View Full Version : Where does the money and time go?
Arken15
08-05-2015, 02:33 AM
Wednesday, that's a really interesting idea and I've never thought of it that way. I'll see if I can do it -- I used to cry a lot in front of him, but I rarely do and when it happens it's typically because of my mother and not him. I can't even imagine it though, and that is almost scary. I do believe that feelings can come back though when there is some mutual admiration going on, but I feel like I have been building an ever-thickening protective layer. I'm planning a whole bunch of fun family things for this summer and winter so we have plenty of opportunities to do see if we can focus our attention on some good clean fun.
If we did divorce, it wouldn't ultimately be because of the 1x/mo club visits (it's more like 2x, most months), it would be the lying, verbal abuse and sanctimonious hypocrisy.
Thanks for the book recs audritwo!
Flickdreams
08-05-2015, 04:21 AM
^ SLAA, seriously, go to SLAA babe.
Arken15
08-05-2015, 06:50 AM
^ SLAA, seriously, go to SLAA babe.
^^I found one in my area!
Flickdreams
08-05-2015, 07:10 AM
6 meetings as soon after one another as possible (best would be 6 in under 6 days).
audritwo
08-05-2015, 08:40 AM
Also, I do, based upon my own experiences, agree with the stuff posted in the link to the white paper in post 94.
You know Focus on the Family is a known hate group that spends a lot of time and money promoting Anti-Gay. Like conversion, and how gay parents are more harmful to children the straight parents. (studies have proved that wrong). Honestly I wouldn't use a hate group as a source to back up your argument. It really discredits anything they say to me. I cannot take them seriously. And all that article shows me is that they are fear mongering. They are of course a Christian group, and we all know what the bible says about divorce.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/focus-family
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/organizations/focus-family
From what I read, it seems like they cherry picked from their sources. (I also read all of their sources too) They didn't even mention any of the benefits divorce for children. Because there are some. Most of these studies are on divorced parents, but never what if they stayed together to see the outcome of the child. It's pretty bias.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/04/recognizing-when-kids-benefit-from-their-parents-divorce/284589/
http://www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Wikizine-Parenting/Shared-Parenting/The-Positive-Effects-of-Divorce-on-Children.html
audritwo
08-05-2015, 09:23 AM
I want to also talk more about my experience with being a child from a divorced/split family.
My parents divorced when I was 5. My brothers were 12, 8, and 3. When my parents were together there was constant fighting. They were always screaming and yelling at each other. It was straight up verbal abuse to each other. I can not remember a happy time with them. Most of it I remember hiding under my bed, crying. My older brothers were behind in school and failing because of the hardships at home and was unable to concentrate. From what my mother told me now, they did do marriage counseling and when she was seeing the effects of their relationship was having on their children, she thought it would be best if they split.
I remember the day my dad moved out. He took our dogs and I was more upset with that then the fact that he was leaving. Because I knew their would be less fighting. During this process my mother put my brothers and I into concealing because us kids have been through a lot. I remember telling the lady that I was excited to ride the incline to see my dad. Years later my dad moved out of the city for work. He was about 45 minutes out, and to not uproot us from school, we did every other weekend. My dad never remarried when we were kids. He dated here and there. But his focus were on us kids. Even when my mother remarried and had another child, he would let my youngest brother come out for the weekend with us. Because it wasn't fair to him. There was zero resentment and my parents have the best relationship they've ever had. They were better off friends then being married to each other. They worked out their problems, and realized it was best for US to not be together. Next month my parents are going onto a trip to celebrate their would be 30th wedding anniversary, with their significant others. Celebrate the beautiful family they created and was able to keep together even though they didn't work out.
They got a lot of shit from my catholic family about this. Told that divorce was going to ruin us kids.
We were all straight A students. And all of us graduated with honors and scholarships.
We are all tight knit still.
My family never really broke up. It just got better. I had two worlds that loved me and my brothers.
Also being the eldest and only girl in my family, I never experienced the Cinderella Effect.
People break up all the time. This stigma that divorce is bad for children is hogwash.
Even with my brothers divorce, him and his wife have agreed this is best for their children. I still talk to my sister-in-law because I've known her since I was teenager. And she is happy. My nieces are happy. My brother is happy. Yes it was rocky at first with them, but life got better. And it will get better from here on out.
Arken15
08-05-2015, 09:40 AM
Thanks audritwo, that is an excellent perspective, and mirrors what I have been told from multiple well-adjusted adult children of divorce.
Arken15
08-05-2015, 09:45 AM
And…oh God yeah, I took the point about not jumping into a hasty decision from rickdugan, but focus on the family is an odious institution:
http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/10-things-you-should-know-about-focus-on-the-family
Vyanka
08-05-2015, 09:50 AM
Don't take advice from someone who cheats behind their significant other's back.
Puhleeeease. As if there were any respect there.
rickdugan
08-05-2015, 10:30 AM
Don't take advice from someone who cheats behind their significant other's back.
Puhleeeease. As if there were any respect there.
Ok, now I promised not to argue the points I've already made and I won't, but...
Vyanka, neither you nor anyone else knows what's happening in the Dugan household. There are plenty of issues with our marriage, like any other. My wife has some significant limitations, which I won't detail here. Fortunately being a good mother is not one of those limitations. But I well understand the sacrifices necessary to keep a marriage together in order to raise healthy children. I have already tolerated things that I never imagined I could. I have also resigned myself, at the relatively young age of 45, to a lifetime of never again knowing romantic love. I will probably never even share a bed overnight with a woman again in this lifetime.
Yes I do play around with strippers, but it is poor consolation for what I have sacrificed to keep my family intact. And the reason I choose strippers over a GF/mistress, which would probably provide at least a little more consolation, is because I cannot risk blowback from my side activities spilling over into my house.
So I live by what I preach. I truly believe that what I am doing is best for their well being. They didn't ask to be brought into this world and I'm not going to chase my own happiness at their expense.
audritwo
08-05-2015, 11:31 AM
Rick, I will never judge you or argue with why you choose to stay in your marriage. That is your personal business, and I don't know any of the facts. I do think people are quick to get divorce without trying to work on their relationship. Divorce should always be the last result when everything else fails. Since I don't have children, I won't understand the sacrifices until I have my own.
But being from and knowing many well functioning people who grew up in a split households, we can back up that those studies are bullshit and mostly cherry picked to fit some narrative how families should be. If you and your wife are able to be happy, communicate, and have an agreement on boundaries. GREAT! That's what a marriage is and should be.
Flickdreams
08-06-2015, 01:49 AM
^ If everything is out in the opening and agreed upon between 2 adults then its respectful; if you have to hide something from your partner cause it will rock the proverbial, then its a relationship with an undercurrent of deceit.
Arken15
08-06-2015, 07:15 AM
Completely agreed. In many situations I don't think strict monogamy is really the right answer and when I ask around, I can only think of one of my longtime-married friends that has a satisfying relationship in the bedroom. Most range from unsatisfying to mediocre at best, and nearly everyone wishes for a little strange here and there. If it's a need that one partner has but the other can't provide, then that's a particular challenge, and personally if I were the "unable to provide" partner then I can imagine being OK with my spouse paying for it. I would be more uncomfortable with a girlfriend/mistress scenario, and would be humiliated if it were happening behind my back -- I'd also feel like I was robbed of having my own experiences -- sexual or otherwise.
Boring and unromantic truth: Marriage is just as much of a business relationship as a love pact because your finances, assets, and offspring are all tied up in it. I do sometimes wish that as a society we could evolve past monogamy as the one acceptable lifestyle -- it's rare that one other person can meet all of your needs, but hey, it's what most of us do. I know polyamorous relationships exist but I haven't seen one yet where both primary partners have the same level of on board-ness so it seems messy; however, my sample size is small. If everyone freed themselves from jealousy in just the bedroom, I wonder what would happen to our society.
Rickdugan, I'm impressed you've resigned yourself to a lifetime of this (and 45 is way young, especially in man-years) -- why not divorce once the kids were on their own and maintain a friendly parental relationship?
rickdugan
08-06-2015, 07:49 AM
Rickdugan, I'm impressed you've resigned yourself to a lifetime of this (and 45 is way young, especially in man-years) -- why not divorce once the kids were on their own and maintain a friendly parental relationship?
I think I've fed quite enough into your trolling already. ;)
Arken15
08-06-2015, 09:09 AM
Eh, sorry, my intention was not to troll, I was genuinely curious. I don't think I'd have the wherewithal to do the same (particularly once the kids were off), so I was also genuinely impressed. My parents did it though, so I get it to some degree.
gingersnap
08-06-2015, 09:39 AM
^^His comment too you doesnt even make sense too me. I havent seen anything you have said, that makes you a troll.
tuesdaymarie
08-06-2015, 09:39 AM
Arken, my mother is a very emotionally weak woman who has stayed with men who treated her like complete shit. I resent her for it, and it affected the woman I became. I was attracted to tumultuous relationships and abusive men till I figured out that I had a warped model of love. I'm not saying divorce should be taken lightly, but I believe you're correct in worrying whether this relationship model will hurt your children.
Rick, I am incredulous that you of all people are passing judgment when your post history on the topic of marriage and strippers has at times disgusted me to my core. I get that I don't know you or your marriage, but some of the shit you have said leaves me shocked that you think you're taking a more righteous path here.
Kitcatt
08-06-2015, 10:04 AM
Tossing in my two cents here. After my divorce no one handed me a medal for trying to tough it out as long as I did (12 yrs). They said "WTF is wrong with you? Why did you stay so long?"
If you find that all you're doing is bitching about and resenting your husband, get a divorce. You wont win a trophy for staying and your kids pick up on all pf that emotional baggage.
rickdugan
08-06-2015, 10:18 AM
Eh, sorry, my intention was not to troll, I was genuinely curious. I don't think I'd have the wherewithal to do the same (particularly once the kids were off), so I was also genuinely impressed. My parents did it though, so I get it to some degree.
I am not trying to impress anyone Arken. It is because it doesn't get to be about me anymore, that's why. When I had children, I lost the right to put my needs first. Whatever I live with (which frankly none of you know and I won't disclose on here) or give up in this life, they are the price I pay to avoid causing trauma to my children. And only the childless or truly self deluded parents do not intuitively understand what breaking up a home with two loving parents will do to their children. The countless studies on the matter - shit even ABC aired one a few years back - just confirm what parents who pay attention to their kids should already know, which is that breaking up an intact home is a dramatic life changing event that hurts kids. I am not going to reduce my kids' happiness, or their ability to focus on academics, or their living conditions, or their own ability to commit to long-term relationships, etc., etc., just because my romantic life would be more fulfilling with someone else.
And by the time my kids are out of the house, we will be well into our 60s and I am the sole breadwinner in the house. I am not going to abandon the mother of my children at that age, whatever the circumstances.
22lligm
08-06-2015, 10:23 AM
I also just wanted to add that parents staying married despite their problems does not necessarily mean you're going to raise 'healthy children'. If anything a married couple staying together despite all of their problems would have a greater chance of raising unhealthy children. Kids aren't stupid and know what their parents are up to. My sisters and I knew my dad was cheating on my mom and if they stayed married I think that would've just created emotional & psychological issues for us. They separated when I was 13 and we all continued to live normal healthy lives with two stable homes.
Sorry for the threadjack & I don't mean to argue I just couldnt believe I read that staying in a marriage with serious issues going on is best for the kids.
Arken15
08-06-2015, 11:04 AM
Idk, divorce doesn't necessarily mean financial abandonment. If your wife has given up her earning right to support your career and raise the kids (or is unable to earn for other reasons -- chronic disease, etc.), she is due a lifetime of alimony.
I think I have a warped model of love as well, and that's why I've stuck it out this long. I also felt very guilty about what I did early on in the marriage and took years of it as "punishment for my crimes", and I am very, very done with that thinking -- I've more than paid. Either he changes, or we co-parent from separate households, because exactly, I don't want my kids to repeat the pattern, they deserve better. He doesn't get to have a secret life, and the family life as he knows it.
Arken15
08-06-2015, 11:32 AM
I there isn't a one size fits all solution. I have read in the past that in low-conflict scenarios, sometimes it *can* be better to stick it out but it's hard to say when this is true.
I'd say in my situation, which I would absolutely call "low conflict", there is a risk either way. Kids are perceptive and all that but we very rarely fight in front of them, there is very little yelling and all that and there is actual love/laughter/enjoyment when things are going well. However, at some point though, they'll figure out that Mom Put Up With Dad's Stripper and Blow Problem and what does that say about both of us? My Dad never cheated on my Mom, but I knew when he went out with his buddies and came home at 3:30am. I'd be 7-8 years old, awake, worried that something bad happened to him, and staring out the window until he arrived. You can't hide a secret life from the kids forever, and what happens when they find out?
When he'd say nasty things about my Mom to her face as a kid I'd feel so badly for her but as an adult, I resented her for not standing up for herself. Eventually, she did, and she saw that I was repeating the pattern and felt pretty shitty about it. We were super close though and could talk very candidly about it, and she was a pretty spectacular example in every other way so it wasn't a wedge between us.
Edited to add: To clarify my first point where I say that I've read literature supporting intact marriages in low conflict scenarios -- this is true. HOWEVER, the more recent studies how demonstrated that divorce can be unfairly pointed to as the major cause of the negative effects. In many of those studies, they incorrectly attributed the adjustment problems of the children to the divorce itself, rather than something that stemmed from living in a challenged environment (pre-divorce).
audritwo
08-06-2015, 12:12 PM
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-divorce-bad-for-children/
voodoo_babyy
08-06-2015, 12:54 PM
If its any consolation, your husband is just an ATM with a penis to us. The chances of the "emotional affair" being reciprocated is 1 in a billion. We don't want the useless skin that surrounds the wallet.
please please tell me I can put this in my signature you wonderful goddess please lmfao
Arken15
08-06-2015, 01:25 PM
Great article audritwo!
Omegaphallic
08-07-2015, 09:02 AM
At 700$ dollars a visit, you'd be better off finiancially to just send him to a massage parlour, I mean yeah it ends with a handjob, but if he's just been finished off with a hj then he's unlikely to cheat via intercourse.
You'd save alot of money. VIP at the parlour I go to is 120$ ($40 for the room and $80 for the girl) for half an hour, that's alot less then $700.
Flickdreams
08-07-2015, 11:47 PM
Idk, divorce doesn't necessarily mean financial abandonment. If your wife has given up her earning right to support your career and raise the kids (or is unable to earn for other reasons -- chronic disease, etc.), she is due a lifetime of alimony.
I think I have a warped model of love as well, and that's why I've stuck it out this long. I also felt very guilty about what I did early on in the marriage and took years of it as "punishment for my crimes", and I am very, very done with that thinking -- I've more than paid. Either he changes, or we co-parent from separate households, because exactly, I don't want my kids to repeat the pattern, they deserve better. He doesn't get to have a secret life, and the family life as he knows it.
amen!
Djoser
08-24-2015, 03:22 AM
As a former dancer I would dump the love of my life if he did this shit. To spend $700 isn't just lap dances, etc. There is a ton of flirting (dancer) and sexual tension on the client side going on...
Lets not fool ourselves by pretending its not a highly sexual environment for the client...
Haven't read through the entire thread yet but had to stop & reply when I saw this. Should be engraved in stone.
OP, if your guy is spending that much & also not coming home until 7-8 in the AM, you have a very serious problem. Sounds to me like he's paid you back in spades for your past indiscretion.
Also, while a majority of the dancer members here might be in it only as a job, for money from lapdances & stage money, I've worked with a whole slew of dancers that would 'play for pay' inside or outside the club, and a whole slew of them that would simply play with the guys, especially if they were good-looking, had a smooth rap or reputation, and/or had drugs.
If your SO is as good looking & charming as you say, he's spending that kind of cash in stripclubs on a regular basis, and he's not showing up until 8 AM, you'd be crazy to believe he's just a naughty little boy scout having a little expensive fun.
miss.a.p1600
08-24-2015, 07:50 AM
Interesting thread and long as hell. I must be insane to have read it all.
First thing pops out is possible excessive drug and alcohol use. I personally think if he can cut out or at least cut back on this (maybe with some professional help) he wouldn't indulge as much in the strip club scene.
You should totally tighten his leash. For real though. Give him a strict 'party' budget and Do NOT let his ass stay out past midnight. Ever hear the saying ain't nothing open after 12 but some legs??? Yeah tighten your boundaries especially if what he's doing is making you feel uncomfortable. He's probably waiting for you to put your foot down and stop him.
I usually agree with rickdugan how married people and parents have to make sacrifices for their family. Can't be roaming the clubs all cotdamn night (and day). However I disagree about the split parenting and "broken" homes. I dont think divorce is something to take lightly as it affects everyone in your family. However if after careful consideration you go through with it, know that it's not a death sentence dooming your kids to a permanent f*cked up life.
For all you know you could divorce this dude and find the man that makes you truly Happy and your kids have a wonderful step father. For divorce to have a positive outcome on kids the parents have to be mature and not vengeful.
Sometimes the tension is eased when you're not under the same household. Maybe you could consider an alternative type marriage. Stay married but live in separate wings of the house or separate houses. Etc.
And like Wednesday86 mentioned CRY if you need to. Turn on the waterworks and pull at his heartstrings and let him know something has got to change cause you're not supporting him staying out all night without you, spending your marital money, and not knowing where he is.
I bet if you get dressed to kill, tell him you're heading out to the club, and not to wait up for you his a$$ would have a fit. Maybe he needs to see you enjoying your life not worrying yourself about his fetish for the nightlife for him to realize he is lucky to be with you vs. random dancers in the club.
pinups4
08-24-2015, 03:26 PM
My wife (and we have our own strange co-parent thing going on. Join the club) has put up w my photography/dancer/nighttime hobby for like 20 years.
we moved to PA, where clubs are open till 4 or later, and sometimes I closed em down. Sometimes we went to Dennys after.
That was too much, she put her foot down and we agreed at 2-something (drink till 2, dry out a little then head out) I'd pack it up and go home. Fair, no reason to fight over reasonable boundaries.
It wasn't an easy conversation (she let it boil till it was a fight, rather than bringing it up when it started to bug her) but it works for us.
No stress, no questions, no issues. Limited spending ("don't pay for it" is my rule anyway. and dont get any where you can't see in real light who/what you're doing) etc.
Maybe try that?
Flickdreams
08-24-2015, 10:27 PM
........Limited spending ("don't pay for it" is my rule anyway. and dont get any where you can't see in real light who/what you're doing) etc.
Maybe try that?
^ OH God, furniture with a voice.
pinups4
08-25-2015, 04:56 AM
^ OH God, furniture with a voice.
Not sure what the point of this statement is. Or how it helps the OP
but if your intent was to insult you missed the mark.
I'd also like to point out that my comments here and other posts have never been to insult anyone, because I don't see the value in that. I'm glad you had your little bit of fun, now can we get back to helping the OP?
My point is simply that she should not be afraid to set boundaries within her relationship or 4 the side activities of other partner, regardless of their relationship.
tempest666
08-25-2015, 04:59 AM
My wife (and we have our own strange co-parent thing going on. Join the club) has put up w my photography/dancer/nighttime hobby for like 20 years.
we moved to PA, where clubs are open till 4 or later, and sometimes I closed em down. Sometimes we went to Dennys after.
That was too much, she put her foot down and we agreed at 2-something (drink till 2, dry out a little then head out) I'd pack it up and go home. Fair, no reason to fight over reasonable boundaries.
It wasn't an easy conversation (she let it boil till it was a fight, rather than bringing it up when it started to bug her) but it works for us.
No stress, no questions, no issues. Limited spending ("don't pay for it" is my rule anyway. and dont get any where you can't see in real light who/what you're doing) etc.
Maybe try that?
Is this a western or northern PA thing? Most clubs here are open till 3 tops...
pinups4
08-25-2015, 05:04 AM
Northeastern. Threw me too. Byob.
with alcohol (non nude) till 2
BYOB till 4. alcohol "out of the building" after 2...maybe 230
I would only stay like once a quarter....mostly if someone offered a trip to Dennys lol
rickdugan
08-25-2015, 05:29 AM
Northeastern. Threw me too. Byob.
with alcohol (non nude) till 2
BYOB till 4. alcohol "out of the building" after 2...maybe 230
I would only stay like once a quarter....mostly if someone offered a trip to Dennys lol
Can't be MA, which is full nude with alcohol. Not NY either since the state doesn't allow byob clubs. Not RI either as there are only a handful of clubs and none byob. VT doesn't have any clubs any more and NH is down to 1 and it is not byob. Not CT either since there are only a couple of byob clubs in the state, they are full nude and are definitely closed by 2:00. Probably not northern NJ either since the byob clubs are usually full nude.
Perhaps southern NJ? I guess it also could be PA - there is a wild stretch of different practices in that state, depending upon the region.
Perhaps MD as well, though in my experience byob clubs in that state are also full nude (Players Club, Fuego).
I'm guessing somewhere in PA, though that is a pretty loose use of the term "northeast."
dpacrkk
08-25-2015, 06:04 AM
I'm guessing somewhere in PA, though that is a pretty loose use of the term "northeast."
He was answering tempest northeastern PA, not northeastern US.
pinups4
08-25-2015, 06:19 AM
sorry northeastern PA.
MA, most states hang till 2. we're crazy here. like vegas but crappier lol
lynn2009
08-25-2015, 07:25 AM
Off topic but Pennsylvania definitely is considered northeast USA.
Djoser
08-26-2015, 01:47 PM
I bet if you get dressed to kill, tell him you're heading out to the club, and not to wait up for you his a$$ would have a fit. Maybe he needs to see you enjoying your life not worrying yourself about his fetish for the nightlife for him to realize he is lucky to be with you vs. random dancers in the club.
Best advice of the whole thread. Especially if you tell him you are going to party with a bunch of male strippers ha ha
kabkaba
08-26-2015, 01:51 PM
A lot depends on your geographical location. Extras are more prevalent in some places. NYC gas very high prices for private /VIP but most other places are less expensive.
Note
No club stays open till 7. 2am is a hard deadline in most places I have been to.
You can get decent amount of fun for about $300 to $400 in most places.
Djoser
08-27-2015, 01:53 AM
A lot depends on your geographical location. Extras are more prevalent in some places. NYC gas very high prices for private /VIP but most other places are less expensive.
Note
No club stays open till 7. 2am is a hard deadline in most places I have been to.
You can get decent amount of fun for about $300 to $400 in most places.
Very true about 'Your mileage may vary [in private dance]'. In most south Florida clubs you can easily get laid or at least a very thorough blowjob for a lot less than 700. In Key West, the girl MIGHT get away with a quick handjob IF the bouncers aren't watching, or it's dayshift maybe (before bouncers get there), but in my club the girl would get fired instantly if she tried it & was caught. We get a lot of guys from Miami/Lauderdale who just instantly pull their dicks out the minute they sit down in VIP, that's how used to it/expectant they are.
I worked in a club in Daytona where guys could get blown by most of the girls for 20$ a song. 10$ a song during Two for One dances!!
However in some areas the clubs will stay open until 3 or 4 AM serving liquor, later than that if it's a juice bar or 'bottle club' with dancers. Though in most areas it's going to be 2 AM, yeah. Most likely they are going to breakfast or 'eating out' in a different style (sorry OP he he).
Furthermore it doesn't much matter how late the clubs stay open. Any SO of mine staying out until 8 AM partying with male strippers would be out on her ass--unless I was there and we were partying with female strippers as well lol--which has certainly happened come to think of it. But I've been in the industry for 15 years, it's a little different...
Djoser
08-27-2015, 09:15 PM
While you and your husband both wallow in self pity and use it to justify your various bad behaviors, I wonder who's looking out for the emotional well being of your children?
I just saw this.
Damn it, Rick...was it really necessary to be so sarcastic?
I think I've fed quite enough into your trolling already. ;)
And she doesn't strike me as being in the slightest bit trollish. I rather liked her & her attitude about her situation--as bad as it seemed to be. She was fully aware of her own part in the process leading to that degree of alienation. Not too often we see that from so many of the damned threads in Life Support lolol.
Furthermore, there comes a time in many, many marriages when the constant atmosphere of toxic emotions will do far more harm to the kids than keeping them in the same prep school, and in all the latest trendy adolescent fashion accessories. Especially when dad is already blowing the college fund on coke whores and VIP rooms.
:D
(Sorry to make a joke of it Arken)
My mom & dad loved each other passionately, but they were total opposites & couldn't spend 24 hours together without a major blowup. My brother in particular did not benefit at all from their putting off the inevitable split. And wow did we suffer financially at first, so you do raise a valid issue. But there is far more to raising a family than money. Plus my mom was a trooper & busted her ass to provide as well as she could, which in the end she did very well at. This insistence of yours that the only viable family model is the atavistic suburban household from cheezy 70s television shows is really kind of distressing to read.
Not trying to fuck with you man, just being honest.
I see it's been a while since she's posted so maybe she's gone forever. I hope you find happiness Arken...or at least a way out of the dilemma.
rickdugan
08-28-2015, 09:16 AM
I just saw this.
Damn it, Rick...was it really necessary to be so sarcastic?
And she doesn't strike me as being in the slightest bit trollish. I rather liked her & her attitude about her situation--as bad as it seemed to be. She was fully aware of her own part in the process leading to that degree of alienation. Not too often we see that from so many of the damned threads in Life Support lolol.
Furthermore, there comes a time in many, many marriages when the constant atmosphere of toxic emotions will do far more harm to the kids than keeping them in the same prep school, and in all the latest trendy adolescent fashion accessories. Especially when dad is already blowing the college fund on coke whores and VIP rooms.
:D
(Sorry to make a joke of it Arken)
My mom & dad loved each other passionately, but they were total opposites & couldn't spend 24 hours together without a major blowup. My brother in particular did not benefit at all from their putting off the inevitable split. And wow did we suffer financially at first, so you do raise a valid issue. But there is far more to raising a family than money. Plus my mom was a trooper & busted her ass to provide as well as she could, which in the end she did very well at. This insistence of yours that the only viable family model is the atavistic suburban household from cheezy 70s television shows is really kind of distressing to read.
Not trying to fuck with you man, just being honest.
I see it's been a while since she's posted so maybe she's gone forever. I hope you find happiness Arken...or at least a way out of the dilemma.
Lol DJ. Sharing your honest opinions is not "fucking with" me and I certainly don't take it that way. :) We just see this from two different viewpoints. Truth be told, around these parts I fully expected mine to be the minority viewpoint. ;) It is what it is.
The college fund is going to be a lot worse off when they have to support two households than with him blowing 5 or 6k a year on outside entertainment, so I'm not buying the financial angle. Add to that the reality that she cannot seem to stop her extracurricular communications with other guys any more than he can seem to control himself and it's becoming pretty clear that she's looking for an escape hatch. I'm guessing that part of this is driven by the fact that she obviously feels like she missed out on something by marrying her high school sweet heart.
So my sarcasm was founded in the notion that these are two people who are thinking more about themselves than their kids. Nothing I have seen posted since makes me believe otherwise. Meanwhile, unbeknownst to these poor kids, who currently sleep soundly with the notion that Mommy and Daddy are there for them and their home is secure, their world is about to be rocked in a fundamental way that will likely change their emotional outlooks forever.
As for the rest, we will have to agree to disagree on the benefits of a two parent home. Other options are certainly viable, but I actually believe that it is easier, in some respects, for a kid who never had that than it is for one who did and then had it torn away.
There is nothing courageous or heroic about breaking a home apart, especially when there is no truly compelling reason to do so. It is the easy way out. When I dated in my 30s and came across women with kids who were divorced, I immediately rejected any who told me that they divorced because they "fell out of love" or "grew apart" or "married too early." Once a runner, always a runner. I wasn't going to put one of my own in the belly of a girl who I couldn't trust to help provide the child stability.
And for those people who let their fighting and other crap spill out in front of their kids before finally divorcing, that is just another function of the same weakness and self-involvement. Maybe it is better that these types divorce as the kids are fucked either way anyway - at least they might as well be fucked without the constant stress.
Anyway, just one man's views fwiw. :)
Luna66
08-28-2015, 10:09 AM
There is nothing courageous or heroic about breaking a home apart, especially when there is no truly compelling reason to do so. It is the easy way out. When I dated in my 30s and came across women with kids who were divorced, I immediately rejected any who told me that they divorced because they "fell out of love" or "grew apart" or "married too early." Once a runner, always a runner. I wasn't going to put one of my own in the belly of a girl who I couldn't trust to help provide the child stability.
I have been reading this thread but not responded yet because I just couldn't face it, but this just makes me too incredibly sad and angry to not say something. All respect I ever had for you Rick has been completely destroyed (we haven't interacted much on SW over the years but i've read your posts and agreed with a lot of them and respected you for them in the past). I can only imagine that this BS is what you fill your wife's head with to stop her leaving you so you can carry on spending all your time and money banging dancers/escorts and going home to the poor woman afterwards. How you can possibly think that your situation is good for your children, let alone better for them than a mutually respectful, happily divorced set of parents is utterly beyond me.
miss.a.p1600
08-28-2015, 12:21 PM
RickDugan I totally admire your effort to make family a priority. More men should be like that. And hopefully the OP has a husband like that.
I just think your views of what a 'family' is or what a 'home' is ....meh a bit out dated but hey, your opinion you're entitled to.
True. people with kids should keep their priorities on the kids and their families and not let issues lower in priority interfere. However the world is not perfect. And how do you want your kids to react when faced with adversity? Let say worse case scenario you HAVE to divorce. Kids happen to be resilient. Main thing is they want to be loved and have some consistency but this can be done in more than 1 home with family that can be more that just 2 parents. and as long as parents / caregivers can be mature, things CAN work out in a favorable way for everyone.
I understand the marriage vows are also tied into religion so maybe this is a touchy subject for some.
Also you mention the thing about OP kids was kinda rough to hear considering only thing anybody knows about the her is the few posts she has made. But hey, maybe different point of view.
well. thats it cause I value our cyber acquaintanceship and don't want to get on your bad side.
rickdugan
08-28-2015, 03:34 PM
I have been reading this thread but not responded yet because I just couldn't face it, but this just makes me too incredibly sad and angry to not say something. All respect I ever had for you Rick has been completely destroyed (we haven't interacted much on SW over the years but i've read your posts and agreed with a lot of them and respected you for them in the past). I can only imagine that this BS is what you fill your wife's head with to stop her leaving you so you can carry on spending all your time and money banging dancers/escorts and going home to the poor woman afterwards. How you can possibly think that your situation is good for your children, let alone better for them than a mutually respectful, happily divorced set of parents is utterly beyond me.
Luna, I'll just have to find a way to carry on somehow now that I've lost your respect. But I've never hidden my situation or what I do, so I'm surprised that you are surprised. But also add "devious" to my list of many failings, since I use my business as a cover to keep my activities far away from the home front.
And like I said before, neither you nor anyone else knows anything about what happens in the Dugan household. Sacrifice can be a two way street - see post # 110 of this thread. But at least my wife also understands that breaking up our home would make things FAR worse for our children. She hasn't had to punch a clock in over a decade and has devoted most of her life to the children (and various charitable activities), which has helped them immensely. We have happy children who are secure, developing well and my two oldest are both straight A students in a fairly rigorous private school. Neither of us wants to do anything to derail everything they have and are achieving.
IMHO and IME, this fanciful notion that a child is happiest when the parents are happiest is a load of crap. Children, particularly young ones, need security, stability and nurturing more than anything else. When parents split, the kids often lose at least the first two and sometimes all three. So all too often those "happily divorced sets of parents" achieve that happiness at the expense of their children's happiness and healthy emotional development.
Now look, others can have differing opinions and I don't mean to make anyone feel bad, so I'm going to leave this here. I'll also concede that I'm probably terribly old fashioned in this one particular area. I had no intention of coming back into this thread at all, but I kinda' felt dragged back in with the nature of some of the most recent comments. Anyway, anything else I say is probably going to be repetitive, so I will leave it at that.
Djoser
08-29-2015, 01:28 AM
The college fund is going to be a lot worse off when they have to support two households than with him blowing 5 or 6k a year on outside entertainment, so I'm not buying the financial angle. Add to that the reality that she cannot seem to stop her extracurricular communications with other guys any more than he can seem to control himself and it's becoming pretty clear that she's looking for an escape hatch. I'm guessing that part of this is driven by the fact that she obviously feels like she missed out on something by marrying her high school sweet heart.
ETA sorry just read your last post and it does seem as though I am responsible for dragging you back here when you meant to leave it. Feel free to just ignore the following, then...
More like 18 K or more, according to her reports of his activities. 700 a night, 2-3 times a month, it adds up.
And where do you get this 'she cannot seem to stop her extracurricular activities'??? Because a male acquaintance sent her--without her invitation--a bare chested text picture??? Compared to blowing 700 a night twice a month getting his dick sucked? On what planet are these two kinds of activities even remotely comparable?
There was the old affair she had years in the past, but the manly thing for him to to do would have been to leave her way back then, or else learn to deal with it if he stayed. Not spend months or years on end and untold thousands of dollars on this rather ugly, vindictive form of payback.
If I were her, he'd be out the fucking door, or I would if he had the house. I'd rather live on the street than with a SO that deceitful.
If I had to choose a new childhood, count me out of any family atmosphere that has daddy lying through his teeth to mommy, and banging every stripper he can get twice a month until 8 AM. That's no quality daddy role model, that's seriously dysfunctional.
Anyway this is probably pointless as she hasn't been back for a while. I liked her and I hope she has found an answer.
lynn2009
08-29-2015, 04:57 AM
Anyway this is probably pointless as she hasn't been back for a while. I liked her and I hope she has found an answer.
OP was too polite to say as much but I sent her a pm regarding the rudest comments to her in this thread (telling her to ignore them for reasons that ended up being detailed by others anyway) and she told me she was planning on coming back in six months to give an update.
rickdugan
08-29-2015, 05:11 AM
DJ, the following are excerpts from her posts:
Since January, I count $5.5K (1-2x / month). These days closer to 1x/month, rather than other years where the tallies were higher (~15K) and it was closer to 2x/month.
I had a friend of mine that I was texting with, who IS on the flirtier side, "accidentally" send me a shirtless pic of himself.
He would say I've cheated again, because I would text/IM with guys I knew IRL but nobody I was in love with or close to screwing.
Now, us not meeting each other's needs is exactly the problem here. Obviously, our sex life sucks, and when we both resent each other then it doesn't happen. We both want more.
We've been together since out of high school so it's the only thing I really know. I don't recommend that.
Fair enough on the money side and maybe he's spending closer to 10k a year at current pace, but that's still far less than the cost of supporting a second household.
I think her own escape hatch feelings are pretty clear and her texting activities weren't limited to one guy, though she was a little dodgy in spelling that out and I'm questioning whether we got the full story on her side (I'm guessing not). So she was seeking outside excitement even before they had kids (with the so-called "emotional affair") and, it would seem, she continued to do so after. There are no victims in this story except for the children. He is acting badly to be sure, but she helped create the state of affairs as it currently exists with her own bad behavior.
Just posted this for clarity. I have no intentions of rehashing any of the other stuff. :)
unbeleavable
08-29-2015, 10:05 PM
Closed