View Full Version : Is it me or has stripping completely switched to light to heavy extras?
Vyanka
05-17-2015, 11:05 PM
Holy crap. I have never seen this at any club I have worked at....smh.
Girls have been vocal about it in clubs I've worked at. Their reasoning is bc they don't want to do vip with someone half raping them(bc the other previous girls let them do xyz), but they need the money(part of it is greed too), so some dudes will walk out blacked out.
Not justifying that type of violation, if anything. It's just another problem on top of the other.
I try to chose very wisely who I do vip with and do just fine. Not every guy expects what others are willing to give. Some have been nightmares and i cut it off short, and some have been very pleasant to be around with and enjoy the fantasy with a girl they fancy.
Melonie
05-18-2015, 02:24 AM
Girls have been vocal about it in clubs I've worked at. Their reasoning is bc they don't want to do vip with someone half raping them(bc the other previous girls let them do xyz), but they need the money(part of it is greed too), so some dudes will walk out blacked out.
I don't even want to think about the possible legal ramifications for these dancers and for the strip club. Giving MDMA to an unknowing customer, with intent to 'rob' that customer while under the influence of said Class B drug, has got to be a felony. Legally speaking, this is in a 'whole 'nuther league' than acts of prostitution.
And in terms of potential civil liabilities for the club and dancer, can you imagine the fallout if a high earning strip club customer should lose his job - or worse lose his professional credentials, thus effectively terminating his 'professional' career - should a random drug test turn up the presence of MDMA he was unknowingly given by a strip club dancer ?
IMHO this is beyond stupid !!! It runs the risk of alienating upscale club customers at the very least, and runs the risk of ruining the upscale club's reputation to a much greater degree than 'discrete' HJ / BJ ever could. This obviously also runs the risk of the involved dancer doing some 'time', as well as the club and/or dancer potentially being hit with a million dollar civil damages lawsuit !!!
TiffTiff
05-19-2015, 05:30 PM
Herein lies the real 'kicker'. Yes the club will glom onto 30% of the money the customer spent for the private dances / VIP room. But the club won't glom onto ANY of the additional money the customer pays to the dancer for the HJ / BJ, because 'officially' speaking that 'sale' never took place and tha
And this example obviously assumes that both the contact lap dance only dancer and the HJ / BJ dancer are equally able to 'sell' five customers, which may increasingly NOT be the case as customer expectations increase. If customer decisions result in the contact lap dance only dancer selling just three private dance / VIP room trips, while the HJ / BJ dancer is able to sell seven private dance / VIP room trips ( because two additional club customers decided that BJ / HJ was a requirement ), the 'clean' dancer winds up leaving the club with $200 while the 'dirty' dancer leaves the club with $1050.
And I'm the girl leaving with $200 a night and I don't give a flying rats ass. Because, like I've said numerous times, I'm a dancer, not a prostitute. I'm also married and consider HJ/BJ cheating. I won't do it. No amount of money would or could ever make me do it. I started dancing in 1992. I lived through the best times as a legit dancer. Now I'm living through the worst times. But, at the end of the night, I count my blessings that I am able to bring home 2-3 hundred a night CASH without working hard. I don't dig ditches or work in a 110 degree factory, or clean toilets. I have a very easy job and a pretty enjoyable job where I sit down a lot and have a few cocktails when I want. I'm in the air condition, I get to play dress up and I meet some pretty interesting people. The job is what it is now. I'm not happy with it, but I'm ok with it.
lokikola
05-19-2015, 08:24 PM
I'm getting sick of these threads. Feels like a new one pops up every day now.
Might be so but I am actually glad we have a space at least in this little corner of the internet where girls can vent and discuss something that we can't at our workplace or with most friends/family.
charlie61
05-19-2015, 08:50 PM
Might be so but I am actually glad we have a space at least in this little corner of the internet where girls can vent and discuss something that we can't at our workplace or with most friends/family.
I hear that. And I appreciate what you said - encouraging me to check myself. :)
I think when I was complaining about this type of thread, I had my own advice in mind: https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?197435-Pulling-out-of-the-Death-Spiral&p=2760457&viewfull=1#post2760457
Sometimes I feel like all of the negativity can bog us down - there's no more money out there, why can't today be more like the '80s, every customer wants extras, you're fucked if you go to college and fucked if you're in the sex industry and no matter what you do you'll always be fucked, etc. But me feeling bogged down is my problem, and I'll be the adult and unsubscribe from threads like these.
Melonie
05-20-2015, 03:24 AM
Sometimes I feel like all of the negativity can bog us down - there's no more money out there, why can't today be more like the '80s, every customer wants extras, you're fucked if you go to college and fucked if you're in the sex industry and no matter what you do you'll always be fucked, etc.
I hear you regarding the negativity, but on the flip side not acknowledging the negative industry trends, and not acknowledging negative economic trends in general, won't make them go away either.
I'm the girl leaving with $200 a night and I don't give a flying rats ass. Because, like I've said numerous times, I'm a dancer, not a prostitute. I'm also married and consider HJ/BJ cheating. I won't do it. No amount of money would or could ever make me do it. I started dancing in 1992. I lived through the best times as a legit dancer. Now I'm living through the worst times. But, at the end of the night, I count my blessings that I am able to bring home 2-3 hundred a night CASH without working hard. I don't dig ditches or work in a 110 degree factory, or clean toilets.
This is actually a very 'positive' statement ... which I respect greatly !!! And it raises a very important point which is usually overlooked.
Even though today's 'clean' dancing environment may have decreased the $1000 a night of the 90's or $500 a night of a few years ago to $200 a night today, in relative terms it isn't just the strip club economy which has trended negative over those same years. For example, $40 an hour factory jobs in Detroit have mutated into $18 factory jobs in South Carolina during the same time period. So in RELATIVE terms, exotic dancing without 'extras' still provides a level of income which is far higher than can be earned from any 'straight' job the dancer is likely to be qualified for, still provides working conditions that are far better than a rigid schedule 'job' with an overbearing boss, etc.
But, at a $200 a night earnings level ( which becomes $140 if the club issues 1099's ), the question then arises as to whether or not continuing to work as a 'clean' dancer is still 'worth it'. As other dancers in the club offer 'extras', the 'clean' dancer faces an increasing risk of being busted. As other dancers in the club offer 'extras' and as club customers come to expect 'extras', the 'clean' dancer increasingly disappoints those customers ... leading to increased customer 'drama', reduced dancer earnings, and potentially leading to more stress as the clubowner comes to see the 'clean' dancer as a liability. And, as always, continuing to work as a dancer still creates a resume 'gap', does not build 'seniority', does not accrue employer funded employee and retirement benefits, etc.
This obviously comes down to an individual decision. But just as obviously, it's much easier to put up with clubowner bullshit, 'aggressive' customers, and the classic negatives of an adult industry work history, if you're receiving $500 instead of $200.
SweetJulia
05-20-2015, 12:15 PM
Yes, absolutely. I chose my club based on how attractive I found the customers and the availability of extras because that is how I like to work. I understand the anger and frustration when a few extras girls tip the scales in otherwise low contact clubs, but the clubs I like working in are known for their extras girls, so the playing field is fair. We are all selling the same service, so no one gets mad.
Our clientele is upscale, and yes, most of them are very attractive, well dressed and smell nice. We are located across the street from a prestigious health club in one of the wealthiest parts of the city. Sometimes I have to pinch myself because I can't believe that I actually get paid to do this work.
I was having some trouble with your statement, so I thought a bit further. I'm 30, was 25 when I quit dancing unofficially, and am attracted to guys my age or younger, usually with tattoos, more alternative etc..
You're 45, I don't think you have tattoos and are cleaner cut. I can only assume you're attracted to guys closer to your age and look. Which may be why it's easier for you to perform extras. Most guys who asked me-who weren't terribly obese, sound like your type. But, in general, older, clean cut guys are a major turn off to me.
If I was asked for extras nightly by 25 year old rock stars would I have done them? Honestly, while it would have been easier, no. Sure, I'd be up for fucking them if they met my standards. But I don't fuck people I don't respect. First of all, I wouldn't respect them because they were trying to get something I could get in trouble for just to bust a nut. Secondly, if they're hot and offering money for sex, they must not be too great at it. I am and I want to be satisfied as much as I satisfy. If a young, hot guy came in and was respectful, he would have a chance of fucking me outside the club. But to get that far, they can't ask for extras, put me at legal and medical risk, and make me think they sucked in bed. I've had a few hookups and two relationships that stemmed from clubs. Men reading this, don't get your hopes up, this is about five guys out of like a million customers. I'm sure some will argue to just dance for them and take their money, but 1-I wasn't in financial ruin, ever and 2-if I want to fuck someone, I will. I'm just going to make sure I don't hate who they are as a person, not endager the freedom of my employer/coworkers by fucking in the club, and would want to make sure they're just as hot in normal lighting.
gingersnap
05-20-2015, 08:26 PM
I want to know what happens when they cum? They just cum on the floor or what?
Who said anything about sucking dick? I draw the line at hand jobs. Oral sex messes up my makeup. ;-)
ETA: I don't begrudge the other girls for providing full service. If they are happy and consenting and getting paid, it's no business of mine what they do. They are adults, they can make their own decisions about their own (adult) bodies. As a life long non-conformist, I don't believe in following laws that try to regulate natural human behavior. I'm skilled at what I do, and IDGAF if someone else is grossed out by my work. As a stripper or cam girl, the whole world already thinks you are a whore. I've just learned how to capitalize on that, and have a great time while I'm at it.
TiffTiff
06-05-2015, 09:25 PM
I hear you regarding the negativity, but on the flip side not acknowledging the negative industry trends, and not acknowledging negative economic trends in general, won't make them go away either.
This is actually a very 'positive' statement ... which I respect greatly !!! And it raises a very important point which is usually overlooked.
Even though today's 'clean' dancing environment may have decreased the $1000 a night of the 90's or $500 a night of a few years ago to $200 a night today, in relative terms it isn't just the strip club economy which has trended negative over those same years. For example, $40 an hour factory jobs in Detroit have mutated into $18 factory jobs in South Carolina during the same time period. So in RELATIVE terms, exotic dancing without 'extras' still provides a level of income which is far higher than can be earned from any 'straight' job the dancer is likely to be qualified for, still provides working conditions that are far better than a rigid schedule 'job' with an overbearing boss, etc.
But, at a $200 a night earnings level ( which becomes $140 if the club issues 1099's ), the question then arises as to whether or not continuing to work as a 'clean' dancer is still 'worth it'. As other dancers in the club offer 'extras', the 'clean' dancer faces an increasing risk of being busted. As other dancers in the club offer 'extras' and as club customers come to expect 'extras', the 'clean' dancer increasingly disappoints those customers ... leading to increased customer 'drama', reduced dancer earnings, and potentially leading to more stress as the clubowner comes to see the 'clean' dancer as a liability. And, as always, continuing to work as a dancer still creates a resume 'gap', does not build 'seniority', does not accrue employer funded employee and retirement benefits, etc.
This obviously comes down to an individual decision. But just as obviously, it's much easier to put up with clubowner bullshit, 'aggressive' customers, and the classic negatives of an adult industry work history, if you're receiving $500 instead of $200.
I still choose dancing, because even though I held a "part time, flexible" vanilla job for 15 years, they still weren't as flexible as dancing. AT my club I can come in Sunday night 6-2, then maybe wed 3-9, then saturday if my mortgage is due I'll stay open to close. Then I won't work for a week. It's crazy flexible. With 4 kids (one in college, one in diapers) I can't beat that. Lately I ave been making $300 or so a night. I did have a bad 5 hour shift last week where I left with $180. It was monday. I had nothing to do so I went to work and made extra money.
princesschantelle
06-13-2015, 12:01 PM
I just wanted to say that there is one club out there that is still respectable. It's the club that I work at in Chicago. I have never felt pressured to perform sex acts because of competition with other girls. From what I have heard from the older workers, girls who do extras eventually get caught and fired. The dancers are encouraged to tell body guards any time a man touches them in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. Those men get thrown out, and the girls get to keep the money. It's a no-contact club (us girls do get the choice to let them touch us, especially in private rooms, but never to the point of a sex act). All the dancers brag that the staff "treats us like princesses." I feel totally comfortable and empowered working there, which is why I still work there. My manager did tell me once that he believes his club to be one of the last of a dying breed.
AND we make lots of money. $500+, $1000 on some nights. This place just knows how to run its shit.
Maybe if we all banded together to demand club owners to change their policies, then we could get some respect. There should be more activism in this area. It's the fucking stigma attached to our line of work that we feel afraid to demand change, goddammit.
kirakonstantin
06-13-2015, 05:48 PM
^^^This is how were keeping my club clean. We get dirty girls on occasion and we force them out. I'll give the greener girls a talking to and chance to clean up, but the veterans... no. Club management helps. They will fine, suspend and fire for extras, but the real pressure comes from other dancers. But, it's hard to come into work day after day when other dancers fuck with them any way possible.
StellaAurora
06-14-2015, 05:25 AM
Strip clubs are now fairly mainstream (though the women working in them are in no better social standing, sadly). The market is saturated. College is expensive. Taking care of kids is expensive. Hell, just LIVING is expensive. "Stripper population" is at an all time high! The middle/upper middle class is shrinking. Girls are competing to provide their customers with more "services" and "value" the same way businesses in saturated, value-based markets do.
Also, the amount of slut shaming in this thread is atrocious. We're strippers. Prostitutes are our fellow sex workers, our sisters. Yes, providing "extras" in the club screws up the entire strip club supply/demand dynamic and in a perfect world it wouldn't happen and we'd all be united and pledge to give only air dances, but extras are the reality of most clubs. These girls are just working in the boundaries of what has been proven time and again to be acceptable and profitable in their club. You're the one raging against reality if you call these girls names and shame them. "Civilians" think all of us are whores. Don't create division amongst us. And this is coming from someone who was forced to quit the business because I could no longer "compete" in the market because I was not willing to provide "light" (relative term) extras that became the absolute norm at my club like touching outside men's pants, nipple sucking, grinding them to orgasm, etc.
Also, after having worked across the country in the 13 years I danced, I've come to the conclusion that if you work/worked somewhere that extras were NOT the norm, you were working at the EXCEPTION, not the rule. The profitable air dance/low contact club was an an anomaly, probably never to be repeated in our lifetimes. Yes, I'm sure there's so-and-so-club and whatever-town that is still financially thriving providing only air dances, but that's anecdotal.
StellaAurora
06-14-2015, 06:01 AM
Then there are the girls(at least in my area) who slip molly in customer's drinks bc they're not trying to get down with extras. Back to back fucking up this business even more.
The most financially successful "pod" of girls at my last club would apparently (with their favorite waitress's help) slip a mix of Molly and a little Ambien in their VIP customer's champagne. They guys would be completely out of it and tip them thousands on their cards. They paid off anyone who might object to the practice and are apparently still getting away with it.
princesschantelle
06-14-2015, 06:41 AM
I definitely understand that clubs like mine are an exception (I'm so lucky that this is the first place that I'm working). I just hope that one day we could make it more of a norm.
Aniela
06-14-2015, 07:06 AM
Also, the amount of slut shaming in this thread is atrocious. We're strippers. Prostitutes are our fellow sex workers, our sisters. Yes, providing "extras" in the club screws up the entire strip club supply/demand dynamic and in a perfect world it wouldn't happen and we'd all be united and pledge to give only air dances, but extras are the reality of most clubs. These girls are just working in the boundaries of what has been proven time and again to be acceptable and profitable in their club. You're the one raging against reality if you call these girls names and shame them. "Civilians" think all of us are whores. Don't create division amongst us. And this is coming from someone who was forced to quit the business because I could no longer "compete" in the market because I was not willing to provide "light" (relative term) extras that became the absolute norm at my club like touching outside men's pants, nipple sucking, grinding them to orgasm, etc.
Seriously? You're breaking out the violins & onions on behalf of the same slags who, in your own words, forced you out of the business? Why do you think they have more right to make a dirty/risky living than you do to make a clean, safe living in the same workplace?
I'm lost as to how the girls who literally whore themselves out in an arena that IS NOT supposed to provide actual sexual favours, are the victims, but clean dancers who call them on this shit are bad, mean, division-creating bullies. Your 'civilians think we are all whores so it's wrong to actually say/do anything abt the problem' argument doesn't really hold water bc 'civilians' aren't the ones whose livelihood, freedom & health are put at risk by the POS extras brigades (that includes participating club staff & customers, not just girls). Most civilians don't know shit abt the realities of this industry, so why would you hold civilian opinions up as any kind of indicator of how sex workers should treat or relate to each other?
No one here is shaming prostitutes for being prostitutes so Idk where you're getting all this 'atrocious slut-shaming' from. The girls, customers & club staff that encourage ITC prostitution create real risks for clean dancers everywhere -- assuming you were a clean dancer who truly appreciated her freedom, I am kind of baffled that you would be so quick to call out Kumbaya on this subj. The girls who hook ITC don't do any favours to anyone but themselves(& their clients) -- those extras girls certainly didn't give two liquid shits abt YOUR ability to make a living, StellaAurora.
No one is saying don't be a prostitute -- we are all saying, don't be a prostitute ITC. Just bc smtg is the norm, doesn't make it right or just. ITC hookers & customers do need to be shamed & removed from the clubs bc their services don't belong there. They want to hook? Let em hook -- after they've all put on their big girl/big boy knickers & taken that shit sm where else.
StellaAurora
06-14-2015, 07:20 AM
I didn't call out anyone (I didn't even read Kumbaya's post, actually). It is what it is, no matter how much we complain about it. Believe me, I didn't like it then, nor do I like now. I was as mad as anyone about it. I complained, I went to management (who were in on it), I went to ownership (who were in on it), I even told the new girls "You don't need to do this to make money." The only thing it did was make my work life hard for me. Nothing will stop this market-wide change. I'm sorry if you don't want to hear that, but it's true. Clinging to the hope that things could go back to how they were when the economy was awesome and stripper's services were more "valuable" is something I relate to, believe me. It's just not happening.
You have to adapt to the market if you want to make money - it's either provide something so above and beyond what the extra girls are providing that men are willing to reward you for it (like an AMAZING stage performance, being exquisitely beautiful, or a providing really good mindfuck), cave in and start providing extras (for me that was a big "No, thanks. I'll see myself out."), find another facet of the sex work industry where what you provide is what's in-demand (camming, domme work, phone sex), or quit the business and get a non-naked job.
I've been out for a while and have a different, cooled down perspective. I was certainly lava-hot-angry while I was still in the business that extras were slowly but surely becoming the norm.
StellaAurora
06-14-2015, 07:28 AM
Also - There's a big difference between objecting to the existence of extras in the club and slut shaming the girls providing the extras. Calling them names and shaming them accomplishes nothing. Slut shaming is toxic to everyone.
Flickdreams
06-14-2015, 07:30 AM
^ Coolio. But I believe the point Aniela really wanted to emphasise is that she doesn't believe we are slut shaming in this thread or demonising prostitutes.
StellaAurora
06-14-2015, 07:32 AM
I agree that you're not demonizing OTC prostitutes - but I think even shaming the girls in the club providing extras is toxic and non-productive. I'm sure they'd love to air dance and make a decent living. Fight the real enemy, you know? It's not each other.
StellaAurora
06-14-2015, 07:38 AM
Shit, if I had it in me to hook, I would have done it in the club, wouldn't you? You're so much safer and you can command MUCH MORE money for the same services.
Don't want girls to hook in the club? Advocate for the legalization of prostitution and systemic protections for them, because as of now, it's dangerous as hell to hook OTC.
Aniela
06-14-2015, 07:54 AM
I agree that you're not demonizing OTC prostitutes - but I think even shaming the girls in the club providing extras is toxic and non-productive. I'm sure they'd love to air dance and make a decent living. Fight the real enemy, you know? It's not each other.
Toss the extras girls & extras-permitting club staff, & let their clientele follow. Easier said than done, I agree, but we certainly won't get anywhere better by throwing up our hands & saying oh well, guess my need to make a living isn't nearly as important as the needs of other chicks who are too lazy/greedy/clueless/managed to do this job properly.
Do I believe air-dancing will ever come back to where it once was? No, I don't. I didn't mind air-dancing clubs, but I did found that the 3ft rule alone didn't protect me. I still needed to have eyes in the back of my head (God bless club mirrors) & a bouncer in screaming distance, bc you're always going to have the wankers that try to pull shit they shouldn't. At same time, while this is maybe bc I have mostly worked in contact clubs, I don't mind a certain amt of touching from the customer -- not bc I like it, but bc it lets me know where that mf'er's hands are. But there's a big difference between permitting light contact (which I know is a grey area all its own) & sitting back & allowing extras touching & sexual favours simply bc the customer now expects it. Just bc the customer expects it, doesn't mean he deserves to have it.
'fighting the real enemy' isn't a single-front battle, & that's part of the problem. It isn't JUST the customers, it's the staff & the girls who build the expectations(read: DEMANDS) in those customers for extras. So yes, I am actually for demonising ITC prostitutes, bc their very actions are a big part of the reason that being a clean dancer is increasingly dangerous & less-lucrative. Giving them hugs & empathising w/ them isn't going to change the situation. If these girls are grown-up enough to make the decisions to sell sex, which is illegal regardless of how any of us might feel abt prostitution, they are grown-up enough to not be mollycoddled abt the possible consequences to their non-hooking coworkers.
Aniela
06-14-2015, 08:01 AM
Shit, if I had it in me to hook, I would have done it in the club, wouldn't you? You're so much safer and you can command MUCH MORE money for the same services.
Don't want girls to hook in the club? Advocate for the legalization of prostitution and systemic protections for them, because as of now, it's dangerous as hell to hook OTC.
No, I wouldn't do it in the club, bc I think it's unconscionable to force my coworkers into a very real legal sticky spot just so I can make an extra buck. & that is exactly what you would be doing -- once a club starts attracting LE attention, EVERY girl there is suspect, regardless of whether she's clean or dirty.
It's not strippers' fault, or their problem, that OTC prostitution is so risky. This is also one of the arguments customers make for why they look for sex ITC -- bc they don't have the balls to take on the legal risks that come w/ paying for sex. Instead, they bring that shit ITC & force it to be our problem. Likewise, the girls that hook ITC. As I said already, if you're grown-up enough to make any kind of legally-not-kosher decision, you should be grown-up enough to deal w/ the consequences. The spinelessness of these customers & girls shouldn't be made the problem of girls who are trying to make a legal living -- girls who hook ITC aren't the only ones w/ bills & families.
StellaAurora
06-14-2015, 08:05 AM
I understand and appreciate your frustration, believe me. But, in my experience, it's a losing fight if clubs stay the way they are.
What do strippers want? A safe place to provide their services and make a living.
What do prostitutes want? A safe place to provide their services and make a living.
The only long term solution for this is:
1. Joining the fight to make dancers TRUE independent contractors who pay a reasonable flat fee to work or (less desirable) tipped employees who make a base wage and keep their profits. The pressure to make house fees, DJ tip outs, losing 20-40% (or more!) of your income to the club contributes greatly to the desperation that makes girls resort to extras. We make the club owners fucking rich by just showing up and drawing crowds that buy drinks - they don't deserve our labor and our money. What happens in most clubs is blatant exploitation they get away with because society does not give a fuck about sex worker's rights. One shitty club I worked at made $3 million in DOOR FEES ALONE a year.
2. Advocating for the legalization of prostitution and protections for them. Until a decade or so ago, many cases of the murder of sex workers were classified NHI (no humans involved). It's scary as hell out there to hook, and every woman (especially fellow sex workers!) should be fighting to protect each other. Prostitutes still get murdered, raped, and assaulted everyday. Most go uninvestigated unless the cops think the perpetrator is a threat to society at large (like a serial killer). This shit has to stop. Prostitutes are not our enemy - a sex negative rape culture that sees prostitutes as worthless and "asking for it" is.
krystal.s
06-14-2015, 08:13 AM
Since the late 90's clubs and dances have come a long way. I started doing air dances 3 feet from customers to now watching the girl dancing next to me getting fingered. Dances and platform shoes have come a long way.
Melonie
06-14-2015, 02:26 PM
'fighting the real enemy' isn't a single-front battle, & that's part of the problem. It isn't JUST the customers, it's the staff & the girls who build the expectations(read: DEMANDS) in those customers for extras.
I would argue that the 'real enemy' actually goes well beyond greedy club owners and dancers who are willing to provide 'extras' ITC. Instead, one can look to club owners facing rapidly rising property taxes, insurance costs, utility bill costs, etc. which effectively requires the club turn a larger gross profit to still achieve enough net profit to allow the club to stay in business.
Instead, one can look to club customers who face stagnant paychecks but who also face rapidly rising property taxes = rent prices, rapidly rising insurance costs, utility bill costs, etc. of their own. This reduces the remaining money available for spending on 'non-essential' items like lap dances. And when a club customer's spending ability is reduced, that is going to translate into an expectation of more 'bang' in exchange for their fewer remaining bucks.
And one can also look to dancers who similarly face rising taxes, rising rents, rising insurance costs, rising utility bill costs etc. If it becomes necessary for dancers to start offering 'extras' to strip club customers as the means for those dancers to continue to pay versus not pay these 'essential' bills in today's economic environment, it's difficult to fault those dancers for doing so.
kirakonstantin
06-14-2015, 04:23 PM
There is a place for every sex worker, legal or not, and there are ways that sex workers can operate safely, or as safely as possible. What is just not ok is for a prostitute to come into a strip club, a no sex zone, start selling sex and make the environment dangerous for a different type of sex worker. That's bullshit and something that needs to be called out for what it is.
If a prostitute wants to operate safely, there are numerous precautions she can take and many of the escorts on this forum do just that. They screen clients, ask for references, operate through an agency, hire security, etc. What isn't cool is piggybacking off of the safety features of a strip club.
We all want to talk about unity, looking out for each other and that's great. The ITC prostitute will not be joining that. She doesn't give a single fuck about anyone but herself. She will teach customers that they have a right to demand sex and force it on unwilling dancers, resulting in sexual assaults that will not be taken seriously. She will show off in VIP, where your customer can see it, and make him wonder why he's not getting the same action. She will pique the interest of LE, who really like seeing their name in the paper for a big bust. She will drive the high caliber customers out, because they can't afford to get caught in a strip club. She will lower the reputation of your club. She will bring in more extras girls and drug dealers. She will force you out of a job. While she's making good money temporarily, she's fucking up the club for dancers permanently.
Fuck no. Strip clubs are not for sucking and fucking. They're for fantasy, companionship and teasing. Prostitutes... more power to them. Just not in my club. If they stay in their lane, I couldn't care less what they do. When they stray into mine, they're going to be forced out.
Starling
06-14-2015, 04:34 PM
Shit, if I had it in me to hook, I would have done it in the club, wouldn't you? You're so much safer and you can command MUCH MORE money for the same services.
Don't want girls to hook in the club? Advocate for the legalization of prostitution and systemic protections for them, because as of now, it's dangerous as hell to hook OTC.
I see what you're saying it I think it's kind of true...for the girls I worked with who hooked they had a steady stream of customers coming into the club and they did extras for a lot of money on top of room fees.
However some things to consider...I've read a thread on here a while back how customers who meet escorts are generally more polite and better mannered than strip club clientele. I find a lot of customers I've ran into seeking for extras can be pushy, mean, and just gross. So you'd have to put up with more of those guys in the club.
There's also that customer that gets his rocks off of owning a person. If he pays a very high price for a room, in his mind you're basically his and he can do whatever he wants to you, the guy could try to choke the girl or do other things in the room.
miss.a.p1600
06-15-2015, 09:09 AM
This thread and the points made here are exactly what I've been trying to express.
I I wrote in one thread how our club increased fees and how I was pissed because if these hoes weren't doing extras then they probably are now. Melonie has a good point of how economics indirectly affect some women and what they will do for money. As inflation occurs, club fees increase, and cost of living increase - what do desperate strippers do?
the other thread about strip clubs closing down. Well economic factors is one but also black market demand for sexual services in a place where it's illegal but it happens because club managers and owners think like corrupt pimps. I also think Stellaurora makes a good point about the reasons people are willing to take a risk and service the black market in the strip club. They think it's safer than escorting but it's not in my opinion. I think if brothels were legal in more places than Nevada then there would be less hooking in strip clubs as you call it.
Starling
06-15-2015, 01:15 PM
It seems like everything rises with inflation except dancer earnings. How long has a $20 dance stayed $20? 30 years? No wonder girls aren't making money.
In fact in some clubs dance prices have probably gone down. I used to work in a club that took half of all lapdance money earned and I found out from the owner it wasn't always like that.
When he first opened up business he used to pay the girls a wage and they kept all their money. Then he said eventually girls started working for free and he stopped paying a wage. Then instead of doing a house fee, he just took a cut of all the dances.
I haven't danced in a few months now, sometimes I'm not sure if I want to go back.
Naida
06-15-2015, 07:51 PM
I'm all for prostitution and advocate for it to be legalized, but keep the shit out of the clubs, please. There are plenty of threads here and resources around the web to learn how to safely escort. Hooking and stripping are two different types of sex work, and bringing literal sexual activity to the club benefits no one in the long run as it contributes to the decline of customer quality, ruins it for dancers using the facilities in (what I consider to be) the correct way, and drawing LE attention. If you're hooking in the club for safety, what are you gonna do when your activities get it shut down and put EVERYONE there out of work?
I'm not gonna beef with girls like Tourdefranzia who specifically work extras clubs. If you're working at a thinly veiled whorehouse/would-be-brothel to begin with, you do you. But when it's extras girls working at standard, want-to-be-clean clubs, it officially becomes a "she goes or I do" situation. If I and other clean dancers, or management, can't get rid of the selfish bitch, I'm moving on to greener pastures and I may just try to take a couple of other girls with me.
miss.a.p1600
06-15-2015, 08:31 PM
I'm all for prostitution and advocate for it to be legalized, but keep the shit out of the clubs, please. There are plenty of threads here and resources around the web to learn how to safely escort. Hooking and stripping are two different types of sex work, and bringing literal sexual activity to the club benefits no one in the long run as it contributes to the decline of customer quality, ruins it for dancers using the facilities in (what I consider to be) the correct way, and drawing LE attention. If you're hooking in the club for safety, what are you gonna do when your activities get it shut down and put EVERYONE there out of work?
I'm not gonna beef with girls like Tourdefranzia who specifically work extras clubs. If you're working at a thinly veiled whorehouse/would-be-brothel to begin with, you do you. But when it's extras girls working at standard, want-to-be-clean clubs, it officially becomes a "she goes or I do" situation. If I and other clean dancers, or management, can't get rid of the selfish bitch, I'm moving on to greener pastures and I may just try to take a couple of other girls with me.
Oh hooking in the club has lots of benefits (short term though) for the people that participate because the extras dancers can leverage the clubs security, the space, and customer base without having to screen or pay for any marketing. The customers don't have give up their personal info / go through an escorts screening and can "see" the woman before buying the goods. And the club gets a cut of the room. Which hopefully a portion of room fees is used for hush money.
It makes total sense but I think it's a short term business plan and too high risk.
I actually like tourdefranzia not because I agree with her actions in the club but because she seems open and forthcoming about her services and I feel that brings some authenticity to the forum especially on a somewhat controversial topic that the girls who do extras in the club would most likely lie about.
xxxGothBarbie
06-15-2015, 08:57 PM
Well here's my 2 cents for what it's worth... If ITC extras girls are gonna take over eventually then us (clean girls) are gonna turn to glamorized charlatans & rip them off without performing any sort of extras. I do that now bc almost 99% of the clientele coming into my club always asks before agreeing to a dance "well, am I allowed to touch?" I have to vaguely reply with a yes bc otherwise I'll lose out on the sale & I'm sick of going home with nothing & watching all the lazy ass extras girls take everything home. I love to mind fuck these guys, they deserve it esp with their disgusting "expectations" of us & their "entitlement".
miss.a.p1600
06-16-2015, 10:22 AM
Well here's my 2 cents for what it's worth... If ITC extras girls are gonna take over eventually then us (clean girls) are gonna turn to glamorized charlatans & rip them off without performing any sort of extras. I do that now bc almost 99% of the clientele coming into my club always asks before agreeing to a dance "well, am I allowed to touch?" I have to vaguely reply with a yes bc otherwise I'll lose out on the sale & I'm sick of going home with nothing & watching all the lazy ass extras girls take everything home. I love to mind fuck these guys, they deserve it esp with their disgusting "expectations" of us & their "entitlement".
If extras girls, seedy pimp like managers / owners, and horny pervert customer take over strip clubs then I'm taking my talents to the best burlesque club.
Melonie
06-16-2015, 12:10 PM
If extras girls, seedy pimp like managers / owners, and horny pervert customer take over strip clubs then I'm taking my talents to the best burlesque club.
^^^ that's a great option in theory ... but ...
The nearest surviving 'upscale' club is likely to be located in a very large city which may be 100+ miles away.
The nearest 'upscale' club may be deluged with 'clean' dancers seeking to work there, allowing club management to be extremely picky in regard to which new dancers they will actually allow to work in their 'upscale' club.
The nearest 'upscale' club may charge VERY high house fees ... thus putting new dancers at risk of 'losing money' if they aren't able to generate lots of private dance / VIP / CR sales immediately.
If ITC extras girls are gonna take over eventually then us (clean girls) are gonna turn to glamorized charlatans & rip them off without performing any sort of extras. I do that now bc almost 99% of the clientele coming into my club always asks before agreeing to a dance "well, am I allowed to touch?" I have to vaguely reply with a yes bc otherwise I'll lose out on the sale & I'm sick of going home with nothing & watching all the lazy ass extras girls take everything home. I love to mind fuck these guys,
Enjoy this while it lasts. Thanks to strip club review websites, strip club customer blog sites, etc. it's increasingly likely that a customer you 'ripped off' / 'mind f#@ked' will post a warning about you for other potential club customers to see. This in turn is increasingly likely to result in future customers knowing in advance that they will not receive their 'money's worth' if they choose to buy private dances from you, versus buying private dances from a different dancer whose 'extras' have been highly recommended in club customer postings on those strip club review / blog websites. As the number of 'discretionary' dollars available to most strip club customers continues to fall, those customers will become more and more inclined to research such things ... versus spending their limited number of remaining 'discretionary' dollars to find out for themselves whether a particular dancer will actually deliver their 'money's worth' or not.
stripperMBA
06-16-2015, 01:02 PM
Enjoy this while it lasts. Thanks to strip club review websites, strip club customer blog sites, etc. it's increasingly likely that a customer you 'ripped off' / 'mind f#@ked' will post a warning about you for other potential club customers to see. This in turn is increasingly likely to result in future customers knowing in advance that they will not receive their 'money's worth' if they choose to buy private dances from you, versus buying private dances from a different dancer whose 'extras' have been highly recommended in club customer postings on those strip club review / blog websites. As the number of 'discretionary' dollars available to most strip club customers continues to fall, those customers will become more and more inclined to research such things ... versus spending their limited number of remaining 'discretionary' dollars to find out for themselves whether a particular dancer will actually deliver their 'money's worth' or not.
This is absolutely true, and also one of the reasons I rarely gave my real stage name out. Unless it was a good regular. This especially in the last year I danced. One of my waitress friends noticed there was an increase in customers coming in just to see a certain dancer. Said dancer
was known for selling sex acts. Upon further asking it appeared several had done some internet reseach. It is sad , but it is just the way it is now in many clubs.
xxxGothBarbie
06-16-2015, 04:04 PM
^^^ that's a great option in theory ... but ...
The nearest surviving 'upscale' club is likely to be located in a very large city which may be 100+ miles away.
The nearest 'upscale' club may be deluged with 'clean' dancers seeking to work there, allowing club management to be extremely picky in regard to which new dancers they will actually allow to work in their 'upscale' club.
The nearest 'upscale' club may charge VERY high house fees ... thus putting new dancers at risk of 'losing money' if they aren't able to generate lots of private dance / VIP / CR sales immediately.
Enjoy this while it lasts. Thanks to strip club review websites, strip club customer blog sites, etc. it's increasingly likely that a customer you 'ripped off' / 'mind f#@ked' will post a warning about you for other potential club customers to see. This in turn is increasingly likely to result in future customers knowing in advance that they will not receive their 'money's worth' if they choose to buy private dances from you, versus buying private dances from a different dancer whose 'extras' have been highly recommended in club customer postings on those strip club review / blog websites. As the number of 'discretionary' dollars available to most strip club customers continues to fall, those customers will become more and more inclined to research such things ... versus spending their limited number of remaining 'discretionary' dollars to find out for themselves whether a particular dancer will actually deliver their 'money's worth' or not.
Well fortunatley, I've got my act together & I always give a fake name to each customer I "screw over". We can't do anything at my club anyways esp touch so most of the other girls are telling them that they can touch & I've seen some even grind on their laps in the champange rooms while I'm also in there & the mngrs get pissed. I tell them what they wanna hear in order to make my sale without actually falling thru with anything bc this club def has an expiration date so why the hell not.
I_am_out
06-28-2015, 06:37 AM
Not only Existence of extras makes me mad but also how cheap a lot of these bitches are.
I do NOT condone prostitution at strip-clubs but damn, if you wanna suck and fuck, yet have no brains to screen/advertise/etc escorting , then be so kind, at least, charge more. It's just ridiculous how some jerks feel entitled to 50$ bj and 100$ sex. Partly due to their cheapness, partly because some girls have street hooker rates. I have just read reviews about Delaware's club where half an hour in VIP cost 160$ and custies describe how girls are ready to go down on them for these peanuts. It's just for example. And there a LOT of reviews like that about other clubs.
Currently I work at 100% clean club but if I switch to somewhere dirtier then I would rather prefer to work with a couple of REALLY expensive extras' girls than with a bunch of cheap idiots.
Tourdefranzia
06-28-2015, 07:42 AM
If extras girls, seedy pimp like managers / owners, and horny pervert customer take over strip clubs then I'm taking my talents to the best burlesque club.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Burlesque doesn't pay very well, if at all. The job openings are extremely limited. I live in the strip club capital of the US, and we have 2 clubs dedicated to burlesque out of 65+ venues that offer stripper entertainment. Women perform burlesque for the love of the performance, not to earn a living.
Personally, I'd love to be able to earn $400+ a shift simply dancing on stage. That would be a dream come true! But the reality of the situation is that stage performances don't pay. A girl has to hustle to come up with enough money to pay the rent and the lights bill.
I suppose that if the club management would consistently fire girls for performing extras, there would be a lot fewer extras going on in the club. The reality is that the owners and managers like the income that extras bring into the club. If you talk to a few club owners, they actively encourage the discreet extras girls to carry on. In the case of my club, the owners willfully ignorant about the extras going on in their clubs, but pressure management to hire more girls if VIP sales are down. The owners are delusional to think that having more girls somehow equals less extras.
For dancers like me, who don't mind extras with the right customers, this is an easy decision. I get to make more money engaging in sexual activity with men I find attractive and fun. I know for a fact management knows what I do, as I've had conversations about it with the club managers. These exact same managers will send me to customers who are actively seeking extras girls, because they know I won't freak out when the guy starts talking dirty or whips out his peen during a dance.
And to whoever said selling extras was "lazy" obviously has never actually tried it. Sure, the money is faster, but the verbal gymnastics involved in the sale and then again when attempting to perform the extras in a discreet enough fashion as to not draw attention, takes mad skills. And, of course, the customers eventually get bored with what I'm willing to provide ITC and want more.
And there is always another girl willing to do more for less money than I am.
Melonie
06-28-2015, 07:47 AM
It's just ridiculous how some jerks feel entitled to 50$ bj and 100$ sex. Partly due to their cheapness, partly because some girls have street hooker rates. I have just read reviews about Delaware's club where half an hour in VIP cost 160$ and custies describe how girls are ready to go down on them for these peanuts. It's just for example. And there a LOT of reviews like that about other clubs.
Currently I work at 100% clean club but if I switch to somewhere dirtier then I would rather prefer to work with a couple of REALLY expensive extras' girls than with a bunch of cheap idiots.
^^^ again this circles back to the 'lowest common denominator' principle of business. Strip club review sites / customer blog sites etc. now effectively provide a means of 'advertising' what sort of 'services' are available from which dancers at which clubs at what prices. In general business terms, this isn't a whole lot different from 'Blue Light Specials' being advertised by WalMart !!! And also similar to WalMart customers, bargain hunting strip club customers are unlikely to agree to pay higher prices for the same 'services' at competing clubs.
The reality is that the owners and managers like the income that extras bring into the club. If you talk to a few club owners, they actively encourage the discreet extras girls to carry on
As a side note, there is another aspect of increasing 'extras' which should be of major concern to 'clean' dancers ... rising bust risk. As much as Americans might fantasize that LE only charges guilty people and that juries only convict guilty people, where 'strippers' are concerned this isn't always the case. It's certainly not unheard of for LE to 'sweep up' ALL dancers working at a given club during a bust ... thus leaving it up to a good ol' boy judge or a jury of housewives, retirees and civil servants to decide whether to take the word of a 'stripper' over the word of a law enforcement officer in regard to a busted 'clean' dancer's claims of innocence. Any 'clean' dancer finding herself in that situation will essentially be presented with two choices ... neither of them very good ...
- The club's attorney is likely to offer to arrange a plea bargain deal with the DA. This would allow both 'clean' and 'dirty' busted dancers to avoid jail time, to avoid paying a fine out of their own pocket ( typically the club's attorney will pay it with club money ), and also avoid out-of-pocket legal costs. But this will also require that the 'clean' and 'dirty' dancers enter a de-facto guilty plea to prostitution / lewd conduct etc. Such plea bargain deals and willingness to pay fines with club money are usually motivated by a tacit agreement between the DA and the club's attorney that, in exchange for delivering de-facto guilty pleas by the busted dancers, the clubowner won't be charged with other possible crimes such as promoting prostitution. Obviously, a de-facto guilty plea to a sexually related misdemeanor charge can have lasting effects on the 'clean' dancer. Ironically, 'dirty' dancers pleading to a sexually related misdemeanor charge has little or no additional consequences in the ( likely ) case of similar charges already being on the 'dirty' dancer's permanent record. Or, stated another way, the plea bargain arrangement essentially provides a 'revolving door' with no additional negative consequences to clubowners or 'dirty' dancers, with the fine money becoming just one more 'cost of doing business'.
- the 'clean' dancer can turn down the plea bargain offer and mount her own legal defense. This essentially boils down to the 'clean' dancer successfully convincing a jury made up of jealous housewives, bible thumping retirees, and loyal civil servants, that she did NOT commit any illegal acts in the strip club even though a well respected law enforcement officer says she did. This immediately gets complicated, since under many state prostitution laws a contact lap dance or a customer touching a dancer's 'erogenous zone' ( with or without the dancer's permission ) may technically violate state prostitution law. This gets further complicated due to the lack of 'credibility' the jury members will likely grant to the busted 'clean' dancer thanks to the Hollywood 'stripper' stereotype. And this gets even more complicated because being found guilty by that jury could result in the 'clean' dancer having to spend a week in the county lockup and having to pay a > $1000 fine out of her own pocket in exchange for her 'audacity' to 'waste the court's time' by actually claiming to be innocent.
I_am_out
06-28-2015, 08:00 AM
Aww, poor, poor extras girls, going through hardships of hooking up in the clubs :( Indeed, how difficult is that - keeping guys in the back with jerking them off instead of sensual,sexy dance and nice conversation. And you,m'am, are really classy lady because you limit yourself with handies only ;) You are right though that dancer gotta hustle to make 400$+. Key word is "hustle", not providing illegal services where it doesn't belong to. And you are NOT a dancer.
Hopefully, some undercover will bust your ass sooner or later.
Thanks a lot for taking part in ruining the industry. That's all I have to tell here.
miss.a.p1600
06-28-2015, 08:05 AM
??? Are you certain about that? I have a hard time believing those broads in Vegas or L.A. burlesque shows don't make any money but I will have to do more research. I do realize the hiring process is more selective. I peeped the websites for Vegas burlesque dancers and it was only like a dozen of them.....and they were all white! But yeah if they barely get paid then might as well keep the clothes on then. My tits want to get paid well for making public appearances.
I am curious though if dancers who are into extras if there is the concern about how discreet the customers are AFTERWARDS. Some dudes love bragging to their friends and other people and even other dancers and apparently to the managers or owners in your case. And from what I hear they are even dumb enough to post reviews online of their strip club escapades. Wouldn't too much of this draw the wrong kind of attention?
Melonie. Do you think there is leeway for clean dancers not to get caught up with extras dancers if VIP rooms/areas have surveillance? Wouldn't this be one way to prove someone's guilt or innocence?
Melonie
06-28-2015, 08:13 AM
I am curious though if dancers who are into extras if there is the concern about how discreet the customers are AFTERWARDS. Some dudes love bragging to their friends and other people and even other dancers and apparently to the managers or owners in your case. And from what I hear they are even dumb enough to post reviews online of their strip club escapades. Wouldn't too much of this draw the wrong kind of attention?
This circles right back to my discussion of the plea bargain 'revolving door' above. At the bottom line, no jurisdiction wants to waste time and money conducting jury trials over prostitution / lewd conduct charges, and no jurisdiction wants to waste time and money locking up girls over prostitution / lewd conduct charges. Additionally, any 'rational' jurisdiction will realize that strip clubs ( with or without extras ) are 'good' for the local economy ... they attract 'tourist' business, they provide a potential 'outlet' for horny guys thus keeping that horniness from showing up in other more negative ways, they reduce the amount of blatant prostitution taking place within public view, etc.
What the jurisdictions DO actually care about is maintaining a public 'perception' that they are doing their job and keeping strip club activities 'under control' ... a public 'perception' which is provided at very low cost if busted dancers can be made to agree to plea bargain deals, that will lead to the same local news media headlines.
miss.a.p1600
06-28-2015, 08:18 AM
Well I suppose sticking to the swing shift or the day shift would be better then? Is the police really going to bust a handful of people or wait till they have a "full house" on night shift and bust 30+ people?
Melonie
06-28-2015, 08:23 AM
^^^ that's a tough call. From the standpoint of total fine money collected, busting a busy night shift would result in more dancers being charged thus more fine money collected. But if the LE /DA's intent is confined to generating a 'favorable' headline, while minimizing the number of potentially pissed off strip club customers and minimizing out-of-pocket costs to the clubowner, busting the day shift might better serve that purpose.
However, as a practical matter, LE / DA's office also has to be somewhat careful not to entangle any strip club customers who are major local political contributors, prominent local businessmen, or otherwise 'connected' in ways that could backfire ( i.e. LE needs budget increases, and DA's have to run for re-election ). This generally favors a bust taking place during a weekend night shift, where local businessmen are NOT likely to be in attendance, and where the sheer number of busted dancers makes it impractical for LE to pay any serious attention to club customers.
The sheer number of busted dancers from a busy night shift also provides 'cover' for the DA if his decision to offer 'revolving door' plea bargains versus attempted prosecutions were to be questioned ( weekend nights being short on LE / county jail staff, arraignments having to wait until courts open on Monday, etc. )
Melonie. Do you think there is leeway for clean dancers not to get caught up with extras dancers if VIP rooms/areas have surveillance? Wouldn't this be one way to prove someone's guilt or innocence?
Maybe. The surveillance video would have to be fairly comprehensive, though ( i.e. no 'blind spots' ). Obviously, strip clubs are going to be extremely reluctant about surveilling VIP / CR areas at all, because the deep pocket VIP / CR customers which provide the lion's share of strip club profits won't want video evidence collected regarding their own VIP / CR activities !!! I can see their wives divorce attorneys salivating over the prospect of having those VIP / CR surveillance videos subpoena'd by a divorce court judge !!!
And of course there is the separate issue that in many states a contact lap dance or a club customer touching a dancer's breast ( with or without the dancer's permission ) might technically constitute the very same prostitution / lewd conduct / anti-strip club ordinance violation as the dancer giving outright HJ's, BJ's or FS !!! IMHO this is the most 'ironic' issue ... that in the eyes of the law a contact lap dance and outright sex with a strip club customer may equally constitute a sexually related misdemeanor charge. Granted that, in the absence of regular club busts in recent years, lots of 'clean' dancers have forgotten about the fact that the contact lap dances and/or customer contact they experience on a nightly basis may in fact be technically illegal.
Or, stated another way, with the exception of true zero contact clubs ( which essentially no longer exist ), any distinction between 'clean' dancers and 'dirty' dancers is now mostly a matter of psychology / self-impression ... because any legal distinction is tenuous or non-existant.
Tourdefranzia
06-29-2015, 07:44 AM
Aww, poor, poor extras girls, going through hardships of hooking up in the clubs :( Indeed, how difficult is that - keeping guys in the back with jerking them off instead of sensual,sexy dance and nice conversation. And you,m'am, are really classy lady because you limit yourself with handies only ;) You are right though that dancer gotta hustle to make 400$+. Key word is "hustle", not providing illegal services where it doesn't belong to. And you are NOT a dancer.
Hopefully, some undercover will bust your ass sooner or later.
Thanks a lot for taking part in ruining the industry. That's all I have to tell here.
I do what I like and I like my job. Extras are the norm at my club and in my town. We have live sex shows on stage (Oregon's 1st amendment protects live sex shows as free speech) and girls are wearing butt plugs while performing here. I've only been dancing in Portland for less than two years, so I certainly didn't set the pace for extras in this town, and I'm positive that extras won't cease to exist if I were to quit this minute.
Chances are that Portland will likely become a place where prostitution will be decriminalized. Oregon Decriminalized marijuana back in 1973. We kind of have a history of this sort of thing. The sex workers of Portland have a lobbyist organization and the express goal is decriminalization.
Lets look at the reality of the situation: I can pull $500/hr giving hand jobs in VIP. Or I can go home with minimum wage (or only slightly more) for giving clean dances. And I'd have to club hop as the customers will catch on to the fact that I'm the prudish one.
Many of my customers are pillars of the community, politicians, business leaders. Hell, I've got a regular who has been visiting me every week for over a year, and he is a sitting elected official.
At risk of belaboring my point: I like my job. I get off on what I do, and having sexual contact with strangers is very exciting to me. When I sell extras it is because I want to. I won't engage with every man who walks in the door with $100. He has to be hot, rich (or at least is able to pay my rates) and respectful, to get that kind of attention from me. I'd go home broke before I'd lower my standards on the kind of customer I'm willing to service. I am an adult who is providing services to other adults in exchange for money.
I saw a protest sign from the gay marriage celebrations this weekend that said "End Bible Based Discrimination." Criminalized sex work between consenting adults, I believe, falls into this category.
lokikola
06-29-2015, 08:01 AM
And to whoever said selling extras was "lazy" obviously has never actually tried it. Sure, the money is faster, but the verbal gymnastics involved in the sale and then again when attempting to perform the extras in a discreet enough fashion as to not draw attention, takes mad skills. And, of course, the customers eventually get bored with what I'm willing to provide ITC and want more.
And there is always another girl willing to do more for less money than I am.
Really? Really now? If selling extras isn't lazy and oh so difficult looks like no one would offer them. This is straight up bullshit. You think you're the only one who interacts with customers seeking extras? Every night we are propositioned for it and a simple yes will suffice to make $1000 in just a few moments.
Hustling is an art. Any bitch can lay on her back and take some dick. Using your mouthpiece to get what you need is what hustle is. And by using your mouthpiece I don't mean using it to suck dick, but by using words, body language. Thats an art that maybe not most are born with but can be crafted and developed or we can just do it Tootsies style and skip the whole notion of what stripping is and go straight to fucking.
We are swallowing this "poor me because extras aren't easy" bullshit. You're fucking lazy. Thats it.
I have no problem with prostitution. I have a problem with it fucking up my money in the club. I go on paid dates for very short times without having sex with clients and charge more than what girls fucking in clubs do. That also is something I had to learn to do.
wednesday86
06-29-2015, 08:08 AM
I'm grateful to be back in a club where (most) of the customers haven't been trained to expect extras....and if I do see them going on I will not hesitate to call the bitch out on it and get her fired. Nothing against prostitution. Hell if I wasn't married I would seriously consider escorting, but keep it out of my club. It's bad enough many VIP customers now request kissing. I get at least one "will you kiss me if I take you back there?" every shift. Then they tell me that "so and so" makes out with them all the time...Oh now that you said that, Yes I really want that other stripper's cold sores and spit germs! Where else has your mouth been? GAG!
Melonie
06-29-2015, 12:06 PM
I'm grateful to be back in a club where (most) of the customers haven't been trained to expect extras....and if I do see them going on I will not hesitate to call the bitch out on it and get her fired
Indeed you should be grateful to be working in such a club.
Recently, there have been some reports of 'clean' dancers who complained about 'dirty' dancers to club management being 'shown the door' themselves ... because the clubowner concluded that 'dirty' dancers were actually earning the club more money than the 'clean' dancers, while any potential bust risk would actually fall on the 'dirty' dancers themselves and not on the clubowner.
Thus, from a purely financial standpoint, the clubowner had nothing to lose and much to gain by converting the entire club to 'dirty' dancers. And from a pragmatic standpoint, having 100% 'dirty' dancers eliminates customer confusion and dressing room drama between 'clean' and 'dirty' dancers as well.
It's truly a different business model when 'clean' dancers begin to be looked on as a 'liability' by clubowners, while 'dirty' dancers are increasingly seen as an income producing asset.
I_am_out
06-29-2015, 12:17 PM
I do what I like and I like my job. Extras are the norm at my club and in my town. We have live sex shows on stage (Oregon's 1st amendment protects live sex shows as free speech) and girls are wearing butt plugs while performing here. I've only been dancing in Portland for less than two years, so I certainly didn't set the pace for extras in this town, and I'm positive that extras won't cease to exist if I were to quit this minute.
Chances are that Portland will likely become a place where prostitution will be decriminalized. Oregon Decriminalized marijuana back in 1973. We kind of have a history of this sort of thing. The sex workers of Portland have a lobbyist organization and the express goal is decriminalization.
Lets look at the reality of the situation: I can pull $500/hr giving hand jobs in VIP. Or I can go home with minimum wage (or only slightly more) for giving clean dances. And I'd have to club hop as the customers will catch on to the fact that I'm the prudish one.
Many of my customers are pillars of the community, politicians, business leaders. Hell, I've got a regular who has been visiting me every week for over a year, and he is a sitting elected official.
At risk of belaboring my point: I like my job. I get off on what I do, and having sexual contact with strangers is very exciting to me. When I sell extras it is because I want to. I won't engage with every man who walks in the door with $100. He has to be hot, rich (or at least is able to pay my rates) and respectful, to get that kind of attention from me. I'd go home broke before I'd lower my standards on the kind of customer I'm willing to service. I am an adult who is providing services to other adults in exchange for money.
I saw a protest sign from the gay marriage celebrations this weekend that said "End Bible Based Discrimination." Criminalized sex work between consenting adults, I believe, falls into this category.
Girls like you are partly the reason why a lot of clean dancers in certain areas of country have to leave work every night with peanuts. And sorry, but I refuse to believe that there are enough HOT and RESPECTFUL extras-seeking customers in your club so you can make a decent profit. Actually, in my eyes, customer isn't respectful by definition if he requests extras.And just because you turn tricks in extra-ridden club/city doesn't mean that it doesn't affect dancers from others clubs, even other regions of country. Just last night I had a dude from LA who asked me if I can fuck him for 100$. I said that I don't do that(actually nobody in my club does) and even if I was a prostitute, I would charge waaaaaay more. He started telling how even hot girls in CA are consent with that amount, bla bla bla. I just walked away and while this jackass was still sitting there, teasing his balls, I sold multiple private dances with nothing sexual included. But sorry, lol, I got distracted.
And even if customer lives in more or less area, thanks to Internet and TUSCL, he can found where he can find the best bang for his buck.
Anyway, you are grown-ass woman. Not that I will manage to convince you to dance clean, so I don't think, further arguing is useful. I just want to clear my position about it.
Starling
06-29-2015, 01:06 PM
This is an unpopular opinion, but I like to hear an opinion from the other side and what their rationale with extras are. I don't get to hear candid opinions too often without them being run off the site, and when I do I just get the impression that the ones doing it for extra money cope with alcohol or are drug addicts. Only one I met was neither, but she tricked on the side when funds were low. Extras are almost everywhere and are never going to go away, that cat is out of the bag.