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View Full Version : Dancing. Declining industry? Is it worth really getting serious about?



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wednesday86
06-19-2015, 12:22 PM
Exactly. The only girls I hear complaining about dying clubs are the ones who are sitting in the dressing room eating chicken wings while there are customers out on the floor to make money from! "No one makes money here" they say as the top 5 girls already have $500 at 10 PM.


This is so true! There are some really negative dancers at my club, always in the back, bitching constantly that there's no money every time I go in the DR. I don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Even in slow season I always made money at this club. You just actually have to have a good attitude and try. You can't make money in the dressing room, as my bestie used to say.

Tourdefranzia
06-20-2015, 03:53 PM
FYI, the 90's were so good because so few women were willing to strip for a living. The social ostracization was intense. I got thrown out of restaurants and motels for no other reason than "we don't serve your kind here." I wish I was joking. In Oregon, we now have protections that include "source of income" that prevent landlords from either evicting a tenant or refusing to rent to someone who works in the sex industry. Not all states have those protections. I knew girls who lost custody of their children based solely on the fact that they danced for a living. Sometimes to horrible fathers. I knew other girls who had to pick between seeing their kids and dancing due to court orders.

Anti-stripper feelings made their way into pop culture. Just check out this clip from Family Guy in 1999 (season 3, episode 3). (http://www.cellsea.com/video/detail/V4a3d188203756.htm)In the show, a murdered stripper is a laugh line.

xxxGothBarbie
06-20-2015, 05:16 PM
I second what Tour just said. Nowadays it's become almost "normal" to do this job. Between social media & entertainment, it's def glamorized stripping to make more younger girls take it up as a regular job & do so well they want to stick with it.

Selina M
06-20-2015, 05:19 PM
^ I would almost rather it still be that way. I'm so tired of the baby strippers coming in because it's 'cool' and flooding the place.
I mean, it's kinda nice to be able to tell people I'm a stripper and not have that intense stigma immediately, but at the same time I feel like Soso from OITNB, when she explodes at visitation: "You're so edgy and cool, living the dream!" "It is not COOL. It is not FUN." Okay, it is fun to a point, but it's not what they show in movies.

I think the industry is declining to a point, but I don't think the sky is completely falling. It's going to require anyone who wants to make it their only job to adapt with the changes, and be at the top of their game. We'll probably see mostly part-time dancers, and I think many clubs will go out of business, but many will survive. I wouldn't discourage a newbie from starting, but just to check their expectations at the door and really be committed to learning if they want to make good $$.

It's like any other industry that got flooded. I watched it happen with ballroom dance, and it was an exact parallel to strip clubs: it exploded due to Dancing With the Stars, tons of studios opened up, and then the bottom fell out and it slowed down. Now the studios that are left have either owners with financial backing in other places (aka, a dancer with a 2nd job), or owners who really know their shit in business (aka, many of the girls on here, Michele, Melonie, etc.), or are on top in dance itself as high level competitors (aka, feature dancers, those who market the fuck out of themselves, etc.). All the Joe Schmoes who just opened a studio or became instructors because it seemed easy? Ixnay. Same with strippers.
The whole industry didn't go kaput, but those who couldn't hack it in some fashion certainly did. I suspect that is what is gradually happening with dancing.

Melonie
06-21-2015, 04:54 AM
the 90's were so good because so few women were willing to strip for a living. The social ostracization was intense. I got thrown out of restaurants and motels for no other reason than "we don't serve your kind here." I wish I was joking. In Oregon, we now have protections that include "source of income" that prevent landlords from either evicting a tenant or refusing to rent to someone who works in the sex industry. Not all states have those protections. I knew girls who lost custody of their children based solely on the fact that they danced for a living

Fortunately, the vast majority of these SOCIAL stigmas ... which as you say were not uncommon ~20 years ago ... have fallen by the proverbial wayside today. Society in general, and court systems in particular, have come to the conclusion that a girl who chooses to work as an exotic dancer can also be a good mother, financially responsible, drug free, etc. Thus girls who have thoughts about dancing as a 'serious, professional' career are likely to encounter far fewer SOCIAL stigmas today than they would have ~20 years ago.

However, circling back to the original topic of this thread, there has been one major change from ~20 years ago which bears noting. That change involves the ability to successfully 'walk away' from one's history as a dancer. ~20 years ago, dancer income tax filings mostly depended on the 'honor system'. There was no such thing as 1099-misc reports being issued to the IRS by strip clubs officially reporting dancers' incomes. There was basically no such thing as dancer's licenses creating a 'public record' that a particular girl registered herself to work as an exotic dancer. And there was also no such thing as pictures / videos of dancers being shot by strip clubs or strip club customers being posted to the publically accessible internet.

For 'serious, professional' dancers, the increasing inability to 'walk away' from one's history as a dancer probably means little or nothing. This is based on a scenario where a girl plans to devote many years of full time effort towards earning money as a dancer, followed by 'retirement' with enough money in the bank to never NEED to work at a straight job. For less 'serious' dancers, the increasing inability to 'walk away' from one's history as a dancer probably means little or nothing as well ... as long as 'life after dancing' is going to involve a 'vanilla' job where the concerns of prospective employers are limited to applicants having a criminal record. However, in the special case of girls who plan to use dancing as a temporary means of funding a college degree leading to a 'professional' straight career, the increasing inability to 'walk away' from one's history as a dancer bears at least some degree of thought ... because prospective 'professional' employers are now highly likely to go well beyond a criminal record check when evaluating 'professional' job applicants.

As was pointed out earlier, there are indeed some 'work-arounds' available for highly successful dancers who later pursue 'professional' careers given their well known history of adult industry work. Being sufficiently well acquainted with high level politicians can often open 'professional' employers' doors, particularly so in the public sector. Spending enough VIP time with corporate exec's / corporation board members etc. can lead to an 'expedited' hiring process in the private sector. However, these 'work-arounds' should be viewed as relatively rare occurrences.



It's like any other industry that got flooded. I watched it happen with ballroom dance, and it was an exact parallel to strip clubs: it exploded due to Dancing With the Stars, tons of studios opened up, and then the bottom fell out and it slowed down

Interesting analogy !!! However, I would point out that there is a limitation to your analogy ... in that it's only applicable when speaking of strip clubs where, like ballroom clubs, DANCES are the only thing being 'sold' to customers. When certain strip clubs and certain exotic dancers start to sell more dollars worth of 'extras' than they do dances, the analogy fails.

As a follow-up, the argument can be made that today's exotic dancing industry is really splitting into two separate business models ... upscale strip clubs which remain show business oriented and derive their revenues from a high earning metropolitan customer base, and other strip clubs which are increasingly 'sex' business oriented that derive a significant portion of their revenues from the sale of 'extras'. Both of these business models will remain financially viable in the future. However, it is arguable that other strip clubs which fall in the 'middle' ... i.e. they lack an upscale image / high earning customer base, but also do not offer the 'extras' which appear to be increasingly necessary to convince lower earning customers to part with significant amounts of money ... face an increasingly bleak financial future.

Selina M
06-21-2015, 11:09 AM
^ That is true, thank Jesus there's no hand jobs for sale under the tables at Black Tie :rotfl:

I can, however, see the parallel between the upscale clubs vs. extras clubs.... we also have upscale places that cater to people with money to blow, but that require a skilled sales staff to get the customers to part with it... the 'regular schmoozing' is definitely a thing, and they are just like strip club regulars, with expiration dates. The "extras" clubs are basically our lower-tier places, with awful quality instructors and an increasing reliance on gimmicks and cheap deals to get people through the doors... again, creating things the other studios are not willing to compete with. The result is again, either go out of business, or set yourself apart to a higher end clientele.

The more I think about it, the more I agree that the industry is not declining necessarily, but probably more leveling out. Of course, those who are used to making $1k routinely will see it as a decline.

Dayila
06-22-2015, 08:05 AM
If I was a younger dancer, I would save my money a try to make a million and life of the the darn interest. Start up a business so that I would not be at the mercy of any employer when I finished dancing. Actually a mature dancer could pull this off tow depending, on her responsibilities and life style.

But yes a exit strategy is key. Save save. I had many horrible events happen in my life where I had to help family with medical bills etc etc. I said these last 3years I am going to try to save every dime I can.

Cashmere Star
06-23-2015, 01:51 PM
I am sure it's declining, but what isn't? Better than being unemployed :D

tempest666
06-23-2015, 02:41 PM
Oh I agree. I'm grateful to be comfortably employed. I just don't suffer from the delusional positivity that the younger generation seems to be afflicted with. I know the state of affairs and my place in it. For now things are peachy and I'm going to keep it that way for as long as I can. I just don't delude myself into thinking that a "Pollyanna shitting rainbows and unicorns" attitude is going to keep the boogeyman away forever. But hey different strokes for different folks. I've always been a realist. Some people call it pessimism.

Neonsugar
07-06-2015, 10:25 PM
Bumping this thread. Any other opinions? How long do you think dancing with be profitable for? (Atleast a grand a week)

Melonie
07-07-2015, 03:27 AM
^^^ if the dancer is willing to throw in 'extras', forever !!!

SnuffleUffleGrass
07-07-2015, 10:51 AM
Bumping this thread. Any other opinions? How long do you think dancing with be profitable for? (Atleast a grand a week)

Honestly if a dancer is willing to deal with porn addicted customers and the eternal staple, the middle aged male going through a mid-life crisis. Also speaking honestly my money from escorting far surpassed what I made dancing. In other words a dancer has to be THE TOP SHELF item. Dancers are competing with plentiful escorts and FREE internet porn.

BTW not all strip club customers want to go to escorts. Some literally cannot afford the risks (getting caught, spending too much or getting blackmailed by the escort.) Others are so egotistical they think they are going to date a dancer by being her regular. AS IF.

ScarletKitten
07-08-2015, 01:40 AM
^^^ if the dancer is willing to throw in 'extras', forever !!!

Wow. What a way to encourage dancers to provide extras in fear that they won't make money otherwise.


Ladies, don't give in to fear. We want to avoid extras, not encourage them. The art of seduction will NEVER die. Don't give in to submitting to these men, kneeling down before them to service them. Just keep dancing, be seductive, use your intuition, use your sex magic in ways that don't involve extras. (Edit: by sex magic, I mean the Law of Attraction.)

Noone can possibly predict when/if strip clubs will all die off. Society as we know it is always changing. NEVER submit to fear tactics. Believe in yourself, despite all odds, despite raw data, despite trends, despite everything. BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. That's all there is to it.

As long as men have a need for a woman's company and attention, women will always be able to make money using their sex appeal. And no that does NOT mean you have to provide extras. It just means you have to tease their mind. Getting them off is too easy. You're not playing the game right by doing that. You have to make them want to work to win you over. Women have advantage over men this way. It's in our favor, not the other way around.

I've thought about this more, and honestly, I don't see strip clubs all shutting down worldwide anytime soon, at least not for decades. Porn gets men off, but it doesn't provide that essential companionship and attention that men seek. Men come to strip clubs because they crave being around feminine energy, that is what it comes down to. If they want to get off, they have porn or escorts. But strip clubs are a whole other experience in their own unique playground space in the mind. Men get to be around numerous women in thongs and heels, drink, sit back, enjoy the show, or "get to know" a dancer. Strip clubs are also unique party atmospheres that can't really be compared to any other establishment. It's a whole other experience than hiring an escort IMO.

So....fuck this fear that we won't be able to make money anymore by dancing clean. You are your own business, so run it the way YOU want!

ImmoralAllure
07-08-2015, 02:18 AM
deleted

GlitterButterfly
07-08-2015, 07:56 AM
^^^ if the dancer is willing to throw in 'extras', forever !!!
That is until her looks go bad.

whirlerz
07-08-2015, 08:24 AM
That is until her looks go bad.

All cats are grey in the dark.

Flickdreams
07-08-2015, 08:30 AM
As ScarletKitten said, The art of seduction will never die. For example here in Australia, brothels are legal. It is standard that it costs more to spend an hour with a stripper than it does with a prostitute. And us strippers are still making bank! The stripper offers companionship and the "possibility" that maybe one day you could date her (LOL), a place to party with your friends surrounded by hot chicks that is more socially acceptable than a brothel (ie to take work clients to the strippers is normal), and your wife wouldn't get upset about the strippers as she would with the brothel so it's the easier choice on your conscious.

Also 99% of us strippers have the same mindset that we are not into extras, which is keeping the industry clean. Strippers giving extras would be ostracised and fired. They have the option of being a legal prostitute here, so if that's what they want to do they can go and do it at the appropriate place.

However you still have the occasional guys who like to point out "Why would I pay $500/hr to see you naked when I could go to the brothel and get a full service for less than that" yeah well we don't like those guys anyway!

I guess this is the biggest difference why Australian strippers are not experiencing this fear that the industry is changing/dying/going downhill.

According to some statistics on Australian income , I am in the top 2.9% of female earners in the country. (And that's without fancy regular clients)

It sounds to me from whats being posted that clean $$$ can still be made in America and have been made for those willing to make it happen.

SnuffleUffleGrass
07-08-2015, 09:00 AM
I feel like the bar is set higher for dancers now. From what I read about stripping in the 1960s and 70s, it was a lifestyle thing & very much on the fringe of society. NOW post- 2000....even middle schoolers watch graphic porn and see explicit shit on facebook. To compete with all that is very difficult.

Men will never change though. I feel like I deal with more pathetic male attention at my day jobs than I ever did in a strip bar. Men are aware of the power dynamics in a titty bar, but in the real world they are always going to be sad little creatures at the mercy of their dicks. I mean, I love my current partner but I'd put him in the same category.

DreamsInDigital
07-08-2015, 09:03 AM
Zombie Strippers are likely to 'starve to death' ... due to a general lack of 'brains' among many strip club customers these days !!!
:rotfl:

whirlerz
07-08-2015, 09:04 AM
Men will never change though. I feel like I deal with more pathetic male attention at my day jobs than I ever did in a strip bar. Men are aware of the power dynamics in a titty bar, but in the real world they are always going to be sad little creatures at the mercy of their dicks.

A Power statement, if ever there was^.

Aniela
07-08-2015, 09:11 AM
I agree partially w/ SK & ImmoralAllure, re: 'the art of seduction will nvr die' argument ... at the same time, I have to side w/ Tempest & the other more realistic/pessimistic attitudes on this subj. Seduction + sales skills are all well & good, but as another poster has said, to make it as a clean dancer, you NEED to be at the top of your game. A 'top shelf' item as was said. Hookup culture & low-balling providers have fostered the increasing entitlement among SC customers to favours that don't fall under a clean dancer's job description, & that is a sad fact that can't be overlooked.

The other sad fact is that it's often much easier for club staff to look the other way when it comes to handling extras, esp in the short term, & there are enough girls that are desperate/lazy/greedy/ignorant abt how this business SHOULD work that clean dancers can easily be replaced. While I agree w/ the spirit of SK's post, I think the first & final paragraphs of that post are the perfect example of 'rainbow-shitting Pollyanna' optimism that Tempest was pointing at. Optimism & 'not kneeling down to service The Man' alone are not going to be enough to preserve clean dancers' place in the hierarchy. In fact I can think of more than one thread on this board where girls have discussed being fired specifically bc they refused to provide extras. Dancers absolutely need to unite & stand their ground to keep the clubs safe & clean, but oversimplifying it w/ a 'Just stay positive & keep the faith!' attitude isn't going to do us any real favours.

GlitterButterfly
07-08-2015, 09:32 AM
The other sad fact is that it's often much easier for club staff to look the other way when it comes to handling extras, esp in the short term, & there are enough girls that are desperate/lazy/greedy/ignorant abt how this business SHOULD work that clean dancers can easily be replaced. While I agree w/ the spirit of SK's post, I think the first & final paragraphs of that post are the perfect example of 'rainbow-shitting Pollyanna' optimism that Tempest was pointing at. Optimism & 'not kneeling down to service The Man' alone are not going to be enough to preserve clean dancers' place in the hierarchy. In fact I can think of more than one thread on this board where girls have discussed being fired specifically bc they refused to provide extras. Dancers absolutely need to unite & stand their ground to keep the clubs safe & clean, but oversimplifying it w/ a 'Just stay positive & keep the faith!' attitude isn't going to do us any real favours.

Just wow at this part!

Vyanka
07-08-2015, 11:41 AM
Not anyone should be in this business. If you gotta do certain things, instead of hustling... you shouldn't be in it. This business isn't for anyone with a pulse breathing. It takes a strong, smart girl to do this right. Not some weakling, giving whatever loser whatever he wants and the world. Get what YOU want. Be that boss bitch.

A lot of girls still make bank, clean. It's doable, just gotta be smart.

This thread should decline :-P

Starling
07-08-2015, 04:31 PM
Any other opinions? How long do you think dancing with be profitable for? (Atleast a grand a week)

All I can really do is quote from one thread:


There is still money out there, even for clean dancers, but at a much higher cost. Go in and get it while you still can, go to school, invest it, and save every penny, because it will just keep getting slower.

This thread is very much like an older thread for those interested:

https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?188063-WTF-has-happend

whirlerz
07-08-2015, 04:42 PM
Not anyone should be in this business. If you gotta do certain things, instead of hustling... you shouldn't be in it. This business isn't for anyone with a pulse breathing. It takes a strong, smart girl to do this right. Not some weakling, giving whatever loser whatever he wants and the world. Get what YOU want. Be that boss bitch.

A lot of girls still make bank, clean. It's doable, just gotta be smart.

This thread should decline :-P

:yes::thanx:

Melonie
07-08-2015, 05:10 PM
This thread is very much like an older thread for those interested:



True ... with the addition of 2 more years worth of the industry moving away from dancing being 'show business' and toward dancing being 'sex business'.

Raven88
07-09-2015, 05:11 AM
I second what Tour just said. Nowadays it's become almost "normal" to do this job. Between social media & entertainment, it's def glamorized stripping to make more younger girls take it up as a regular job & do so well they want to stick with it.

Third. Even in the early-mid 2000's this was not something I talked about with civilians and when I did, their reactions were so intense ie: it wasn't a normal job and people were shocked and sometimes disgusted to meet a real stripper! Not as many women were willing to do this type of work, but now that customers are declining, and more girls are coming in who don't know the industry and think it's all about extras, or allow themselves to be abused by customers for a little $$ (speaking of no one in particular here) it makes it harder for us clean dancers to make good, fast money.

I recently took a 6 month break and noticed the clubs have changed dramatically in my city,and not in a good way just to give you an idea.


That being said, I've still had good nights, and made more than my friend who was serving at bars.

I think you should try it out and see if it's worth it for YOU. No one else can tell you that but you.

Good luck