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eagle2
07-19-2015, 08:47 PM
It's not that you're wanting to point out intolerance or bigotry. It's the fact that you're using intolerance and bigotry to do it that is a problem. Being bigoted towards Christians because they're bigoted against same sex marriage does nothing. The end result is two bigots screaming at eachother. It accomplishes nothing but making both parties look stupid.

Not all Christians are 'bigoted against same sex marriage'. There are quite a few that aren't.

Dirty Ernie
07-20-2015, 07:42 AM
If you silence the bigots, you lose the ability to identify them. If you're not careful, you may end up doing business with them, help make them be successful, and maybe even voting for one.

HoolaTwister
07-20-2015, 08:30 AM
If you silence the bigots, you lose the ability to identify them. If you're not careful, you may end up doing business with them, help make them be successful, and maybe even voting for one.

Yes because the people you disagree with should just go off and die or whatever, right? Tolerance! Lol

HoolaTwister
07-20-2015, 08:33 AM
If you silence the bigots, you lose the ability to identify them. If you're not careful, you may end up doing business with them, help make them be successful, and maybe even voting for one.

In your perfect world "bigots" would be "identified" and sent to the gulags probably. Progress!

Dirty Ernie
07-20-2015, 09:35 AM
In your perfect world "bigots" would be "identified" and sent to the gulags probably. Progress!

Yes, because everyone knows people in gulags own businesses and run for public office. How you got to this, I have no clue.

HoolaTwister
07-20-2015, 09:39 AM
Yes, because everyone knows people in gulags own businesses and run for public office. How you got to this, I have no clue.

Uhm lots of people who owned business and were in politics were sent to the gulags. Because people like you thought their views and opinions were "wrong" and had to be "identified."

kirakonstantin
07-20-2015, 01:46 PM
Not all Christians are 'bigoted against same sex marriage'. There are quite a few that aren't.

Oh, ffs. Need to call in the referee for this one. Quibbling over semantics = I have no argument, so I'm going to nitpick the most minute details to stay in the discussion.

Look, there is a way for everyone to coexist, with everybody's rights intact, but nobody seems to want to sit down with an open mind to explore those options. And I blame my parents generation for that, because of the firmly entrenched entitlement mentality that started with my generation and has spread like a fucking plague ever since. Instead of working through these issues like grown ups, there's an immediate culture war, brought on by a widespread inability to give a single fuck about anyone or anything else, but that which provides validation and an ego stroke. Everybody has to fight, everybody has to identify and destroy what offends their delicate sensibilities. And that's on both sides of the argument. It is, has been and will always be completely unproductive.

So... fight it out. The culture war accomplish nothing but to waste time and energy, like petulant children throwing a tantrum over a perceived injustice. When the culture warriors are down for naptime, the adults in society will find that happy medium without you.

Trem
07-20-2015, 01:56 PM
Getting to discriminate against others over their sexual orientation is not a right. There isn't an option where we allow bigots to treat gays as second class citizens, period. We are going to work through this issues though, in less than a decade business that don't serve gays will be as common as those than don't serve blacks. Achieving equality is wasting neither time nor energy and blatant discrimination is not "perceived" injustice, it's just plain injustice.

kirakonstantin
07-20-2015, 02:09 PM
Getting to discriminate against others over their religious beliefs is not a right. There isn't an option where we allow bigots to shut down Christian owned businesses, period.

Works the other way too...

Time for the logical fallacy referee.

http://i.imgur.com/r46V2hU.jpg

Trem
07-20-2015, 02:13 PM
No it does not, they can believe whatever they want they just can't discriminate against people. It is an extremely simple concept.

kirakonstantin
07-20-2015, 02:26 PM
It's simple to you, because you're failing to acknowledge an equal and opposite viewpoint. You're only seeing things from your own perspective and therefore don't acknowledge the ramifications of imposing your extremely biased solution on others.

Trem
07-20-2015, 02:33 PM
The right to discriminate against others is not in any way shape or form an "equal and opposite" viewpoint, that is a ridiculous assertion.

kirakonstantin
07-20-2015, 02:39 PM
Trem, we have same sex marriage vs. 1st amendment rights, which guarantee the freedom to free exercise of one's religious beliefs. Just because you don't necessarily like something does not automatically make it wrong and subject to extermination. They are both fundamental rights and both equally valid rights. Taking rights away is almost always a horrible idea, at best. At worst... we can delve into that, if you'd like. I used to live in a society where being pro homosexuality or pro religion was grounds for imprisonment. Or just being shot.

The idea that people can be religious in their homes and churches only is EXACTLY like the notion that being homosexuality is fine, as long as you never let on outside your home. BOTH are wrong. BOTH are horribly intolerant. BOTH are evil.

Trem
07-20-2015, 02:43 PM
It has nothing to do with me liking something or not liking it, freedom of religion does not give you free reign to do whatever you want, period. Full stop. We are not taking away anyone's rights, nobody had that right to begin with. People can be religious anywhere they want to as long as they are not harming others in the process.

kirakonstantin
07-20-2015, 02:58 PM
Forcing someone to associate with something they find morally objectionable us also harm.

Until you're willing to take the blinders off and check your bias, there's really nothing more to do but to wait until the culture war ends.

What's extremely sad is that, philosophically, I completely understand and support your views. The way you're going about this is so unilateral and repressive that you've succeeded in strengthening the opposing viewpoint. Not a win...

Dirty Ernie
07-20-2015, 03:13 PM
Uhm lots of people who owned business and were in politics were sent to the gulags. Because people like you thought their views and opinions were "wrong" and had to be "identified."

Oy. My point is, as an individual, a free person in society, I'd prefer to do business with someone who would not discriminate. If those who would, are badgered and coerced into being afraid to voice a contrary opinion how will I ever ascertain how they feel? Nothing about laws or government or anyone being hauled off.

kirakonstantin
07-20-2015, 03:22 PM
Oy. My point is, as an individual, a free person in society, I'd prefer to do business with someone who would not discriminate. If those who would, are badgered and coerced into being afraid to voice a contrary opinion how will I ever ascertain how they feel? Nothing about laws or government or anyone being hauled off.

This I can get behind. Allow people to do their thing and let free enterprise weed them out. Really, that's the whole point of a free market. Business owners can have their policies, their inventory and their customer service practices. Customers can decide if they want to support them, by patronizing their business or not. The problem essentially solves itself.

eagle2
07-20-2015, 04:28 PM
If you silence the bigots, you lose the ability to identify them. If you're not careful, you may end up doing business with them, help make them be successful, and maybe even voting for one.

I couldn't care less whether or not someone is a bigot, as long as they follow the law.