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Unkle Fuzzy
12-16-2014, 04:37 PM
I think in most cases when young ladies decide to give older men a chance that it is driven by a history of crappy relationships with young guys. Many young women wanna chase the stero typical good looking young stub that everybody wants. Unfortunately these guys are shallow because they don't have to earn a woman, she throws herself at him.

I feel young ladies make that leap to older men in an effort to date "Men" not "Boys".

Vamp
12-16-2014, 05:53 PM
As a woman, who will be 39 next month, I can safely say it is all up to you.

I have never had a problem finding men to date. Looks are only a part of the equation. Confidence level is everything. The more confident you are the more likely you are to attract a great man. Confidence comes with age. I date older successful, respectful, glorious men now. I am much happier with my dating life now than when I was younger.

Also keep in mind most of these fear mongering articles are written just to sell beauty products. They want to freak you out so that you run to buy a ton of crap you don't need.

Lastly, ask yourself, why does it scare you? Are you afraid to be alone? Why? Use fear as a way to learn about yourself. Learning about yourself is the only way you will have a better future.

Jay12
12-16-2014, 07:55 PM
It's true that there are increased risk factors for the child when the father is over 40, and the probability for impregnating a woman decreases as well. However, it still remains an option if they want to try. Women also have increased physical risks just giving birth as they get older, as well as menopause. Most men don't want to wait until they are 50 to have a kid, but they aren't under as much time pressure as women. And many famous men have had children later, even into their 70's.

http://www.thesharkguys.com/lists/top-10-old-guys-who-fathered-kids/

What if they froze their sperms during their youth? What if they used a donated sperm?

gameover
12-16-2014, 08:39 PM
What if they froze their sperms during their youth? What if they used a donated sperm?

If you google the subject, you will find that it is generally accepted that some men maintain enough sperm count, motility, and morphology to impregnate a woman, right up until death. As I mentioned, the probability decreases, and the risk of health issues for the child increases.

These guys were born before techniques like freezing sperm were possible. For example, Charlie Chaplin was born in the late 1800's. Additionally, the legitimacy of these children hasn't been questioned. Given the celebrity of these guys, if these children were illegitimate, they would have been vilified in public.

Jay12
12-17-2014, 01:04 AM
If you google the subject, you will find that it is generally accepted that some men maintain enough sperm count, motility, and morphology to impregnate a woman, right up until death. As I mentioned, the probability decreases, and the risk of health issues for the child increases.

These guys were born before techniques like freezing sperm were possible. For example, Charlie Chaplin was born in the late 1800's. Additionally, the legitimacy of these children hasn't been questioned. Given the celebrity of these guys, if these children were illegitimate, they would have been vilified in public.

Steve Martin is currently in his late 60's and became a father at age 67. He could had his frozen, for he was young and rich during the time where freezing sperm became available. Back to Chaplin: what if any of his eight offsprings had any health problems?

gameover
12-17-2014, 01:18 AM
Steve Martin is currently in his late 60's and became a father at age 67. He could had his frozen, for he was young and rich during the time where freezing sperm became available. Back to Chaplin: what if any of his eight offsprings had any health problems?

I didn't spend a lot of time looking, but it appears that all 8 of the children he had from his last wife are still alive. I didn't see any mention of health issues.

"Today Charlie Chaplin’s youngest son Christopher James Chaplin reaches a milestone.

Born July 8, 1962 he has turned 50 years old. Charlie’s 8 children with Oona are still alive. Born between 1944 to 1962, When Christopher was born when Charlie was 73. This was before Viagra:)"

http://chaplinfortheages.tumblr.com/post/26759233731/today-charlie-chaplins-youngest-son-christopher

JoJoX
12-17-2014, 01:21 AM
Um, we are in year 2015. All of that is bullshit.

Unkle Fuzzy
12-17-2014, 06:00 AM
It's still 2014 for a few days yet dear...get some sleep. It only means Charlie's kid is 52 and he was quoting from an article.

My grandparents had an active sex life until a year or so before my grandfather died at 89 years old.

audrey_k
12-17-2014, 08:01 AM
I think in most cases when young ladies decide to give older men a chance that it is driven by a history of crappy relationships with young guys. Many young women wanna chase the stero typical good looking young stub that everybody wants. Unfortunately these guys are shallow because they don't have to earn a woman, she throws herself at him.

I feel young ladies make that leap to older men in an effort to date "Men" not "Boys".
As a 25 year old dating a 36 year I can say that was largely my initial attraction to my bf, of course it's about much more now. Being financially secure and succesful is one sign of maturity but not all. I've dated a lot of guys in their 20s and they're babies and not looking for anything serious. I think men and women mature at different rates so if you're looking for something serious it makes sense to date someone older. It had nothing to do with money or career for me and everything to do with emotional maturity.

Morrigan
12-17-2014, 09:19 AM
I would say that in all honestly that my appeal to both men and women has really increased more once I hit my 30's than before, and many of them are in fact younger than me from anywhere from a year or two to over a decade younger. Why do I think it's happening? confidence, more stability, les prone to the bouts of immature, petty childish drama that can linger on well into the 20's in both sexes and a few other factors no doubt but those are the main ones that come to mind. Granted I've been married over a decade now- and my " harem" ( comprised of both men and women) is by large more of a term of endearment for those closest to me with deep emotional bonds ( I dont actually do anything with them - Im a good girl) so Im not exactly one to seek out the dating world ( not that I ever really did, relationships just seemed to happen ) but if something came up and I needed to go mate hunting, It feels like it would be easier now than not.

Melonie
12-17-2014, 10:53 AM
^^^ you bring up a key distinction ... playing the dating game with the objective of 'mate hunting', versus expecting something different. Statistics tend to indicate that 'upscale' age 30+ females engaging in dating for 'mate hunting' purposes outnumber potential qualified and willing 'upscale' male mates by a 10:1 ratio. If the girl is expecting something different, then the ratio is closer to 1:1 !

Kellydancer
12-17-2014, 11:41 AM
I'm not sure it's 10:1 unless you are talking very successful men and women (CEO's and the like). If that is the case, it brings up a lot of issues. For one, these are men at the top of the financial ladder so their choices are more than say a man working as a mechanic. I've known a few of these men (mostly customers)and they can have anything they desire, which often means a trophy wife and a hot mistress (though not always). Meanwhile the successful women (which of course are less)often reject the less successful men and want a man like them but find those guys have more choices. However, if they lower their standards they are more successful. Of course it has to be mentioned that more successful women are often bypassing having babies (many times by choice)which brings up a lot of political issues. However, men at the middle to bottom of the scale don't have as many choices, though they think they do. These men see the men at the top getting it all and think they can, which is not true. A 44 year old CEO will be in demand, especially if he is handsome, whereas a 44 year old mechanic who is of average looks and income will not be in demand like the CEO.

AmericanFlyer
12-17-2014, 12:35 PM
This thread really hits home to me. I'm in my mid-sixties and have been engaged to a former twenty-year dancer in her mid forties who has been through two very bad marriages, one with an alcoholic physically abusive man and the second with a drug addict. I am widower who lost my wife of thirty years to breast cancer. We both have children already, so that isn't an issue. I was skeptical at first, but she said age is just a number, and it never even seems to come up.

She sent me a long text about why she feels the way she does. Here are some of the things she mentioned:

- Previous husbands were in extended adolescence
- I'm better in bed (might be just flattery though)
- Sweet and appreciative
- Honest and straightforward
- Caring and compassionate
- Better at listening
- Great mental connection
- Feel like a princess
- Drama-free
- Best experience of her life
- Sharing
- Rather spend all of her time with an older man than a second without him
- Prior relationships with same age or younger were disappointing
- Gentleman
- Responsible
- Romantic
- Life life to the max
- Better friends
- Fewer marriages end in divorce
- You make him proud
- Let yourself be treasured
- Not the same age but equals in relationship
- A truly caring and committed mate is the highest priority
- Time spent is more meaningful and enjoyable
- Less fighting
- Younger men see women as being there for them; older men are proud of their women
- Women love to be taken out and put on display
- Younger men have more of a temper
- Older men love feminine women
- Older men want a woman who can hold her own
- Older men appreciate a woman's intelligence
- Every woman likes being a sex object sometimes for her man
- Once you date an older man there is no going back

All of these are her words exactly and some of them surprised me. Bu they all ring true.

rickdugan
12-17-2014, 04:24 PM
My bed wasn't cold very often when I was in my 20s, especially since I was in two long-term relationships during that time, but I have to admit that my dating horizons expanded dramatically when I hit my 30s. During that time, I was indeed starting to have some career success and, yes, it most certainly mattered. I'm quite certain that I wouldn't have had such an easy time dating in my early 30s if I was a fry cook at the local McDonald's.

I'm not saying that money was even close to the sole consideration of the girls that I dated - and there were a lot during that time as I was going through a bit of a play around phase. I like to think that charm, good treatment and not too terrible looks all played a role, along with the fact that I had a certain quiet self confidence during that time. But the fact that I brought home good money was definitely part of the equation. And you know what? IMHO there is nothing wrong with that. There is no nobility in poverty and, IME, some girls start caring about things like stability and a potential family a lot more as they move through their mid to late 20s and start pushing 30. IMHO this is not so much a simple biological clock consideration, though I believe that it is one factor for some girls, but also a function of growing maturity and several years of living in the real world. For girls who already have a kid or two, I think that both maturity and other real world considerations become factors even earlier.

When I finally got serious about wanting a family, I was in my mid 30s. At that point, the reality was that I did have to consider the age of my potential partners. I just couldn't start fresh in a new relationship with someone older than I and then hope that things would go well through the courtship phase and that I might get a kid or two before she was 40-something and I was pushing 40. It was even a gamble to start fresh with someone my own age. So with all of that in mind, I tended to focus on girls 3-5 year younger than I.

Though, in a weird twist, while I was looking for that somewhat younger girl, I ended up meeting a woman my own age who I knew, almost immediately, was the one. In fact, I wanted her as my wife and the mother of my children so much that I was willing to take a chance on having fewer kids than to try to have more with anyone else. Now I have 3 kids, though it was a struggle as the last two pregnancies were high risk and not without complications, but they are healthy and beautiful. It is funny how life works.

I guess my point in all of this is to say that there is some truth on each side of the debate, but just some. Yes money factors into how some women choose men and yes age factors into how some men view women, but so too do many other things. My wife could very likely have married a guy far richer than I and I could certainly have married a woman far younger than her, but here we are. However, at the same time, we did have standards and if she was ugly and/or dumb, or if I was unable to provide for a family, then this may never have happened. Net-net these things are just much more complicated than the simplistic beliefs held by some.

SnuffleUffleGrass
12-17-2014, 05:10 PM
This is a really interesting thread. I will say I chose my current mate b/c he is the total opposite of my last partner. IMO people tend to "run away" from people who have traits they find hurtful and negative, and are overly receptive to new partners who "offer something different." It's like we are not that different from how the average non-primate mammal reacts to negative and postitive stimuli.

What really shocks me is how women 1) are constantly encouraged to be naive when it comes to the raw truths of relationships and reality and 2) how many women are willing to suffer long term abuse for a small amount of money. I ended one of my friendships with a female who had delusions of grandeur that some trustfundian man was going to marry her & make her a rich woman- he gave her a ring then proceeded to destroy her life. In short, that does happen enough that most women won't truly "marry for the money"......

DorienG
12-17-2014, 10:04 PM
I can't believe articles like this are STILL being written! When i was in my mid twenties (it was the late 80's) there was an article written about the same things, but one of the statements that caused a bit of controversy was this" Women over 35 had a better chance of being shot by a terrorist than getting married". Yup! This affected me so badly, that between the ages of 29 to 35, I was a nightmare to date! When I think back about those years, I kinds feel sorry for the guys I was dating. I had an agenda and if they didn't meet it, either I was into desperately manipulating them into my plan or I would kick them to curb quickly.

Thank goodness after those 6 years, I began to relax about the dating/marriage thing. I had a couple of long distance relationships, then just dated randomly without a crazy agenda.

Eventually, I connected with someone and was married by 43.

If I hadn't been so freaked out by that stupid article, I could have devoted a lot more energy to more constructive things.

Unkle Fuzzy
12-18-2014, 12:13 AM
I think it really boils down like this....you love who you love, and are pretty helpless to change that. You can choose a different path, but the attractions remain.

Age makes no real difference, except in your head, and following these stereotypes does nothing to help you find happiness.

Don't go looking for love, just let it happen, and remember....

A watched pot never boils...

And

Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

Don't discount some guy or lady because they aren't as pretty, wealthy, smart, etc, etc.

If you throw out the templates of what you think you need, you may be supprised at what you find.

Kellydancer
12-18-2014, 01:26 AM
I think it really boils down like this....you love who you love, and are pretty helpless to change that. You can choose a different path, but the attractions remain.

Age makes no real difference, except in your head, and following these stereotypes does nothing to help you find happiness.

Don't go looking for love, just let it happen, and remember....

A watched pot never boils...

And

Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

Don't discount some guy or lady because they aren't as pretty, wealthy, smart, etc, etc.

If you throw out the templates of what you think you need, you may be supprised at what you find.

In general I agree with this, except if someone has a dealbreaker for a reason. For example, I don't date dads and this is ironclad. I have in the past, it was something that caused me grief so now I avoid men who have kids. However, in a way I do believe people often can't help who they fall in love with.


I can't believe articles like this are STILL being written! When i was in my mid twenties (it was the late 80's) there was an article written about the same things, but one of the statements that caused a bit of controversy was this" Women over 35 had a better chance of being shot by a terrorist than getting married". Yup! This affected me so badly, that between the ages of 29 to 35, I was a nightmare to date! When I think back about those years, I kinds feel sorry for the guys I was dating. I had an agenda and if they didn't meet it, either I was into desperately manipulating them into my plan or I would kick them to curb quickly.

Thank goodness after those 6 years, I began to relax about the dating/marriage thing. I had a couple of long distance relationships, then just dated randomly without a crazy agenda.

Eventually, I connected with someone and was married by 43.

If I hadn't been so freaked out by that stupid article, I could have devoted a lot more energy to more constructive things.

I remember that study and remember being afraid at 15 that I would remain unmarried. Sadly, I'm going to be 44 in January and am still single, which does scare me. I tried online and failed miserably. I am attracted to someone and he is becoming more and more comfortable with me to the point he is telling me secrets. I am in love with him and fear that if it doesn't progress that I won't find someone like him. Online scarred me terribly with the trash and the evil men and the thought of even trying it again horrifies me. I know what is going to happen will anyway but I do fear if things don't go my way. It's so weird because it feels like we are in a relationship though we are just friends. His mom wants to get involved with activities I am in to spend time with me, my parents and his mom hope we end up together. We share the same views on almost everything and we click. I fear it not going past friend and me meeting someone without as strong of a connection that I have with him. Or worse, being one of those women who die unmarried. I know though being unmarried isn't worse than being with the wrong person.

Melonie
12-18-2014, 01:31 AM
I'm not sure it's 10:1 unless you are talking very successful men and women (CEO's and the like). If that is the case, it brings up a lot of issues. For one, these are men at the top of the financial ladder so their choices are more than say a man working as a mechanic. I've known a few of these men (mostly customers)and they can have anything they desire, which often means a trophy wife and a hot mistress (though not always). Meanwhile the successful women (which of course are less)often reject the less successful men and want a man like them but find those guys have more choices. However, if they lower their standards they are more successful

Arguably, when you're talking about CEO's and other men at the 'top of the financial ladder', you're talking about the top 1% or even top 0.1%. Agreed on all of your comments regarding such guys, including the observation that they can have virtually anything they desire ( and therefore reject anything that isn't exactly what they desire ). However, the segment of guys I was talking about were top 10% ers. Statistically speaking, these guys have individual earnings levels of $77,500+, which is a 'far cry' from CEO's etc. At that income level, it is presumed that the following are likely to be true ...

- the guy has sufficient earnings / credit to actually form and support an 'average' family / household, without constantly depending on the ( future ) wife to contribute a sizeable second paycheck

- the guy has sufficient earnings to allow for a so-called 'middle class' standard of living ... i.e. 'decent' neighborhood, good schools, dependable car etc.

- the guy has sufficient earnings to allow for some 'hope' that the future will be better than the present ... i.e. being able to save for children's college educations, being able to take the occasional nice vacation, etc.

For those 10% ers, the arguable ratio is now 10:1 in favor of the guys.

As you point out, if the girl is willing to 'lower her expectations' to consider guys in the top 40% ( = about $40,000 in individual income ), then the ratio drops much closer to 1:1 . However, given today's economic realities, it is presumed that the following are likely to be true ...

- the ( future ) wife will be expected to contribute a sizeable regular paycheck to the family budget to avoid eventual bankruptcy and achieve a 'working class' standard of living

- financial constraints are likely to limit the household to locating in 'questionable' neighborhoods, with 'questionable' schools etc. Same financial constraints are also likely to limit the family to second-hand cars etc.

- financial constraints are likely to mean that money must flow toward paying off student loan debt for 20 years versus saving for children's college educations. Similar financial constraints are likely to lead to 'stay'-cations.

Despite the axiom that 'love conquers all', for a fact a 'working class' standard of living, a constant financial 'struggle', the loss of 'hope' that tomorrow is going to be any better than today, etc. have been statistically shown to take a major toll on relationships. And, as a practical matter, these days a divorced 'working class' husband is virtually guaranteed to have his financial future ruined via child support payments. Thus, among guys with top 40% 'working class' incomes, there is now major pushback against the idea of marriage ...



The point, of course, is that if the girl widens her 'window' of acceptable dating partners to include 'working class' guys, she may not actually be increasing the number of potential 'mates' as much as would appear on the surface.

Kellydancer
12-18-2014, 01:39 AM
That makes sense. I do think those men have more options. I don't think that most men are at that level but many of the bottom 50% or so think they have the same choices as the top 10%. Isn't the average salary something like $40,000? Men around that salary and below definitely don't have the same options as top 10%.

Melonie
12-18-2014, 02:05 AM
^^^ yes the top 40% ( = $40k plus per year ) earning guys do have choices regarding dating partners ... although far fewer choices on a per-capita basis than the top 10% ( = $77k per year ) earning guys have. But from the girl's perspective, a significantly lower percentage of the top 40% earning guys are likely to be looking to make serious relationship commitments ( from my link above ).


(snip)The retreat from marriage in Middle America cuts deeply into the nation’s hopes and dreams as well. For if marriage is increasingly unachievable for our moderately educated citizens—a group that represents 58 percent of the adult population (age 25–60)[4]—then it is likely that we will witness the emergence of a new society. For a substantial share of the United States, economic mobility will be out of reach, their children’s life chances will diminish, and large numbers of young men will live apart from the civilizing power of married life.

This retreat is also troubling because highly educated Americans (defined here as having at least a bachelor’s degree) have in recent years been largely unaffected by the tidal wave of family change that first hit the poor in the 1960s and has since moved higher into Middle America. Indeed, highly educated Americans, who make up 30 percent of the adult population, now enjoy marriages that are as stable and happy as those four decades ago. There is thus a growing “marriage gap” between moderately and highly educated America.[5] This means that more affluent Americans are now doubly privileged in comparison to their moderately educated fellow citizens—by their superior socioeconomic resources and by their stable family lives.

So the United States is increasingly a separate and unequal nation when it comes to the institution of marriage. Marriage is in danger of becoming a luxury good attainable only to those with the material and cultural means to grab hold of it.(snip)


Arguably, the author's linkages to higher education are actually a reference to a top 10% $77k+ income level ... which many but not all Bachelor's degree holders may achieve, but which less formally educated 'entrepreneurial' Americans may also achieve.

Also, from the girl's perspective, even if they do achieve serious relationship commitments with a top 40% earning guy / husband, it is now very probably going to lead to a 'working class' standard of living for herself and her children !!! This is typically not something which an ex-dancer is going to be satisfied with on a 'permanent' basis.

PS to answer your other question, depending on how one factors in the details of unemployed vs working part time vs 'not in the work force' etc., the 'average' = 50% earnings level individual US incomes for those who are actually working is now somewhere around $35k per year. This translates into an average 'household' income level of about $58k per year with combined husband's and wife's incomes.

DorienG
12-18-2014, 12:32 PM
In general I agree with this, except if someone has a dealbreaker for a reason. For example, I don't date dads and this is ironclad. I have in the past, it was something that caused me grief so now I avoid men who have kids. However, in a way I do believe people often can't help who they fall in love with.



I remember that study and remember being afraid at 15 that I would remain unmarried. Sadly, I'm going to be 44 in January and am still single, which does scare me. I tried online and failed miserably. I am attracted to someone and he is becoming more and more comfortable with me to the point he is telling me secrets. I am in love with him and fear that if it doesn't progress that I won't find someone like him. Online scarred me terribly with the trash and the evil men and the thought of even trying it again horrifies me. I know what is going to happen will anyway but I do fear if things don't go my way. It's so weird because it feels like we are in a relationship though we are just friends. His mom wants to get involved with activities I am in to spend time with me, my parents and his mom hope we end up together. We share the same views on almost everything and we click. I fear it not going past friend and me meeting someone without as strong of a connection that I have with him. Or worse, being one of those women who die unmarried. I know though being unmarried isn't worse than being with the wrong person.


Kelly- At 15? Really?? Damn society! At 15, I still felt like a kid, but an overly romantic one. But at that point- I didn't want to think about marriage until I was 28, that seemed like the beginning of adult years to me, lol. But I got pressure from family, some friends and the stupid media:-( Then at 28, everybody basically told me I had waited too long:O

To be honest- if I go through a divorce or if something happens to my man, I don't think I would want to re-marry. Yes, I would want a lover in my life, but marriage wouldn't be like a goal. If this supposed future person wanted to marry me, I wouldn't make it a big wedding like the one I had. (Although, it was a fun, kick-ass wedding:-)

Kelly- I met my husband (and knew him long before we started dating) at an improv workshop. I was an actress that was taking this workshop without the intent of hooking up with anyone, just to learn a craft. Maybe there is something that you enjoy doing where there is a meet up group that suits your interests? (Sorry for threadjack).

Kellydancer
12-29-2014, 02:45 PM
Kelly- At 15? Really?? Damn society! At 15, I still felt like a kid, but an overly romantic one. But at that point- I didn't want to think about marriage until I was 28, that seemed like the beginning of adult years to me, lol. But I got pressure from family, some friends and the stupid media:-( Then at 28, everybody basically told me I had waited too long:O

To be honest- if I go through a divorce or if something happens to my man, I don't think I would want to re-marry. Yes, I would want a lover in my life, but marriage wouldn't be like a goal. If this supposed future person wanted to marry me, I wouldn't make it a big wedding like the one I had. (Although, it was a fun, kick-ass wedding:-)

Kelly- I met my husband (and knew him long before we started dating) at an improv workshop. I was an actress that was taking this workshop without the intent of hooking up with anyone, just to learn a craft. Maybe there is something that you enjoy doing where there is a meet up group that suits your interests? (Sorry for threadjack).

I have tried various events and while I meet men, it is never men I like. I do have a friend I have been more time with and that is a possible. Marriage was always something I figured I would do, but not until I was ready. The main problem I am finding is that most men are chosen now and many leftovers. I should not worry but it does stress me at times.

SnuffleUffleGrass
12-30-2014, 09:38 AM
I have tried various events and while I meet men, it is never men I like. I do have a friend I have been more time with and that is a possible. Marriage was always something I figured I would do, but not until I was ready. The main problem I am finding is that most men are chosen now and many leftovers. I should not worry but it does stress me at times.

This is a morbid way to look at the topic but- your best bet is widowers and men divorcing after 10-20 years of marriage. Those guys tend to be "keepers" but their marriages fell victim to common problems, like problems with the kids, a cheating wife, or the (ever sad) unexpected death of a spouse. I would never advise a woman date a widower until he's been on his own for a couple years.

I've also noticed that men who are successful (on paper) but are never having normal LTRs or marriages are either just really controlling about their money/assets OR there is something really wrong with them (like pedophilia or severe behavioral issues.) (He also might be Batman lol but I doubt it!)

Kellydancer
12-30-2014, 01:40 PM
I would consider widowers but not divorced men, especially if there are kids. I have my reasons, especially because of religion but also the drama and financial reason. I can't marry a divorced man in church either. I prefer never married men because I am never married. Divorced dads aren't even an option for me, yuck. No interest in being a stepmother. Zero interest in dealing with his ex or his kids. I have someone I like so not a lot of interest in looking until things change for me, such as job changes. I sound harsh towards divorced dads, but been there and it doesn't work for me.

audritwo
01-01-2015, 08:57 AM
Oh sweety, no. Those articles are bullshit. My mother got divorced last year, just turned 50, and her inbox on match.com is constantly filled. She has a new date like weekly.

I'm surprised I even got married. I HATED conventual dating (courting). It was bullshit and I don't like waiting for people or try to impress them. I just hung out with people I liked. If they want to be in a relationship, cool beans!

lynn2009
01-02-2015, 08:50 PM
I've also noticed that men who are successful (on paper) but are never having normal LTRs or marriages are either just really controlling about their money/assets OR there is something really wrong with them (like pedophilia or severe behavioral issues.) (He also might be Batman lol but I doubt it!)

A vanilla coworker of mine was married to a very successful career man, who had had 2 long term but never married relationships before they met and he is a HUGE dick when it comes to finances. She has her own career but he still outearns her by at least double and they have two small kids (2 and 1) and he absolutely refused to ever help w/ the kids because he was always saying he paid the mortgage, the house was in his name, he paid all the utilities, BS, etc. And he saved ridiculous amounts of money and considered it his savings, not family savings, it was absurd. Poor girl was looking to get divorced before even 2 years went by but she can't afford it. They started dating when she was an undergrad and he was a postdoc, she says now she was too young to realize all the warning signs.

Kellydancer
01-02-2015, 09:23 PM
I've known many divorced and widowed men who were also assholes. Marital status has little to do with whether someone is horrible. In fact, I've known divorced people divorced for that reason.

Unkle Fuzzy
01-03-2015, 12:04 AM
Kellydancer, please don't take this as negative, because it is at least partly in jest.....

The very FACT that you rule out divorced men, and men with childred almost assures that fate with find you maddly, head-over-heels, in love, with a divorced man with at least one child.

God has a sick sense of humor like that...

I sincerly hope that you hate divorced men, and detest all children.

That will ensure that you would make the best step-mom/2nd wife ever.

Remember, this is partly in jest, but the laws of nature often have ways of working to lead us where we truly belong....whether we realize that is what is best, or not. (Sound of fire-proof suit zipping up)

Kellydancer
01-03-2015, 11:55 AM
Kellydancer, please don't take this as negative, because it is at least partly in jest.....

The very FACT that you rule out divorced men, and men with childred almost assures that fate with find you maddly, head-over-heels, in love, with a divorced man with at least one child.

God has a sick sense of humor like that...

I sincerly hope that you hate divorced men, and detest all children.

That will ensure that you would make the best step-mom/2nd wife ever.

Remember, this is partly in jest, but the laws of nature often have ways of working to lead us where we truly belong....whether we realize that is what is best, or not. (Sound of fire-proof suit zipping up)

Wrong. When I meet dads I run like hell. I have dated dads and never again. Way too much drama, financial and religious issues with them. I like kids, I just hate exes. I also strongly believe that people with young kids should at least try to stick with the ex or at least not try to bother me. God knows not to introduce me to these men, especially considering I'd have to give up church. No thanks, I'd rather be alone. However he does have a sense of humor as he introduces me to men I fall for who have issues, but everyone has issues. At least they can marry in church.

thisunrest
01-13-2015, 08:56 AM
Not in my total experience. My good friend is thirty-two, just ended an unfulfilling nine-year relationship with a man her age and has been in a relationship with a twenty-four year old since before Thanksgiving. She is deliriously happy.

SnuffleUffleGrass
01-13-2015, 10:21 AM
A vanilla coworker of mine was married to a very successful career man, who had had 2 long term but never married relationships before they met and he is a HUGE dick when it comes to finances. She has her own career but he still outearns her by at least double and they have two small kids (2 and 1) and he absolutely refused to ever help w/ the kids because he was always saying he paid the mortgage, the house was in his name, he paid all the utilities, BS, etc. And he saved ridiculous amounts of money and considered it his savings, not family savings, it was absurd. Poor girl was looking to get divorced before even 2 years went by but she can't afford it. They started dating when she was an undergrad and he was a postdoc, she says now she was too young to realize all the warning signs.

On a related note, I know of a woman who waited until middle age to finally get married...and her husband swindled her out of a "dream home" that she financed. (The divorce got so awful she just let the house go in order to cut contact with her ex-husband.) Men cry all day about "gold digger women" but there are men who know how to play that game too.

Aniela
01-13-2015, 11:00 AM
@Kellydancer -- just curious abt your thoughts on single mothers, divorced or otherwise. Are they 'used goods' as well & thus unworthy of finding another partner after their previous relationship has disintegrated? Does merely having a child from a previous relationship (regardless of circumstances) make them 'used goods'? From sm of the stories shared on this forum, many ladies have perfectly valid reasons for ending the relationship @ taking the kids w/ them. Should men be prohibited from having an out when the relationship goes south?

I get preferences, but I don't really see a lot of difference between your disdain for guys simply for having had kids that aren't yours, & the disdain you've experienced from guys simply bc you're a stripper. Good Christian girls like yourself aren't the only ones on this planet who find themselves in bad relationships.

DippityDoDa
01-13-2015, 11:18 AM
You are so right. I'm 47 and I'm kind of surprised at all the 30something year old guys who approach me on dating sites. Genuinely into me and not a 'thing'. Some like the lack of games and the directness of a mature gal - and the sexual confidence/sexyness. Funny when i was younger/married I felt invisible. Definitely feel more beautiful and sexy now. Commenting as I read so many posts on here and I love this site. I'm new but love you guys!

Kellydancer
01-13-2015, 11:33 AM
@Kellydancer -- just curious abt your thoughts on single mothers, divorced or otherwise. Are they 'used goods' as well & thus unworthy of finding another partner after their previous relationship has disintegrated? Does merely having a child from a previous relationship (regardless of circumstances) make them 'used goods'? From sm of the stories shared on this forum, many ladies have perfectly valid reasons for ending the relationship @ taking the kids w/ them. Should men be prohibited from having an out when the relationship goes south?

I get preferences, but I don't really see a lot of difference between your disdain for guys simply for having had kids that aren't yours, & the disdain you've experienced from guys simply bc you're a stripper. Good Christian girls like yourself aren't the only ones on this planet who find themselves in bad relationships.

I don't date single moms so no opinion about them (unless they are welfare abusers but most aren't). There is a difference between being a stripper and being a dad, a dad will always be a dad a stripper will not. A dad is asking me to cater to his life and choices whereas a stripper isn't. When I was dancing I never expected a man to deal with any baggage I may have, but a dad does. Everyone should be allowed to find someone new, but that doesn't mean that men who I have stated I never date should harass me (and they always do). Sure there are reasons to be divorced or be a single parent, but once again asking me to deal with it (when I have stated no) does annoy me. However, in most cases I do firmly believe a child should be raised by both parents. I know people who got divorced because of abuse or cheating but what about a guy who claimed he divorced because his wife got fat, is he someone to consider dating?

So yes there is a difference between not dating a stripper versus not dating a parent. However, people who don't date strippers are told they are right, but people like me who don't date parents are constantly bashed. I didn't care that men didn't date me because of it, except when I got used. That would be like me using a dad then telling him I can't marry him. I don't use dads in any respect, I ask them upfront to leave me alone (and yes the first thing I do when I meet a guy is ask if he has kids).

zeke
01-13-2015, 12:59 PM
Sometimes a hole is a hole.

Cashmere Star
01-14-2015, 01:32 PM
Guys "lose out" too the older they get. Men's looks fade (esp because they don't take care of themselves) and the later wealth/status only applies to a sliver of all men. Not all guys can be the millionaire top dog. Sorry to say for a lot of guys who got rejected when they were younger; when you're a loser in your 20's, chances are you're still a loser in your 30's.
Being 'well off' isn't good enough to get younger women, you have to be like a millionaire, and chances are you'll still have a hard time finding a decent girl and not just someone after your money.
Men also have a hard time finding a suitable spouse around their age the older they get, if not harder. I really don't think it's harder being a woman in her 30's and 40's than it is for the man.

It's usually the good looking older woman who rejects the younger man, not the other way around. Guys don't care what your age is as long as you look good. There's 40 year old women who get chased around, and 20 year old girls who don't get any attention at all (me before I began stripping lol)

Also if you're a stripper in your late 20's, you seriously can't be bad looking. You're probably fit (from dancing), know how to carry yourself, wear the right makeup, and sell yourself as someone interesting.

Kellydancer
01-14-2015, 04:10 PM
Very true. So many men think they can attract younger women but they can't. I used to laugh at these pathetic older men on dating sites who would be on for years because they refused to dated women their age. Interestingly, offline I am often approached by men in their 20's who think I am hot. I find this odd actually because they are too young.

Vyanka
01-14-2015, 04:42 PM
I remember when I was 17 yrs old, my BF at that time had a 21 yr old cousin who got super infatuated with my mom (when she was in her 40s at the time), he didn't hide it. Lol. Was the most uncomfortable feeling my poor mom felt(she saw him as a child). He said it, if she ever got divorced to let him know. Kid was delusional. Haha.

whirlerz
01-14-2015, 04:52 PM
Sometimes a hole is a hole.

Wait..excuse me? Wow, just wow.

Unkle Fuzzy
01-14-2015, 05:13 PM
And sometimes an asshole just is.

...and people wonder why I don't like to be stereotyped as a male reader....

invibe
01-15-2015, 07:17 PM
I tend to prefer women a little younger than me, between my age and five years younger is about right. I get a preference for women of child bearing age if the guy wants kids. I don't get chasing women in their early twenties. I liked them too, when I was early twenties...

I have noticed that women in their late 30s who have never been married and want kids can be the pickiest of the bunch. Understandable, they often have made a lifestyle out of passing up the chance saving it for some perfect future. How good would someone have to be to give up the wait.

Online is interesting because people are "shopping". All sorts of things enter into it that don't exist in a face to face introduction. Internet dating might be the worst thing that ever happened to dating. I went on a date with a woman who was more attractive than her pictures (I find this is actually common), and though her profile and texts suggested she was fun and light hearted she was actually really dull and had a permanent try hard fake smile. Having met a few like this, I picture someone glued to various social apps that forgot how to just go out and have a little fun. Among other reasons this is why I prefer to meet women out in the wild lol.

The original post was about women having a sort of expiration date. I think it is a lot easier for both women and men to meet people and date around up to a certain age. The whole social scene is geared for it. On the other hand I think people change a whole lot, women probably more than men. I wouldn't recommend to anyone to wait really late, but early 30s might actually be the ideal time to start looking seriously if it hasn't just happened from dating in general already.

Kellydancer
01-15-2015, 11:47 PM
I tend to prefer women a little younger than me, between my age and five years younger is about right. I get a preference for women of child bearing age if the guy wants kids. I don't get chasing women in their early twenties. I liked them too, when I was early twenties...

Regarding the whole child bearing thing, if a guy is the age where women are generally going through menopause (say early 50's though it can be earlier or later)then sorry it's too late for him. I am so sick of men in their late 30's and up using that as an excuse. First off many women in their 40's can still give birth, many women of any age are infertile and many men of any age are infertile so using that as an excuse is utter bullshit and sexism at it's finest. Basically this is telling women that their only purpose is to have babies. Not very romantic.


I have noticed that women in their late 30s who have never been married and want kids can be the pickiest of the bunch. Understandable, they often have made a lifestyle out of passing up the chance saving it for some perfect future. How good would someone have to be to give up the wait.

As for women in their 30's being picky, it depends on what you mean because I've seen it from different angles. First off, I am often considered picky because I refuse to settle. Yes I'd love to marry but I don't want a man I considered settling for. However, some people (of both genders)are extremely picky. I know several people looking for a mate and when I ask them for their preferences and requirements I am often stunned. Some will say they want a taller man, someone who makes a lot of money (both genders but more women requesting it), someone with a particular hair color, ethnicity etc. That to me is getting a bit strange. I understand requirements in terms of morals or lifestyles, but wanting a particular look seems weird.


Online is interesting because people are "shopping". All sorts of things enter into it that don't exist in a face to face introduction. Internet dating might be the worst thing that ever happened to dating. I went on a date with a woman who was more attractive than her pictures (I find this is actually common), and though her profile and texts suggested she was fun and light hearted she was actually really dull and had a permanent try hard fake smile. Having met a few like this, I picture someone glued to various social apps that forgot how to just go out and have a little fun. Among other reasons this is why I prefer to meet women out in the wild lol.

Online has both its good and bad things but the one thing I hated about it was this shopping mentality. Offline people meet each other and if it works it works. That's not to say people don't reject in real life (I do and have)but often things people reject for online they won't in person. Also, the one problem I had with online was this instant spark and if it doesn't happen immediately. For me I like to get to know a guy first and online doesn't allow this. You either have to be attracted right away or likely no second date.


The original post was about women having a sort of expiration date. I think it is a lot easier for both women and men to meet people and date around up to a certain age. The whole social scene is geared for it. On the other hand I think people change a whole lot, women probably more than men. I wouldn't recommend to anyone to wait really late, but early 30s might actually be the ideal time to start looking seriously if it hasn't just happened from dating in general already.

The problem is sometimes people don't meet the right one until later. Maybe they are shy or busy or who knows what else. I would have loved to have met someone early (and tried)but no connections. I dated and had boyfriends but no one I thought of marrying. I had a great boyfriend I still chat with and think the world of but we were just too different. He's now married with two kids. I know a lot of people who for some reason never met anyone and either never married or settled. Strangely I know many more men who never married (three former male friends, two of whom are dead)than I do women. I know someone who married later (like 45)and her husband is way below her in everything.

I just thought of something and that is how differently never married are depending on gender. The never married men tend to live with their parents, often have a low paying job and often are desperate to marry. The never married women are educated, support themselves and are career women. I rarely see never married women like these men.

rickdugan
01-16-2015, 10:23 AM
Wrong. When I meet dads I run like hell. I have dated dads and never again. Way too much drama, financial and religious issues with them. I like kids, I just hate exes. I also strongly believe that people with young kids should at least try to stick with the ex or at least not try to bother me. God knows not to introduce me to these men, especially considering I'd have to give up church. No thanks, I'd rather be alone. However he does have a sense of humor as he introduces me to men I fall for who have issues, but everyone has issues. At least they can marry in church.

I perfectly understand the theory that marriage is supposed to be forever and I very much subscribe to this theory myself, especially once kids are involved. IMHO too many people divorce way too easily nowadays and the kids are always the ones who pay the steepest price.

Truth be told, I had no more interest in dealing with baby daddy drama than you do baby mamma issues, but I didn't feel that it was right to rule out single Moms completely. After all, what is a good wife and mother supposed to do if a husband simply decides to take off for parts unknown and abandon her and the kids? It happens. Some guys get married and then have kids only to decide that marriage and fatherhood is not for them. So I was not going to rule them out completely, especially if (1) she originally married the father of her kids; and (2) the divorce occurred because he abandoned her and the kids. I was also willing to consider a girl who divorced due to heavy domestic abuse and where the kids' father was no longer in the picture.

This is one area where I think the Catholic Church also needs to show a little more flexibility. What is a good Catholic girl to do if the guy simply takes off? I dated a wonderful woman who experienced exactly that. The guy just couldn't handle the responsibilities of having a family and took off to flyover country. Should she be forever alone? Should she really be barred from communion if she marries a man who actually wants to be her husband and a father to her children? Should any additional kids that she has with another man, even a Catholic man, be considered bastards in the eyes of the Church (though fortunately the church really doesn't enforce the provisions relating to children anymore)?

I'm not trying to make this an argument about religion. Just sharing a few random thoughts fwiw.

Ninelives
01-16-2015, 10:38 AM
Keep searching you will find him, although I know you are not into 50 year old men, I met and married a 52yr old doctor when I was 36, he had never been married and never had kids, basically NO baggage. I found a rare gem, his mom had died 5 years before and he had been sad about it so didn't date for a few years before I met him. Also he had moved to a remote town from 25-40 yrs old and it was so desolate ( but good money) that he had almost no dating prospects in that town. He had always wanted to marry and have children. So my message is, he's out there!

Kellydancer
01-16-2015, 11:08 AM
I perfectly understand the theory that marriage is supposed to be forever and I very much subscribe to this theory myself, especially once kids are involved. IMHO too many people divorce way too easily nowadays and the kids are always the ones who pay the steepest price.

Truth be told, I had no more interest in dealing with baby daddy drama than you do baby mamma issues, but I didn't feel that it was right to rule out single Moms completely. After all, what is a good wife and mother supposed to do if a husband simply decides to take off for parts unknown and abandon her and the kids? It happens. Some guys get married and then have kids only to decide that marriage and fatherhood is not for them. So I was not going to rule them out completely, especially if (1) she originally married the father of her kids; and (2) the divorce occurred because he abandoned her and the kids. I was also willing to consider a girl who divorced due to heavy domestic abuse and where the kids' father was no longer in the picture.

This is one area where I think the Catholic Church also needs to show a little more flexibility. What is a good Catholic girl to do if the guy simply takes off? I dated a wonderful woman who experienced exactly that. The guy just couldn't handle the responsibilities of having a family and took off to flyover country. Should she be forever alone? Should she really be barred from communion if she marries a man who actually wants to be her husband and a father to her children? Should any additional kids that she has with another man, even a Catholic man, be considered bastards in the eyes of the Church (though fortunately the church really doesn't enforce the provisions relating to children anymore)?

I'm not trying to make this an argument about religion. Just sharing a few random thoughts fwiw.

I know a few in that situations (mostly women ironically)and it's an issue the church needs to look at. The ones I know are devout Catholics who attend church and their husbands took off. In cases like that they need to look at it. They are really stuck because they can't remarry in the church and may not be allowed to get an annulment. I don't know if it's because of being active in church but I know far more women than men who were stung by divorce. The men I've met who are divorced with kids aren't active at church or even Catholic. These guys have mostly been on dating sites or guys I knew and most were divorced for a reason. The majority of the single men at church are never married/childless while the majority of the single women are either divorced or widowed with kids.

I think though there differences generally (though not always)between single moms and single dads and it's because moms generally are the ones raising the kids. Many men take off after a child whereas not as common with women. So a man dating a single mom may never encounter the dad but that is rarely the case with a woman dating single dads. Not to mention usually (though this is changing)the dad is paying child support or has the kids on weekends. Very often the reasons I know many women got a divorce are not usually the same with single dads. Yes some single dads got a divorce due to them being the victim but generally it was for other reasons. The reason of course is because many men know if they divorce they won't see the kids as often because of the system. I don't have the stats but I would assume more women are the victims of abuse or infidelity than men. Men are the victims too sometimes, just not as often.

Btw I would consider men where the mom isn't in the picture (like he was widowed or adopted as a single dad)but these aren't the majority on dating sites. Also, generally speaking the single dads I know who had perfectly good reasons for divorce and are decent men aren't generally on dating sites. What I have come across have been men looking for women to support the kids (and perhaps the ex), guys looking for babysitters and guys who are bitter about their exes. I also came across many baby daddies (men with multiple illegitimate kids by various women). None of these guys are even an option.

Unkle Fuzzy
01-16-2015, 02:37 PM
Aha! So dads do have a chance...YES.

Ahem...I'm happily married for 20 years this coming April, but it's nice to know I'm not completely out of the game if something happens to my wife.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I have the heart to go through the games I see so many people, men and women alike, get put through.

Kellydancer
01-16-2015, 05:25 PM
Aha! So dads do have a chance...YES.

Ahem...I'm happily married for 20 years this coming April, but it's nice to know I'm not completely out of the game if something happens to my wife.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I have the heart to go through the games I see so many people, men and women alike, get put through.

Only if they are widowed or single dads (meaning they adopted)but those situations would depend and they are very rare. Honestly while a widowed dad would have a choice he would have to be amazing for me to consider. Widowed people in general often put their deceased spouse on a pedestal so someone like that would not be a good match for me.

xxxGothBarbie
01-17-2015, 01:15 AM
I'm with Kellydancer on the whole avoiding divorced men & men with kids thing. My reasoning for this is I too want to avoid petty mama drama ;as well as the fact that most men aren't going to want to just drop everything on a whim & travel with me or do fun things without wanting to drag his brats along also. Selfish? Yes, but I want what I want. I don't really want to get married or have kids bc the whole parenting /married life seems like such a drag after awhile. You get too comfy, you end up letting everything go, including fun.

audrey_k
01-17-2015, 07:41 AM
Regarding the whole child bearing thing, if a guy is the age where women are generally going through menopause (say early 50's though it can be earlier or later)then sorry it's too late for him. I am so sick of men in their late 30's and up using that as an excuse. First off many women in their 40's can still give birth, many women of any age are infertile and many men of any age are infertile so using that as an excuse is utter bullshit and sexism at it's finest. Basically this is telling women that their only purpose is to have babies. Not very romantic.



As for women in their 30's being picky, it depends on what you mean because I've seen it from different angles. First off, I am often considered picky because I refuse to settle. Yes I'd love to marry but I don't want a man I considered settling for. However, some people (of both genders)are extremely picky. I know several people looking for a mate and when I ask them for their preferences and requirements I am often stunned. Some will say they want a taller man, someone who makes a lot of money (both genders but more women requesting it), someone with a particular hair color, ethnicity etc. That to me is getting a bit strange. I understand requirements in terms of morals or lifestyles, but wanting a particular look seems weird.



Online has both its good and bad things but the one thing I hated about it was this shopping mentality. Offline people meet each other and if it works it works. That's not to say people don't reject in real life (I do and have)but often things people reject for online they won't in person. Also, the one problem I had with online was this instant spark and if it doesn't happen immediately. For me I like to get to know a guy first and online doesn't allow this. You either have to be attracted right away or likely no second date.



The problem is sometimes people don't meet the right one until later. Maybe they are shy or busy or who knows what else. I would have loved to have met someone early (and tried)but no connections. I dated and had boyfriends but no one I thought of marrying. I had a great boyfriend I still chat with and think the world of but we were just too different. He's now married with two kids. I know a lot of people who for some reason never met anyone and either never married or settled. Strangely I know many more men who never married (three former male friends, two of whom are dead)than I do women. I know someone who married later (like 45)and her husband is way below her in everything.

I just thought of something and that is how differently never married are depending on gender. The never married men tend to live with their parents, often have a low paying job and often are desperate to marry. The never married women are educated, support themselves and are career women. I rarely see never married women like these men.

While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree on a few points. For one, a woman having her first child after the age of 40 is a medical risk-- the amount of eggs she has much decreased so getting pregnant will be more difficult, and there is 3-4x more likely chance of having a child with down syndrome than a woman in her 20s/30s. There is also an increased change of miscarriage, low birth weight, pre-eclampsia, etc. If a woman really wants to have a child, I would say forget about the man and get pregnant earlier, when there aren't these risks, since the child is the one who is going to suffer.

However, this idea that men can have children whenever is also ridiculous and just sexist propaganda. Besides the fact that older sperm carries an increased chance of schizophrenia, autism, down syndrome, there is also the factor of age-- will a 60 year old man be able to keep up with his toddler? Will he be there to support his child financially and emotionally? Or the mother just going to end up taking care of two people? My boyfriend is in his mid-30s and is eager to have kids for these reasons.

I think the larger problem is not really whether or not women can have children in their 40s, it's this expectation that society has that if you're over 40 and you are single and you are a female, then you must be desperate for children, and it perpetuates this idea for men that you should only date a woman that age if you want to settle down and have a family. There are tons of women who are not interested in children and are looking for a companion, not a family, and for them the issue may be finding a man who doesn't subscribe to the, women were made to procreate and cook theory.

I think the problem with online dating is that 1) it's too image focused and 2) there's a never-ending conveyer belt of people to try out. I've never used it before but my friends have and I like reading all these articles dissecting it, and I never see anything positive. I'm of the Tinder/OK Cupid generation so it's definitely more hook-up based than relationship based. It's like ordering take out, there are millions of women/men to pick from and most people are scrolling through looking at the picture in the corner, not the words. Was the date or the person not perfect? Well, there's a hundred other to pick from. There's no sense of overlooking someone's flaws to see the good in them, or valuing personality over physicality.

While I understand from a religious perspective being unable to consider single dads, it's a huge population to rule out. My mum married a divorced dad and they have had a perfect marriage, I would be lucky to find someone as good as my step dad. They have had their problems but both were hard to work them out, understanding why they are occurring so they don't repeat, and communicate effectively. He has been incredibly supportive for her emotionally and financially, taken her to all the places she wanted to visit but had never been to, like Thailand, Italy, and Greece. My bf is a mid-30s never married guy and even though I don't have to deal with children or ex wives, everyone has baggage. He's lived alone and been alone for a long time and compromise is something he has had to work on. One of the major reason he hasn't settled down is that he's been married to his work and when not working partying his ass off, so finding a work-life balance has also been a struggle. But he works on these issues everyday and that's why I've stayed with him, because that's the most important quality to find in any mate-- are they willing to work on the things that make them hard to be with, or are they too lazy or unable to even notice them? Everyone has baggage, problems, issues, it doesn't matter if you're single, widowed, divorced, or married.