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rickdugan
02-09-2015, 05:27 AM
It's almost like we're coming from totally different perspectives, or something. I am...flabbergasted. It is just so weird how all of the dancers in this thread HAPPEN to share the same opinion, and all of the customers HAPPEN to share different opinions than the dancers! Crazy!! ;)

Imagine that, two sides with differing views on something related to strip clubs. ;)

I do wonder though how many of the dancers who thanked your first post have actually had to sell $40 LDs and can do so on a consistent basis. I club in a lot of places and I'm having trouble fathoming how that could be possible in most clubs, or at least the ones that I visit.

I will be honest in saying that $40 per song definitely crosses my ouch point and my LD expenditures in a club that charged that much would likely be $0. In fact, I would be more likely to purchase a $60k automobile (and the one I drive isn't cheap) than I would be to spend $200 for 5 lousy songs. I make good money and spend a lot on dancers in a given year, but at some point the principle of the thing takes root. I am also certain that I am far from alone in these sentiments.

To be clear, I don't begrudge any club or dancer who can sell LDs for $40 and be successful. Service providers will and should charge what the market will bear. I simply doubt that a club in any but maybe a handful of markets (high income demographics, lots of traveling customers, etc.), or those in which very special services are provided (we all know what that means), can pull it off at that price. Given what gameover has indicated, it doesn't sound like the club he is discussing is in one of those markets and I suspect that the club owner is in for a rude awakeneing. It wouldn't be the first time a club owner attempted an ill advised price hike and I'm sure it won't be the last. :)

newb2
02-09-2015, 05:44 AM
Op, you are lucky you aren't in Australia-you wouldn't want to fork out for the $50-$100 standard dance price ;)!

I was thinking this actually.

In London I'd charge £40 ($60) a song.

slowpoke
02-09-2015, 07:03 AM
This is what the question is about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand_curve

rickdugan
02-09-2015, 07:50 AM
LOL slowpoke. If we have to get academic about it, I think we've moved past the basics of supply and demand and are really having a subjective conversation about the elasticity of the demand curve as it relates to LDs.

gameover
02-09-2015, 08:43 AM
Op, you are lucky you aren't in Australia-you wouldn't want to fork out for the $50-$100 standard dance price ;)!

You are right. I'd switch to a new hobby. Maybe stamp collecting. :)

slowpoke
02-09-2015, 10:15 AM
LOL slowpoke. If we have to get academic about it, I think we've moved past the basics of supply and demand and are really having a subjective conversation about the elasticity of the demand curve as it relates to LDs.

http://www.subjectmoney.com/ARC%20Price%20Elasticity%20of%20Demand%20Formula.j pg
http://www.subjectmoney.com/definitiondisplay.php?word=Price%20Elasticity%20of %20Demand

Or put another way
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/more-subjects/economics/demand-supply-and-elasticity/~/media/0244FA049D3A4966BFA8F12DDC082A46.ashx

Selina M
02-09-2015, 11:12 AM
I suspect customers here are going to the other club now, because the club with the new price was dead. It will be interesting to see if they drop it down to $30, to match the other club.

As to your final point. I mean, I spend 300-400 per visit. So, I could buy some at those prices if I chose to. It's just that at that price point, they are no longer worth getting (to me). I'm sure there are guys who will buy at that price. Again, If you can sell the higher priced dancers, kudos. I'm not suggesting you should discount your prices at all.


The first club did drop its price back down, after a week of customers walking out upon hearing the price change. They went about it the very wrong way (literally, on a whim; they printed flyers to hang in the dressing room 10 minutes before we opened).. customers may have stomached $30, but the $15 jump was just too much. Might have been different had they done $30, then $35, then $40 over a year-long period. That being said, I thought $40 was fine because of the amount of contact people expected (very extras ridden club, I was almost afraid to go into VIP bc of the atrocious customer behavior). These are also the same people who got upset when being charged $15 instead of $10 on the floor... though I do see it from their side, the doormen didn't ever warn people that dances were more at certain places on the floor when seating them.. I'd hate to be blindsided too. Gah too many factors.

Hey, if you spend that much per visit, you could probably partake in a room if you have a particular favorite girl. I can still see it being acceptable then, or even paying her the $40 since you know you like her. However, I get that you could be reluctant to pay $40 a dance just to try a new girl out and then have her be awkward or weird or whatever. Like I said, I do see this stuff from the customers side, but I'm also rather bitter that the standard here is $10 so I'm usually like "Fuck yeah, increase prices!"

Tourdefranzia
02-09-2015, 11:29 AM
Maybe try shopping around? Some clubs in my area have started charging $40 a song, but others still have $10/song dances available. If you live in a large metro area with only 1-2 clubs, then it is just a matter of supply and demand. If there are a lot of clubs in the area, I guarantee you will find lower dance prices if you just look around. I mean, if price is your only concern and you don't really care about safety or quality, I'm sure you can find lap dances for $10-20 a song.

Tourdefranzia
02-09-2015, 12:01 PM
I don't question that you'd prefer to dance for more per dance. Who wouldn't? I was just curious if those dancers who had worked in a club where the price had doubled (in my case from $20 to $40) had noticed a positive or negative impact on there income, and if that impacted club attendance significantly.


I was dancing at a club that went from $20 to $40. My income went up. Although my single dance sales dropped (I almost never sell just a single dance. Maybe 1-2 times a month) my VIP and Champagne room sales soared. The club clientele was fairly white collar already, but now it is almost 100% white collar with lots of high paid employees from Nike and Intel and other tech businesses in the region. The blue collar guys and young college aged guys have moved on to more affordable pastures.

A dancer has to have more game in these higher priced clubs. So just plunking down in a customer's lap and flashing cleavage isn't going to close the sale. She has to provide something closer to a GFE to get him to spend $500/hour. These days I set appointments with my customers for VIP or Champagne rooms. These customers have busy lives and count on maximizing their time with a dancer(s) they know are worth the money. And by worth the money I don't mean extras, but the overall experience of connecting with another person.

The club may look slow or empty in these higher priced venues, but I can promise you that club owners don't go into business as non-profit organizations. There are plenty of customers who walk in the door, meet their ATF and immediately head back to the Champagne room with her. You'd never see him sitting at the stage or bar.

My experience may not be typical, but I've noticed that the big spending customers are also low maintenance customers. They don't blow my phone up. They don't try to push me into doing something I'm uncomfortable with (extras, OTC), and they never gripe about the prices. Snuggling in the champagne room for 30-60 minutes is way easier on my body than performing lap dance after lap dance.

This also gives me the freedom to walk away from a customer who doesn't value my performance. I don't negotiate on price. When a customer tries to dicker on price, I thank him for coming into the club, but excuse myself so that I can get back to work. Sometimes they agree to pay the quoted price after I show them I'm not going to budge. Mostly, I just never see them in the club again.

Tourdefranzia
02-09-2015, 12:14 PM
40 bucks a dance is ridiculous. I don't know how the club thinks they're gonna get a lot of people to buy those.

C'mon now. You live in a city with 93 strip clubs, of which 4 charge $40/song for dances. Another small handful charges $30 and the rest charge $10-20. You've got at least 50 venues that offer dances in your price range. What are you complaining about?

Sophia_Starina
02-09-2015, 12:33 PM
Dance prices are and have been about $20 for a really long time.

The problem is that dance prices haven't kept up with inflation... at all.

$20 in 2000 isn't the same as $20 in 2015. But since clubs opted to keep it simple with easy payment (one $20 bill per dance, no counting in the dark, staus quo), the cost of dances hasn't kept up.

Now, some clubs are raising prices.

Rather than making dances $20, then $22, then $25, etc. and increasing then price over time… the clubs say SURPRISE! $40 per dance!

Well, that is going to turn customers off. That is going to make the creepy guys start asking "what do I get for that kind of money?”

That is going to be tough on everyone involved… because a price JUMP that major isn’t ideal.

But on a certain level, it is keeping up with what it costs.

A gourmet coffee and some snacks can easily cost $20 at a nice cafe. I’d hate for my talent and time to be worth LESS than a berry tart, a scone, and an Espresso Venti Soy Mocha Something Something.

I'm a warm, living, breathing, dancing, naked, beautiful human being... I live out your fantasies, I provide entertainment, I am one-on-one, with you, without clothing.... Why shouldn't my attention/affection/company cost more than a random brunch?

Do dancers deserve more than $20 if we are keeping up with inflation?

YES!


40623

rickdugan
02-09-2015, 01:20 PM
Easy there Unkle, lol. I didn't see anybody in this thread call anyone else a low-life piece of trash, a second class citizen or anything similar. This topic is understandably sensitive for both sides of the tip rail. Some guys get frustrated when they see what they believe are very expensive prices for the LDs that they enjoy and some girls who haven't seen the price go up since they started dancing are frustrated that they cannot sell their services for more. We are all operating under the same economic realities, including a disconnect between wage growth and inflation, which IMHO is exacerbating the sensitives on both sides. Net-net, I think we can understand each other's point of view enough not to take things too personally.

Overall, I think that this has been a very interesting conversation and I'm glad that gameover started the thread. Now while I may not agree that raising prices a lot would be in the best interest of anyone, including the dancers, some of them clearly have differing views and I have appreciated their thoughts on the matter.

oldster
02-09-2015, 01:41 PM
Dances have been 20 bucks for as long as I can remember

IF they went up, it would not affect me much, since I rarely buy just one because I only get dances from women I find interesting. Even when I do a 'favor' if you will, for a dancer I have become friendly with but don't really find interesting, I buy 2 or 3

It would be interesting to see what would happen to dancer income with intelligently raised dance prices.

When there are champagne rooms involved, it starts to become string of dances vs champagne room, so there may be a club interest in raising dance prices to drive customers into the more profitable rooms

In all business, failure to keep prices current results in resistance once a correction is made

gameover
02-09-2015, 01:52 PM
Easy there Unkle, lol. I didn't see anybody in this thread call anyone else a low-life piece of trash, a second class citizen or anything similar. This topic is understandably sensitive for both sides of the tip rail. Some guys get frustrated when they see what they believe are very expensive prices for the LDs that they enjoy and some girls who haven't seen the price go up since they started dancing are frustrated that they cannot sell their services for more. We are all operating under the same economic realities, including a disconnect between wage growth and inflation, which IMHO is exacerbating the sensitives on both sides. Net-net, I think we can understand each other's point of view enough not to take things too personally.

Overall, I think that this has been a very interesting conversation and I'm glad that gameover started the thread. Now while I may not agree that raising prices a lot would be in the best interest of anyone, including the dancers, some of them clearly have differing views and I have appreciated their thoughts on the matter.

Well, an earlier post on the thread likened me to a "porn hobo", but I won't take offense, since my initial post could have been worded more neutrally. So, I'll accept that as collateral damage. :)

gameover
02-09-2015, 01:56 PM
Maybe try shopping around? Some clubs in my area have started charging $40 a song, but others still have $10/song dances available. If you live in a large metro area with only 1-2 clubs, then it is just a matter of supply and demand. If there are a lot of clubs in the area, I guarantee you will find lower dance prices if you just look around. I mean, if price is your only concern and you don't really care about safety or quality, I'm sure you can find lap dances for $10-20 a song.

Except for those two, all of the other decent clubs charge $20, which is what I'm used to. I actually really like one of them, so I'm good. If I really feel like hobo-ing, there are a fair number of dives that only charge $10 that I can always go to. :)

musik22
02-09-2015, 02:00 PM
@tourdefeanzia- I'm not complaining. I'm simply stating what I feel about lapdances that cost 40 bucks. I have a plethora of clubs to choose from, so I usually avoid the places that charges 40 bucks for the dances. Like you said most of them charge around 20 bucks for the dances, so I usually go to those places. I don't know of any Portland club that charges 10 bucks for dances, if you know about any of those, let me know, I'd love to check it out. The lowest I know of right now in Portland is 20 bucks.

gameover
02-09-2015, 02:01 PM
I was dancing at a club that went from $20 to $40. My income went up. Although my single dance sales dropped (I almost never sell just a single dance. Maybe 1-2 times a month) my VIP and Champagne room sales soared. The club clientele was fairly white collar already, but now it is almost 100% white collar with lots of high paid employees from Nike and Intel and other tech businesses in the region. The blue collar guys and young college aged guys have moved on to more affordable pastures.

A dancer has to have more game in these higher priced clubs. So just plunking down in a customer's lap and flashing cleavage isn't going to close the sale. She has to provide something closer to a GFE to get him to spend $500/hour. These days I set appointments with my customers for VIP or Champagne rooms. These customers have busy lives and count on maximizing their time with a dancer(s) they know are worth the money. And by worth the money I don't mean extras, but the overall experience of connecting with another person.

The club may look slow or empty in these higher priced venues, but I can promise you that club owners don't go into business as non-profit organizations. There are plenty of customers who walk in the door, meet their ATF and immediately head back to the Champagne room with her. You'd never see him sitting at the stage or bar.

My experience may not be typical, but I've noticed that the big spending customers are also low maintenance customers. They don't blow my phone up. They don't try to push me into doing something I'm uncomfortable with (extras, OTC), and they never gripe about the prices. Snuggling in the champagne room for 30-60 minutes is way easier on my body than performing lap dance after lap dance.

This also gives me the freedom to walk away from a customer who doesn't value my performance. I don't negotiate on price. When a customer tries to dicker on price, I thank him for coming into the club, but excuse myself so that I can get back to work. Sometimes they agree to pay the quoted price after I show them I'm not going to budge. Mostly, I just never see them in the club again.

I'm glad it worked out for you. Maybe they are in the champagne room, like you suggested. I just know that in the main stage area, it was kind of a ghost town. I mean, I don't want the place to be full of partying frat boys, but it's nice to have a little buzz in the room.

Kellydancer
02-09-2015, 02:21 PM
Dance prices are and have been about $20 for a really long time.

The problem is that dance prices haven't kept up with inflation... at all.

$20 in 2000 isn't the same as $20 in 2015. But since clubs opted to keep it simple with easy payment (one $20 bill per dance, no counting in the dark, staus quo), the cost of dances hasn't kept up.

Now, some clubs are raising prices.

Rather than making dances $20, then $22, then $25, etc. and increasing then price over time… the clubs say SURPRISE! $40 per dance!

Well, that is going to turn customers off. That is going to make the creepy guys start asking "what do I get for that kind of money?”

That is going to be tough on everyone involved… because a price JUMP that major isn’t ideal.

But on a certain level, it is keeping up with what it costs.

A gourmet coffee and some snacks can easily cost $20 at a nice cafe. I’d hate for my talent and time to be worth LESS than a berry tart, a scone, and an Espresso Venti Soy Mocha Something Something.

I'm a warm, living, breathing, dancing, naked, beautiful human being... I live out your fantasies, I provide entertainment, I am one-on-one, with you, without clothing.... Why shouldn't my attention/affection/company cost more than a random brunch?

Do dancers deserve more than $20 if we are keeping up with inflation?

YES!


40623

Yeah the $20 dollar dance was common even when I started dancing TWENTY YEARS AGO. I am really surprised it hasn't gone up because everything else has. Like you mentioned when it doubles like it did then customers (some creepy, some not)questioning this. What I think these clubs should have done is raised it slowly like in five dollar increments ($20, $25 a few years later, etc). Then they wouldn't question it. I found that calculator and it said that $20 in 1993 has the same buying power as $32.77 so not as high as $40 but higher than $20.

Tourdefranzia
02-09-2015, 02:48 PM
Here's the thing, there will always be a variety of price points in a market a big as the one Strip clubs occupy. The price points don't really mean anything on their own, but it does act as a way to segregate clientele by socioeconomic class. You can buy a brand new car for $15k or you can buy a brand new car for $50k. Which car is better? That depends on who you ask, but there are price points for every income level. Is a 5 Series BMW worth the extra $35k over a Toyota Corolla? Are they more reliable? Do they handle that much better? Are they better able to get someone from point A to point B? Probably not three times as well as a Corolla, and yet people are happy to pay three times the price.

I've never heard of a BMW customer walking in and asking the salesperson what he's going to get for his $50k and then proceeds to quote Toyota prices to the salesperson in an attempt to get the price points lowered on the BMW model he's looking at. Sounds ridiculous, right?

If you don't want to pay BMW prices for a car, then shop someplace else (or use public transportation or whatever is the lower cost option), don't go to the dealership and complain that they charge too much because it will get you exactly nowhere.

Same with strip clubs.

The club that doubled the prices was pretty dumb about their marketing tactics. My club doubled the prices, but offered an "entry level" dance for the original $20 rate for the first 6 months. The $20 dances were identical to what you would get sitting stage side for a couple of singles, so it became obvious to entry level customers that it wasn't worth it to buy the $20 show and to just pony up for the $40 full contact dances.

rickdugan
02-09-2015, 02:56 PM
Tour, you've used a similar analogy twice now, but I haven't noticed any blue in this thread say that he complains about dance prices to dancers while visiting these clubs. Are you posting these comments because it is something you've been experiencing in your workplace?

Kellydancer
02-09-2015, 03:02 PM
I get where Tour is going and see both sides. For example if you raise the prices one of two things will happen, you will either get better customers or no customers at all. However it's more complex and there are issues such as is there local competition (and how much do they charge)and what about the dancers? Are they hot, ugly or varies? what do they offer as compared to local clubs? Generally speaking the more you pay the hotter the dancer or the more you'll receive.

blyzzard
02-09-2015, 04:02 PM
Really, it all boils down to whether there is a market for the services at that price. The clubs who raise prices from $20 to $40 will soon find out whether their clientele believes that the services being offered are worth paying double the price for. In some instances it will be a yes, in other instances it will be a no. And that only applies to those who can afford the increase. Those that can't afford the increase in price will simply go bye bye. Which gets back to the spirit of the OP's original question, which was essentially whether has anyone noticed a decrease in customers after a drastic increase in price. I'm curious about the answer to that. My thought would be that you'd see fewer customers who could afford the increase and if the customers were still spending, they would spend on fewer dancers because their budget would not carry them as far which would hurt the club as a whole even if some of the higher end dancers would still have strong earnings.

gameover
02-09-2015, 08:31 PM
U
Yeah the $20 dollar dance was common even when I started dancing TWENTY YEARS AGO. I am really surprised it hasn't gone up because everything else has. Like you mentioned when it doubles like it did then customers (some creepy, some not)questioning this. What I think these clubs should have done is raised it slowly like in five dollar increments ($20, $25 a few years later, etc). Then they wouldn't question it. I found that calculator and it said that $20 in 1993 has the same buying power as $32.77 so not as high as $40 but higher than $20.

I agree the clubs should use smaller increases to avoid sticker shock.

However, one thing that is misleading in your numbers, is that when the clubs set the $20 "standard" years ago, they had also doubled the price (from $10). So, when that price went into effect, it went far beyond the cost of living level. So for many years after the increase, dancers enjoyed a premium over what they had been earning.

lurkingtitties
02-09-2015, 08:52 PM
I've worked in $10 dance clubs and $50 dance clubs, and I'd say the sweet spot is $30. They're still an easy sell and I don't have to give 8382628494 dances a night to meet my goals.

I agree with this. I find that guys tip better on $30 dances too.

I wanna know where GothBarbie is working with these crazy high dance prices! ;)

SweetJulia
02-09-2015, 09:28 PM
The places that charge a lot do so because they can. I had someone give me 140 for three dance once in a ten dollar club. You think I gave him change or another eleven dances? No. If I could get away with doing one 300 dance a night, I would. If places charging more are open and girls are working there, someone is paying. Customers complaining about prices in places they've walked into willingly is annoying. It saves everyone headaches if people went places they could afford instead of complaining about the ones they can't. It's a waste of energy and puts you in the same category as the guy who's peeing outside. It's human nature to want as much money as possible for as little money as possible. No ones ever turned down a raise or given back half their lottery winnings. I really hate to compare stripping to escorting, but if you charge 300 an hour and four weekly regulars, that's 1200 for four hours of work. If you run specials, you'll get twenty weekly regulars, but have to see twice as many people for that amount, while working twice as many hours. Your hourly average goes down, and that's what matters the most. Also, working twice as much, you get tired, so the pricier dances/services/cheesecakes will tend to be better because they haven't been pumping them out all day.

Kellydancer
02-09-2015, 09:32 PM
U

I agree the clubs should use smaller increases to avoid sticker shock.

However, one thing that is misleading in your numbers, is that when the clubs set the $20 "standard" years ago, they had also doubled the price (from $10). So, when that price went into effect, it went far beyond the cost of living level. So for many years after the increase, dancers enjoyed a premium over what they had been earning.

But once again dancers should make more than a living level. Dancing can be a hard job and very taxing. Dancers have to deal with harassment, rejection and the possibility of going home losing money. Also back then it was more of an entertainment thing and add in the fact that stripping was just becoming accepted. Many women who dance today never would have back then for a variety of reasons.

rickdugan
02-09-2015, 10:14 PM
I travel a great deal, so I've had the opportunity to visit a wide variety of clubs in different areas with different pricing structures, including those charging $30-40 per song. In some areas, the customers absorb these prices with seemingly no problem and cool beans. But one interesting phenomenon I've witnessed in areas where (1) these higher prices exist in clubs in working class areas; and (2) where there is limited competition, is that guys don't leave to go elsewhere. They just don't go to the backroom. Imagine clubs with 30+ guys and 15 dancers, yet a backroom that is a ghost town for extended stretches. I've definitely seen this in places like Mobile, Jacksonville and Richmond, by way of a few examples. But, of course, the girls still need to wade through all of those customers in the hopes of finding a potential spender. I've always wondered if the girls in those clubs would benefit by a reduction in the LD prices.

gameover
02-09-2015, 10:17 PM
But once again dancers should make more than a living level. Dancing can be a hard job and very taxing. Dancers have to deal with harassment, rejection and the possibility of going home losing money. Also back then it was more of an entertainment thing and add in the fact that stripping was just becoming accepted. Many women who dance today never would have back then for a variety of reasons.

I'm sure dancing is hard, and I think that dancers should receive premium compensation for it. If dancers can sell dances at $40, I don't begrudge them that. More power to them. It's higher than than I'm personally willing to pay, but I'm fine with them charging whatever the market will bear.

There are other clubs in my area that offer $20 dances, and I'm totally fine with switching my business to them. At some point in the future, if they raise prices to $40, I'll decide if the new price worth it to me. Maybe, by then inflation will make that $40 more palatable. Maybe not. As has been mentioned, this is a luxury item, not a necessity. I can always become an Internet porn hobo (have to admit, I love that expression), and just spend the money in Vegas :)

I was just saying that when the price doubled from 10 to 20, it built in inflation protection for years.

Also, you mentioned that stripping was less accepted back then. I agree, and I think that is one reason why dancers earn a high premium. I think that premium may be shrinking, because stripping has become far more accepted, even mainstream, so there is far less stigma associated with it, and more women willing to do it. I think that is another reason the $20 has stayed the same.

Starling
02-09-2015, 10:27 PM
Considering everything else goes up in costs over several years, why not dance prices too?

Flickdreams
02-09-2015, 11:27 PM
Well, an earlier post on the thread likened me to a "porn hobo", but I won't take offense, since my initial post could have been worded more neutrally. So, I'll accept that as collateral damage. :)

I'll cop that one but I will add that its also geared toward those who barter and dicker no matter what the price, and when there are options-a-plenty at multiple price ranges (perhaps the quality differs, perhaps not) then you've hardly been hung out to dry.

SweetJulia
02-10-2015, 12:46 AM
Dear, you were GIVEN A $110 TIP, VOLUNTARILY not paid $46.67 per dance for three dances.

The open distain shown to customers in this thread frankly disgusts me. Just because a customer questioned to viability of a 100% price increase.

After I hit reply, I'm next going to unsubscribe from this thread.

It's not towards customers as people, it's towards arguing with a business over what its' services are worth. If someone feels the quality isn't worth the price or is unable to afford them, in every other industry they seek out a cheaper alternative or one where they feel the quality of services rendered matches the price. Only in the adult business is there whining and bargaining. I have a new car. It's nice, but not worth six figures. I can either be happy with it and save up for a nicer one someday-like an adult with a life-or call Mercedes, whine to them cuz they care, and start telling my sob story to whoever is sitting by me in a bar when a Mercedes commercial comes on. That's so time consuming and pessimistic. Lapdances aren't air, it's possible to survive without them. It's not that serious. Cheaper places exist, give them some business, there's no need to get so heated about something so trivial, God.

SweetJulia
02-10-2015, 12:53 AM
There are other clubs in my area that offer $20 dances, and I'm totally fine with switching my business to them.
Problem solved, it really is that easy. I just really have to shake my head at how angry some of these replies are....................if having to cut down is what gets you emotional-not family, health, or career issues-you're quite lucky. OMG I've earned a drink reading this thread.

lokikola
02-10-2015, 01:06 AM
25 for a dance is NOT enough. Inflation. Prices on everything goes up, why not dances, too? It's a luxury, after all.
I sell a single dance for $40 or offer a 3/$100 option and actually sell the latter more. In the right city this does fly and customers do she'll out the money for it.
I always return to my favorite phrase: I don't make deals with peasants! Haggling is NOT okay in the strip club and neither is whining about prices. Go to a dive and get cheap dances from cheaper girls or shut up and enjoy your dance.

Starling
02-10-2015, 01:20 AM
^Yeah seriously. Everyone says how much better dancing used to be years ago, but prices for things haven't gone up either to make up for inflation.

SweetJulia
02-10-2015, 03:14 AM
Dear, you were GIVEN A $110 TIP, VOLUNTARILY not paid $46.67 per dance for three dances.

The open distain shown to customers in this thread frankly disgusts me. Just because a customer questioned to viability of a 100% price increase.

After I hit reply, I'm next going to unsubscribe from this thread.

Not sure why you're so angry and condescending in your wording. I've been called worse things than dear by unhappy customers, so it's ok. I did the math, so I really don't need it broken down. I attended a boot camp like nursing school where the instructors stressed making a habit of triple checking your math because you'd be put in situations where messing up numbers could kill someone. So, while ensuring someone isn't shorted on having pretty girls grind on him is laughable in importance, I made this over cautious method of checking a new religion with any numbers I was presented with. Not being mean, just my best attempt at being assertive in a situation I'm talked down to in. It happens in the adult business a lot,which is a shame, because customers who expect to be treated like kings really don't return the favor. He stopped after three dances cuz he um, finished. So, the extra money was likely to make up for that. I'd pay someone off not laugh if I ever found myself in his position, after somehow growing a penis that fires so quickly. He also tipped twenties on stage where getting a ten was a rarity, so I think overpaying may have been an underlying fetish as well. I wish more people had that one. I'm trying to be nice, but I have a feeling that when people who pay for adult services, whatever ones they may be, they're sort of forced to face the realization that money matters and, while the person performing the services is usually polite and sensual, a lack of ability to pay for intimacy results in no intimacy and any illusion of being special and an exception being made for them dissolves into thin air. There was a group of guys that used to come into my third club that brought their own beers. All wanted two for one dances, so you'd be guaranteed 140, but for 280 worth of work. Some girls would do it and some wouldn't. Some would sit there and make fun of them the whole time. While I wouldn't do it out loud, I always thought that if I was them, I'd come in every OTHER week and pay full price to avoid being resented/disliked-making for a more pleasant experience for all. It's insulting on our end when a customer receiving a service so intimate states that he won't pay full price and and we should deliver 100% effort for 50% pay. I danced for them a few times, they weren't quality dances. When they were outnumbered by people willing to pay, I acted if they were invisible. A bit rude, but so was their request. They didn't offer up enough respect to be fair, so I decided common courtesy was optional in dealing with them when it wasn't slow. I think they understood that, but always looked mad when they had no girls willing to take them up on their offer. It's like, a sensual illusion costs this much. If all the money isn't there, all the bells and whistles of the experience they get from the dancers won't be. Posts like this remind me why I switched to camming. Those customers complain about prices as well, but it's especially insulting when the service is so up close and personal. I can't even imagine how insulting it is to escorts when they have guys try to nickle and dime them, as they provide the most intimate service possible. Minimum effort on a customers' part will translate to minimal effort on the dancers' part. While some guys have no problem with being thought of as less than the people willing to pay full price, some really think payment doesn't make a difference. Please, someone-go to the dentist and complain about his prices. Offer him to pay half. See how difficult it becomes to schedule and the quality of care you receive once you leave that taste of disrespect in someones' mouth. Even better, do it to a drug dealer-you'll see how polite girls being snotty about this behavior is compared to them :) It just pisses me off that something so unacceptable is so prevalent with adult work. Everyone has expectations that they'll be paid fairly for performing at their best and attempting to convince them that subpar payment warrants the same stellar service is unfair. Ok 40 is a lot for a dance in Cleveland-it can get you a blow job from a streetwalker. But these guys don't want that, because it's what's expected. They get a high from feeling special and having someone make an exception for them and just be happy with what they can afford. God, I so feel for girls who are still dancing. OP-just to say something nice-thank you so much for reminding me why I stopped dancing and switched to camming and grateful for the customers who actually did what was expected-pay full price-which was reciprocated with my best effort. A smart man who lacked advanced education said something very appropriate for this thread a few years ago-"Don't try to buy anything you can't afford. You'll cut down on the headaches you give and cause."
*Mods, please don't delete this thread. I want to print it up to read for motivation when I'm bored in my current position to wipe the glamour off dancing and fall back to the day to day issues that girls who work in clubs are forced to put up with, in person and online. I'm done venting, I just can't let things I feel make this industry a difficult one to work in slide and get a brief taste of the feelings that less than ideal statements/complaints by those who provide the lucrative money-that everyone in this industry likes-bring about in dancers. Things customers say/do have an effect on your overall mood, which in turn can hinder earnings. Some are better at brushing it off than me. Maybe it's age, but the older I get, the less tolerant I become with unreasonable treatment by those who willingly visit clubs. PS-I hope this wasn't too bitchy, I tried to make it as respectful as possible while explaining how it feels from a side customers have never been on and probably never will be. I'm also procrastinating on a boring paper due in a few hours lol.

Tourdefranzia
02-10-2015, 08:05 AM
Tour, you've used a similar analogy twice now, but I haven't noticed any blue in this thread say that he complains about dance prices to dancers while visiting these clubs. Are you posting these comments because it is something you've been experiencing in your workplace?

Sometimes. It is usually from someone who really shouldn't be visiting an upscale club, and yet tries to push the dancers to charge less anyway. It is hard to visually weed out the highly paid computer engineers from the unemployed or low wage workers as they tend to dress identical. (No, seriously, why do $200k/yr engineers dress in clothes from WalMart?)

Frankly, I don't care that they don't like the price points, as there are plenty of customers who are happy to pay the higher prices. Obviously, if I wasn't making enough money with the current system, I'd look into either getting out or charging less.

But as of right now, the 130 +/- girls who work at my club every week are doing just fine with the higher priced dances.

blyzzard
02-10-2015, 08:32 AM
I'm so confused. No one haggles at auto dealers anymore? :-). Sorry for the threadjack - carry on!

miss.a.p1600
02-10-2015, 08:39 AM
I charge $40 a song WITH my clothes on and no extras.

Now this may limit my customers but I feel like it we as dancers HAVE to charge a premium for the work we do. We not only have hella fees having to pay pimp like club owners, staff and "stage fees" but we also have expenses like new dancer costumes and so many other overhead type expenses.

Also, I give 90-100% in my stage performance and my VIP customers. I am well educated. I look attractive. And I know how to make a man feel good and have a good time.

There are also many risks to this job like pervert customers or getting caught up in a raid from people slanging drugs and pussy in the club so we need money saved aside for possible legal fund.

Also dancing is physically and emotionally draining. Do you know how hard it is to exude sexiness cause your money depends on it even when you don't feel like it?

I believe a dancer can charge more if there is value like a busted stripper with poor communication skills probably wouldn't get far charging $40 a song.

Dancing is like working as a NFL player. They make 6 and 7 figures just to run around and jump on each other. They make a lot of money like dancers but the average career span is only 3-7 years similar to dancers. Oh but I bet you would willingly plop down 2-300 for some front row nfl tickets just to see the players not even to talk of touch them but you balk at paying $40 a song to get up close and personal with a bomb ass stripper?!?

Your question make no sense at all.

$40 is a drop in the bucket.

I challenge men who complain about prices to go to Vegas, get your ass in a thong, and then see how much you chArge for a dance I bet you won't complain about 40 dollars.

blyzzard
02-10-2015, 09:16 AM
I don't think anyone is saying that dancers don't have the right to charge $40 per song or that it is a bad thing in any way. Dancers should have the right to charge what the market will bear for their services. If there are more than enough guys willing to pay $40 per dance, then by all means go get it. If my favorite dancer's club doubled her lap dance price from $20 per dance to $40 per dance, I'd have to think long and hard about whether I would continue to see that dancer and/or continue to frequent that club. If I decided not to, that dancer would likely need to replace the income she receives from me. If she and other dancers can replace the income they lost from customers who felt like they could not afford the rate increase, then the club made the right decision. If she can't then, I suppose she or the club made the wrong decision to raise prices.

i know as an attorney if I charge 400 an hour for my services and no one is hiring me, I'm thinking maybe I need to drop my rates. Conversely, if I'm charging $200 per hour and have work coming out of my ears, it might be the right time to charge more for my services.

I think the only question at hand is whether clubs that are raising the dancers rates are increasing their business/revenue, staying the same, or dropping.

Selina M
02-10-2015, 11:04 AM
I'm so confused. No one haggles at auto dealers anymore? :-). Sorry for the threadjack - carry on!

Auto dealers are the last bastion of haggling, and it shouldn't be a thing IMHO. It's nonsense that some people have to pay $4k more for a car because they're bad at cutting through BS. My parents own a retail pet store and they get so pissed at people trying to "wheel and deal" with them, because they're right, it is not a swap mart and the prices are set. They don't care what Petsmart is charging, they can't/won't match it for whatever reason and their prices are where they are for a reason, be it the cost of overhead, the item, or supply and demand. It's been especially bad since the economy blew over in around 2007/2008.

We don't charge more for lap dances based on whether the guy appears to have money or be bad at resisting sales pitches... sure, we may sell more of them to that person, but it's not a price change, he pays the same as the handsy Mexican who pays in all $1s.

Threadjack aside :)

I think the take-away point is, charge what the market will bear and what you can do without negatively impacting your income. For example, if it's busy enough and I am either the hottest girl there or there are very few girls, I won't do floor dances... because supply and demand says I can choose to tell people I only do $20 VIPs. I am choosing to do this and the market bears it well in that situation, but if I try it in the wrong scenario (tons of girls on, some porn star-looking night shift girl working while I'm rocking a t-shirt and ponytail), the market laughs at me and I have to offer the $10 option again.
The guys will pay what they are willing to pay, and the girls who are charging too much will have to change their prices. The market evens out eventually. The only difference is that guys are accustomed to $10 dances here, and therefore if the lowest level dance price were to increase it would have to be to $15, then $20 a year later, etc.

SweetJulia
02-10-2015, 11:16 AM
Sure, auto dealers haggle. It's just as cheap and unattractive when customers do it in the club. This whole thread and it's condescending tone, as if we're an out of control puppy getting "out of hand" and chewing up slippers is sad and sorta funny. I feel bad for people who can't afford things they need, but this is a luxury that (gasp) may need to be given up from time to time, like all luxuries do, to do some financial repair.

miss.a.p1600
02-10-2015, 11:51 AM
I don't think anyone is saying that dancers don't have the right to charge $40 per song or that it is a bad thing in any way. Dancers should have the right to charge what the market will bear for their services. If there are more than enough guys willing to pay $40 per dance, then by all means go get it. If my favorite dancer's club doubled her lap dance price from $20 per dance to $40 per dance, I'd have to think long and hard about whether I would continue to see that dancer and/or continue to frequent that club. If I decided not to, that dancer would likely need to replace the income she receives from me. If she and other dancers can replace the income they lost from customers who felt like they could not afford the rate increase, then the club made the right decision. If she can't then, I suppose she or the club made the wrong decision to raise prices.

i know as an attorney if I charge 400 an hour for my services and no one is hiring me, I'm thinking maybe I need to drop my rates. Conversely, if I'm charging $200 per hour and have work coming out of my ears, it might be the right time to charge more for my services.

I think the only question at hand is whether clubs that are raising the dancers rates are increasing their business/revenue, staying the same, or dropping.

Totally makes sense. I thing the highest paying clients give us an idea of the cap for the market. If there really is a cap on what to charge per song and what someone would pay per song. I have not yet charged over 40 a song but I would and if someone paid that then even better. I am aware of supply and demand. I know that on a packed weekend night demand quality dancers is high so the ability to pull in 40 a song is easy.

Some guys say it's too expensive and I entertain offers on slower days but this is the beauty of making an appearances to work prime times when majority dancers are selling and getting at least 40 a song

rickdugan
02-10-2015, 12:19 PM
Totally makes sense. I thing the highest paying clients give us an idea of the cap for the market. If there really is a cap on what to charge per song and what someone would pay per song. I have not yet charged over 40 a song but I would and if someone paid that then even better. I am aware of supply and demand. I know that on a packed weekend night demand quality dancers is high so the ability to pull in 40 a song is easy.

Some guys say it's too expensive and I entertain offers on slower days but this is the beauty of making an appearances to work prime times when majority dancers are selling and getting at least 40 a song

That raises an interesting point. I tend to do more of my clubbing earlier in the week, when it is slower. Perhaps I would have a different view of how difficult it may be to sell more expensive dances if I clubbed on the weekend. I also wonder how it all balances out if it is difficult to sell them during the week, but not so much on the weekends. :shrug:

In any event, that kind of spending competition is just one of the many reasons why I think I'll stick to my weekday schedule. :D

gameover
02-10-2015, 12:35 PM
It is hard to visually weed out the highly paid computer engineers from the unemployed or low wage workers as they tend to dress identical. (No, seriously, why do $200k/yr engineers dress in clothes from WalMart?)

It is camouflage, to keep us from being swarmed by strippers. :)



I charge $40 a song WITH my clothes on and no extras.

Dancing is like working as a NFL player. They make 6 and 7 figures just to run around and jump on each other. They make a lot of money like dancers but the average career span is only 3-7 years similar to dancers. Oh but I bet you would willingly plop down 2-300 for some front row nfl tickets just to see the players not even to talk of touch them but you balk at paying $40 a song to get up close and personal with a bomb ass stripper?!?

Your question make no sense at all.


I would gladly pay $2-300 for sideline seats at any NFL game. Frankly, the fact that I don't have to touch or talk to the players is a plus :)



It's a waste of energy and puts you in the same category as the guy who's peeing outside.

Frankly, implications like this, that because I only spend 3-400, or won't buy $40 dances is because I'm living hand-to-mouth is starting to get insulting. If I chose to, I could spend far beyond what I do in strip clubs. I choose to spend at the level that I feel gives me enjoyment for the money I'm spending. When it comes down to it, money spent in a strip club is money that is pissed away (since you seem to think we spend all of our time pissing outside). I wonder if you treat your cam customers like this. I truly believe that this kind of attitude really shows through, and customers will eventually see through it and you will impact your earnings.

It seems that you are really stressed out at the moment, so I'll leave it at that.

Again, I'm happy for dancers that can charge a lot for dances. If a dancer can sell $150 dances in Australia, I am thrilled for her. More power to her.

I know for me, the jump from $20 to $40 cost the club my business. I am just curious what other dancers who've worked through a large price increase like this have experienced.

blyzzard
02-10-2015, 12:53 PM
As to Rick's point, I, too, club during the week when there is less competition for dancers' attention. This is because I know what happens to me and the $100-$200 I spend per visit, I generally get ignored by the more in demand dancers who seek out greener pastures from guys who spend more. On the weekdays, when I'm one of the much fewer options, my spending is welcomed. I can't and won't complain about it. It is a business when it works in my favor and it is a business when it works in the dancers' favor. I can't begrudge a dancer getting what she can get when the opportunity presents, no more than they should begrudge me for maximizing my spending dollar.

audritwo
02-10-2015, 01:44 PM
I wonder if you treat your cam customers like this. I truly believe that this kind of attitude really shows through, and customers will eventually see through it and you will impact your earnings.

Oh I have a huge problem when someone complains about my $6.99/8.99 a minute for shows. If you can't see my self worth, then go see someone else in your budget. If they bitch and and try to haggle, I'll tear them a new one. And every time I tell someone off, I always get taken to private right away by someone else or someone tips me.



When you set a price for you think YOU and your TIME are worth, and someone thinks less, you'll understand where we are coming.

miss.a.p1600
02-10-2015, 01:47 PM
It is a business when it works in my favor and it is a business when it works in the dancers' favor. I can't begrudge a dancer getting what she can get when the opportunity presents, no more than they should begrudge me for maximizing my spending dollar.

True. To each is own. I suppose but I don't begrudge anyone for not spending stacks of money. I see customer spending like levels. Each customer has levels of spending. Hell the fact you guys spend something is a lot better than the freeloading furniture pieces.

of course the higher the budget the more time and quality a dancer can give to the higher paying customers. I appreciate all customers spending money from the five dollar tipper to the 1000 dollar champagne room customer.

That's the beauty of this field of work some dancers have no limit to what they can charge and for some customers they have a lot of room for what they can and will spend.

And to gameover the fact you would spend hundreds just to watch these nfl dudes means you could easily spend this same amount actually interacting with attractive woman or women so the amount of money isn't the issue then? Or maybe it is. If Super Bowl tickets doubles in price next year they'd still pack a stadium maybe not the same people could afford to go every year.

charlie61
02-10-2015, 02:18 PM
Interesting question for the blues.. How much would YOU charge if you were selling lap dances to strange men?

;)

miss.a.p1600
02-10-2015, 02:39 PM
Interesting question for the blues.. How much would YOU charge if you were selling lap dances to strange men?

;)

Or even strange women? I'd like to know the answer too.

blyzzard
02-10-2015, 02:41 PM
First, is this how much would I charge, as me, a male, for giving strange men lap dances or if I was a female dancer, how much would I charge?