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HaydenBlue
11-10-2015, 01:23 PM
Another vote for Katy's studio. She is fantastic and trustworthy, I'd def. sign up if she was with the site.

justanothercamgirl
11-10-2015, 02:06 PM
Hello everyone. I'm Doc. I'm the admin/ owner/ resident nerd over at MyFetishLIVE. I'm happy to answer any and all questions. So far I see two that I'll answer.

Firstly- Da Rules: The short answer. This is a work in progress, but generally pretty good guidelines. We're a bit more liberal than most sites, even the old Kink Live.
43231
• Extreme violence, blood (real or fake), use of weapons, especially knives, is prohibited.
• No drug use. This includes alcohol and marijuana, even from locations where it is legal. We feel that having a glass of wine while you’re camming is fine. You just can’t drink alcohol while you’re in frame. Obvious drunkenness on cam is never acceptable. You can drink nonalcoholic beverages on frame. We suggest any beverages be put in a cup where it is not obvious as to its contents, nor should you elaborate on its contents to your viewers. Read into that however you'd like.
• Obscenity- acts that have been found to be obscene in various jurisdictions include but are not limited to: vomiting, defecation, fisting, having animals on cam (including pets). Most of these are pretty straight forward as to why they are not acceptable.
• Visible urination is not acceptable in public chat. Urination on another person while on cam is never acceptable.
• No choking or asphyxiation.
• Wax play is acceptable, provided that the wax is not red. This one seems silly, but there’s a reason behind it. Melted red wax “simulates” blood, which is not acceptable. Do not remove wax from the body with a knife.
• Portraying oneself as under the age of 18 is never acceptable. AB/DL shows are acceptable, provided that you choose your wording carefully. Certain words can’t be said in profiles or in chat.
 “Take me private and I’ll act like a baby” is not acceptable.
 “Take me private and let’s indulge your diaper fantasies” is acceptable.
• Sleeping, passed out, chloroform, mind control, hypnosis, rape, and abductions scenes are not acceptable. Basically anything that is falls under the category of consensual nonconsent is not permitted, even if it is only simulated.
• Forced orgasms are not allowed. The action of causing someone to have an orgasm is acceptable. The issue is with the term “forced.” We prefer the term “highly compelled” orgasms instead.
• Violating anyone’s copyright or intellectual property is never permitted. Aside from the obvious, this basically this means that any logos of companies that might not be happy to be associated with the acts you’re performing should not be shown.

Edit: Another point I'd like to make here, is that my cam site is different than a lot of others. I've had a couple problems already with a model or two. The basic notion here, is that this is a Premium cam site, and members pay top dollar for fetish and bdsm content. As this is a new site, we're in the process of molding and growing the site "culture." Freeloaders and beggars are not to be tolerated. However, freeloaders and beggars learn to freeload and beg, when models do stuff in public chat for free. Thus far, we have very few beggars on our site if any. I've only seen one or two, in the two weeks we've been live, and I'm on the site pretty much all day. So... my general rule of thumb, while I do not want to restrict your show, keep it classy in public, and get down and dirty in private, because we are in the process of TEACHING our members to be good members. Most of them are already, but as we grow, we need to ensure that new members don't pick up bad habits that I don't want on the site- disrespect, begging, freeloading, etc.

Model referral program- we have a customer referral link for models to give out. That give an extra 10% above the standard 50% cut. I don't have anything in place about referring other models at the moment. It's theoretically possible, but I'm not sure if adding an extra affiliate level would kick the site into the realm of "no longer sustainable." I'll need a bit of time to see how things go and if I have the wiggle room, I may add something like that in.

I don't mean to threadjack but I just wanted to squee at your image choice. :)

justanothercamgirl
11-10-2015, 02:08 PM
Oh yes, and I adore Katy's studio. I vote for her as well.

I got distracted by the shiny cute jpg there for a second.

thegooddoctor
11-10-2015, 03:04 PM
Bank or wire transfer would also work for me (and a lot of us) and perhaps give us the choice of $500 limit with 'you' swallowing the fee or a lower limit with 'us' swallowing the fee? Simple ticky boxes to choose from (across all the payment methods) when cashing out each time.

Honestly, I'd really prefer not to do wires. They're super expensive, and I don't want to have to pass that along to models, though I may have to (as that seems to be a fairly standard practice). Paxum just is so much faster and cheaper.

I'm still arguing with Payoneer. MAYBE I can get through to them to let me slide. They did email me this morning, so they haven't completely told me to fuck off yet.


Erm, one question though...why aren't you guys allowed to post in CC? That's a bit worrying.

Meh. I'm ok with it. It gives you a place to kibbitz without us nasty men getting in the way. This is fine for me.


They are completely legit. i've been with them for 5 years on various sites with no issues. There are over 3,000 performers on their books across different sites. There is nothing 'shady' about him or about daily pay at all. 4 years ago now someone who also runs a group took issue with them on a personal level and set about discrediting them on this forum (I know this because i witnessed all of it). At the time Collin was actually posting here as a female as males can't post in camming connection. That's why he was banned. Since then a lot of misinformation has flown about, admittedly not helped by his flippant attitude to customer service which is shall we say... lacking sometimes! However as stated above, I have received daily pay and worked closely with Collin for a number of years now and trust him and the company completely. He is not exaggerating numbers at all, there are a number of top webcam performers (who are also famous in other areas) on daily pay, and I myself earn big numbers on a regular basis (and I am not a top performer by any means). If you want to talk to me further about any of this please do send a private message as there are many who prefer not to discuss DP here for the reasons stated above.

UK daily pay is a lot easier for us UK models, as we can only get Paxum through the US one as far as I know.

I have actually begun the process for a paxum account now anyway as I just noticed one of the member's here posted some pretty comprehensive info a while back about uK girls and paxum so I'll see how it goes.

I have 0 tolerance for bullshit. I'm going to need to think long and hard about this guy. I've heard far more negatives than positives, and that's usually not a good sign.


Please don't confuse Colin's studio with Katy. Their studios definitely are not related.

I would be on the site a LOT more if Katy offers transfers to her studio.

I'm not. Those were two separate statements. I just got off of the phone with Katy. Very nice lady. We're going to work well together, I think.


I signed up. Waiting for my approval email now. :)

Are the kink dollar amounts and our payout percentages listed somewhere?

I also support working with Boleyn Models. Absolutely the only trustworthy studio I've ever worked with.

1 Kink = 1 USD. I'm still working on the model manual. It's a pretty comprehensive document. I'm always available to answer questions.


I do also have another question though, are you protected against the things that made the old KL fall? I know they started out offering 60% and then didn't generate enough revenue so had to have tiered systems of payments and then eventually went under financially, so do you have some sort of a system that ensures that people aren't using dodgy credit cards, and where models are protected from chargebacks but at the same time measures in place for yourself so that charge backs and bad payments don't cripple you? I mean without obviously going into too much public detail, are you covered?

I'm super paranoid about fraud. I have multiple checks in place to curtail it, and I scrub my transactions daily.


I don't mean to threadjack but I just wanted to squee at your image choice. :)

I love that show.

RaineyLane
11-10-2015, 04:16 PM
I signed up and am excited about this. KL was my jam for 2 years and I did very well considering the hours put into it and I didn't usually split cam with another site. Been doing well on SM, but miss the higher payout and quality clientele that KL had to offer. Every camgirl needs at least 2 reliable sites and this looks like a perfect fit for my second site! I'm gonna try streaming tonight- looks like I've been approved. :)

KatyBoleyn
11-10-2015, 06:12 PM
Thank you for all the votes, and by popular demand we're doing this :)

We know a lot of performers went completely off the sites and into a "clips only" mode for fetishes since KL went down, and this looks like it will fit the niche market very well. TheGoodDoctor and us had a great conversation and we look forward to adding MyFetishLive to our program.


...Since there is no payment method for us UK gals as yet I can't sign up:( But i'll watch this thread for updates. thanks for answering all our questions.

We'll have it up and running with US direct deposit, Payoneer and Payoneer GBT (if you already have it from somewhere else it works - tested and true), and Paxum...starting about right now.

RaineyLane
11-10-2015, 06:22 PM
Just putting out there for a modest model referral idea. It's actually what they did on the old KL. If you referred a model that signed up and worked the site, you would receive a $50 bonus AFTER the new model made $500 for the site. It's a one-time bonus and it's only 10% of the model's first $500 earned for the site. Something to consider. :)

sexysusie
11-10-2015, 09:04 PM
I have 0 tolerance for bullshit. I'm going to need to think long and hard about this guy. I've heard far more negatives than positives, and that's usually not a good sign.

Glad to see my experience and opinion mean absolutely nothing to you! I mean, I've only been camming for 5 years (and with daily pay that long!) what the heck do i know right? I was interested in signing up, but now i'm not. Sites these days should be offering a lot more than 50% anyway! Good luck with everything.

thegooddoctor
11-11-2015, 02:28 AM
Glad to see my experience and opinion mean absolutely nothing to you! I mean, I've only been camming for 5 years (and with daily pay that long!) what the heck do i know right? I was interested in signing up, but now i'm not. Sites these days should be offering a lot more than 50% anyway! Good luck with everything.

Look, lady. I was going to be nice about this, but you just poked the bear. I'm glad to hear that YOU'VE had good experiences but others did not, and one good experience doesn't make up for a whole boatload of bad ones. You could go to a restaurant 50 times, but if you get some nasty food poisoning, I'd bet you'd think twice about eating there again. The fact of the matter is that I didn't get a good vibe off the guy, and others confirmed my suspicions. I have the right to work or not work with *whomever* I choose. It's my company and my prerogative. But what do I know? I've only been working in BUSINESS side of the adult industry for 7 years. That's great that you've been camming for 5 years. but judging from your comment about the percentages, it's obvious that you have absolutely no concept of the size of the machine that it takes to make a cam site run. I'd love to give my models more than 50%, but it's just not economically feasible. There are cam sites that PROMISE you'll make 70% or 90% or the laughable 100%, but you never actually get those numbers. I'm at least being honest when I say how much my models make. But to make an analogy, it's kind of like those old computers from the 50's that take up an entire room. Massive machine, tiny little terminal window. That's the part that YOU see as a model, but I've been working inside the big black box longer than you have been sitting at the terminal, so don't you be condescending with me, miss, because you don't know me.

However, I'm feeling a bit magnanimous, so I'll give you a math lesson to break it down for you.

We start with 100%. So, let's make this simple and call that $1, made up of 100 pennies.

First thing's first. Credit card processing. On average, that's 15% off the top. 100 - 15 = 85%

Then there's affiliates. People who own websites that send traffic over to the site. I pay them a paltry 15%. Most sites pay affiliates a lot better, so they send better traffic. but let's stick with my lowball number of 15%. 85 - 15 = 70%

Then there's marketing, advertising, hosting, bandwidth, all the miscellaneous costs of doing business. That's about another 10%. 70 - 10 = 60%.

Now I finally get to pay my models out at my (according to you) insulting rate of 50%. Let's ignore the fact that I pay over double what some of the big box sites pay out. 60 - 50 - 10%.

So now I'm left with 10 cents on the dollar for me, and maybe to have a staff member or two because I simply can't do it all alone. How DARE I even THINK about turning a profit?!? Heaven help us!

Oh wait. Let's also not forget about income taxes and the occasional chargeback because some douche nozzle racks up a bunch of money on the family credit card and gets busted by his wife and says "oh no that wasn't me," or in actual, legitimate cases of fraud which is RAMPANT in this industry.

So tell me again, how much more YOU feel you deserve? Feel free to tell me where my math is wrong, because i just accounted for every single dime of every dollar spent on a cam site, with barely enough left over at the end for me to put food on my table for the countless hours of work I have to put in just to create an environment for you to make money.

If you think you can do a better job and give a better payout to your models you go right ahead. I only put together a viable cam site and recruited over 150 models in 2 months. What do I know?

sexysusie
11-11-2015, 06:56 AM
Goodness you really let your true colours shine through there didn't you! I was being nice too but tbh your attitude stinks. I've already heard complaints about your intrusive manner while models are working on your site so I'm glad I haven't signed up. I'll stick to my 75% + payout sites where the owners can be trusted and don't insult potential models!

QueenBitch
11-11-2015, 07:07 AM
...is this really necessary? the way I see it, the one who started with the attitude was you, sexysusie. I don't know what sort of response you were expecting.

Luna66
11-11-2015, 07:16 AM
Thegooddoctor, that post was extremely rude and regardless of the tone sexysusie spoke to you in, I hate seeing business owners who are supposed to be advertising their services to us on our forum get so rude and defensive like this. I don't actually disagree with anything you said (except that some cam sites promise 70, 90 or 100% and don't deliver, could I have an example please?), but saying "don't you be condescending with me, miss" is 1. hypocritically condescending and 2. just plain rude. May I gently remind you that without cam models you have no site and no money so coming on our forum and talking to us like that is not a good idea. And while you may have 150 models signed up i've seen only 1 online when visiting your site about 5-6 times over the last 24 hours to check, and you were apparently sending out emails asking cam models to work this weekend so you obviously need more active models.

Sexysusie may have "started it" but she is not here to represent a business and advertise it to the people who will use it, you are. So maybe bear that in mind when posting in future?

notameercat
11-11-2015, 08:37 AM
I've logged in for the 2nd time today, and my only issue so far is that it's really not obvious if you're on break mode or not. I know i'm not the only person who split cams and is paranoid about acidentally giving a free show.

thegooddoctor
11-11-2015, 09:41 AM
Thegooddoctor, that post was extremely rude and regardless of the tone sexysusie spoke to you in, I hate seeing business owners who are supposed to be advertising their services to us on our forum get so rude and defensive like this. I don't actually disagree with anything you said (except that some cam sites promise 70, 90 or 100% and don't deliver, could I have an example please?), but saying "don't you be condescending with me, miss" is 1. hypocritically condescending and 2. just plain rude. May I gently remind you that without cam models you have no site and no money so coming on our forum and talking to us like that is not a good idea. And while you may have 150 models signed up i've seen only 1 online when visiting your site about 5-6 times over the last 24 hours to check, and you were apparently sending out emails asking cam models to work this weekend so you obviously need more active models.


Sexysusie may have "started it" but she is not here to represent a business and advertise it to the people who will use it, you are. So maybe bear that in mind when posting in future?


I'm sorry that you had to hear me speak in that kind of a tone. I'm generally not a mean sort of person, but I just couldn't let that slide. We all work very hard at what we do, and it's insulting to have someone take that kind of a tone with you because of business decisions you made that was thought out and rational. I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from. There was no need for her to get all butt hurt because I decided not to work with someone... for very valid reasons. In fact, I didn't even say that I wasn't going to work with the person, what I said was that what I heard was not indicative of being a "good sign." And she jumps down my throat and insults me for my opinion that has nothing to do with her? She then further insults me for the percentage I offer, which is better than most. I just took that as entitled whining, which it is. So I decided to drop some knowledge on her with some very real numbers.


I'm not saying that you girls don't deserve better than what you get. Quite the opposite. That's why I build MFL. My girlfriend is a cam girl who had her wages slashed in half by the KL/ F4F move. She was happy on KL. She made good money and she was able to do the niche shows that she wanted to do. The move was so hard on with the pay cuts, the restrictions, and the quality of members dropping so badly that she would come down from our studio crying almost every night. And I can't bear to see my little girl in tears. That's why I've spent 20 hour days for the last 2 months building MFL. I've slept in my own bed maybe 3 or 4 times in those 2 months- I would regularly just pass out in my desk chair from sheer exhaustion. And I did it all with a smile on my face so I could build a place that would treat models fairly, pay them well, and let them do the shows that they want to do with as few restrictions as possible. And in one sentence she shits on all that effort and all of those sleepless nights (not to mention the financial strain of having to gamble 2 months of my rent and bills money just to pay for the base software), saying that it's not good enough? I'm apologize again for the tone I took, but I just could not let that slide.


Regarding your other statements, I would like to point out in my own defense that I'm not advertising here. I didn't start this thread to recruit models, advertise, or anything like that. I didn't even know this site existed until someone told me that there was a thread about my site. I just signed up so I could answer questions that people had.


Re: the condescending statement- that was meant to sarcastically mock her condescending statement.


Re: site payouts- well the KL F4F one is a good example, albeit not one of the high % ones. They tried to sell us on F4F saying that we'd get 50% there. When you read the fine print, it was 30%, and that 20% was from affiliate payouts... Side note: I don't know anyone who's seen residuals from their affiliate traffic, so I'm not so sure where that extra 20% vanished to... But for sites with unrealistic payouts here's a list: http://webcamstartup.com/cam-networks/ It's just not physically possible to give a 100% payout. CC processing alone is going to take about 15% of that. This is what a lot of these sites do. They give you numbers that are completely unrealistic so they can suck you by someone looking for a better payout, and then once they've got you, it's "well you can earn this much if you do X, Y, and Z." It's a classic bait and switch. Some of them are pretty bad too. ImLive says "up to 100%? My gf tried working for an ImLive whitelabel that offered up to 100%... she got 30%.

sexysusie
11-11-2015, 10:35 AM
it's insulting to have someone take that kind of a tone with you because of business decisions you made that was thought out and rational

Read that back to yourself. Now you see why I was offended by how you spoke to me.


IThere was no need for her to get all butt hurt because I decided not to work with someone


I was hurt by how you dismissed me, as though my opinion is worth nothing.


insults me for the percentage I offer, which is better than most.

No it's not. It is better than SM (who do a shit ton of advertising with their cut to bring in the traffic btw!). Point proven that you haven't done your research.


entitled whining

Right, because i need you more than you need me huh? Let's see how you get on with that attitude towards models.


drop some knowledge on her

I doubt you have half the knowledge or experience you think you do. You certainly underestimate mine.



in one sentence she shits on all that effort and all of those sleepless nights

........
I can't even......
!!

kortneykay
11-11-2015, 11:23 AM
Let's just chill out, yeah? Susie, you did get an attitude and if I'm not mistaken you just joined up with a site not long ago that offered 35%, right? We all do what we gotta do. But let's not pretend like you're lil Miss 75%+ only.

Doc, welcome to the site. I'm really glad you chose to swoop in where KL left off. I like the way you think, and as a person that's gotten late/missing payments from Collin, as well as Collin not too long ago threatening to out the private information of tons of cammodels,(remember that, ladies?) I don't trust him for shit.

However, you should wrap up the drama because you don't want to be known as "that guy" which could really halt people from wanting to sign up. It's best you just stay clear of any drama from here on out as you're a new site and gossip spreads wild on these forums and in the industry and the last thing you want is problems with talent. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope your site succeeds. I know one day soon you'll turn a profit for yourself. I'm looking forward to joining soon myself.

thegooddoctor
11-11-2015, 11:42 AM
Let's just chill out, yeah? Suzy, you did get an attitude and if I'm not mistaken you just joined up with a site not long ago that offered 35%, right? We all do what we gotta do. But let's not pretend like you're lil Miss 75%+ only.

Doc, welcome to the site. I'm really glad you chose to swoop in where KL left off. I like the way you think, and as a person that's gotten late/missing payments from Collin, as well as Collin not too long ago threatening to out the private information of tons of cammodels,(remember that, ladies?) I don't trust him for shit.

However, you should wrap up the drama because you don't want to be known as "that guy" which could really halt people from wanting to sign up. It's best you just stay clear of any drama from here on out as you're a new site and gossip spreads wild on these forums and in the industry and the last thing you want is problems with talent. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope your site succeeds. I know one day soon you'll turn a profit for yourself. I'm looking forward to joining soon myself.

Hello there,

Oh, I'm done. You don't have to worry about that. I've said my piece and I'm good. This isn't going to turn into a flame war. I am, however, already being negatively tweeted about though (by someone who I don't think actually works on my site, interestingly enough). But hey, any press is good press, is the way that I see it. I'll take the free publicity.

Djoser
11-11-2015, 11:42 AM
Very briefly--SexySusie, thegooddoctor is not required to accept a business relationship with someone on your sayso. Not to knock your 5 years experience, anymore than I would knock the hard labor thegooddoctor has put into building his site. But saying he is reluctant to work with someone else should not be taken as being rude to you.

So let's just settle down and get back to the thread topic

sexysusie
11-11-2015, 11:51 AM
Very briefly--SexySusie, thegooddoctor is not required to accept a business relationship with someone on your sayso

My issue with this site isn't about the percentage (though it could definitely be improved), or his attitude towards dp, it's about the way he spoke to me and his general manner.

This is my last post in this thread because quite honestly it is not worth my energy and I don't plan to ever sign up or do business with him. But i'd definitely urge the rest of you to proceed with caution. If he can go from mr nice guy to an entitled, woman-insulting dick in less than a page, imagine how he'd be to deal with once he has your personal information and access to your cam feed!

HaydenBlue
11-11-2015, 12:16 PM
he's already gone from mr nice guy to insulting in less than a page, imagine what he'd be like to deal with once he has your personal information and access to your cam feed!

That's hilarious you say that and yet you were wanting him to use Colin's service for DailyPay - the same guy who blackmailed models - threatening to release names, address', phone numbers, IP's, and social security information. (https://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?188628-Anyone-on-dailypay-you-had-better-read-this-OMG&highlight=dailypay+blackmail) That argument doesn't even work here. Please. ::)::)::)

I understand why you're upset - and I understand why he's upset. I read it as "0 tolerance for (Colin's) bullshit" not that your response was bullshit. You blew up, instead of handling it differently, he got upset - and now you're attacking him for being upset that you insulted his business? Chill out.

Djoser
11-11-2015, 12:30 PM
I'm very close to just going back & wiping out any reference to this Collin guy, since that's where the trouble here started. But that would be a lot of work. So maybe we could just drop it?

Djoser
11-11-2015, 12:34 PM
Though if what I am hearing is true better people know about it.

For now let's just get back to the thread topic. Many thanks to all concerned.

Tsani
11-11-2015, 02:10 PM
Good lord I log off for a while and look what happens lol. I'm not gonna perpetuate the drama or anything, I'd just like to point out that for a non-indy cam site that's getting good, targeted traffic that actually pays and isn't full of freeloaders, 50% is more than reasonable. I've seen new cam sites pop up offering more than that and you know what happened? They went out of business. Remember Xpeeps waaaay back when? They were great, had good, paying traffic, and offered 80%! But they couldn't sustain that and ended up as a SM white label with a whopping 48 hour notice to the models. Same with KinkLive (though granted, they did handle it better). They couldn't sustain even 60% and are now a white label. Yes, I'm worried that this site may go the way of the other sites that tried to be good to the models and pay a higher percentage, but I'm really hoping that the fact that it fills the hole that KL left and that the owner has given a lot of thought to a workable percentage to pay the models (and not overpay the affiliates), will help it stay afloat. Kudos to you, Doc.

SuperPookie
11-11-2015, 02:42 PM
Wow, anything on SW can cause drama lol. Maybe I should start a thread about puppies or something :D

thegooddoctor
11-11-2015, 06:20 PM
Good lord I log off for a while and look what happens lol. I'm not gonna perpetuate the drama or anything, I'd just like to point out that for a non-indy cam site that's getting good, targeted traffic that actually pays and isn't full of freeloaders, 50% is more than reasonable. I've seen new cam sites pop up offering more than that and you know what happened? They went out of business. Remember Xpeeps waaaay back when? They were great, had good, paying traffic, and offered 80%! But they couldn't sustain that and ended up as a SM white label with a whopping 48 hour notice to the models. Same with KinkLive (though granted, they did handle it better). They couldn't sustain even 60% and are now a white label. Yes, I'm worried that this site may go the way of the other sites that tried to be good to the models and pay a higher percentage, but I'm really hoping that the fact that it fills the hole that KL left and that the owner has given a lot of thought to a workable percentage to pay the models (and not overpay the affiliates), will help it stay afloat. Kudos to you, Doc.

I apologize in advance for the wall of text you're about to read.

Tsani, thank you for your kindness. It's greatly appreciated. If I may, I'd like to address the issues that Kink Live had and how I intend to avoid them.

First thing's first, there are two basic broad stroke ways to run a cam site. Big box sites have teams of programmers who program their site from the ground up with completely custom code. Smaller sites use off the shelf software solutions. Kink, being one of the largest names in BDSM content, felt that they were in the realm of competing with the big boys, and wrote their software from the ground up. However, they didn't really have/ want to devote the resources that it really entailed. To write a cam site from the ground up, the general rule of thumb is that it takes a team of programmers about 2 years to make a solid product. I agree with this general consensus as I have been a software developer for about 15 years, and that's about what I'd quote it as to write a large site like that from scratch. As any model who's cammed there can say... the software sucked. It was buggy and glitchy. They basically bit off more than they were willing to chew, and they kind of left it like that. This buggy software drove away a lot of paying customers. If a customer can't even add their credit card properly, why (and how) could they pay for the services on the site? They also only relied on tips and the private shows as their only revenue stream. They didn't do VOD, VIP memberships, or any of the other inexpensive ways to generate more money for the site. Additionally, Kink Live had a very programmatically strange system of micropayments, but allowed their customers to have one click tipping. Great idea in theory, but in practice it was a major problem. In order to do that, they stored credit card information on a website that wasn't very secure. They had a MASSIVE problem with one or more hackers busting into accounts and ringing up huge unauthorized amounts on credit cards. This lead to tons of refunds and chargebacks. Additionally, because they payout percentage was so high they did very little to no marketing and advertising to gain traffic. They didn't really do much for affiliates. They just relied on the existing traffic from other kink.com websites... and that was about it. Again, great idea in theory, but it fell a bit short in practice for how big they expected to grow. They also were paying massive bandwidth overages. They really didn't manage their bandwidth plans well, and were paying through the nose. Finally, there was a physical problem. KinkLive ran a physical studio as well in the Armory. It was a beautiful space. I'm fortunate enough to say that I've had the opportunity to cam from the Armory. However, they were charging $5 in room rent per 12 hour period, and they were staffing that section of the armory 24/7. They had up to 3 full time staffers on shift 24/7. tl;dr version- their software was crap so they lost money in loss of sales and chargebacks and they hemorrhaged money every month. It just wasn't a sustainable business model.

When I was at the armory, I volunteered my time to help fix their software. They said no. OK fine. Whatever. No big deal. I just wanted to help.

So what am I doing that's going to be different? Firstly, I'm starting with an out of the box solution. It's stable software (though there are some minor bugs), and I'm making customizations to it. I don't store credit card info. Yes, it makes it slightly more inconvenient to buy site "kinks" but it will do wonders to alleviate credit card fraud. I also have multiple layers of fraud detection in place. That should alleviate a lot of problems by itself.

But this is the v1 of the site that you see. This is a small portion of what this site will become. There will be a more robust two tiered VIP membership (three tiers including regular members). There will be VOD. There will also be an entirely separate educational section where I will be bringing in presenters and authors to teach live classes. There will be corporate sponsored "featured shows." I'm also building out a system to give each model the ability to have their own monthly pay site. I signed a contract with Kiiroo to do interactive shows using their interactive toys, I will be selling the Kiiroo toys through the site, and I am partnering with Kiiroo to build THEIR cam site for them, and I will be getting a percentage of their sales as well. I also intend to find other similarly interactive toys and plan on integrating those as well (remote e-stim- both model to client and/ or client to model), remotely controlled fucking machines, remotely controlled spanking machines... and about a dozen other projects that I will be building into the system over time. Additionally, I am partnering with the software company that wrote the base software and will be slowly replacing a lot of their content management system with my own, and I intend to lease the new software package to other cam sites that pop up in the future.

I also intend to actually advertise the site, but I'm going to be smart about it. I've looked at large ad buy networks, and I haven't been impressed with the sites that they have in their networks. I'm going after targeted and very specific markets that I know will bring in paying customers.

And that's just the beginning... wait until I really get going.

SimoneGray
11-12-2015, 09:06 AM
^^ Thank you very much for that, I appreciate this level of answer tremendously. Two things.

1) Why VOD? I know it sounds like a cool idea and all, but I cam on F4F which is like the king of VOD generating sites and I'll tell you, I loathe that feature with a passion. First off, because people get sneaky and download that shit for free. Secondly because it stops customers actually coming back and paying me my rate to go private. What they do is they'll spend say $100 on a show with me, I'll get my cut and never see them again. THEN, a week later, I'll see I've had VOD activity, and its the mofo who spent last week, who I have never seen again but who has been jackin' it for free because he is the "original owner of the material. Additional to that, if I want to then charge, I am allowed to charge only 30% of my per minute rate, of which I then get the site's percentage. Hell fucking no to that as well. If people are going to leave me because they now have a basically free recording of me they can watch over and over again, I'd rather they be charged my full per minute private rate. Better still? I'd rather they didn't even have access to that feature.

Now of course, this isn't an affront to you or anything, but I do beg you to reconsider this system because its the models who lose out. Big time. We lose return revenue because these guys know they can just spend every two months or so when they get tired of watching old material as opposed to every few days. I mean I literally had a guy say to me yesterday that its cool that I now do Skype shows, but he will never purchase one "because then I can't rewatch our shows". I got really angry because he USED to be a good client until he got wise to the fact that he could watch our shows again at no cost because he had once paid for privates. So not on. Please reconsider, or structure your VOD's in such a way that it doesn't matter who made them in the first place, they still have to pay the same damn rate they did the first time around and no freebies.

2) Fuck yes for Kiiroo!! I've just gotten interactive with mine on F4F and I do love it, its a huge extra revenue generator, so its awesome to see that its being included. Maybe also think about it being ok for us to use toys like OhMiBod etc that are just sound controlled? I know on F4F they are not too fond of them because they are viewed as competitors to Kiiroo but they really are different. Also not every guy can afford the Onyx part of the Kiiroo setup, but they can afford a tip that will trigger an OhMiBod and that way everyone get's to have fun. Once again just something to consider.

thegooddoctor
11-12-2015, 10:13 AM
^^ Thank you very much for that, I appreciate this level of answer tremendously. Two things.

1) Why VOD? I know it sounds like a cool idea and all, but I cam on F4F which is like the king of VOD generating sites and I'll tell you, I loathe that feature with a passion. First off, because people get sneaky and download that shit for free. Secondly because it stops customers actually coming back and paying me my rate to go private. What they do is they'll spend say $100 on a show with me, I'll get my cut and never see them again. THEN, a week later, I'll see I've had VOD activity, and its the mofo who spent last week, who I have never seen again but who has been jackin' it for free because he is the "original owner of the material. Additional to that, if I want to then charge, I am allowed to charge only 30% of my per minute rate, of which I then get the site's percentage. Hell fucking no to that as well. If people are going to leave me because they now have a basically free recording of me they can watch over and over again, I'd rather they be charged my full per minute private rate. Better still? I'd rather they didn't even have access to that feature.

Now of course, this isn't an affront to you or anything, but I do beg you to reconsider this system because its the models who lose out. Big time. We lose return revenue because these guys know they can just spend every two months or so when they get tired of watching old material as opposed to every few days. I mean I literally had a guy say to me yesterday that its cool that I now do Skype shows, but he will never purchase one "because then I can't rewatch our shows". I got really angry because he USED to be a good client until he got wise to the fact that he could watch our shows again at no cost because he had once paid for privates. So not on. Please reconsider, or structure your VOD's in such a way that it doesn't matter who made them in the first place, they still have to pay the same damn rate they did the first time around and no freebies.

2) Fuck yes for Kiiroo!! I've just gotten interactive with mine on F4F and I do love it, its a huge extra revenue generator, so its awesome to see that its being included. Maybe also think about it being ok for us to use toys like OhMiBod etc that are just sound controlled? I know on F4F they are not too fond of them because they are viewed as competitors to Kiiroo but they really are different. Also not every guy can afford the Onyx part of the Kiiroo setup, but they can afford a tip that will trigger an OhMiBod and that way everyone get's to have fun. Once again just something to consider.

1) Please don't compare me to F4F. We're going to be structuring it completely differently than that. I'm still working out the details on whether it's going to be ppm like hotmovies, or if its going to be flat rate buying a video like C4S. More importantly, you don't HAVE to participate. This is an opt in feature, not mandatory with a 25% opt out like F4F does (where you can only unpublish 25% of your videos). You don't have to sell anything you don't want to. A lot of models do sell custom videos. We're just giving them a place to do it. You can set your own prices, change them as you see fit, and the rev share will be just like any other tip or private- 50%. In the performer profile there's a checkbox to make your private session videos available to you for publishing, and I do highly suggest checking it. That does not mean that any of the videos are published, but that YOU have the ability to publish them for sale, IF you so choose. Because this is a fetish website, we take our client's privacy during private sessions very seriously. We give you the ability to, but you will never have to publish anything you don't want to. Ever.

2) OhMiBod shows are fine. Have fun. I don't think there needs to be a specific structure in place for that, since it's just sound activated. You'll just want to turn up your sound volume and make sure tip sounds are on, and turn off sounds for things like messages, people coming into the room, etc. If you need a hand setting that up, I'll be happy to help walk you through the process.

SimoneGray
11-12-2015, 10:19 AM
^^ Yay! Thank you for that. I love the idea of an opt in feature, I also do love the idea of being able to take custom video orders. Also love the idea that we have the choice to publish or not. The lack thereof is frustrating, but doing it differently with models interests in mind is always a huge plus for me.

I'll give the site a try when I have a computer that can handle splitcamming :) thank you in the meantime for all the info and all the details etc.

space_cowgirl
11-12-2015, 03:07 PM
Personally I'm against using toys or doing anything sexual in free chat. Just my two cents.

Tsani
11-12-2015, 03:53 PM
Personally I'm against using toys or doing anything sexual in free chat. Just my two cents.

Good point, and I think there's a no nudity or giving stuff up for free rule in free chat, which leads me to the question: can people tip in private and group shows?

space_cowgirl
11-12-2015, 05:02 PM
Good point, and I think there's a no nudity or giving stuff up for free rule in free chat, which leads me to the question: can people tip in private and group shows?

I mean even for tips. Keep it in private.

.MPP.
11-16-2015, 12:07 PM
When can we see the Boleyn studio active with MFL? I'm excited to work there but it's important to me to get daily pay! Once it starts, I'm stoked to start camming there. Everything looks great!

Tsani
11-16-2015, 01:00 PM
I believe it's currently active. Just sign up on MFL then tell thegooddoctor that you'd like to be switched to the Boleyn Models studio. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong though.

Tsani
11-20-2015, 01:08 PM
Is thegooddoctor still around? I finally cammed there yesterday and was kinda hoping he might pop by and answer a few questions I had. I'm assuming that it's ok to talk about your twitter since they allow you to put your twitter on your profile. I got asked a few times by people in my room if they could follow me on twitter. One said he couldn't find the link in my profile but I think that may have been because he was on phone.

I was only on there for about an hour or so because this is my first time back on cam in about a year and a half so I wanted to start off slow. I got a few guest peepers, a guest who said his credit card works on every site but this one, and a member who said he used up all his kinks and he's only 19 so money is hard to come by. That one kept trying to get me to talk about dominating him in free chat but I just kept saying that I only discuss those things during private sessions.

I noticed a button in my streaming panel that said "VIP" and when I hovered over it, it said something like "Allow private sessions"... I couldn't tell if it was on by default because it was grey, but so were the ones for allow free guest chat and one other one that I forget what it said. Guests could obviously chat so I'm thinking grey means it's on? or it's on by default for all those buttons? But I kept wondering if I wasn't getting privates because they weren't enabled.

So yeah... how's that model guide thing coming, doc? You've been quiet around here lately. Also, if you've been waiting for notifications when this thread is replied to, it seems SW notifications are borked right now so there's that.

severa
11-21-2015, 01:46 PM
Another question for thegooddoctor or someone getting checks: what is the company name listed on the envelope/check? Is it discreet i.e. not obviously a cam site?

The reason I ask is that I'm subletting an apartment and move a lot, so the answer to this info will influence what I list as my address

LaylaLovely
11-21-2015, 03:31 PM
Is thegooddoctor still around? I finally cammed there yesterday and was kinda hoping he might pop by and answer a few questions I had. I'm assuming that it's ok to talk about your twitter since they allow you to put your twitter on your profile. I got asked a few times by people in my room if they could follow me on twitter. One said he couldn't find the link in my profile but I think that may have been because he was on phone.

I was only on there for about an hour or so because this is my first time back on cam in about a year and a half so I wanted to start off slow. I got a few guest peepers, a guest who said his credit card works on every site but this one, and a member who said he used up all his kinks and he's only 19 so money is hard to come by. That one kept trying to get me to talk about dominating him in free chat but I just kept saying that I only discuss those things during private sessions.

I noticed a button in my streaming panel that said "VIP" and when I hovered over it, it said something like "Allow private sessions"... I couldn't tell if it was on by default because it was grey, but so were the ones for allow free guest chat and one other one that I forget what it said. Guests could obviously chat so I'm thinking grey means it's on? or it's on by default for all those buttons? But I kept wondering if I wasn't getting privates because they weren't enabled.

So yeah... how's that model guide thing coming, doc? You've been quiet around here lately. Also, if you've been waiting for notifications when this thread is replied to, it seems SW notifications are borked right now so there's that.

The chat icons are just to allow/block guests from speaking you'll know if there on or off because they'll have a red circle crossed out...like the break button does when you click it.

thegooddoctor
11-22-2015, 12:52 AM
Is thegooddoctor still around? I finally cammed there yesterday and was kinda hoping he might pop by and answer a few questions I had. I'm assuming that it's ok to talk about your twitter since they allow you to put your twitter on your profile. I got asked a few times by people in my room if they could follow me on twitter. One said he couldn't find the link in my profile but I think that may have been because he was on phone.

Yes, it's ok to talk about twitter and other social media.


I was only on there for about an hour or so because this is my first time back on cam in about a year and a half so I wanted to start off slow. I got a few guest peepers, a guest who said his credit card works on every site but this one, and a member who said he used up all his kinks and he's only 19 so money is hard to come by. That one kept trying to get me to talk about dominating him in free chat but I just kept saying that I only discuss those things during private sessions.

When were you on? I'm on the site a lot, but I can't be there 24/7. The guest saying his cc doesn't work... I'm fairly certain he's full of shit. Firstly, if he's a guest, there's no way he's even tried to add funds to his account. You have to be a member to do that. Secondly, I looked over the cc transaction logs and I don't see any declines that I don't know who they were from. I hope you kicked out the guy trying to get you to Dom him in public. That should not tolerated. I'm sorry to hear that you didn't have a great experience for your first time on the site. Our members are usually pretty solid.


I noticed a button in my streaming panel that said "VIP" and when I hovered over it, it said something like "Allow private sessions"... I couldn't tell if it was on by default because it was grey, but so were the ones for allow free guest chat and one other one that I forget what it said. Guests could obviously chat so I'm thinking grey means it's on? or it's on by default for all those buttons? But I kept wondering if I wasn't getting privates because they weren't enabled.

The three buttons you saw on the right there, were your break button (click it to go on break), the "kick out all the anons" button", and the button to turn on and off private chat. What that one actually does isn't very intuitive. I usually explain that when I go over the features with new models. A common problem I've noticed is members promising to take a model to pvt, but instead take them to group at a lower rate. I wanted to fix that issue. I was going to write a very complex piece of software to check how many people were in the room, etc, but I figured out a much simpler and more elegant fix. I just overlayed the private chat button over the group chat button. That way, when you turn off private chat, you expose the group chat button below it. Therefore, you only allow someone to take you to group, when YOU say they can. Ostensibly, you talk to the room, and if they want to do a group, you turn off private chat, and multiple people can join the group. That's different than our "kink sessions" which are ostensibly gold shows on other sites. That's another button down at the bottom of the page.


So yeah... how's that model guide thing coming, doc? You've been quiet around here lately. Also, if you've been waiting for notifications when this thread is replied to, it seems SW notifications are borked right now so there's that.

I'm slowly working on the model manual. It's going to be a very comprehensive document. Aside from the basic info, there will be lots of tips and tricks, in depth how to's, etc. That said, this is one of three companies that I run, and I've had to pay some attention to my other endeavors for a bit, so I haven't been able to check all the sites regularly. My apologies for the delay in responding.


Another question for thegooddoctor or someone getting checks: what is the company name listed on the envelope/check? Is it discreet i.e. not obviously a cam site?

The reason I ask is that I'm subletting an apartment and move a lot, so the answer to this info will influence what I list as my address

The checks come in a plain envelope. I generally put an address label on them that says Dr. Clockwork LLC which is my parent company for the site (I run it under my other company's tax id). I don't need to put my address label on your check though. That said, direct deposit is an available option, so you don't have to worry about checks at all.

Tsani
11-22-2015, 02:38 PM
Thanks for the answers, Doc! I wouldn't say my first time camming there was a bad experience. It was pretty fun actually just to finally get back on cam after that long hiatus. I was on there Thursday afternoon Pacific Time. Probably around 3ish or so.

I'm planning on giving it another go this week. I can usually only get on during normal work hours on weekdays because I don't like to cam when the boyfriend is home from work because it distracts me. Also, I can't really stick to a set schedule because I have a freelance design business and fibromyalgia so my schedule and health are pretty sporadic.

Tsani
11-23-2015, 05:39 PM
Alright here's something that's concerning to me. I didn't want to post it out in the open until I confirmed that the models affected weren't aware of this and I did so here it is:

I stumbled upon a thread in another adult webmaster forum advertising a webcam model exchange network. It's not a white label or studio situation, it's a network of models that have signed up to a website and then are put into the model sharing network by the site owner to sort of "trade" models. The purpose being to make it look like there's more models working online on your site than there really are. I checked out their example site of online models available for exchange and noticed two things. One was that it was the same cam site software as MFL uses (no biggie, as I know a lot of sites use the same software/script. Also, the network is owned by the same company who sells the chat script I think). The second thing I noticed was that three of the models that I saw logged on to the example site are models that are usually logged on to MyFetishLive.com. I know one of the models from here so I asked her if she knew about this or if she signed up to be in this "network" and she said she didn't. They make their sales pitch out to look like the models want to be broadcast on multiple sites. Also the info on the site is confusing, probably because the company is based in Russia so English probably isn't their first language. I'm not sure if I should share the link here or not. I've shared the relevant links in the verified camgirls group in case anyone in that group wants to check there. Also I'm not sure if it would do much good to share the example cam site here, as it only shows online models so I'm not sure how many MFL girls are on there. Y'all can PM me for links if you want.

So here are my questions for thegooddoctor or anyone who knows:

1. Did you ask the models who signed up on MFL that you share with the "ModelNet" if they wanted to be broadcast on multiple sites? Is there an opt-in or opt-out option for this?
2. The models that I'm seeing online at both places, did they originally sign up on MFL or someplace else that you got from the exchange? Or both? I know that webmasters who sign up for the exchange have the option to get models or give models or both.
3. How do model payments work for that, if someone signed up on MFL but get tipped from another site? It seems confusing to me, probably because they make it clear on the site that it's not a white label situation. I saw mention of a percentage cut that they take, does that come out of our cut or your cut?
4. I searched both MFL and the example site for Terms & Conditions or a model contract or anything that might have this in the fine print but the Terms & Conditions and Privacy Policy seem to both be geared toward customers. Was there something I missed when I signed up on the site and clicked the "agree" button and this was my bad for not reading the fine print before signing up?

I don't want to cause a panic without all the info but I figured the models involved should know, as I feel that we all would want to be in control of our online presence and if we're getting screwed out of any money that we weren't aware of, etc. Or if we've got guys coming into our rooms from other sites we weren't aware we were on... yeah. I just wish this industry would stop treating us like commodities to be bought, sold, and traded and loop us in every once in a while. We're not as dumb as webmasters tend to think.

space_cowgirl
11-24-2015, 10:33 AM
Any answers yet?

thegooddoctor
11-24-2015, 04:04 PM
Alright here's something that's concerning to me. I didn't want to post it out in the open until I confirmed that the models affected weren't aware of this and I did so here it is:

I stumbled upon a thread in another adult webmaster forum advertising a webcam model exchange network. It's not a white label or studio situation, it's a network of models that have signed up to a website and then are put into the model sharing network by the site owner to sort of "trade" models. The purpose being to make it look like there's more models working online on your site than there really are. I checked out their example site of online models available for exchange and noticed two things. One was that it was the same cam site software as MFL uses (no biggie, as I know a lot of sites use the same software/script. Also, the network is owned by the same company who sells the chat script I think). The second thing I noticed was that three of the models that I saw logged on to the example site are models that are usually logged on to MyFetishLive.com. I know one of the models from here so I asked her if she knew about this or if she signed up to be in this "network" and she said she didn't. They make their sales pitch out to look like the models want to be broadcast on multiple sites. Also the info on the site is confusing, probably because the company is based in Russia so English probably isn't their first language. I'm not sure if I should share the link here or not. I've shared the relevant links in the verified camgirls group in case anyone in that group wants to check there. Also I'm not sure if it would do much good to share the example cam site here, as it only shows online models so I'm not sure how many MFL girls are on there. Y'all can PM me for links if you want.

So here are my questions for thegooddoctor or anyone who knows:

1. Did you ask the models who signed up on MFL that you share with the "ModelNet" if they wanted to be broadcast on multiple sites? Is there an opt-in or opt-out option for this?
2. The models that I'm seeing online at both places, did they originally sign up on MFL or someplace else that you got from the exchange? Or both? I know that webmasters who sign up for the exchange have the option to get models or give models or both.
3. How do model payments work for that, if someone signed up on MFL but get tipped from another site? It seems confusing to me, probably because they make it clear on the site that it's not a white label situation. I saw mention of a percentage cut that they take, does that come out of our cut or your cut?
4. I searched both MFL and the example site for Terms & Conditions or a model contract or anything that might have this in the fine print but the Terms & Conditions and Privacy Policy seem to both be geared toward customers. Was there something I missed when I signed up on the site and clicked the "agree" button and this was my bad for not reading the fine print before signing up?

I don't want to cause a panic without all the info but I figured the models involved should know, as I feel that we all would want to be in control of our online presence and if we're getting screwed out of any money that we weren't aware of, etc. Or if we've got guys coming into our rooms from other sites we weren't aware we were on... yeah. I just wish this industry would stop treating us like commodities to be bought, sold, and traded and loop us in every once in a while. We're not as dumb as webmasters tend to think.

Yes, that's correct. My site uses the software that ModelNet uses. I've been playing with the ModelNet to see if it garners extra traffic on the site. Thus far, I haven't exactly been impressed with the results. There's been a few models who've gotten tipped, but the majority of the people that see MFL models on other sites aren't exactly impressive. I've had to chase more than one member from another site down and give him a talking to about being respectful and not demanding things for free. I like to take an active role in assisting to mold the "culture" of the site. Thus far local members understand that Fetish and BDSM is a premium service and as such comes with a premium price tag. My members don't ask for things for free. They just know better.

I'm still up in the air about whether or not I want to participate in the ModelNet. I'm still experimenting with it. I may just pull in models from some specific sites as filler models when there aren't enough of my "local" models on. I can set up the ability to broadcast models as either an opt in, or an opt out. So to answer your specific questions:

1) No, I haven't asked my models about it. I'm still figuring out if I want it as a feature or not. At the moment, there are only a few network members who see our models at all, so I didn't think it was particularly noteworthy. If I see a rude network member in a room, I'll tell the model about it though. But again, we're just experimenting with modelnet at this time.

2) As of yesterday, actually, I gained the ability to pull in models from other sites. I'm still paying off the software, and they wanted me to pay off a certain amount before they'd turn that on for me. So all of the models at the moment, have signed up on MFL. I may pull in a few over the next few days to see how it goes. So far- I have 170 activated models who have signed up on MFL, and a couple dozen who are still in various states of their paperwork. Now how often those models log on... thats a separate issue, and is kind of the reason why I'd need to pull models in from the network. Some models are a little skittish about logging on until they know there's traffic, but I can't keep traffic on the sites without the models. Network models allow me to keep users on the site long enough for models to realize that there IS money to be made, and log on. Then once we have enough models on at all hours, then I can pull out the Network models and we'll be solid.

3) Payments are completely seamless from the model perspective. It breaks down like this. If you are being broadcast to another site and you get tipped $10, you get $5 (your 50%). The site that pulled you in, pays 80% to ModelNet, and ModelNet pays me 70%. You get your 50% and I make 20%. Conversely, if I pull in a model from another site who gets tipped $10, I pay for the cc processing of buying the "kinks" on our site (15% or so), pay out the model and/ or site affiliate (if applicable- another 10% ish), and then I pay ModelNet 80%. So best case scenario, I make 5%, worst case, I lose 5% on every transaction. Yes, it seems silly for me to pay into it but if it keeps a paying customer long term, then it's worth it, over time.

4) The text in the model agreement is still the boiler plate text that came with the software. I haven't gotten around to changing it yet. I'm still paying off the software, fixing bugs, and adding features. Then once I have accumulated a bit of money and can afford it, then those documents go to an extremely overpriced "adult content" lawyer, and he's going to rewrite them to my specs. The agreement will be very fair. The broad strokes of it will be that I am being granted nonexclusive IP rights to use your image on the site (if you're working there, your image is going to show up on the site, so I need the rights to publish your image) and to use in advertisements. I will, however, ask your permission before using any images for banner ads that I make, but there are certain types of ads that pull in live images of models who are currently online, and that I don't have any control over. Hence me saying that I need IP rights to reproduce your image on ads. The rules of what's allowed/ not allowed is very broad and gives you a lot of freedom. I believe i posted the preliminary list earlier in this thread. There will also be a code of conduct (for lack of a better phrase) which will basically state a generalized guideline for "how we do things" on this site- keep it classy in public and get down and dirty in private, small stuff for tips in public is ok, but not to go overboard. We value our models highly and don't feel that its right to give things away for free, as that detracts from other models who don't do that and damages the culture of the site that I'm trying to build that this is Premium Content and as such comes with a premium price tag. Stuff like that. Moving on... Private shows are recorded for archive and 2257 purposes (all cam sites do this but they don't tell you about it- I'm big on transparency). You have the opt-in ability to have access to those shows, and a further ability to opt in to publish them (or upload one) for sale (this feature will be added soon). I do NOT force you to publish anything. I do SUGGEST that you at least opt in to have access to the videos, but that's only from a "it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" perspective, cuz I'm not digging through the archives to find a video file you decided you want later but didn't save it. That's pretty much the gist of it.

I understand your concerns, especially about ModelNet. However, most big box cam sites have whitelabels that they don't tell you about. For full disclosure, we will have a whitelabel site. Wastelandlive.com currently redirects to our site, but I'm going to build them a whitelabel. There's a whitelabel for F4F called camprostitutes.com. I found that one out and was absolutely livid about it during the KL move. The ModelNet list of sites is small, and I review the list to make sure that none of the sites are offensively named. There's one that I don't particularly care for (and it's not even THAT offensive), and even if I do decide to use ModelNet, I will not allow them to pull in my models. If I decide to use ModelNet to broadcast to try to bring a bit more traffic to the models on my site, I will be sending out an email explaining exactly what it is, and if they so desire, they can either opt in or opt out- haven't figured out which way I want to work that. I will furthermore see if I can add that to the registration process and profile so you can change your settings whenever you'd like.

I hope that answers all of your questions. Please let me know if I can further clarify anything.

Tsani
11-24-2015, 05:09 PM
Doc, (can I call you doc?)

Thank you for taking the time to explain things to us further. I know a lot of us were (and probably still are) concerned about the ModelNet thing. Also thanks for explaining your answers to my questions in a professional and easy to understand manner and not getting defensive like some other industry "professionals" might have lol.

I'm glad that the pay cut from network sites doesn't come out of our percentage. I think that was one of the main concerns, webmasters pimping us out, getting their cut and us seeing none of it. It looks like the token rate is standard across the network sites (1 token = $1) which keeps things simple. Though the only "network" site I'm aware of is the one that the network owner uses to show available models, which he advertised on that other forum like "hey want more models? Here take ours!" slimy shit which is to be expected of that particular forum. That site only shows online models so it's hard to see how many models there actually are on the network. They also make it sound like models sign up directly with the ModelNet to be broadcast to multiple sites. They may have some models who have signed up that way but that's certainly not the case for all.

My personal opinion on the situation after reading your reply is that you were making a smart business move to get more online models from the network on your very new site, thus bringing in more customers. I also feel that you have our best interest in mind with bringing more traffic from the network to your local site models, however, I wish that you would have notified us before we found out like this, rather than making plans to announce it in the future. I know that the software has starting limitations and I'm not sure if being a part of the ModelNet was a requirement with purchase. I also know you've got a lot on your plate and your to-do list (as a web developer with multiple projects myself, trust me, I know), but you said you're big on transparency and I would have expected that you would have put this at a higher priority. But I do understand, you can't do all the things at once.

There is a bit of mixed information in your post though that I'd like to point out:


2) As of yesterday, actually, I gained the ability to pull in models from other sites. I'm still paying off the software, and they wanted me to pay off a certain amount before they'd turn that on for me. So all of the models at the moment, have signed up on MFL. I may pull in a few over the next few days to see how it goes.

So you're saying that the network was exclusively pulling models from your site (the ones that I was seeing on that other site) until yesterday.

But:

...even if I do decide to use ModelNet, I will not allow them to pull in my models. If I decide to use ModelNet to broadcast to try to bring a bit more traffic to the models on my site, I will be sending out an email explaining exactly what it is, and if they so desire, they can either opt in or opt out- haven't figured out which way I want to work that.

So are they or aren't they pulling in your models? Is it that they were but now they're not? It seems a bit late to send out an email explaining what will be happening when it's already happened.

Anyways, thanks again for having this discussion with us here so that we can better understand and all concerned can be kept in the loop.

Luna66
11-24-2015, 05:23 PM
I've been playing with the ModelNet to see if it garners extra traffic on the site ... There's been a few models who've gotten tipped, but the majority of the people that see MFL models on other sites aren't exactly impressive ... I've had to chase more than one member from another site down and give him a talking to about being respectful and not demanding things for free ... I'm still up in the air about whether or not I want to participate in the ModelNet ... I'm still experimenting with it ...

So you admit you're actively using it but then you say:


If I decide to use ModelNet ... I will be sending out an email explaining exactly what it is, and if they so desire, they can either opt in or opt out.

Doesn't matter if at the moment you're just "experimenting" with it, or you haven't made your mind up, you're using it without notifying models, which you claim you wouldn't do. I know all sites have whitelabels etc but you're apparently "big on transparency" and claim you would send an email and offer an opt-in/opt-out, and you're not being transparent or offering an opt-out at all.


I'm still paying off the software

Worrying, considering how many established, long-term sites have been not paying models and even shutting down recently.


I've had to chase more than one member from another site down and give him a talking to about being respectful and not demanding things for free.

I suspect I may be in the minority here, but the idea of a site owner watching my show (tbh that alone creeps me out) and contacting a member about his conduct during the show isn't something I would want, regardless of which site or whitelabel that member came from. 1. I can deal with it myself. 2. You may scare him off. 3. It's probably going to seem to him like I have reported him to you and asked you to tell him off. 4. You don't know my relationship with the customer.


The text in the model agreement is still the boiler plate text that came with the software. I haven't gotten around to changing it yet. I'm still paying off the software, fixing bugs, and adding features. Then once I have accumulated a bit of money and can afford it, then those documents go to an extremely overpriced "adult content" lawyer, and he's going to rewrite them to my specs.

To me, honestly, this would make me not sign up if had been considering it. Basically, models who sign up are signing a model agreement which is entirely irrelevant to the site they're going to be camming on. You say you're going to re-write it, and it sounds like that won't happen for quite a while, so everyone who's signed up so far and everyone who will sign up before you get the agreement fixed will be signing something irrelevant without their knowledge (unless they happen to be on this forum and happen to see and read your post). And then you will change it completely. What if they are not happy with the change? That's assuming you'll notify them of it. They will have to abandon a site they have been cultivating an audience on for months.

I totally understand the desire to have everything decided and sorted out before notifying your models about it. I understand wanting to play around with ModelNet first before you tell your models about it and potentially worrying them and having them investing time into doing research about ModelNet if you're eventually just going to decide you won't even use it anyway. I understand the desire to start the site and get models on it before you've sorted out the model agreement. We all get excited about things. But to me, starting before you have all your ducks in a row is unprofessional and all the talk about waiting until you have more money makes me worry about your models not getting paid.

Tsani
11-24-2015, 05:59 PM
I totally understand the desire to have everything decided and sorted out before notifying your models about it. I understand wanting to play around with ModelNet first before you tell your models about it and potentially worrying them and having them investing time into doing research about ModelNet if you're eventually just going to decide you won't even use it anyway. I understand the desire to start the site and get models on it before you've sorted out the model agreement. We all get excited about things. But to me, starting before you have all your ducks in a row is unprofessional and all the talk about waiting until you have more money makes me worry about your models not getting paid.

^^ This.

Starting a new site is hard. You need traffic, but to get traffic you need models. To get models you need traffic. You also need everything finished but it's hard to work on getting things finished when you're trying to get models and traffic. We get it. We just wish you would have finished the model agreement, gotten the software paid for, and finished the model guide before recruiting the models.

New cam sites often fail because they expect the site to pay for the software, hosting, bandwidth, traffic, etc. but in my opinion that's putting the cart before the horse. I think that as long as you understand that in the event the site starts to go under, your top priority is to pay the models and give them prior notice that the site is going under, then getting everything else paid off is secondary and out of your pocket.... as long as you understand that's how business in this industry SHOULD work, then you should be ok. We've been burned too many times by sites failing to pay models, going under without warning (other than we didn't get paid) and never being seen or heard from again.

I like to think that you're not like most new sites, but I'm an optimist for the most part. Some things you say are concerning but I would hope that you would handle a bad situation much better than most.

Magical_Hoohah
11-24-2015, 06:46 PM
There is a bit of mixed information in your post though that I'd like to point out:

"2) As of yesterday, actually, I gained the ability to pull in models from other sites. I'm still paying off the software, and they wanted me to pay off a certain amount before they'd turn that on for me. So all of the models at the moment, have signed up on MFL. I may pull in a few over the next few days to see how it goes."

So you're saying that the network was exclusively pulling models from your site (the ones that I was seeing on that other site) until yesterday.

But:

"...even if I do decide to use ModelNet, I will not allow them to pull in my models. If I decide to use ModelNet to broadcast to try to bring a bit more traffic to the models on my site, I will be sending out an email explaining exactly what it is, and if they so desire, they can either opt in or opt out- haven't figured out which way I want to work that."

So are they or aren't they pulling in your models? Is it that they were but now they're not?

I think in the bolded section, "them" was referring to sites that are offensively named (e.g. "camprostitutes" or something). In other words, even if MFL models appear on other ModelNet sites, he would block us from appearing on offensive sites.

I'd add that many of us also don't love appearing on sites that include "free" in the name. Or anything that suggests we're there for dating or meeting in real life. Just sayin... ;)

thegooddoctor
11-25-2015, 07:31 PM
OK. There's a lot go through here, and I honestly don't have the time today to sit and do all the quotes etc. so I'm just going to make a few points.

I did discuss ModelNet with my models. I held a webinar with the initial models that signed up, and I discussed it with them. I'm sorry that newer models didn't get that memo, but the a good portion of the models on the site are already aware of it.

Transparency does not mean that I have to tell everyone every minute detail of ever little thing that I do, every thing that I test, or every business decision I make. What it does mean is that I don't try to specifically hide anything. And I don't. But the fact of the matter is that my company isn't a democracy. No one but me is responsible for the wellbeing of the company, so I get to make the decisions. I try to make fair decisions, and I appreciate input and feedback, but at the end of the day I'm the one who is responsible. I'm sorry if you don't like all of the decisions I make, but this is how it is and it's impossible to make everyone happy all the time, though I do try my best.

I'm sorry if you don't like ModelNet, but it honestly is not nearly as big of a deal as it's being made out to be in this thread. It's a handful of low traffic sites who have the ability to share models for filler when there aren't enough models on any one specific site, and it gives the models a little bit of extra revenue. I really find it distasteful to be painted with the brush that I'm "pimping" my models out to other sites when all I'm trying to do is generate a little extra income for my models that I barely see a dime of, and in some very specific cases, actually lose money on. It's way off base to accuse me of cutting my models out and just making a profit, when I have done nothing but right by them. If that's honestly what is felt, then you really haven't been paying attention.

Re: the statement someone made about the fact that it was worrysome that I haven't paid off the site software yet, and implying that it would mean that I won't be able to pay my models. I don't have a lot of money to spare because my models get over half of the income generated, and that money goes to them first, which doesn't leave me with much to pay off a piece of software that costs thousands of dollars. If you must know, I'm paying it off a little bit each month. The cost of the software comes out of my profits, AFTER my expenses, again, the largest and most important of which is PAYING MY MODELS.

There was also a statement made about me watching shows. Yeah, I occasionally hang out in the model's rooms. I talk to the models. I talk to the members. These people are, for the most part, my friends. I built this site for them. If someone has a problem, I pop in and help to fix it. If someone has a feature request, we discuss what they want, and I jot it down to see if I can add it. The people on my site are my friends. I built this site for them too. I'm not going to sit up in an ivory tower now just because I own the website. Furthermore, it's not uncommon for site staff to be in model's rooms. Kink Live had KinkHelp who was in model's rooms and no one complained about that. I'm just not a faceless "help" user. I'm a real person. I'm approachable and I'm helpful. If you came on the site and hung out for a bit, I can guarantee you that "creepy" is not my vibe.

Also someone said something about the agreement not being changed, and that being enough to not sign up. Sites change their terms all the time. All they say is "this is the new agreement. Sign it" or you can't work there. Again, at least I'm telling you that it's a work in progress, and furthermore, have you actually read it? There's nothing in there that's particularly different than any other site. When I eventually do update it, I will be LOOSENING the restrictions that are in that agreement. Furthermore, I'm sorry that you feel that it's a higher priority than I do, but frankly, it just isn't my top priority, and referencing what I said earlier, I'm the one who gets to make that call. I simply have more important things to do with my time and money, like make sure the site actually runs properly, than pay a $600/ hour lawyer (and no, I'm not being hyperbolic here. This is actually how much my lawyer costs) to update a document that pretty much no one is going to read anyway. When I have the time and the money to spare, it will get updated. Until then, the basic documents that the software comes with will just have to do.

Luna66
11-25-2015, 07:51 PM
Every time someone has brought up an issue in this thread, either in a polite or not so polite manner, you have responded in a way that, to me, is unnecessarily defensive and testy. And also, I don't know if this is a weird energy i'm picking up for no reason or if other people feel it too, but i'm getting a manner of superiority. Like you know and understand sooooo much more than us. I know you said you didn't specifically come here to advertise to models or to get people to sign up, but this is a model forum and by posting here, you are representing yourself and your site to models. Whether you came here with the intention of doing that or not, that is what you are doing. And I honestly find you kinda grating. Again, could just be me...

If you "just honestly don't have the time to do all the quotes and everything", I won't either because i'm not going to sign up for the site either way and it's almost 3am right now in my part of the world and I need to go to bed. But I wish I had the time and energy to dedicate because I disagree with almost everything you've said.

Tsani
11-25-2015, 10:22 PM
I really find it distasteful to be painted with the brush that I'm "pimping" my models out to other sites

Nobody said you were pimping. If you're referring to what I said here:


I'm glad that the pay cut from network sites doesn't come out of our percentage. I think that was one of the main concerns, webmasters pimping us out, getting their cut and us seeing none of it.

Please note the bolded text. I was basically saying I'm glad you're NOT pimping us. You cleared that up. We may have initially thought you were, but it would appear that you are not, since you clarified the pay percentage breakdown. I know you're not making an extra profit off of the ModelNet thing and that it's mainly a means to get more traffic and income for everyone.

I know it's late, you're tired, I'm tired, everyone's tired. I just wanted to clear up that nobody called you a pimp in this thread (I did a ctrl + f search to see if I missed something).

I don't really feel like commenting on anything else right now. Have a good night everyone!

sexysusie
11-26-2015, 05:08 AM
I don't know if this is a weird energy i'm picking up for no reason or if other people feel it too, but i'm getting a manner of superiority. Like you know and understand sooooo much more than us.

^^ Yup

eroteea
11-26-2015, 09:57 AM
The checks come in a plain envelope. I generally put an address label on them that says Dr. Clockwork LLC which is my parent company for the site (I run it under my other company's tax id). I don't need to put my address label on your check though. That said, direct deposit is an available option, so you don't have to worry about checks at all.

on the bottom of the Agreement is mentioned Lucid Entertainment, LLC , is it sure Dr. Clockwork LLC on checks/wire, or Lucid Entertainment, LLC ?