View Full Version : A cam girl teases a pizza guy, and then reality sets in...
justanothercamgirl
01-17-2015, 09:43 AM
I was raised knowing my rights and to never expect a man to rape me but now that I live over here this first comment of your is very true for me. Still Im stubborn and I play by my own rules and choose to expect more from others.
The second comment is bullshit though. It comes because there isnt a strong enough punishment. These men are not held accountable for their actions, they are not shamed for their actions so they know they can get away with it. Men know it is wrong and they are raised to know it is wrong! The laws need to be changed so that men know that one wrong step and we can nail their asses to the wall. I was once told in England that if a guy touched me and I pepper sprayed him I would go to jail for assault with a weapon. Women here dont have the right to defend their person (Unlike in America there is not a self defense law in most countries) and our behavior before the event is admissible as evidence to show that the guilty party is not responsible for his action. Change the law to reflect a woman right!! Its a civil rights issue and nothing more! Luckily this is changing but until the law makers start to make examples of men who rape and punish them accordingly the problem will continue.
^^ This exactly! Time to stop making excuses for these sickos. We need more power to enforce that law. It wont stop them but it slows them down a lot!
To me, this is the heart of the matter.
Instead of saying, "We need to protect ourselves because society encourages men to rape us and we can't blame them because of society's message to them."
We should be saying, "Why the hell is society's justice system not properly protecting women and holding men accountable for their crimes? Why can a man go to jail longer for committing a crime on this computer that costs a company millions of dollars then a man who rapes a women? Do we as a society really care more about corporations then people?
But in order for us to get to that point in society, we as individuals have got to start holding rapists personally responsible for their crimes. Regardless of society upbringing, just like every other person who commits a crime rapists know the difference between right and wrong.
If we allow them a blank check on their behaviour is it really such a surprise that the consequence they face in a court of law are so minimal?
Sunnylexie
01-17-2015, 09:56 AM
^ Not to state the obvious here, but how were you not aware that this was not okay? I don' t mean to attack you, I'm genuinely trying to understand why you were under the impression that No doesn't mean No and that it is acceptable to pressure someone into sex.
Easy. I got the impression from my previous partners doing the forementioned things (having sex with a sleeping person or ignoring a "no" a because of being sure the partner's gonna like it or thinking being married entitles one to sex with their partner anytime) on a regular basis and also from movies and literature presenting the first two certainly rapey things as romantic. Really. I had no idea of these being wrong until I got my ass on Tumblr. If it wasn't for feminist articles in my feed, I'd still be doing that. Long live Tumblr.
justanothercamgirl
01-17-2015, 09:59 AM
I forgot to add that giving rapists this 'blank check' on their behaviour in a way that we don't give to other types of criminals is the essence of slut-shaming.
If someone breaks into someone else's house.....you aren't going to hear someone say to them, "Well you shouldn't of had such nice stuff. We all know that there are poor people in the world who don't have nice stuff. So, of course they got jealous. Can you blame them? They can't help themselves. Look at all the messages on TV that tell you that you need to have nice stuff so people will love and respect you."
If they were dumb enough to forget to lock their door they are going to hear, "Well, that was fucking dumb of you. Where the fuck was your head?"
It isn't going to end with a huge discussion on the socio-ecomonical struggles of poor people and whether or not society is at fault for their stealing.
justanothercamgirl
01-17-2015, 10:13 AM
Easy. I got the impression from my previous partners who did the forementioned things (having sex with a sleeping person or ignoring a "no" a because of being sure the partner's gonna like it or thinking being married entitles one to sex with their partner anytime) on a regular basis and also from movies and literature presenting the first two certainly rapey things as romantic. Really. I had no idea of these being wrong until I got my ass on Tumblr.
You are right. It is easy. I got those messages too and there is no doubt in my mind that they completely fucked me over. I can promise you that you weren't the only one to fall for it. We are definitely in the same club on that one. (*gentle hugs*)
That whole 'rapey as romantic' thing in movies thing has always freaked me out.
I mean, a guy messed up with a girl because he was an asshole and his need for redemption from being an asshole is so important that they completely trump the girls and he either stalks the shit out of her and/or ruins her wedding and then she REWARDS him for being such a selfish and self-absorbed and/or creepy asshole by telling him that she loves him too?
http://media.giphy.com/media/qIdI1mBQjcw80/giphy.gif
EvaAve
01-17-2015, 10:24 AM
I am sorry, but she answered the door naked. She should have expected some sexual attention. Any man who opens the door to a naked woman is going to think something sexual and assume she wants to show off in some way.
I do not think the man was too out of line here. He was very pushy and could have left sooner than he did, but he saw a woman open the door up to him naked. Of course he was going to be flirty. It is not like he tried to molest her or anything.
Well at least she knows not to do that now and it could have went a lot worse than it did. Girls do too many things to try to get attention.
chickchick8182
01-17-2015, 10:33 AM
Easy. I got the impression from my previous partners doing the forementioned things (having sex with a sleeping person or ignoring a "no" a because of being sure the partner's gonna like it or thinking being married entitles one to sex with their partner anytime) on a regular basis and also from movies and literature presenting the first two certainly rapey things as romantic. Really. I had no idea of these being wrong until I got my ass on Tumblr. If it wasn't for feminist articles in my feed, I'd still be doing that. Long live Tumblr.
I can understand this. It's easy to get wrapped up in the romantic fantasy projected to us through literature and movies. Early traumatic experiences in my life always made me afraid of anything sexual when I was younger, so I've always been that annoying girl that asks a million times if " ect. ect is okay", "do you mind if I do this" and the like. Which sucks in itself, because even after 18 years I still get nervous sexually with SO, totally making me want to kill rapists/molesters worldwide bc it really is life long damage.
Marina Starr
01-17-2015, 10:37 AM
To me it's more of a crying out for help! People do many things when they are broken or battered in spirit! Happy, secure and confident people don't need to seek attention. #beautifulthingsdontaskforattention
Girls do too many things to try to get attention.
TheBrownFox
01-17-2015, 11:36 AM
This conversation makes me think of this woman I know whose teenage son was badly beaten by 3 or 4 guys over a pair of sneakers he was wearing. I wonder if she and her son had to hear "Well, he shouldn't have been wearing nice sneakers" from people. Smh. I hope not. The good news is that they found the guys who attacked him, and they were charged as adults.
Sorry for the threadjack.
hyori
01-17-2015, 12:42 PM
Someone is walking around with a $50 bill hanging out of their pocket and you could easily take it from them without them having any idea. Do you do it? You are in an elevator with a really hot guy that you are totally hot for eg. Hugh Jackman, do you spontaneously hump him? You see a delivery of fresh bread in front of a bakery that is not open yet because they owners are late, do you take a loaf because it smells so fucking good?
Aniela
01-17-2015, 01:19 PM
I respect your opinion, but I agree with JAC, its a cop out. At some point in a persons life, they have a responsibility to educate themselves and stop blaming their shit on other people or 'society'. Rape literally means sexual intercourse or other sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without their consent. I mean, hello?
Also,
This may not be a popular opinion, but I believe most men (people) who do these things KNOW they are wrong but they just dont care because they feel entitled and even get off on the fact that they are taking advantage of a women and will likely get away with it. A rapist KNOWS they are a rapist whether they say it aloud or not. Those men who assault you in the club? They know exactly what they are doing.
You're goddamn right they know what they are doing. Just as you're goddamn right that the delivery guy would STILL be a rapist & still be responsible for his actions if he had forced himself on her. But where is the girl's responsibility for taking appropriate measures to protect herself? Unless she just teleported in from sm magical land of fairies & rainbows where ppl nvr hurt each other, she knows, just as we all do, that there are sm sick fks out there who really couldn't care less abt her boundaries. That's the sad reality of this world, the existence of those sick fks. Several of us have mentioned being raped or otherwise assaulted when we were FULLY DRESSED. Even when we do 'everything right' we still had these things happen. If we can't expect to be safe when we are 'doing everything right' according to the standards set by the ppl who would hurt us, wtf can she expect when she pulls a stunt like greeting a stranger naked?
I know it's coming so I'm going to ask right now: Where have I said that a rapist is not 100% responsible for committing rape? Where have I said that this girl deserves to be attacked? Anyone who can find that in my posts is welcome to point it out to me. :waiting:
There's a reason we tell children not to get into cars w/ strangers. *doubles up flame suit* There's a reason we not only tell a woman in an abusive relationship to leave the abuser, but have numerous resources to help her do so. We don't tell her to stay w/ a guy who smacks her around bc 'he'll get better eventually' -- in fact, we tell her to GTFO precisely bc he won't.There's a reason we don't take drinks from strangers, esp if we didn't see that drink poured. We all have a responsibility to ourselves to take the measures necessary to protect ourselves. Pointing out this girl's idiocy in doing this stunt, & noting how fortunate she was that nothing happened, isn't 'blaming the victim' esp since, given that nothing happened, she's not a victim. It's pointing out that she was an idiot, tempting fate, & she's damn lucky nothing happened.
You guys seem to want it both ways in these kinds of discussions: 'Predators know exactly what they are doing & know rape/murder etc is wrong … the world is sooooooo unsafe bc of these assholes … but I shouldn't have to take any responsibility for my own safety even tho I know the world isn't safe.'
justanothercamgirl
01-17-2015, 01:27 PM
But where is the girl's responsibility for taking appropriate measures to protect herself?
And this is the exact point I am arguing......she has no responsibility to take appropriate measures.
The only person with responsibility in this situation is the rapist.
Could she have been smarter about how she acted. Hell yeah. Was it a stupid thing to do? Probably one of the dumbest I've seen.
But that still doesn't change the fact that she has no responsibility to take appropriate measures.
Crimes are still crimes even when they happen to stupid people.
brownsugardoll
01-17-2015, 01:36 PM
I was under the impression that the delivery folks had to call their workplace to request a number in order to call people? That's how they do at Dominos around here anyway.
In some places, it's not the delivery man but the order clerk who calls the customer. If there's a problem, the delivery person calls the order desk and has them contact the client. So him not having her number is possible.
True. Perhaps he didn't get lost to receive it or guess it depends on the pizza shop. Whenever, I order Pizza 90% of the time the delivery person always get lost finding my apartment unit. The delivery person then calls me directly. I do wonder if they already receive it prior to deliver the Pizza or the order clerk only gives it out if they call the shop lost on directions. Now, I sorta want to call up the Pizza shop that I usual order just to find out if they only give out the number if the delivery person is lost. :D
She might of even already knew of this guy discussed the plan out to him and just did of a hell of convincing job making it real to the viewers in her cam room. If the guy really didn't know her, shocking that she was willing to risk her life for tokens.
justanothercamgirl
01-17-2015, 01:36 PM
You guys seem to want it both ways in these kinds of discussions: 'Predators know exactly what they are doing & know rape/murder etc is wrong … the world is sooooooo unsafe bc of these assholes … but I shouldn't have to take any responsibility for my own safety even tho I know the world isn't safe.'
I can't speak for other girls, but I can tell you that isn't what I am saying at all.
Yes....everyone should try to do what they can to keep themselves safe but I don't see people being blamed for not doing so with other types of crime so what's up with it happening when it comes to sexual assault?
Hindsight is 20/20 after all.
Wouldn't it be considered idiotic by the rest of the mainstream population for any women to work as a stripper? You could argue that 'it isn't taking responsibility for your own safety' since you are taking a larger risk by doing it.
That's the thing about other people's lives when you've never walked in their shoes. It is so easy to judge them from the outside. ;)
Aniela
01-17-2015, 02:24 PM
Yes....everyone should try to do what they can to keep themselves safe but I don't see people being blamed for not doing so with other types of crime so what's up with it happening when it comes to sexual assault?
And this is the exact point I am arguing......she has no responsibility to take appropriate measures.
The only person with responsibility in this situation is the rapist.
Could she have been smarter about how she acted. Hell yeah. Was it a stupid thing to do? Probably one of the dumbest I've seen.
But that still doesn't change the fact that she has no responsibility to take appropriate measures.
Crimes are still crimes even when they happen to stupid people.
I'm not, & have nvr, said that 'it's not a crime if it happened to a stupid person'.
In other words … 'I'm going to open the door to a stranger, naked. I don't know him or what he is capable of. I am going to deliberately invite him into my house, naked. I know there are very bad, harmful ppl in this world, & he may or not be one of them, yet I am going to turn my back, still naked. I'm not tempting *him* in the least by being naked, even tho lots of guys would probably take my nakedness as an invitation. I'm going to intentionally put myself out on a platter & give him every indication that it's perfectly ok for him to do whatever he wants … but if he DOES do whatever he wants, well, :shocking: it's not like I put myself on a platter for him!'
Your responses JAC are exactly what I mean by 'wanting it both ways'. Sadly, the world is a dangerous place. There's no getting around that. But to potentially invite it in bc you don't believe that reality should apply to you, to deliberately invite it in bc 'every1 else should know better' (& they absolutely should, the problem is they don't care) is deeply stupid & irresponsible.
Not the same w/ other crimes? Idk where you're located but I have lived in the DC area & have close family still living there. Now I'm probably going to get pegged as a racist as well but I'm gonna say this anyway: there are parts of DC that are dicey no matter what colour you are, & sm areas are particularly unsafe if you're white. There are neighbourhoods where you park your car on the street to visit your mates, when you come back you'll be lucky if the only thing missing is the tyres. These are neighbourhoods where you definitely don't want to be walking down the street dressed like you're worth a million bucks, flashing pricey bling. Why? :thinking: Bc it's not safe. Same mentality as this dumbass from the video -- there are things you don't do bc common sense tells you it's not smart. Does it make the person who attacks you any less of a scum-sucking POS? No it absolutely does not. But putting yourself in that situation puts the criminal equivalent of a 'Kick Me!' sticker on you, & if you willingly put yourself there(as the girl in the video did), that's not the attacker's fault. You gave them an opportunity & they capitalised on it.
This girl's stupidity wasn't the fault of the guy she let into her home, that's purely on her. She was responsible for letting him in while in a vulnerable position. We're not talking abt children, we're talking abt two grown-ass adults. I think it's just as infantilising to say 'but she's not responsible' as it is to say the guy wouldn't be responsible for his actions bc she was naked.
justanothercamgirl
01-17-2015, 02:35 PM
^^^^^^
I am not sure where the miscommunication is happening between us so I am going to try to go over ground we have covered so we can figure out where it is happening.
"I'm not, & have nvr, said that 'it's not a crime if it happened to a stupid person'."
I never said you did. But you keep talking about how it is someone's personal responsibility to keep themselves safe. I keep pointing out that it is wrong to blame someone for not knowing something is going to happen.
"Sadly, the world is a dangerous place. There's no getting around that. But to potentially invite it in bc you don't believe that reality should apply to you, to deliberately invite it in bc 'every1 else should know better' (& they absolutely should, the problem is they don't care) is deeply stupid & irresponsible."
<snip...>
if you willingly put yourself there(as the girl in the video did), that's not the attacker's fault. You gave them an opportunity & they capitalized on it.
Okay, but by that same logical reasoning then that means that anyone who chooses to be a sex worker is deeply stupid and irresponsible since it is common knowledge (common sense) that being a sex worker puts you at a bigger risk for violence and sexual assault since the world is a dangerous place then it would an average person.
CinnimonKiss
01-17-2015, 03:23 PM
Even though this thread has been around for a few days or so this is the first time I thought to open it.
Omfg It makes me feel sick. I cant believe she would do that. Disgusts me of how stupid she is.
Wrong on so many levels...
All I can say is holy fuck, shes lucky to be alive.
Omg...
Im in shock .
amberlly
01-17-2015, 03:48 PM
Why was her turning her back on the man so dangerous? I genuinely want to understand. Clearly Im missing something
Thespark88
01-17-2015, 04:01 PM
You're goddamn right they know what they are doing. Just as you're goddamn right that the delivery guy would STILL be a rapist & still be responsible for his actions if he had forced himself on her. But where is the girl's responsibility for taking appropriate measures to protect herself? Unless she just teleported in from sm magical land of fairies & rainbows where ppl nvr hurt each other, she knows, just as we all do, that there are sm sick fks out there who really couldn't care less abt her boundaries. That's the sad reality of this world, the existence of those sick fks. Several of us have mentioned being raped or otherwise assaulted when we were FULLY DRESSED. Even when we do 'everything right' we still had these things happen. If we can't expect to be safe when we are 'doing everything right' according to the standards set by the ppl who would hurt us, wtf can she expect when she pulls a stunt like greeting a stranger naked?
I know it's coming so I'm going to ask right now: Where have I said that a rapist is not 100% responsible for committing rape? Where have I said that this girl deserves to be attacked? Anyone who can find that in my posts is welcome to point it out to me. :waiting:
There's a reason we tell children not to get into cars w/ strangers. *doubles up flame suit* There's a reason we not only tell a woman in an abusive relationship to leave the abuser, but have numerous resources to help her do so. We don't tell her to stay w/ a guy who smacks her around bc 'he'll get better eventually' -- in fact, we tell her to GTFO precisely bc he won't.There's a reason we don't take drinks from strangers, esp if we didn't see that drink poured. We all have a responsibility to ourselves to take the measures necessary to protect ourselves. Pointing out this girl's idiocy in doing this stunt, & noting how fortunate she was that nothing happened, isn't 'blaming the victim' esp since, given that nothing happened, she's not a victim. It's pointing out that she was an idiot, tempting fate, & she's damn lucky nothing happened.
You guys seem to want it both ways in these kinds of discussions: 'Predators know exactly what they are doing & know rape/murder etc is wrong … the world is sooooooo unsafe bc of these assholes … but I shouldn't have to take any responsibility for my own safety even tho I know the world isn't safe.'
You asking where her responsibility lies in protecting herself implies that if something were to happen to her it would be atleast partially her fault.
So if I were walking on the street alone at night and I were attacked, I would have to accept my part in the assault because I didnt go through extra precautions to 'protect' myself? That is true according to your argument.
And no in these arguments I do not want it both ways. Yes, there are predators in the world and yes they DO know what they are doing is wrong. But because they have issues, it doesnt mean I or any other woman should stop living their lives because of it. It doesnt mean that everyone has to live a life full of paranoia. Yes, it is important to ensure your safety as much as you possibly can, but instead of being taught "how to not get raped", we should be teaching men "how to not rape."
Thespark88
01-17-2015, 04:20 PM
Also, I am not denying that what this woman, specifically, was incredibly stupid. I said myself that it is not a choice that I would have made personally and I do not understand why anyone would think thats a good idea. Does it open her up to unwanted advances and potential harm, yes, but does that makw their lack of self control her fault? No.
Aniela
01-17-2015, 04:27 PM
You asking where her responsibility lies in protecting herself implies that if something were to happen to her it would be atleast partially her fault.
So if I were walking on the street alone at night and I were attacked, I would have to accept my part in the assault because I didnt go through extra precautions to 'protect' myself? That is true according to your argument.
And no in these arguments I do not want it both ways. Yes, there are predators in the world and yes they DO know what they are doing is wrong. But because they have issues, it doesnt mean I or any other woman should stop living their lives because of it. It doesnt mean that everyone has to live a life full of paranoia. Yes, it is important to ensure your safety as much as you possibly can, but instead of being taught "how to not get raped", we should be teaching men "how to not rape."
I'm saying that choosing to put yourself in a compromising position in sm righteous attempt to 'stick it to the bad bad men out there' is your own damn fault. If your hypothetical street is in a neighbourhood like Alabama Avenue in southeast DC, no, I wouldn't be entirely sympathetic bc that's a very dangerous area. Like, nightly shootings & robberies dangerous, & you would be taking your life into your hands. Predators definitely know what they're doing is wrong. The problem is, They. Don't. Care. About. Your. Safety. If they did, there would be nothing to fear from them, & thus no need for these kinds of discussions, no need for the Safety Tips stickies at the top of these boards. The girl in the video opened her home to a stranger while naked. He didn't break down the door. She deliberately put herself in a dangerous position (regardless of her reasons for doing so), & the stupidity of that action is NOT the fault of the guy. Him capitalising on her stupidity would absolutely, completely be his fault, but if she chooses to hand him that opportunity, that is on her.
There's a big difference between being paranoid, spending your entire life in a self-imposed bubble of terror, & being smart abt your own safety. This girl wasn't smart, & she's fortunate to have not been hurt bc of it.
Aniela
01-17-2015, 04:32 PM
Also, I am not denying that what this woman, specifically, was incredibly stupid. I said myself that it is not a choice that I would have made personally and I do not understand why anyone would think thats a good idea. Does it open her up to unwanted advances and potential harm, yes, but does that makw their lack of self control her fault? No.
No one is saying that another person's lack of self-control is her fault. It's been stated repeatedly that had the guy tried to hurt her, that's 100% HIS fault. Her fault, if you want to call it that -- or maybe 'naïveté' would be more charitable -- was in taking the major gamble that the guy on the other side of the door WOULDN'T be the kind of person to just help himself.
Thespark88
01-17-2015, 04:38 PM
You and I will have to just agree to disagree because no matter how you word it, youre victim blaming.
KimKlass
01-17-2015, 04:58 PM
Filtering through all the craziness here so I'm sorry if I missed this- how is she not a sex offender now exactly? If a man had answered the door naked for a delivery girl and started touching her, he'd be arrested or at the very least called a pervert or predator. Why does she get a pass just because she is female and thought what she did was cute or sexy? It's not cute, it's messed up to spring that on someone and it's also wrong to broadcast someone on an adult site without their consent. So many problems with this, not to mention with some of the comments here.
Marina Starr
01-17-2015, 06:55 PM
This thread is getting exhausting and my English grammar is horrible!
http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/t542/apple-sauce38/Negative%20Reactions/feels-%20done-%20i%20cant/icant5_zpsc152617e.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/apple-sauce38/media/Negative%20Reactions/feels-%20done-%20i%20cant/icant5_zpsc152617e.gif.html)
Aniela
01-17-2015, 06:56 PM
no matter how you word it, youre victim blaming.
Who's the victim here? The dumbass who gambled w/ her safety & was fortunate nothing happened to her? Since she wasn't hurt, what was she a victim of, other than her own stupidity?
Like KimKlass said, what's equally fk'd up here is springing a situation like this on the delivery guy. By that I mean, putting him on the spot w/ a live adult-cam broadcast, w/o his foreknowledge or his consent. I don't see a lot of sympathy for him on this front, whereas if it were a naked guy pulling this on a girl I bet nothing would be able to contain the outrage.
So far, all I've heard is that the guy, by sole virtue of being a guy, is a potential rapist, & rapists should know better, & shouldn't rape. No argument from me on that subj. But as you know, ppl continue to rape, steal, assault, whatever-else. That's the way the world is. The fact alone that 'it shouldn't be that way' is not going to keep you safe. That needs to change, via better education, tougher laws, etc, but unfortunately we aren't there yet. The ppl who commit these acts … News Flash … they don't care abt you. They don't care abt your right as a human being to not be raped/assaulted/whatever else. The ppl who commit these acts don't give two liquid shits abt your safety … so why do you want to risk your well-being by tempting them just to prove a point?
Sm1 above brought up sex work as being high-risk for sexual assault. I completely agree, by the nature of the job(s) there is a much greater risk. Do we deserve it when it happens? Fk no. But it's an unfortunate reality, & what exactly is your 'The world shouldn't be that way!' attitude doing to change it? By itself, not a goddamn thing. Again, why the need for all those Safety Tips stickies? I mean, maybe this is just me being a dumb stripper, but I'm guessing the escorts who screen out the wazoo aren't doing so bc they've got nothing better to do w/ their time. I've read in Camming Connection from girls who worried abt customers being able to find them based on landmarks visible thru the bedroom window, or afraid of their location being traced via their IP address.
Most criminals are opportunists. They look for easy, quick hits. Arguing abt whether the mark deserves to get marked doesn't change that mentality, that strategy. A naked woman, alone, inviting a stranger into her house, is basically advertising herself as an easy target, & merely getting huffy & saying 'The world shouldn't be that way!' isn't doing her or any1 else any good.
Thespark88
01-17-2015, 07:31 PM
I am totally done arguing this, at this point its pointless. You arent going to change your opinion, and I am certainly not going to change mine. I truly do respect your opinion, but I am so done.
SarahTime
01-17-2015, 07:43 PM
You are in an elevator with a really hot guy that you are totally hot for eg. Hugh Jackman, do you spontaneously hump him?
Hugh Jackman..... well I mean... I PROBABLY WOULD. haha ;)
pls don't kill me!
Sorry. That comment probably derails the entire serious point of this thread. In all seriousness, I really love how intelligent the women of stripperweb are. Everyone makes some really good thought provoking points. And kudos for this thread staying civil and not having to be locked!
DonaDiabla
01-17-2015, 08:15 PM
I have something to say about this video. Women like that cam model is asking for violence if she keeps letting in strangers into her home while nude. In addition, that pizza delivery guy should have just left when he saw her nude. However, he is the victim in this type of case. She reminds me of my ex-roommate who used to open the door nude when food would get delivered to our home. I kicked her out after 4 months because she opened the door nude to the chinese food guy and he throw some food at her while I was in the bathroom. She did not deserve to be abuse just because she was nude but she was playing a dangerous game. Either way, women like this cam model is posing a danger to herself and other women. Meanwhile, that pizza guy should not stay in that type of situation as well....it could be more dangerous for him next time. I am glad it did not go bad.
Marina Starr
01-17-2015, 08:24 PM
I've read a few posts mentioning the guy in the video is a victim but how can he be a victim when he clearly is enjoying and even making advances at her? Now to me, that is not a victim! If you watch the video closely, you can see she's saying 'No' after reality sinked in.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t94/tsmelania/i65q1Cw3010Yp_zpsb0c1ac48.gif (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/tsmelania/media/i65q1Cw3010Yp_zpsb0c1ac48.gif.html)
Sunnylexie
01-17-2015, 10:06 PM
I think I see where the cultural barrier lies. The western girls view rape as a crime that shouldn't happen to anyone and see rapists as specific people who can be named and addressed and whose behavior can be changed. To them, rapists are the deviant minority and they tend to see a man as a decent human being until he proves the opposite. They speak of punishing rapists as of a real, effective measure giving visible results and able to influence the rest and prevent them from committing the crime. That's why it's natural to them to direct their actions outside rather than do things to "protect themselves".
The Eastern girls view it rater as an act of nature - something that can happen to anyone no matter what and see rapists as some impersonal compelling force. To them, every man they pass by is a potential rapist because they know men aren't taught to take responsibility for their actions. They say rapists should be held responsible and punished but see it as a somewhat formal and ineffective ritual like punishing the sea for sinking ships - because you can put one man in jail but there are thousands left to walk and you can never guess what is happening in their heads; also, you can whip the sea all you want but the ship is gone. So the most logical thing for them to do to get the feeling of safety and something done right is to direct their actions at themselves rather than every man at once (like, wearing a lifejacket or not going out to the sea at all rather than praying to the gods of the sea for good weather).
That's why the whole thread is so weird. The West thinks of rape as of an outrageous wrongdoing of one person against another. The East thinks of rape as a natural disaster one can't prevent but rather avoid or protect themselves against. That's why it's "Damn, what a disgusting person he turned out to be!" VS "But she knew there were gonna be men out there" (like in "But she knew it was raining, she should've taken an umbrella"). Trying to bring these points of view to some common denominant is probably pointless, because, well, these are two different realities.
Magical_Hoohah
01-17-2015, 11:15 PM
I wanted to add to some of the stuff I said earlier about social conditioning and guys being poorly trained by social expectations. Someone who commits rape or sexual assault is completely responsible for their actions, and it's also their fault if they fail to understand what is and isn't acceptable, welcome, sexual attention. I think that society comes into play because it can distort people's values and perception of reality, so that people who are not pathological rapists might be more likely to make terrible decisions and rape someone. Even though you KNOW what's right or wrong, and you KNOW how you should act, and you KNOW you're accountable for your actions, with enough social cues to the contrary, some things you KNOW are bad just seem kind of "normal." We all know that you're supposed to obey the speed limit, and that you can get a ticket for going over, but when you see people speeding all around you, speeding a little doesn't seem like such a big deal.
Most men are not stupid, unaware, or unable to control themselves, and they are definitely aware of the obvious forms of sexual assault/rape. They know it's wrong to jump out of the bushes and rape a jogger, or to keep going when a woman firmly says "no," or to randomly grope a stranger. However, I think there are some types of sexual assault that are in a "grey area" where society sends mixed messages and gives guys way too much encouragement toward bad thinking and bad behavior. Some "grey areas" that have happened to me or my close friends: starting sex while she was asleep, assuming that she automatically consented because they're married, harassing her constantly about sex until she gave in, and ignoring a standing "no" from days/weeks/months ago because she didn't outright say "no" today. At the time they occurred, none of us realized that they counted as violations. Even though we knew those things were bad, they seemed like such "normal" things that we didn't even think about it until months/years later. I'm pretty sure that the guys involved knew they were doing something kind of bad, but didn't think it was a big deal or equate it with rape.
A few examples where our culture makes sexual assault seem like a normal behavior:
~ The widespread stereotype that wives stop having sex after a few years of marriage, so husbands have to beg, plead, and badger their wives until they reluctantly "let" him have sex with her. Technically, that's sexually harassing the wife over a long period of time and finally coercing her into sex.
~ The common idea that if a man wants anal, but his partner doesn't, he can try to "accidentally" slip it in and hope she likes it, or at least doesn't tell him to stop. In reality, that's premeditated anal rape, but most people seem to think it's a bit humorous or just normal guy behavior.
~ Like others mentioned, in films, a man spots "the woman of his dreams" and then pursues her despite her initial reluctance, to the point of being very aggressive or stalking. It's okay, though, because she just hasn't realized yet how happy they'll be together, and it's his job to show her what's in her best interests. The happy ending tells us that this is "romantic" and the appropriate way to woo a woman.
Has anyone ever heard someone respond to these scenarios with, "WTF?! That guy should be in jail!"? I sure haven't (with the exception of JAC, who did exactly that in this thread).
In the case of the video, I think almost everyone would agree that it would be wrong to do anything to the naked model. However, if a guy had really bought into the cultural stereotype that it's "normal" for men to aggressively pursue sex, his perspective might be skewed. He might see that she's naked, and assume that he's found a girl that's already 9/10 of the way to saying "yes," so all he has to do is "convince" her a little more. Even though he KNOWS that it's wrong to corner a woman and coerce her into sex, he would have plenty of cultural cues telling him that men are "supposed" to get women to change their minds and say "yes." It's NOT AN EXCUSE, but I can see where social conditioning might tip the scale and cause a guy that's not a pathological rapist to become a rapist anyway.
So...
If someone commits rape/sexual assault/sexual harassment, is it his fault? HELL YES!
Did he know better, and was he aware that he was doing something wrong, even if it was a "grey area"? YES, I believe so, in almost all cases
Should he be punished? YES - and I agree that the punishments should often be harsher than they are
Do movies, tv,and other social cues teach guys to never, ever do what he did? Umm... not consistently, and that's a very generous answer
Is that any excuse? FUCK NO! but...
I wonder if changing our cultural attitudes will reduce the number of guys that choose to do these things. I hate the idea that so many guys make these choices because they are naturally horrible people that enjoy hurting women. I'd much rather believe that there are educational and cultural issues that can be adjusted to make people more likely to do the right thing.
Vlodina
01-18-2015, 03:01 AM
Here's a little interesting parallel.
If someone goes to bed at night forgetting to lock their door, and someone comes in and steals their stuff... Is the thief responsible for his/her actions? Yes. Did the person deserve to be robbed? No. Was it their fault? Kinda. They didn't deserve to get robbed or indeed ask for it, but they made themselves an easy target to someone who was opportunistic. Robbery shouldn't happen, but it does, and there are certain safety measures we take in order to avoid it and not make things overly easy for thieves. Hence we all lock our doors at night, and pay for home contents' insurance.
In the case in question, the girl left her door wide open - opening her door to a strange male naked, flirting with him. To go back to the previous example, if you don't secure your home, your home contents' insurance is normally invalidated if you get robbed. (However, in this case if something bad did happen to the girl, I sure hope to hell that the police/lawyers wouldn't agree with the insurance companies!!)
domina
01-18-2015, 04:28 AM
is this video real, and not staged? We all know exactly what she looks like now, and that guy too...
audritwo
01-18-2015, 06:37 AM
http://themidnightalliance.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/loud-noises.gif
SweetJulia
01-18-2015, 06:52 AM
Filtering through all the craziness here so I'm sorry if I missed this- how is she not a sex offender now exactly? If a man had answered the door naked for a delivery girl and started touching her, he'd be arrested or at the very least called a pervert or predator. Why does she get a pass just because she is female and thought what she did was cute or sexy? It's not cute, it's messed up to spring that on someone and it's also wrong to broadcast someone on an adult site without their consent. So many problems with this, not to mention with some of the comments here.
Well, we were kinda debating on whether it was real. I still haven't made up my mind.
hyori
01-18-2015, 07:36 AM
I think it was semi staged as in there is someone else there with her but the pizza guy had no clue whatsoever. I am surprised he didn't spring a boner the entire time and yes I looked very closely zoomed. He also didn't go anywhere near copping a feel. And she did not boner up or cop a feel either hahaha. Then I was thinking man, this would be so different if he was really hot...he would seem so sweet.
StacySins
01-18-2015, 07:48 AM
JUST WHY?!?!?! OMG that girl is sooooo lucky that nothing serious happened. I feel sick after that.
Thespark88
01-18-2015, 08:16 AM
Here's a little interesting parallel.
If someone goes to bed at night forgetting to lock their door, and someone comes in and steals their stuff... Is the thief responsible for his/her actions? Yes. Did the person deserve to be robbed? No. Was it their fault? Kinda. They didn't deserve to get robbed or indeed ask for it, but they made themselves an easy target to someone who was opportunistic. Robbery shouldn't happen, but it does, and there are certain safety measures we take in order to avoid it and not make things overly easy for thieves. Hence we all lock our doors at night, and pay for home contents' insurance.
In the case in question, the girl left her door wide open - opening her door to a strange male naked, flirting with him. To go back to the previous example, if you don't secure your home, your home contents' insurance is normally invalidated if you get robbed. (However, in this case if something bad did happen to the girl, I sure hope to hell that the police/lawyers wouldn't agree with the insurance companies!!)
The issue with that is what you are pretty much saying is rob the next person or, in our case, rape/assault the next person. The only way that person would know that your door was unlocked is if they were going to commit the robbery in the first place. They may have committed the robbery even if the door were locked by doing something like breaking a window or, they may have moved on to the next easier target. Teaching people to lock their doors doesnt stop robbery, just like teaching women to protect ourselves doesnt stop rape. There will always be another girl wear a shorter skirt, or a top a little lower, walking in a street a little darker or who had a little more to drink. A rapist is going to rape whether its you or the next girl. We shoulnt teach men to rape the next girl, we need to teach men not to rape period.
MissJu
01-18-2015, 08:42 AM
[QUOTE=Vlodina;2717221]Here's a little interesting parallel.
I have a nice friend. He is the nicest person i know. But he got robbed cuz HE forgot to close a garage doors and turn on an alarm. He lost 2 old laptops and 1 tablet, 1 gallon of gas and a saw. The most unpleasant part was also his ID got stoled nd credit cards. So robber went with his id to the dealship and took a car for a test drive, and ofc stole that car too. After police chased him 2 time and could not catch. My frined's mother recived a call from police and they ofc looked for my friend cuz " he wanted cuz he stole a car" .well my friend himself found who robbed him, and called to a police but they were like. Okokok we are looking, please go away from our way. He lives in good neighborhood thought.
Returning to the situation about that girl. I wonder what would be her reaction or reaction from girls who write here, if the delivery guy would be be hot, sexy stud? If he would be sexy and charming and by the way would try to grab her bob? Or he would rape Her feet...lol
And another If man would be allowed on mfc, and those perv whould tip that she fuck that delivery man for tips.
hyori
01-18-2015, 08:46 AM
Clothing is stupid. If everyone were nudists we would not be having this conversation. Then again, it would probably be something like this...oh she shaved her pubic hair into an owl shape she was asking for it or what a creep, he has a double ball weight.
Thespark88
01-18-2015, 08:49 AM
Well according to these arguments, we would be asking for it, because we were nude while men were around... Oop.
MissJu
01-18-2015, 08:56 AM
Well according to these arguments, we would be asking for it, because we were nude while men were around... Oop.
What if this girl would be a delivery girl...and she will delivery something to this guy and he will be naked, and talk about that he is alone and with a question on his face. And he online for example on a charturbate. Same situation but hey when role changed situation still put this man to be a perv and girl is non gilty.
When i was on a nude beach. Non of those menlooked at me, and not because im fungly, im looking normal. Everybody enjoy themself some had a hard on and some not. And nobody tried to rape anyone even with eyes.
Thespark88
01-18-2015, 09:09 AM
If the roles were reversed and the female delivery person was making unwanted advances against the male customer, it would still be wrong. Sexual harassment/ assault is sex sexual harassment/assault no matter what the gender.
Aniela
01-18-2015, 10:02 AM
^^^^ no one has said sexual assault isn't wrong. No one has said sexual assault is justified under certain circumstances. Where are you guys getting the idea that any1 who disagrees w/ you is saying those things? Seriously, where? *orders pizza while waiting for the damning quotes to be found* If you go back & read our posts, you'll see that all of the 'dissenting' posters -- myself, Cutie, Sunny, etc -- all agree w/ you that the model doesn't deserve to be attacked. You'll also see where we agree that if the delivery guy had attacked her, he would still be completely, irrevocably responsible for doing so.
Thespark88
01-18-2015, 10:06 AM
"What if this girl would be a delivery girl...and she will delivery something to this guy and he will be naked, and talk about that he is alone and with a question on his face. And he online for example on a charturbate. Same situation but hey when role changed situation still put this man to be a perv and girl is non gilty"
This is what I am replying to, she asked a question and I answered.
Also I do see that you are agreeing that the model doesnt deserve to be attacked, but everything you are saying is that if she was attacked, some of the responisibility would belong to her, which is what I am dissagreeing with.
Aniela
01-18-2015, 10:10 AM
Where we appear to disagree most is on the idea that just thinking/saying 'Rape shouldn't happen!' will protect you. Words don't protect you, all they do in this case is define the action as rape vs consensual sex. That's it. Words don't protect you. Not liking the fact that bad ppl exist doesn't protect you. ACTIONS are what protect you, or at least minimise your risk of getting hurt. . This girl's actions put her in a dangerous position. It was her choice to open the door naked & invite a stranger into her home. Are you trying to argue that the stanger should be held accountable for her actions as well as his? That's no different than trying to hold her accountable for his actions. Complete bullshit in both directions, & that's a lot of my point -- BOTH parties are responsible for THEIR OWN CHOICES.
MyButter
01-18-2015, 10:11 AM
Sooo basically... I am not at all accountable for my own actions--even if they're idiotic?
The next time a guy pulls to the side of the road and tells me to get into his car while I'm walking to the store, I should just hop on in and expect that he's not going to do anything creepy?
Thespark88
01-18-2015, 10:14 AM
Of course words do not protect you, but actions dont prevent rape from happening either.
Her actions do not cause him to rape her, his lack of self control are. That is all that matters. No matter what another person is doing you dont HAVE to rape them, that decision is completely yours.
Thespark88
01-18-2015, 10:15 AM
You jumping into the car does not make him a creep, how he proceeds after that does.
MissJu
01-18-2015, 10:19 AM
I wish that girl show up on this tread and just say to us with which part of her body she thought when she did it.