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kirakonstantin
11-26-2014, 08:37 AM
One French feminist, who was also very much a Marxist, from a book written in what...1950? Two quotes from the same person doesn't build much of case. Now... Show me where that was passed into law and we'll talk.

Rick: I'm not a feminist, partially for the reasons you mentioned. I really bristle at having an ideology shoved down my throat, especially when it also comes with a super liberal chaser. Maybe it's a rejection of my upbringing, but telling me what to think or trying to force me to accept shit that doesn't logically work for me results in me rejecting it all. I'm able to think for myself and I'm rather protective of that right. No single ideology is ever going to get it 100%.

charlotte.
11-26-2014, 08:55 AM
usually when people quote de beauvior on an endless loop its cute, in the same way other college freshman discoveries/enlightenments are cute.

but this is just making me cringe.

also im pretty drunk right now but did i read somewhere that no fault divorces were bad for women? what in the...

loveshooks
11-26-2014, 09:08 AM
There are other forms of coercion besides force, such as social conditioning, which is what feminism is used for. Result: Women now make up 50% of the workforce.

Feminists reduced tax breaks for single-income families and eliminated the "family wage", i.e. higher wages for sole-earner family members. They introduced "no-fault" divorce laws, making it easier for husbands to divorce their wives, forcing them to work to support themselves.

Is it such a coincidence that the first feminists were men? Feminism has been good for us.

so it benefits men for me to be paid a comparable salary for equal work? awesome, high fives all around. sorry dude but I'll take my own job and my own rights over depending on ANYONE for economic survival any day. I love, adore, respect my partner; he's more than a 'husband', he's my best friend, but the idea of relying upon him for my economic survival? shudder. I can't see how I could feel like I was an equal partner to someone who held all the financial and social power.

beyond that, both my partner and I love that, were one of us to get sick or lose a job we'd both continue to thrive financially. single-income households are inherently less secure for both parties involved and that sort of insecurity only serves to benefit corporations who have NO interest in the well-being of anything other than the bottom line. fewer options and resources=less power. keep ignoring that, it's amusing.

as to your notion that no fault divorce is oppressive to women, all that does is highlight your inability to grasp the ways in which legally defined power imbalances reward the party with more financial/social resources. your lack of comprehension/willful disregard of that fact doesn't make it any less of a reality.


Betty Friedan...

this is why your perspective is so irrelevant to the realities of our society. Friedan had her place but her position was really only relevant to white, middle class women. chicas outside the suburban middle class experience rolled their eyes and kept working, as the sort of system to which Friedan spoke was only relevant to a small subset of the female experience. I repeat my earlier paraphrase of Morrison, in second wave 'liberation' of work outside the home the reality of 'home as place of work' expanded in a fairly oppressive manner. See the CA domestic workers program for further details. It's hardly a level playing field among women when one is alone in a foreign country, dependent upon one's employer for legal status and without a human resources dept to which to turn if one is mistreated. Go back a bit further and see also the concept of 'Mammy'. Friedan sure as hell wasn't speaking to the realities of those women. Expand further beyond the relative wealth of the 'first world' and these peeps you keep quoting become even more irrelevant.

as already pointed out you keep grasping at arbitrary soundbites taken out of context from somewhat irrelevant sources in the hopes of proving that...what, we're better off if we're consigned to a level of legal rights just above that of a house pet? Beyond that, what of women who are partnered with men who aren't granted the same socio-economic benefits afforded to white middle class men? Collateral damage in furtherance of the pursuit of some 50's era social ideal?


I've gotta stop reading Customer Conversation threads...................

nah, this is entertaining as hell. better than creationism museums for the lolz; this dinosaur is real.

Aniela
11-26-2014, 09:22 AM
Western governments or corporations would never want to do that.

It's probably just a coincidence then that Betty Friedan was a an active member of the CPUSA until her mid-30's (mid-1950's).




Wow, love. This is … beyond priceless. Trying to boost the credibility of your points by citing a fruitcake who puts 'sins against women' on the same lvl as the Holocaust. Idk abt any1 else here, but as one who had relatives in the camps, 'over the top' doesn't even begin to describe that.

unbeleavable
11-26-2014, 11:01 AM
I think Hopper has had to much time in his hands & thinks SW is his debate club. It's not & I'm going to have start deleting them because it's getting old.

Hopper
11-26-2014, 11:26 AM
I think Hopper has had to much time in his hands & thinks SW is his debate club. It's not & I'm going to have start deleting them because it's getting old.

Yeah, debating in a thread on feminism in a discussion forum. Of all the places to do that.

audritwo
11-26-2014, 11:37 AM
Yes, this is a discussion forum... But majority of the times that you "discuss" you cause conflict. Conflict and debate is two different things. Someone is always wrong on the internet. May that be your opinion or someone elses. But "discussing" with you is like beating a dead horse.

unbeleavable
11-26-2014, 11:53 AM
Please see PM Hopper