Log in

View Full Version : Support for Kesha



Pages : 1 [2]

simone87
02-25-2016, 09:49 PM
I'm not posting threads where the blues can comment on them anymore. Misandry seems to make more sense as time goes on...

The replies here are actually seriously disturbing me. The minute a rape victim comes forward it becomes battle of the sexes for these idiots. Fucking gross.

Dominic.2
02-25-2016, 10:30 PM
It's an outright epidemic on college campuses now, which is where that ridiculous "1 in 5 women have been sexually assaulted" stat was born. idk dude. I've seen stats that seem to suggest the number is closer to 1 in 3 (Either on college campuses or the general public). And when you actually talk to some women, and get them actually open up honestly, the 1 in 3 number (let alone 1 in 5) doesn't see too far-fetched (IMO). There are a lot of women out there suppressing this and under-reporting this.

I know with CSU (Cleveland State University), they switched over to a newer culture of violent crime reporting (including public disclosure) and the public's perception was, Cleveland (at least the university) starting to become a cesspool since there seemed to be an EXPLOSION in violent crimes (not just sex crimes against women, but that was included too). The investigations in the "increases" seemed to show that there was in fact NO MEASURABLE INCREASE. It was just all of the unreported crimes that were actually occurring all along, were suddenly being accounted for, reported and publically disclosed in email digests to the community, current faculty, students, and staff on a daily basis.

How fkd up is that?

And Rick, as someone with a wife and daughters, (not to mention your frequent dealings with dancers,) I am sort of surprised to see this post penned from your keyboard-- on a sex worker support site dominated by women, no less. That post doesn't seem to take the stance of someone who supports dancers. Smh.

rickdugan
02-26-2016, 07:57 AM
Sexual assault is a serious crime and it deserves to be treated seriously. When hysteria starts taking over, it becomes impossible to separate the real crimes from the noise. God forefend one of my princesses ever be assaulted, but if that tragedy ever happens, I want it to taken seriously and receive the concentrated attention that it deserves. That won't happen if it gets lumped in with buyer's remorse cases, outright false accusations leveled for opportunism or simple revenge, questionable situations being blown into major allegations, and all the other shit that happens when raw emotional group outrage starts trumping common sense. That also won't happen if the public becomes desensitized to the real issues because of the misuse of obviously absurd stats derived through agenda driven polling.

Shame on all of those people who are making a caricature of serious sexual assault issues. That includes Kesha, who, after many years of working with the guy, finally decided to use the allegation first as a blackmail weapon and then, when she didn't get what she wanted, as a commercial lever to void a contract. Shame on her for using a sexual abuse allegation like that. Shame on her for cheapening it in the eyes of all too many people who, right or wrong, will view this as another dubious allegation from a woman with an agenda. Rather than promote women's interest, she probably set them back.

It is because of my daughters that I want these issues to receive real, thoughtful attention rather than hysterical noise. Not only for the reason previously stated (so that they will be taken seriously if they ever do make a complaint), but for their future career interests as well. After Kesha's antics, what male producer will ever want to be alone with a female artist again? We are already seeing a version of this in the corporate world, where male managers refuse to mentor younger women one-on-one for fear of being accused of sexual harassment. Shit like this helps nobody, male or female.

miss.a.p1600
02-26-2016, 08:48 AM
Sexual assault is a serious crime and it deserves to be treated seriously. When hysteria starts taking over, it becomes impossible to separate the real crimes from the noise. God forefend one of my princesses ever be assaulted, but if that tragedy ever happens, I want it to taken seriously and receive the concentrated attention that it deserves. That won't happen if it gets lumped in with buyer's remorse cases, outright false accusations leveled for opportunism or simple revenge, questionable situations being blown into major allegations, and all the other shit that happens when raw emotional group outrage starts trumping common sense. That also won't happen if the public becomes desensitized to the real issues because of the misuse of obviously absurd stats derived through agenda driven polling.

Shame on all of those people who are making a caricature of serious sexual assault issues. That includes Kesha, who, after many years of working with the guy, finally decided to use the allegation first as a blackmail weapon and then, when she didn't get what she wanted, as a commercial lever to void a contract. Shame on her for using a sexual abuse allegation like that. Shame on her for cheapening it in the eyes of all too many people who, right or wrong, will view this as another dubious allegation from a woman with an agenda. Rather than promote women's interest, she probably set them back.

It is because of my daughters that I want these issues to receive real, thoughtful attention rather than hysterical noise. Not only for the reason previously stated (so that they will be taken seriously if they ever do make a complaint), but for their future career interests as well. After Kesha's antics, what male producer will ever want to be alone with a female artist again? We are already seeing a version of this in the corporate world, where male managers refuse to mentor younger women one-on-one for fear of being accused of sexual harassment. Shit like this helps nobody, male or female.

but you saying "shame on her" is doing exactly what you're saying not to do. You are blindly supporting this man when you have no evidence he's not lying.

You're automatically assuming she is lying. That's not cool. For all we know this Luke character could be lying.

If Kesha is lying she should be punished for making false allegations and if Luke is lying he should be Punished , but no one knows the truth except them two and perhaps god if you're religious.

You weren't there. None of us were. To assume the Kesha is lying is an error and to assume Luke is lying is also an error.

BabyWillow
02-26-2016, 09:35 AM
But Kesha lied, that is a fact. It is true rape is one of the worst crimes you can commit and it shouldn't be handled so carelessly in a court of law. The media is convicting Dr. Luke of rape, and this happens so often where someone is accused of rape, and social media takes over and convicts that person, just to find out months later it was a false accusation. Media needs to stay of this and let the courts decide. Those innocent people are forever labeled as a rapist when they never committed the crime.

I understand rape and abuse are hard to deal with but when you're under oath you have to tell the entire truth. You can't rely on your unstable emotions to change what you said in front of a judge.

It's sad because Kesha had the potential to inspire so many victims to be courageous and strong during hard times like that, but instead she is relying on lies (whether or not she was raped, she lied in court) for an excuse to cancel a viable contract. :\

rickdugan
02-26-2016, 09:36 AM
but you saying "shame on her" is doing exactly what you're saying not to do. You are blindly supporting this man when you have no evidence he's not lying.

You're automatically assuming she is lying. That's not cool. For all we know this Luke character could be lying.

If Kesha is lying she should be punished for making false allegations and if Luke is lying he should be Punished , but no one knows the truth except them two and perhaps god if you're religious.

You weren't there. None of us were. To assume the Kesha is lying is an error and to assume Luke is lying is also an error.

I'm not siding with him and I don't know what happened. What I am doing is questioning her sincerity and her motives based upon her own actions, as will many others who take a clear eyed view of all of this. I did so in this previous post:


I'd buy this whole argument that the alleged rape is the real issue here if she didn't go back to him over and over (and over and over and over) after that, but she did. She wasn't complaining when she was making money hand over fist or before that, when nobody knew her from a hole in the wall. The timing of the accusation was coldly calculated and only came out after she became famous and then didn't get what she wanted, which was her artistic and recording freedom. I have no idea what happened in 2005, but you don't just get to keep a rape allegation in your back pocket, for a solid decade, to use when it is most commercially convenient. You also don't get to use it to smear someone when they don't give you what you want or as a lever to get out of a good contract that made you famous in the first place.
And this...


But even if something did happen, she made her deal with the devil when she failed to stand on principle when it happened and instead continued to use him to chase fame and fortune. After a decade, she doesn't get to play the victim card now and pretend that she is standing on principle, not with the way that all of this went down. I don't buy those crocodile tears for a second, especially after the attempted blackmail in the email sent by her mother. IMHO this whole circus is a slap in the face to real victims, who all too often stay silent not because of a potential payday, but because of shame and fear and, when they do report it, do so out of pain and anger, not because it can be used as a tool for additional financial gain.

Sadly, it almost doesn't matter anymore if she is telling the truth or not because she didn't do the right thing when she should have and she's done all the wrong things since. Outside of this place and a more reactionary element of the population, how do you think most ordinary people view this whole thing? How she has coldly used this allegation makes a mockery of women who level legitimate sexual abuse allegations and it is bad for everyone, for all of the reasons stated in my last post.

Trem
02-26-2016, 09:37 AM
but you saying "shame on her" is doing exactly what you're saying not to do. You are blindly supporting this man when you have no evidence he's not lying.


Look i believe Kesha but this is not true. There IS evidence, a recording of Kesha saying under oath that none of this is true. One can personally believe her and still think that the court made the right decision.

miss.a.p1600
02-26-2016, 12:23 PM
I know it's not a good look to lie under oath because it ruins any credibility you have but I'm just thinking why would a person lie under oath??? People lie under oath for whatever reason (they get threatened, they're in a state of emotional trauma, etc) and that's not solid evidence.

Could it be possible she was emotionally traumatized / in denial during that time?

I don't know if she was really raped but sometimes rape victims go into shock and denial - like their mind doesn't process that rape happened to them or their mind "forgets" what happened to protect them emotionally. And it's not until some time later or some triggering event they realize what really happened.

Genoveve
02-26-2016, 03:04 PM
People can and do lie under oath(it's not like there's a truth serum involved or anything), so her statements under oath don't automatically 100% prove that she's now lying. There is still just as much of a chance that she's lying as there is she's telling the truth. I don't know why some of the men on here are gunning for her to be a liar so badly when it's completely 50/50. Yes there's plenty of false rape accusations that go on in the world but there's plenty of true ones, so unless someone 100% knows the facts why argue so vehemently for either side? I personally believe Kesha but that's just my gut feeling, obviously I have no proof so I'm not trying to declare her absolute innocence here because I can't, but no one here can declare her absolute guilt either.

Legally I do not think she has a case, but just because something isn't 'legally true' doesn't mean it never happened.

I feel like some people here really do think that the legal system is sacred and divine. You do know that innocent people get convicted right?

oldster
02-26-2016, 04:08 PM
Exactly Genoveve, the legal system is not the be all and end all, but there are people here saying she should win her case in legal court because of this, and that is problematic

I will say this, look at the powers that be in this [and most] countries, and lower the burden of proof for a civil or criminal case to the standard of he/she said so, and I will promise you it will be implemented in the most misogynistic way possible

So while I will disagree with the tone of some of my blue compatriots, I do not believe what they are intending to say is anti woman

Omegaphallic
02-26-2016, 05:03 PM
Yes innocent people get convicted and that's a solid reason to work to improve the system, not throw out due process. Look is there a possiblity that he really drug and rape, yes but there is no actual evidence beyond a witness whose proven untrust worthy. And there IS evidence she's doing this to get out of contract, she has a motive to be lying about this.

I don't want her to be lying, its already been establish is either lied under oath or now, and either Kesha or Lady Gaga is lying about weather or not Dr. Luke raped Lady Gaga. If Dr. Luke really did rape Kesha, I hope she finds the evidence she needs and bring actual charges against him, but right now he isn't actually being charged with rape. If he didn't and Kesha is doing this to get out of contract then I hope he sues her till she's back to the poverty where he first found her.

Look no one is saying they hope Dr. Luke raped Kesha and gets away with it, but either Dr. Luke or Kesha have done something horrible and right now the evidence is pointing at Kesha. If that changes I will act accordingly.

And at this point its simply wrong to treat Dr. Luke as some sort of monster based only on an unreliable accusation and an idealogical belief that women don't lie about these things or that even if they do the damage done to men is acceptable losses.

And you guys talk about your worry for you daughters, but what's worse the possiblity that one of them gets raped (I hope that never ever happens) and the perp gets away with it, but she heals and goes on to have a wonderful life or your son gets a false accusation and get sent to prison for a rape he didn't do for years or decades, maybe even commits suicide over it?

And its not just bad for men, there was a woman raped and she accused the wrong man of it who went to jail, because the police "believed women" and didn't do a proper investigation including testing the DNA in the rape kit.

If they had questioned things and done a proper investigation they'd have found he didn't do it and the girl the real rapist raped and murdered would still be alive.

This isn't about hating women, this is about tough love.

Genoveve
02-26-2016, 05:22 PM
And there IS evidence she's doing this to get out of contract, she has a motive to be lying about this.

A theoretical motive is not hard evidence. ?


this is about tough love.

Huh?

ScarletKitten
02-26-2016, 11:14 PM
OH MY GOD so you're a dude too???????????!!!
.
.
.
.
.

Psych I did know that one.

LOL, this made me laugh for some reason.

ScarletKitten
02-26-2016, 11:16 PM
I'm not actually a misandrist, just FYI. There are men in my life that I absolutely adore, and there are some really amazing men on this planet. But some posts in this thread were irritating, but then I realized not all of them were male. Haha. So there you go. Both men and women can be equally irritating. So there's your equality right there.

Anyway, I'm gonna go zen now. Ohhhmmmm......

Djoser
02-27-2016, 05:40 AM
I feel like some people here really do think that the legal system is sacred and divine. You do know that innocent people get convicted right?

Well said. Always like reading your posts.

Many thanks to all of you for keeping cool.

Djoser
02-27-2016, 05:42 AM
both men and women can be equally irritating. So there's your equality right there.


exactly

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Trem
02-27-2016, 02:57 PM
But some posts in this thread were irritating, but then I realized not all of them were male. Haha.

You didn't know about the little ribbons either did ya?