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Selina M
01-19-2015, 10:51 PM
^ Honestly though, I feel the same way and get annoyed and disgusted that people breed horses for sports/showing. It's fucked up to me that we as humans are making a hobby out of breeding another species. I get WHY they do it, to win at competitions via a certain bloodline being better at certain events/shows, but it still irks me (and I find it almost cheating when one person can basically buy a win, regardless of rider skill, via an expensively bred horse, but that's another rant for another time).

Kellydancer
01-19-2015, 10:54 PM
Regarding breeders, I generally believe people should adopt but I do know some responsible breeders. What needs to be curtailed are the backyard breeders, the ones that just let their animals breed though they aren't purebred etc. I do understand though wanting a certain breed of animal. I love Russian Blue cats and my deceased cat was one. When he died I went to the Humane Society and found another one. I may have adopted another breed but really prefer this breed.

michele11
01-19-2015, 10:59 PM
^ Honestly though, I feel the same way and get annoyed and disgusted that people breed horses for sports/showing. It's fucked up to me that we as humans are making a hobby out of breeding another species. I get WHY they do it, to win at competitions via a certain bloodline being better at certain events/shows, but it still irks me (and I find it almost cheating when one person can basically buy a win, regardless of rider skill, via an expensively bred horse, but that's another rant for another time).

Yes but you wouldn't own a horse if it wasn't for peoples breeding of them. Showing is a whole other thing and in the cat world no one is going to buy a persian for what breeders ask today if they don't have the pedigree. Also people think breeders are making a killing but the ones that do it for the love of carrying on the line are losing money.

michele11
01-19-2015, 11:04 PM
Regarding breeders, I generally believe people should adopt but I do know some responsible breeders. What needs to be curtailed are the backyard breeders, the ones that just let their animals breed though they aren't purebred etc. I do understand though wanting a certain breed of animal. I love Russian Blue cats and my deceased cat was one. When he died I went to the Humane Society and found another one. I may have adopted another breed but really prefer this breed.

I wouldn't adopt a purebred. You have to KNOW breeds to know why. But persians are known to get PKD and many hereditary diseases and they also are slow and some have bad habits. If a Persian is at a shelter it's there because it was a breeder who someone adopted that sprays or has PKD or some other hereditary disease.

Vyanka
01-19-2015, 11:14 PM
Yes it's definitely real and so painful to see :( I was at the dog park recently and a dog was trying to bark but could only let out this weird muted noise while the other dogs were barking normally, I felt so bad for him & his owners were just proudly talking about debarking him. It made me so so angry.

That would fkn kill me. My sister adopted a dog this year and I love him to death. Like maybe over board. :P I couldn't imagine. Ugh.

Vyanka
01-19-2015, 11:17 PM
I want a silver chinchilla doll face persian. I saw one in person and fell in love. I want a female too. Those are hard to find to find on rescues. Once I live alone again, I'll search again.

Aniela
01-19-2015, 11:26 PM
I wouldn't adopt a purebred. You have to KNOW breeds to know why. But persians are known to get PKD and many hereditary diseases and they also are slow and some have bad habits. If a Persian is at a shelter it's there because it was a breeder who someone adopted that sprays or has PKD or some other hereditary disease.

Sadly, way too many animals get dropped off not just for medical problems but for behavioural problems (real or imagined) that the owners don't want to deal w/, or the owners decided to change their lifestyle & the animal just 'doesn't fit' anymore. I have seen this w/ particular breeds of dog & parrot esp, ppl don't do their research b4 buying & get in over their heads & then throw the animal away. You're going to find hereditary diseases, slowness, 'bad habits' in any breed. Kinda like ppl ... except while we crucify any person who would throw out another human being, animals are seen as expendable. Those animals shouldn't be discarded just bc they are 'not perfect'. It's not their fault they were bred poorly/unscrupulously.

Unkle Fuzzy
01-19-2015, 11:34 PM
My grandparents had an Odd-eyed White that just showed up at their house. That fricken thing was psycho. She would purr and rub up against you, but if you touched her, you had better be quick, you could be cut to ribbons.

Come to think of it, the craziest, and stupidest animals I have ever seen have been pure breed. The real problem is when a breed becomes popular and puppy/kitty mills start cranking out inbreds to meet the demand.

All of my pure breed dogs, except my Pibble, are rare or endangered breeds.

michele11
01-19-2015, 11:40 PM
I want a silver chinchilla doll face persian. I saw one in person and fell in love. I want a female too. Those are hard to find to find on rescues. Once I live alone again, I'll search again.

I have 5 silver breeder friends on facebook. That was my first persian. You will never find one in a rescue. Simbaka persians has a 2 year waiting list and had one available 2 weeks ago and she wouldn't sell her to me because I wasn't brssding or showing. And look to pay 1600 for pet quality.

michele11
01-19-2015, 11:42 PM
Sadly, way too many animals get dropped off not just for medical problems but for behavioural problems (real or imagined) that the owners don't want to deal w/, or the owners decided to change their lifestyle & the animal just 'doesn't fit' anymore. I have seen this w/ particular breeds of dog & parrot esp, ppl don't do their research b4 buying & get in over their heads & then throw the animal away. You're going to find hereditary diseases, slowness, 'bad habits' in any breed. Kinda like ppl ... except while we crucify any person who would throw out another human being, animals are seen as expendable. Those animals shouldn't be discarded just bc they are 'not perfect'. It's not their fault they were bred poorly/unscrupulously.

I agree and didn't say they should but sadly that's what people do.

michele11
01-19-2015, 11:44 PM
Oh and Vyanka, they are either silvers or chins. The only difference is silvers have more silver and chins barely any. My friend tracy has one that's available that's doll face ( not flat enough for my liking). I'll give you her info if you'd like.

Vyanka
01-19-2015, 11:45 PM
I have 5 silver breeder friends on facebook. That was my first persian. You will never find one in a rescue. Simbaka persians has a 2 year waiting list and had one available 2 weeks ago and she wouldn't sell her to me because I wasn't brssding or showing. And look to pay 1600 for pet quality.

I saw one but yeah it's rare to see on rescues. I can't adopt now bc my bff who I live with has 5 of her own and fostering 2 stray cats. She's gonna keep fostering most of the strays from this neighborhood until they find homes. It's so weird how there's a different type of kitten popping every where in this area. So odd.

michele11
01-19-2015, 11:50 PM
Her name is tracy smith on facebook. She has like a 1-2 year waiting list. Friend her, she puts up pics daily. You'll die they are sooo cute. She has the best silvers I've seen.

Vyanka
01-19-2015, 11:54 PM
Her name is tracy smith on facebook. She has like a 1-2 year waiting list. Friend her, she puts up pics daily. You'll die they are sooo cute. She has the best silvers I've seen.

I bet she does. I don't have FB any more.

Kellydancer
01-20-2015, 12:28 AM
I wouldn't adopt a purebred. You have to KNOW breeds to know why. But persians are known to get PKD and many hereditary diseases and they also are slow and some have bad habits. If a Persian is at a shelter it's there because it was a breeder who someone adopted that sprays or has PKD or some other hereditary disease.

I don't know much about them but do know my cat isn't pure. He has the features of a Russian Blue and the personality but isn't purebred. Not that it matters to me since I have no interest in shows or the like. Come to think of it I don't think I remember a Persian at the Humane.

Kellydancer
01-20-2015, 12:33 AM
Sadly, way too many animals get dropped off not just for medical problems but for behavioural problems (real or imagined) that the owners don't want to deal w/, or the owners decided to change their lifestyle & the animal just 'doesn't fit' anymore. I have seen this w/ particular breeds of dog & parrot esp, ppl don't do their research b4 buying & get in over their heads & then throw the animal away. You're going to find hereditary diseases, slowness, 'bad habits' in any breed. Kinda like ppl ... except while we crucify any person who would throw out another human being, animals are seen as expendable. Those animals shouldn't be discarded just bc they are 'not perfect'. It's not their fault they were bred poorly/unscrupulously.

The problem is animals have become disposable, which is sad. My one dog (now deceased)was given up because she didn't match the decor (first family) and she got too big (second family, duh she was a Great Dane!). My current cat was given up apparently because they were moving. He's such a loving cat (too loving since all he wants to do is cuddle)I get sometimes one has to give up an animal, like allergies or the like but so many don't care. I once dated a man who told me it was between him and my animals so I chose my animals.

Eric Stoner
01-20-2015, 08:35 AM
Yes, some people debark their dogs. It's dumb and shows little to no understanding of dogs. Yes, there are a lot of "behavior " problems out there. Why ? Ignorant owners.
Why do dogs bark ? Duh ! That's how they communicate. They literally make dozens of different sounds to communicate different feelings and thoughts - happiness, fear , warning , sadness , excitement etc. They bark to say: "Hello " to people and other dogs. They are saying " Hi " ; "look at me " , "come and play ". They bark when they feel abandoned ( aka separation anxiety ). All of these and more can be worked on and corrected with proper training. I've been training dogs since I was 14. The big thing is you have to learn to think like a dog and to speak "Doglish ". That's more than half the battle. A lot of good and proper training flows directly from understanding certain basics like dogs are pack animals ; you MUST establish yourself as the Alpha male ; they are territorial ; they see you as part of their family etc. I'm not going to post an entire dog training class. I highly recommend Cesar Milan's "Dog Whisperer" books. He KNOWS dogs.

I have no problem with proper and responsible breeding of dogs ; cats ; horses etc. I have major problems with most breeding of big cats and I HATE puppy mills. I had a caracal when I lived in Florida. No Maggie was not declawed BUT she never went into the house except with me i.e. she lived in an attached garage and had her own yard with logs to scratch and a big sandbox for her bathroom . Great pet btw. Still miss her.

I've used the spray bottle technique on BOTH dogs and cats. It's a very effective protocol and I feel like an ass for never having tried it for furniture protection. All I can say is that at the time everyone I knew who had a "house" cat had them declawed. I also use the "hisss" technique with my cats to let them know they are being naughty. Proving once again how imperfect I am.

michele11
01-20-2015, 02:20 PM
My grandparents had an Odd-eyed White that just showed up at their house. That fricken thing was psycho. She would purr and rub up against you, but if you touched her, you had better be quick, you could be cut to ribbons.

Come to think of it, the craziest, and stupidest animals I have ever seen have been pure breed. The real problem is when a breed becomes popular and puppy/kitty mills start cranking out inbreds to meet the demand.

All of my pure breed dogs, except my Pibble, are rare or endangered breeds.

Puppy and kitty mills sell to pet shops. My breeder friends breed for quality not quanity hence why they have 1-2 year waiting lists. I think this thread should be shut down if people are going to be rude and comment about things they know nothing about. Half the people commenting I bet have never shown a purebred and know barely anything about them but I owned one once on my life....

michele11
01-20-2015, 02:26 PM
^ They also won't sell to just anyone. The woman who breeds silvers I spoke of earlier wouldn't sell one to be because I have a bicolor and a Himmy. She is extremely picky to who she homes her Persians with it's ridiculous.

michele11
01-20-2015, 02:31 PM
Also people who are paying 8-2000 for a purebred are not going to be shitty pet owners , let them end up at a shelter. I paid close to 2000 for both my babies and um I wouldn't put them in the garage. Lol. Mine have the run of the house and are spoiled to death as anyone here who's my facebook friend would tell you. Hell their meals are portioned out 3 times a day and their brushed twice daily and bathed once a week. It's like a full time job. I'm done now!

Vyanka
01-20-2015, 02:47 PM
Yay Eric, I'm glad you found a solution. :)

Also, just food for thought....microfiber fabric furniture is usually ideal for pet owners. Not saying to replace what you have now, but if you have to in the future look into microfiber. Good luck :)

Kellydancer
01-20-2015, 03:25 PM
Puppy and kitty mills sell to pet shops. My breeder friends breed for quality not quanity hence why they have 1-2 year waiting lists. I think this thread should be shut down if people are going to be rude and comment about things they know nothing about. Half the people commenting I bet have never shown a purebred and know barely anything about them but I owned one once on my life....

I admit I used to think all breeders were the same until I met show breeders. They were breeding their dogs mostly for people who were going to be in shows or perhaps because they wanted a dog that was the offspring of a champion. On one hand I do think for some this will mean less dogs adopted but on the other hand these are probably people who wouldn't adopt from a shelter anyway because they have a specific reason to do so. Also, I have a friend who owns a pet store (they don't sell animals but supplies)and his sister breeds chihuahuas for show. She only breeds a litter or two a year and they are AKC champions.

What I do dislike though are backyard breeders and those people who buy from a breeder because they think it make them higher class, or are broke and would do that instead of adoption. I had a friend like that who was on welfare and instead of adoption at a shelter would spend money she didn't have on backyard bred dogs. Those types annoy me. I support restriction on breeders though because then the people breeding for show etc who are very much into it wouldn't be punished but the idiots who breed the dogs for fun or breed all the time would hopefully be punished. I had one of those backyard breeders stalk me on YouTube and threatened me. She had mixed breed dogs yet was breeding them just to show her kids how babies are born and to sell these dogs. That is a disgrace.

Unkle Fuzzy
01-20-2015, 03:44 PM
Actually Michele, 2 of the "Show Breeders" that I have encountered work exactly like a puppy mill. They sell only to individuals, never to pet stores, are unlicensed, and keep their breeding stock caged except for 2 potty trips outside a day.

Of my 4 pure breed dogs, 2 were purchased, one because we had never seen that breed available in this area, the other was from a freindvwho had an accidental litter. Harley, my latest was transported to me from FL because I am experienced with giant breeds, and my Pibble was a free rescue from a lady my wife worked with. Her sister purchased Angel from an AKC breeder, and gave Angel to her without realizing she lived in a BSL county with a "Bully Ban".

22lligm
01-20-2015, 04:00 PM
What I do dislike though are backyard breeders and those people who buy from a breeder because they think it make them higher class, or are broke and would do that instead of adoption. I had a friend like that who was on welfare and instead of adoption at a shelter would spend money she didn't have on backyard bred dogs. Those types annoy me. I support restriction on breeders though because then the people breeding for show etc who are very much into it wouldn't be punished but the idiots who breed the dogs for fun or breed all the time would hopefully be punished. I had one of those backyard breeders stalk me on YouTube and threatened me. She had mixed breed dogs yet was breeding them just to show her kids how babies are born and to sell these dogs. That is a disgrace.

Yeah I guess backyard breeders are what irritate me. I had a friend who lived next door to a family who had two pit bulls and just let them constantly have puppies so they could sell them. The poor female just lived to have babies and always looked so sad. That should be illegal.

Did anyone see that news story on Yahoo of a dog that was abandoned in Scotland? That made worldwide news! I wish our country cared about animals that much.

Kellydancer
01-20-2015, 05:06 PM
Yeah I guess backyard breeders are what irritate me. I had a friend who lived next door to a family who had two pit bulls and just let them constantly have puppies so they could sell them. The poor female just lived to have babies and always looked so sad. That should be illegal.

Did anyone see that news story on Yahoo of a dog that was abandoned in Scotland? That made worldwide news! I wish our country cared about animals that much.

Yeah those are the ones who annoy me too. I don't see the purpose in someone buying a dog or whatever when they can usually find the type of dog in shelters but I do get why people do for things like show animals or because they want a specific breed. I've never bought a dog from a breeder, I go to shelters and rescue groups. I look at the show breeders differently because I've gotten to know a few and the mentality is different than the backyard breeders who basically have their female dogs constantly get pregnant by any dog regardless of the breed.

michele11
01-20-2015, 06:15 PM
I admit I used to think all breeders were the same until I met show breeders. They were breeding their dogs mostly for people who were going to be in shows or perhaps because they wanted a dog that was the offspring of a champion. On one hand I do think for some this will mean less dogs adopted but on the other hand these are probably people who wouldn't adopt from a shelter anyway because they have a specific reason to do so. Also, I have a friend who owns a pet store (they don't sell animals but supplies)and his sister breeds chihuahuas for show. She only breeds a litter or two a year and they are AKC champions.

What I do dislike though are backyard breeders and those people who buy from a breeder because they think it make them higher class, or are broke and would do that instead of adoption. I had a friend like that who was on welfare and instead of adoption at a shelter would spend money she didn't have on backyard bred dogs. Those types annoy me. I support restriction on breeders though because then the people breeding for show etc who are very much into it wouldn't be punished but the idiots who breed the dogs for fun or breed all the time would hopefully be punished. I had one of those backyard breeders stalk me on YouTube and threatened me. She had mixed breed dogs yet was breeding them just to show her kids how babies are born and to sell these dogs. That is a disgrace.

I know nothing of dog breeders only cat. You are right. My one friend who only reeds silvers rarely sells to pet homes.(she's a genetic scientist) as well. Also in the state of florida each pet must be sold with a health cert. Costs a lot of money to take kittens to get them here. My friend Cathy whom I got my bicolor from is a cattery of exellence. If you are a cattery registered with CFA they watch you. There are many rules. It is not as easy as buying a couple cats and breeding. Also she's been doing it 18 years and with CFA you have to basically have a mentor. There is so much politics in showing it's hard to explain to someone not in the world.

michele11
01-20-2015, 06:17 PM
Actually Michele, 2 of the "Show Breeders" that I have encountered work exactly like a puppy mill. They sell only to individuals, never to pet stores, are unlicensed, and keep their breeding stock caged except for 2 potty trips outside a day.

Of my 4 pure breed dogs, 2 were purchased, one because we had never seen that breed available in this area, the other was from a freindvwho had an accidental litter. Harley, my latest was transported to me from FL because I am experienced with giant breeds, and my Pibble was a free rescue from a lady my wife worked with. Her sister purchased Angel from an AKC breeder, and gave Angel to her without realizing she lived in a BSL county with a "Bully Ban".

Again, your talking about dogs. Lol.

Kellydancer
01-20-2015, 06:18 PM
I know nothing of dog breeders only cat. You are right. My one friend who only reeds silvers rarely sells to pet homes.(she's a genetic scientist) as well. Also in the state of florida each pet must be sold with a health cert. Costs a lot of money to take kittens to get them here. My friend Cathy whom I got my bicolor from is a cattery of exellence. If you are a cattery registered with CFA they watch you. There are many rules. It is not as easy as buying a couple cats and breeding. Also she's been doing it 18 years and with CFA you have to basically have a mentor. There is so much politics in showing it's hard to explain to someone not in the world.

They sound responsible. They sound like the cat version of the show breeders I know and different than the backyard breeders. I know to show dogs they can only buy from a AKC breeder and go through a lot.

michele11
01-20-2015, 06:20 PM
And none of my breeder friends cage. They wouldn't be a CFA cattery of excellence if they did. Again I love how people in this thread comment on thigs they know nothing about.

ScarletKitten
01-20-2015, 06:21 PM
While some purebred dogs and cats are beautiful, I actually prefer a mutt. I have a soft spot for mixed races/breeds. I've seen alot of mixed dogs and mixed cats that looked absolutely BEAUTIFUL & unique, and they had kick-ass immune systems, too. Mixed breeds creates healthier genes and immune systems, most of the time. It's evolution. Same reason why inbreeding causes malformations, diseases, birth defects, etc. Too much isolation of the replication of the same genetic material. Nature thrives on variety when it comes to reproducing genetics. It keeps the favorable genetic properties, and discards the properties that are not necessary. I'm not saying that every pure breed is going to get a disease, and not every mutt is healthy. But generally, this tends to be the case.

Also, I support adopting from a shelter to save an animal from behind bars. Just because an animal is in the shelter/pound, does not mean he/she is an undesirable pet!

michele11
01-20-2015, 06:26 PM
[QUOTE=Kellydancer;2718173]They sound responsible. They sound like the cat version of the show breeders I know and different than the backyard breeders. I know to show dogs they can only buy from a AKC breeder and go through a lot.[/QUOTE
Exaxtly. There are orginizations that require less. AKC and CFA are tops. Their is a big controversy right now because CFA will now require persians to be 7 generation to show or register. No more exotics, himmy. I agree even though I have a himmy. I can get into a lot of things but the people who think they know would never understand. So I'm going to go relax with my beautiful kittens. Also people who own wild animals ( who know nothing of Persians) don't comment or like statements that are untrue.

22lligm
01-20-2015, 09:45 PM
That makes sense Scarlett! Simple biology.

audrey_k
01-21-2015, 04:08 AM
Reading through all of this makes me miss my cat.

I think it's been said before but anyone who is willing to de-claw a cat in lieu of actual training to prevent scratching does not deserve the joy of having a cat.

Scratch posts do work but you have to begin when the cat is young and buy an expensive one. It's also out of boredom at times. My cat was never a scratcher, but god does he love to bite. When he was like a pound it was cute, when he got older no so much. He destroyed my MAC chargers, straightener iron, and curling iron-- cost me around $600 to replace everything (had to replace my computer charger twice). Put everything away and closed the door when I was getting ready, but he would wait until he could see I was captivated by my computer and bite then. So I got these plastic tubes to put on my cords so he can bit the plastic all he wants his teeth are not long enough or sharp enough to break through to the actual wires. He also loved biting my hands... I started having 2 15 minute play-sessions with everyday and ignoring him completely when the behavior began and it stopped. I'm not going to have his teeth pulled out.

Beyond the medical risks of declawing, claws are how the cat interacts with the world, like humans interact with their hands. I doubt you would appreciate having your fingers chopped off.

Red Velvette
01-21-2015, 07:13 AM
I took my Tonkinese in to be spayed yesterday and oddly enough, the vet's office called us to ask if we wanted her declawed. (We have a Himalayan, and a Maine Coon, and just lost a rescue...none of them were declawed, so why are you calling and asking us this?!!) I did have her micro-chipped though.

Selina M
01-21-2015, 10:57 AM
While some purebred dogs and cats are beautiful, I actually prefer a mutt. I have a soft spot for mixed races/breeds. I've seen alot of mixed dogs and mixed cats that looked absolutely BEAUTIFUL & unique, and they had kick-ass immune systems, too. Mixed breeds creates healthier genes and immune systems, most of the time. It's evolution. Same reason why inbreeding causes malformations, diseases, birth defects, etc. Too much isolation of the replication of the same genetic material. Nature thrives on variety when it comes to reproducing genetics. It keeps the favorable genetic properties, and discards the properties that are not necessary. I'm not saying that every pure breed is going to get a disease, and not every mutt is healthy. But generally, this tends to be the case.


Good points. We had a GSD that had a hip issue, and it wasn't surprising since they are prone to hip dysplasia. Every breed has some issue it's prone to, but mutts don't because they aren't being repeatedly bred to other dogs with the same breed-specific issues. I haven't had any issues with my shelter mutt so far (knock on wood).

As far as "not owning a horse unless humans had bred them", I was referring to how we pick and choose and assign all this value to an animal based on if it's sire was a winner or not. My barrel horse is an unpapered Arab cross, and if I were to let any of those girls know that, I'd get laughed at, even though he's just as capable of running a fast time as their $20,000 purebred horse that daddy bought them. He's worth $20,000 to me regardless of his breeding, but there are some people that would call him worthless bc I don't have a piece of paper. As one barn owner said... "I don't care if someone's horse has 3 legs and is blind, you don't laugh at that horse, because that's her best friend."

Kellydancer
01-21-2015, 12:35 PM
Reading through all of this makes me miss my cat.

I think it's been said before but anyone who is willing to de-claw a cat in lieu of actual training to prevent scratching does not deserve the joy of having a cat.

Scratch posts do work but you have to begin when the cat is young and buy an expensive one. It's also out of boredom at times. My cat was never a scratcher, but god does he love to bite. When he was like a pound it was cute, when he got older no so much. He destroyed my MAC chargers, straightener iron, and curling iron-- cost me around $600 to replace everything (had to replace my computer charger twice). Put everything away and closed the door when I was getting ready, but he would wait until he could see I was captivated by my computer and bite then. So I got these plastic tubes to put on my cords so he can bit the plastic all he wants his teeth are not long enough or sharp enough to break through to the actual wires. He also loved biting my hands... I started having 2 15 minute play-sessions with everyday and ignoring him completely when the behavior began and it stopped. I'm not going to have his teeth pulled out.

Beyond the medical risks of declawing, claws are how the cat interacts with the world, like humans interact with their hands. I doubt you would appreciate having your fingers chopped off.

What happened to your cat?

michele11
01-21-2015, 02:09 PM
Good points. We had a GSD that had a hip issue, and it wasn't surprising since they are prone to hip dysplasia. Every breed has some issue it's prone to, but mutts don't because they aren't being repeatedly bred to other dogs with the same breed-specific issues. I haven't had any issues with my shelter mutt so far (knock on wood).

As far as "not owning a horse unless humans had bred them", I was referring to how we pick and choose and assign all this value to an animal based on if it's sire was a winner or not. My barrel horse is an unpapered Arab cross, and if I were to let any of those girls know that, I'd get laughed at, even though he's just as capable of running a fast time as their $20,000 purebred horse that daddy bought them. He's worth $20,000 to me regardless of his breeding, but there are some people that would call him worthless bc I don't have a piece of paper. As one barn owner said... "I don't care if someone's horse has 3 legs and is blind, you don't laugh at that horse, because that's her best friend."

I understand. I'm sure if I showed my himmy I'd be laughed at because he doesn't come from a lineage of grand champions. I showed before ( my silver ) years ago and the woman were the most cattiest bitches ever. Which is why my friend Cathy want's to mentor me and show with her.

michele11
01-21-2015, 02:14 PM
Also Persians are prone to pkd and cff now a heart condition that my breeder friend is pushing for testing( right now it's only main coons and burmeese). That's why I won't buy from a breeder that isn't a pkd negative cattery. I have only had 1 persian with health problems he got crystals all the time. My gf and my moms 2 tom cats have those. If you buy from a reputable breeder and get all your vacinations on time. Every 21 days 3 times. And the cat is indoors you should be fine. I'd never buy from any old breeder.

michele11
01-21-2015, 02:16 PM
Also. Food today is crap and causing a lot of the problems. My breeder friends feed raw. It's the best and most time consuming but her cats live 15 years no issues.

Nina_
01-21-2015, 03:02 PM
I have two cats, technically. One is mine, and one I'm currently housing for a friend until my friend is able to take him back. I LOVE my cat, and while I do worry about him scratching things that are of material value to me, I will NEVER declaw my baby. He really only scratches surfaces he's allowed to anyway. The younger one, Sheldon, is hell on paws and tries to scratch at my feet any chance he gets when I'm not expecting (he'll hide under my bed for example and wait until I'm near it and then jump out to scratch me. Very annoying cat. My cat is not this way. My cat is lovely).

I will not declaw a cat because it's like torture, in my opinion. It's not just like clipping the nails. Part of the tip of their bone is removed as well. And let's also remember why cats have claws - those are their main defense. My cats are indoor cats, but if somehow through something accidental they ended up outside, I'd want them to have a way to defend themselves, catch food, climb up branches to escape an attack, etc. Not to mention, cats use their claws for so many other things including basic things like scratching at their litterbox. Declawing can change a cats personality. I'm totally against declawing. I'm not saying that I am FOR states taking declawing into their own hands and not letting the owners decide; I haven't researched it enough to have a political stance on it. But personally, I could never declaw my baby. His claws aren't even a problem for me, it's the younger cat that I'm fostering whose claws are a problem (because he scratches at me), but I still won't declaw him. There are nail clippers made especially for cats that can be very useful. Also, scratching posts!

edited: I got scratched by a family cat over a decade ago, his hind legs' claws went right across my cheek went he attempted to jump up. I still technically have scars from it (although they're barely visible, very rarely in my life has anyone noticed them, ever) but I still hold firm that cats shouldn't be declawed. There are many alternatives.

Eric Stoner
01-22-2015, 08:11 AM
Also Persians are prone to pkd and cff now a heart condition that my breeder friend is pushing for testing( right now it's only main coons and burmeese). That's why I won't buy from a breeder that isn't a pkd negative cattery. I have only had 1 persian with health problems he got crystals all the time. My gf and my moms 2 tom cats have those. If you buy from a reputable breeder and get all your vacinations on time. Every 21 days 3 times. And the cat is indoors you should be fine. I'd never buy from any old breeder.

My Persian used to get crystals too. Check the ash and mineral content on what you are feeding him. I use Blue Mountain and Blue Buffalo and I cook him chicken and rabbit.
All natural is good but you have to watch the ash and mineral content.

michele11
01-22-2015, 02:59 PM
^ thanks Eric. I know. I've owned them for 25 years. He almost died. He had to have an operation that basically made him into a female. He still had issues but he lived. I looked into blue buffalo because a lot of breeders say it's grains and by products that cause issues but I read tons of bad reviews, such as a lot of the cats had diarrhea on it and bloody stool. Did you have any issues?

audrey_k
01-22-2015, 04:50 PM
What happened to your cat?

He's staying with a friend of a friend right now (she works for a pet sitting company and wanted to have a cat for short-term... plus this way she gets a cute kitten and I'm still saddled with all the expenses). He's been with friends since November when I moved in with my boyfriend. We aren't allowed to have cats in our building but we're moving over the summer so I'll get it back then.

ScarletKitten
01-22-2015, 10:26 PM
^ thanks Eric. I know. I've owned them for 25 years. He almost died. He had to have an operation that basically made him into a female. He still had issues but he lived. I looked into blue buffalo because a lot of breeders say it's grains and by products that cause issues but I read tons of bad reviews, such as a lot of the cats had diarrhea on it and bloody stool. Did you have any issues?

Blue Buffalo is what I feed my cat, and she's had no problems with it. It doesn't have any meat byproducts, and NO corn, wheat, or soy. It is an excellent brand, I highly recommend it.

Kellydancer
01-22-2015, 11:01 PM
He's staying with a friend of a friend right now (she works for a pet sitting company and wanted to have a cat for short-term... plus this way she gets a cute kitten and I'm still saddled with all the expenses). He's been with friends since November when I moved in with my boyfriend. We aren't allowed to have cats in our building but we're moving over the summer so I'll get it back then.

That sounds like a wonderful arrangement. He has a home and it solves the apartment issue. Much better than the deal my cat got where his family moved and took him back to the Humane Society. Then again it worked out for cat since he got a home (mine).

Eric Stoner
01-23-2015, 11:56 AM
^ thanks Eric. I know. I've owned them for 25 years. He almost died. He had to have an operation that basically made him into a female. He still had issues but he lived. I looked into blue buffalo because a lot of breeders say it's grains and by products that cause issues but I read tons of bad reviews, such as a lot of the cats had diarrhea on it and bloody stool. Did you have any issues?

Only the cost lol. Seriously , my cats like it and there have been no issues.
The only reason I give them dry food at all is for their teeth. 50% of their diet is home cooked chicken and rabbit.

simone87
01-23-2015, 11:59 AM
^ my cat is such a turd, he won't eat anything fresh! i've tried to share fish, chicken, and tuna from a can with him and he turns up his nose in favor of crap dry food. that's just not natural lol

michele11
01-23-2015, 12:41 PM
^ Do not feed your cats tuna or fish. It's extremely bad for them. Also say chicken by product ( if for human consumption is good). It's all the ground up parts which is what cats ate in the wild. Cats didn't drink water either they got it from their prey. I won't do blue buffalo I believe it has vegetables or fruits in it. Cats did not eat that in the wild. I've been doing royal canin kitten( which is the most damn expensive food) only because that's what they were on plus a mixture of natural which my boy was not so for now it's royal canin and I get canned with only meat and they have that as one meal a day. I want to do raw but I'm scared of the recalls . Though tons of the high end brands have had recalls from samonella contamination.

michele11
01-23-2015, 12:47 PM
Only the cost lol. Seriously , my cats like it and there have been no issues.
The only reason I give them dry food at all is for their teeth. 50% of their diet is home cooked chicken and rabbit.

Rabbit is really good for them. They ate rats, birds, some insects in the wild. Mine have done well on chicken too and when my cat had crystals 20 plus years ago a vet that had been in business 40 years told me to do chicken and bottled water( which by no means is a complete diet) but I do like chicken. A lot of my breeder friends do venison. Not really sure about that and duck. I'd do duck, rabbit or chicken but then you still need to supplement so their diet is complete. I think we should do a picture thread. There's a pic of mine in ladies only somewhere when he was about 3 months old. He's almost 8 months now.

ScarletKitten
01-24-2015, 01:41 AM
Cats didn't drink water either they got it from their prey.

Cats in the wild DO drink water. They do get alot of the water content from their prey, but they also drink water naturally, make no mistake about that.