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charlie61
02-10-2015, 02:41 PM
Or even strange women? I'd like to know the answer too.

Yeah, I want to take physical attraction out of the equation for a more useful answer, since the vast majority of dancers experience zero attraction to the vast majority of their customers.

charlie61
02-10-2015, 02:44 PM
First, is this how much would I charge, as me, a male, for giving strange men lap dances or if I was a female dancer, how much would I charge?

As a man dancing for a man, how much would you charge? I'm trying to get you to see it not from someone else's experience, but from your brain in your body. Since sexual attraction has nothing to do with our side of the job, just assume you're a straight man dancing for men who are sexually attracted to other men.

blyzzard
02-10-2015, 02:52 PM
My first inclination is that I would charge amounts that none of the strange men could afford. But, assuming that I'm doing this for a living as a straight man giving guys lap dances, oh man, it's really hard to put a price on it particularly because I cant imagine myself doing it at all. Truthfully any of the prices that have been raised by the women dancing for men are not enough to get me to do it. I see your point. :-).

charlie61
02-10-2015, 02:57 PM
My first inclination is that I would charge amounts that none of the strange men could afford. But, assuming that I'm doing this for a living as a straight man giving guys lap dances, oh man, it's really hard to put a price on it particularly because I cant imagine myself doing it at all. Truthfully any of the prices that have been raised by the women dancing for men are not enough to get me to do it. I see your point. :-).

That's a fair answer. There are plenty of women, too, who couldn't do the job either (and we've all danced with girls who only dance on stage and refuse to sell lap dances...they don't usually last long).

And yet I could also push back on you for an actual answer. Because *everyone* can be bought. You just don't know your price (to paraphrase Churchill).

But your answer has satisfied me sufficiently. :-*

blyzzard
02-10-2015, 03:02 PM
If I could be bought, in this regard, the cost would be really really high.

charlie61
02-10-2015, 03:05 PM
If I could be bought, in this regard, the cost would be really really high.

Even more interestingly...WHY would your price be so high?

blyzzard
02-10-2015, 03:08 PM
The significant uncomfortability factor.

Kellydancer
02-10-2015, 03:15 PM
That's a fair answer. There are plenty of women, too, who couldn't do the job either (and we've all danced with girls who only dance on stage and refuse to sell lap dances...they don't usually last long).

And yet I could also push back on you for an actual answer. Because *everyone* can be bought. You just don't know your price (to paraphrase Churchill).

But your answer has satisfied me sufficiently. :-*

Not to mention all of the women who tried dancing one time (maybe just an audition)and couldn't handle it. It's not an easy job and months not to say years takes a toll physically, emotionally and mentally.

gameover
02-10-2015, 03:18 PM
And to gameover the fact you would spend hundreds just to watch these nfl dudes means you could easily spend this same amount actually interacting with attractive woman or women so the amount of money isn't the issue then? Or maybe it is. If Super Bowl tickets doubles in price next year they'd still pack a stadium maybe not the same people could afford to go every year.

With any purchase, and especially with a luxury purchase, a customer makes a judgement on the value received for the money spent, whether that is in quality of the product, prestige, entertainment, or whatever.

I have done the champagne room thing in the past. I have spent quite a bit more during visits than I do today. I have reached the conclusion that spending more is just a waste of money for me. For $400, I can spend time with and get dances from 2 or 3 dancers. It is a nice evening's entertainment. More than that is overkill. And paying double for that amount of entertainment is not worth it to me. Spending $400 and getting half the entertainment value, is not worth it to me.

When you think of it that way, as an evening's entertainment, $400 is actually a fairly large amount of money to spend. I think sometimes dancers lose track of the value of a dollar, because they work in an environment where they can earn $1000 in a night easily. But to folks with regular jobs, its a fair amount of money. $400 can buy a decent TV set or computer. An evening at the movies might cost $50. A nice dinner, maybe $100. That might be a car payment for someone.

It also has to do with the rarity of an item. Getting sideline seats at an NFL game is difficult to even get. At $300, it would be a bargain, because they are rare, and difficult to get at reasonable prices.

I think part of it is that because strip clubs have become so mainstream, that they have lost some of the danger/naughty/excitement appeal for a lot of people. Since so many women are willing to do it these days, it's not as big a deal to see a pretty girl get naked as it used to be. Because of that, I don't think it commands as much a premium for guys as it used to.

charlie61
02-10-2015, 03:21 PM
The significant uncomfortability factor.

And why, specifically, would it make you uncomfortable?

blyzzard
02-10-2015, 03:28 PM
And why, specifically, would it make you uncomfortable?

I think there's a future for you as an attorney :-). I'd hire you.

gameover
02-10-2015, 03:31 PM
As a man dancing for a man, how much would you charge? I'm trying to get you to see it not from someone else's experience, but from your brain in your body. Since sexual attraction has nothing to do with our side of the job, just assume you're a straight man dancing for men who are sexually attracted to other men.

I understand your point Charlie. I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty of dancing for a stranger. I know that I couldn't do it for any amount of money. I'm not saying that dancers shouldn't get $40 if they can. I can understand wanting to be paid a premium for dancing, and I hope every dancer can set a price that they are comfortable with, that compensates them for the stress/difficulty of the job.

That being said, a lap dance isn't worth $40 to me. There are plenty of places I can go and get them for $20 with very attractive dancers. If I had to pay $40, I would just stop buying them. I might still visit a strip club occasionally, but I would probably just watch/tip the stage show and have a couple beers. I would certainly stop going every week or so, like I do today, and maybe just go every few months.

There is a subset of guys that will buy dances at $40, or $80, or whatever. But there is, I think, a pretty steep supply/demand curve at work there, and the number of guys who will buy dances is much higher at $10 or $20 than it is at $40 or more.

charlie61
02-10-2015, 03:34 PM
I think there's a future for you as an attorney :-). I'd hire you.

I'll let you out of the question since you've been so graciously humoring my curiosity. :)

But I think it's an important one for all customers to consider, and the answer is likely extremely complicated.

Selina M
02-10-2015, 04:00 PM
I have seen customers referred to as day laborers clinging to their $10 bills with a death grip, referred to as hobos, as peesants, and compared to the peeing outside.

Yep no reason at all to get upset...

I refer to them as day laborers because they ARE day laborers. They are landscapers or concrete layers or what have you. I don't like to be rude, but strippers ARE a luxury purchase and if you make $10/hour you should probably not be in a place where that's the cost of a dance unless you can afford to blow a days income. But these guys can't, and instead sit in there for free nursing a $3 beer and not tipping. I don't go into a Bentley dealership and waste a salesmans time. Same principle.

It sets a bad precedent when other guys see them freeloading or trying to finger a girl during a floor dance, so yes, I dislike them and would be thrilled if they were banned. But no, "day laborer" in itself is not an insult.

charlie61
02-10-2015, 06:10 PM
I mean honestly for me the point is mute...I don't have any money to wastevon strippers, and probably won't any time in the future.... but that could make a whole thread in life support and I'm not surevti would be welcome.

Well, then a forum for sex workers and their customers might not be the best place for you to spend your free time...?

simone87
02-10-2015, 06:11 PM
"waste" on? i get that tensions are running high but jeeze..you are on a support site for strippers and the customers who appreciate us.
what i personally think is getting out of hand is the fact that I'm STILL only getting 20 bucks a dance but the dances are now costing customers 30 to 40 bucks a pop. the club is just taking a good chunk of cream off the top and leaving us with what we have been making for how many years now? despite inflation? so now i have to hustle twice as hard for exactly what i was getting before, and having customers accuse ME of being greedy because my club decided to up the dances overnight.

unbeleavable
02-10-2015, 06:13 PM
Interesting question for the blues.. How much would YOU charge if you were selling lap dances to strange men?

;)

As a guy that has danced for money, women don't spend like men do & they are very grabby.

audritwo
02-10-2015, 06:15 PM
Overall it's seeing the value in someone's work. I understand price jump from 20 to 40 is quite a large leap for a good amount of you patrons. But if that's the case, it is what it is. Clubs can choose any price for lap dances. If it's not in your price range or your willing to spend that kind of money, then you can go elsewhere. A good hustler knows not to depend on solely on a customer to live. One day that person will move on. I'm pretty sure the girls at that club will adjust. And if that's what you have to do, that's alright! I don't think there is anything wrong with moving on. In the end you have to do what's best for you.

charlie61
02-10-2015, 06:19 PM
As a guy that has danced for money, women don't spend like men do & they are very grabby.

Yeah, that's part of why I clarified the reason for using gay / bi men in my thought experiment. We've all had the unfortunate experience of dealing with grabby and cheap female customers. :)

Kitcatt
02-10-2015, 06:59 PM
Overall it's seeing the value in someone's work. I understand price jump from 20 to 40 is quite a large leap for a good amount of you patrons. But if that's the case, it is what it is. Clubs can choose any price for lap dances. If it's not in your price range or your willing to spend that kind of money, then you can go elsewhere. A good hustler knows not to depend on solely on a customer to live. One day that person will move on. I'm pretty sure the girls at that club will adjust. And if that's what you have to do, that's alright! I don't think there is anything wrong with moving on. In the end you have to do what's best for you.

Gosh Audri, doesn't this make you feel good that as cam girls we can set our own prices :)!

audritwo
02-10-2015, 07:09 PM
Gosh Audri, doesn't this make you feel good that as cam girls we can set our own prices :)!

Fuck yeah it does.

audritwo
02-10-2015, 07:13 PM
I just hear so much anger pointed at the customer base ...

No there is anger towards the freeloaders and people who try to haggle. We love our paying customers. You are obviously confused.

Kitcatt
02-10-2015, 07:21 PM
No there is anger towards the freeloaders and people who try to haggle. We love our paying customers. You are obviously confused.

Agreed. Generally the tone isn't "you're priced too high" its, "Darn, I cant afford a show with you". I get that, that's why I run gold shows for the budget conscious.

amberlly
02-10-2015, 07:25 PM
When my work place increased prices significantly and suddenly it did have an effect.

Most of our wealthy regs didn't bat an eye and still come in a lot. BUT the customer base demands a higher level of service, attention and standard of girl.

Top earners in good shape, money went right up and demand. More average girls money is the same as less bookings. The bottom end girls quit, out of shape their earnings crashed even when offering free extras and full service no extra cost.

22lligm
02-10-2015, 07:42 PM
This thread is super long and idk if anyone is paying attention to it anymore lol but my favorite club had nude dances for $60 and I made so much money there. The club was always really slow but the men who did come in there had MONEY. My favorite thing was when young guys came in and sat down, asked how much dances were, heard $60 and ran straight for the door. Zero time wasters at that club! So, yes, it is possible to make money with expensive dance prices.

gameover
02-10-2015, 09:47 PM
It looks like there was a negative impact in a couple of clubs, and a short-term negative in another club, that later bounced back. Which makes me think that the prices set in each market are still reasonably close to what the market will bear.

Which makes me wonder a related question. It seems like a fair number of dancers here are unhappy with the price in their clubs. Does your club have the "standard" price for a dance in your area? Or are there other clubs in your area (as in mine) where there are other clubs that have a premium (or lower) price compared to yours? For those in markets like mine with differing prices, have any of you checked out the different price clubs for a period of time to see if the net impact on your earnings was positive or negative?

Vyanka
02-10-2015, 11:38 PM
Why is this being questioned so much??!

charlie61
02-10-2015, 11:45 PM
Why is this being questioned so much??!

This whole thread is a hot mess...the actual question is not what's being discussed. We're all just flailing here. Everyone is talking about slightly different topics, half the people on here feel they've been personally attacked for their opinions, and the rest of us are just wading through paragraph after paragraph of well-thought-out logical blahblah rants (including my own). We all have totally different opinions due to the enormous range of regional variance in dance prices, so the whole discussion is fairly pointless, as every single one of us is both right and wrong depending on a hundred different factors.

I'm starting to get stressed out every time I see this thread pop up as having been updated.

gameover
02-11-2015, 09:35 AM
Why is this being questioned so much??!

One thing I noted from reading the thread, was that there were a lot of dancers who were unhappy with their current dance prices of $10 or $20, or that those prices hadn't changed for a number of years. At the same time, there were a number of dancers who said they were easily selling dances in clubs at higher prices. I thought it might be interesting to the dancers who weren't happy with their current rates to hear about the experiences of those who had experimented with different priced clubs before settling in the one they are at.

miss.a.p1600
02-11-2015, 11:27 AM
One thing I noted from reading the thread, was that there were a lot of dancers who were unhappy with their current dance prices of $10 or $20, or that those prices hadn't changed for a number of years. At the same time, there were a number of dancers who said they were easily selling dances in clubs at higher prices. I thought it might be interesting to the dancers who weren't happy with their current rates to hear about the experiences of those who had experimented with different priced clubs before settling in the one they are at.

I think the dancers who have the ability to travel to areas or market where they can easily command higher prices are definitely the ones who make more in their career pretty much majority shifts. If not they either work the more lucrative shifts while working second jobs or having secondary incomes. Or they simply work both shifts including the slower shift, accept whats going on in that market / environment at that moment, and start negotiating and making deals to sell dances at lower prices if they need to.

Obviously this works when dancers can change their prices. Maybe the girls more satisfied are the ones who have leeway in changing their price when they want.

Tourdefranzia
02-11-2015, 11:37 AM
Why is this being questioned so much??!

I've learned a lot about how to overcome objections in the club thanks to this thread. Most businesses have a cheap, entry level product that they can sell to an entry level customer. Starbucks has $1 cups of brewed coffee, Apple has their iPhone 5C that is free with certain service providers, Hulu has a free option, etc, etc.

At my club, stage tipping is the entry level position. The $40 lap dances exist purely as an upselling tool to get customers into the $100/$250/$500 level dances. Like I said, the $40 dances are not popular in my club (or at least I don't sell very many single song dances). But having the $40 dances available, at least the customers feel like they have a choice.

I use the $40 option as a way to show value when selling the $500 room prices. The songs are cut to 3 minutes. At $40/song that works out to be about $800/hr, but we have a $500/hr Champagne room that also comes with a free bottle of Champagne (or two non-premium drinks of the customer's choice).

By laying out the prices like this, it makes the $40 lap dance seem really expensive in comparison. This means the dances are actually $25 a song when you buy a 30 or 60 minute show. Boom! There's you entertainment value. Add in some alcohol and easy credit card processing, and the $500 show is much easier to sell. ;D

Unkle Fuzzy
02-11-2015, 01:57 PM
I deleted all my posts in this thread. Most of the comments I took offence to were misunderstood, or edited down.

Selina, I understand your point, and frustration being in a low end market. With you being a horse owner, (that was you with the barrel-horse right?), we would probably get along fairly well IRL.

Julia, it was never my intent to demean you in any way, I was just pointing out the difference in a tip and a set price. You have always been nice to me and I appreciate that very much. I replied to you but I may have deleted it before you saw the post. I'm from the South, "Dear" is a term of affection, and was intended that way.

Charlie, I have always been impressed by your calm wisdom, even more so now that I know your actual age. If the members of this forum feel that I should not be here, I will be respectful of their wishes and leave.

rickdugan
02-11-2015, 02:48 PM
Unkle, this is a dancer support site. Venting and unrestrained opinions from dancers come with the turf. Other than avoiding direct attacks upon other members, the dancers who use this site are neither required nor expected to "edit down" or otherwise censor themselves in order to protect the sensitivities of customers who visit this site. This site exists for them, not for us.

I'm not going to opine on whether any member should remain on this site, but IMHO you're going to struggle here if you keep taking generic comments and venting from dancers personally. And why should we, as customers, be getting as worked up as dancers over some of these topics? After all, this is just entertainment for us and has no meaning in anything that is important in our lives. The dancers, on the other hand, are rightfully more invested in these issues because these things affect how (and if) they earn a living dancing.

Also, as a side note, I know what I am seeing and doing in clubs and no opinion on this site is going to change any of that, so what's the upside for me in trying to relentlessly pound my particular views of the world home? All that will accomplish is to further agitate ladies who are already frustrated and come here for support.

Anyway, just my :twocents:

charlie61
02-11-2015, 02:51 PM
Unkle, this is a dancer support site. Venting and unrestrained opinions from dancers come with the turf. Other than avoiding direct attacks upon other members, the dancers' who use this site are neither required nor expected to "edit down" or otherwise censor themselves in order to protect the sensitivities of customers who visit this site. This site exists for them, not for us.

I'm not going to opine on whether any member should remain on this site, but IMHO you're going to struggle here if you keep taking generic comments and venting from dancers personally. And why should we, as customers, be getting as worked up as dancers over some of these topics? After all, this is just entertainment for us and has no meaning in anything that is important in our lives. The dancers, on the other hand, are rightfully more invested in these issues because these things affect how (and if) they earn a living dancing. Also, I know what I am seeing and doing in clubs and no opinion on this site is going to change any of that, so what's the upside for me in trying to pound my particular views of the world in an angry fashion?

Anyway, just my :twocents:

I'm not going to thank this post because I don't want that to be interpreted as a hit against UF, but I think your logic makes good sense, here, rick.

rickdugan
02-11-2015, 03:02 PM
I'm not going to thank this post because I don't want that to be interpreted as a hit against UF, but I think your logic makes good sense, here, rick.

Believe me when I say that no attack was intended. I did a little "head first" posting myself when I first came here, until I came to understand what this site was for and modified my posting accordingly. Indeed, I'm amazed that FBR didn't ban me during my first two weeks posting on this site. ;)

Kellydancer
02-11-2015, 03:15 PM
I remember that because you did originally said a few things that did upset people. I think now many look to you because you do give great advice and are rational about it.

Anyway this topic to me is one of those open ended ones because things will vary depending on location, clientele, even the looks of the dancers and was is in a dance. It's always been this way. I remember many years ago meeting a dancer who was struggling to sell $60 dollar half hour dances. The reason is the club she danced at was not attracting the men that the clubs I was dancing at was and we weren't charging $60,. Instead it was something like $10-$20.

rickdugan
02-11-2015, 05:30 PM
Thanks Kelly for the kind words. I'm not sure how good any advice I post really is, but if anything I say in a place like Life Support has any value it's only because I've been the bad guy in all too many stories in my life, so I'm sadly familiar with how the guys who the ladies are complaining about are thinking. But enough about me and back to the more interesting stuff...

I agree with you, charlie and others who have said that it is impossible to really evaluate this issue on a broad scale basis since so many geographic, economic and other factors play into what a club can get away with charging for LDs, VIPs, drinks or anything else. But it has been a pretty interesting conversation IMHO. This is one of those rare threads in which I feel like I walked away with a lot more information than I started with.

And on that note, I've probably posted quite enough in this thread, so I'm going to thank everyone for some great posts and punch out of this topic. :)

unbeleavable
02-11-2015, 06:09 PM
Closed