View Full Version : Minimum Wage
Selina M
12-17-2015, 09:16 PM
^ Wasn't trying to say you were being *judgmental* if that makes sense!
What income you're comfortable on is all relative to spending habits and discipline. I'll come right out and say that, as mentioned in a prior post, I make peanuts for a stripper (about what I would make using my 1st degree at an entry level position), It's a verrrrrrry part-time job meant to pay the bills while I finish school that lets me work 9-10 hours a week instead of 40+. I'm fine on that kind of income because I have an SO (so basically dual income household), I'm Scrooge McDuck, and he is now Scrooge McDuck in training :D
On the flip side, I work with dancers who probably make at least 2x what I do, have roommates, work 4-5 nights a week so theoretically have little time to blow the money, yet are still always broke and "Oh em gee the rent is due, I HAVE to make $500 tonight!" They are driving Audis with $600 payments and do a full-on shopping spree every week. I doubt those girls would be 'comfortable' on any level of income because they haven't learned to save any of it and thus remain in a constant state of financial panic every 1st-3rd of the month.
ScarletKitten
12-18-2015, 04:27 PM
The whole point of stripping is to get OUT of the minimum wage/ poverty cycle. So, NO, I would NOT strip for minimum wage. That would defeat the entire purpose of why I started stripping in the first place.
gameover
12-19-2015, 08:50 AM
The whole point of stripping is to get OUT of the minimum wage/ poverty cycle. So, NO, I would NOT strip for minimum wage. That would defeat the entire purpose of why I started stripping in the first place.
I understand that. But, if money were to drop down for you to where you were effectively only earning what you would make working a full time minimum wage job, would you keep dancing or take a minimum wage job? Does the club environment, drinking at work, shorter hours, setting own hours aspects outweigh the challenges of the job, dealing with customers, etc?
simone87
12-19-2015, 09:02 AM
idk where y'all live where the stigma is gone, but where i'm from ( and its actually a pretty liberal part of the US) its still goin strong! puritanical beliefs about sex are SOO entrenched in america's collective consciousness that i find it more and more hopeless that even within 100 years sex workers will be treated as equals in this country.
and as to your question…FUCK NO. would i agree to get groped and fondled without my consent, have my earnings leeched away by glorified pimp strip club owners, continue to have to lie about my profession or else face being ostracized by friends and society in general, wear my body out, wear my psyche out, and show my bare ass pussy to any stranger who walks in for something i could slacking off at a donut shop?? hahahahaha. no
gameover
12-19-2015, 01:33 PM
idk where y'all live where the stigma is gone, but where i'm from ( and its actually a pretty liberal part of the US) its still goin strong! puritanical beliefs about sex are SOO entrenched in america's collective consciousness that i find it more and more hopeless that even within 100 years sex workers will be treated as equals in this country.
and as to your question…FUCK NO. would i agree to get groped and fondled without my consent, have my earnings leeched away by glorified pimp strip club owners, continue to have to lie about my profession or else face being ostracized by friends and society in general, wear my body out, wear my psyche out, and show my bare ass pussy to any stranger who walks in for something i could slacking off at a donut shop?? hahahahaha. no
Fair enough. But your location says New England. That actually is one of the more conservative places in the country when it comes to sex. The strip clubs in Boston were pretty tame compared to the rest of the country, the last time I visited. Remember, the puritans settled in New England.
So, I appreciate your feedback, and I understand your position. I was just saying that New England, while very liberal, is very conservative when it comes to sex, compared to other places in the country. My current favorite club has just added three new dancers who used to be waitresses. So at least, in my area of the country, I"m not seeing much stigma.
ScarletKitten
12-19-2015, 02:50 PM
I understand that. But, if money were to drop down for you to where you were effectively only earning what you would make working a full time minimum wage job, would you keep dancing or take a minimum wage job? Does the club environment, drinking at work, shorter hours, setting own hours aspects outweigh the challenges of the job, dealing with customers, etc?
No. I would rather work fast food again than dance for minimum wage. As Simone pointed out, the wear and tear on the body and mind, the hiding your job from others, the lack of a paycheck and benefits, having to pay house fees & buying your own outfits, being groped and molested, putting up with drunk scumbag customers trying to finger you, and all other risks associated with being a stripper would not be worth it for minimum wage. Also, I do not enjoy drinking anymore, not even in my free time. So that is not a pro for me either. Also, if I was only making minimum wage as a stripper, the shorter hours would no longer exist. I would have to work at the club 40+ hours a week just to survive on those wages, so shorter hours would no longer be a pro. The only pro left would be self-employment, and that really wouldn't be a pro anymore either, because busting your ass as a minimum wage stripper sounds like the most depressing thing I've ever heard. Just being blunt.
gameover
12-19-2015, 03:28 PM
No. I would rather work fast food again than dance for minimum wage. As Simone pointed out, the wear and tear on the body and mind, the hiding your job from others, the lack of a paycheck and benefits, having to pay house fees & buying your own outfits, being groped and molested, putting up with drunk scumbag customers trying to finger you, and all other risks associated with being a stripper would not be worth it for minimum wage. Also, I do not enjoy drinking anymore, not even in my free time. So that is not a pro for me either. Also, if I was only making minimum wage as a stripper, the shorter hours would no longer exist. I would have to work at the club 40+ hours a week just to survive on those wages, so shorter hours would no longer be a pro. The only pro left would be self-employment, and that really wouldn't be a pro anymore either, because busting your ass as a minimum wage stripper sounds like the most depressing thing I've ever heard. Sounds like a recipe for suicide, actually. Just being blunt.
I hope the earning potential stays good for you all as dancers. I guess as a customer, I just see it like going to Disneyland--the happiest place on earth. :) I guess for the guy sweating inside the dwarf costume on an 80 degree day, even Disneyland isn't such a great place.
rickdugan
12-19-2015, 04:46 PM
Fair enough. But your location says New England. That actually is one of the more conservative places in the country when it comes to sex. The strip clubs in Boston were pretty tame compared to the rest of the country, the last time I visited. Remember, the puritans settled in New England.
So, I appreciate your feedback, and I understand your position. I was just saying that New England, while very liberal, is very conservative when it comes to sex, compared to other places in the country. My current favorite club has just added three new dancers who used to be waitresses. So at least, in my area of the country, I"m not seeing much stigma.
As a native of New England, I am reasonably confident in saying that New Englanders have wild and varied sex as much as anyone else. There are also as many adult novelty stores and boutiques as you will likely find anywhere else. The issue has to do with how New Englanders judge public personas and behaviors. New Englanders, and I really mean folks from MA (the worst), VT, NH and ME (since things aren't quite as bad in RI and CT) are quick to pass judgment on those who do not live what they view to be an acceptable public facing lifestyle. So, in that context, stripping for a living will fall squarely into the heavy judgment zone. This very same aversion to public displays of unacceptable behavior also extends to strip clubs as a whole and escorts, which is why both have had their share of issues in the 4 states mentioned above.
But with all of that said, I don't think that the stigmatization of sex workers is limited to New England by any wild stretch of the imagination, even if it is very bad there in some ways. You'll find it in other parts of the northeast and in several bible belt states. I don't know enough about other areas of the country to opine as readily, but I cannot imagine that this isn't an issue elsewhere as well.
Selina M
12-19-2015, 08:50 PM
I understand that. But, if money were to drop down for you to where you were effectively only earning what you would make working a full time minimum wage job, would you keep dancing or take a minimum wage job? Does the club environment, drinking at work, shorter hours, setting own hours aspects outweigh the challenges of the job, dealing with customers, etc?
I would agree with ScarletKitten, no WAY would I dance for minimum wage.
Re: your perks listed: The only part of the club environment I like is going on stage and being tipped for that, and when I land a pleasant/fun customer who drops a couple hundred by himself. If I could make the hourly dancing I do anywhere else, I would have left long ago. I don't drink at work so nix that. Shorter hours & setting your own gets negated immediately if you make minimum wage bc you'd pretty much have to work 40 hours a week anyway to survive on a poverty level.
The only way I would ever consider dancing for anything less than my average hourly would be to be a stage-only dancer or something... and even when I was a go-go dancer for $25/hr, it felt like nowhere near enough pay for the physical work.
gameover
12-20-2015, 08:32 AM
As a native of New England, I am reasonably confident in saying that New Englanders have wild and varied sex as much as anyone else. There are also as many adult novelty stores and boutiques as you will likely find anywhere else. The issue has to do with how New Englanders judge public personas and behaviors. New Englanders, and I really mean folks from MA (the worst), VT, NH and ME (since things aren't quite as bad in RI and CT) are quick to pass judgment on those who do not live what they view to be an acceptable public facing lifestyle. So, in that context, stripping for a living will fall squarely into the heavy judgment zone. This very same aversion to public displays of unacceptable behavior also extends to strip clubs as a whole and escorts, which is why both have had their share of issues in the 4 states mentioned above.
But with all of that said, I don't think that the stigmatization of sex workers is limited to New England by any wild stretch of the imagination, even if it is very bad there in some ways. You'll find it in other parts of the northeast and in several bible belt states. I don't know enough about other areas of the country to opine as readily, but I cannot imagine that this isn't an issue elsewhere as well.
I'm not saying that there is no stigma to stripping. I'm saying that it is greatly reduced from what it used to be. Such that many more women are open to dancing. I'm sure the down economy plays a factor, but the level of stigma does not seem to prevent women from entering dancing as it once did. My current club typically has 15-18 dancers on day shift! It is a small club. Some women waitress at the club while they wait for space to open up for another dancer. Frankly, the club probably shouldn't even have 10 dancers on days given the crowds. In the past, clubs seemed to struggle to find dancers, in my experience.
ScarletKitten
12-20-2015, 07:52 PM
43680
^^This says it all, lol. ;D
simone87
12-20-2015, 08:44 PM
well before moving to New england, i lived in the south so anything is going to look liberal compared to the bible belt lol. i dont think that girls are going to clubs more because the stigma is gone, i think its the economy. the girls i worked with almost all took great precautions about hiding what they did for a living, and some refused to be put on the books because they were so freaked out. that's just been my experience, i haven't lived on the west coast so maybe its way different there.
Aurora14
12-21-2015, 12:01 AM
I understand that. But, if money were to drop down for you to where you were effectively only earning what you would make working a full time minimum wage job, would you keep dancing or take a minimum wage job? Does the club environment, drinking at work, shorter hours, setting own hours aspects outweigh the challenges of the job, dealing with customers, etc?
No way would I dance if it dropped to minimum wage. It was one thing when I only worked once a week and made what vanilla workers make in a week, but now I work 4 long days and expect fair compensation. I have no clue what I'm going to do when I retire from dancing in (hopefully) 10-15 years. I'm spoiled at this point and don't know how I would adjust to vanilla minimum wage work. I guess I can always go back to being a pharmacy tech. I'd be dealing with the same customers, more hours, and less vacations, but at least I'd get to keep my clothes on.
gameover
12-21-2015, 11:32 AM
well before moving to New england, i lived in the south so anything is going to look liberal compared to the bible belt lol. i dont think that girls are going to clubs more because the stigma is gone, i think its the economy. the girls i worked with almost all took great precautions about hiding what they did for a living, and some refused to be put on the books because they were so freaked out. that's just been my experience, i haven't lived on the west coast so maybe its way different there.
Well, the economy must be really bad, because I think the dancers outnumber the customers by 2 to 1 on most days in my club.
rickdugan
12-21-2015, 12:18 PM
Well, the economy must be really bad, because I think the dancers outnumber the customers by 2 to 1 on most days in my club.
More girls turning to edgier activities (including dancing) to make ends meet and fewer customers going to clubs are exactly the types of conditions that develop when the economy sours.
Honestly gameover I'm not sure how you are getting to this notion that the stigma is gone just because your small club has a few more dancers now. In fact, strip clubs (and by extension, strippers) and escorting are both under assault in a number of areas right now. Also, most strippers that I talk to continue to use cover stories for their jobs (waitress and bartender being the most popular) and are currently no more willing to tell the parents of their kids' classmates what they do for work than they were a few years ago - and for good reason.
Tourdefranzia
12-23-2015, 02:24 PM
I'm not saying that there is no stigma to stripping. I'm saying that it is greatly reduced from what it used to be. Such that many more women are open to dancing. I'm sure the down economy plays a factor, but the level of stigma does not seem to prevent women from entering dancing as it once did. My current club typically has 15-18 dancers on day shift! It is a small club. Some women waitress at the club while they wait for space to open up for another dancer. Frankly, the club probably shouldn't even have 10 dancers on days given the crowds. In the past, clubs seemed to struggle to find dancers, in my experience.
Blue collar work doesn't pay what it used to, so girls who are ambitious, pretty enough, and not afraid of expressing themselves sexually will crunch the numbers and choose dancing over other low skill jobs.
The stigma is about as harsh as it has always been in regard to sex workers. The difference is that women are less inclined to feel like they "need" a husband. Even when I was in my 20's (1990's) there was a huge societal pressure to get married. Living together with a romantic partner was still highly frowned upon, and couples would have have to lie about romantic status to avoid being evicted from apartments or rental housing.
Very few men would have been interested in dating a stripper in the 1990's. Booty-call? Sure. But any serious romantic relationship would require the stripper to pick between boyfriend or career. Today, men are a lot more open minded about a woman's sexual history.
Nowadays, saving yourself for marriage is kind of weird and reserved for the devoutly religious. When I was a teen and early 20's it was mainstream. I always lied about my number of partners. After my 21st birthday, I lost count, so I'd just say I'd been with 3 partners (this month, lol!).
Omegaphallic
12-23-2015, 03:03 PM
I think the process of removing the stigma from most people has began, but its going to be hard because alot of women are still threated by sex workers, especially if they're insecure or if they they found out that they husband, boufriend, father ect... has been using thier services.
Naida
12-23-2015, 06:05 PM
I'm one of those middle of the road girls.
I enjoy pole dancing, and stripping in general, enough that I'd probably still do it for minimum wage based on what I put up with AT THE CLUB (emphasis will be explained momentarily.) All the perks are still there even though the money would be gone. The flexible scheduling. Getting paid to party rather than the opposite. I rarely have major issues with customers, etc. As far as I'm concerned, any job worth doing is worth doing it for minimum. Basically, if you're not happy enough with it to accept low pay for it, you are probably in the wrong line of work. On the flip side, what I put up with at the club is only one part of the equation. There is also the OoP costs involved with dancing, like makeup/hair and outfits. Let's not forget all the stigma involved too. No matter how much I love a job, I'm going to expect higher pay if it's impacting my personal life.
I quit dancing again (the first time I've done so voluntarily) two months ago because money in the hill country just isn't worth it. I make about 2/3 waitressing as I was in the clubs I tried, and I'm averaging about $11/hr after taxes. When I worked in Houston and made (at minimum) $25/hr, I was more than happy to put up with the OTC bullshit that comes with dancing. Here, not so much. It paid my bills, but did not leave me enough leftover to justify the strain it was putting on my relationships since going back.
If some girls are happy working dirt cheap, more power to them. I'll stick to vanilla jobs until I have a vehicle reliable enough to commute to better paying cities.
ScarletKitten
12-24-2015, 04:25 PM
By the way, I wanted to mention that- there were some nights I worked when I made minimum wage or less. One night I only made my house fee back, which means I profited zero. So, I'm not saying that every night is going to be a great money-making night. But the more profitable nights outweighed the minimum wage nights. So it's all about what your weekly/monthly earnings come to, instead of basing it off of what you make in just one night.
I wasn't trying to shame the girls who work in low-money clubs or in low-money areas. Some girls are okay making $100/night or less. Some have no other choice- they are just trying to survive.
But me personally, I would quit dancing for good if every single night was a minimum wage night. I do not blame others who would keep going on low pay. Actually, I admire those girls who can dance for less than $100/night and still keep up the energy and momentum to do so. It takes a very strong woman to do that. I burned out fast when my earnings went down, so I quit dancing for a while. Thankfully I had other options show up in my life.
gameover
12-27-2015, 09:11 PM
By the way, I wanted to mention that- there were some nights I worked when I made minimum wage or less. One night I only made my house fee back, which means I profited zero. So, I'm not saying that every night is going to be a great money-making night. But the more profitable nights outweighed the minimum wage nights. So it's all about what your weekly/monthly earnings come to, instead of basing it off of what you make in just one night.
I wasn't trying to shame the girls who work in low-money clubs or in low-money areas. Some girls are okay making $100/night or less. Some have no other choice- they are just trying to survive.
But me personally, I would quit dancing for good if every single night was a minimum wage night. I do not blame others who would keep going on low pay. Actually, I admire those girls who can dance for less than $100/night and still keep up the energy and momentum to do so. It takes a very strong woman to do that. I burned out fast when my earnings went down, so I quit dancing for a while. Thankfully I had other options show up in my life.
I appreciate what you are saying, and I agree with you. But, I see some girls who appear to just like working at the club because they can party while they get paid, no matter how much it is.
Vyanka
12-27-2015, 09:49 PM
I appreciate what you are saying, and I agree with you. But, I see some girls who appear to just like working at the club because they can party while they get paid, no matter how much it is.
Lol. That's a lie. It's a front they have to put on, no matter how bad the night is. Our job is to fake it in front of everyone.
arielbriel
12-27-2015, 11:31 PM
I could never justify orchestrating a second life for min wage.
gameover
12-28-2015, 10:12 AM
Lol. That's a lie. It's a front they have to put on, no matter how bad the night is. Our job is to fake it in front of everyone.
I'm sure that's true for most. But I see some that seem to "fake" it a lot, at least on days while I'm there. :)
minnow
12-30-2015, 01:51 PM
I appreciate what you are saying, and I agree with you. But, I see some girls who appear to just like working at the club because they can party while they get paid, no matter how much it is.
I'm sure that's true for most. But I see some that seem to "fake" it a lot, at least on days while I'm there. :)
Gameover, just keep asking the question long enough, or rehashing the same point from enough angles, maybe some day you'll get the answer that you're looking for: "Yes, I'm an unapologetic party girl who loves to hang out with any young dude that can rub two nickels together, even if I just make minimum wage."
That said, I've noticed that in my semi-regular visits to several different clubs are hit or miss for finding the hot dancers. Yet it seems like the "wallflowers" are there virtually every single time. You know, the ones with their arms folded and pouting face. I imagine they're in 5 days/week, at least 6 hour shift, barely clearing 3 figures. Meanwhile the hot ones cherry pick a couple of 4 hour slots per week, and make 4 figures.
I say "imagine", because I'm not one to pry into dancer affairs, nor count who's doing what with whom. (Though I have a basic awareness level of who is consistently busy, and who isn't.) I mainly concentrate on finding the dancer(s) who can provide the most enjoyment for me, period.:)
SweetJulia
12-31-2015, 03:22 AM
^Yeah, seriously-someone please just say it so hrs happy and doesn't keep insisting he knows what goes on in our heads better than us.
Selina M
12-31-2015, 05:53 PM
^ I'll bite, he may have a point with some girls. In dicking around on FB, it just algorithm'd me to the profiles of some of the new girls at my club, who NEVER sell any dances and camp with customers for hours to drink. Judging by their 1000+ followers on FB and constant 'checking in' to the club, they do seem to think it's just a popularity contest and party.
Whatever! More money on the floor for the rest of us!
kirakonstantin
02-03-2016, 03:42 AM
Some women might. I am not one of those women.
Tourdefranzia
02-03-2016, 01:55 PM
I'm sure that's true for most. But I see some that seem to "fake" it a lot, at least on days while I'm there. :)
Obviously, some girls have to be in that lower 10% of earners. I bet you won't see them in the club for months or years on end. They'll have to figure out how to make a living or move on to another career.
I knew a dancer who didn't make money dancing, but figured out which video poker machine was due to payout through observation. People would call her "lucky" to hit a jackpot several times a week on the machines. Customers would also pay her for that information. She would likely LOVE the idea of getting minimum wage, it would be good seed money for playing the machines.
blondhottie
02-04-2016, 07:32 AM
It would take a lot more than minimum wage for me to go back to dancing. The social stigma that we have to deal with, working late nights, feet killing at the end of the night, rude, grabby assholes, etc. I agree that there will always be women who are willing to dance for little money. Some women live with their husbands or boyfriends who are the main breadwinners and therefore, they don't need the money and their earnings are for savings or fun money. Others like being able to set their own schedule and don't want to adhere to a strict schedule that some vanilla jobs have.