View Full Version : Where does the money and time go?
Arken15
07-30-2015, 03:54 AM
Yeah, the household duties thing is rough. Part of it is different standards, and tolerances and he is WAY better than he used to be. Plus, when I started making more money I got a house cleaner to come 1x a month. Huge. He does deal with the toilet plunging when my son puts way too much TP in though, so that's worth a few dishwasher empties. Oddly enough, after our talk 2 nights ago, where we didn't talk about chores at all, he came home and put the pile of dishes in the sink I haven't touched in the dishwasher and took out the recycling (literally never happens). Coincidence? I think not. I helped him carry out the recycling but noticed I felt guilty not helping him in the kitchen. ?!?! It said way more about me than him.
My Dad lost his job when I was in high school and was unemployed for more than a year -- I vowed then and there that my goal will always be to make enough money to support myself. Ladies, guys may be the most forward thinking pro-feminist equal rights but at their core they are emasculated if you make more than they do.
Even I shouldn't indulge too much speculation, and as much as I'm trying to portray things honestly I'm sure I am still being biased. He's ultimately a person who wants to be loved unconditionally, as we all are. I've figured out that my own situation is much more in control than I let myself think, so that alone gives me a way out, even if we stay together.
Thanks SW community for all the kind words and help!
Arken15
07-30-2015, 04:46 AM
Also, I can honestly say it's never occurred to me to sniff his balls when he came home ;). Sophia starina's response was priceless!
gingersnap
07-30-2015, 05:26 AM
^^If you are worried he would see this thread (very unlikely) you can ask for it to be moved.
slowpoke
07-30-2015, 05:33 AM
Also, I can honestly say it's never occurred to me to sniff his balls when he came home ;). Sophia starina's response was priceless!
Maybe if you did . . .
rickdugan
07-30-2015, 06:29 AM
I'm always game for another Mr. Dugan. The affair happened well before the kids did, and I totally commend him for staying. Just the act of it says a lot and was very brave of him so I understand that he'd be bruised about it even after all this time. The club frequency is 1-2x a month, sorry, but that's a lot of money even if we can still have a home and food. He goes alone. I did say earlier if he kept it to 3-4K and let me know where he was between 2-7 then I'd be a lot cooler with it. He has on occasion admitted he needed help and can't seem to stop. When our kids are older I can't have him rolling in at 7am on a Thursday. Yes, he's a great Dad. Good husband? Complicated question. I do way too much of the housekeeping/boring kid crap. Sounds pretty but it can be soul sucking. Good provider? I make more than twice his salary, so I'd say we're both good providers.
Thanks Arken - those additional details fill in a lot of missing pieces. Truth be told though, I don't commend him for staying. If you two had problems all that time ago, then you probably should have dealt with them before kid #1.
But now here you are, with children who would most likely be devastated if their family broke apart. I honestly believe that they deserve more consideration than either of you in what happens next. IMHO we lose our right to stay stuck in our own heads when we have children. Marriage with children is not easy in the best of circumstances and rarely are conditions ideal in any home. If he's not beating you, blowing the bulk of the family's income on drugs/strippers/etc, or doing something else truly outrageous, then IMHO you may want to carefully consider what the right next steps are for the babies whose long term emotional health would likely be irrevocably damaged if their formerly intact home was split apart.
Now with all that said, I am not laying all of this at your feet. He needs to man up and cut the shit. Being out all night until 7 or 8 in the morning, by himself, is utterly unacceptable. I'm a far worse dog than he will likely ever be and even I don't pull shit like that when I am not traveling for work. IMHO he doesn't get to keep milking that affair stuff for the rest of his life. He needs to put on his man pants and get over it and this "needs help" stuff is bologna. IMHO you need to set time (say 2?) and spending limits ($500 once a month?) that he needs to abide by or shit will hit the fan. I also do not believe that expecting him to help around the house, especially when you earn double what he does, is unrealistic.
Now also understand that the affair and earning disparity are both probably making him feel emasculated, which no doubt is feeding into this crap as well. But none of that earns him a pass either and I'm not sure what you can do to change that, but it is something to consider.
And if he cannot handle whatever you ask of him and leaves, then at least you tried.
In any event, good luck!
Arken15
07-30-2015, 09:18 AM
That makes a lot of sense, and I think rickdugan you hit the crux of ultimately where I am. The worst case scenario would be that we'd get 50/50 physical custody, with the kids shuttling back and forth every week (I really can't imagine him ever being able to make a case against me to have them any more than that). If I think about the cumulative years of the kids' lives that I'd miss until they are out of the house, it's heartbreaking and unacceptable to me. Even if I got a better custody arrangement, like the standard "he gets 2-3 weekends a month and a day during the week", which I could live with, the thought of him missing the kids that much, and the kids missing him that much is also heartbreaking. He loves them more than anything else in the world, as do I. I'm not ready to quit on it, but at the same time I don't want my kids witnessing this pattern or my participation of it so I have that in mind (I hear what audritwo is saying, and many of my friends that came from divorced but good co-parenting parents have said the same). I do believe that even if the divorce were messy, he too has the kids as his first priority and wouldn't eff with their heads in any first-degree manner (we'll all screw up our kids in one way or another...).
Thanks for the tip about getting this thread off of here gingersnap, I'll consider it. He's pretty good at the internet, and I know he'd be angry if he saw this, but I think my rationale for doing it is something I stand by.
Also, I contacted the bank a while ago to see if I could lower the limits -- I can't without his permission since it's a joint account. I'd conjecture he withdraws before and after midnight to get two days in there.
He's going out tonight and it will be interesting to see what happens, but if it's what I expect, I think I will be much more capable of handling it in a productive way.
-CP
gameover
07-30-2015, 05:11 PM
If he's spending $700 a pop and doesn't want you to come along, that would cause me some concern, especially given how late he stays out. That's enough cash that he could spend time at the club, and hook up with a dancer when she gets off work. These days there are dancers in even upscale clubs, who will meet outside for sex for less than you might think. Especially if they have rent or bills to pay. Coming home at 7am really makes me think there are outside the club activities going on.
Bacon
07-30-2015, 10:01 PM
wow, that's a lot of $ for a family man..that should be going to the kid's college fund.
That's what would piss me off the most, even if he's not getting extras at the club. Like that $$ is for your family, or an occasional night of fun with your buddies for a special reason.
unbeleavable
07-31-2015, 07:59 PM
Is this Chilipalmer's wife?
-CP
wednesday86
07-31-2015, 09:13 PM
It's completely possible to spend $700 just on clean dances/VIP rooms. 1 hour at my club is $400 for a champagne room or $300/hour for a VIP, and I don't do extras. I've gotten that much from one customer before...The biggest red flags are how late he's coming in...and texting the girls.....sounds like there's some after club activities going on.
TiffTiff
07-31-2015, 11:40 PM
Easy to spend $700. One song dance at my club is $25 plus tip make it $35. 2 dances each with 5 girls is $350. Plus all the ones he's giving out, plus $8 r more a drink. What worries me is why isn't he coming home til 7am???Clubs close at 2 am, 4am at the latest.
Arken15
08-01-2015, 05:39 AM
In my town, there is a strict 2am close down. I've been to the occasional bar where they bolt up the door and do after hours, though I imagine that they are probably more careful about the clubs since they are being more carefully watched by the cops, so why would the owners risk it? Anyway? I've asked him that directly and gotten no answer.
I believe him that he's not getting extras, and he just isn't spending enough to be going to a hotel or paying for anything substantial OTC. My best guess is that after 2 am he is blowing lines somewhere else. I have no idea where or with whom (he told me once he went to a guy he knows from the club's house, another regular I'd guess).
Setting the boundaries isn't a problem: he needs some sort of outside help, and given his past behavior, I have zero faith that he can cut his frequency down to an acceptable level for me. I'm uncomfortable with him being a regular, essentially. What I am struggling with are the consequences for breaking those boundaries, that *I* myself can control that don't involve packing up the kids and taking them from their own home. He isn't physically abusive and is great to them, and they would suffer without him. I was thinking about an in-home emotional separation where I essentially act as if I were a single Mom. Not be rude or mean or anything, but take over the rest of the kid responsibilities, plan and do family outings separately, not invite him to or have no expectation that he attend my extended family events. Something about that seems weird though. I need to talk to him about it but we haven't had any chance alone without the kids when I haven't been sleeping :)
One perspective I haven't thought of, nor offered him, is how would he feel if our daughter's husband was doing this? What would he want for her? What should she do if the guy can't stop?
amberlly
08-01-2015, 06:29 AM
I am going to offer an alternate solution - addressing it head on doesn't appear to be working. I agree with you that something needs to change.
Could you forgive both of you for any past mistakes and try and be loving and kind. The way ideally you would like things to be. Fake till you make it approach. Arrange a compulsory date night and hire a babysitter. Then have fun! Talk about non threatening topics. Set boundaries from a peaceful place. This your family and these are the rules you need to make it work. If he chooses to break them then he can come home to dirty clothes, no missed calls and life continuing without him.
I appreciate the drugs/strip club is still a big issue. But you love your husband and kids so maybe this approach could help him see that you are both on the same page. And from there be more open to finding a solution.
Arken15
08-01-2015, 06:41 AM
It's a great suggestion, and my friend said something similar -- you love family outings together so why should you have to give that up? They work for everyone! And exactly, those are the steps along the right path, even should we split up down the road.
So, we are planning a fun day tomorrow. I've been a bit aloof since he went out again 2 nights ago (only until 3:30 am), but I feel OK today and can fake the rest. I do think I have to say something about it not being able to turn a blind eye to it, but feel able to do it from a loving place without venom.
Thank you :)
tookewl
08-01-2015, 06:59 AM
It sounds as if you were childless you'd have divorced him a long time ago, but that you're staying for the children. While I believe that's noble, it's not always the best thing for either you or them. There seems to be two things going on; cheating/lying and being irresponsible. While they typically go together they're not the same. Cheating/lying by your own admission he's already doing at the very least on an emotional level and questionably on a physical. And irresponsible for the spending and late night/early morning returns. If he truly has a history of both with an unwillingess to change or at least admit it, you may want to reconsider.
Whatever happens I hope you the best.
Vyanka
08-01-2015, 07:27 AM
You believe someone who stays quiet after you question him? Don't be too naive. There's a lack of communication. Plus, going to some guy's house to do blow after hours sounds like horse shit too. Riiiiiiight.....But then again, cokeheads are some strange and shady folks usually. He should consider quitting the coke habit for his children too.
He's not growing up, being a dirty stay out....
Arken15
08-01-2015, 09:08 AM
I strayed before the more frequent SC attendance, and well before kids. It was an Internet emotional affair with a fat man that lived with his parents. I was clearly off the rails, and handled the aftermath poorly. It was all my fault, there were so many better ways to deal with my problems back then.
He would say I've cheated again, because I would text/IM with guys I knew IRL but nobody I was in love with or close to screwing, Never any sex stuff, or love stuff, I'm sure more innocuous than his conversations at the SC but he considered it a "slippery slope". I didn't think so, but whatever. Honestly it's part fear on his part and part projection.
We talked this morning -- I expressed my concern for him, said it was a compulsion not just "fun", I was worried something would happened, and am concerned for the effects on me. I said I think he needs help, and to consider if this were happening to his daughter. He was calm, and we have a nice family day planned tomorrow so we shall see.
I know that at this point, there is a good chance of divorce eventually. I'll change what I can and will see if it goes anywhere good, but I won't keep my hopes up.
I've been thinking a lot about the way past -- I think this happened less because I was out partying until all hours of the night WITH him. It was fun, we had a blast together. Obviously I had to tone that down when the kids came, but maybe that's why I never noticed before.
jasmine22
08-01-2015, 02:00 PM
He should be spending that $700 on you, not other women. He should be spending that time at home with you. What do you get out of him doing this to you? You make more money than him...did I read that right?? i hope a prenup was involved. I lived with a man who was financially irresponsible, and I couldn't imagine doing that with kids. You can do better I'm sure. I wish you the best of luck.
gingersnap
08-01-2015, 08:04 PM
Guys do get REALLY horny when they are on coke? I would doubt hes hanging out with a guy doing it.
NakedNicole
08-02-2015, 01:47 AM
If it will put your mind at ease, you should possibly consider asking a male friend/co worker, etc that your husband doesn't know, to spy on him in the club and see where he spends his money and where he goes afterwards.
I get solicited for extras like sex very often by married men. It's really insane the lack of integrity these guys have. One minute they will be talking about how their wife is at home with their new born child and the next they are trying to pay me for sex in the champagne room. The guy I am using in my example has also asked to take me on shopping sprees. These are all professional guys with their own businesses who seem like "family man" good types to everyone else. But once they get in the club their true desires that they hide from everyone else finally come out. I asked the guy from my example "so you would be cool with it if your wife was out til 4am fucking random guys while you stayed home alone with the baby?" He laughed and said "oh she would never do that." It sickens me that someone who is married to a great person, who just gave you a child, would have no problem disrespecting that person.
Japanese proverb - the Japanese say you have 3 faces, the first you show the world. The second you show close family and friends and the third face, you never show anyone. It is the truest reflection of who you are.
amberlly
08-02-2015, 02:25 AM
Delete
Arken15
08-02-2015, 05:05 AM
I really like that Japanese proverb a lot.
No prenup, I was in school when we got married and not making much. A few years later I got a job making double that and slowly climbed up but his family gave us money for out down payment. Technically it's half mine since I didn't have to sign a prenup, but I don't think I want his money and could at the least use it as a bargaining chip against paying alimony. It makes me physically ill that I might have to pay him alimony, and need to consult with an attorney in my state to get a realistic idea of how this could go down.
My biggest fear is that his family is wealthier than mine and will provide him with the best lawyers. They love me and would never want him to divorce but he is their son and they will support him. I don't want to give up the kids 50% of the time, but again, I need to talk to an attorney.
He was was doing this while I was pregnant, home with a newborn, and for the years where I was taking care of my dying Mom, and justified it with my affair years and years ago. I stayed while my Mom was sick because I honestly needed to focus on her and raising my kids and keeping my job. I just couldn't throw a messy divorce in there. She passed away 8 mos ago so here I am finally dealing with my messy marriage.
If we divorce, despite being out of a lot of money and having to move out of our fun but pricey town, I'll be OK. I have a great network of family and friends and have a beautiful life independent of him. I am totally a pathetic enabler who sticks her head in the sand, but I don't have that element of it where the only friend I have is my husband. I think for me, it's been hard to choose it because I am afraid of the pain it will cause, and so stick with the pain I know (and it's not always pain, sometimes it's great), but I am letting myself think about how OK I'd be and that's giving me more confidence. We've been together since out of high school so it's the only thing I really know. I don't recommend that :)
Ive always wondered if the married guys are dirtier dogs than the unmarried.
Arken15
08-02-2015, 05:16 AM
AND, I lost the baby weight quickly and am in great shape. While I am sure I do not look as fine as most of you ladies, he is DAMN lucky. I wouldn't mind a butt lift though 😝
I keep trying to find a thread on the quiet guy/nerd hustle, because that's what he's falling for. I'd be curious to see if I could try some of that on him and see what happens. Any tips?
Arken15
08-02-2015, 05:23 AM
Is that an OK question to ask here actually? And if so should I start a new thread?
I've thought about hiring a PI, but that is drawing a line for war, a male friend is an interesting idea -- he knows them all! There is one mutual friend that went with him once, and I could ask him but I don't want to make him rat out his friend.
rickdugan
08-02-2015, 05:39 AM
While you and your husband both wallow in self pity and use it to justify your various bad behaviors, I wonder who's looking out for the emotional well being of your children?
Aniela
08-02-2015, 05:45 AM
I've thought about hiring a PI, but that is drawing a line for war, a male friend is an interesting idea -- he knows them all! There is one mutual friend that went with him once, and I could ask him but I don't want to make him rat out his friend.
Don't see why a PI is a declaration of war but a mutual friend isn't, if your purpose is the same. That's beside the point tho.
If 'not ratting out' your husband is more important to this 'mutual friend' of yours, he is no friend to you & IMO just as much a party to the disrespect & deceit your husband is displaying, bc he is happily allowing it to continue. You're this guy's WIFE & The mother of his kids for Chrissakes. Stop putting yourself on the back burner to others' feelings while they continue to hurt you.
It seems that in your husband's mind, EVERYTHING is all abt how YOU cheated, YOU did this & YOU did that. He's been holding that over your head for ages. How long b4 he decides that he's punished you enough … when you're too emotionally/mentally run-down to stick up for yourself, too worn out to fight for your marriage or just done w/ having to keep bending over backwards for him over a mistake you made yrs ago? Will he then leave when he doesn't have that emotional control over you anymore?
If he found your affair 'that damaging' & wasn't willing to do the work necessary to forgive you, then he should have said Fk It & cut you loose right there. This far after the fact, I doubt it's really abt that anymore. It's just what he pulls out of his ass to justify his own selfishness & keep you grovelling. I think it's gotten to be more abt his own ego than just abt your mistake.
Arken15
08-02-2015, 06:57 AM
Fair enough on many points -- particularly yours rickdugan, we're both very dedicated to the kids, but that's not to say that we are lying to ourselves or that the situation won't get worse. I think that for the first time I am seeing how my own self pity is pathetic, and not on him but ME for tolerating it. So, while that doesn't make me feel great about myself I am so happy that finally, I have a serious change in perspective. I feel like I have the confidence to act on it as well. I'm way ahead of where I was and things are much more clear. You guys have been great, and Ive been slowly changing to get to this point.
I'm going to ask the mutual friend, he can always say he isn't comfortable and then I'll find another way.
rickdugan
08-02-2015, 10:22 AM
Idk Arken. You are ready to plunge your children into emotional and financial instability all because your husband goes out once a month (or so) and makes you feel bad about yourself with his endless guilt trip. I guess I don't find that narrative quite as uplifting as you do. ;)
IMHO being "dedicated" to your children means a lot more than catering to them. It means maintaining an environment best for their healthy development and emotional well being, which often requires real perseverance and personal sacrifice. Honestly, given what I have read here in this thread, I suspect that neither of you are truly capable of that. After all, you really didn't believe that things in other homes are perfect, did you? Many others struggle with all sorts of issues. The difference is that strong and committed parents find ways to persevere and provide their children with a stable and supportive environment. There is a reason why there is not a single broken home in my neighborhood and only a few in the private school that my kids attend and I can assure you that it is not because things are perfect in all of those homes.
But hey, maybe there is an upside. Once the divorce process begins, you'll be free to re-live your lost youth and have fun with those guys you've been texting (assuming you haven't done more already) and he'll be free to go over the edge and blow as much money and time as he can on strippers. Boo-ya, right? :) And if your kids end up emotionally insecure from losing their intact family unit, living in a crappier area, going to a poorer school system and having less resources available to them, that's just the price they'll have to pay for your emotional fulfillment. But I'm sure that you'll both be wonderful "co-parents" through all of that. :thumbsup:
And on that note, I am punching out of this thread, lol.
carmen_b
08-02-2015, 10:39 AM
Have you been in couples counseling already ?
Arken15
08-02-2015, 12:58 PM
I never said I would definitely divorce him, but sorry, if he can't get his act together I'd rather not have my daughter watch it all go down and repeat the pattern. I also know plenty of people from homes where parents have divorced and they turned out just fine.I'd never sacrifice my kids' education in any situation though, it's a suburbs vs. city choice. Thanks!
Arken15
08-02-2015, 01:01 PM
Mr. Dugan, bless your heart though -- your tone is precious. I feel for your wife.
Likethis
08-02-2015, 01:10 PM
Do what you feel is best OP.
Sometimes people work things out and sometimes (a lot of times actually) the best option is to divorce.
Kids want their parents to be happy, happy parents can give their kids love and make them feel safe, and not only that but (just like you mention) if children grow up seeing their parents shitty, loveless, relationship that could be the low standard they set for themselves in their own future relationships.
lynn2009
08-02-2015, 01:17 PM
Do what you feel is best OP.
Sometimes people work things out and sometimes (a lot of times actually) the best option is to divorce.
Kids want their parents to be happy, happy parents can give their kids love and make them feel safe, and not only that but (just like you mention) if children grow up seeing their parents shitty, loveless, relationship that could be the low standard they set for themselves in their own future relationships.
I agree OP, do what you think is best. If you're going to continue to raise kids w/ your husband he needs to be respectful. As far as I can tell you versus your husband seem to be the only one really considering your family's future. You carried child(ren?) for this guy, he's holding an affair from years and years ago over your head and honestly I don't think 700 is low enough to count out extras at all. All this while you make so much more and do most of the work at home?! No idea how'd you have time for your own affair, lmao. Dude needs to step up or get lost.
Arken15
08-02-2015, 01:32 PM
Yep, I am acting like my Mom did, so I know patterns repeat from generation to generation. It's pretty incredible, and my responsibility to break the cycle in one way or another.
My folks stayed together but my Mom might have been better off single, maybe my Dad too. I asked her once why she didn't divorce my Dad and when she broke down the financial implications I saw where she was coming from.
Leather_Jacket
08-02-2015, 01:40 PM
Long answer short, yes he could very easily spend that kind of money on clean stripper entertainment... he could also easily spend it on not so clean entertainment. But with him getting home so late/early I would be curious as to where he's spending that time. Strip clubs typically close around 2 to 4am (however there are some clubs that stay open till 6am or clubs that are open 24hrs). If I were you I would find out what clubs he frequents (chances are he has a favorite or two) and how late they are open. Seems to me he might be spending time with someone of the non-stripper/non-escort variety. It would be far easier spending that time and money wining and dining with someone, crashing at their place, then leaving in the early morning. If that's the case then he might be feeling guilty not telling you the whole truth so he may be trying to make up for his guilty conscience by admitting to you that he is in fact with another woman, but leaves out the fact that she's not a sex worker with no emotions towards him. This is all just speculation but these would be the kind of things I would wonder about if I were in your situation.
NoRegrets
08-02-2015, 02:04 PM
Mr. Dugan, bless your heart though -- your tone is precious. I feel for your wife.
Rick has said that he's married and that he visits strip clubs. Perhaps your situation hit's very close to home with him. That's not a knock against him. It just explains why his opinion is to keep the family together. Often we project our own situations to the OP.
I don't envy you the tough decisions you have to make. I've known couples that divorce and put their children first. It worked out better for both of them and their kids. I've also seen people fight for years over the smallest items during a divorce and alienate their kids.
Just be sure that you're communicating clearly with your husband that his behavior (both holding your past indiscretion over your head and the strip clubs) could end your marriage. Us guys can be very thick headed, hints often don't work.
Arken15
08-02-2015, 02:42 PM
Thank you, the tone mirrored a lot of what I hear at home so I couldn't help a snark.
His point that a decision to break the family up should not be taken lightly is taken, though. There is a lot more I can do I terms of communication, like you suggested, before I can throw in the towel knowing that I've truly exhausted all my options. The best way out is I set limits, he changes his behavior and all is better. If that can't happen then I make no promises.
The 2-7am question is the big one that I am very interested to answer. I know which club he goes to (the ATM receipts point to it clearly), and it closes at 2, so he's clearly doing something shady. If he weren't, he wouldn't protect it in silence. I'll let you guys know if I can figure it out.
Arken15
08-02-2015, 02:43 PM
And excellent point about the post 2am civilian pussy.
rickdugan
08-02-2015, 04:52 PM
Thank you, the tone mirrored a lot of what I hear at home so I couldn't help a snark.
Interesting Arken. I would be fascinated to know which of my comments are similar to what you hear at home. :)
But I will say that my tonal quality at home is nothing like my posts here. Of course, my wife doesn't view care of her children as "soul sucking." She also has a more realistic handle on what the impacts of divorce could be on our children. She is a wonderful mother who deserves my utmost respect. There are no whiny men in my household and certainly no guilt trips. ;)
Now that is not to say that we don't have our struggles and I am sure we have given each other ample excuses to initiate divorce proceedings. Our first priority just happens to be getting our kids over the goal line and into the world on stable footing. That is what good parents do.
Arken15
08-02-2015, 05:34 PM
Hm. I'm just not one of those women that coos over every crap-filled diaper I have to change, or jizzes over folding the 4th load of laundry at 1am. I still love reading them books, cuddling them back to sleep after a nightmare, and waxing philosophical on what it means to die. Is it worth it? Yes. Would I like to do less of it sometimes? Yes. Shoot me.
if you'd like me to dissect out what tonal quality reminds me of home, I'm happy to, but if you are different with your wife then you probably can figure it out.
I mean no harm dude, I legitimately appreciated your perspective, and am glad that a guy weighed in on this.
Arken15
08-03-2015, 12:19 AM
I don't expect a vow of poverty either, nor would I want to take one myself! Thanks for that information though, I think that he is spending about the same percentage as you, and your wife is cool with that? (I'm not snarking, I'm totally curious).
I've said I was comfortable with 4K/yr, I would look the other way with those numbers honestly, minus the 2-7am mysterious absences.
amberlly
08-03-2015, 01:57 AM
The hustle secret is we are emotionally easy. We generally don't guilt trip, say what you want to hear and avoid sensitive topics.
You are the wife. You husband may visit strip clubs but he comes home to roost. He publicly committed to you. He lives with you and chose to raise children with YOU.
The paid entertainment is disposable. Always. That's part of the game.
Is there any point getting hung up on the particular number of annual spend? As long as its his money and doesn't affect the family. Tell him to take his one day a month and rent a hotel room that night. Then get a babysitter and do something fun that yourself that night too! He can stay out or not but you won't have to stress it and can have fun instead.
gingersnap
08-03-2015, 02:11 AM
I think it would be more helpful to say where this club is and the name of it. That way you can know at least some correct information at least about the club. Its also possible he is spending more than 700 on these nights. Most dont start off with getting money from the atm in the club, thats usually after they run out of the cash they bring or maybe going to the atm before like you mentioned. Being a dancer I wouldnt stay with a man who frequents strip clubs, its a turn off, and then him spending my money HELL NO. Do I think you should divorce him, no. But I would hire a PI, after I found out some things to find out what kind of man I was married too. If he was a family man who has a addiction to escorts, or sleeping with strippers, I would not stay. And the whole thing of what this is, or might be doing to your self esteem is not fair. Customers can be so draining because they always want more. Sucks you cant change the limit on the cards.
rickdugan
08-03-2015, 06:16 AM
Hm. I'm just not one of those women that coos over every crap-filled diaper I have to change, or jizzes over folding the 4th load of laundry at 1am. I still love reading them books, cuddling them back to sleep after a nightmare, and waxing philosophical on what it means to die. Is it worth it? Yes. Would I like to do less of it sometimes? Yes. Shoot me.
if you'd like me to dissect out what tonal quality reminds me of home, I'm happy to, but if you are different with your wife then you probably can figure it out.
I mean no harm dude, I legitimately appreciated your perspective, and am glad that a guy weighed in on this.
Fair enough Arken.
I think my tonal quality was a result of the seemingly casual way in which the effects of divorce on kids were viewed in this thread. I think the link below is a really good white paper on the topic and consistent with some of the things I have seen firsthand:
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage/divorce-and-infidelity/should-i-get-a-divorce/how-could-divorce-affect-my-kids
Now sometimes divorce is unavoidable. Abandonment does happen, as does domestic abuse and other horrible stuff. But IMHO and IME the damage to kids from divorce is very real and lasting, which to me makes it a nuclear option rather than one to be used as an easy escape route from a tough situation. Unfortunately and IMHO, nowadays all too many people seem use it as the latter.
But I also understand your frustration. Leaving you to bring in 2/3 of the household income and shoulder the work load on the home front is simply unacceptable. I'm sure that this other stuff is just icing on that whole shit cake. IMHO you need to start making it crystal clear to him that this stuff in unacceptable and that he needs to step up. I don't care what you've done, it's time for him to man up. If he throws that affair crap at you again, IMHO you should tell him that he needs to suck it up and get over it. It's time for him to act like a husband rather than a whiny sissy.
And if he decides to grow some balls, perhaps he can also reclaim a little of his masculine pride by improving himself and closing the earning gap, which would also ease some pressure on you. After all, it's not like his spare time is being eaten up by household duties. ;)
As far as your questions about how I manage SC activities in relation to my homefront, I doubt you would like my answers. Tbh, my wife has it better than you in some ways and worse in others, but it is not in her face the way it is with you. My character flaws are well chronicled on this site, but hopefully being less than a great father and at least a loving husband won't be among them. We shall see.
I sincerely wish you good luck as you work through all of this. :)
Flickdreams
08-03-2015, 06:39 AM
The hustle secret is we are emotionally easy. We generally don't guilt trip, say what you want to hear and avoid sensitive topics. .
THreadjack/ I'm going to meditate on this one and figure out how relevant it is for me- my first instince agrees; but on some level I feel resistance to the concept so its worth putting some time into. it's certainly a strong truth for time in the club for most customers, perhaps not all. Thanks for the inspiration.
gingersnap
08-03-2015, 09:03 AM
Arksn15, if you want to know more about how customers are, take a look at stripclub junkie the blue side located at the bottom of this forum.
audritwo
08-04-2015, 11:03 AM
But hey, maybe there is an upside. Once the divorce process begins, you'll be free to re-live your lost youth and have fun with those guys you've been texting (assuming you haven't done more already) and he'll be free to go over the edge and blow as much money and time as he can on strippers. Boo-ya, right? :) And if your kids end up emotionally insecure from losing their intact family unit, living in a crappier area, going to a poorer school system and having less resources available to them, that's just the price they'll have to pay for your emotional fulfillment. But I'm sure that you'll both be wonderful "co-parents" through all of that. :thumbsup:
Fuck, don't be a dick, Rick. Come on. WTF? Sometimes divorce can be the best thing for children. Do you want your kids to grow up thinking a dysfunctional resenting relationship is healthy? No. Sometimes when those children grow up they will sought after dysfunctional relationships, because it's normal to them. And I find it hard to believe there isn't a "broken home" in your neighborhood. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
There are ways for your children to cope with divorce, OP. There are a bunch of children's books that will help them better understand what's going on with mommy and daddy if you do decide to. http://www.best-childrens-books.com/childrens-books-about-divorce.html
Also therapy!
I recently purchased this book for my older brother who is going through one right now, and my sister-in-law picked up a copy too.
http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Apart-Separated-Divorced-Parents/dp/0425232123
Aurora14
08-04-2015, 12:01 PM
Sometimes divorce can be the best thing for children. Do you want your kids to grow up thinking a dysfunctional resenting relationship is healthy? No. Sometimes when those children grow up they will sought after dysfunctional relationships, because it's normal to them. And I find it hard to believe there isn't a "broken home" in your neighborhood. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
Now, I'm the first to admit it, I'm a messed up cookie. But I bet anything I'd be worse off if my parents stayed together. I used catch my dad beating the crap out of my mom when he thought us kids were sleeping. I can only imagine what kind of life I'd have if they stayed together and I thought THAT was normal.
While I understand that this is an emotional abuse and not physical, my point remains. Rick, the OP has repeatedly said that she wants things to work out between them. I know, you did say that she needs to assert herself and put her foot down about these activities. And I agree, my opinion is that she is a bit too passive with this situation, but how many years should she put up with shit "for the kids" when he doesn't even want to try and change? They are holding grudges and treating each other like crap over shit that happened YEARS ago. Who would want their kid to think that's normal and healthy?
rickdugan
08-04-2015, 12:11 PM
I'll admit that the tonal quality of that post was poor, which I tried to correct in later posts. So the dick comment was well deserved. :)
But let's be honest audritwo, divorce is almost always about the parents, not the kids. Rationalizations about being "good co-parents", the "kids will be happier if I am happier", "they will be just fine with some therapy", etc., are the things that parents tell themselves in order to feel better about pursuing their own wants and needs. Common sense alone should tell most parents that a divorce will be hard on their kids - I know my own kids would be devastated. If my kids need books and therapy to cope with a voluntary life changing action taken by me, then perhaps I should think carefully before doing that thing and have a very good reason for it if I do. Also, I do, based upon my own experiences, agree with the stuff posted in the link to the white paper in post 94.
And by broken home, I only meant split parents. You are absolutely right that I don't know everything that goes on in those homes. I do also agree that sometimes divorce can be better for the kids as well, especially in abusive/ violent homes or when egregious activities are going on. But tbh I did not read anything that makes me believe that in this case. By her own admission he is a good father and even a decent husband at times.
At the end of the day, it's her life and they are her kids, so she can do what she wants. If she wants to break up their family over a once a month strip club visit and a lingering guilt trip issue, then it's her call. But the notion that this has anything to do with helping the kids is just silly. This is about what she wants and what she can and cannot live with, pure and simple.
And on that note, I am truly out now. If there are any lingering disagreements, then I will just have to agree to disagree. :)
wednesday86
08-04-2015, 04:49 PM
OP it sounds like you do want to work things out...and i recommend the next time it comes up in conversation or he comes home late, you should just start crying hysterically. I mean cry like you are dying. Sometimes our husbands don't understand how much they're hurting us and need to see it. Crying has fixed 99% of the problems in my marriage and opened up the lines of communication for us so much. We even tried marriage counseling and it only made things worse...When I broke down and cried for an hour in his lap things got better REAL fast. Just sayin'