View Full Version : What would you have done? (Be Honest)
LegoMoney
05-06-2015, 11:44 AM
I totally drink at work. I make more money that way. It's just a fact. But apparently on here everyone is either sober or "a lil' tipsy". I don't drive to/from work, so I have no issues drinking with customers. I also agree it is the CLUB'S responsibility to cut him off if he is overly intoxicated.
It's the customer's responsibility and the club's. You're right. But, nobody is there to babysit you in the strip club. Period. Dancers are employees of the club, and no one babysits us! You're expected to know your limits, and conduct yourself appropriately.
This is how I see it. Stealing is wrong. Selling rooms and dances to drunk customers isn't stealing or wrong. Plus, there is no way to monitor "how drunk" a customer is NOR is that our job.
Should we walk around with breathalyzers or make them do roadside sobriety walking tests on the way to the VIP room?
I. Think. Not.
michele11
05-06-2015, 11:49 AM
I totally drink at work. I make more money that way. It's just a fact. But apparently on here everyone is either sober or "a lil' tipsy". I don't drive to/from work, so I have no issues drinking with customers. I also agree it is the CLUB'S responsibility to cut him off if he is overly intoxicated.
I drink too. But she said she was intoxicated and so was he. I'm not bashing drinking that's how i make most my money in vip. I just worked at a place were we have to blow breathalyzers and so I had to only have a few drinks per shift. But two intoxicated peole in vip doesn't help the situaltion obviously since what happened happened. Hmm you've always said in your posts you absolutely don;t drink at work? Did tht change?
michele11
05-06-2015, 11:56 AM
I find this mentality to be the root of why there are so many problems in the SC environment in the first place -- by problems, for starters I mean ROB behaviour by customers, dancers, & club staff alike (not to mention the rates of sexual assault experienced by dancers, & the fact that so little is done to protect us & punish the offenders, but that's another rant). Further, I find it curious that you would make a statement like this ^^^^ & in the same paragraph, first brag abt selling a VIP to any drunk MF'er that agrees but then backtrack & say that stealing is wrong. Talk abt wanting it both ways ...
I agree w/ Naida's points above, likening date rape to the incident described by the OP. I agree w/ her stance that, regardless of the action, or how intoxicated a person is, they don't deserve to be taken for everything they've got, in any sense of the expression. The debate that's sprung up in this thread brought to my mind the CF over in Camming Connection a few months ago, abt the cam girl that answered the door naked for the pizza delivery guy. I also agree w/ Kira, & had similar experiences myself w/ ppl I knew, that it can be very tricky to know when to draw the line, & rightfully make a decision on behalf of another person who is too fk'd up to do it themselves.
That said, back to OP's experience -- a lot of girls are getting into her shit bc she refused the VIP. Personally, I can see why she declined, & I have to side w/ her in this case. The guy was so drunk that he literally couldn't keep track of which notes were singles & which were 20s, much less keep a handle on them. A customer like that can cause all sorts of problems in VIP, which I'm surprised that sm of the more seasoned dancers in this thread don't seem to have considered: there's the possibility he could have been exaggerating his lvl of inebriation, w/ the intent of getting OP alone in a room & assaulting her; he could have accused her of trying to rip him off bc he was so drunk that he misunderstood her honest quote for the room & raised a major stink w/ mgmt over it; he could have been toasted to the point of not just passing out while in the room w/ her, but needing medical attention that OP is not qualified to recognise, much less give. Any number of things could have gone wrong.
How many times have we all seen or written on this board abt the importance of listening to our gut instincts? OP obviously had one abt this customer, telling her that for whatever reason, taking him to VIP was a bad idea. It surprises me that she is getting such criticism for following one of the most common pieces of advice that we give each other, purely bc it meant losing out on $$$$.
Then she should of never danced for him period. Lol. If you are a seasoned dancer you should know who you can take to vip and like I said deflect a bad situation if it should arrise. Honestly some clubs vip is more monitered so she would have been fine and he seemed harmless besides the licking which like I said she could of brought him up there to sober up and just talked , got him water. The most vocal in here don't even dance anymore. Sheesh.
Aniela
05-06-2015, 12:15 PM
Then she should of never danced for him period. Lol. If you are a seasoned dancer you should know who you can take to vip and like I said deflect a bad situation if it should arrise. Honestly some clubs vip is more monitered so she would have been fine and he seemed harmless besides the licking which like I said she could of brought him up there to sober up and just talked , got him water. The most vocal in here don't even dance anymore. Sheesh.
Wow -- I guess all of us should have you on SpeedDial so we can defer to you when we have questions abt whether it's a good idea to take a customer to VIP! Genius! /sarcasm_off
You aren't the only 'seasoned dancer' here, & given the amt of time you've been dancing yourself, you would probably know better than anyone else how quickly a situation can sm times escalate from We're All Good to Uh...NO to Oh Shit. You would also know better than anyone else here, given the phenomenal number of different areas you've worked in, how clubs don't always side w/ the dancer in a dispute, esp a club that refuses to cut-off a customer who's had too much to drink.
OP knows her club, & knew her particular situation, better than anyone else here, including you :shocking: I didn't see anything in her post indicating how closely monitored their VIP is, or what kind of support she could expect from club staff if smtg went awry. Of course the customer seems harmless to you, when you weren't there. Smtg abt the situation seemed off to her, whether it was on a moral or safety or $$-related note, so OP followed her gut & kept VIP off the table. Sounds like the possible payoff simply wasn't worth the headache of dealing w/ this guy, or whatever other risk she saw in the moment that we don't since none of us were there.
kirakonstantin
05-06-2015, 12:31 PM
It's not even that the OP refused the VIP. It's her life and her business. She can do what she wants. What pisses me off is the holier than though judgement about taking advantage of these poor widdle customers and how a dancer who would take him to VIP is a greedy shrew who's racking up bad karma. Unless you work in a juice bar and smell everyone's breath for booze before you dance, you've potentially done the same thing you're looking down on other's for.
An inability to keep money organized... fuck, the day my wallet and purse don't look like a bomb went off is the day Jesus is going to come back. And this is me, stone cold sober.
michele11
05-06-2015, 12:59 PM
Wow -- I guess all of us should have you on SpeedDial so we can defer to you when we have questions abt whether it's a good idea to take a customer to VIP! Genius! /sarcasm_off
You aren't the only 'seasoned dancer' here, & given the amt of time you've been dancing yourself, you would probably know better than anyone else how quickly a situation can sm times escalate from We're All Good to Uh...NO to Oh Shit. You would also know better than anyone else here, given the phenomenal number of different areas you've worked in, how clubs don't always side w/ the dancer in a dispute, esp a club that refuses to cut-off a customer who's had too much to drink.
OP knows her club, & knew her particular situation, better than anyone else here, including you :shocking: I didn't see anything in her post indicating how closely monitored their VIP is, or what kind of support she could expect from club staff if smtg went awry. Of course the customer seems harmless to you, when you weren't there. Smtg abt the situation seemed off to her, whether it was on a moral or safety or $$-related note, so OP followed her gut & kept VIP off the table. Sounds like the possible payoff simply wasn't worth the headache of dealing w/ this guy, or whatever other risk she saw in the moment that we don't since none of us were there.
Yes and because I'm a sesasoned dancer i've never had an issue. No one knows the whole situation we can only summise. As so i've said. And the general consensus is the same in here amongst us seasoned money makers...
kaninchen
05-06-2015, 02:42 PM
What pisses me off is the holier than though judgement about taking advantage of these poor widdle customers and how a dancer who would take him to VIP is a greedy shrew who's racking up bad karma. Unless you work in a juice bar and smell everyone's breath for booze before you dance, you've potentially done the same thing you're looking down on other's for.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I don't understand how this is even an issue. Plus, I've read posts on this forum before praising alcohol clubs because "drunk customers are easier to hustle." How is that any different? Furthermore, umm, why was this incident suddenly problematic when ALL of Hustle Hut is devoted to getting reluctant customers to empty their bank accounts?
Let she who has never talked a sober customer into spending his rent money on her cast the first stone!
carmen_b
05-06-2015, 02:53 PM
On the few 20s he dropped, I would have taken those for sure.
Then I would have taken more ( up front ) for dances or VIP ( whichever would have yeilded more based on club cut ).
Oh... Now I read $400 fell out. I would have tried to smoothly take those by saying " ok, you get dances or VIP now ".
We weren't there.... But I can tell you that you had a sweet way to boost your earnings by $460 but it sounds like you only got $60ish of the $460 available. I'll just leave it there.
Kochana
05-06-2015, 04:26 PM
What does that have to do with this thread. Nola and all the VCG clubs I work do that too. Doesn't mean the guy still won't be a PIA.
No but I feel it absolves me of supposed responsibility. They were able to sign, it's not on me. If they're a PITA I just tell my host and leave the room.
Naida
05-06-2015, 04:28 PM
So it was ok for her to take his money for dances but not vip? This thread is crazy and I like the other posters comment" it sys a lot about you that you cared about his well being ". Really so if we girls who know how to make money and defelct bad situations take a drunk guy to vip were immoral assholes????
At the risk of being offensive to anyone here, yes, taking a customer to VIP when your gut instinct is "this guy is too wasted to understand what he's doing" does make someone an immoral asshole. When your instinct is that a person cannot look out for themselves and you make the conscious decision to take advantage of that, it's wrong.
I can't take some moral high ground and pretend that I've never danced for heavily intoxicated customers, because I have. I'm sure everyone here has. We all know that drunk customers are looser with their wallets because alcohol is a disinhibitor. Most of the guys who come to the clubs want to get a bit uninhibited with a pretty, naked woman. If we all stopped dancing for drunk customers, most of us would go broke! Have I possibly danced for customers who were too wasted to look out for their own well-being? It's possible, because that is a risk that comes with dancing for customers who have been drinking. But I have never and will never purposely hustle a customer that I believe is too wasted to take care of himself.
I know that I'm in the minority on this, and that probably won't change during my time in the industry, but I hate the reputation that sort of attitude has gotten dancers. When I was a kid in the 90s, before the housing and dotcom bubbles burst and when the money was still good according to the hardened vets, I was always taught that strippers were immoral for the same reasons sluts and party girls were. I was a teenager post-bubble the first time I heard infrequent rumors about "I/so-and-so went to insert-club-or-city and got ripped off by one of the strippers;" it was always "one of" and not dancers in general back then. Since I became a dancer at the height of the Great Recession, it's only gotten worse - even nearly seven years after the economy tanked and begun to bounce back, the idea that all strippers are ROBs/thieves/etc has become even more prevalent than ever. As a "seasoned veteran," obviously much more so than myself and I'm not exactly a spring chicken anymore in terms of how long most girls do this job, you can't possibly tell me that girls who purposely take advantage of customers they believe can't make good decisions does anything to help that opinion of dancers. I'm sick and tired of people thinking that we - that I - are "greedy shrews" who lack a sense of what's right and wrong because of our job titles.
So yes, I commend the hell out of OP for trusting her gut and doing what she thought was right. We can split hairs over her doing the dances outside VIP, but I'm sure that customer is a lot less annoyed about losing $75 to a dancer who was otherwise honest enough to not take him for 100's and made sure he got home safely than he would be if she had taken advantage of him.
Vackra
05-06-2015, 05:00 PM
I drink too. But she said she was intoxicated and so was he. I'm not bashing drinking that's how i make most my money in vip. I just worked at a place were we have to blow breathalyzers and so I had to only have a few drinks per shift. But two intoxicated peole in vip doesn't help the situaltion obviously since what happened happened. Hmm you've always said in your posts you absolutely don;t drink at work? Did tht change?
I don't think I've ever said that, I've said I don't drink excessively but especially when I am working in Europe, all the money making is done by drink selling.
DesuvsDeath
05-06-2015, 05:24 PM
I would've taken every last cent he had, particularly if he were grabby and trying to fucking lick me. It's called 'scumbag' tax: if you're going to treat me like *I'm* not a person... I'm not going to treat you like you are either.
DreamsInDigital
05-06-2015, 05:27 PM
Okay....the guy walked into a strip club with $400+ in cash. Who even does that unless they are planning to spend the money? Most guys I have encountered will purposely not bring more than they intend to spend bc they know they could get themselves in trouble that way. I would absolutely have taken him to VIP and tried to get every last $$ he had - and I wouldn't have felt the least bit bad about it, bc he sounds like he was super annoying to deal with in the first place. But still, I definitely would have EARNED that money rather than just stealing it, because imo stealing is wrong no matter what kind of job you have.
I also feel the need to point out that the title of this thread is, "What Would You Have Done? (Be Honest.)" Just because some dancers are posting things on here that conflict with the OP's decision, it doesn't mean that anyone is telling her she's wrong or judging her for the decision she made. We're all just answering the question honestly, which is what she asked for. Imo we are each businesswomen with the capabilities to make our own, individual decisions about how we want to run our business. The OP should feel free to conduct herself as she sees fit.
kirakonstantin
05-06-2015, 05:29 PM
Ok, Naida... you say that you can't pass judgement but then do EXACTLY that. And then admit that you've done it yourself. There's a pot that's dying to meet you.
If you want to kid yourself that you're better than than the rest of us, have fun with that.
kaninchen
05-06-2015, 05:39 PM
At the risk of being offensive to anyone here, yes, taking a customer to VIP when your gut instinct is "this guy is too wasted to understand what he's doing" does make someone an immoral asshole. When your instinct is that a person cannot look out for themselves and you make the conscious decision to take advantage of that, it's wrong.
As OP described it, this man a) specifically stated he wanted to buy more dances or do a VIP, b) had the cash ready in his wallet, and c) it was only $400 -- if he makes $40k/year that's 1% of his income! I don't think the situation warrants a rape comparison at all, nor do I think that any dancer who would have taken him to the VIP deserves to be called greedy or immoral.
I would agree with you if he had had less control of the situation. For example, if he had been so drunk that he passed out and a dancer decided to take his card to the ATM and withdraw until she got an insufficient funds message. But that's not what happened.
Yes, alcohol can impair your judgement. But does a 100% sober man always make the best financial choice in a strip club? No. Of course not. You know what they say about men only having enough blood to think with one head. Seriously, what is hustling but not taking no for an answer? This scenario, with the customer showing an active desire to spend his money, likely has less coercion than a dancer who keeps pressuring a sober customer to just buy a few more dances.
It's literally our job to entertain customers and be paid as much as possible for it. At no point in time did he attempt to curtail his spending, and $400 is highly unlikely to bankrupted him. So where is the harm done or the advantage taken?
michele11
05-06-2015, 05:39 PM
I don't think I've ever said that, I've said I don't drink excessively but especially when I am working in Europe, all the money making is done by drink selling.
I must of confused you sorry.
KikiGem
05-06-2015, 05:40 PM
Wow, seems like some people here are really convinced of their moral superiority. So let's start burning these "sluts" "party girls" and "asshole" shrew strippers! Let the witch hunt commence!
michele11
05-06-2015, 05:47 PM
As OP described it, this man a) specifically stated he wanted to buy more dances or do a VIP, b) had the cash ready in his wallet, and c) it was only $400 -- if he makes $40k/year that's 1% of his income! I don't think the situation warrants a rape comparison at all, nor do I think that any dancer who would have taken him to the VIP deserves to be called greedy or immoral.
I would agree with you if he had had less control of the situation. For example, if he had been so drunk that he passed out and a dancer decided to take his card to the ATM and withdraw until she got an insufficient funds message. But that's not what happened.
Yes, alcohol can impair your judgement. But does a 100% sober man always make the best financial choice in a strip club? No. Of course not. You know what they say about men only having enough blood to think with one head. Seriously, what is hustling but not taking no for an answer? This scenario, with the customer showing an active desire to spend his money, likely has less coercion than a dancer who keeps pressuring a sober customer to just buy a few more dances.
It's literally our job to entertain customers and be paid as much as possible for it. At no point in time did he attempt to curtail his spending, and $400 is highly unlikely to bankrupted him. So where is the harm done or the advantage taken?
Exactly. And who is in the monirity in this thread. She claims she's not. And who cares the streo types of entertiners. Worry more about the girl next to you giving a handjob/ blowjob than dancing for a drunk giy who wants to spend his money. They are who are giving the industry a bad name. I can;t tell you how many girls I saw in the 20 dance room rubbing dick wth thier hands this year. like i said in another thread girl don't give a shit about that. When i started at a bikini bar we chased the exras girls out. You all botching about girls shouldn't take a drunk guy to vi should be more worried about what;s really ruining the industry! I'm done with this thread it's going around in circles about the same thing with the same people who want to argue when the O.P. asked what would you do and be honest!
MelissaRenee
05-06-2015, 05:57 PM
I'm going to be completely honest here...
Last year, I worked in a club where dances were $30. Money was not great there because the dances were expensive and VIP was stupid expensive so they were harder to sell.
I sat with a very drunk guy who was rude, asked me a lot of uncomfortable questions, and generally rubbed me the wrong way. But he wanted a dance, so I took him to go get a dance.
Anyway, he gives me a $50 thinking it's a $20 and then another $20 as a "tip" thinking he had given me $40 and was tipping me $10. Nice, but even still...And THEN he dropped another $50 on the floor. So I made $120. I gave him an extra dance because I DID feel a bit bad in case he had an alcohol problem or something.
Here's how I look at it. Maybe I'm man hating a bit. But it's an asshole tax. You come to a strip club wearing a business suit, with your bottle of Grey Goose at your table. You are rude and generally difficult to deal with because you're drunk. It's my job to get as much money as I can doing this job because I don't get paid hourly and pay a good chunk of change to work here myself. I could sleep that night (well, day...but metaphorically speaking.) Incidents happen like this a lot. A friend of mine was recently telling me a similar story where a guy was counting out $50s like $20s to pay her for a champagne room!
Normal people get drunk in bars and lose their wallets or their money all the time. It happens. I don't think of it as anyone robbing them. Of course everybody feels differently. If someone is rude to me though, I'm not inclined to be honest. And let's face it, a lot of these drunk guys are pretty rude...
NOW, I did feel horrible one time. It's the end of the night, my friend and I are talking to these two guys who don't look like they have money at all. They were cool and we were just having a chat. Anyway, they want an hour all of a sudden. We're both surprised considering we were just drinking with them as not much else was going on and were more just having a good time until some guys with money came in. So we go upstairs, my guy pays for an hour for him and his friend with us PLUS a bottle of champagne. I'm pretty surprised as they weren't sitting in the VIP section and weren't overly drunk. My guy is cuddling me and in love with me. I ask him where he's from. He tells me he's from out of town. What is he doing here? He's here for his sister's funeral. And is now blowing the inheritance on strippers because he feels lonely.
His friend, in a very dramatic moment when the bill comes back and my guy has to sign for it, goes "YOU NEED TO SORT YOUR EMOTIONS OUT, BRO!"
I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I spent the whole hour telling this guy who was in love with me how much I hoped he got the help he needed, hope he found a nice girl but that couldn't be me because this is my job, etc...it was a weird night and I did feel weird after that. But hey, hopefully it was somewhat therapeutic for him? And to my credit I didn't know where the money was from...
DesuvsDeath
05-06-2015, 05:58 PM
It would be one thing if dude was half passed out and you were trying to drag him to the back while he CLEARLY doesn't know what's happening... and dancing for someone who is a bit sloppy but insisting they want more dances and/or a VIP who brought in the cash to pay for said VIP.
He knows what he's there for. He brought the money in to pay for it... he's verbally communicating what he wants... so what's the problem?
Naida
05-06-2015, 06:42 PM
Ok, Naida... you say that you can't pass judgement but then do EXACTLY that. And then admit that you've done it yourself. There's a pot that's dying to meet you.
If you want to kid yourself that you're better than than the rest of us, have fun with that.
In my post, I clearly stated that I did not dance for a customer whom gave me the impression that he did not understand what he was doing - which is exactly what I'm advocating. If your gut instinct is that a person is not just liberal with his wallet, but lacks the ability to make reasonable choices, and you consciously choose to take advantage of that, that is wrong in my opinion. I admitted that it's possible I may have danced for guys in that position, but only because they didn't strike me as being so.
If that's hypocrisy, I'll proudly call myself Kettle.
As OP described it, this man a) specifically stated he wanted to buy more dances or do a VIP, b) had the cash ready in his wallet, and c) it was only $400 -- if he makes $40k/year that's 1% of his income! I don't think the situation warrants a rape comparison at all, nor do I think that any dancer who would have taken him to the VIP deserves to be called greedy or immoral.
I would agree with you if he had had less control of the situation. For example, if he had been so drunk that he passed out and a dancer decided to take his card to the ATM and withdraw until she got an insufficient funds message. But that's not what happened.
Yes, alcohol can impair your judgement. But does a 100% sober man always make the best financial choice in a strip club? No. Of course not. You know what they say about men only having enough blood to think with one head. Seriously, what is hustling but not taking no for an answer? This scenario, with the customer showing an active desire to spend his money, likely has less coercion than a dancer who keeps pressuring a sober customer to just buy a few more dances.
It's literally our job to entertain customers and be paid as much as possible for it. At no point in time did he attempt to curtail his spending, and $400 is highly unlikely to bankrupted him. So where is the harm done or the advantage taken?
The only reason I even made the rape comparison is because another poster was using typical date rape blame shifting rhetoric against those of us who expressed feeling there was some moral objection to taking advantage of customer.
I cannot and, if I did it was purely by accident, will not say that what the OP did with the customer was right or wrong. None of us were there. None of us were in her heels and mind in that moment. I commended her actions for trusting her gut and doing what her/our (since we seem to be of similar personal thought) moral compass dictated was right.
I have no issue with a dancer selling dances or time to drunk customers. My only issue is when someone thinks a customer is too inebriated to make an informed decision and purposely takes advantage of that.
Wow, seems like some people here are really convinced of their moral superiority. So let's start burning these "sluts" "party girls" and "asshole" shrew strippers! Let the witch hunt commence!
Those words are taken entirely out of their context, and half of them aren't even my own thoughts. I said I was taught as a child that strippers are immoral in the same way "sluts" and "party girls" are. I obviously do not share any part of that sentiment, as I have been a slut, a party girl, and a stripper and see absolutely no issue with anyone being any combination of the three. As long as you aren't hurting anyone else, live your life the way you want to.
Exactly. And who is in the monirity in this thread. She claims she's not. And who cares the streo types of entertiners. Worry more about the girl next to you giving a handjob/ blowjob than dancing for a drunk giy who wants to spend his money. They are who are giving the industry a bad name. I can;t tell you how many girls I saw in the 20 dance room rubbing dick wth thier hands this year. like i said in another thread girl don't give a shit about that. When i started at a bikini bar we chased the exras girls out. You all botching about girls shouldn't take a drunk guy to vi should be more worried about what;s really ruining the industry! I'm done with this thread it's going around in circles about the same thing with the same people who want to argue when the O.P. asked what would you do and be honest!
I actually specifically stated that I am in the minority.
You cannot honestly pretend that any harmful opinion regarding dancers doesn't hurt all of us. Girls doing extras obviously hurt us, because it makes customers think we should all be doing extras. Similarly, a dancer who purposely does harm to a customer (whether it be monetarily, physically, etc) will also leave that negative impression upon customers. We can't prevent some dickhead who feels like talking crap from doing so, and those customers will always exist, but why would we make a double whammy of it by giving customers something to bitch about?
kirakonstantin
05-06-2015, 06:53 PM
How do you know that a "heavily intoxicated" customer that you did dance for was competent to make financial decisions? Because he didn't come back to complain? If you, by your own admission, are willing to dance for heavily intoxicated customers, you have no right to pass judgement on others, for what you freely admit to doing yourself.
I was the one who you feel is using "typical date rape blame shifting rhetoric." There's a shitton of difference between a woman who's passed out drunk being raped and a wasted customer getting the dances he asked and paid for. If you can't see the difference...
Naida
05-06-2015, 07:01 PM
How do you know that a "heavily intoxicated" customer that you did dance for was competent to make financial decisions? Because he didn't come back to complain? If you, by your own admission, are willing to dance for heavily intoxicated customers, you have no right to pass judgement on others, for what you freely admit to doing yourself.
I was the one who you feel is using "typical date rape blame shifting rhetoric." There's a shitton of difference between a woman who's passed out drunk being raped and a wasted customer getting the dances he asked and paid for. If you can't see the difference...
I've repeated multiple times that all we can do is trust our gut instinct in these situations. I trust mine, and I advocate that others do the same. There's no way that I can know for sure, and I've admitted that, but I can go home feeling okay with myself and my morals if I believe the customers I danced for were competent and turned away those that my my gut told me were not.
I've also clearly stated that rape is a much more fucked up way of taking advantage of people, but the psychology involved is the same. The perpetrator believes they have an opportunity to take advantage of a victim and makes the conscious choice to do so.
I woulda taken those twenties and if he said anything I woulda played dumb, and nope I don't feel even a little bit bad about that. And I woulda taken him to vip, if he got outta hand I woulda left the vip as long as the club will still pay u. Fuck um
zoezoebelle
05-06-2015, 07:17 PM
I definitely would have taken him to the VIP and accepted his money. There's a reason that men come in with cash instead of credit cards; it's an easy way for them to prevent themselves from overspending. If he came in with $400 in 20s, that means he was intending to A) get drunk, and then B) spend $400. I don't see the ethical objection to be honest.
Aniela
05-06-2015, 07:18 PM
How do you know that a "heavily intoxicated" customer that you did dance for was competent to make financial decisions? Because he didn't come back to complain? If you, by your own admission, are willing to dance for heavily intoxicated customers, you have no right to pass judgement on others, for what you freely admit to doing yourself.
I was the one who you feel is using "typical date rape blame shifting rhetoric." There's a shitton of difference between a woman who's passed out drunk being raped and a wasted customer getting the dances he asked and paid for. If you can't see the difference...
Agree there is a huge difference between rape & catering to a wasted customer.
There is also a huge difference between getting a few $20(or however much they were) individual dances, & taking a guy for a several-$100/hr room. We use the inverse of that difference to our advantage all the time in trying to sell that several-$100/hr room. There have been several threads here in recent months abt ROB behaviour by customers & dancers alike. Unfortunately, it's 'a thing' on both sides of the business. A$$hole tax is one thing, & I'm in full favour of it. But a guy that's falling-down drunk & can't even see for himself whether he's holding out a single note or a $20, to me, at best that gets into a grey area.
Then there are the factors I raised in my first post in this thread. Forget for a moment any argument abt the customer's competence, or lack thereof -- forget what could go wrong for him had he gotten fleeced by the OP. Consider what could have gone wrong for her -- a customer who wasn't quite as drunk & complacent as he led her to believe, lulling her into a false sense of security; him realising at the end a) how piss-drunk he really was & b) Bitch took advantage of me being drunk! :weeping: I shouldn't have to pay! :wife: ; customer being drunk to the point of alcohol poisoning.
Where I am having a little trouble here is seeing why it matters whether a person is passed-out or not. Raped is raped regardless of whether you're conscious at the time. Why is it not the same for getting stolen from?
kaninchen
05-06-2015, 07:24 PM
I cannot and, if I did it was purely by accident, will not say that what the OP did with the customer was right or wrong. None of us were there. None of us were in her heels and mind in that moment. I commended her actions for trusting her gut and doing what her/our (since we seem to be of similar personal thought) moral compass dictated was right.
I have no issue with a dancer selling dances or time to drunk customers. My only issue is when someone thinks a customer is too inebriated to make an informed decision and purposely takes advantage of that.
Okay. I agree with you on all of this. I'd also like to clarify that I do think OP made the best choice for herself, which is great. We all know our own comfort levels the best and I'd never fault someone for following their own moral compass.
It seems the contentious issue underlying all of this is whether or not the customer was capable of making an informed decision. While it seems to me that he was, obviously none of us will never know for sure, since he's not here to tell us!
hyori
05-06-2015, 07:28 PM
To the OP: I love how you handled the situation. You treated him with respect and integrity and these days kindness like that is so very rare. You treated him like a human being and although he did try to grope and lick you you had still had compassion. There must have been an intuitive reason why you didn't react with anger. I'm sure in any other situation with a sober guy you would have reacted defensively with good judgement.
Don't let the opinions, cynicism and negativity of those who thought differently take away your ethical integrity. You should feel proud of what you did and I am certain you will receive back 10-fold.
kaninchen
05-06-2015, 07:28 PM
Where I am having a little trouble here is seeing why it matters whether a person is passed-out or not. Raped is raped regardless of whether you're conscious at the time. Why is it not the same for getting stolen from?
Well, these two examples of rape and theft are not precisely parallel. If the customer had been unconscious, it's obvious that anyone taking money from him is doing so without his consent. However, if he is inebriated, but still conscious and enthusiastically consenting to spending money ... Well, where is the theft in the second situation?
Just saying, btw, from a logical standpoint I really don't like equating rape and theft. Bodies are not a replaceable possession.
kaninchen
05-06-2015, 07:44 PM
^ Haha, it did, didn't it?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5fbe6Pcbg1qcb58yo1_500.gif
Naida
05-06-2015, 07:48 PM
Okay. I agree with you on all of this. I'd also like to clarify that I do think OP made the best choice for herself, which is great. We all know our own comfort levels the best and I'd never fault someone for following their own moral compass.
It seems the contentious issue underlying all of this is whether or not the customer was capable of making an informed decision. While it seems to me that he was, obviously none of us will never know for sure, since he's not here to tell us!
Thank you for understanding the point I was trying to make! It really wasn't at all about any one particular situation, only that I take issue with a predator mentality. When I equated rape and theft, it was really only meant to discuss the emotional and psychological issues at play when a predator takes advantage of a victim.
This escalated quickly.
It really did, and I'm so sorry to anyone I offended with my part in it.
iamthefox
05-06-2015, 08:12 PM
What I don't understand is how this "I come back in and he asks about a champagne dance upstairs. I told him he was too intoxicated, it wasn't a good idea and he wasn't going to get his $200 worth because I don't do extras"
Just because you don't do extras doesn't mean he wouldn't get his moneys worth. Despite his drunken state, you could have given him an awesome dance and conversation. If you were able to tolerate giving lap dances to him, I don't understand why you weren't able to take him to the champagne room. I would have taken him to the champagne room/vip or whatever upwell your club has. But I wouldn't have stolen from him because I believe in karma.
I agree with this. As long as they aren't a danger, I'm fine taking whatever they want to give me. I also wouldn't have stolen from him... not so much due to belief, but my own inner balance (but I'm pretty sure we mean the exact same thing).
TiffTiff
05-07-2015, 12:54 AM
What I don't understand is how this "I come back in and he asks about a champagne dance upstairs. I told him he was too intoxicated, it wasn't a good idea and he wasn't going to get his $200 worth because I don't do extras"
Just because you don't do extras doesn't mean he wouldn't get his moneys worth. Despite his drunken state, you could have given him an awesome dance and conversation. If you were able to tolerate giving lap dances to him, I don't understand why you weren't able to take him to the champagne room. I would have taken him to the champagne room/vip or whatever upwell your club has. But I wouldn't have stolen from him because I believe in karma.
He asked if he could "stick it in a little", or 'pull it out of his pants" in between his mumblings. There is no security when you go upstairs in the champagne room. I didn't feel comfortable. He was too intoxicated to enjoy any dance I might have given him up there, and he was hiccuping like a vomiting was in his future. He was not capable of making informed decisions. He was stumbling, waking into walls, dropping his walet and money every 30 seconds. AT 1am when I went out to my car he was sleeping in his truck.
kirakonstantin
05-07-2015, 12:57 AM
He asked if he could "stick it in a little", or 'pull it out of his pants" in between his mumblings. There is no security when you go upstairs in the champagne room. I didn't feel comfortable. He was too intoxicated to enjoy any dance I might have given him up there, and he was hiccuping like a vomiting was in his future.
Information that REALLY belonged in the OP...
KikiGem
05-07-2015, 07:16 AM
Agreed! That reeeally should have come up sooner OP.
zoezoebelle
05-07-2015, 08:29 AM
He asked if he could "stick it in a little", or 'pull it out of his pants" in between his mumblings. There is no security when you go upstairs in the champagne room. I didn't feel comfortable. He was too intoxicated to enjoy any dance I might have given him up there, and he was hiccuping like a vomiting was in his future. He was not capable of making informed decisions. He was stumbling, waking into walls, dropping his walet and money every 30 seconds. AT 1am when I went out to my car he was sleeping in his truck.
Okay yeah, this is a completely different situation from the one described. Would not touch that with a ten foot pole!
culitos
05-07-2015, 09:34 AM
He asked if he could "stick it in a little", or 'pull it out of his pants" in between his mumblings. There is no security when you go upstairs in the champagne room. I didn't feel comfortable. He was too intoxicated to enjoy any dance I might have given him up there, and he was hiccuping like a vomiting was in his future. He was not capable of making informed decisions. He was stumbling, waking into walls, dropping his walet and money every 30 seconds. AT 1am when I went out to my car he was sleeping in his truck.
Girl, if I were you I would have taken all those 20s and ran. Fck him
kirakonstantin
05-07-2015, 11:27 AM
AT 1am when I went out to my car he was sleeping in his truck.
So, I guess the DJ didn't really call him a cab? My BS meter is going off...
michele11
05-07-2015, 12:03 PM
Right and he was walking in to walls and hicupping like he was going to puke. I wouldn't of went near him either. Much less did 20 dances for him. And now that all the info has come out I'm really surprised a thread was even started....
kirakonstantin
05-07-2015, 12:07 PM
^Oh goodness no. A customer that's been cut off and likely to puke is best left alone. Not that I couldn't deal with it but rather... I like my shoes, they were expensive and I don't want to break in a new pair.
newb2
05-07-2015, 12:08 PM
I would have brought him straight to VIP and made him pay. Then given him water
michele11
05-07-2015, 12:09 PM
^ I said that earlier. I've done that but not with someone who was already going to puke at any second and asking if he could stick it in for a second.
michele11
05-07-2015, 12:12 PM
^Oh goodness no. A customer that's been cut off and likely to puke is best left alone. Not that I couldn't deal with it but rather... I like my shoes, they were expensive and I don't want to break in a new pair.
If he could barely walk most the clubs I work in have stairs he wouldn't of even made it to vip. This thread is a joke now. Since it seems it was just to rile us up. Since a ton of info was ommited and come on the op is 38 she should now. A wholethread. Smh.
michele11
05-07-2015, 12:13 PM
Know.
Miss_Red
05-07-2015, 12:51 PM
The question has now changed from what constitutes taking advantage of a drunk person to what constitutes safety when deciding who to dance for. The first question is interesting. The second is pretty simple, given the scenario.
newb2
05-07-2015, 01:12 PM
^ I said that earlier. I've done that but not with someone who was already going to puke at any second and asking if he could stick it in for a second.
I still would have taken him to VIP tbh.
I've had guys take it out, ask me crudely for sex, thrown up on themselves and I've just carried on.
Optimist
05-07-2015, 01:13 PM
All night we're dancing for guys who are married. Should we check their marital status at the door? How about their tax returns to know if they can afford it? In Manhattan many a drug dealer will buy rooms. Should we get LE to run everyone's info to screen? He was clear minded enough to go over/disrespect your boundaries. You are not innocent of 'wrongdoing' if you took money $25 at a time vs $200.
kirakonstantin
05-07-2015, 06:44 PM
If he could barely walk most the clubs I work in have stairs he wouldn't of even made it to vip. This thread is a joke now. Since it seems it was just to rile us up. Since a ton of info was ommited and come on the op is 38 she should now. A wholethread. Smh.
I have a gut feeling that the additional info didn't actually happen, given that calling a cab... and then finding the customer sleeping in his vehicle don't quite work together. Nor does a club letting a drunk customer sleep it off in the parking lot sound likely. I also find it kind of interesting that the additional details were added to.
I'd be willing to bet that the first post was pretty factual and it didn't yield enough huggy luv luvs.
kaninchen
05-07-2015, 07:02 PM
I still would have taken him to VIP tbh.
I've had guys take it out, ask me crudely for sex, thrown up on themselves and I've just carried on.
That's impressive, actually! I'm imagining you doing a glamorous, unbothered hair flip in the midst of some crazy-ass Caligula shit in the club. Like a puking pantsless customer just caught on fire and you're like:
http://d236bkdxj385sg.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/06-Cynthia-Hair-Flip.gif
michele11
05-07-2015, 07:52 PM
^ Lmao. I love me some cynthia.