Log in

View Full Version : Does Anyone Else Feel a SPLIT btw



Pages : 1 [2]

Melonie
04-12-2015, 08:17 AM
sorry if that offends you or anyone

Hopefully my posts didn't unintentionally offend you !!!



a declining market is a declining market /:

Outside the Ferrari / Gucci / Neiman-Marcus / 'upscale' big city show club segment of the economy, this is undoubtedly true.



This was just a reminder of how much customers will always want more for less

Perhaps not the case in 'upscale' clubs with a top 10% / top 5% earning customer base. But almost certainly the case in clubs where the customer base earns much less and is thus on a 'tight' budget.



this is something I could have perhaps enjoyed at a simpler time

Indeed I was able to do so back in the late 90's. Things gradually got more 'complicated' through the '00's. And things got so 'complicated' after the 2008 crash that I decided to give up live dancing !



I could be at the top of the chain, and still dread the customers and compete with prostitutes.

This is essentially where I found myself after the 2008 crash ! I was basically faced with a choice of being forced to continue to live near a big city where 'upscale' clubs existed ... and putting up with the bull$#!t factor imposed by those 'upscale' clubs ( outrageous house fees, inflexible schedules, rich a$$hole customers, etc. ), or dealing with increasing customer expectations plus declining earnings potential in less 'upscale' suburban clubs where some number of dancers were routinely offering 'extras'. I chose to do neither.

Selina M
04-12-2015, 12:57 PM
From the clubowner's point of view, if the club is attracting customers who are paying door cover charges and buying drinks, although most are now scumbags, what's the clubowner's motivation to drive those customers away in hopes of eventually attracting 'better quality' customers ? If enough dancers are willing to offer 'extras' to the scumbag customers such that the club is still collecting it's 'cut' of VIP & private dance sales, and if all of the bust risk lies on the 'extras' dancers themselves, what is the clubowner's motivation to actually ban 'extras' ?

There is zero chance that the club's existing dancers would voluntarily agree to help 'finance' the clubowner's additional costs ... via higher house fees, a higher percentage club 'cut' of their VIP / private dance sales etc.

1) This is exactly true. There was a discussion amongst some of the 10+ year vets the other night about how back in the early 2000s in Phoenix, before the dancer license was implemented, that the liquor board would fine the club for inappropriate contact. When they started the dancer license bit, it became entirely our problem if we accidentally went outside the ridiculous city ordinances. In addition, we have some managers that would prefer to lower the contact level, but when Johnny No-Show Owner makes a phone call from his Costa Rican beach house, he tells them to hire more girls and collect more house fees, and the decent managers feel like they have to hire the extras girls...

2) I would disagree. Several of the girls at my club have stated they are perfectly willing to pay a higher house fee if it would mean eliminating some of these problematic girls. I agree as well. A
nother thing I would think to bring up to is that, the way I see it... Using my club's swing shift extras girls and price structure as an example... you hire another girl who kicks in maybe $3-$400 a month in house fees (at $25/day). BUT she does such dirty dances on the floor that nobody ever bothers going to VIP, so you are essentially canceling out her house fee in the form of that customer not paying the $20 or $40 VIP entry that another 'less dirty' dancer could have gotten the customer to cough up... that times however many customers a day, some of whom are converted into a "permanent loss" (i.e., they will never be willing to pay that $20 VIP fee again because they now know they can get high mileage on the floor), and I feel like that dancer is now a net loss in club money. She's also driving down the reputation of the club and big spenders don't want to hang out in a brothel, so there's that. The only person profiting in this scenario is the dirty dancer. To make it worse, in my observations the dirty girls come in very early to where they get free house most of the time, there's no cover charge until 8pm, and their customers are "turn-and-burn" (they buy a $3 Coke to satisfy the drink minimum, see their dancer, and leave right after). The club is making NOTHING off that customer or that girl at that point.

Melonie
04-12-2015, 03:01 PM
^^^ Absentee owners are arguably the worst, since all they see on a regular basis is club revenue.

In terms of dancers chipping in toward rebranding / remodeling, I guess my own experience implied something which isn't the case everywhere. If you're talking about the clubowner spending the better part of 1 million dollars to try to change the club's appearance and image, you're also talking about a major INCREASE in house fees per dancer, or a major INCREASE in the amount of customer money spent on private dances, VIP's, CR etc. that will go to the club instead of the dancer, or some combination of both. Essentially, the clubowner is going to expect a 'guarantee' that his investment will be recovered within a 3 year period at most ... which is the typical approval threshold for business investments these days.

If you're talking about a $500k clubowner investment, versus an average of say 12 dancers per shift and an average of 300 shifts per year, recouping $167k per year from those average 12 dancers over 300 shifts per year would 'cost' each dancer an ADDITIONAL $47 per night on top of the $25 she is already paying in house fee. If we're talking about a $1 million clubowner investment, the 'cost' to each dancer would be an ADDITIONAL $93 per night on top of the $25 she is already paying in house fees. Thus I was talking about a whole different 'league' than a few dancers agreeing to an existing $25 per night house fee being increased to $35 or whatever.



she does such dirty dances on the floor that nobody ever bothers going to VIP, so you are essentially canceling out her house fee in the form of that customer not paying the $20 or $40 VIP entry that another 'less dirty' dancer could have gotten the customer to cough up... that times however many customers a day, some of whom are converted into a "permanent loss" (i.e., they will never be willing to pay that $20 VIP fee again because they now know they can get high mileage on the floor), and I feel like that dancer is now a net loss in club money. She's also driving down the reputation of the club and big spenders don't want to hang out in a brothel, so there's that

Yup, from any rational viewpoint a clubowner allowing this to happen is pure insanity. As you stated, having an 'absentee' owner, and club managers who have zero 'skin in the game' regarding overall club profitability affecting their own earnings, probably explains how this was possible. Ironically, it's also possible that the blatant dirty dancers are actually paying off the managers ( in cash or 'trade' ), which only exacerbates the situation. Indeed these sort of occurrences let the 'genie' out of the proverbial 'bottle', resulting in permanent negative changes in customer expectations thus earnings potential of other dancers who aren't willing to offer 'extras' in the club's main room which those customers now come to expect.

Also, when it gets to the point where blatantly illegal activities are routinely taking place in the club's main room, it usually doesn't take long until LE attention is attracted. Along those lines, given the likely conclusion that most cops won't be sticklers about determining which dancers are actually breaking the law versus which ones aren't, other dancers who aren't willing to offer 'extras' in the club's main room actually face about an equal risk of being busted as the dancers who do !!! After all, when it comes to a jury, neither the word of an 'extras' dancer nor a non-'extras' dancer is going to be believed versus the word of a LE officer. And again, ironically, because the 'extras' dancers arguably have higher earnings potential, they will be more able to hire their own attorneys thus increasing the chances of 'walking away' from a club bust. On the other hand, a non-'extras' dancer who cannot afford to pony up instant money to retain her own attorney - who is thus dependent on a 'public defender' or a 'free' attorney supplied by the club - has increased chances of having to pay a heavy fine or spend a little time as the guest of the county ... not to mention having a 'misdemeanor sex crime' added to her permanent record.

While I never worked in a club situation where blatant 'extras' were being offered in the club's main room, I have been involved in ( bogus ) club bust situations ... which cost me a lot of money to be able to 'walk away' from ... despite the fact that I personally hadn't done anything illegal. This was yet one more factor in my decision to retire from live dancing, because it was becoming clear several years ago that ... outside the well connected 'upscale' big city show clubs anyhow ... 'extras', and the elevated bust risk that goes along with those 'extras', were becoming an increasingly common part of the strip club business model.

Selina M
04-12-2015, 08:45 PM
^ I wasn't referring to a physical overhaul, but more of enforcing contact rules, getting rid of rap music and the young ghetto Saturday afternoon type crowds, etc. If I had my way, I'd get rid of the cook, I feel like food being available only increases the number of freeloaders. Simple things like that. My club is actually very nice and could feel upscale if we just changed the clientele base up a bit and fired some of the "less classy" girls and put up some appearance standards for the rest. It wouldn't require a physical facelift.

Flickdreams
04-13-2015, 05:21 AM
It is very depressing reading this thread- I keep hearing Doooommmmmedddd! DDooooommmmeeeeddddd!

Melonie
04-13-2015, 01:39 PM
It is very depressing reading this thread- I keep hearing Doooommmmmedddd! DDooooommmmeeeeddddd!

Doooommmmmeddd is probably overstating the case.

If you take a historical look, the economic crash of 1907 turned into the 'roaring 20's'. The 1930's great depression turned into the 'nifty fifties'. 1987's 'black monday' crash turned into the dot-com boom of the late 90's. Thus history indicates that the crash of 2008 will 'eventually' be followed by a real economic recovery. Statistically speaking, the time required between crashes and subsequent booms has usually run in the 10 to 20 year range. Thus there's reason to hope that conditions will show some real improvement a few more years down the road.

What's unknown, of course, is what will be 'left' of the strip club business model as we know it by the time the next boom actually arrives.

Optimist
04-13-2015, 03:14 PM
Doooommmmmeddd is probably overstating the case.

If you take a historical look, the economic crash of 1907 turned into the 'roaring 20's'. The 1930's great depression turned into the 'nifty fifties'. 1987's 'black monday' crash turned into the dot-com boom of the late 90's. Thus history indicates that the crash of 2008 will 'eventually' be followed by a real economic recovery. Statistically speaking, the time required between crashes and subsequent booms has usually run in the 10 to 20 year range. Thus there's reason to hope that conditions will show some real improvement a few more years down the road.

What's unknown, of course, is what will be 'left' of the strip club business model as we know it by the time the next boom actually arrives.

I think there will be significant crumbling of corporate club power. I expect there will be a shift back to individually owned clubs because the chains will make too much of a nuisance of themselves with LE. They will continue to drive out the cream of the crop girls which will drive away more moneyed guys. Their high overhead will force them out faster than a samller outfit. Not to mention the lawsuits girls file everyday to get their extorted "fees" back.

michele11
04-13-2015, 03:26 PM
^ not likely since it's almost impossible to get zoning for a club, an adult use license and not mention zoning.

JcMarch
04-13-2015, 04:35 PM
^ I wasn't referring to a physical overhaul, but more of enforcing contact rules, getting rid of rap music and the young ghetto Saturday afternoon type crowds, etc. If I had my way, I'd get rid of the cook, I feel like food being available only increases the number of freeloaders. Simple things like that. My club is actually very nice and could feel upscale if we just changed the clientele base up a bit and fired some of the "less classy" girls and put up some appearance standards for the rest. It wouldn't require a physical facelift.

^^^^ ALL DAY LONG!!!! Yes. Could not agree more. That's exactly the way I feel about my current club, and the whole reason I will NOT be returning to it. I'm currently recovering from BA and I will not be back to that crap hole. It really is a nice club, but the mentality of it has gone so far downhill it's ridiculous. It's actually been the best club I've ever worked at money wise. But anymore... all of the problems you have described above, have turned it into a joke.

arielbriel
04-13-2015, 09:36 PM
Even the 'upscale' customers want MORE. The majority do not want to pay for the rooms without thinking they are getting MORE. The guys on the floor will not buy more than one dance with you if you do not allow them to touch. I move hands every shift and I get "I cant touch??" and I respond "not down here baby, only in the private room". They make a pissed off face and look away or say "im good" implying that they don't even want to pay for the $20 dance. It's outrageous! Yes, you can still make money in the upscale clubs but the upscale club customers assume they're getting a whole lot for the $400/$800 room fee and girls are doing it- That's the thing.

michele11
04-14-2015, 12:18 PM
Even the 'upscale' customers want MORE. The majority do not want to pay for the rooms without thinking they are getting MORE. The guys on the floor will not buy more than one dance with you if you do not allow them to touch. I move hands every shift and I get "I cant touch??" and I respond "not down here baby, only in the private room". They make a pissed off face and look away or say "im good" implying that they don't even want to pay for the $20 dance. It's outrageous! Yes, you can still make money in the upscale clubs but the upscale club customers assume they're getting a whole lot for the $400/$800 room fee and girls are doing it- That's the thing.

Ny is the worst. Which is why I don't bother anymore. Honestly today the upscale clubs aren't any different. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig...

Melonie
04-14-2015, 01:03 PM
Ny is the worst. Which is why I don't bother anymore. Honestly today the upscale clubs aren't any different. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig...

If there is a difference, it's that the tell-tale 'lipstick' transfer by the 'pigs' only happens in the VIP room / CR ... while the club's façade and main room continue to exude a respectable, upscale image to LE, the local neighborhood, and 'new' customers !!!


not likely since it's almost impossible to get zoning for a club, an adult use license and not mention zoning

I agree, but for somewhat different reasons. Corporate clubs have the 'deep pockets' to have attorneys and lobbyists advocate / litigate their position with local and state courts and politicians. Individual club owners, generally speaking, can't afford this.

Corporate clubs also have the 'credibility' to attract investor money ... not only due to their corporate structure but also because their 'loss risk' as a result of LE busts / lawsuits / changes in local laws isn't tied to a single club. Individual club owners have 'all their eggs in one basket', where one 'cracked egg' could very well force the club out of business.

While there's no hard proof of this, I would speculate that many individual clubowners already 'see the handwriting on the wall' in regard to their rising 'costs of doing business' ( property tax, utility bills, insurance costs, etc. ) versus a declining amount of club customer total spending dollars walking in the club's front door with each passing month. Those individual clubowners also likely realize that the 'risk factors' of a successful 'employee' dancer lawsuit, a strict new local anti-strip club ordinance, unappreciative neighbors potentially stirring up problems with local politicians and LE, etc. could quickly bankrupt the club.

As a result, it is arguable that individual clubowners are now more willing than ever to 'take chances', if doing so will increase the club's income in the short term. If that means turning a blind eye to 'extras', and hiring as many 'extras' girls as possible, from a short term viewpoint taking such a chance could result in increased short term income with little additional 'down side' risk ( compared to other 'risk factors' the club already faces )

stripperMBA
04-14-2015, 10:50 PM
One of the things that drives me crazy and is driving me out of the industry is how hard it is to get a customer kicked out these days. Asking for drugs, pushing a dancer, throwing bottlecaps a dancers, asking for sex outside club, and taking photos are all things customers should be evicted for. But in the past five years and in the past three clubs I worked at allowed customers to stay with just a bullshit verbal warning. If clubs were stricter then customers would not have become conditioned into believing the could get away with anything. When i first started dancing in 2002 customers seemed to have a healthy fear of the bouncers. They certainly do not have that anymore and it definantly shows. But like melanie says I think can be tied to shrinking revenues and the clubs feeling like they just need warm bodies in the club. In the DFW area there is still money to be made but it is a lot tighter and there are more slow days than I can put up with now. Many girls I work with owe back housefees. I only dance two or three days and cam now. i can barely put up with what goes on now. Leaving the stripclub soon.

Melonie
04-15-2015, 02:08 AM
But in the past five years and in the past three clubs I worked at allowed customers to stay with just a bullshit verbal warning. If clubs were stricter then customers would not have become conditioned into believing the could get away with anything

As you point out, if clubs were stricter, some number of customers would indeed be shown the door as a result of their ( what was once upon a time considered ) unacceptable behavior. However, as you also point out, the likely consequence would be that those customers ... as well as different customers witnessing such customer 'treatment' by club management and bouncers ... would choose never to return to that club. Alternately, those customers would have a pretty good idea of what they will NOT be getting if they spend money on private dances, VIP, etc.

In fairness to clubowners, those 'slow days' also mean that fewer customers are paying cover charges, fewer bar drinks are being purchased, fewer VIP's are being purchased, etc. ... all of which reduce the club's earnings right along with the dancers' earnings. And unlike dancers, a clubowner does not have the 'luxury' of simply packing up a dance bag and seeking out a different club with better earnings potential. The clubowner is 'stuck' paying the same or higher property taxes, utility bills, attorney / accountant / maintenance contractor fees, etc. at the same time the club's revenues / earnings are declining. As such, clubowners are now very unlikely to do anything that would further exacerbate their club's declining revenues / earnings, and are more likely to try / allow anything which might result in a short term increase in revenues / earnings.

And that includes trying / allowing things which are not in the club's or dancers long term best interest. But, somewhat understandably, cash-strapped clubowners aren't going to worry about possible negative effects happening a year down the road when they face an immediate issue of making the club's mortgage payment, utility bill payment, etc. one month down the road.



Many girls I work with owe back housefees

I hate to bring this up, but are the girls who now owe back house fees willing to offer 'extras' to club customers ? I assume not. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the imposition of significant house fees by clubowners actually has a two-fold purpose. The first is obviously to directly generate some additional revenues / income for the club. But the second is arguably to provide an incentive for 'clean' dancers to gradually change their personal view towards 'extras' ... and either start providing 'extras' themselves in order to be able to afford to continue working as dancers, or to quit and make room for other dancers who are far more comfortable offering 'extras'.

Like it or not, once the 'genie' has been let out of the 'bottle', customers expecting 'extras' plus some number of dancers being willing to provide 'extras' means that remaining 'clean' dancers are likely to have far more difficulty generating revenues / earnings for both themselves as well as for the club. Thus cash-strapped clubowners may increasingly view 'clean' dancers as more of a liability than an asset, since 'extras' girls sell more private dances, VIP's etc. from which the club also receives revenues / earnings. This is the underlying economic principle behind my assessment that the exotic dancing industry will wind up being split into 'upscale' big city clubs where 'extras' aren't ( at least obviously ) present, plus neighborhood / suburban clubs where 'extras' are an increasingly essential part of the club's business model.

Nyla19
04-15-2015, 01:00 PM
the low-rent behavior of customers even at top clubs vs the Upscale image we are required to portray? :-\ I've been feeling a lot of cognitive dissonance putting time into great makeup, hair, gown/dresses, expensive heels, etc. while dealing with bottom barrel, handsy, demeaning, and cheaptastic custies. I'm feeling like we have to be like models to have the privilege of being treated like crack hos on the crappiest stroll known to man! Not sure if my expectations are to high or if it's gotten funkier... IDK Even though I'm still making money it's just not the joyous experience it usually is. yes! I can relate to this 100%!

Jay12
05-05-2015, 03:15 PM
I've noticed this. Even in upscale clubs, as soon as a customer tells me that I look "classy", I can't seem to make any money.

It's like being expensive-looking is now the stripper kiss of death.


Yet, last year the craze on this site was "help me to look upscale/high end/expensive": those threads were everywhere!!!! It seems that this year's trend is to be the complete opposite!!!

TiffTiff
05-05-2015, 04:03 PM
I have been at both sides. I worked at an upscale club with a $75 house fee, $25 house mom fee who did everyone's makeup the exact same (but it was mandatory that we all had the "smokey eyes"???), the dj fee, attendant fee, etc etc...I had to make $150 before any money was actually mine. I had to spend an hour on my hair and nails, the gowns I bought were in the hundreds....what did I go home with on a typical thursday shift after pay outs? $180. FUCK THAT. I took my ass to a lower end club (basically a bar with a champagne room) and was making $300 after $30 in fees and did my own makeup in 15 minutes. Guess what happened one friday night when we had a packed house and I put on my $200 gown and $150 glittery shoes and went on their stage? I got called a snob, a stuck up bitch and I got 2 dances all night. So, now I buy $6 bikinis on ebay, some cute skirts or tube dresses for $12 and keep my $2-300 profit on weeknights.

Optimist
05-07-2015, 01:23 PM
I have been at both sides. I worked at an upscale club with a $75 house fee, $25 house mom fee who did everyone's makeup the exact same (but it was mandatory that we all had the "smokey eyes"???), the dj fee, attendant fee, etc etc...I had to make $150 before any money was actually mine. I had to spend an hour on my hair and nails, the gowns I bought were in the hundreds....what did I go home with on a typical thursday shift after pay outs? $180. FUCK THAT. I took my ass to a lower end club (basically a bar with a champagne room) and was making $300 after $30 in fees and did my own makeup in 15 minutes. Guess what happened one friday night when we had a packed house and I put on my $200 gown and $150 glittery shoes and went on their stage? I got called a snob, a stuck up bitch and I got 2 dances all night. So, now I buy $6 bikinis on ebay, some cute skirts or tube dresses for $12 and keep my $2-300 profit on weeknights.

I've had a similar experience. I took my lovely dresses and skirts to another gentlemen's club. I saw the cheaper costumes the other girls had and thought, "WOW, I'm gonna clean up!" Nope. I got a lot of uncomfortable fidgeting. Men sitting ramrod straight when I sat down. Lot's of ""You're such a nice girl, what are you doing here??" I took off my makeup,lashes, dresses and put on bikinis and made the same money I would at an upscale club. Gowns aren't a guarantee of more money. I used to rock the dresses and get the money of high rollers and one by one they retired from club going--or cut back sharply. I'm not above working dives because you can still g it up in them.

Melonie
05-08-2015, 06:34 AM
I had to make $150 before any money was actually mine. I had to spend an hour on my hair and nails, the gowns I bought were in the hundreds....what did I go home with on a typical thursday shift after pay outs? $180. FUCK THAT. I took my ass to a lower end club (basically a bar with a champagne room) and was making $300 after $30 in fees and did my own makeup in 15 minutes. Guess what happened one friday night when we had a packed house and I put on my $200 gown and $150 glittery shoes and went on their stage? I got called a snob, a stuck up bitch and I got 2 dances all night. So, now I buy $6 bikinis on ebay, some cute skirts or tube dresses for $12 and keep my $2-300 profit on weeknights.


I took my lovely dresses and skirts to another gentlemen's club. I saw the cheaper costumes the other girls had and thought, "WOW, I'm gonna clean up!" Nope. I got a lot of uncomfortable fidgeting. Men sitting ramrod straight when I sat down. Lot's of ""You're such a nice girl, what are you doing here??" I took off my makeup,lashes, dresses and put on bikinis and made the same money I would at an upscale club. Gowns aren't a guarantee of more money. I used to rock the dresses and get the money of high rollers and one by one they retired from club going--or cut back sharply. I'm not above working dives because you can still g it up in them.

This was always my own 'bottom line' as well ... working in an upscale club only mattered if the 'net' amount of money you were able to walk out of the club with at the end of the night was more than the 'net' amount available at a neighborhood / suburban club !!!

Your point about a decreasing number of 'high roller' customers is also true ... and arguably a side-effect of the demographic / relative earnings changes I posted about earlier. With isolated exceptions, it's just a fact these days that the earnings power of younger guys isn't going to equal the earnings power of the older guys they are 'replacing'. As time marches forward, more and more higher earnings potential older guys are ceasing to be strip club customers, with more and more lower earnings potential younger guys are taking their place.

Again with isolated exceptions, where 'upscale' clubs are concerned, in many case the lower earnings potential younger guys simply can't afford to pay the high prices charged. This in turn can reduce the overall dancer earnings potential available in those 'upscale' clubs as higher earnings potential older customers retire etc. but are not replaced 'in kind'. Unfortunately, 'upscale' club management has yet to come to terms with this demographic shift, and continues to expect dancers to pay house fees, tipouts etc. which are arguably no longer in line with dancer earnings potential.

The flip side of this is that many lower earnings potential younger guys do not hold 'upscale' expectations when patronizing neighborhood / suburban clubs. Thus dancers who attempt to appeal to 'upscale' customer demand in neighborhood / suburban clubs are likely to find few takers these days.

Optimist
05-08-2015, 10:17 AM
The flip side of this is that many lower earnings potential younger guys do not hold 'upscale' expectations when patronizing neighborhood / suburban clubs. Thus dancers who attempt to appeal to 'upscale' customer demand in neighborhood / suburban clubs are likely to find few takers these days.

Another issue is they often refuse to abide by upscale behavioral expectations. You don't watch a girl with a gown walk by and smack her on the ass like you're in a lowbrow honky-tonk. The smart clubs warn and throw out guys who act this way. The dumb ones allow the brokest, angriest young guys to dictate and degrade the mood of the entire place. Once girls see that that treatment is the thanks they get for going all out in their presentation, there's no reason to stay for that lopsided equation of giving 100% and receiving 30% treatment and money in return.

Melonie
05-09-2015, 10:56 AM
The dumb ones allow the brokest, angriest young guys to dictate and degrade the mood of the entire place. Once girls see that that treatment is the thanks they get for going all out in their presentation, there's no reason to stay for that lopsided equation of giving 100% and receiving 30% treatment and money in return.

Absolutely true !!! But, as I stated earlier, 'dumb' clubowners who are attempting to maximize club income in the short term by whatever means available ( including catering to low-brow customers ), with little or no cares about the long term consequences, may not be so 'dumb' after all. The question really boils down to the future economic viability of suburban / neighborhood strip clubs which try to stick to the 'old' business model of limiting 'extras', limiting customer behavior, etc. If clubowners are seeing the 'old' business model resulting in a slow downhill slide toward bankruptcy, it's understandable that some of those clubowners will decide to try the 'new' business model i.e. the club earning money based on customer 'volume' ( i.e. cover charges, drink minimums ) and the club earning money as a ( indirect ) result of dancers offering 'extras'. As long as such clubowners don't have problems finding enough new dancers who are willing to put up with '30% treatment' ( as you put it ) ...

Optimist
05-09-2015, 05:01 PM
Absolutely true !!! But, as I stated earlier, 'dumb' clubowners who are attempting to maximize club income in the short term by whatever means available ( including catering to low-brow customers ), with little or no cares about the long term consequences, may not be so 'dumb' after all. The question really boils down to the future economic viability of suburban / neighborhood strip clubs which try to stick to the 'old' business model of limiting 'extras', limiting customer behavior, etc. If clubowners are seeing the 'old' business model resulting in a slow downhill slide toward bankruptcy, it's understandable that some of those clubowners will decide to try the 'new' business model i.e. the club earning money based on customer 'volume' ( i.e. cover charges, drink minimums ) and the club earning money as a ( indirect ) result of dancers offering 'extras'. As long as such clubowners don't have problems finding enough new dancers who are willing to put up with '30% treatment' ( as you put it ) ...

It's a dumb model based on: They are already having issues finding girls willing to put up with the bs. Less decent girls less high spending guys. Across the country they are burning out the quality dancers and being stuck with bottom level 'practically off the track' girls and setting themselves up to be closed down. This business model (for 30 years) has made this industry skyrocket to a multi billion dollar income level the old 'seedy whorehouse' business model from the 60s and 70s couldn't touch. No one in their right mind would regress back to the 70s model. Less money, less legal stability, the new grubby reality.

Melonie
05-09-2015, 08:14 PM
Less decent girls less high spending guys. Across the country they are burning out the quality dancers and being stuck with bottom level 'practically off the track' girls and setting themselves up to be closed down.

From a personal standpoint, I hear you regarding the new 'grubby reality' !!! This is one of the reasons I decided to retire from live dancing, and this situation has only worsened over the past couple of years.

However, from the standpoint of a self-centered clubowner, he arguably doesn't give two s#!ts about 'quality' dancers. What the clubowner cares about are short term profits at sufficient levels to keep his club from slowly sliding into bankruptcy. 'Quality' dancers only contribute to that outcome if they are able to attract customers, but are also able to convince those customers to part with money in ways which also result in the club getting a significant 'cut'. From that clubowner's viewpoint, 'quality' dancers and 'off the truck' dancers both pay the same amount of house fees. From the clubowner's viewpoint, 'quality' dancers selling relatively few VIP's etc. are a liability versus 'off the truck' dancers selling more VIP's thanks to offering 'extras' at low prices. From the clubowner's viewpoint, one upscale customer attracted by 'quality' dancers results in just half as much club revenue from cover charges, drink minimum etc. than two downscale customers attracted by the affordable 'extras' being offered by 'off the truck' dancers.



This business model (for 30 years) has made this industry skyrocket to a multi billion dollar income level the old 'seedy whorehouse' business model from the 60s and 70s couldn't touch

Arguably, the success of this now 'old' strip club business model depended on several factors which have been declining in recent years. The primary factor was a large cross-section of strip club customers having relatively high amounts of 'discretionary' spending dollars available. As the cost of 'necessities' like taxes, insurance, energy, food etc. have increased, while the expected earnings level of younger strip club customers has decreased, there simply aren't as many 'discretionary' dollars available for spending in strip clubs ( or anywhere else ). From the subjective viewpoint of a younger strip club customer on a limited budget, affordable 'extras' are increasingly important for persuading them to spend their limited 'discretionary' dollars.

xxxGothBarbie
05-10-2015, 07:56 PM
^ I agree with most of everything here, esp the fact of how most clubs nowadays are allowing such thuggish wannabe non spending types inside an upscale club. I've been at my current club for over a year with a few months off for a much needed break & each time i return I notice the quality has gone downhill & the guys have gotten to be extremely disrespectful to most of us myself included bc I don't hang out for free with them like some of the other girls I work with & so they "refuse" to tip or even get dances with those that have wasted the entire night sitting with them. ugh. I'm beyond disgusted. Meanwhile a year ago my mngr wouldn't charge us house fees after 10 pm but now we get charged if we show up at 9pm wtf?! This weekend alone I prob made about $115 each night & I was exhausted afterward. The house fees really suck bc if I'm only getting $70 out of each 3-100 dance then they're extorting $30 house fee on top of it, I leave feeling pissed off & as if I've worked for nothing. Then they have the audacity to remind us of the white envelope which involves "tips to the host", which I never ever participate in. It sucks though bc it's literally the only club close to my area that's not gonna suck up more gas & force me to have to pay for a parking fee in the city where extras are pretty rampant. It's def a double edged sword these days. I've felt the decline over the last 4 years mostly. Also what's up with all of these clubs these days making you obtain a business license? ugh!

Melonie
05-11-2015, 02:59 AM
what's up with all of these clubs these days making you obtain a business license? ugh!

The club is performing CYA in advance in regard to potential future 'employee dancer' lawsuits, potential future club tax and benefit problems, etc. Forcing dancers to apply for business licenses firms up their status as self-employed independent contractor business operators, thus minimizing risks that the club could be held responsible for retroactively paying dancers tipped minimum wage, for providing health insurance coverage to dancers working more than 28 hours per week, etc.



the fact of how most clubs nowadays are allowing such thuggish wannabe non spending types inside an upscale club. I've been at my current club for over a year with a few months off for a much needed break & each time i return I notice the quality has gone downhill & the guys have gotten to be extremely disrespectful to most of us myself included bc I don't hang out for free with them like some of the other girls I work with & so they "refuse" to tip or even get dances with those that have wasted the entire night sitting with them. ugh. I'm beyond disgusted. Meanwhile a year ago my mngr wouldn't charge us house fees after 10 pm but now we get charged if we show up at 9pm wtf?! This weekend alone I prob made about $115 each night & I was exhausted afterward. The house fees really suck bc if I'm only getting $70 out of each 3-100 dance then they're extorting $30 house fee on top of it, I leave feeling pissed off & as if I've worked for nothing.

Again, from the point of view of a self-centered clubowner, every one of those thuggish wannabes is paying the club's cover charge and is buying the club's minimum number of drinks. Also, despite a more 'difficult' environment for dancer earnings, every one of those dancers is paying the club's house fee ! Thus in raw dollar terms, the club itself is earning more revenues from the large number of thuggish wannabes than it would have earned from half as many 'good' customers, and the club is also earning the same or more revenues via ( increased ) house fees.

Granted that dancer earnings potential winds up being reduced significantly as thuggish wannabe customers 'take over' the club and drive 'good' customers away, but from the viewpoint of the self-centered clubowner that's a problem for the dancers not for the club !!! And as long as the club can still find enough new dancers who are willing to pay house fees and keep coming back to the club for $100 a night in 'net' earnings, the clubowner is right !!!

This is arguably the essence of the successful 'new' business model for suburban / neighborhood clubs ... lots of downscale customers paying higher total dollar amounts in cover charges and drink minimums, and lots of 'average' dancers paying ( relatively high ) house fees. From the viewpoint of the dancers, this 'new' business model reduces the dancer earnings potential available for girls who are 'just' offering dances - sometimes to the point where such dancers wind up with 'net' earnings potential that no longer makes dancing 'worth it'. However, some number of dancers are undoubtedly comfortable with 'restoring' their previous earnings potential via offering 'extras' to those downscale customers ... which the downscale customers then come to expect from every dancer. And that is likely to lead to a competitive situation where dancers who aren't willing to offer 'extras' may be driven out of the club / industry because they can simply no longer earn enough money from 'just dancing' to be worth the ongoing time and effort.

xxxGothBarbie
05-11-2015, 06:12 PM
^ Actually my club sometimes won't even charge a cover at the door on slower nights , but they do make them buy at least one drink, so yes i agree that the mngmt is indeed very desperate in terms of headcount thru the door on certain nights.