View Full Version : Do women really lose the dating game when it comes to age?
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 11:04 AM
While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree on a few points. For one, a woman having her first child after the age of 40 is a medical risk-- the amount of eggs she has much decreased so getting pregnant will be more difficult, and there is 3-4x more likely chance of having a child with down syndrome than a woman in her 20s/30s. There is also an increased change of miscarriage, low birth weight, pre-eclampsia, etc. If a woman really wants to have a child, I would say forget about the man and get pregnant earlier, when there aren't these risks, since the child is the one who is going to suffer.
However, this idea that men can have children whenever is also ridiculous and just sexist propaganda. Besides the fact that older sperm carries an increased chance of schizophrenia, autism, down syndrome, there is also the factor of age-- will a 60 year old man be able to keep up with his toddler? Will he be there to support his child financially and emotionally? Or the mother just going to end up taking care of two people? My boyfriend is in his mid-30s and is eager to have kids for these reasons.
I think for both genders it is a bad idea but only women get attacked for it. Men often think they can wait when there are increased risks for them too. If a woman is healthy in her 40's that's her choice and would rather see an educated healthy women have a child than what we have now where over half of babies are born on Medicaid. That's bad, not to mention many of those women are unhealthy because of drugs, STD's, etc.
I think the larger problem is not really whether or not women can have children in their 40s, it's this expectation that society has that if you're over 40 and you are single and you are a female, then you must be desperate for children, and it perpetuates this idea for men that you should only date a woman that age if you want to settle down and have a family. There are tons of women who are not interested in children and are looking for a companion, not a family, and for them the issue may be finding a man who doesn't subscribe to the, women were made to procreate and cook theory.
There are many women who don't care about having families but many men often date either to find a broodmare or a cook/maid. There's the problem. I would consider adoption actually but under no circumstances would I cater to a man.
While I understand from a religious perspective being unable to consider single dads, it's a huge population to rule out. My mum married a divorced dad and they have had a perfect marriage, I would be lucky to find someone as good as my step dad. They have had their problems but both were hard to work them out, understanding why they are occurring so they don't repeat, and communicate effectively. He has been incredibly supportive for her emotionally and financially, taken her to all the places she wanted to visit but had never been to, like Thailand, Italy, and Greece. My bf is a mid-30s never married guy and even though I don't have to deal with children or ex wives, everyone has baggage. He's lived alone and been alone for a long time and compromise is something he has had to work on. One of the major reason he hasn't settled down is that he's been married to his work and when not working partying his ass off, so finding a work-life balance has also been a struggle. But he works on these issues everyday and that's why I've stayed with him, because that's the most important quality to find in any mate-- are they willing to work on the things that make them hard to be with, or are they too lazy or unable to even notice them? Everyone has baggage, problems, issues, it doesn't matter if you're single, widowed, divorced, or married.
But your mom had kids so that's different. I don't so it would cause me to lose so much for what? I couldn't ever be involved with church activities like I am, spend my money on his kids and have to cater to the kids. This is true even if he has kids. Yes it narrows out a large population but I don't care. Many of these men should have thought of that before they divorced or never married the mother. Why should a single childless woman have to suffer for his choices? Yes everyone has baggage but a man like that has more baggage than a childless person does because he already did the kids things and failed so now he wants someone else to accept him regardless of that.
I'm not sure why so many bring up the dads to me because this is an iron clad requirement with me. Yes, I'd rather be alone than with one of these men who (let's be honest)failed at a marriage or a relationship. Everyone fails at a relationship but they have the proof and the consequences. It's not my responsibility to pick up the pieces of their lives, that's why there are single moms.
Unkle Fuzzy
01-17-2015, 11:55 AM
Audrey, if you don't mind I'm going to put some real world numbers to your statistics.
Motherhood 40-45 years.
Downs...1 in 116 pregnancies
Any chromosomal abnormalities 1 in 66
According to CDC data.
But older mothers are less likely to actually deliver with these issues because their pregnancies are more closely monitored and the option abort and try again is often used in these instances. Younger moms rarely get the testing done, and are much more likely to have children with birth defects.
This data is also general population data, and most doncers take really good care of themselves so I would theorize the readers on this forum have better odds of having healthy kids at letter ages.
Statistic MUST be taken in context. I have 25 years of experience with statistics in industrial use, and I know how to read the numbers, and what they actually mean. You must look at the source data to glean the actually accuracy of the results to your situation.
simone87
01-17-2015, 01:01 PM
ugh, the catholic church ( and society in general) against birth control, but also against pregnancy until you're middle aged and married, but if you do get pregnant dont you dare get an abortion! you can be an unmarried mother and we can all make snide comments about how you shouldn't have " had sex with a loser" because of course its the woman's fault if the man takes off! she's the one left holding the bag so its she's an easy target, and lets also sneer at her for maybe using some welfare to feed and her kids and make sure they get healthcare. sorry, just so sick of it
Jay12
01-17-2015, 01:18 PM
I think for both genders it is a bad idea but only women get attacked for it. Men often think they can wait when there are increased risks for them too. If a woman is healthy in her 40's that's her choice and would rather see an educated healthy women have a child than what we have now where over half of babies are born on Medicaid. That's bad, not to mention many of those women are unhealthy because of drugs, STD's, etc.
The overall health of the mother (regardless age) has ZERO bearing regarding the quality of her eggs. I have a grand-aunt who is a dead ringer of Hellen Mirren and has taken great care of herself. She had her youngest when she was in her late 40's...and her youngest daughter was born with Down Syndrome and other abnormalities. My grand-aunt is also a highly educated woman (she was a clinical psychologist years ago). Her great physique, health, and education couldn't save her from having a child with all sort of abnormalities. Her situation is not unique: I can list about 20 other women who also had (abnormal) children at very late ages, and most of them were also in great health.
So, if you think that just because you are overall healthy you have the same exact chances of having a perfect child you might be in the wrong. All those celebrities you see having kids later in life, are spending thousands on fertility treatments, egg donors, and even on surrogates.
@Uncle Fuzzy: your data is omitting women above the age of 46.
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 01:23 PM
The overall health of the mother (regardless age) has ZERO bearing regarding the quality of her eggs. I have a grand-aunt who is a dead ringer of Hellen Mirren and has taken great care of herself. She had her youngest when she was in her late 40's...and her youngest daughter was born with Down Syndrome and other abnormalities. My grand-aunt is also a highly educated woman (she was a clinical psychologist years ago). Her great physique, health, and education couldn't save her from having a child with all sort of abnormalities. Her situation is not unique: I can list about 20 other women who also had (abnormal) children at very late ages, and most of them were also in great health.
So, if you think that just because you are overall healthy you have the same exact chances of having a perfect child you might be in the wrong. All those celebrities you see having kids later in life, are spending thousands on fertility treatments, egg donors, and even on surrogates.
@Uncle Fuzzy: your data is omitting women above the age of 46.
Actually anyone at any age can have unhealthy babies. I know people at young ages who had Downs Syndrome children. I know a couple who has a child with Downs but he has a high functioning strand. I'm probably not going to have kids (though not because of this)but an unhealthy person of any age shouldn't have kids. A drug addicted woman shouldn't have kids, nor should someone with a serious health risk. I have friends who decided against having kids because she was diagnosed with diabetes. Besides, all this talk about older women, why not discuss the idiot men who think they aren't a risk even though they are.
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 01:30 PM
ugh, the catholic church ( and society in general) against birth control, but also against pregnancy until you're middle aged and married, but if you do get pregnant dont you dare get an abortion! you can be an unmarried mother and we can all make snide comments about how you shouldn't have " had sex with a loser" because of course its the woman's fault if the man takes off! she's the one left holding the bag so its she's an easy target, and lets also sneer at her for maybe using some welfare to feed and her kids and make sure they get healthcare. sorry, just so sick of it
The church isn't opposed to people having babies until they are older, they are just opposed to people having kids while unmarried. I agree with them on that because people (including men)really need to watch for who they have babies with because it is disgusting when there are kids born to unmarried parents, only to find out the baby daddy or baby mama had kids with other people they didn't marry and is depending on welfare. People need to take better care of who they have sex with and not rush into it. Mistakes happen, but when someone keeps making those mistakes that says it's their fault. There was a post awhile back from someone who was taking her baby daddy to court, only to find out he had other kids by different women. It's both the fault of the women who had sex with him but also his fault for being an asshole.The church btw does support welfare. I support it for those who truly are on fallen times but not those who keep making poor choices. People can usually prevent pregnancy. I don't know who is opposed to birth control besides the Catholic Church but once again there is the choice not to have sex except in cases like rape. I am aware that birth control fails but in many of these cases they never used birth control.
I feel for the women who got raped, or the birth control failed or even they got fooled. However, my sympathy is low for those who get pregnant for welfare, or get pregnant knowing they can't afford a baby, or have sex with a man they know won't stick around.
Aniela
01-17-2015, 01:46 PM
ugh, the catholic church ( and society in general) against birth control, but also against pregnancy until you're middle aged and married, but if you do get pregnant dont you dare get an abortion! you can be an unmarried mother and we can all make snide comments about how you shouldn't have " had sex with a loser" because of course its the woman's fault if the man takes off! she's the one left holding the bag so its she's an easy target, and lets also sneer at her for maybe using some welfare to feed and her kids and make sure they get healthcare. sorry, just so sick of it
This, Kelly, pretty much sums up my thoughts. I get having preferences, & I get having standards. I'm not knocking that at all. What ruffles my feathers is that you come off as being up on a very high horse when you're lamenting the blight on society known as single parenthood, & esp single motherhood. By your definition, any person who has been divorced &/or had a kid is 'used goods'.
I think the 'used goods' mentality (aka 'you're no longer pure & therefore beneath me') is disgusting no matter who it's coming from -- whether it's 'devout Christians' to describe any1 whose circumstances don't fit inside their narrowly defined Christian-appropriate bubble, as it is coming from the POSs you've described who view sex workers as 'used goods' bc we are not virgins. Believe me, I just recently learnt that my ex basically saw me as 'used goods' for being a stripper, after yrs of promising me that my job didn't change his view of me. It's disgusting & it hurts like nobody's business. But in the same way those ppl look down on us for 'being sexual' towards any1 else b4 them (b4 even meeting them! *gasp*), you're dismissing an entire (& at this stage, huge) demographic bc they were so inconsiderate as to have an entire life b4 you entered their picture.
You're not the only person 'shit happens to' & you're digging your own grave relationship-wise w/ this mentality.
DippityDoDa
01-17-2015, 01:56 PM
I think the larger problem is not really whether or not women can have children in their 40s, it's this expectation that society has that if you're over 40 and you are single and you are a female, then you must be desperate for children, and it perpetuates this idea for men that you should only date a woman that age if you want to settle down and have a family. There are tons of women who are not interested in children and are looking for a companion, not a family, and for them the issue may be finding a man who doesn't subscribe to the, women were made to procreate and cook theory. the date or the person not perfect? Well, there's a hundred other to pick from. There's no sense of overlooking someone's flaws to see the good in them, or valuing personality over physicality.
Love this bit. I'm following this thread and lots of cogent arguments. As an over 40 single, childless person unfortunately this 'old world' theory of women still perpetuates. Never had kids or wanted them as some of us are just not interested. But yes this is how 'normal/mainstream' society operates. Looking for a mate who at least, owns his own home, does or does not have children and finds me to be enough as I am would seem to be a tall ask! Finding men is no issue. I seem to attract them from 30 and onwards no issues! The trouble is, they may want me but I do not want them. And someone mentioned that hot older women can reject the young ones - i'm concuring that that, as you are right, it is indeed is true. Someone mentioned about financials as well. I dragged myself up from a crappy background to educate myself with no help, and now own investment properties and can 'retire' at 47. So my self esteem does not need a toy boy, and I don't need the guys money thank you very much. But finding an equal? Hell I'm still looking for my seemingly impossible requirements;-) as listed. Just my two cents worth to. But i love reading what you guys have to say.
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 01:58 PM
This, Kelly, pretty much sums up my thoughts. I get having preferences, & I get having standards. I'm not knocking that at all. What ruffles my feathers is that you come off as being up on a very high horse when you're lamenting the blight on society known as single parenthood, & esp single motherhood. By your definition, any person who has been divorced &/or had a kid is 'used goods'.
I think the 'used goods' mentality (aka 'you're no longer pure & therefore beneath me') is disgusting no matter who it's coming from -- whether it's 'devout Christians' to describe any1 whose circumstances don't fit inside their narrowly defined Christian-appropriate bubble, as it is coming from the POSs you've described who view sex workers as 'used goods' bc we are not virgins. Believe me, I just recently learnt that my ex basically saw me as 'used goods' for being a stripper, after yrs of promising me that my job didn't change his view of me. It's disgusting & it hurts like nobody's business. But in the same way those ppl look down on us for 'being sexual' towards any1 else b4 them (b4 even meeting them! *gasp*), you're dismissing an entire (& at this stage, huge) demographic bc they were so inconsiderate as to have an entire life b4 you entered their picture.
You're not the only person 'shit happens to' & you're digging your own grave relationship-wise w/ this mentality.
Yes I do consider a man with children used goods because that's what he is. He has had sex and produced a child. Sure, people make mistakes but once again why should I have to pay for those mistakes when I never made them? I realize things happen but I managed not to get pregnant, so nope not interested in supporting those who keep making those choices, whether it's a single dad or someone who refuses to better themselves. I had men who contacted me on dating sites with several illegitimate children and yes I do consider myself morally superior to them because I know that is wrong. A divorced dad may be the victim but may not.
Hey if it means I never marry then I am fine with that because nope, not settling. The man should be with the mother of his child unless there are valid reasons and with those valid reasons comes financial aspects and drama. It's not the same thing as having had lots of sex or worked in the sex industry. The reason of course is because now they have another issue they have that they wouldn't have if they didn't have kids. I wouldn't give dads much thought if they had left me alone on dating sites when I asked them to, but nope they see a childless woman and they think I'm easy prey.
Unkle Fuzzy
01-17-2015, 02:02 PM
Actually Jay, I used 45 as the cut off because frankly there just are not many women who intentionally try to conceive above 45. Hell there are damn few trying at 40. I was merely illustrating that though the risk at that age is 4 times higher, less than 1 in 100 for downs would be acceptable to many people.
See how important context is in the data?
Jay12, please don't think that I would massage the data to make a point, I really have no dog in this fight, but women should not be terrified of starting a family late, if they are carefull and get proper care.
In these studies they use general population data, if you have a family history of defects, the odds are MUCH worse, and if both parents carry the defect the odds can make pregnancy untenable.
If you want to talk defects, my sister, at 26, delivered a son, with Distal 18q- (De Grouchy syndrome). Appearantly the sperm donor, (I will never refer to that abusive jack-ass as father) has a family tree that does not fork as frequently as one normally should. Distal 18q- WILL eventually KILL HIM, and his care has prevented my sister, a CNA from seeking employment due to him needing constant care. The 5 year old boy does not speak more than 4 words, is cross-eyed, has an enlarged heart, wearsleg braces to walk, had his feet de-arched surgically (needs another surgery), had a stomach valve restriction at birth that nearly starved him, is allergic to the entire world, and is incapable of keeping a schedule and plays until he drops, sleeps til he wakes then starts all over again. He has heart issues now that he is 5, and suffers chronic migraines (fun to diagnose when he can't even tell you what hurts).
The physical issues that accompany his chromosomal issues will end his life at some point....
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 02:21 PM
But the question remains and that is why aren't older men attacked for them wanting children knowing they are probably too old as well? Older men do have risks and they are finding more now because scientists are researching it. It used to be just women who were studied because women were judged by their fertility (because in the past that was a woman's only job)but now with women and men marrying later it will be studied more. I do know a few couples in their 50's who want kids and while I think it's too old at least they can support their kids.An aunt and uncle had a kid with Downs but they were younger (perhaps early 30's)and their other kids were healthy.
DippityDoDa
01-17-2015, 02:29 PM
Acutally now, older couples are adopting babies from impoverished nations. I saw a wonderful documentary on couples from wealthy countries such as Candada, America, Australia adopting Indian babies in a very ethical program. The adoption laws in Australia are shamefully prohibititive but Debra Lee Furness and Hugh Jackman have made in roads to address this. Should we not in an era of global over populaton be seeing to redress some of the global inequalities and adopt and make a different in someones life?
audrey_k
01-17-2015, 02:31 PM
Audrey, if you don't mind I'm going to put some real world numbers to your statistics.
Motherhood 40-45 years.
Downs...1 in 116 pregnancies
Any chromosomal abnormalities 1 in 66
According to CDC data.
But older mothers are less likely to actually deliver with these issues because their pregnancies are more closely monitored and the option abort and try again is often used in these instances. Younger moms rarely get the testing done, and are much more likely to have children with birth defects.
This data is also general population data, and most doncers take really good care of themselves so I would theorize the readers on this forum have better odds of having healthy kids at letter ages.
Statistic MUST be taken in context. I have 25 years of experience with statistics in industrial use, and I know how to read the numbers, and what they actually mean. You must look at the source data to glean the actually accuracy of the results to your situation.
I looked at stats before making my posts and it was something like in 200-300 births mothers 40+ had children with Down syndrome whereas it was 1 in 700-800 births for mothers under 30. I'm not at a computer but will post a link later.
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 02:32 PM
I support adoption and this is something we should be pushing. I know someone who adopted from Korea and another from Guatemala.
SweetJulia
01-17-2015, 02:46 PM
I'm with Kellydancer on the whole avoiding divorced men & men with kids thing. My reasoning for this is I too want to avoid petty mama drama ;as well as the fact that most men aren't going to want to just drop everything on a whim & travel with me or do fun things without wanting to drag his brats along also. Selfish? Yes, but I want what I want. I don't really want to get married or have kids bc the whole parenting /married life seems like such a drag after awhile. You get too comfy, you end up letting everything go, including fun.
You said it! My ex fiance had three kids at 27. I only liked one and I'm soooo glad I dodged that bullet.
audrey_k
01-17-2015, 02:48 PM
Kelly, I'm not trying to force divorced men with kids on you. I guess I'm just coming from the perspective of, being with someone who makes me really happy and them not being at all who I thought I would end up with, in any way, I realize we don't pick who we fall in love with and there might be a really great, divorced dad out there who will treat you so wonderfully you won't mind that he has kids. Or maybe he has older kids and the things you've mentioned won't be an issue. My stepdad married a woman with a severe mental illness that didn't show up until much later in life and she refused to seek treatment; I don't blame him or think less of him for being divorced, it was not healthy for his teenage daughters to be around her anymore and he did the right thing. It's not like we're talking about drug addicts or convicted criminals here, which is how you make them sound. But of course you are an adult and have the right to chose who you please.
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 02:50 PM
You said it! My ex fiance had three kids at 27. I only liked one and I'm soooo glad I dodged that bullet.
Three kids? that's even worse than the guys I dated with kids. One had two and the other one. I didn't mind their kids but hated the exes. Horrible, vindictive bitches who would have gone after my money had they had the chance (and one told me she hoped I married him so I could support her). I had nightmares with these guys, such as having to cancel dates, bring the kids along, cheap dates, no gifts, drama with psycho ex and so much more. That's why I don't get when people tell me I am wrong for not dating men with kids, I've been there, hated it and NEVER again.
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 02:52 PM
Kelly, I'm not trying to force divorced men with kids on you. I guess I'm just coming from the perspective of, being with someone who makes me really happy and them not being at all who I thought I would end up with, in any way, I realize we don't pick who we fall in love with and there might be a really great, divorced dad out there who will treat you so wonderfully you won't mind that he has kids. Or maybe he has older kids and the things you've mentioned won't be an issue. My stepdad married a woman with a severe mental illness that didn't show up until much later in life and she refused to seek treatment; I don't blame him or think less of him for being divorced, it was not healthy for his teenage daughters to be around her anymore and he did the right thing. It's not like we're talking about drug addicts or convicted criminals here, which is how you make them sound. But of course you are an adult and have the right to chose who you please.
When I meet a guy with kids I run. It's always the first thing I ask, always. Even a divorced dad has kids so nope he won't treat me wonderfully because his kids will come first (and they always will). I will have to give up so much and nothing in return.
audrey_k
01-17-2015, 02:57 PM
It's amazing you're so perceptive (and slightly psychic) you can tell exactly how everyone in such an ENORMOUS culture group will respond! Especially since you're never dated a divorded dad or, by the sounds of it, had any contact with them since they are such a "lesser species" than you.
Sarcasm aside, I hope you find yourself a good man. I'm done with this thread as it's gone to quite an ugly and judgmental place :-\
SweetJulia
01-17-2015, 02:58 PM
Three kids? that's even worse than the guys I dated with kids. One had two and the other one. I didn't mind their kids but hated the exes. Horrible, vindictive bitches who would have gone after my money had they had the chance (and one told me she hoped I married him so I could support her). I had nightmares with these guys, such as having to cancel dates, bring the kids along, cheap dates, no gifts, drama with psycho ex and so much more. That's why I don't get when people tell me I am wrong for not dating men with kids, I've been there, hated it and NEVER again.
Yeah, and he cheated on his wife the whole time they were married but took pride in being a father. Dude, you didn't pull out in time and couldn't afford an abortion. That's a far cry from wanting kids and you're a dumbass for letting it happen three times.
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 03:00 PM
It's amazing you're so perceptive (and slightly psychic) you can tell exactly how everyone in such an ENORMOUS culture group will respond! Especially since you're never dated a divorded dad or, by the sounds of it, had any contact with them since they are such a "lesser species" than you.
Sarcasm aside, I hope you find yourself a good man. I'm done with this thread as it's gone to quite an ugly and judgmental place :-\
Actually I HAVE dated a divorced man, two in fact. I mentioned that earlier. I've casually dated other dads though not seriously. I mentioned the hell their ex wives put me through. I have found a guy I am interested in so I am waiting to see where that goes.
Unkle Fuzzy
01-17-2015, 03:03 PM
Audrey, my data was from parenting magazine, and the CDC I think. I agree, I think I'm bowing out of this one, I know too many step parent and kids that get along great.
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 03:03 PM
Yeah, and he cheated on his wife the whole time they were married but took pride in being a father. Dude, you didn't pull out in time and couldn't afford an abortion. That's a far cry from wanting kids and you're a dumbass for letting it happen three times.
One of the guys I dated also cheated and abused his wife. He was so bitter about women and his kids. This guy was a very brief date (I dated three times I think). One of my longer term boyfriends with kids dumped his wife because she got fat after having a kid. The stories I heard on dating sites was horrendous from men who were proud to have kids by various women they didn't support to men who admitted they cheated on their wives. In all of the cases I knew from these men not one was a victim. They either got the divorce or got divorced because of partly their fault (taking wife for granted, etc). People say "what if he's the victim" but rarely came across that.
Jay12
01-17-2015, 03:05 PM
Actually anyone at any age can have unhealthy babies. I know people at young ages who had Downs Syndrome children. I know a couple who has a child with Downs but he has a high functioning strand. I'm probably not going to have kids (though not because of this)but an unhealthy person of any age shouldn't have kids. A drug addicted woman shouldn't have kids, nor should someone with a serious health risk. I have friends who decided against having kids because she was diagnosed with diabetes. Besides, all this talk about older women, why not discuss the idiot men who think they aren't a risk even though they are.
I already discussed the men in a previous post: you're free to examine the previous posts I've made in here. It's true that anyone at any age could have children with severe defects, but the risk is much higher the older one gets: I have a much lower chance than my 44 year old mother. If you don't want children, that's perfectly fine. But, don't go around assuming that if you want to have a child at, say, 48 you'd have the same chance as a 28 year old without the use of assisted technology (like IVF).
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 03:09 PM
I already discussed the men in a previous post: you're free to examine the previous posts I've made in here. It's true that anyone at any age could have children with severe defects, but the risk is much higher the older one gets: I have a much lower chance than my 44 year old mother. If you don't want children, that's perfectly fine. But, don't go around assuming that if you want to have a child at, say, 48 you'd have the same chance as a 28 year old without the use of assisted technology (like IVF).
I didn't say that, I said that there are many factors in play and health of the parents is part of it. On obese woman, someone with diabetes and so many other factors play a part. There are women who get pregnant naturally in their 40's with healthy kids and women in their 20's who are infertile. Sure older people (dads are a factor too)have a lower chance but they still have a chance until the woman goes into menopause.
SweetJulia
01-17-2015, 03:13 PM
Oh, and mine decided he was prolife when he found out how "expensive" abortions are. It was just sad. I'm not sure if he's actually balding or just an illusion cuz his head keeps getting bigger and bigger :D
Kellydancer
01-17-2015, 03:19 PM
That is bad Sweet Julia. Reminds me of yet another guy I dated. He didn't have kids but caused three exes to have abortions. Then he decided he was pro life and protested at abortion clinics. Not because of that but because he was tired of paying for abortions. Did I mention idiot never wore condoms unless forced? after I found out about the abortions I never dated him again. One of the dads I dated wanted a career woman after having a housewife because he figured "no more kids but more money for him".
Jay12
01-17-2015, 07:53 PM
*Back to the actual subject*
I highly doubt that older women are out of the equation when sites like ourtime.com (dating site for those who are OVER 50) exist.
DippityDoDa
01-17-2015, 08:07 PM
I use any and most dating sites and never an issue. Life is good for 'old' ladies like myself!
Jay12
01-17-2015, 09:19 PM
I found a bunch of articles online that say the dating power shifts at 30. Women in their 20s are more picky and it's harder for guys in their 20s to get a woman. But when they reach their 30s men become more financially stable and women become less attractive making it harder for women to date. Also the men have both younger women and women their age to pick from. I was reading some forums where a bunch of people agree :( it seems so depressing.
I'm 26 and this scares the crap out of me. Idk if it's really accurate though. In my case I look younger than I am. I take good care of myself I look better now than I did at 18. I don't have kids I've never been married. My city was listed #9 on a list for America's most unattractive people. Also push come to shove I could date someone who is 50 when I turn 30.
What do you all think about this? Is it true is it harder to date in your 30s or does it not really matter?
This graphic disagrees with the OP:
40324
Aniela
01-17-2015, 09:31 PM
Jay12, that chart is certainly a reality-checker, even if it's (mostly) tongue-in-cheek. Thnx for sharing
gameover
01-17-2015, 10:32 PM
Yes I do consider a man with children used goods because that's what he is. He has had sex and produced a child. Sure, people make mistakes but once again why should I have to pay for those mistakes when I never made them? I realize things happen but I managed not to get pregnant, so nope not interested in supporting those who keep making those choices, whether it's a single dad or someone who refuses to better themselves. I had men who contacted me on dating sites with several illegitimate children and yes I do consider myself morally superior to them because I know that is wrong. A divorced dad may be the victim but may not.
Hey if it means I never marry then I am fine with that because nope, not settling. The man should be with the mother of his child unless there are valid reasons and with those valid reasons comes financial aspects and drama. It's not the same thing as having had lots of sex or worked in the sex industry. The reason of course is because now they have another issue they have that they wouldn't have if they didn't have kids. I wouldn't give dads much thought if they had left me alone on dating sites when I asked them to, but nope they see a childless woman and they think I'm easy prey.
Kelly, you are entitled to set your standards any way you please. However, you sound like you are looking for perfection, or maybe a white knight to ride in and sweep you off your feet. People aren't perfect. If you plan to wait for that, you are likely to be waiting forever. Everyone has flaws. I think those studies that say if you aren't married by a certain age, that you only have an x% chance of getting married, reflect the fact that those folks may have unrealistic expectations, and are waiting for someone that just won't realistically come along.
I think excluding broad categories of men based on "rules" may cause you to miss meeting someone is a true gem. You can't know, unless you at least take the chance to get to know them.
Anyhow, best of luck in your search, and I hope you do find someone right for you.
Kellydancer
01-18-2015, 12:35 PM
Kelly, you are entitled to set your standards any way you please. However, you sound like you are looking for perfection, or maybe a white knight to ride in and sweep you off your feet. People aren't perfect. If you plan to wait for that, you are likely to be waiting forever. Everyone has flaws. I think those studies that say if you aren't married by a certain age, that you only have an x% chance of getting married, reflect the fact that those folks may have unrealistic expectations, and are waiting for someone that just won't realistically come along.
I think excluding broad categories of men based on "rules" may cause you to miss meeting someone is a true gem. You can't know, unless you at least take the chance to get to know them.
Anyhow, best of luck in your search, and I hope you do find someone right for you.
I'm not looking for perfection, just a guy without kids. I will not budge on that, people know I won't budge on that and they still hound me about it. It's not like it's a secret how I feel about dads. A dad isn't a gem, he's someone who has experienced things I haven't. He's also likely to be a single dad for a reason. To answer it again, yep I'd rather be single than marry a dad because I'm not interested in supporting them, coming after his kids, interested in babysitting his kids and dealing with the ex. I have found men who fit what I want (yes childless men are out there)so I am waiting to see what happens with that. In fact I found a few men who all fit what I desire. I wish people would stop bringing this up because they know no way would it change.
DippityDoDa
01-18-2015, 02:10 PM
I’m disappointed in this thread. One of the reasons I liked this forum was the women where friendly, supportive, open minded and non-judgmental. I’m disappointed because now I see judgment of peoples ‘crazy‘ life choices . I may not share your ‘crazy’ ideas but I respect your right to have them as I too have my own crazy ideas on how the word should work. In my youth I’ve had many ideas that I’ve now completely back flipped on to come up with some more new crazy theories on the world and people and how I think they should live. Give me time and I’m sure I will reject, reform and remould these ideas too.
Put yourself in the others shoes. Do you like to be judged to someone else’s standards and morals and societal conventions? No I thought not. Part of free speech is exercising it responsibly not ripping shreds of all the many people we don’t agree with. Judge not but listen to ever y crazy idea for in the end we are all a little crazy ;-)
Bahuba
01-18-2015, 02:23 PM
I have to stick up for KellyDancer here; I know there are lots of great divorced dads but I have three close friends in this .situation and they all spend at least 50% of their time in literal anguish over the custody battles and expense. We have lunch for business and all they do is discuss legal minutiae and what crazy things their ex has done and how their children are holding up well despite that or, conversely, suffering because of it. All three of them have spent years unemployed, hurt their careers, drop your call anytime their lawyer calls, miss meetings and deadlines, are constantly cancelling and changing plans, etc. As a long time friend I'll do whatever it takes to support them, including loans, legal advice, anything. But for a new GF to walk into that minefield? That may be setting her up to fail, and then the guy is bitter and angry at her. IMHO my friends had to take years, in some cases ten years, to recover who they are so they could really love another person. Some women can take that difficult period, and thank god for them, but there shouldn't be any shame in saying you don't want to navigate those waters.
salzsieder67
01-18-2015, 03:02 PM
KellyDancer has her standards as who she is acceptable to date and possibly have more involved relationship with, as we all do. Some of us may have a standard that most people would disagree with but it is what it is. Which brings me back to the original post. I would never date anyone under 25, even when I was that age. While nice to look at, especially in a club, they come with their own set of issues. Older women are more established, they know what they want, and most have a measure of confidence that only comes with experience which can be an incredibly attractive thing. So, no I don't think older women lose out when it comes to the dating game. Being in middle age, while looks still matter to a certain extent, other things become just as important, if not more so when looking for someone to date. Granted they may have some baggage from their past, but anyone who is alive starts accumulating baggage from the moment they are born.
Heid009
01-19-2015, 03:21 AM
If they are persuing the author of any of those silly online articles then YES they do.
DippityDoDa
01-19-2015, 03:53 AM
If they are persuing the author of any of those silly online articles then YES they do. Actually I think it's just the age old perpetuation of sexism diatribe. Women need to be kept in their place, only have value as breeder cows. If they dare break this mould then beware! They are doomed! to be sad and lonely and alone. Bla bla. Stupid middle class mainstream morality of the masses. F**k that shite! Be the Catwoman of this world! Be sexy, free, single, empowered, have your own money and do what you please. Society does not like that! Cos the rest are just jealous they can't do what you can. I know! And this cam life is proof of that - everyone wants to be or wants Cat woman;-)
Heid009
01-19-2015, 04:22 AM
^perhaps I wasn't clear^
I meant that the writers of articles which perpetuate the kind of sexist ideas that women are breeder cows are not worth being with. Also that the only way O.P is destined to 'lose the dating game' is if she chases after men who have this kind sexist of attitude.
squirtbbw
01-19-2015, 06:18 AM
Ugh, I'm sick of these sexist articles. Ever hear the phrase "plankton generation"? I never had until I read an article about it, stupid. Somehow, I'm less desirable because I'm older? Puhleeze! I'm 46 and have never dated more. Younger men, men my age, men older...it doesn't really matter. It's about sexy...how sexy you feel translates into how sexy you are.
DippityDoDa
01-19-2015, 06:23 AM
Ugh, I'm sick of these sexist articles. Ever hear the phrase "plankton generation"? I never had until I read an article about it, stupid. Somehow, I'm less desirable because I'm older? Puhleeze! I'm 46 and have never dated more. Younger men, men my age, men older...it doesn't really matter. It's about sexy...how sexy you feel translates into how sexy you are.
Hells to the yes on all you write. 48 and still going strong!xxx
SnuffleUffleGrass
01-19-2015, 10:19 AM
Threadjack/
I've noticed the biggest bashers of liberated women tend to be other women...I work with a lot of younger women who seem as if they want to gouge my eyes out b/c they know I was a stripper. These women are the future PTA dictators and obese crazy cat ladies of the world. Ironically the two girls who worked at my place that used to be Hooters waitresses were perfectly ladylike and kind inside and out. Funny how life works.
The other issue here is that marriage as it's been...is an outdated idea. Why marry if it does not benefit you?
Kellydancer
01-19-2015, 12:37 PM
Women are the worst. While I've been bashed by men, by far more women bash other women. I've had women (not men)call me a slut because I had bought outfits at Victoria Secrets and was looking at them at a food court. These women tend to fall into specific categories and are usually (not always)the type who ends up being dominated by a man.
Vackra
01-19-2015, 07:17 PM
I'm not looking for perfection, just a guy without kids. I will not budge on that, people know I won't budge on that and they still hound me about it. It's not like it's a secret how I feel about dads. A dad isn't a gem, he's someone who has experienced things I haven't. He's also likely to be a single dad for a reason. To answer it again, yep I'd rather be single than marry a dad because I'm not interested in supporting them, coming after his kids, interested in babysitting his kids and dealing with the ex. I have found men who fit what I want (yes childless men are out there)so I am waiting to see what happens with that. In fact I found a few men who all fit what I desire. I wish people would stop bringing this up because they know no way would it change.
Go overseas. Your luck will be better there finding a childless man.
Kellydancer
01-19-2015, 10:35 PM
I actually found a few men here who are exactly what I seek. Going to see where it heads.
Women are the worst. While I've been bashed by men, by far more women bash other women. I've had women (not men)call me a slut because I had bought outfits at Victoria Secrets and was looking at them at a food court. These women tend to fall into specific categories and are usually (not always)the type who ends up being dominated by a man.
Of course, other women are always going to see you as competition.
DorienG
01-20-2015, 10:39 AM
Women are the worst. While I've been bashed by men, by far more women bash other women. I've had women (not men)call me a slut because I had bought outfits at Victoria Secrets and was looking at them at a food court. These women tend to fall into specific categories and are usually (not always)the type who ends up being dominated by a man.
^ I agree. I also feel I am one of the 'safest category" of women to be around: I've been married to the same guy forever, I'm small with no enhanced breasts or booty, I'm older and have crazy, unruly hair. I am so not intimidating! So I don't get all the hate and snubbing:-\
(Sorry for threadjack).
Kellydancer
01-20-2015, 12:17 PM
Not so much now but when I was younger I had so many women who hated me. They thought I was interested in their husbands and would be mean to me. I didn't do anything that would imply that except be friendly (but I try to be friendly to everyone). Like I would be interested in their fat, sloppy lazy loser husbands when I was young, pretty and thin?
amberlly
01-20-2015, 11:31 PM
If kids/step parenting is a deal breaker - rejecting up front is much kinder. Even if the rejection isn't graceful - its just proof it wasn't a good match.
There are LOADS of people who will date and step parent so its no loss for anyone.
And I think the older women aren't sexy is a marketing myth. Its the same version of insult the entertainer for a lower price. That and some people are too blind to see a good thing. Even when its right in front of them.
Kellydancer
01-21-2015, 10:12 AM
If kids/step parenting is a deal breaker - rejecting up front is much kinder. Even if the rejection isn't graceful - its just proof it wasn't a good match.
There are LOADS of people who will date and step parent so its no loss for anyone.
And I think the older women aren't sexy is a marketing myth. Its the same version of insult the entertainer for a lower price. That and some people are too blind to see a good thing. Even when its right in front of them.
That's what makes no sense to me. There are plenty of single moms who'd love to date single dads but so many don't go after them. Obviously these guys often have ulterior motives (usually want a babysitter or someone to help support the family). My profile clearly stated I didn't date dads, I was very upfront but they never got the point.
What annoys me about the whole older women aren't sexy is often these men are repulsive. I saw them online, mostly unattractive fat slobs who thought they deserved a younger women. We don't give it thought when a handsome, well off man wants younger because these guys aren't a majority of men. The majority of men aren't well off or handsome. When I did online on a religious site there were all of these men who were older who only went for younger. What happened was the older men and the older women stayed single on the site while the younger women got mad because these men would contact them. In these cases no one really wins.