View Full Version : Dancers do you think backpage and escorts are hurting the stripping business?
Swarovskibunny
07-18-2015, 12:20 PM
I felt an obligation to post this when I saw a previous post about extras-girls knowingly spreading STDs. Here are some public health fun facts for guys who think that paying for extras is safe, that they are safe as long as they use a condom, or that trying to kiss strippers is safe:
1)"Another misconception about oral sex is that it’s “safe”. This is a dangerous myth. Although pregnancy is not an issue with oral sex, a wide variety of STD’s (sexually transmitted diseases) can be spread through oral sex. Oral sex has been found to spread syphilis, gonorrhea, HIV, HPV, genital herpes, chlamydia and possibly hepatitis C." Because STDs can be spread genital-to-mouth, these same diseases can be spread mouth-to-mouth if one partner has previously contracted an std in his/her mouth. I.e....kissing is fucking gross and custies...we don't know your medical history, please DO NOT ask us to kiss you!
2) "Male condoms may not cover all infected areas or areas that could become infected. Thus, they are likely to provide greater protection against STDs that are transmitted only by genital fluids (STDs such as gonorrhea, chlamydia, trichomoniasis, and HIV infection) than against infections that are transmitted primarily by skin-to-skin contact, which may or may not infect areas covered by a condom (STDs such as genital herpes, human papillomavirus [HPV] infection, syphilis, and chancroid)." And if the condom has a hole in it, all bets are off.
Well, good luck to all the trolls out there looking for strange. Just know that you can only spin the roulette gun so many times before it pops.
Sources:
http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/brief.html
Edwards, S., Carne, C., Oral sex and the transmission of viral STI’s, sexually transmitted Infections, 1998, 74 (1) 6-10.
Disease information: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for HIV, STD and TB Prevention Division of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, Fact Sheets found at: http://www.cdc.gov/STD/HealthComm/fact_sheet.htm
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Sexually Transmitted Disease Surveillance 2007. Atlanta Georgia: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, found at: http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats07/tables/1.htm
Carey, Lytle, & Cyr (1999). Implications of laboratory tests of condom integrity. Sex Transm Dis, 26(4): 216-20.
Lytle, Routson, Seaborn, Dixon, Bushar, & Cyr (1997). An in vitro evaluation of condoms as barriers to a small virus. Sex Transm Dis, 24(3):161-164
CDC (2006). Sexually Transmitted Diseases Treatment Guidelines, 2006. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 55(RR-11).
Steiner, Cates, & Warner (1999). The real problem with male condoms is non-use. Sex Transm Dis, 26(8): 459-62.
Warner, Stone, Macaluso, Buehler, & Austin (2006). Condom use and risk of gonorrhea and Chlamydia: A systematic review of design and measurement factors assessed in epidemiologic studies. Sex Transm Dis, 33(1): 36-51.
Weller & Davis (2001). Condom effectiveness in reducing heterosexual HIV transmission. Cochrane Database Syst Rev; 3:CD003255.
Selina M
07-18-2015, 12:45 PM
Just because a girl isn't getting dances doesn't mean she isn't getting paid. I rarely get dances. I'm talking at a table or in VIP. The girls always get paid for their time.
These girls come back into the dressing room, drunk as skunks, and then are on the phone with their boyfriends that they can't leave because they owe house fee. Others have admitted they were talking to the guy because they were bored and 'there's nobody spending $$ anyway'.
So no, they are not getting paid for their time.
Optimist
07-18-2015, 02:45 PM
I sometimes think if I allowed full-on sex, with kissing and fucking and everything, I'd still get guys going "I'm not allowed to kill you? Not even a little bit? This girl in Seattle totally let me kill her". You are so right: it's not about [whatever they're asking for], it's about being special and getting the girl to do MORE.
Hallelujah! It's forcing a woman out of her safety and comfort and self respect zone. It's never something nice and cute that they pressure you to do. Some people have personality disorders and come to the club to play out abuse others won't tolerate.
wednesday86
07-18-2015, 02:51 PM
I've only had a couple customers mention back page to me, complaining that an escort is cheaper than a VIP room with me. Without exception they are annoying cheap asses and they smell bad. Men that I would not want to dance for anyway...It has not affected business with the real customers.
rickdugan
07-21-2015, 10:15 AM
^ That, and girls that talk to guys for FREE for half an hour...
...My club has a crapload of 'furniture' because girls will sit with them for an hour to get a free vodka red bull :banghead: You could, ya know, sell a dance to someone and buy your own, with a 10 minute time investment instead of 60 minutes. Dumbasses.
Just because a girl isn't getting dances doesn't mean she isn't getting paid. I rarely get dances. I'm talking at a table or in VIP. The girls always get paid for their time.
These girls come back into the dressing room, drunk as skunks, and then are on the phone with their boyfriends that they can't leave because they owe house fee. Others have admitted they were talking to the guy because they were bored and 'there's nobody spending $$ anyway'.
So no, they are not getting paid for their time.
I don't want to sidetrack this thread and I normally avidly avoid dancer earning discussions, but I share NR's views on this one. Even putting aside so-called extras, IME and IMHO savvier dancers with strong interpersonal skills understand that there are multiple ways to earn in a club and decide how much time to invest in each prospect on a case-by-case basis. Setting arbitrary rules about how long each girl is supposed to sit with a customer may help girls who can only earn in one way, but it is at the expense of those who have the skills to earn in multiple ways and/or those who run longer hustles. Also, every club and customer base is different and some shifts and/or places simply require a different approach.
And while the girls in your example were not being paid, I can assure you than anyone who is sitting with me for any length of time is getting something for it. I also know with certainty that I'm not the only guy feeding tips under the table to entertaining women. Yet I hear this same type of gripe on a customer site, with guys complaining that girls camp out forever with guys who are not buying dances, and I say the same thing there as well: We don't really know why she is sitting there or what she is earning.
Miss_Red
07-21-2015, 11:11 AM
Continuing the probable threadjack because it's a more interesting conversation than the original stupidity. I agree with rickdugan that it can be hard to tell when a girl is getting tipped for her time. Also, I've definitely taken a gamble and talked to someone for half an hour if I thought they were going to buy big on a slow night. Sometimes that gamble doesn't pay off, but sometimes it saves my night.
But there are undeniably those girls, usually new, that sit on customers without trying to close the deal. We had one girl who would sit next to a customer NOT TALKING but blocking all the real hustlers from approaching the table. And another who would start spouting radical feminist theory at people without provocation. Killed the mood and ran off customers. Definitely way worse for my bottom line than any Backpage ad.
The reason those girls are new is because they don't make it. You can't make money like that, and eventually management realizes they're not selling anything, so the problem takes care of itself in a few months(at least at my club, where most of the club's money comes from private dances).
Selina M
07-21-2015, 08:29 PM
While I understand the facet that you don't know how they are making money, it is a club by club basis. There has developed a culture at mine because there are girls who are happy with the $50-$100 they sell in dances and are content to spend the rest of their time chatting with other custies for free. The problem does not take care of itself in this case, and we get customers who get miffed when a girl expects to be paid for her time.
My club is NOT full of mega hustlers, which makes it easier for those of us who do hustle, but is a double edged sword with that miniature culture.
Omegaphallic
07-21-2015, 09:47 PM
The Men think of sex every 30 seconds is bullshit, no one could fuction like a human being like that. How could focus long enough to get tasks done at work for example?
I'm a man and I'm not some sex crazed nut case unaccountable for my actions. While you can't always control your emotions, especially strong ones, your emotions don't force to act on them. I suggest looking up ACT, Acceptance and Commitment Theory.
Still I make no apologize for my sexuality, or for going to massage parlours or Stripclubs or whatever, as it is fully congruant with my personal values, which include sexual adventuring and exploration. My body, my choice, same goes for sex workers and they're bodies and they choices.
vinod1
08-20-2015, 05:13 AM
No, i don't agree with this thing completely because i never observe this thing of information ever. So thanks to discuss...
SweetJulia
08-31-2015, 03:29 PM
It's so funny how only guys think so. Not sure if it's to make themselves feel better about a stripper who wouldn't blow them. Not sure how hurt is defined, but there's plenty of strippers, cam girls, etc. That do just fine and don't run to apply at an escort service every time there's a slow night.
kirakonstantin
09-04-2015, 03:39 AM
Strip clubs vs. Escorts has been done to death. I'm of the opinion that I'd rather have prostitution legalized, but that it likely won't have an impact on the number of dick shits trying to assault me or con me into OTC sex.
I personally know of dancers who are spreading HIV. That shit is real, it's no fucking joke and reason #865 why SC extras are a bad idea.
As far as girls who talk and talk and talk, at my club, most of them leave owing money. There are a few customers who pay well for certain girls to sit and drink with them. A few girls will talk to their regulars for a long time, but the $$ from dances make it worthwhile. Most average customers don't even stage tip because plenty of bitches will sit and talk for free, so they don't have to pay for anything. And they wonder why I sit by myself, unless I have a customer with money on the line. Amateurs.
threlayer
09-10-2015, 04:12 PM
^ That, and girls that talk to guys for FREE for half an hour.
One of my dressing room buddies (a 14 year veteran) was telling me how several years ago in Dallas, a new girl was talking to customers for more than 3 songs, not selling them, and tying them up from being approached by other girls. She didn't listen to their advice, so the other dancers got sick of it and literally hauled her off the stage by her hair, and beat the shit out of her. She started adhering to the 3 song rule after that.
There are your crackheads and aggressive nutcases right there. Violence solved this or just made her look for retribution, maybe for years?
Tourdefranzia
09-13-2015, 12:03 PM
I think to 99% of guys sex is most important plain and simple. If it were legal almost every guy would buy it and abandon the strip clubs. The only reason guys go to strip clubs instead of escorts is they don't want to get arrested. So they go with a legal alternative.
You're forgetting one very important part of male psychology. Buying extras at a strip club seems like it would be identical to hiring a prostitute to do the same exact thing in a motel room, but the difference is that the strip club patron can kid himself that he's "never paid for it."
Some men just have a problem with outsourcing their sexual needs. Strip clubs allow them to lie to themselves that the girl was only doing it because she was into him.
rickdugan
09-13-2015, 12:47 PM
You're forgetting one very important part of male psychology. Buying extras at a strip club seems like it would be identical to hiring a prostitute to do the same exact thing in a motel room, but the difference is that the strip club patron can kid himself that he's "never paid for it."
Some men just have a problem with outsourcing their sexual needs. Strip clubs allow them to lie to themselves that the girl was only doing it because she was into him.
I agree. I'll only add that, IMHO, the level of delusion varies from guy to guy. Some may fully delude themselves into thinking that they aren't paying for it because she is a stripper. But there is a milder form of the same type of delusion that makes it ok to pay for it so long as they are still somehow special and believe that she wouldn't do it with just anyone.
I'll also say that delusion is a two way street. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard some version of "I don't normally do this" from a lady that I've taken OTC and, for some, it seemed to be very important that I acknowledged it and didn't view them as [insert the derogatory here]. I've even heard a couple of former OTC favorites refer to other girls as whores for some of the things that they do, even as they were preparing to leave with me. So the same reality that makes some guys feel ok about paying dancers for sex OTC also allows some dancers to feel ok about saying yes and providing sex for money.
The hard truth is that p4p has been a peripheral reality of this industry for the 18+ years that I've been visiting clubs and, from all reports I hear, probably as long as there have been strip clubs. When you combine guys feeling enough lust to pay girls to get nude and provide LDs and hot young girls willing to take their clothes off and give LDs for that money, there will inevitably be those on both sides of the tip rail willing to take it further. It was happening when I was clubbing in my 20s and will undoubtedly still be happening when I am in my 60s and beyond. All that anyone who resents it can really do is work around it.
KALIN
09-14-2015, 07:10 AM
Why would escorts hurt the stripping business? I'm an an escort and an a cam girl and clients hire escorts because they want a full service encounter ---- something, traditionally, that strippers don't offer. It's like comparing apples and oranges. If customers at a strip club want "extras", they should just go hire an escort - not pester strippers for something that they probably don't offer.
Aniela
09-14-2015, 12:39 PM
Why would escorts hurt the stripping business? I'm an an escort and an a cam girl and clients hire escorts because they want a full service encounter ---- something, traditionally, that strippers don't offer. It's like comparing apples and oranges. If customers at a strip club want "extras", they should just go hire an escort - not pester strippers for something that they probably don't offer.
Escorts -- & by that I mean true escorts who are grownup enough to stay the F out of the clubs, typically don't hurt our business. It's the dumbass, cheap desperate bitches who do hook in the clubs bc they are either in denial (so what if I S&F if the custie's hot, that don't make ME a ho :snooty: ) or too cowardly (OMG I can't possibly risk getting raped/maimed/busted by hooking on the street or sm random hotel! Let me do it in a club w/ bouncers!) to cross fully into indy or agency-backed escorting.
It's also the spineless PoS customers who harbour similar delusions abt 'Oh, well she is just a stripper, & [insert favours] just came w/ the price of the dance bc she TOTALLY fkng digs me, so it's not like I actually paid for sex' or who likewise don't have the balls to risk the possible consequences of doing smtg illegal, so they figure the club is safer.
Then you have the true predatory types who figure that bc SOME strippers will S&F, ALL strippers will, & they come in w/ the determination to receive such favours whether their stripper of choice rolls that way or not. See the many threads on this site abt sexual assault by customers ITC.
These type of pretend stripper, & these type of customer, ARE the ones that hurt real strippers' $$$ & bring a significant increase of legal, safety & health risks to our workplace.