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Selina M
03-17-2015, 05:13 PM
^ I don't think we were implying they were the only ones bad at finances... I agree that there are shitload of people who are awful at planning ahead. Hell, I read about a doctor whining that she was $500k in debt and couldn't pay the loans, while she makes 6 figures - wtf? I think EVERYBODY should try to have a backup plan or at least savings, because yes, life does happen.

What I personally was getting at was that (again, me personally) I would not do this job for $500/wk before taxes, at a near-full time schedule, especially if I don't have anything in the pipeline for after I quit. The risks of being caught up in a bust, outed via my face all over the internet if camming, lack of resume w/o fabrication, etc. are too great for that small a payout. That is the point where I think girls would be better off at a vanilla job, that will at a bare minimum pay part of the taxes and possibly have a 401k or health benefits. I feel like if you're gonna be in this industry full-time, it should be "go big or go home" and a girl should not be satisfied with $500/week.

Sam38g
03-17-2015, 05:25 PM
^ I don't think we were implying they were the only ones bad at finances... I agree that there are shitload of people who are awful at planning ahead. Hell, I read about a doctor whining that she was $500k in debt and couldn't pay the loans, while she makes 6 figures - wtf? I think EVERYBODY should try to have a backup plan or at least savings, because yes, life does happen.

What I personally was getting at was that (again, me personally) I would not do this job for $500/wk before taxes, at a near-full time schedule, especially if I don't have anything in the pipeline for after I quit. The risks of being caught up in a bust, outed via my face all over the internet if camming, lack of resume w/o fabrication, etc. are too great for that small a payout. That is the point where I think girls would be better off at a vanilla job, that will at a bare minimum pay part of the taxes and possibly have a 401k or health benefits. I feel like if you're gonna be in this industry full-time, it should be "go big or go home" and a girl should not be satisfied with $500/week.

Well, I agree with you there. Go big or go home. :)

Kellydancer
03-17-2015, 07:58 PM
The reality is many dancers, camgirls, escorts etc aren't good at finances. Otherwise we wouldn't see posts like about being homeless, on welfare or unable to leave an abusive man due to finances, to name a few. Of course there are some smart sex workers (to name two Melonie and Michelle) but there are many more who aren't. There comes a time where most women just aren't attractive enough to work in the sex industry. That's not insulting, but a fact. I never said corporate jobs were for everyone, and nowhere did I mention anything about people in corporate jobs struggling. There are plenty of them too, but that's not the topic. Of course there is discrimination in the corporate world.

Kellydancer
03-17-2015, 08:04 PM
^ I don't think we were implying they were the only ones bad at finances... I agree that there are shitload of people who are awful at planning ahead. Hell, I read about a doctor whining that she was $500k in debt and couldn't pay the loans, while she makes 6 figures - wtf? I think EVERYBODY should try to have a backup plan or at least savings, because yes, life does happen.

What I personally was getting at was that (again, me personally) I would not do this job for $500/wk before taxes, at a near-full time schedule, especially if I don't have anything in the pipeline for after I quit. The risks of being caught up in a bust, outed via my face all over the internet if camming, lack of resume w/o fabrication, etc. are too great for that small a payout. That is the point where I think girls would be better off at a vanilla job, that will at a bare minimum pay part of the taxes and possibly have a 401k or health benefits. I feel like if you're gonna be in this industry full-time, it should be "go big or go home" and a girl should not be satisfied with $500/week.

Yeah I'm not sure where some of those comments came from because I didn't say anything about all sex workers being irresponsible. I was talking about the women who didn't plan ahead and were still in the industry long after the attractiveness has faded. I know a lot of people who are irresponsible and will be working long into retirement that are corporate people but that has nothing to do with it. For example if someone gets injured at work they can get disability but what if it happens at a club? I also don't get the dancers who keep dancing though they make little. I don't get that at all. Those dancers should consider another field.

Melonie
03-20-2015, 04:35 AM
I also don't get the dancers who keep dancing though they make little. I don't get that at all. Those dancers should consider another field.

I'm with you on this one. If a dancer's net earnings are low enough to start approaching the earnings levels resulting from a minimum wage 'vanilla' job, continuing to dance makes no sense whatsoever. Continuing to dance exposes the dancer to potential bust risk, as well as providing zero unemployment and worker's comp benefits, zero relevant resume building work experience, etc. Continuing to dance also creates problems with 'income verification', potentially relegating the dancer to 'subprime' status regarding credit cards / auto loans etc.

In practical terms, the few examples of marginally attractive / marginally successful dancers continuing to work for ( what would appear to be ) near minimum wage levels of tips etc. has also generally included a large ( but unadvertised ) additional income component based on 'extras'.

audrey_k
03-20-2015, 05:45 AM
In my opinion yes.
The industry is now a place where you need to think about becoming a brand.

The level of stardust you need to bring is more involved (Sam wrote a great post about this somewhere)

It doesnt mean you cant make great money in a "flooded" market...just got to find out what makes you different and market yourself correctly.

I agree with this. I think the industry is flooded, but not necessarily with competition that you need to worry about. When I was escorting I put a lot of effort into differentiating myself from other London escorts and creating a brand for myself. I was able to charge quite a bit more than other girls with more experience offering more services. I never understood girls charging less than they could get away with if they had just put some more effort into it. The same goes for stripping. There are a lot of girls lacking the intelligence, organisation, or ambition to create a brand name for themselves and a stable client base, or they're on drugs or being pimped out and can't get it together. Being pretty doesn't cut it anymore, that's for sure, since there are tons of pretty girls working in this industry.

stripperMBA
03-20-2015, 02:52 PM
The strip club industry is flooded in the dallas/fort worth area. The clubs count on the house fees as extra income and henceforth always have too many dancers on shift. Girls with pimps are no longer fired once found out. So this has created something of a shark frenzy for money with girls doing more for less than would have been imaginable six or more years ago. I left my last club due to the sheer amount of guys asking to meet outside for sex. They would come in and just sit there asking dancer after dancer until one girl finally left work early to go meet them. I moved to a club closer to the sports venues and now only dance if there is a game. For me This is the best way to stay profitable. In addition to webcamming and starting a small business on the side. I cannot afford to dance at my contact level full time. This is just the reality. Also with my endometriosis and my husbands health problems working a 9-5 job is pretty much out as there will be times when I am unable to work. So I stay in dancing in caming to make as much as possible in the shortest amount of time.
Many girls who are mothers simply would not be able to afford childcare costs if they worked a low wage square job. By working 7 pm to 2 am at the club they are more likely able to find a relative to care for their child. So for them making 100 dollars a day is still more than working at minimum wage. I also think that the fact that many young mothers are unable or unwilling to find a sutable partner before having a child has influenced the industry too. Leading to more young mothers being to primary caretaker and really needing the money heading into the strip club. Once those livable wage paying manuafacturing jobs went to mexico or over seas it seemed fewer young men were able to or willing to support a family. Young women feeling their biological clock ticking just went and had kids anyway. In my area there are a lot of single moms being the sole supporter working in the strip club. Anyway in my area the strip clubs are flooded.

kortneykay
03-20-2015, 03:02 PM
I don't think so. To me, as long as there are horny clients and there are 7 billion people on the planet I don't see how it's really possible. It's all about supply and demand. A long time ago men would marry ASAP but all the whore houses were still doing very well. During the Great Depression both pussy and cars were top selling items. I think once I stop making good money then I will feel the effects of flooding but right now, not in the least. Also, a lot of new girls are around to try things out and they drop like flies. Those of us who've been in the industry for years have seen better days but I blame that on economics and not necessarily overcrowding.

james_sf_xxx
03-20-2015, 06:28 PM
Hey, Im a guy in San Francisco, and was just reading this thread. Here's my experience. 20 years ago, I was a younger guy and couldn't necessarily get with chicks to easily, but wanted them desperately. So, I went to strip clubs a lot and would be kind of star struck. And I did that in a few of the bigger cities in the Western US. Back then, I was making way less money, and could only afford to spend like $100 or $200 at a time. But nowadays, I make like 5 times more money than that, and am not really seeing the value in spending $200 like that, when there's alternatives now on how to spend money on sex. Another main thing, it was like, the seedy ghetto element of strip clubs was a unfortunate side-effect I had to put up with, and just barely. But now it's like, why should I have to. I don't want anything to do with that element, whatsoever.

Anyway to the OP's discussion and related comments on pricing, one other thing you might not realize. Single guys with cash are not confined to the same local pricing tiers as you think. They can easily ... easily ... just fly off to Costa Rica / Columbia / Thailand / Philippines / Germany for a week several times a year and play in an entirely different pricing standards. And the type of venues and accepted norms as well. Meanwhile, when the guy gets home, he can tell his friends and also, keep on thinking about it. Also can go back online and chat with a girl in Philippines, who'll talk sweet and doing anything.

I could probably say more, but my advice for success, pay more attention to guys and have better service, and try to stay with them longer, AKA the long con. Also, whatever you do, don't go for the skank look, that devalues you more than anything. Young innocent look is good. Nice and pretty, well maintained, but not expensive looking is good. There's a lot of dudes in the so called 80-95% income bracket, that have money to spend but need to see value and some convenience as well. Else, they can know how to spend in various other ways.

Selina M
03-20-2015, 07:20 PM
I agree with the idea of certain tiers of clubs being flooded, and that the girls who survive will be those who can entertain the higher end clients.

I worked at a very divey club, which was pretty much infamous and always packed mostly due to the availability of extras. It was definitely flooded; there would sometimes be 60 girls through the door by 4pm; and most of them were willing to do some level of contact that's illegal in Phoenix... a hand job over the pants was like, the bare minimum if you wanted to make decent $$. Honestly, I could never crack over $40/hr there, because a) the clientele were AWFUL quality, b) I wasn't willing to do illegal contact, c) 59 other girls on, in a club the size of my apt, and d) there were no real upsells... only a $25/song VIP with $5 to the house, and it was basically used as the "extras room". I left because, fuck that noise. These girls were mostly at that club doing that shit because they had no idea how to get $$ without doing extras and weren't willing to read a sales/people skills book.

I could be very wrong, but I think we are going to see a split of some sort, where clubs are either like that ^^^, or else they are upper level places that the 10% guys will go. I kinda think the mid-tier will get phased out... most of them out here are struggling. It's like the mid-levels are having an identity crisis, are they a strip club or a Cheers type bar?

I think the girls who still continue to bank, will be those who keep up their appearance, keep reading Hustle Hut/sales books/people skills books, and making themselves a shiny, entertaining bauble that the 10% guys will spend on. I don't think there will be much room for the lazy, extras, easy-way-out in the future.

Melonie
03-21-2015, 04:16 AM
To me, as long as there are horny clients and there are 7 billion people on the planet I don't see how it's really possible. It's all about supply and demand.

Again, the problem isn't a lack of potential horny customers ... it's a lack of potential horny customers with available money to spend. The latest data on those 7 billion people you refer to shows an average worldwide annual income of $2,920 ( Gallup 2013 ). Confining data to the USA, the national average wage earnings are $44,888 ( Social Security 2013) before taxes ... which translates into something under $40,000 for a single person after tax. And this data, of course, does not take into consideration the even lower incomes of Americans who aren't actually earning a wage ( unemployed, students, etc. ). This obviously means that the average working American might be able to afford to go to a strip club once or twice a year, and might be able to spend $200-$400 while there !!!


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bmIbrwZpxFk/UjtqZooHoAI/AAAAAAAAI9I/DcVBitB8TXw/s1600/a-cumulative-income-distribution-us-individuals-2012.png


^^^ while this chart is based on 2012 data, it clearly shows that vast majority of strip club customer 'discretionary' spending dollars originates with 90%-99% earners. And accessing those top earning customers more or less requires the ability to be hired at an upper level club !!!


I could be very wrong, but I think we are going to see a split of some sort, where clubs are either like that ^^^, or else they are upper level places that the 10% guys will go. I kinda think the mid-tier will get phased out... most of them out here are struggling. It's like the mid-levels are having an identity crisis, are they a strip club or a Cheers type bar?

Agreed. The upper level places which can attract top 10%+ earners are arguably the only clubs whose customer base can afford to spend significant money. Also, arguably, some lower tier clubs are able to survive because the availability of 'extras' convinces lower earning customers to actually spend more money than they can really afford ( at the expense of late rent, late monthly payments, Ramen noodles for the rest of the month etc. ). That leaves mid-tier clubs with a customer base which can barely afford the cover charge, a couple of drinks, and one private dance. Coincidentally, the lack of customer 'discretionary' spending dollars in mid-tier clubs goes a long way to explain the 'identity crisis' you pointed out.

Circling back to the original topic, indeed a reduction in the number of available 'straight' jobs which offer a decent pay rate ( i.e. manufacturing, mid-level retail / services ), an increasing number of girls find themselves willing / needing to consider exotic dancing as a potential alternative. However, with more girls to choose from than ever, upper level clubs can now be more 'picky' than ever in regard to the dancers they will hire. So this leaves a growing number of would-be dancers who cannot 'make the cut' at an upper level club seeking to work at mid-level clubs. A growing supply of willing dancers, in combination with a shrinking number of mid-tier club customer 'discretionary' spending dollars, makes for a very 'flooded' market !!!



I think the girls who still continue to bank, will be those who keep up their appearance, keep reading Hustle Hut/sales books/people skills books, and making themselves a shiny, entertaining bauble that the 10% guys will spend on. I don't think there will be much room for the lazy, extras, easy-way-out in the future.

Full agreement regarding girls who are able to 'polish' their appearance and skills to the point of being given access to the top 10% earning customer base of upper level clubs. However, I would argue that, on the opposite end of the spectrum, girls will always be able to earn money if they offer 'extras' at a price which their customer base can pay ( without being evicted from their apartment, without having their car repo'd, without starving etc. ). Between those two ends of the spectrum, however, lies an increasingly 'flooded' market for girls who don't 'measure up' to upper level club hiring standards - and who are also unwilling to offer 'extras'.

salzsieder67
03-21-2015, 04:15 PM
I don't think things quite that dreary for the middle class clubs. While I do think that the outlook is bleak for the mid-tier, I wouldn't say they are headed for extinction just yet.

The high-end clubs aren't easily accessible for everyone who could afford to go to one. They are located more in the larger metropolitan areas which can be quite a drive away. Someone who can afford the high-end isn't going to go to the nearest dive either, because he knows he can afford better. If a mid-tier club can manage to make itself convenient to get to it will attract those 9%ers. A guy who can afford to go to the club will go to the mid-tier rather than drive 2 to 3 hours to get to a high end place, especially if he can get almost the same level of talent at 70-75% of cost. Visiting the high-end clubs would be something to do if he was going to the metropolis anyway.

I think the identity crisis that the mid-tier clubs are having could lead to a successful business model if done properly. Too many of the mid-tier right now are trying to be just one step above a dive, when they should be going for the one step below a high-end place. That way they can offer those other things (which drives the dancers crazy) that will help them survive , but still stay firmly in the strip club arena. The flooded market will most likely be those clubs that are basically brothels except for the sign out front, and that will be a vicious cycle of cheap girls and even cheaper "extras".

simone87
03-21-2015, 04:25 PM
but the top 10%ers or 1%ers, aren't they rich enough to get full service from the best of the best, and have them sent to their houses, or hotel rooms, or whatever? i really have no idea as i've dont really hang out with rich people and i've definitely never known a top 10 percenter, but do they still go to strip clubs even?

Selina M
03-21-2015, 04:43 PM
If a mid-tier club can manage to make itself convenient to get to it will attract those 9%ers. A guy who can afford to go to the club will go to the mid-tier rather than drive 2 to 3 hours to get to a high end place, especially if he can get almost the same level of talent at 70-75% of cost. Visiting the high-end clubs would be something to do if he was going to the metropolis anyway.



I just left a mid-tier club, and you're right that in the right situation it can attract upper crust clientele. This one was towards north Phx, which is a higher end area, and is on the way to downtown and whatnot. We did get a few guys with several hundred to spend at a time, but it was not a daily occurrence (the only ones that frequented the place and spent multiple bills were getting extras from their ATF dancers that had been there for years).
Another factor there is that these upper crust guys were sometimes put off by the young, broke crowd, and there wasn't a lot of opportunity for them to be treated like the 10%... I read somewhere that some people with $$ are very concerned with having other people to see them spend it; that would make sense here. They seemed to feel a little weird doing things like paying a DJ $20 for a paper wristband for "VIP"; even the $40 entry private room was on the main floor with no door and had constant foot traffic past it, so it wasn't very classy-feeling either.

Also being in a major metropolitan area, the upper-level clubs here are maybe a 20 min freeway drive away from the lower/mid clubs; better clubs are easily accessible. I think this will totally lead to the decline of mid-level clubs in Phx. I know for a fact that that club is struggling; they are hiring tons of unattractive, overweight girls to collect house fees from, and brought back the kitchen because they lost so much business without it (and it's always bad news when naked women aren't enough and a club needs a kitchen to get bodies in the door). I can think of maybe 2 other mid-level clubs here, one of which is also struggling and the other stays alive because it is way the eff out there and has a monopoly. Everything else is either upper-tier (if only an attempt at it) or a dive/brothel scenario.

But you're right in that middle clubs will probably stay afloat in towns that don't have other options.

salzsieder67
03-21-2015, 05:00 PM
The top 1% could have the best talent flown in if they wanted. Remember there is a big difference between the 1% and the 9%. There is being well to do, then there is being wealthy. One has to be careful when making sweeping generalizations that cover the top 10%. Just like one can't make sweeping generalizations about dancers. Just because there are a few who can do some really neat pole tricks doesn't mean they all can, or the flip side, just because some girls offer extras doesn't mean they all do.

Like Melonie said the 1% you not see in a club, but the 9% you will. I don't know anyone in the 1%, but I do know a few in the 9% and some of them do go to strip clubs. Some guys are in the 9% because they are smart with their money, but still like to have some fun. Fun that is worth the money spent, because even when having fun they still keep an eye on their wallet.

Melonie
03-21-2015, 05:42 PM
^^^ Salzsieder is exactly correct. The 1%ers earning $300,000+ per year can pretty well afford anything their hearts desire. I actually discount them as potential strip club customers because, generally speaking, they risk losing more by going to a strip club in person than by not going and instead 'ordering take-out'. It's the 90 to 99 %ers earning something between $85,000 and $300,000 per year that actually provide the majority of total customer spending dollars in strip clubs.

I also agree to some extent with the postulation that an 'upper mid-range' strip club might carve out a niche for itself in a smaller city that is located an inconvenient distance away from major cities. However, another economic fact works against that ... i.e. that top 10% paying jobs are typically much more scarce in smaller cities, due to a lack of corporate headquarters, a lack of high-ranking gov't jobs, comparatively few stockbrokers, comparatively few major bank operations, comparatively few high profile law firms, etc. Thus you'd be lucky to discover that 5% of the residents of a smaller city were actually earning at top 10% levels. In comparison, in very large cities, 20%+ of the residents may be earning at top 10% levels.

salzsieder67
03-22-2015, 02:41 AM
I also agree to some extent with the postulation that an 'upper mid-range' strip club might carve out a niche for itself in a smaller city that is located an inconvenient distance away from major cities. However, another economic fact works against that ... i.e. that top 10% paying jobs are typically much more scarce in smaller cities, due to a lack of corporate headquarters, a lack of high-ranking gov't jobs, comparatively few stockbrokers, comparatively few major bank operations, comparatively few high profile law firms, etc. Thus you'd be lucky to discover that 5% of the residents of a smaller city were actually earning at top 10% levels. In comparison, in very large cities, 20%+ of the residents may be earning at top 10% levels.

True, only some small to mid-sized cities will be able to support a mid-tier club. Some clubs may need to make themselves more of a regional entity, rather than just thinking in terms of the city they are in to be able to draw enough customers. This is part of what I was thinking of by saying making themselves convenient. If they put themselves in a place where they can draw from 2 or 3 small to mid-size cities. Unfortunately though many mid-tier clubs are going to die out just because the local/regional economy is not able to support them.

Kellydancer
03-22-2015, 04:51 PM
Granted I'm going back many years but I generally danced at mid level clubs and we attracted all types of men from heads of companies to janitors to college students and everyone else. Most of these clubs I danced at are either closed or are extras clubs. I had a few regulars who were upper income, like the stockbroker who would pay me to dance for him several times a week at his Gold Coast condo in downtown Chicago. He could have hired a prostitute for what he paid and I asked him about that. He told me he could get all the free sex he wanted, he just liked the idea of someone dancing for him. Maybe he was impotent or he liked having fun that wouldn't compromise his stockbroker job.

To me the whole 1% thing can be misleading because I know in real life many business owners who are middle class and have known people in jobs you wouldn't pay that much. When I was a child my dad was a trash collector and he made as much as many doctors and lawyers and these were our neighbors. Many people you think have !money just have large credit accounts.

SnuffleUffleGrass
03-23-2015, 08:41 AM
I don't think so. To me, as long as there are horny clients and there are 7 billion people on the planet I don't see how it's really possible. It's all about supply and demand. A long time ago men would marry ASAP but all the whore houses were still doing very well. During the Great Depression both pussy and cars were top selling items. I think once I stop making good money then I will feel the effects of flooding but right now, not in the least. Also, a lot of new girls are around to try things out and they drop like flies. Those of us who've been in the industry for years have seen better days but I blame that on economics and not necessarily overcrowding.

I agree, back in the day being married but messing around on the side was pretty common but not talked about (much.)

I truly feel like the crap economy has shafted a lot of people. Oddly enough it's a diverse group of victims- even tech and finance jobs can't be counted as "a sure thing" career wise like they used to be. The world has changed very rapidly.

ElleKawaii
03-23-2015, 09:37 AM
I don't know if the market is necessarily flooded in the sex industry. Indeed, there are many more girls who are willing or admitting to doing sex work nowadays, but there are just as many quitting or only doing it very part time. I am a PSO and there are so many people who are surprised that 1. phone sex still exists, and 2. I am actually making a good income working it part-time. At first when I started, I didn't really take it seriously and maybe did it for five hours a week, if that (I have a vanilla job I work from home that pays a comfortable amount). However, when I start getting just a LITTLE bit more serious about working more hours with phone sex, I was absolutely floored how busy I quickly became. I do admit that most of my callers come from the UK and Australia, so phone sex really is gaining popularity in other countries, if not in the US. And I am just working for a dispatch company now. It's to the point now where I have to shit or get off the pot. Either make it a career or continue to just make OK money. Which means I have to now work on branding, blogging, voice clips, and networking so that I can make even more money just working for myself. So while it's slightly harder to make money as a sex worker, in some niches you can still be successful at it.

Melonie
03-23-2015, 01:56 PM
while it's slightly harder to make money as a sex worker, in some niches you can still be successful at it.

Total agreement with the viability / profitability of 'niche market' girls ... as my two very large 'niche market tools' can testify !

By definition, concentrating on a 'niche market' helps the individual girl avoid the flood of competing girls who are attempting to appeal to the 'mass market'.

SnuffleUffleGrass
03-23-2015, 02:03 PM
Granted I'm going back many years but I generally danced at mid level clubs and we attracted all types of men from heads of companies to janitors to college students and everyone else. Most of these clubs I danced at are either closed or are extras clubs. I had a few regulars who were upper income, like the stockbroker who would pay me to dance for him several times a week at his Gold Coast condo in downtown Chicago. He could have hired a prostitute for what he paid and I asked him about that. He told me he could get all the free sex he wanted, he just liked the idea of someone dancing for him. Maybe he was impotent or he liked having fun that wouldn't compromise his stockbroker job.

I think this stockbroker did use the services of escorts, but just liked something about you and wrote off paying you as the cost of getting to know you.

It all really depends. Some wealthy men blow money on themselves & leave very little to spread around. (AKA The guy in the club who has "three houses and two boats" and NO money to tip strippers...) & Some live modestly & have a "play money" budget.

I've noticed some very wealthy guys do come into clubs, but mostly for kicks and on the off chance they might meet someone they get infatuated with (what's one thing you can't buy with money? The experience of "falling in love" even if it's your dick and not your brain doing the talking.) Some wealthy guys are very shy of dealing with escorts for fear of getting blackmailed or burglarized.

Kellydancer
03-23-2015, 07:54 PM
I don't think he used escorts because I met him through someone else and he admitted paying for sex didn't interest him. He could be lying, but he paid well and was very polite to me. That's it too, being rich doesn't mean spending. I've seen known well off customers who were stingy ( a politician comes to mind) and others who spent.

ava$
03-24-2015, 09:01 AM
Yep, it is super flooded! I think it is cause it is more acceptable now than ever for women to be in this industry and younger ppl are just more open about sex where as back in the day from what I hear, it was not so acceptable and ppl were not so open, I think all the sex workers from way back when shoulda just kept there mouths shut about the $$ they made and maybe not everyone would be so willing to do it.

baer45
03-27-2015, 04:24 PM
Men are stupid. So we can always find a way to earn.

SnuffleUffleGrass
03-28-2015, 04:00 AM
I don't think he used escorts because I met him through someone else and he admitted paying for sex didn't interest him. He could be lying, but he paid well and was very polite to me. That's it too, being rich doesn't mean spending. I've seen known well off customers who were stingy ( a politician comes to mind) and others who spent.

Imo he was passing you a little white lie to stay on your good side. I dated a guy who talked all day about how much he loved and respected women & thought sex work was awesome/good for me...& he was still getting private shows from strippers without telling me (my agency boss snitched him out.)

///"tricks are to be tricked"

Melonie
03-28-2015, 05:27 AM
So we can always find a way to earn

This is technically true, obviously. However, the underlying economics just as obviously create a supply and demand equation which both limits the amount of money a particular customer ( or particular class of customers ) can afford to spend in a strip club, as well as determining what level of 'service' those customers expect in exchange for their limited spending. If that supply and demand equation devolves into a club's customers only agreeing to buy 2-3 private dances at $20 each if the particular dancer also provides a HJ/BJ for another $40/$60, yes it is technically true that the particular dancer has indeed found a way to ( continue to ) earn money.

However, other dancers in the same club who are NOT willing to make a HJ/BJ based 'package deal' are also likely to find that their earnings potential is approaching 'minimum wage' levels. This again circles back to the definition of a 'flooded' industry ... i.e. if enough dancers are willing to supply club customers with HJ/BJ 'package deals', such that club customers come to expect 'package deals' in exchange for actually spending their limited dollars, other dancers who are not willing to provide a similar level of 'service' become superfluous.



I think it is cause it is more acceptable now than ever for women to be in this industry and younger ppl are just more open about sex where as back in the day from what I hear, it was not so acceptable and ppl were not so open, I think all the sex workers from way back when shoulda just kept there mouths shut about the $$ they made and maybe not everyone would be so willing to do it.

In terms of the 'flooded industry' topic, the argument can be made that the growing 'flood' of girls who were more open / willing re sex entering the adult entertainment industry over the past decade actually triggered a fundamental change ... from 'show' business to 'sex' business.

Kellydancer
03-28-2015, 09:57 AM
Imo he was passing you a little white lie to stay on your good side. I dated a guy who talked all day about how much he loved and respected women & thought sex work was awesome/good for me...& he was still getting private shows from strippers without telling me (my agency boss snitched him out.)

///"tricks are to be tricked"

Honestly I don't care if he was seeing an escort or not since I wasn't having sex with him. There's no reason we would have had to lie about seeing an escort, we weren't dating or sleeping together. He just paid for me to dance for him, nothing else. I'm not sure how it would have been staying on my good side because I couldn't care less if he was sleeping with women, men or anything else.

thisISbliss
03-28-2015, 11:23 AM
The reality is many dancers, camgirls, escorts etc aren't good at finances. Otherwise we wouldn't see posts like about being homeless, on welfare or unable to leave an abusive man due to finances, to name a few. Of course there are some smart sex workers (to name two Melonie and Michelle) but there are many more who aren't. There comes a time where most women just aren't attractive enough to work in the sex industry. That's not insulting, but a fact. I never said corporate jobs were for everyone, and nowhere did I mention anything about people in corporate jobs struggling. There are plenty of them too, but that's not the topic. Of course there is discrimination in the corporate world.

I agree that many women turn to adult work due to poor money management habits but with experienced dancers that end up in crisis situations a lot of times they are battling depression. Depression is one of those things where you have to truly experience it firsthand in order to understand.

Dancing in particular is a sales job. Like most sales jobs, your earnings are greatly impacted by how consistent you are with customer service. For people who suffer from depression it is a battle just to get out of bed and even put on a smile let alone try to be sexy and smooth at the same time!

I pride myself on my work ethic and when I was "on" the money just came in like a faucet! When the depression came however, my earnings tanked considerably. Basic things like negotiating and managing customer issues became excruciatingly painful.

As a result, I had to come up with coping strategies so that my earnings wouldn't dip below the point where I had to force myself to work when I was unwell. I have a policy where I won't work if I know I can't give the customer a positive pleasant experience and be 100% on point.

Working in a field where you have to exchange time for money is limiting in that you have to show up to get paid. It's one of the reasons now I'm working on building a business that relies more on passive income.

I did get a bit off topic but I just wanted to put that out there because some ladies are wondering "Why work in adult entertainment if you're not going to be banking...or why work if you're going to do it halfway?"

Well, the time/flexibility factor is often a bonus for people battling emotional issues. They have some flexibility in their schedule where they can make time for coping activities like seeing a therapist, going to the spa, or meditating, for instance.

Selina M
03-28-2015, 02:08 PM
I did get a bit off topic but I just wanted to put that out there because some ladies are wondering "Why work in adult entertainment if you're not going to be banking...or why work if you're going to do it halfway?"

Well, the time/flexibility factor is often a bonus for people battling emotional issues. They have some flexibility in their schedule where they can make time for coping activities like seeing a therapist, going to the spa, or meditating, for instance.

Agree with that. I have some kind of cyclical depression where every other month, I crash and don't want to get out of bed for 4-5 days at a time. Definitely appreciate that I don't *have* to go to work when that happens.

On the other hand, if you know you have depression, bipolar, whatever, I think that's even more incentive to really work it when you're "on". You know you could have an episode and miss several days of work, so make the most of when you feel good enough to hustle.

salzsieder67
03-29-2015, 05:08 AM
^Not all men are stupid, some are just horny. Some would say that is worse than being stupid. Either way it puts money in your pocketbook, unless there is too much competition in an area where there is too little money.

HoneyMachado
03-10-2018, 04:13 PM
Yes

Social media has completely glamorized it

ZeroSugarMonster
03-13-2018, 01:32 PM
Yes, but I'd think that it's always been an oversaturated, and hence, competitive industry. Nowadays, it is exponentially more so.

You can go online and look at porn for free. If not for free, then you can pay a tiny fee much less than what you'd pay to go out to a strip club.

You can go on tinder and ge whatever you want there.

While it is considered rape by deception in many other countries and men can be charged criminally for the offense and put in jail (e. g. Israel, which is actually more secular than we realize), in the US, it's totally legit to lie to a woman to get her into bed, then dump her. Happened to me, I don't know how many times. Affairs are also legal and totally legit now with the Ashley Madison bs. "Arrangements" have been normalized.

Also, the economic times are not what they used to be-at least, that's what I keep reading. A full-time summer job flipping burgers is no longer enough to pay for a year's full of tuition at a public university. A college degree is no longer enough to 'make it' in life. Had Diablo Cody graduated post the 2007 economic recession, her memoir about stripping would have been entitled, "I got a useless communications degree in college and it led me to stripping, but thank gawd I come from a privileged background." Higher education costs and costs of health care are increasing at rates way higher than inflation. Jobs are no longer stable, cost of living is going up, everything is just more competitive. So I think more ppl are getting into the industry bc of these economic times, not just bc it's more acceptable nowadays, yet there are less customers to go around.

Also, as a man, in this country, it's de facto legal to rape and get away with it, as long as you are a white man with money. That's food for thought for some of the boys who want more than just to look.

Maybe it's a wrong forum for me to say this, but loose social mores of our times, combined with what is still a very pro-male society, and the economic times past 2007, make our industry super saturated and difficult in which to compete.

We had a rabbit like you
03-15-2018, 11:00 AM
Zombie thread rises again.
Yes but not with hot girls who have a good work ethic and hustle lol.
Greedy clubs nowadays will hire anything with a vagina in clear heels. There are no standards anymore for most places and obviously no training and very limited resources to teach girls how to thrive in this competitive cutthroat industry.
So the few girls who are traditionally attractive I see just sitting with cheap customers letting them grope away for the price of a cocktail or sitting on their phones..and they burn out easy and go home broke. It's hard to make it , you need a lot of different skills to stand out and earn money..