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Gerald
09-11-2015, 11:35 AM
Hello,

We are working on custom video request form which would help streamline the transaction between customers and performers. Basically, upon clicking on your link the customer would be displayed a page featuring:

- information about you: do's and don'ts, the gear you use for filming, lingerie/sextoys you have, etc. depending on what you provide
- a form to easily lay out what he wants to happen during the video: length, different steps of the scenario, what you should say/use etc. (not every details would have to be filled out).

You would then be notified that you have a new request, have a look at it easily so you can reply / propose a price.

Additionally, the service would handle payment processing and escrow the funds so that the customer can pay without fearing a potential scam, and you can make the video knowing that the funds are there. Once you upload it, we send it to the customer and transfer the funds to your wallet (revshare ~85%).

In order to design the best user experience, we're looking forward to gather samples of custom video requests. May some of you be so kind and PM me / post here requests you've had from your customers?

Indeed any feedback / question is more than welcome.

Have a great day,
Gérald

justsometwat
09-12-2015, 04:48 AM
I save all of my emails with custom requests but wouldn't post them publicly or privately for that matter because you could take those ideas and make the videos to sell. There's no verification of who you are or if you're affiliated with any models.

I'd suggest you go to iwantcustoms.com or customs4u.com or even extralunchmoney and look around. Lots of profiles on elm have their custom work pages filled out and there's a custom requests tab you can look through.

Gerald
09-12-2015, 05:16 AM
Hello Justsometwat,

I want to see requests to design a tool allowing to lay out requests in a more convenient and clearer way, not to use them as "scripts" for videos. If I'd make videos, I would actually receive requests on my own and not even need to ask around. Would you consider selling the requests you saved maybe? (just the text, not the emails of course)

Thanks for the suggestion, I have done it already and it was interesting indeed but I am really looking forward to see the "raw material" not just the solutions that were designed already.

ps: I have sent you my linkedin profile by PM for verification

justsometwat
09-12-2015, 06:09 AM
I don't see why you'd need to see someone's actual requests to get the information you need. Requests come in a few different ways:

1) Hey Twat, can you make me a 15 minute long video (HD) where you use your biggest dildo and call me tallywacker while you cum? How much would that cost?


2) Hey Twat, here's this 20 page long script that I want done. I want to pay $10 for it and it's an hour long script, when can you get this done? Let me randomly paste it into this email so you have to skim through the hole thing for 20 minutes to figure out what's going on.
Then you respond to it and tell them that you'd charge more than that and that you don't make hour long videos and they come back with: "What if we remove line 2,728 and bring the video down to 50 minutes instead?
Then you facepalm and wonder what's wrong with that person. Then they email you 20 more times to try to make changes that don't change anything.

3) Yo, Twat, you do gangbang videos with random truckers at the gloryhole?
You respond (yes or no) and they never reply and disappear into the night.

Very rarely someone (usually an avid fan) will email you and give you this line up:
10 minute video
HD (1080 if possible)
You in your mermaid costume.
You get face fucked by the Hulk and he cums in your left eye.
How much would that cost?
Reply: I would charge $100 for that video and I can make it with all of your specification, anything specific you'd like me to say in your video?
Yes, can you moan his name "John" while he cums in your eye? I'll send payment over now.


Most people that email me have never bought anything from me, don't look at my limits or how much I charge per minute. Most of them never reply back when you ask for specifics, and when they do they tell you that they will pay for it in a week or two then you never hear from them again. Some of them expect the moon but only want to pay as little as possible.

This was a request I saw on ELM a while back:
Rent a hotel room and film yourself peeing on the carpet in several places, then masturbate in it.
Offered something like 15 credits for it.
That's less than $10 to rent a hotel room and ruin someone's day when they go in and realize what you've done and probably charge you $200 to get the carpets cleaned professionally.

-----------
Custom video forms should have these specifics (what I think they should have):

-Model chooses what categories she will film and is allowed to charge an extra price depending on category. Example, a G/G video will have a +$100 charge to compensate second model.
-Price per minute, optional discount off total amount if they go over a certain period of time.
-Section for any props or additional items needed for video
-Delivery time, additional charges for faster turn around times if model wants.
-Exclusivity and use of name charges
-Outline of script section

As long as the price auto-calculates as they enter in info you're golden.

Issabelle
09-12-2015, 12:17 PM
Wait, lemme get this straight, we have no idea who you are other than a dude who just spammed the shit out of several members of this forum via PM (yeah, camgirls don't like that) practically demanding information of use to you that has absolutely no payout to us? And when we suggest a site where you could go, as JustSomeTwat initially did, and do the damned work of researching it yourself, you still have the audacity to come back here and say you'd rather we do all the work for you by handing over our customers private requests instead of taking the hour to read all the public postings on these clip sites? How damned lazy are you?

You want to open a business, fine. If you already expect the models who don't know you to do the research, then you probably expect them to do everything else too. You won't last a month, but thanks for making it so abundantly clear that you don't give a shit about the women in this industry besides what they can do for you.

Gerald
09-12-2015, 03:05 PM
EDIT: double post sorry

Gerald
09-12-2015, 03:14 PM
EDIT: double post, sorry

Gerald
09-12-2015, 03:15 PM
Hello,

Thanks a lot for your insightful answer justsometwat. I am a bit confused because you said my answer was "snarky" in the other thread, I looked up for it and it sounds rather bad, yet you make me such a nice answer!

I scraped the public custom video requests which are on ELM, but I assume public requests are different from the private ones sent to a model in particular. May be wrong but I'd like to read the both types of requests to compare. Also I'm thinking different models may cater to very different type of requests, in that case we should propose different types of forms which are adapted to each model case.

It is very interesting the different types of scenarios you are laying out. I think we could provide automated CRM about users who make an initial request but do not follow up so to get them to follow up eventually. If I understand correctly, most of the "serious" requests are actually quite generic? In that case how do you handle it: do you actually make a custom video or pick one you already made that will "suit him"?

The custom video form you outline is rather close to what we envisioned. We've made a mock-up of it, may I share it with you via PM if you'd like to provide feedback? We want to dynamically calculate a price range as the user fills his requests, but I am not sure we can achieve an exact price. I thought the model would like to always tell the price himself?


Issabelle, I think there is a misunderstanding. I accessed public postings, but would also like to read private ones: I cannot assume they are identical. I did contact some models via PM for it as well, but only models which I found in threads related to selling custom videos as I thought they might be willing to share or to sell.

I do not expect models to do my work, but I need to engage with models in order to get feedbacks and design a great software. So yes I contact people I do not know, and apparently did not respect the proper etiquette. I am sorry about that and will not do it again. But please do not assume crazy things about what I think of performers in this industry.

As for who I am: I am a 25 y.o. french guy, business profile, who worked a couple of years in the industry already (mainly in the cam business for a small pay-per-minute website, also in sextoys/dating) and is now willing to start its own business with a partner. Our motto is that the standards for mainstream web products are generally way higher than on adult web products, we'd like to rebuild existing products with the same high quality user experiences/interfaces as in mainstream.

Have a nice day,
Gérald

Luna66
09-12-2015, 03:32 PM
I scraped the public custom video requests which are on ELM, but I assume public requests are different from the private ones sent to a model in particular. May be wrong

You may well be wrong, when I was on ELM (I left because of the ridiculously low average prices there) a hell of a lot of the requests I got were a copy+paste of what they'd written on the public requests page with a little "dear insertmodelname, regards insertcustomername" added on. We get all types of requests, i've had 1 sentence requests and emails which i've immediately trashed because they're 2000 words long.


Also I'm thinking different models may cater to very different type of requests, in that case we should propose different types of forms which are adapted to each model case.

This is the best idea you've had yet. Give models as many different options as possible and let them pick which options they want to show on their form. The ones Justsometwat recommended are exactly what I have on the form on my Tumblr. Of course, I am obliged to mention that models can create a form for free, embed it in to their tumblr/website/whatever (much easier than a lot of models probably think) and take payments through whatever their preferred method is. So the advantage of using your service? Will you be providing traffic?


If I understand correctly, most of the "serious" requests are actually quite generic? In that case how do you handle it: do you actually make a custom video or pick one you already made that will "suit him"?

Yeah, we charge custom rates ($5-$15 per minute) for a pre-made video, coz boy do we just love to scam people! Sorry, that was sarcastic, but come on. Of course we don't (or at least, I don't). Partly because 99.9% of my custom video clients find me through clips4sale (which has every single video i've ever made except exclusive customs) and if I send them a "custom" video which has already been posted on my clip store they'd probably know it. But mainly because I work for my money and when someone pays me $5-$15 per minute, my gratitude for them spending their hard earned cash on me motivates me to give 100% to the video I make for them. Aside from the sarcastic answer, in this situation I would email back and ask for more detail. If he didn't give any more detail and genuinely wanted something extremely generic, I would make it for him and give it my all.

scarlettbelle
09-12-2015, 03:38 PM
So you want us to copy+paste the private emails that our customers send us?! All ethics aside, I really don't see how that could possibly help you. Every guy sends things in a different way. Some of them send a script, some of them ask for something very generic. Some of them expect us to have a film crew living in our closet. And many times it's an ongoing conversation, not a one-and-done email.

Yes, having a form to fill out could be helpful. But surely you could figure out what works by looking at the forms that models already have on their profiles and websites? The things you already listed are fine. Maybe throw in some sections for props and you'd be good to go. Or you could have a very generic form that models on your site could alter to suit their needs.

Vlodina
09-12-2015, 03:43 PM
Customs4U already does this. Alas they don't seem to have any traffic. Traffic would help you stand out!

Luna66
09-12-2015, 04:15 PM
And many times it's an ongoing conversation, not a one-and-done email.

This is a very important point!

justsometwat
09-12-2015, 04:49 PM
Let's just take a moment and read what others have responded, see how they all say what I said? It's because it's the same for all of us. You do not need to see private messages to gather the information we've told you.

Customers value their privacy, many have even been upset when models use their script in their descriptions rather than us writing our own when we resell the videos. I don't think many would be happy that we are posting them for all to see.

Of course models all offer different things, I don't offer taboo, pee, period, scat, gang bang, or threesome videos -among many other things - but lots of models do. Some models like some on elm offer 30 minute long videos for $10 or less, some charge 100x that amount. You can gather as much information as you'd like but there's not going to be some grand revelation that allows you to make some amazing website that everyone will flock to.

You need a form like I suggested, like already exists and you need stellar traffic. Then you need great payment processors, speedy payouts and a high percentage.

What you're trying to develop has been done before and will be done again after you're long gone. Set yourself apart from everyone else, offer what others can't, but I doubt you'd be able to because you're not willing to put on the work.

I'm done. You don't see to like my horribly spent time replying, Mr snarkypants

Gerald
09-13-2015, 10:02 AM
Hello everyone,

Okay then, given your feedbacks I'll assume public and private requests are similar and will work with the ELM ones to try and find patterns. I did not think transferring the body of the email would be a privacy concern as it would be anonymous data to us.


This is the best idea you've had yet. Give models as many different options as possible and let them pick which options they want to show on their form.

Yes agreed, the form would be customizable and options added/removed. We could also provide the ability to generate different forms for the sake of A/B testing, so that each half of your customers are displayed one of the form and the analytics let you know which one works best. Would you be interested in such a feature or does that sound like too much efforts?


So the advantage of using your service? Will you be providing traffic?

We thought payment processing with a high revshare (~85%) is a strong advantage, but what do you currently use to process payments for your customers contacting you directly? Does a 15% cut still sounds too high for using us to process payments compared to other solutions available?

We would not provide the traffic at first, or very few since it needs time to build up, but that would be the second move after getting the solution straight up. We want customers to be able to submit forms publicly so that performers can reply a proposal. Kinda similar to what ELM is proposing but with more professional features (inspired from freelance sites) such as notifications when a request suits a performer interest - depending on price, type of content, desired quality of the footage, customer who already made purchases etc.

Also another advantage besides streamlining the process would be that each performer is considered as an affiliate, so when you get the ~85% payout on your sale it would actually be ~65% + ~20%. Those ~20% are earned on any sales arising from the customer, when they are requesting videos from other performers as well.

We know ELM and C4U already do similar things as we are describing, and I may be called snarky again, but I think there's room for improvement in the execution.


Concerning the fact that requests for custom videos are ongoing discussions, we thought the initial form submitted by the customer would be the basis for discussion upon which the performer could validate / comment / counter-propose on the various elements of the scenario. This way all the information would be centralized and easily accessible, the form would act like an "agreement" between the parties instead of exchanging lengthy emails. What do you think about it?

@justsometwat: I do like your answers and hope you'll keep replying. I'm not sure why you're convinced I'm not willing to put in the efforts. I'm not sure what snarky means exactly either, english is not my native language are definitions are either relatively positive or negative.


Have a nice sunday,
Gérald

Aurora14
09-13-2015, 11:57 AM
We thought payment processing with a high revshare (~85%) is a strong advantage, but what do you currently use to process payments for your customers contacting you directly? Does a 15% cut still sounds too high for using us to process payments compared to other solutions available?

You haven't even researched payment processors! How are you supposed to know if only keeping 15% will cover your overhead? There was a company that kept (I believe) 40% and they are having issues paying models. Would you be covering chargebacks? It would suck to make a video worth $250 just to get a chargeback a month later. Do you have enough start up money to cover the first few months of bills and payments? Rarely does a start up not run into monetary issues when they begin.


We would not provide the traffic at first, or very few since it needs time to build up, but that would be the second move after getting the solution straight up.

Not everyone has a following that they can/are willing to drag to a new site. Getting 85% with zero traffic gives me $0. That means 0 incentive to use your site. We have a camgirl run site (a person we trust, know, and does her best to make everyone happy) that offers 85%. But her site has always be marketed as an indy option/ alternate to big box sites/ way to have payment processing when we don't have our own processors. You have to give us a reason to direct our existing traffic to your site. (Especially on this forum) We aren't keen on burning our bridges or abandoning site that may be "flawed" but is bringing us an income just because someone comes around waving high payout percentages in our faces. Why is using your site more beneficial to me than the sites we are currently utilizing?


Also another advantage besides streamlining the process would be that each performer is considered as an affiliate, so when you get the ~85% payout on your sale it would actually be ~65% + ~20%. Those ~20% are earned on any sales arising from the customer, when they are requesting videos from other performers as well.

This is not 85% payout. It is a 65% payout and additional 20% for anything the customer pays for. If the customer purchasing from me is not a customer I brought in, I would get 65%. The model that brought the customer to the site would get 20% on that sale I just made, not me. It is only 85% IF they sign up under my link and order from me.


We know ELM and C4U already do similar things as we are describing, and I may be called snarky again, but I think there's room for improvement in the execution.

If you think you can improve the process, then just do it. Basics are already there, add your improvements or take out the things you believe are hindering the process. I think you see room for improvement only because you see models bitch about the imperfections since YOU are asking US how to fix this site for you.

Gerald
09-13-2015, 04:34 PM
Hello Aurora,

I have researched high-risk payment service providers and their B2B solutions. I meant how do you process payment in case of someone contacting you directly in your case, e.g. I contact you via email and we have a deal for a custom video at $100? Would you ask me to use the site you mentioned, which is LCMS I believe, to send you a gift card or.. ?

Concerning the overheads, we've be working on financial models and yes 15% is enough but it requires a larger volume than 40% indeed. We do have start-up money for covering the few months.

Chargebacks is a trickier question and I do not have a definitive answer yet. There are different cases to consider and imho there are cases where we would not cover chargebacks: for example if the custom video sent does not match the scenario which was agreed upon; or if we are suspicious there could be a scheme to make money on our back (a new model with no track record getting a couple of sales which are all chargebacked later on for example).


Not everyone has a following that they can/are willing to drag to a new site.

Agreed. But during the launch phase we will attempt to cater only to those people who are willing too. If we cannot convince them to onboard, it means something is wrong with our product/strategy and must be corrected. And until then it would be basically worthless to performers who cannot bring demand.


Why is using your site more beneficial to me than the sites we are currently utilizing?

I think - hope? - it would be better to direct your fanbase toward our site since it would supposedly run smoothly and offer a higher payout than the competition for direct sales you generate. When I see a performer with X thousand followers linking back to his C4S store on Twitter for example, I think it's a bad option since you are basically making the marketing for C4S which is not compensating you for it: your cut remains the same. What do you think about it?

Regarding the initial simple product, the custom form for video requests, it should save you time by streamlining the transaction - discussion, validation, escrow and content delivery - as well as increasing the average customer's spending for a custom by upselling: your lingerie, sextoys and other offers would be showcased to tempt the customer into adding extras.

Essentially what we will be doing with this form is structuring information. Structured information is good because it will allow us to match demands with the relevant performers, contrarily to ELM which is simply listing all the different public requests for you to search through. If someone wants a video featuring 3 performers, an HD camera and (...) we'll know and let the relevant performers know there's a job they could do - assuming it matches your personal criterias, for example you may have set a minimum price -. Hell, we could even know you most likely have already made a similar custom video in the past that you could resell (not sure that is an okay practice though).

That really is our initial focus and I do not want to try and list awesome features/benefits that "will" exist. I do not think you'd trust any of this, and that would be the right thing to do.


This is not 85% payout. It is a 65% payout and additional 20% for anything the customer pays for. If the customer purchasing from me is not a customer I brought in, I would get 65%. The model that brought the customer to the site would get 20% on that sale I just made, not me. It is only 85% IF they sign up under my link and order from me.

You are correct. The tracking mechanic would be slightly different though: you would always get the ~85% for "direct sales", i.e. someone who just came from your personal tracked link and made a purchase - even if that person was already signed up via another affiliate, in that case the other affiliate would not get his 20% on your direct sale -. If you direct someone to the site through your personal tracked link and he signs up, you would get 20% revenue share on all his purchases except direct sales of other models.

If we generate you a sale, for example someone you did not refer who finds your profile and make a purchase, in that case you would get ~65%.

Is that clear enough? What's your take on it?


If you think you can improve the process, then just do it. Basics are already there, add your improvements or take out the things you believe are hindering the process. I think you see room for improvement only because you see models bitch about the imperfections since YOU are asking US how to fix this site for you.

We're fond of lean approaches actually (Lean Start-up is a pretty damn good business book if you like reading) and value feedback a lot, that's why I attempt to openly discuss our idea even prior to building. If we'd just build what we think is right while staying in our ivory tower, chances are it would just arrive on the market and be pretty useless to everyone. That's why whenever you share about things which matters to you it is immensely valuable to us.

There's 3 things we want to make happen/fix basically:

1) A payout structure which compensates fairly for referring your customers to our site, being a useful tool for indy performers
2) Structuring the information so that the good requests arrive to the good performers, in a clear and concise way
3) Great user experience & interface so that it's quick & easy for customers and performers to handle requests


Gérald

Gerald
09-13-2015, 04:36 PM
Edit: Jeez I am really terrible with double posts, sorry

audritwo
09-17-2015, 04:33 PM
Wow. Do your own research.

Gerald
09-18-2015, 07:08 AM
Hello Audritwo

I have done my own research and asking/purchasing samples of requests was part of it. So far nobody is willing to share those but scraped about 12000 of them on ELM.

If someone is willing to share requests we can have a deal, I am still interested.

Also asking models for input is part of the research since cam models would be part of our user base, I duly noted the feedbacks. If you have something to share about the product idea I would be greatly interested to hear it from you

Regards,
Gérald

DonaDiabla
09-18-2015, 08:45 PM
I smell another failed clip business such as FetMeOver. I feel sorry for anyone who will sign up for your future company because they might not get paid. By the way, there is already a few European companies that everyone can stick to such as Youkandy.com :)


Hello Audritwo

I have done my own research and asking/purchasing samples of requests was part of it. So far nobody is willing to share those but scraped about 12000 of them on ELM.

If someone is willing to share requests we can have a deal, I am still interested.

Also asking models for input is part of the research since cam models would be part of our user base, I duly noted the feedbacks. If you have something to share about the product idea I would be greatly interested to hear it from you

Regards,
Gérald

caramelcraze
09-21-2015, 04:47 PM
Here ya go! http://extralunchmoney.com/requests
I know it maybe hard to believe, but 99% of the emails we receive look like those in the elm request section. c4u has an awesome request section and I get a decent amount of traffic through them. Also, c4u pays out 80% for tributes which is the best I've seen thus far & considering the amount of charge backs I'm sure they get, it's hard to believe anyone could do better in that department. payment processing is high risk stuff, which is why most sites don't pay above 60%.

Gerald
09-24-2015, 06:25 AM
Hello,

@Caramelcraze: Thanks for the info. It's nice that you get traffic from C4U, on Ambercutie some models shared not getting any. Would you say there are differences between ELM and C4U? For example about the price customers are willing to pay for a custom?

You are right about chargebacks and the 80% which is hard to beat. With the research I've done, I think a company could pay up to 85% but not more.

@DonaDiabla: I am not sure what makes you say that from a few forum threads? It's an easy prophecy to make anyway, since most start-ups fail and there's always a chance that some creditors might not get paid. I hope we will prove you wrong and you take a minute of your time to have a look at the product when it's launched :)

Have a nice day,
Gérald

audritwo
09-24-2015, 10:47 AM
Lol, the only thing that matters is TRAFFIC. CAN YOU GET TRAFFIC TO YOUR SITE?! Not these custom fillout forms. TRAFFIC. I don't care if you payout is 40%. 85% of $0 is still $0.

Gerald
09-25-2015, 04:54 PM
Hello Audritwo,

Quality traffic builds up slowly overtime, so yes we can get traffic and we want to do so indeed, but before this we need to provide our users with something useful to them besides traffic. Otherwise, it is a chicken and egg problem: models do not sign up because there is no traffic, or traffic is useless as there are no models.

What we want to provide is a better way for models to handle custom video requests from their existing customer base: a neat solution with better payouts so that it already makes sense working with us before we can bring you customers on our own (and that when we do bring customers, we already have models signed up who they can request from).

Do not you think the ability to get your customers pay by credit card directly for your services while you keep ~85% would be useful?

Regards,
Gérald

Luna66
09-26-2015, 06:27 PM
Do not you think the ability to get your customers pay by credit card directly for your services while you keep ~85% would be useful?

I certainly do. Which is why I use LCMS.

Gerald
09-28-2015, 05:43 AM
@Luna66: thanks for the tip

May I ask you regarding LCMS:

- Have you got the ability to set recurring payment: for example $30 / month for your customer?

- Are you chargeback protected?

- Would you generate generate a payment page for me to pay you so I can see how it looks like? An amount like 5-10€ if that suits you? Please send me a PM if interested.


Have a nice day,
Gérald

laurielegs
09-29-2015, 09:49 AM
@Luna66: thanks for the tip

May I ask you regarding LCMS:

- Have you got the ability to set recurring payment: for example $30 / month for your customer?

- Are you chargeback protected?

- Would you generate generate a payment page for me to pay you so I can see how it looks like? An amount like 5-10€ if that suits you? Please send me a PM or a mail directly at billoir.gerald @gmail.com if interested.


Have a nice day,
Gérald

Wow. You are asking one of us to help you spy on LCMS by seeing how their payment page works? and for 5 to 10 euros?
I hope nobody does this.

Luna66
09-29-2015, 10:25 AM
Thanks LaurieLegs, I wasn't really sure how to respond! Ridiculous.

Gerald, in answer to your other questions, no I can't set up a recurring payment as far as I know, but I wouldn't want to. If you were running a clip subscription site this would be relevant, but as your site is focused on custom videos, I don't see why a recurring payment system would be needed.

Direct quote regarding chargebacks from the webmaster of LCMS from a thread on this forum:

"thus far LCMS has had two cb's. The first I challenged with Visa and won (with my own merchant account I can do that) , and with the second I worked out a repayment plan with an obvious friendly fraud client after I threatened to sue him. LCMS has an aggressive cb dispute policy and thus far its working; both chicas subject to cb's have kept the money."

But as you're not providing traffic and you're asking us to bring our own established, trusted regulars who've been buying from us for months/years without doing chargebacks, again I don't see how it's relevant.

Gerald
09-29-2015, 02:15 PM
Hello,

It is not spying to access publicly available information -.-'

They work with Orbitalpay and have the basic version of the payment page.

What I wanted to see how you can send me a payment request, i.e. can you send me a link which leads directly to a payment page where I can pay you the custom amount you are requesting.

Btw, 84% of LCMS is from CA, we are launching an EU product, so please do not go go crazy about the spying thing. This is ridiculous.


Actually I've been chatting with models on ACF as well, and it would appear the form for custom videos interests no one without traffic. The payment part on the other hand, in particular conveniently having customers paying an indie model via credit card though had more interest. So with the various feedbacks we collected, we decided to focus on payments only and hatched out the following product:

42729

Basically once you are signed up, you could:

1) Set an amount you want to receive
2) Enter a description for the transaction
3) Click "Generate payment page" and get an URL to send over to your customer.

As soon as the customers pay we let you know, we add a processing fee over your chosen amount but you do receive 100% of what you ask.

The benefits of the product are:

- chargeback protection (I got to discuss this a lot with ACF models, and figured we'd better charge customers a bit more on every transaction and protect models from chargebacks - kinda like an insurance -) EDIT: I have just noticed this wireframes is from before this decision, please do not take 3D secure into account!

- you will have the ability to process credit cards, without any upfront cost of engagement.

- you will be able to generate a payment form for any content or service you sell (not just customs), whether it is a direct sale - for example if a customer contacts you by email for a Skype show, you can send him back a payment link - or on your website.

- it will work from mobile, both generating the URL to a payment page and paying for the customer

- you will be able to ask for recurring payments (day / week / month), and we will update you about how it went (in particular if some payments did not work we'll let you which customers to contact them and fix the issue)

- a low vendor cut compared to industry standards, allowing you to keep more from your sale (we should add between 15 to 25% on top of your requested amount)
--> I know giftcards is 100%; but it is not real money (except Giftrocket in US), it cannot be recurring, and you cannot sell a content for a giftcard on your website

- it will be really easy in convenient, set up a payment page in a minute, get to know as soon as it is paid

- Payments will be processed by a secure and reliable third party - we will not have credit card information etc. -


This is why I was asking, if you would like to share input about this product idea and whether or not it would come handy to you it would be awesome.

Have a nice day,
Gérald

Luna66
09-29-2015, 03:50 PM
That's not a terrible idea. I won't be using it for the following reasons (aside from the fact that I already have a payment processor i'm happy with).


- chargeback protection (I got to discuss this a lot with ACF models, and figured we'd better charge customers a bit more on every transaction and protect models from chargebacks - kinda like an insurance -)

I'd rather not be protected from chargebacks than have my customers charged extra in order to protect less experienced girls who can't recognise a fraudulent client. This is not meant in any way to be offensive to less experienced girls (hell i've been there myself) but in this business (and any business really), it's all about getting the best deal you can for yourself. Also, I really hate the "you get 100% of what you ask for" business model, I really really do. Another site has it too (customs4you I think?). We're not getting 100% of what the guy is paying, you're charging him extra and it's just confusing for both parties. I would get confused and either over or under charge my regulars who have been with me for a long time.


- a low vendor cut compared to industry standards, allowing you to keep more from your sale (we should add between 15 to 25% on top of your requested amount)

So we're getting 75-85% of what they're paying. Not so confident about the 85% now? Is that because of your chargeback "insurance"? There are plenty of fully established, popular sites that pay 75% AND provide traffic (CMD, Skyprivate, tributes on most clips sites including c4s, kinkbomb etc).


- Payments will be processed by a secure and reliable third party - we will not have credit card information etc. -

*Controversial opinion alert* I am happy about the fact that on clips4sale, LCMS and many other places I get some information on the customer when he makes a payment. I have to put my face, my location, my voice, everything about myself out there for potential stalkers to find (and believe me, they have) and I like having some info on them in return. Not that I would ever use it except in a situation where I was being stalked/blackmailed/harassed etc.


I think maybe one thing that I am failing to get across here is that you are NEW. You may have a website idea that encompasses all the positive aspects of my favourite sites and none of the negative aspects, but I don't know you and I don't trust you. I (and a lot of girls, especially on this forum) will not sign up to something unless it is established and has positive reviews from girls. The exception being LCMS because it's run by a girl who's been on these forums and in the business a long time.

Flickdreams
09-30-2015, 03:03 AM
............

I think maybe one thing that I am failing to get across here is that you are NEW. You may have a website idea that encompasses all the positive aspects of my favourite sites and none of the negative aspects, but I don't know you and I don't trust you. I (and a lot of girls, especially on this forum) will not sign up to something unless it is established and has positive reviews from girls. The exception being LCMS because it's run by a girl who's been on these forums and in the business a long time.


thread reminds me of the movie 'Go' with Timothy Olyphant;
Ronna: I need a favor.
Todd: Wow, I didn't know we'd become such good friends, because if we had, you'd know that I give head before I give favors and I don't even give my best friends head so your chances of getting a favor are pretty fucking slim.

No offence to the OP but I could just see these responses coming from a mile away.

Gerald
09-30-2015, 04:19 AM
Hello,


I'd rather not be protected from chargebacks than have my customers charged extra in order to protect less experienced girls who can't recognise a fraudulent client.

Nice, you are pretty much the first model arguing in this way. I would also much prefer something like these because it aligns our interests: with chargeback protection a model can take benefits of processing fraudulent clients and not care about it. Which would terrible for us. Though it would appear that "no chargeback protection" is a no go for most models.

What could be interesting maybe, would be to have it as an insurance to which one subscribe: if you tick-in "I want to be chargeback protected" then we add the extra 3-5% on your requested amounts for it.



you get 100% of what you ask for" business model, I really really do. Another site has it too (customs4you I think?). We're not getting 100% of what the guy is paying, you're charging him extra and it's just confusing for both parties.

Yes you are right about customs4u, they add 43% extra fee on top of models requested amount, which results in a 70% revshare.

Not that I particularly prefer this method, but I've noticed it is preferred overall. It is also the standard way to go in many mainstream marketplaces where you sell stuff, like AirBNB.

You could input either what you want to receive, and we'd tell you what the client will have to pay, or input what you want the customer to pay, and we'd tell you will receive.



So we're getting 75-85% of what they're paying. Not so confident about the 85% now? Is that because of your chargeback "insurance"?

You cannot calculate exactly like that, you have to adjust for the "on-top" effect.

If you want to receive $100, and we add 15% on-top, then we bill your customer $115. It results in 87% revshare.

If you want to receive $100, and we add 25% on-top, then we will your customer $125. It results in 80% revshare.

I'm still confident in the ~85%. Without protecting against chargebacks it is much easier to offer indeed.



There are plenty of fully established, popular sites that pay 75% AND provide traffic (CMD, Skyprivate, tributes on most clips sites including c4s, kinkbomb etc).

Here the goal would be only to propose a convenient and interesting payment method, it would not have traffic but a higher revenue share and features which those sites do not offer you: get payments from your website, recurring ones etc.

What payment processor do you currently use? Epoch? Do you have to pay the $500 / $1000 VISA / MC yearly registration fees?


What does those places you are mentioning communicate you about the customer? We would not process the sensible financial data, but we'd have the rest.



you are NEW [...] I don't know you and I don't trust you.

Well everyone has to get started, and it's pretty normal you do not trust me: you have no reason to. I am glad you still decided to engage with me and share about your experience. So thanks!

Hopefully when we have something to show, some models will notice it is made with attention to details and decide to give it a try, otherwise there won't be any review ever :D

Have a nice day,
Gérald

Aurora14
09-30-2015, 01:40 PM
I think your best bet would have been to come on THIS forum closer to your site going live. You could have laid out how the site works, answered/ made clarifications for any questions that arise, and contemplated/ implemented future site changes based on constructive criticism. Models would make their decision and either sign up or stick with their current options based on the info YOU give US. Right now we are commenting in circles about a completely hypothetical website that has 0 traffic.

Again, I think your best bet would have been to come on THIS forum closer to your site going live. This is not the only thread this has happened in. Threads about hypothetical/ work in progress sites get double the criticism (IMO) on this site because there isn't an actual working business model. That puts us in skeptical mode and we question EVERYTHING. Everyone wants to put in their two cents (myself included at one point) and have the features they like included to the final design.

At this point, I believe this thread is just causing confusion. At least I'm getting confused because in one post you have things going one way, then in another post, you will ask for approval on a change to the previous idea, then it changes again. I really don't care about 1/2 the stuff in this thread at this point because who knows if this site will ever get out of the developmental stage. I'm here for the snarky remarks and just waiting for the train to jump off the rails, sorry if I sound like an asshole.

Gerald
09-30-2015, 02:04 PM
Hello Aurora14,

No problem, your point is partially correct: talking later in the development process gives more results than now.

But I disagree when you say it's going in circle: the original discussion was about offering a form for receiving custom video requests while we are now talking about a payment solution. There has definitely been change occurring!

You and other models questioning everything is excellent for us! We are looking at what questions arise the more often, what is the order of priority, in a nutshell: we are learning a lot about how you think and see things. When everyone is putting his 2 cents, patterns can be noticed and that help us create a better software.

If you are confused about some stuff I'd be glad to clarify it for you?

Have a nice trip in train!

Gérald

scarlettbelle
09-30-2015, 05:04 PM
I think maybe one thing that I am failing to get across here is that you are NEW. You may have a website idea that encompasses all the positive aspects of my favourite sites and none of the negative aspects, but I don't know you and I don't trust you.

^^^This is really a huge part of the issue. That, plus this attitude towards us like we have no respect for our customers and no loyalty to the sites we're already working on makes me very cautious to get onboard here.

NO I will not send you my customers' private correspondence with me and NO I will not tell you how the small sites I work on function. And NO I would not send someone a pre-made video when they thought they were ordering a custom video for 10x the price!! Maybe I'm alone in this and maybe I'm crazy. But I am personally offended by the implications here.

audritwo
09-30-2015, 05:30 PM
What Scarlett said ^^

audritwo
09-30-2015, 06:11 PM
I want to add something about the "chargeback protection." How I protect myself from chargebacks is I require half of the payment for the video request upfront. Including payment for any special requested items. Then give me 3-4 days, and I'll let you know when the video is complete and send me the remainder when it is complete. Vid will be sent when I get authorization. It's usually the people with stolen credit cards or planing to chargeback who has a problem with this. It's easier to dispute one large charge instead of two smaller ones in the span of 3-4 days.

Guys will see this extra charge protection and some may get the wrong idea. I really don't see it as a smart way to go about things. With SM, I have no problem with the 35% because I'm protected by chargebacks.

scarlettbelle
09-30-2015, 07:04 PM
^^^That is really smart. I'd never thought about breaking it up into two payments like that but I may start doing it, especially with new guys.

Gerald
09-30-2015, 07:40 PM
@Scarlett sorry, I did not mean to show attitude!

Unless I am crazy, a guy who is paying for a custom does so because he believes it's a way for him to get something he'll truly like. If it happens to be you have already made something in the past (which is not accessible publicly) that will achieve this goal, I do not see it as disrespect.. I see it as being damn efficient! He might even be happier as he would get it quicker!

As for loyalty to sites, I am not sure to understand what you mean. Would you rather keep using a site which you worked with for years instead of a new site which could bring you better results, even if you knew for sure the new site would bring you better results?

I do not really understand either about the private communication, since I just wanted the anonymous text nor about refusing to share information about small sites you work this. Information is public, by relating your experience with it we can improve what you like / fix what is broken, and it's a big world out there: it's not because I start making business that LCMS will lose its own. So well, we see the world differently but I hope at some point you could trust me nonetheless!

scarlettbelle
10-01-2015, 12:49 AM
I find it morally wrong to send someone a pre-made video (which I usually charge $10 for) when they think they're purchasing a custom video and paying $100 for it. If someone sent me a custom request and I already had a similar video I would definitely offer it to them, but I would never lie to them about it. How is lying to your customers good business practice?!

What I mean by loyalty to sites is that I have an established relationship with the site owners, I'm happy with them, and I don't want to throw them under the bus. Would you seriously spread private info about a long-term business partner to some random new person?! I certainly wouldn't.

It seems like you don't understand the level of trust that exists between me and my customers. I have a feeling that no matter what I say, you won't get it, but I'll try. These men TRUST me and PAY ME to read their deepest fantasies and KEEP IT BETWEEN THE TWO OF US. There is no way in hell that I'm going to betray their trust to anyone, much less some rando on the internet.

Gerald
10-01-2015, 05:09 AM
Ok I kinda understand your point of view concerning custom videos. But would you really turn $100 and making the custom into $10 and sending a recorded video? That sounds anti-natural business wise, although it could definitely develop/maintain a high level of trust with the customer and hence get him purchase much more.

I do not think it's lying to a customer to sell them a video which achieves their desired goal, it is fulfilling his expectations and contractually sound - except if he plays extra for exclusivity -. Morale is not something I care much about, I got people annoying me every so often because of it, and I am sure you too!


Would you seriously spread private info about a long-term business partner to some random new person?

Private is the keyword there.. I have not been asking for private information, I have been asking for perfectly public info.


As for the trust, I think I understand partly. What you are saying totally makes sense, but I do not see how sharing information in an anonymous way would be betrayal: no one could know who it comes from, so no secret would be revealed and it would remain between the two of you. It is literally impossible to relate information you could share to people it could originate from.

Luna66
10-01-2015, 05:35 AM
Private is the keyword there.. I have not been asking for private information, I have been asking for perfectly public info.

You asked us for our PRIVATE email correspondence with our customers. That is 100% private and I wouldn't release it if you paid me.


Ok I kinda understand your point of view concerning custom videos. But would you really turn $100 and making the custom into $10 and sending a recorded video? That sounds anti-natural business wise

Business is all about money, but you cannot get money without a good reputation and trust. If you don't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.


Morale [he meant morals] is not something I care much about, I got people annoying me every so often because of it, and I am sure you too!

Well you've just put the nail in your own coffin there. I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever (get the point yet?) work with someone who doesn't care about morals. If you don't care about morals and only about money, what if one of my stalkers asked you for my real, private information (name, address etc) in exchange for a large amount of money? I would not trust you to say no to that offer. I've been trying to keep my cool here but how stupid do you have to be to admit to the models you intend to work with that you don't care about morals?! Fuck.

Gerald
10-01-2015, 11:19 AM
Hello,

I am sorry we are getting in this kind of a fight, it was definitely not my intention. Apologies.

It also proves poor communication skills on my end.


Would you consider selling the requests you saved maybe? (just the text, not the emails of course)

I really always asked for the body of the emails, never for any information that could allow to identify anyone. And I did not ask for your replies, nor the for the ongoing discussion. Just the requests initially sent.

From my perspective I do not see a big problem with that, but indeed it is your perspective which matters there as it is your emails.


Selling to a customer a video which fulfills his custom request, but was already existing - yet not publicly available - would not damage your business reputation as he could not know about it. Telling him you have a recorded one which should totally suit him and that you are willing to sell 10 times cheaper would indeed definitely improve your reputation though.


Thanks for correcting my spelling. I am not sure if the word "morals" holds exactly the same meaning in french and english, in french it designates an ensemble of judgments, rules of conduct related to good/evil, duties & values which a community has. If morals was the fundamental for business that would not be very great... as different groups of people could hardly deal together.

I care about contracts, enforcing them and being responsible for them. When a customer asks for a custom video, the contract/deal is that he should get a video matching ~exactly~ his requirements and he is willing to spend large amount of money for it. In that case selling an already made video fulfills the contract. From what I have read on Stripperweb, rarely are custom videos asking for "exclusivity", and in that case it comes at a premium. It changes the nature of the contract and what I proposed is unacceptable.

I've also read that models sell a custom video to a customer, and if it is not too custom (like moaning his name) then the video is also sold on clip stores. Why is this morally acceptable according to you?

The fact I would not sell, nor allow anyone in my company, to sell personal data about models signing up to our product will be written in a contract. If I were to breach it, but I won't, you should sue and tear me to pieces.


People have always been doing a lot of nasty shit in this world carrying around their morals and perspective on good or bad. I'd take someone caring about contracts and what he says he will do/not do for dealing over someone caring about his own moral and perspective on good or bad anytime.

laurielegs
10-01-2015, 01:34 PM
I've also read that models sell a custom video to a customer, and if it is not too custom (like moaning his name) then the video is also sold on clip stores. Why is this morally acceptable according to you?


Clients pay an extra charge if they want the clip to be exclusive. If this charge is not paid then it is understood the clip will be resold across all sites.

I'm amazed how clueless you are about the clip business. You do not even know the basics yet you are trying to start a business.

audritwo
10-01-2015, 03:19 PM
I really always asked for the body of the emails, never for any information that could allow to identify anyone. And I did not ask for your replies, nor the for the ongoing discussion. Just the requests initially sent.

THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. If you cannot understand that, I don't think it's a language barrier, you are just dense. Very very dense.
Because guess what, those emails are private. These are our private emails. justsometwat in post #4 actually gave you examples of emails we can expect. She was pretty satirical, but honestly that's 3 good examples of what we get.

If you weren't looking for a discussion, then you shouldn't of replied. Simple.
If you are not getting what you want from us, you should probably leave this thread to die in the backpages. Come back when you have your site ready, Let's see the finish product. Then that will be the real test



Welcome to SW, we grill everyone who has a business protestation because we are very business minded.

Luna66
10-01-2015, 03:30 PM
I really always asked for the body of the emails, never for any information that could allow to identify anyone. And I did not ask for your replies, nor the for the ongoing discussion. Just the requests initially sent.

That's still private information that my customers send in confidence, trusting me not to release it.


Selling to a customer a video which fulfills his custom request, but was already existing - yet not publicly available - would not damage your business reputation as he could not know about it.

There are a lot of things that banks, fast food restaurants and all types of businesses did that "wouldn't be found out" that got found out. Regardless of whether it would be found out or not, it's not the right thing to do. I wouldn't feel right with $100 in my pocket knowing that it should only be $10.


If morals was the fundamental for business that would not be very great... as different groups of people could hardly deal together.

There is one moral that is pretty much universal. Tell the truth.


When a customer asks for a custom video, the contract/deal is that he should get a video matching ~exactly~ his requirements and he is willing to spend large amount of money for it. In that case selling an already made video fulfills the contract.

Not true, the deal is he's getting FRESH content made specially for him.


I've also read that models sell a custom video to a customer, and if it is not too custom (like moaning his name) then the video is also sold on clip stores. Why is this morally acceptable according to you?

Because he knows it's happening!!! I give him the options of an exclusive or re-sellable custom video, he chooses re-sellable. He knows what's going on, he knows what he's paying for. Selling him a pre-made video and saying it's a "custom" is lying, he doesn't know it's happening and if he knew it was happening, my bet is he wouldn't be happy paying $100+ for it!

I 100% agree with LaurieLegs, you need to do more research. But I don't think that will help, having no morals is a pretty big hurdle to jump over. I certainly don't ever intend to work with you, I think your business will fail and i'm mad at myself for spending so much time crafting helpful responses in this thread to someone who's not taking any of it on board.

justsometwat
10-01-2015, 04:10 PM
Because guess what, those emails are private. These are our private emails. justsometwat in post #4 actually gave you examples of emails we can expect. She was pretty satirical, but honestly that's 3 good examples of what we get.

The sad thing is that no matter how weird what I said was, I have and I know others have gotten emails very similar to the weird as examples I wrote about.

Hell, I got one email that the guy wanted me to pretend to be an alien woman, running through an alleyway while being chased by someone, then they "shoot" me with a gun and take my limp body to their home where they tie me up while they molest me and bring in another woman to molest me. He wanted full costumes, outdoor filming, and a third person to join. He wanted all of it filmed like a syfy movie, complete with full dialogue. It was literally a 5 page long script. He thought $20 was good enough.

42762

I wasn't going to say anything else in this thread, but him repeatedly mentioning ACF set me off. If they are so helpful there, then why doesn't he stay there? I was on that forum for a few years and ended up deleting my account after being attacked repeatedly for no reason. It's fucking toxic over there, so I am shocked he's being greeted with open arms.

I don't tell people that I am going to resell their custom videos. In the ~5 years I have been doing this only three people have ever asked for me not to resell their videos. When I told them that I charge a lot more for that, they told me if was fine and I was able to sell the video at no extra cost to them. They are my videos, the person might be emailing me with their script or requests, but I did all of the work on them. I think 99% of customers know you're going to resell them and its not a big deal to them. They don't care, they actually want us to make more money on our videos!

Gerald
10-02-2015, 09:11 AM
Clients pay an extra charge if they want the clip to be exclusive. If this charge is not paid then it is understood the clip will be resold across all sites.

I'm amazed how clueless you are about the clip business. You do not even know the basics yet you are trying to start a business.


I know that. It's even written in my post..

The point of the question was: if customs purchased by customer are not exclusive (except when a premium is paid for), why would a custom video have to be made exclusively for the customer requesting it (except when a premium is paid for)? There is the making of it, and the distribution of it.

I thought it's ok to sell the guy something you've made for someone else originally, is not publicly available, and fulfills his request. As it is ok to sell the guy something you've made specially for him and then distribute it publicly. I understand that this is not the case from models' perspective, which I am fine with. I guess the problem comes from the meaning of the word "custom". If it was called something like "on demand video", i.e. getting a video which fulfills your demand, it'd be fine.



THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. If you cannot understand that, I don't think it's a language barrier, you are just dense. Very very dense.

I understand you have a problem with it, no problem!



If you weren't looking for a discussion, then you shouldn't of replied. Simple.

I'm looking for discussion and learning about how you see things. It's not getting me much love so far, but it is very insightful. I got to know more about the different types of requests and your perspective on the business.



There is one moral that is pretty much universal. Tell the truth.

Seriously? No.

People went on crusades and stuff with conception like those.

There's been communities where cannibalism was moral. Moral is just values we create/choose for ourselves, as we all live together we have developed kind of "standard pack of value": a kinda classic, usual moral which is widely accepted. That makes you think there is an universal moral, but it's false.

I most certainly have my own and personal moral, like pretty much everyone who can think. And respecting contracts is a big part of it.



I wasn't going to say anything else in this thread, but him repeatedly mentioning ACF set me off. If they are so helpful there, then why doesn't he stay there? I was on that forum for a few years and ended up deleting my account after being attacked repeatedly for no reason. It's fucking toxic over there, so I am shocked he's being greeted with open arms.

I mentioned ACF two times in one post so to explain to Luna66 why I was talking about recurring payments when she commented that this does not make any sense in regard to custom videos.

I'm engaging with models wherever I am giving the chance, why would I "stay there" ?! But I would not say I am being greeted with open arms there either :D Me think I am not proving so good at communicating with models so far, but I'll get there. Eventually. Maybe.

It would appear there are some tensions between the two forums though! Some model over there made the same kind of comments about me mentioning ACF on Stripperweb lol

Luna66
10-02-2015, 09:37 AM
I thought it's ok to sell the guy something you've made for someone else originally, is not publicly available, and fulfills his request. As it is ok to sell the guy something you've made specially for him and then distribute it publicly. I understand that this is not the case from models' perspective, which I am fine with. I guess the problem comes from the meaning of the word "custom". If it was called something like "on demand video", i.e. getting a video which fulfills your demand, it'd be fine.

No the problem comes because in one case HE KNOWS ABOUT IT and in the other HE DOESN'T! It would be LYING for profit! I don't lie to my customers! How many times do I have to say it? Jesus Christ you are absolutely impossible.

justsometwat
10-02-2015, 10:56 AM
This is why I didn't want to be in this thread anymore, as time goes on and people ask legitimate questions you've gotten more snarky (yea, I said it again) about how you answer. It's gotten to the point where you seem to be more defensive and irritated about the feedback you're being given.

If you think that it would be okay for a model to get paid for a custom video, then send him a video that she made for someone else that was meant to be exclusive and there's no problem, then what percentage you pay your models or if you have chargebacks covered will be the least of your worries.