People were upset that there was a racism warning for it when it's blatantly racist and racist imagery can be emotionally triggering for some people."

LaPetiteVierge
10-02-2014, 11:56 PM
I think most light-skinned peeps don't acknowledge their privilege because they often don't even realize it exists. that's the beauty of systemic racism, I mean, we can all look at the n-word and acknowledge the racist foundation of that term and what it signifies, but systemic racism is much more subtle that that. Privilege is positioned as neutrality and the only ones who see/feel the inequality are the peeps who are negatively impacted by the systemic racism built into our economic, social, legal and political structures. The over-policing of racialized bodies (and not just in so-called 'bad neighborhoods' either) is a perfect example of this. Race, Space and the Law (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/25149356?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21104265773371) is a wicked reference for those who might be interested.

Regarding internationality, absolutely we're all privileged and disadvantaged in different ways, but the point is that there are some issues that racialized peeps deal with regardless of gender, sexuality, class, ability, citizenship, etc, etc, etc, etc. For example, being poor and white or poor and Black both suck, but guess who's more likely to get harassed by the cops or killed by them?

As to naming light-skinned privilege causing inequality, how exactly does naming something perpetuate it? Let's not talk about environmental issues either-maybe then the ice caps will stop melting? For real, you need to watch Blue Eyed. It's geared towards peeps with white-skin privilege and demonstrates the massive tangible and psychological consequences that arise from social race-based inequality, consequences we don't experience because we don't live them. Having white skin isn't the problem, having dark skin isn't the problem. Being treated unequally based on social race; that's the problem.

Please start ghost writing my posts.

GlamourRouge
10-03-2014, 12:03 AM
You're saying "despite it having come out in the 40s".
I'm saying people are mad because it's accessible on the internet and the platform it's made available on provided a disclaimer for racism and that's what we're talking about.
We're talking about people are mad at Amazon for letting it be known that racist shit is racist.
E.g. "People were upset that there was a racism warning for it when it's blatantly racist and racist imagery can be emotionally triggering for some people."

That is the second article. I'm talking about the ones like the first link I posted, entitled something like "Was Tom & Jerry really racist?" and all the other dozens of articles that came out on this and looney tunes and whatever else. Where it goes down and breaks down everything racist. However, that was in like every cartoon that came out in that time period. But I'm not going to sit here and argue this lol. Just needed to clarify.

LaPetiteVierge
10-03-2014, 12:26 AM
That is the second article. I'm talking about the ones like the first link I posted, entitled something like "Was Tom & Jerry really racist?" and all the other dozens of articles that came out on this and looney tunes and whatever else. Where it goes down and breaks down everything racist. However, that was in like every cartoon that came out in that time period. But I'm not going to sit here and argue this lol. Just needed to clarify.
It's ludicrous for people to be upset at a disclaimer for blatant racism as if it's unfounded. You're saying it was in every cartoon back then as if that detracts from it being racist or takes away from racism being emotionally triggering for people. Its prominence in the time period it came from doesn't make it less offensive. Same way the term Redskins used for an NFL team is offensive towards Native Americans today despite it having been founded in that same mid-20th century time period. There's no statue of limitations on when to be offended by these things.
You have the right and choice to stop discussing this and that's fine. I'll respect that and not say anything beyond the above.

moxybrown
10-03-2014, 08:02 PM
Belated but wanted to add my two cents as I've been camming on SM, MFC, CB and KinkLive over the past two months or so.

As a black American, I was aware from the jump-start that my experience was going to be different than white camgirls or even other minorities. Partly because of my Sociology background and also because before I started to web cam, I watched a lot of shows.

I will say that it has gone better than I expected. There have been racial/racist comments (e.g.: calling me Crazy Eyes) but nothing that I couldn't handle by blocking/banning/etc.

In day to day life, I'd be considered to have a medium complexion. I wear my hair naturally curly. I have freckles (like Morgan Freeman!). One of the odd compliments that I constantly get is being asked what I'm mixed with. Such a question seems to imply that my attractiveness is based on me appearing not to be fully black.

I play a large variety of music in my room, depending on my mood. I get black guys who are surprised when I'm not playing Rap/R&B. I get white guys that constantly want me to twerk. I get a fair amount of racial play/humiliation requests.

Since, I'm a relative newb and camming is my third job, my success has been fairly limited. Thanks to various social media, I know there are successful black camgirls out there. But I also know they worked their ass off to get there. For those that are successful, it still tends to be a fraction of mainstream success. Just looking at Streamate, CB and MFC make that abundantly clear.

I'm glad this thread was created though. Thank you!

Sunnylexie
10-03-2014, 08:34 PM
From what I can get so far, being Asian/with Asian background is the worst for camming, at least for the American audience: black is mostly associated with black Americans, while Asian for some reason means you are from a IIIrd world country, speak no English and work for peanuts (like some douche said after I told I woldn't do a GS at half the goal: "The $30 buys a month's supply of rice for your whole village").:-X

LizzyBlare
10-04-2014, 09:35 AM
Yes. Yes it does.

All of our lives, for many centuries, it's been force fed to us that "white is beautiful" and that "European" facial features are the most beautiful and pure on a woman. From our media to our peers, we're constantly being socialized to believe this. Many of us don't even consciously realize it. And some of us outright deny it because we like to think our success may be purely based on other variables besides privilege.

Take two cam girls, exactly same physical features, physique, personality, clothing, marketing, etc. One is white, one is black. If you're going to tell me that the black one will be just as successful as the white one, please take off your proverbial blinders because it's this denial that is keeping systemic racism fueled.

GlamourRouge
10-04-2014, 10:34 AM
It's ludicrous for people to be upset at a disclaimer for blatant racism as if it's unfounded.

Like I said a few posts back, people can feel however they want to feel about anything, and it doesn't affect me at all. They can feel however they want lol. Why would I care or be mad that people are upset? I'm neutral. And I don't spend my time focusing on other people's opinions of things, only my own. You can't please everyone lol and I am aware of that.




All of our lives, for many centuries, it's been force fed to us that "white is beautiful" and that "European" facial features are the most beautiful and pure on a woman. From our media to our peers, we're constantly being socialized to believe this. Many of us don't even consciously realize it. And some of us outright deny it because we like to think our success may be purely based on other variables besides privilege.

I mean, isn't that basically calling the average person dumb? Like once you become aware of these concepts, aren't you able to look past the "white blinding" or whatever? Like wouldn't you be like "the media has taught me to like white things, but now I'm going to make my own decision on what I find attractive." Because thats basically saying that humans aren't capable to use their brains and the media will always win.


Idk, I just find it really offensive to call it "white" stuff. Like how my skin tone determines that I'm "white" despite being latina, which isn't recognized as white?? And how middle easterns are white and still face heavy discrimination. Jewish too. I like how its okay to say that black people face adversity and discrimination but its so easy to dismiss this about Jewish and middle eastern people, especially by people who are not Jewish or middle eastern who have never lived a day in the life of looking Jewish or middle eastern. And they're white. And for the record, if this is about skin tone, I'm pretty sure 95% of the "white" girls I know are actually obsessed with having tan skin and go tanning or self-tan.

A lot of the "white" beauty concepts people keep talking about actually originated or were at least heavily documented in Egypt circa the Cleopatra years. Not only was Cleopatra not white (she was African/Arab), she did not have white skin either. Yet she was extreeeeeeemely "westernized" as we call it now. She did her makeup using makeshift natural ingredients to look "westernized" before that was even a thing.

This whole thing could be avoided if they called it "westernized privilege" and not "white privilege" because when it comes down to it, its not about being white. Its about being westernized. So I can't co-sign on this til its changed to not be offensive and misleading like it currently is. But the media obviously did this on purpose to make us fight against each other (the working class) and ignore the 1% of the 1% who are actually the enemies. There are plenty of of non-white people that are westernized and benefit from that. There are plenty of people that have several non-westernized attributes (foreign name, accent, etc etc) that do NOT benefit from them despite still being white. And the fact of the matter is, ANYONE can westernize themselves despite their original race. And many white people don't even look westernized so lol.

And that's really all I have to say about this. I mean, I made it to graduate level in psych so its not like I'm not unfamiliar with all the sociology concepts, but its just different in psychology as it focuses more on evolutionary factors and the biological underpinnings versus ulterior motive, for-profit, artificially-constructed media viewpoints. And to me, that viewpoint what makes more sense. So we're going to have to agree to disagree.

justanothercamgirl
10-04-2014, 03:02 PM
And that's really all I have to say about this. I mean, I made it to graduate level in psych so its not like I'm not unfamiliar with all the sociology concepts, but its just different in psychology as it focuses more on evolutionary factors and the biological underpinnings versus ulterior motive, for-profit, artificially-constructed media viewpoints. And to me, that viewpoint what makes more sense. So we're going to have to agree to disagree.

I don't mean to side track the argument but psychology does has its own past history of use to discrimination too. Homosexuality used to be classified as a mental illness in the DSM even though there was no empirical evidence to support it.

TheBrownFox
10-04-2014, 04:16 PM
From what I can get so far, being Asian/with Asian background is the worst for camming, at least for the American audience: black is mostly associated with black Americans, while Asian for some reason means you are from a IIIrd world country, speak no English and work for peanuts (like some douche said after I told I woldn't do a GS at half the goal: "The $30 buys a month's supply of rice for your whole village").:-X
Wow, that's fucked up, but I see what you mean. There's a former MFC model who, right before banning an annoying member, she'd say something along the lines like "Bye! You can go to the Asian Homepage!" The Asian Homepage used to have a bad rep on MFC, and they eventually even got rid of it.

justanothercamgirl
10-04-2014, 05:10 PM
Found this by total accident while surfing something else.
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-1.jpg
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-2.jpg
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-3.jpg
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-4.jpg
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-5.jpg
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-6.jpg
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-7.jpg
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-8.jpg
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-9.jpg
http://everydayfeminism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/white-privilege-10.jpg

scarletl
10-04-2014, 05:33 PM
I have no words. Well I do but saying them will just open another can of worms.

justanothercamgirl
10-04-2014, 05:53 PM
I have no words. Well I do but saying them will just open another can of worms.

I don't mind if you open another can of worms. This is a respectful conversation/debate after all.

I was actually reading an article today about 'thin privilege' when I found the above comic (http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/10/lets-talk-about-thin-privilege/) and I found that it helped me to understand this issue more by looking at another types of social privilege. The article helped me understand about how personal emotional impacts are not the same as oppression. Personal grievances are very truly important and there is no discounting that but oppression is its own special kind of problem.

I could be completely wrong though.....I have just been learning as I go along by listening to everyone's opinions in this debate and I am more then willing to listen to yours. :)

reversecowgirl
10-04-2014, 05:58 PM
I am white, and was born and raised in Texas. My grandfathers used the N word. They and even my husband now, watched and watches those stupid old westerns where racism was blatant and "humorous". It's not funny to me. I bitch at my husband left and right, and I get onto him or neighbors or any other man I hear use that word. I hate it. And in my camming so far, I have felt much guilt when a black man took me private but asked first if I minded if he was black, before he turned his cam on. That shocked the fuck out of me, and broke my heart every time, and it happened often. I won't do race play, even if they beg me, I just can't do it, I can't say the N word and sleep at night with a restful soul. I just can't. I've had to say no over and over. Sorry if this is sortof off topic, but it bothers me to my core, and there's never really been a place where I could speak about it in this way. I don't see color. I never have. Human is human, doesn't fucking matter to me what color anyone is or what country they're from. Souls are souls.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
10-04-2014, 05:58 PM
I was born in 1980. I grew up in Miami,Florida. These EXACT clips were apart of my upbringing waay back then. That means as a child I saw them on the cartoon network. I remember watching them focus on the mamies feet....her slippers and her shuffling about. And then her giving that Mamie speech "No Tom you know you aint s'posed to be runnin round the house like that" I remember it. And they would play a tribal drum to the way she walked and sometimes you would see her butt bouncing around to the music. But you never saw her face. The black women in the cartoons didn't seem to have a full on identity. Anyways, I had forgotten about that until now. Those cartoons are old and were created long ago but they played them over and over for decades.




It does have racist things in it.
You're from the UK and don't seem very in the know about racism in the US, so I don't expect you to be aware of what mammies are and what blackface is, but those two elements are rampant in Tom And Jerry.
There are several instances of racism in cartoons from that time period. That was during the span of time in which segregation was in America as well as when minstrel shows were still happening.
It's not exactly news and it's not claims more than it is evidenced fact.
Here's the mammy from Tom and Jerry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W8WmsrVRtE
Here's a compilation of old racist cartoons from the 40s/50s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH4ivOyO0PQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammy_archetype

scarletl
10-04-2014, 06:18 PM
I don't mind if you open another can of worms. This is a respectful conversation/debate after all.

I was actually reading an article today about 'thin privilege' when I found the above comic (http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/10/lets-talk-about-thin-privilege/) and I found that it helped me to understand this issue more by looking at another types of social privilege. The article helped me understand about how personal emotional impacts are not the same as oppression. Personal grievances are very truly important and there is no discounting that but oppression is its own special kind of problem.

I could be completely wrong though.....I have just been learning as I go along by listening to everyone's opinions in this debate and I am more then willing to listen to yours. :)

I think it's pretty clear that I have been quite unaware of this white privileged thing. Up till this thread I have honestly never heard of it and never thought that white people had more privilege over black people in this day and age. As a white person I have never felt that I have more privilege than a black person or any person of colour and I haven't witnessed it for my own eyes.
The thing about the info graphic post that got me thinking the most was when it come to the prison and criminal statistics. I believe that despite your colour, if you commit a crime then you both do the time and the same amount of time. I am aware that there probably is more black people in prison than white people but that has nothing to do with their skin colour, that person is in prison for a reason, for their own stupid actions and breaking the law.
Committing a crime has several reasons behind it that include your up-bringing, your location and the people you hang around with, a stupid decision and a path in life you take. It can't simply be a case of "I sell drugs for a living and I got caught and now I'm facing 8 years prison sentence because I'm back and they want to target me" if any white person did the same, they would be in prison too.

I also don't understand the need for white people to open their eyes and realize that we have this "White Privilege" because our skin colour is white.
Because to me that sounds arrogant for someone to notice or believe they are better than any other person?
I think that a point of view like this would only cause some kind of hatred towards white people.
Let's think of it this way a person of colour thinks "I have to work harder than that white girl to earn the same amount of money, I can't get into my chosen university because I am black and if I was white then it would be much easier, I had a job interview and so did that white girl and she will get the job because she is white"

This kind of thinking will cause hatred towards white people because if I was black and I took this white privilege thought process on then I would hate white people. I would be angry.

If there is a job interview and there is one white girl and one black girl taking the interview and say the white girl gets the job. Without a doubt the black girl would automatically assume she didn't get the job because she is black and they prefer the white girl, she has that white girl privilege. When 99% of the time you find it's down to lack of skill, personality or whatever. If the white girl didn't get the job and the black girl did, she wouldn't think "Oh I got this job because I'm black" she would know she got the job because she had the right skills and a good personality, the white girl then wouldn't go on to think "She got the job because she was black and I'm white and they obviously wasn't looking for a white person"

JaneBurgess
10-04-2014, 06:46 PM
Really the media? Then we should all be 6 feet tall and weigh 110 pounds. Thats what the magazines show so that must be what is beautiful. Please. Everyone has a chance to be successful, you have to have the drive and intelligence. Most of the wealthiest people in the world were born dirt poor. They could have believed they would never succeed but they didn't. They worked their asses off and made a better life for themselves.

Anyone from any race can do well, nothing is stopping you but yourself.


Yes. Yes it does.

All of our lives, for many centuries, it's been force fed to us that "white is beautiful" and that "European" facial features are the most beautiful and pure on a woman. From our media to our peers, we're constantly being socialized to believe this. Many of us don't even consciously realize it. And some of us outright deny it because we like to think our success may be purely based on other variables besides privilege.

Take two cam girls, exactly same physical features, physique, personality, clothing, marketing, etc. One is white, one is black. If you're going to tell me that the black one will be just as successful as the white one, please take off your proverbial blinders because it's this denial that is keeping systemic racism fueled.

scarletl
10-04-2014, 06:56 PM
Really the media? Then we should all be 6 feet tall and weigh 110 pounds. Thats what the magazines show so that must be what is beautiful. Please. Everyone has a chance to be successful, you have to have the drive and intelligence. Most of the wealthiest people in the world were born dirt poor. They could have believed they would never succeed but they didn't. They worked their asses off and made a better life for themselves.

Anyone from any race can do well, nothing is stopping you but yourself.

My words exactly! Infact I can clearly see there are plenty girls of colour in the cam world who are 10 times more successful than me.

GlamourRouge
10-04-2014, 09:07 PM
Regarding JAC's giant pictures on the previous page...

1.) You can decline to state your race when you apply. No one can tell what you are when you apply. In fact, many places have gotten rid of the race or ethnicity question.
2.) More "white" people have bachelor degrees because its a cultural thing. I grew up in the projects and none of the black people I grew up with (I keep tabs on them on FB and "through the grapevine") went and got a college degree. They felt like they were already discriminated against before they even tried. We had the same opportunities. And a bachelors degree doesn't mean shit anymore. And anyone can take out a loan or put effort and get one.
3.) Wouldn't there be more black prisoners than white because more black people are in poverty when compared to white? Poverty and crime are the link. Not skin color or race. Black people used to be slaves so they haven't had as much time to build wealth, or enough generations to get out of poverty. But that is the past and it has changed SO MUCH already, and is still changing.
4.) Getting a job... better networking due to more connections of people in higher places? Due to #3?
5.) The media focuses on interracial homicides more because that's what the public wants to hear. The general public likes to be fed lies of stereotypes. Hell, we even know this as sexworkers! They do this to sexworkers ALL THE TIME!

ThatMara
10-05-2014, 11:35 AM
The thing about the info graphic post that got me thinking the most was when it come to the prison and criminal statistics. I believe that despite your colour, if you commit a crime then you both do the time and the same amount of time. I am aware that there probably is more black people in prison than white people but that has nothing to do with their skin colour, that person is in prison for a reason, for their own stupid actions and breaking the law.
Committing a crime has several reasons behind it that include your up-bringing, your location and the people you hang around with, a stupid decision and a path in life you take. It can't simply be a case of "I sell drugs for a living and I got caught and now I'm facing 8 years prison sentence because I'm back and they want to target me" if any white person did the same, they would be in prison too.

The bolded is what should be happening, but isn't. The National Criminal Justice Reference Service looked at 85 studies of sentencing outcomes and found that "after taking into account defendant criminal history and current offense seriousness, African-Americans and Latinos were generally sentenced more harshly than whites" (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/208129.pdf). On top of that, black males also have the highest rate of convictions (black people make up 12-13% of the US population, but black males make up almost 40% of current prisoners [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_of_incarcerated_African-American_males]) and the highest known rate of false convictions in the country. Examples include the 1984 cases of Darryl Hunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darryl_Hunt) and Ronald Cotton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistaken_identity#Ronald_Cotton http://www.law.northwestern.edu/legalclinic/wrongfulconvictions/exonerations/nc/ronald-cotton.html) in North Carolina, the 1992 case of Mckinley Cromedy (http://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/supreme-court/1999/a-166-97-opn.html) in New Jersey, and the 1985 case of Timothy Cole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Cole) in Texas. All young black males falsely convicted of sexual assault against a white victim. There are still more examples, like Jonathan Fleming who spent 24 (almost 25) years in prison for a NYC murder, even though receipts and surveillance video footage proved that he was on a family vacation in Florida, or Rodell Sanders who spent 21 years in prison after being identified through a doctored photo in a line up.

Here's a look at the Rate of Incarceration per 100,000 population in each state broken down by race: http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0008.htm (go to table 13)

Ideally, if you commit a crime, no matter your race you'd have the same chances at trial and if convicted get the same sentance as anyone else who committed a similar crime, but that really isn't the case.

GlamourRouge
10-05-2014, 12:30 PM
African-Americans and Latinos were generally sentenced more harshly than whites

Ideally, if you commit a crime, no matter your race you'd have the same chances at trial and if convicted get the same sentance as anyone else who committed a similar crime, but that really isn't the case.

But isn't that because black people and latino people are more likely to come from poverty or lower social class than white people, thus having less money than white people? [That's what the stats out tell us right now, but it will take a few more generations til its pretty equal with the current deterioration of the middle class through debt.] I say this as a half latino person that did grow up in poverty.

So wouldn't white people be less harshly sentenced because they have more money and more connections which is VITAL when hiring a good defense attorney?

$$$$ = a good lawyer = a less harsh sentence. I really don't think it has to do with being white, or very very very rarely.




They could have believed they would never succeed but they didn't. They worked their asses off and made a better life for themselves.

Anyone from any race can do well, nothing is stopping you but yourself.

I really think this is the key to any form of success.

I mean, think about it. We are literally trained for 13 (K+12) mandatory years to "learn" things through being told "facts" and then repeating them back on a test. If that's not brainwashing, I don't know what is.

Not only that, but we are taught:
a.) we need to work for SOMEONE ELSE (that will never make you rich lol)
b.) to believe the media lies that further push racial hostility and secret agendas like consumerism
c.) lies IN GENERAL like how Christopher Columbus "discovered" America lololol. its all lies.
d.) not how to save, fix things, or invest, which would actually be VERY USEFUL


We are DESIGNED to be minions and fail, and if you want to succeed, you have to be smarter and know to go AGAINST all of what you're taught. And that starts with not believing any race is inferior, superior, or has "special benefits" in life. It doesn't work that way. And to clarify, I definitely do believe in "attractive person" privilege, but that can be true for any race, and it can also be a disadvantage in many instances but sexwork is not one of them.

ThatMara
10-05-2014, 01:34 PM
But isn't that because black people and latino people are more likely to come from poverty or lower social class than white people, thus having less money than white people? [That's what the stats out tell us right now, but it will take a few more generations til its pretty equal with the current deterioration of the middle class through debt.] I say this as a half latino person that did grow up in poverty.

So wouldn't white people be less harshly sentenced because they have more money and more connections which is VITAL when hiring a good defense attorney?

$$$$ = a good lawyer = a less harsh sentence. I really don't think it has to do with being white, or very very very rarely.

I do agree that socio-economic status is a part of it, but these trends still hold true when comparing only poor whites with only equally poor minorities. Poor white males are more likely to be offered pleas and usually receive lesser sentences than their minority counterparts - especially if the victim of their crime is a minority. We actually see a pretty universal trend in that respect - crimes with victims who present as "white" almost always have harsher sentences than equal crimes with minority victims, with the one exception being cases designated as "hate crimes" (presumably due to the fact that hate crime statues tend to add the "hate crime" designation as an additional charge and possibly also due to more media coverage and thus more public outcry)

kortneykay
10-05-2014, 01:44 PM
I've tried to avoid this particular thread because I tend to shy away from things that cause conflict. The truth of the matter is, racism in camming and everywhere else, still exists.

Both my parents were upper middle class black families who though dealt with segregation in their own right, but still had "privilege". My mother's side was very multicultural with strong African, Native American, and Caucasian lineage. Because they were of lighter skin, they were treated a bit higher than low income families with dark skin tones. I remember stories of my great grandmother who was biracial (white father, black/native mother) telling my mother to never marry a dark skinned person because (even though she was black) she thought marrying "up" they called it; would keep her family from being treated even worse. To this day, when I go visit my mother's side her words are still very prevalent as my cousins are all "passable" with light eyes, straight blonde hair and very light skin. When they compliment it's "I see you have good hair like your mother, etc." Many black families in that time thought that way because the worst thing in the world to them was to be black. At the end of the day, unless you could "pass" white people didn't give a fuck. This is where the one drop rule came into play and those who could "pass" did.

My experience as an individual and a cammodel are pretty much the same. I believe that because my skin is lighter and I wear colored contacts I get "what are you?" "are you mixed?" which tends to insinuate that the lack of full "blackness" is the reason I'm attractive. I'm still BLACK! My natural hair is light sandy brown and curly and I still get those questions. "Wow, you're really pretty, are you mixed?". I've never had a guy come in and say the "N" word or call me derogatory names but they do occasionally ask for race play and put me in a box.

I'll admit that I've been guilty of milking my blackness, and every other ethnicity for profit. My thinking in this industry is always "what can I do to make money? what can I say to get these men to spend?". Since racism is still very present, I use that to my advantage. The reason is because most men fetishize everything but at the end of the day it's still racism dressed up as a fetish. If you still think racism doesn't exist in this industry; try playing phone sex characters!

A few examples are:
Ebony Mistress- Lots of white guys come into a black models room and assume that she is dominant and lives to make the white male submissive her bitch
Black Sex Slave- Dominant white males get off on slavery and the thought of a black willing slave. The day I put up a NF listing with the world N*gger bitch in the title; I made $400 that day in back to back shows.
BBC- Cuckolds galore enjoy the shock of a black male fucking a white girl. I even get them after me as well as a black model and they fetishize the fuck out of BBC
Asian Teen- Submissive Mai Ling. Callers have talked about sweat shops, opium dens, and sex trafficking.
Hispanic- She's been called a beaner, boarder hopper, chula, etc. The list goes on!
Caucasian Age Play Teen/Lolita 99.9%-100% of these callers are Caucasian men who have a pedo fantasy. I make MOST of my money off of these callers.


The few sprinkles of women of color on the first page (me included) vs. the non women of color on the first page lets you know that racism still exists in adult work. Also, I've done plenty of "tests" myself. I own about 300 phone sex characters with only 5 of them being women of color. Most of the calls I do are age play and bratty findom characters. I make more playing a Caucasian character than I do from my non Caucasian characters. No, it's not because I have 200+ vs. 5, it's because the world has been brainwashed that the most beautiful and socially accepted women aren't women of color, they are white women. Turn on your TV and watch the shows on now and commercials and it will 99.9% showcase white actors or a white female model. Every once in a while you might see a product for women of color or a token black person. Now, search for a show featuring blacks, Asians, or Hispanics and you'll have to go to "their" channel. Telemundo, or BET.

I have worked on a texting platform for 3 years. For the first year I brought a cute, Caucasian character and had back 2 back texts the whole year. The 2nd and 3rd year I came back as myself. 80% of the texts/vid requests,etc I get are domination or bbw/ebony fetishes. Even though I had my highest earning week, my texts dropped down to 50% and instead of 9 guys lined up to texts, I have about 2-3. Also, this week there's a funky technical issue going on where I'm getting guys texting me looking for a blonde girl.

I forgot to log off and when I got back home to my surprise there were 9 texts waiting to be answered. I found out after sending some photos that they were looking for this blonde girl. This continued the whole night, not to mention is still happening. I just got out of a paid text and the guy again thought I was her. It kind of stings knowing that other girls on the site are getting most of the customers because they are "typical beauties" let alone fake characters that the owner brought to the site.

I suggest watching these two videos for those of you still in complete disbelief. At the end of the day the poll never lies. 65 votes vs 8 proves that it is still prevalent in this day and age. Some of you will say you aren't aware of racism but will subconsciously do it yourself. How many of you will go into panic mode if you see a black/hispanic male dressed up as a "thug" walking towards you on the sidewalk? Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I wanted to end on this note. I don't want my Caucasian sisters to feel like racism excludes them. I married a Caucasian man who grew up poor and didn't believe his "white privilege" did anything for him. I know that some whites were slaves as well (pirate raids). I know that at one time signs in shops read Irish and Italian immigrants need not apply and so on. Somewhere in history someone decided "Oh, it doesn't matter that you'e Irish, Italian, or that you're dirt poor, you LOOK like the rest of us, therefore you ARE one of us." When all is said and done with all of our histories, that seclusion based on color (something none of us have control over) is what upsets people the most. History hurts, but I believe it's the reminder everyday that you aren't Caucasian that people suffer from. To ignore that anything ever happened and still IS happening is wrong. I suggest you watch Jane Elliot's "The Angry Eye". It's a real "eye" opener. She segregates based on eye color in order for people to understand how silly it really is at the end of the day.

Time Wise is AMAZING!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN8pmhQwcnY

Also, watch "The Angry Eye" by Jane Elliot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SpF3cwJ86A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWXB1S1jHKo

LaPetiteVierge
10-05-2014, 01:55 PM
1. Statistics are based on information that can be gathered. Statistics on crime can only show what officers decided to document. So, wrongful convictions, excessive sentences (which isn't at all due solely to impoverishment), and letting specific offenders get off isn't readily available. To give an example, dozens of people have been arrested in Ferguson for protest-related penalties. If statistical data was shown for the number of arrests there, it could be said like Ferguson residents are 188% more likely to commit civil disobedience related offenses than the rest of America. So, although people of color take up a larger percentage of inmate population than white people, that's due largely to a system of corruption that quantifies non-whiteness to criminality. Not as though people of color don't commit crimes, but that the statistical data doesn't compensate for corruption and is largely inflated. I know why violence and drug abuse/distribution is rampant in the communities of people of color.
2. There's not as many job opportunities for people of color as there are white people. People would like to assume that the media is portraying an unfounded trend in job discrimination and that affirmative action is an actual thing that works and exists, but the reality of the situation is that the likelihood of you being hired rises when you're white. Even with education and training being compensated for. You know who are the most educated group in the states? Black women are. But black people as a whole have to have a college-level education to have the same chance at a job opportunity as a white high school drop out. (links upon request)
3. In animals like in humans (we're animals too, so that's a bit redundant... but still), when you are placed into a situation of impoverishment, entrapment, and oppression in some sense, you are more inclined to be prone to violence. Anyone watch Blackfish? Earthlings? Any documentary that highlights how animals that are forced into certain circumstances lash out? And not always at whoever's in charge of them, but at one another. Violence and poverty go hand in hand. As does drug abuse/distribution and poverty. You want to feel alleviated from the stress of poverty? Get high or drunk. You want to escape poverty in some sense? Sell drugs and get rich. McDonald's is a dead end job for most people, but the fast food industry is likely to have a lot of people of color as their employees. And McDonald's does not provide a livable wage at entry level. The minimum wage in America period doesn't provide a livable income, but anyway...

I want to talk about white privilege, but it's funny how every time someone gives examples and experiences about it, white people (or half white people) feel the need to discredit it. It reminds me a lot of that video that I posted and how it's easy to manipulate another person's perspective to make them look negative for speaking about a reality for them. It's funny (funny stupid, not funny ha-ha) how that goes.

LaPetiteVierge
10-05-2014, 02:04 PM
I think it's impossible for some people who are either white or white-passing/light skinned to accept the reality of white privilege. I've seen Holocaust denial-levels of disagreement and unacceptance about it existing and I'm fairly numb to the fact that people try to act like it's a conspiracy. People are more inclined to believe Big Brother is making up shit than to face the facts about it.

This isn't just directed at GlamorRogue by the way. It's directed at all white and white passing/light skinned people who don't believe white people benefit from any more advantages than people of color.

Edited: I wanted to add that a good turn of phrase for it is: You cannot see the picture when you are in the frame.

LaPetiteVierge
10-05-2014, 02:10 PM
I've tried to avoid this particular thread because I tend to shy away from things that cause conflict. The truth of the matter is, racism in camming and everywhere else, still exists.

Both my parents were upper middle class black families who though dealt with segregation in their own right, but still had "privilege". My mother's side was very multicultural with strong African, Native American, and Caucasian lineage. Because they were of lighter skin, they were treated a bit higher than low income families with dark skin tones. I remember stories of my great grandmother who was biracial (white father, black/native mother) telling my mother to never marry a dark skinned person because (even though she was black) she thought marrying "up" they called it; would keep her family from being treated even worse. To this day, when I go visit my mother's side her words are still very prevalent as my cousins are all "passable" with light eyes, straight blonde hair and very light skin. When they compliment it's "I see you have good hair like your mother, etc." Many black families in that time thought that way because the worst thing in the world to them was to be black. At the end of the day, unless you could "pass" white people didn't give a fuck. This is where the one drop rule came into play and those who could "pass" did.

My experience as an individual and a cammodel are pretty much the same. I believe that because my skin is lighter and I wear colored contacts I get "what are you?" "are you mixed?" which tends to insinuate that the lack of full "blackness" is the reason I'm attractive. I'm still BLACK! My natural hair is light sandy brown and curly and I still get those questions. "Wow, you're really pretty, are you mixed?". I've never had a guy come in and say the "N" word or call me derogatory names but they do occasionally ask for race play and put me in a box.

I'll admit that I've been guilty of milking my blackness, and every other ethnicity for profit. My thinking in this industry is always "what can I do to make money? what can I say to get these men to spend?". Since racism is still very present, I use that to my advantage. The reason is because most men fetishize everything but at the end of the day it's still racism dressed up as a fetish. If you still think racism doesn't exist in this industry; try playing phone sex characters!

A few examples are:
Ebony Mistress- Lots of white guys come into a black models room and assume that she is dominant and lives to make the white male submissive her bitch
Black Sex Slave- Dominant white males get off on slavery and the thought of a black willing slave. The day I put up a NF listing with the world N*gger bitch in the title; I made $400 that day in back to back shows.
BBC- Cuckolds galore enjoy the shock of a black male fucking a white girl. I even get them after me as well as a black model and they fetishize the fuck out of BBC
Asian Teen- Submissive Mai Ling. Callers have talked about sweat shops, opium dens, and sex trafficking.
Hispanic- She's been called a beaner, boarder hopper, chula, etc. The list goes on!
Caucasian Age Play Teen/Lolita 99.9%-100% of these callers are Caucasian men who have a pedo fantasy. I make MOST of my money off of these callers.


The few sprinkles of women of color on the first page (me included) vs. the non women of color on the first page lets you know that racism still exists in adult work. Also, I've done plenty of "tests" myself. I own about 300 phone sex characters with only 5 of them being women of color. Most of the calls I do are age play and bratty findom characters. I make more playing a Caucasian character than I do from my non Caucasian characters. No, it's not because I have 200+ vs. 5, it's because the world has been brainwashed that the most beautiful and socially accepted women aren't women of color, they are white women. Turn on your TV and watch the shows on now and commercials and it will 99.9% showcase white actors or a white female model. Every once in a while you might see a product for women of color or a token black person. Now, search for a show featuring blacks, Asians, or Hispanics and you'll have to go to "their" channel. Telemundo, or BET.

I have worked on a texting platform for 3 years. For the first year I brought a cute, Caucasian character and had back 2 back texts the whole year. The 2nd and 3rd year I came back as myself. 80% of the texts/vid requests,etc I get are domination or bbw/ebony fetishes. Even though I had my highest earning week, my texts dropped down to 50% and instead of 9 guys lined up to texts, I have about 2-3. Also, this week there's a funky technical issue going on where I'm getting guys texting me looking for a blonde girl.

I forgot to log off and when I got back home to my surprise there were 9 texts waiting to be answered. I found out after sending some photos that they were looking for this blonde girl. This continued the whole night, not to mention is still happening. I just got out of a paid text and the guy again thought I was her. It kind of stings knowing that other girls on the site are getting most of the customers because they are "typical beauties" let alone fake characters that the owner brought to the site.

I suggest watching these two videos for those of you still in complete disbelief. At the end of the day the poll never lies. 65 votes vs 8 proves that it is still prevalent in this day and age. Some of you will say you aren't aware of racism but will subconsciously do it yourself. How many of you will go into panic mode if you see a black/hispanic male dressed up as a "thug" walking towards you on the sidewalk? Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I wanted to end on this note. I don't want my Caucasian sisters to feel like racism excludes them. I married a Caucasian man who grew up poor and didn't believe his "white privilege" did anything for him. I know that some whites were slaves as well (pirate raids). I know that at one time signs in shops read Irish and Italian immigrants need not apply and so on. Somewhere in history someone decided "Oh, it doesn't matter that you'e Irish, Italian, or that you're dirt poor, you LOOK like the rest of us, therefore you ARE one of us." When all is said and done with all of our histories, that seclusion based on color (something none of us have control over) is what upsets people the most. History hurts, but I believe it's the reminder everyday that you aren't Caucasian that people suffer from. To ignore that anything ever happened and still IS happening is wrong. I suggest you watch Jane Elliot's "The Angry Eye". It's a real "eye" opener. She segregates based on eye color in order for people to understand how silly it really is at the end of the day.

Time Wise is AMAZING!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN8pmhQwcnY

Also, watch "The Angry Eye" by Jane Elliot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SpF3cwJ86A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWXB1S1jHKo

Yesssss @ these videos. I posted the Jane Elliot social experiment, but I think it's better to have it split in two links because people get intimidated when they see a full length documentary.
Thank you so much for contributing to the conversation.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
10-05-2014, 02:21 PM
Since my experiences are just a figment of my imagination and due to my negative perspective I suppose I will never achieve success? It's all in my mind and now I'm just gonna count to three and start over as a more enlightened person. No but really, I think I'm gonna stop sharing now. But it's been a good talk though.

LaPetiteVierge
10-05-2014, 02:25 PM
Since my experiences are just a figment of my imagination and due to my negative perspective I suppose I will never achieve success? It's all in my mind and now I'm just gonna count to three and start over as a more enlightened person. No but really, I think I'm gonna stop sharing now. But it's been a good talk though.

I feel you 100% on this lol. I've been like "fuck this thread" every time I see people have responded with certain things.
No matter how many times it's said that "this is a real thing", we keep getting told to shut up about it. That we're the only people holding ourselves back.
Or people talk about trivial shit to try and make racism seem silly.
Please come back and share if/when you feel up to it. I've really enjoyed your presence in here.

loveshooks
10-05-2014, 02:36 PM
The National Criminal Justice Reference Service looked at 85 studies of sentencing outcomes and found that "after taking into account defendant criminal history and current offense seriousness, African-Americans and Latinos were generally sentenced more harshly than whites" (). On top of that, black males also have the highest rate of convictions (black people make up 12-13% of the US population, but black males make up almost 40% of current prisoners [) and the highest known rate of false convictions in the country. Examples include the 1984 cases of Darryl Hunt () and Ronald Cotton ( ) in North Carolina, the 1992 case of Mckinley Cromedy () in New Jersey, and the 1985 case of Timothy Cole () in Texas. All young black males falsely convicted of sexual assault against a white victim. There are still more examples, like Jonathan Fleming who spent 24 (almost 25) years in prison for a NYC murder, even though receipts and surveillance video footage proved that he was on a family vacation in Florida, or Rodell Sanders who spent 21 years in prison after being identified through a doctored photo in a line up.

Here's a look at the Rate of Incarceration per 100,000 population in each state broken down by race: (go to table 13)

Ideally, if you commit a crime, no matter your race you'd have the same chances at trial and if convicted get the same sentance as anyone else who committed a similar crime, but that really isn't the case.

wicked post, and your argument corresponds with pretty much every study ever done in N.A. regarding social race and incarceration rates

a few additional factors that influence incarceration rates:

1) over-policing. people who are stopped and search more frequently tend to get caught more frequently

2) criminalization in the school system. It's typically referred to as the school to prison pipeline. For a brief intro click and . The basic gist is that minor school offenses that used to be dealt with by detentions are now turned over to the police. Black and Hispanic children, particularly Black and Hispanic male youth, are subject to this far more frequently than white male youth

3) socio-econ status. this speaks to what I referred to earlier as the legacy of systemic racism. white people inherit more inter-generational wealth that Black people, a perfect example of this is the US housing plan in the post WW2 era. White families received government support to purchase homes, Black soldiers and families did not. Over the ensuing years those homes owned by white peeps rose in value, creating wealth that Black families had little access to. Wealth builds upon wealth, resulting in the dynamics of wealth and poverty that exist today.

Incarceration rates also factor into wealth accumulation. Take for-profit prisons, each body incarcerated produces no wealth for their partners or children, while creating big money for the corps that run these institutions. For-profit prisons are not a new phenomenon btw, in the post-Emancipation era the state of Georgia pretty much funded their government on the profits earned incarcerating newly freed slaves who broke the law. Black men and women couldn't get jobs, had no land or farms of their own and thus 'broke the law' by hunting on state owned property. It was either break the law or starve so they chose to become 'criminals'.


I could go on, and on, and on but really, people either choose to see it or they don't.

scarletl
10-05-2014, 06:23 PM
I feel you 100% on this lol. I've been like "fuck this thread" every time I see people have responded with certain things.
No matter how many times it's said that "this is a real thing", we keep getting told to shut up about it. That we're the only people holding ourselves back.
Or people talk about trivial shit to try and make racism seem silly.
Please come back and share if/when you feel up to it. I've really enjoyed your presence in here.

Then why start a thread if your not open to EVERYONE'S opinions/thoughts/feelings and so on. Nobody in the last god knows how many pages has told anyone to stop talking or to shut up. We are in a world with billions of people with so many different opinions and outlooks in life.
You seem to only be pleased when someone is agreeing to whether there is white privilege/your race affects your earnings and so on.

Nobody has told you to shut up and nobody has denied that racism exists.

Blovely
10-05-2014, 07:14 PM
Since my experiences are just a figment of my imagination and due to my negative perspective I suppose I will never achieve success? It's all in my mind and now I'm just gonna count to three and start over as a more enlightened person. No but really, I think I'm gonna stop sharing now. But it's been a good talk though.

I feel you 100% on this lol. I've been like "fuck this thread" every time I see people have responded with certain things.
No matter how many times it's said that "this is a real thing", we keep getting told to shut up about it. That we're the only people holding ourselves back.
Or people talk about trivial shit to try and make racism seem silly.
Please come back and share if/when you feel up to it. I've really enjoyed your presence in here.

I feel the same way. Some of you guys said that you were trying to understand but it honestly really doesn't seem like you are. Now at this point I feel like this conversation has become pointless.

LaPetiteVierge
10-05-2014, 07:34 PM
Then why start a thread if your not open to EVERYONE'S opinions/thoughts/feelings and so on. Nobody in the last god knows how many pages has told anyone to stop talking or to shut up. We are in a world with billions of people with so many different opinions and outlooks in life.
You seem to only be pleased when someone is agreeing to whether there is white privilege/your race affects your earnings and so on.

Nobody has told you to shut up and nobody has denied that racism exists.

By talking about negating things consistently when they're outside of one's own experiences and understanding, one creates a tension in which people sharing the truth of matters get faced with someone challenging their reality. It was suggested that we stop "believing" special benefits exist or that a system of people being superior and inferior to one another exists as though 1. we make a conscious decision to exist in a fairy tale world where white privilege and white supremacy exist and 2. the cure for systemic oppression is virtually getting over it.
Just because none of you directly say it doesn't mean it isn't insinuated. There's been pages of people arguing against people's actual experiences and nullifying them with notions that suggest even the conversation is a problem.

You guys aren't here to understand things. Everything is a debate instead of a shift or understanding in perspective. True understanding isn't found in trying to excuse away racism with shit like "well, the definition of this word is this and that's from the 1940s so it doesn't matter and I think you're wrong no offense".
True understanding is sought after with questions and clarity, not arguments and debunking and debating every point to fit within some narrow minded, shallow box that your understanding of shit fits within. Then you all stop saying shit when your retorts are met with response and leave until someone else says something utterly headache creating and cringe worthy. Like are you really trying to learn new shit or are you just here to prove a point when faced with people expressing negative racialized experiences or pointing out racism in the random "is this racist? (BTW I already feel like it isn't and won't change that perspective even upon explanation) " or "see you can be racist to white people too" quips that keep popping up?
Sooooooo...

GlamourRouge
10-05-2014, 07:59 PM
To elaborate on this point I would go as far as to say that, for example, in (continental) Europe the very concept of race doesn't exist. It's ethnicity. A Greek is very different from a Pole which is very different from an Icelander, etc. The same should (and does) extend to other continents – an east African is discernibly different from a Bantu ethnicity, etc. Thus there wouldn't be any "black" or "white" to speak of but instead ethnicities and that kind of does drive a wedge in any particular person of any particular culture's trying to "monopolize" what is the one "true truth".

I'm not sure if I make any sense whatsoever. A good retort you could have is that this site is for US and that US conceptualizations of race take precedence and you would be right to an extent (specifically with the part "this site is for US").

OK, I'm just not eloquent enough for this but maybe this does make some sense.

Yes that's what I'm saying too. No one is denying racism CAN happen, but its usually about a certain physical trait with a schema attached to it. Its discrimination, but discrimination happens just as often to specific "white" ethnic groups as well. Black people do have traits like that, but so do Middle Easterns who are considered white. So do Jewish, who are also considered white. So do various other ethnicities that are white. And then there's like half the Latina population that is mistaken for white, yet they are people of color.

So that's why I find the "white" privilege thing to be very... inaccurate. Its not about white vs black lol. Its ethnicity. Its physical attributes. Its culture. Its religion. Its class. Its all of that. And none of that is white-exclusive or white-inclusive. Its all over the place.

LaPetiteVierge
10-05-2014, 08:16 PM
There's no point in explaining anything to anyone who already knows everything. Smh.

SarahTime
10-05-2014, 08:36 PM
There's no point in explaining anything to anyone who already knows everything. Smh.

I don't think anyone has acted like they know everything here.

We all have different experiences, and it's very hard to change a persons perspective based on their own life experience and their own reality. Your reality is very different than mine, clearly, and I would never try to convince you that it's not YOUR reality, your truth.

So, to try and get other people to completely change their reality and their truth, is seriously difficult to do.

It doesn't mean one person knows everything, it just means we are different and it's very hard to change what a person knows to be true for themselves.

If that makes any sense.

LaPetiteVierge
10-05-2014, 08:45 PM
I don't think anyone has acted like they know everything here.

We all have different experiences, and it's very hard to change a persons perspective based on their own life experience and their own reality. Your reality is very different than mine, clearly, and I would never try to convince you that it's not YOUR reality, your truth.

So, to try and get other people to completely change their reality and their truth, is seriously difficult to do.

It doesn't mean one person knows everything, it just means we are different and it's very hard to change what a person knows to be true for themselves.

If that makes any sense.

There's a difference between having a differing experience and expressing it and asking about things, having it explained to you, and negating that explanation OR consistently arguing against evidenced notions of racism and minimizing things that actually exist and matter.

MiaFaye
10-06-2014, 07:51 AM
Just a thought, maybe average hours worked should be included in this survey as well as average monthly earnings? :)

I really appreciate this thread, but have avoided posting because I don't quite know exactly what my opinions are. Yes, I think race is definitely a factor- I think white women can get away with charging more whereas women of colour struggle to do so unless they fit a certain niche. Another factor to take into consideration is the fact that many of the women of colour are from developing countries, often working for a studio, where the studio sets their race and a comparatively lower income is worth more than it would be in western nations for example. I think this sets a standard that means customers a more likely to balk at women of colour charging higher rates.

As the OP says, lighter toned skin and racial ambiguity can factor into a woman's appeal to customers. I'm mixed-race, half Jamaican and half English, and have a lighter skin tone that reflects my heritage. I have been mistaken on cam as being both asian and south american. I think this helps boost my appeal to customers.

Other factors that should be considered are education and accent. I'm well spoken, fairly educated and have a neutral british accent that seems to appeal to American customers especially ("Wow, I didn't know there were black people in England!" etc -_-) I think having a more regional or 'ghetto' (hate that term, but it serves a purpose...) accent can put off some customers.

Haven't yet read through the whole thread, so I hope the discussion has been considerate and constructive! Sorry if I repeated anyone's points!

Melonie
10-06-2014, 08:27 AM
^^^ that probably leads to another earlier point being repeated ... that, where camgirls are concerned, their earnings potential is closely tied to the 'discretionary' spending budgets of customers who have a preference / affinity for the particular 'attributes' they offer. Thus customer income demographics and customer preferences may play a large role.

LaPetiteVierge
10-06-2014, 09:01 AM
Just a thought, maybe average hours worked should be included in this survey as well as average monthly earnings? :)

I really appreciate this thread, but have avoided posting because I don't quite know exactly what my opinions are. Yes, I think race is definitely a factor- I think white women can get away with charging more whereas women of colour struggle to do so unless they fit a certain niche. Another factor to take into consideration is the fact that many of the women of colour are from developing countries, often working for a studio, where the studio sets their race and a comparatively lower income is worth more than it would be in western nations for example. I think this sets a standard that means customers a more likely to balk at women of colour charging higher rates.

As the OP says, lighter toned skin and racial ambiguity can factor into a woman's appeal to customers. I'm mixed-race, half Jamaican and half English, and have a lighter skin tone that reflects my heritage. I have been mistaken on cam as being both asian and south american. I think this helps boost my appeal to customers.

Other factors that should be considered are education and accent. I'm well spoken, fairly educated and have a neutral british accent that seems to appeal to American customers especially ("Wow, I didn't know there were black people in England!" etc -_-) I think having a more regional or 'ghetto' (hate that term, but it serves a purpose...) accent can put off some customers.

Haven't yet read through the whole thread, so I hope the discussion has been considerate and constructive! Sorry if I repeated anyone's points!
Yea, "ghetto" is not the word for that. It's African American Vernacular English. Also known as Ebonics if you're Reagan. It's a dialect. In America at the very least, it's been associated with stupidity and being uneducated. This is actually a farce, but I won't go into a history lesson about it.

Also, education in camming doesn't play a role at all from what I can tell. I don't think a college-level education makes a difference in the sex industry as a whole.
If you're interested in the role race and education play in employment in America, here you go (https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/yicare/pages/141/attachments/original/1403804069/Closing_the_Race_Gap_Ntnl_6.25.14.pdf?1403804069). It's a PDF with info all about it.

LaPetiteVierge
10-06-2014, 09:14 AM
^^^ that probably leads to another earlier point being repeated ... that, where camgirls are concerned, their earnings potential is closely tied to the 'discretionary' spending budgets of customers who have a preference / affinity for the particular 'attributes' they offer. Thus customer income demographics and customer preferences may play a large role.
I agree with that sentiment. That personal preferences and personal income of customers are what majorly contribute to our profits in this industry. Especially personal preferences.
But that also runs in concert with the original conversation. The one about the views and valuation of women based on race. I don't agree with the order of tiering, but I agree that it plays a significant role.

justanothercamgirl
10-06-2014, 09:59 AM
The thing about the info graphic post that got me thinking the most was when it come to the prison and criminal statistics. I believe that despite your colour, if you commit a crime then you both do the time and the same amount of time. I am aware that there probably is more black people in prison than white people but that has nothing to do with their skin colour, that person is in prison for a reason, for their own stupid actions and breaking the law.

Ah, but this is where the white privilege thing gets interesting. Not all crime is created equal.

Example: How many times have you heard of a business scandal that involves large amounts of money being stolen from other people and those people never see a single day in prison?

Yet, minorities usually are arrested and put in prison for drug-related crimes and once you have been arrested for a crime then life gets a lot harder when it comes to getting a job.

To lighten the mood, let me put it in musical form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykvc20YpXAQ