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Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 09:34 AM
I've already said I don't care for Trump or his style. I've criticized him for a lot of things but one thing I've been leery of are accusations that he's a "sexist " or a "misogynist ".

1. A lot of women work for him and have nothing but nice things to say about him. There are women who have worked for him for DECADES.

2. Not a single one of his "victims" ever filed a complaint with the police. Or sued him for battery ; or sexual harassment.

3. Those of you gleefully piling on Trump - Were you equally outraged by Bill Clinton's behavior ? By numerous accusations that he was a RAPIST ? Nobody , N O B O D Y has ever accused Trump of rape or any kind of sexual assault beyond unwanted or inappropriate touching. And not a single one of his alleged "victims" ever did anything about it.
Those of you outraged by how he has talked about women - Were you equally outraged by how Kennedy and JFK spoke about women ? Yes, I know that was a different time - the "Don Draper Mad Men" era. Then how about how Bill Clinton spoke about women ? How about his refusal to acknowledge his illegitimate son in Arkansas ? A simple DNA test could put that one to bed.

My point is that there are legitimate concerns about Trump. Things to be genuinely concerned about that there's no need to manufacture fear and concern. I am NOT defending or excusing his behavior BUT there have been times in my life and for most men when we were very glad that there wasn't a microphone around. Good friends of mine have worked for Trump on his security staff and spent a LOT of time with him and around him and they all say that he is a total gentleman. That he is very polite and very considerate . Hillary has a totally different reputation that is well documented. Assignment to her Secret Service detail was universally dreaded and looked on as punishment. Not Bill. The former Secret Service guys I know ( a couple of whom worked for me when I was in the security biz ) ALL said he was a nice guy but that his wife and daughter were total "b-words".

Bill Clinton was an adolescent pig when it came to women and yet he was a pretty good President. So was JFK. So even if Trump is half the sex crazed jerk some are painting him to be then he could still do an excellent job as President. Now I am NOT comparing anyone in this discussion to Hitler but he was well known for being a prude. And extremely courtly, polite and considerate to women. Carter only lusted in his heart and was a lousy President. So long as Trump keeps it in his pants and focuses on his duties, his past peccadillos are going to be quite irrelevant indeed .

miss.a.p1600
11-11-2016, 09:48 AM
This is where it gets sticky and where EVERYONE needs to take a deep breath and try to relax. We are veering toward emotional as opposed to factual arguments and it doesn't take much for one or two posters to lose their cool and start with the name-calling.

If Obama and Trump can be civil toward each other then so can all of us. And they can't stand each other. If Obama can smile and campaign for Hillary , If Ryan and McConnell and a host of other "Never Trumpers" can accept the result of the election then so can all of us.

I have been saddened by listening to guys like Van Jones and Al Sharpton complain that this election was racial. They obviously didn't look at the numbers. As other posters have noted , Trump got more Black , Latino and Asian votes than Romney did. Hillary got fewer black votes than Obama did. You wanna know why she lost Ohio and Pa. ? A lot of black voters in Cleveland , Pittsburgh and Philly stayed home . If you want to blame somebody, blame Hillary. Or blame Warren for not running . Or Biden BUT he had a great reason not to as he was mourning the death of his son.

Generally the tone of this thread has been excellent. Everyone is having their say and venting within reasonable parameters. And that's fine. If I'd supported Hillary ; if I was so anxious to see a female President that I was willing to overlook a lot of things ; if I'd bought into the polls and media reports on Tuesday BEFORE the results came in I too would be very disappointed.

Likewise , one reason I did NOT vote for Trump is I didn't like him. I didn't like his rhetoric. I didn't like him mocking a disabled person. I didn't like him going after a "Gold Star Family ". I give him a pass on Rosie O'Donnell because 1. she started it and 2. has said worse things about him . I don't want him to build a wall. I do however want him to keep us safe and there are people in this world that wish us harm. Just add up all the terrorist attacks IN the U.S. AFTER 9/11. Should we ban all Muslims ? No and Trump is NOT going to do it. Should we vet them carefully ? Absolutely and as president Trump has the power and discretion to enforce the immigration laws. He NEVER said that he was going to have mass roundups of Muslims or an "Operation Wetback " as Eisenhower and FDR both did. Yeah, that's right. FDR was not much of a libertarian. So when Van Jones makes up silly stories of his Muslim friends calling him with irrational worries or Latinos LEGALLY in this country fearing deportation it doesn't help matters. We all know what Sharpton is and if he didn't say something inflammatory and factually delinquent he'd be rendered totally mute.

Some people are talking and behaving as though Trump led a military coup. Or Republicans were caught stuffing the ballot box. Hillary lost AN ELECTION. Now let's see how Trump governs. I cautiously predict that IF he focuses on improving the economy and keeping us safe he may very well be a very good President. If he gets distracted by silly stuff ,if he gets down in the gutter with his opponents and critics then he is likely to be a one-term President.

There were a lot of people who didn't like it when Obama won. ( I voted for him in 2008 btw ) And there was some of this " Not My President " nonsense that we are seeing and hearing now. Those people were just as wrong as those holding up those signs now. YES HE WAS ( Obama ). YES HE IS ( Trump ). If you don't like his policy proposals then there will be plenty of time and opportunity to protest , peacefully demonstrate and vote for those who promise to oppose his policies. Why are those demonstrators trashing downtown Portland or smashing the car windows of people who voted for Hillary ?

Earl Warren knew Nixon well. Nixon was a California congressman when Warren was governor. Then Eisenhower appointed him to the SCOTUS. Nixon and Warren couldn't stand each other . And yet Warren always showed Nixon respect when he was President. When asked why Warren said : "Respect the office , not the man." The military has a corollary : "We salute the rank not the person." If we are going to have a civil society and a civil board here at S-Web then we all have to respect each other and our right to opinions.Especially opinions that we don't like or agree with. We can all agree about the lunatic fringes . There is no reason to respect Nazi or Klan ideas and anyone that espouses them. That's not what we are talking about . I disagree with Eagle all the time about many things. But I always try to be civil with him and he with me. Let's all try to do likewise and this can really be a fun and educational board. We have already seen a wide variety of views and postings and I think it is great. How boring would this board be if always agreed with each other about everything ? But let's keep it civil and be VERY careful about any racial element.

Wishing well to one and all.


Trump was never civil with Obama. He spread rumors publicly to mass media about Obama's place of birth and riled his followers to do the same. He's only civil because he HAS to. The SAME man who question his predecessor presidency being legitimate and now people are supposed to respect a president-elect who could't himself respect the process?????

But I can see what you're saying. I don't believe I called game over any names but if I did I can edit. I just can't wrap my mind around his comment about white men being screwed for years when they are and have been at the top of the power hierarchy.

And I like the quote about respect the office. If respect is mutual though - do you think Trump will respect the American people that he disrespected/ranted against in the media? Or is that something only time will tell?

People are protesting trump because of his negative actions (like admitting to grabbing woman by the pussy), his ignorant comments in the media , etc. As far as I know Obama didn't make hate speech (with the exception of calling Kanye West a Jackass), he wasn't trying to oppress anyone, nor was his personal life riddled with lawsuits and scandals. So people protesting obama looked like they're were doing so because of fear of having for the first time a non full white president.

As far as the violence goes - which I disagree with. The crowd mentality takes a life of its own and sometimes the outcome is dangerous. This is something Sociologist analyze and study.

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 09:57 AM
Lol "white people have better houses, schools, education, jobs, etc cause maybe we're just BETTER!" Oh fucking gag me with a spoon. Incredibly naive, detached from reality and pompous, will somebody get this troll out before he fucks this thread up plZ? I say this as a white person. Ew.

You are referencing exactly what I posted about ( supra ). You are critiquing the other side of the coin from what guys like Van Jones , Charles Blow and Sharpton have been saying. Race has been injected where it either doesn't belong or doesn't even exist.

Were some Trump voters racist ? I am sure.
Are there negative connotations to "Take back our country " ; "give us our country back " etc. ? Absolutely.
Would I have liked it if Trump had clearly repudiated racism and bigotry ? Yes. He was too lukewarm and too wishy-washy for my taste.
And yet there are numerous reports that Trump was deeply moved when he was driven through Detroit and some other depressed areas heavily populated by blacks and Latinos and that he is genuinely interested in reviving the economy and helping those areas. He has expressed disgust with the murder rate in Chicago where almost all the victims are black. Doesn't sound very racist to me.

JFK never personally knew a black or Latino person in his life. Except maybe Sammy Davis Jr.
Johnson was known to use the "n-word " . Truman used it all the time yet he was the one who de-segregated the military.
Fulbright was a horrible racist yet he opposed the Vietnam War early on.
So was Al Gore's father and Sam Ervin was a horrible segregationist and obstructionist in the U.S. Senate.
Reagan was tone deaf on racial matters yet the black middle class exploded in size under his Presidency.
Bush The Dumber didn't have a racist bone in his body. Nobody , N O B O D Y did more to fight Aids and other diseases in Africa than he did. He was still one of our ten worst Presidents imho.

All I am arguing for is a little patience. The guy hasn't even been sworn in yet. Let's see who some of his appointments are. Lets' see what his policies turn out to be . Even IF he really is a misogynist or a sexist or even a racist ( which I honestly don't believe ) he still might be a successful President.

miss.a.p1600
11-11-2016, 09:58 AM
I've already said I don't care for Trump or his style. I've criticized him for a lot of things but one thing I've been leery of are accusations that he's a "sexist " or a "misogynist ".

1. A lot of women work for him and have nothing but nice things to say about him. There are women who have worked for him for DECADES.

2. Not a single one of his "victims" ever filed a complaint with the police. Or sued him for battery ; or sexual harassment.

3. Those of you gleefully piling on Trump - Were you equally outraged by Bill Clinton's behavior ? By numerous accusations that he was a RAPIST ? Nobody , N O B O D Y has ever accused

1. I guessing these women look a certain way.

2. How hard do you think it would be to prove a sexual assault (one on one with no witnesses) against a billionaire narcissist?



You are referencing exactly what I posted about ( supra ). You are critiquing the other side of the coin from what guys like Van Jones , Charles Blow and Sharpton have been saying. Race has been injected where it either doesn't belong or doesn't even exist.

Were some Trump voters racist ? I am sure.
Are there negative connotations to "Take back our country " ; "give us our country back " etc. ? Absolutely.
Would I have liked it if Trump had clearly repudiated racism and bigotry ? Yes. He was too lukewarm and too wishy-washy for my taste.
And yet there are numerous reports that Trump was deeply moved when he was driven through Detroit and some other depressed areas heavily populated by blacks and Latinos and that he is genuinely interested in reviving the economy and helping those areas. He has expressed disgust with the murder rate in Chicago where almost all the victims are black. Doesn't sound very racist to me.

Soooo....He's damn near 70 and hasn't cared about that until now.....Id like to believe his concern is genuine but.....when you trying to win, you'll say anything.



JFK never personally knew a black or Latino person in his life. Except maybe Sammy Davis Jr.
Johnson was known to use the "n-word " . Truman used it all the time yet he was the one who de-segregated the military.
Fulbright was a horrible racist yet he opposed the Vietnam War early on.
So was Al Gore's father and Sam Ervin was a horrible segregationist and obstructionist in the U.S. Senate.
Reagan was tone deaf on racial matters yet the black middle class exploded in size under his Presidency.
Bush The Dumber didn't have a racist bone in his body. Nobody , N O B O D Y did more to fight Aids and other diseases in Africa than he did. He was still one of our ten worst Presidents imho.

All I am arguing for is a little patience. The guy hasn't even been sworn in yet. Let's see who some of his appointments are. Lets' see what his policies turn out to be . Even IF he really is a misogynist or a sexist or even a racist ( which I honestly don't believe ) he still might be a successful President.

Yes. I don't want to believe he's sexist or racist either but his past actions speak otherwise.

Examples of his sexist comments:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/donald-trump-sexism-tracker-every-offensive-comment-in-one-place/
https://www.bustle.com/articles/131835-the-9-most-sexist-donald-trump-quotes-from-2015-are-honestly-just-the-tip-of-the

Some examples of his racist comments:
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racism-history
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/opinion/sunday/is-donald-trump-a-racist.html?_r=0
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/donald-trump-amplifies-racist-attacks-mexican-muslim-judges-article-1.2662144

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 10:08 AM
Trump was never civil with Obama. He spread rumors publicly to mass media about Obama's place of birth and riled his followers to do the same. He's only civil because he HAS to. The SAME man who question his predecessor presidency being legitimate and now people are supposed to respect a president-elect who could't himself respect the process?????

But I can see what you're saying. I don't believe I called game over any names but if I did I can edit. I just can't wrap my mind around his comment about white men being screwed for years when they are and have been at the top of the power hierarchy.

And I like the quote about respect the office. If respect is mutual though - do you think Trump will respect the American people that he disrespected/ranted against in the media? Or is that something only time will tell?

People are protesting trump because of his negative actions (like admitting to grabbing woman by the pussy), his ignorant comments in the media , etc. As far as I know Obama didn't make hate speech (with the exception of calling Kanye West a Jackass), he wasn't trying to oppress anyone, nor was his personal life riddled with lawsuits and scandals. So people protesting obama looked like they're were doing so because of fear of having for the first time a non full white president.

As far as the violence goes - which I disagree with. The crowd mentality takes a life of its own and sometimes the outcome is dangerous. This is something Sociologist analyze and study.

Trump DID fall in with the whole stupid "Birther " crowd. Shame on him. But now that the election is over he has said and done the gracious thing . So has Obama.

When did Trump ever say that : "White men have been screwed for years ? " He didn't. BUT I am sure a lot of his white male supporters feel that way. This is why I am always leery about elevating feelings over facts.

You ask a good question about whether Trump will respect some of the people he has disrespected ? He ought to. I hope he does. And if he doesn't he'll get bitch slapped for it. With justice. So far he has kept it under control. Let's hope it continues.

I was disgusted by some of Trump's "locker room talk " with Billy Bush. It's not clear if he was speaking literally or figuratively about "grabbing them by the pussy " but he should be ashamed either way and he DID apologize. For PRIVATE off the record remarks that he made ELEVEN years ago .

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 10:16 AM
^^^ What about the woman who claimed she was groped on a full airplane ? The first class section was FULL and nobody witnessed Trump sexually assaulting her ?
And there are similar holes in the stories of all his other accusers.

Where has Trump been until this election ? New York. Europe , Japan . California . Florida. He never saw Detroit or the South Side of Chicago or parts of Cleveland and Toledo because he never had a reason to go there. There was no market for his luxury housing and hotels in those areas. The same thing happened to RFK when he finally SAW , personally saw Watts , Bed-Stuy ( the Bed -Stuy of the 60's was a LOT worse than Bed-Stuy today ) and black areas of the rural Deep South.

We had a rabbit like you
11-11-2016, 10:36 AM
Eric, I agree about the clintons as well as past presidents being, well, scumbags. I wrote about it a couple pages back. This entire election and those before it have been about "choosing the lesser of the two evils" and people desperately ignoring and overlooking inexcusable behaviour of their preferred candidate like a horse w blinders on. Why do we have to choose evil at all?? Am I just being naive? None of these candidates knows what it's like to live as an average middle class joe, much less live like the poor among us. It's not like either of them have ever gone to bed hungry or lived in their car or stayed up worrying about buying their kids clothes for the winter. Why do I have to choose between evils and people just keep voting in rich out of touch entitled douches every year. Sigh. Yeah I'm old enough to know it won't change but I'm not happy about it.

As for specifically trump, as a sexual assault survivor a lot of the stuff he said hit a raw nerve w me. The military women "deserving it" and grabbing women and getting away w it. I'm sure most powerful politicans do that and feel entitled but he was just more.."out there" w it

baer45
11-11-2016, 10:43 AM
Just when you thought you finally got rid of clintons.
Chelsea Clinton could take the seat of Rep Nita Lowey, in New York's 17th Congressional District

luna93
11-11-2016, 10:52 AM
I've already said I don't care for Trump or his style. I've criticized him for a lot of things but one thing I've been leery of are accusations that he's a "sexist " or a "misogynist ".

1. A lot of women work for him and have nothing but nice things to say about him. There are women who have worked for him for DECADES.

2. Not a single one of his "victims" ever filed a complaint with the police. Or sued him for battery ; or sexual harassment.

3. Those of you gleefully piling on Trump - Were you equally outraged by Bill Clinton's behavior ? By numerous accusations that he was a RAPIST ? Nobody , N O B O D Y has ever accused Trump of rape or any kind of sexual assault beyond unwanted or inappropriate touching. And not a single one of his alleged "victims" ever did anything about it.
Those of you outraged by how he has talked about women - Were you equally outraged by how Kennedy and JFK spoke about women ? Yes, I know that was a different time - the "Don Draper Mad Men" era. Then how about how Bill Clinton spoke about women ? How about his refusal to acknowledge his illegitimate son in Arkansas ? A simple DNA test could put that one to bed.

My point is that there are legitimate concerns about Trump. Things to be genuinely concerned about that there's no need to manufacture fear and concern. I am NOT defending or excusing his behavior BUT there have been times in my life and for most men when we were very glad that there wasn't a microphone around. Good friends of mine have worked for Trump on his security staff and spent a LOT of time with him and around him and they all say that he is a total gentleman. That he is very polite and very considerate . Hillary has a totally different reputation that is well documented. Assignment to her Secret Service detail was universally dreaded and looked on as punishment. Not Bill. The former Secret Service guys I know ( a couple of whom worked for me when I was in the security biz ) ALL said he was a nice guy but that his wife and daughter were total "b-words".

Bill Clinton was an adolescent pig when it came to women and yet he was a pretty good President. So was JFK. So even if Trump is half the sex crazed jerk some are painting him to be then he could still do an excellent job as President. Now I am NOT comparing anyone in this discussion to Hitler but he was well known for being a prude. And extremely courtly, polite and considerate to women. Carter only lusted in his heart and was a lousy President. So long as Trump keeps it in his pants and focuses on his duties, his past peccadillos are going to be quite irrelevant indeed .

I have read personal accounts of women he worked for being assaulted by him...

The woman with the most current rape charge against him called it off because she was getting DEATH THREATS and feared for her life. Considering the acts of hate that have happened over the past couple of days from his supporters, drunk with power, this shouldn't be surprising.

To say that 12 women (I'm talking about the 12 that all came out to the public, 3 of them filing charges for rape) are lying?

How long did it take for Bill Cosbys victims to come out? Those women didn't file charges. Were they lying? No.

Guess what. When your abuser is a powerful person, a famous billionaire white man, no less, people are going to protect him.

Also, I'm not sure how bringing up past presidents being abusers negates the fact that trump is.

miss.a.p1600
11-11-2016, 10:53 AM
I do notice that these last three or so days Donald Trump is not talking and tweeting in the same manner he did before. Maybe his narcissistic supply is full - since he's in now - and he has no need to draw negative fuel from petty arguments.

Oprah said she thought he looked humbled.

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 11:08 AM
Eric, I agree about the clintons as well as past presidents being, well, scumbags. I wrote about it a couple pages back. This entire election and those before it have been about "choosing the lesser of the two evils" and people desperately ignoring and overlooking inexcusable behaviour of their preferred candidate like a horse w blinders on. Why do we have to choose evil at all?? Am I just being naive? None of these candidates knows what it's like to live as an average middle class joe, much less live like the poor among us. It's not like either of them have ever gone to bed hungry or lived in their car or stayed up worrying about buying their kids clothes for the winter. Why do I have to choose between evils and people just keep voting in rich out of touch entitled douches every year. Sigh. Yeah I'm old enough to know it won't change but I'm not happy about it.

As for specifically trump, as a sexual assault survivor a lot of the stuff he said hit a raw nerve w me. The military women "deserving it" and grabbing women and getting away w it. I'm sure most powerful politicans do that and feel entitled but he was just more.."out there" w it

I am sure Trump , Bill Clinton and others have taken license. That they have a feeling of entitlement . I do not excuse, condone or tolerate bad behavior by ANYBODY.

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 11:19 AM
I have read personal accounts of women he worked for being assaulted by him...

The woman with the most current rape charge against him called it off because she was getting DEATH THREATS and feared for her life. Considering the acts of hate that have happened over the past couple of days from his supporters, drunk with power, this shouldn't be surprising.

To say that 12 women (I'm talking about the 12 that all came out to the public, 3 of them filing charges for rape) are lying?

How long did it take for Bill Cosbys victims to come out? Those women didn't file charges. Were they lying? No.

Guess what. When your abuser is a powerful person, a famous billionaire white man, no less, people are going to protect him.

Also, I'm not sure how bringing up past presidents being abusers negates the fact that trump is.

Please name one woman Trump "worked for " who claims that he sexually assaulted them ? Btw, I am sure that Trump took liberties . That he touched and maybe even groped a few women in his time. But not a single one of them ever accused him of rape. Bill Clinton has been accused of RAPE by no less than three women who have come forward. Why are they any less believable than Trump's accusers ?

Cosby has not been convicted. Yet. Although I grant you it is highly probable that he is guilty of a number of sexual assaults. Not one of Trump's accusers has told a story remotely approaching the alleged depravity of Cosby.

Bill Clinton's accusers were savaged . You know who was in charge of harassing them ; threatening them ; digging up dirt and discrediting them ? Hillary. She hired the private investigators that went after Juanita Broderick and Kathleen Willey. Not to mention Jennifer Flowers.

I brought up other names to illustrate the difference between private and Presidential behavior ; to show that nobody is perfect and that people can change and grow in office . They can accomplish good things despite personal faults , flaws and shortcomings.

Nyla19
11-11-2016, 11:27 AM
^^^^ wow! You're really offensive and taking you're opinion too far. Remember, the mods warned about hitting below the belt. And to do that and say what you're saying about victims of sexual abuse is beyond disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. But I'm sure you will never get IT!!

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 11:51 AM
^^^^ wow! You're really offensive and taking you're opinion too far. Remember, the mods warned about hitting below the belt. And to do that and say what you're saying about victims of sexual abuse is beyond disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. But I'm sure you will never get IT!!

WHAT ? I am very sorry but what are you talking about ?

I am sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say. Unless it is that any accuser of someone you don't like or agree with has to automatically be believed ? And anyone who accuses someone you like and agree with is automatically a liar ? Is that really what you are trying to say ?

Do I believe that Trump behaved improperly and put his hands where they didn't belong ? Yeah. Him along with maybe a million other guys . And that's just in this country .
I never defended it. I never excused it. I never condoned it . All I said was : " Where are the police records ? Where are the lawsuits ? Why were there so many miraculous cures for so many amnesiacs all at once ? " And more importantly where was the similar outrage towards Bill Clinton ? Or Anthony Weiner ( the FIRST time - not his latest contact with female minors ) for that matter ? Or Jesse Jackson ?

Btw, why did Trump get so many votes from so many women ? Including college educated women ? What do you know that they don't ?

Maybe the women who voted for Trump were able to look past his past boorish behavior. Maybe they didn't believe that he was a sexist or misogynist .Or that his sexism and/or misogyny would not directly affect them .

Maybe they think that Roger Goodell is a horse's ass for saying that Trump's language and behavior make it harder for him to deal with cases of sexual assault and domestic violence in the NFL.

baer45
11-11-2016, 11:51 AM
I do notice that these last three or so days Donald Trump is not talking and tweeting in the same manner he did before. Maybe his narcissistic supply is full - since he's in now - and he has no need to draw negative fuel from petty arguments.

Oprah said she thought he looked humbled.

Brain filter mode = ON

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 11:52 AM
Btw - Some 100,000 voters in Flint , Michigan did not cast their votes for a Presidential candidate. Still can't figure out how and why Hillary lost ?

baer45
11-11-2016, 11:59 AM
Btw - Some 100,000 voters in Flint , Michigan did not cast their votes for a Presidential candidate. Still can't figure out how and why Hillary lost ?

Actually, it's way worse than that.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1nmGCXgAAto-O.jpg:large

Omegaphallic
11-11-2016, 12:17 PM
Thanks for clarifying a bit. And I am not saying people don't have rights to feelings and feeling how they want to feel.

However,

I wonder how some of these white men would feel if they woke up tomorrow as a woman or as a person of color or as a person with special needs, etc. Or as a group who as REALLY been oppressed for decades or longer.

White men Have been at the top of the power chain since ..... forever ..... and they're angry?!? For what???

Please give real example of groups of white men being oppressed? The only oppression they face is what they manufactured in their head when they thought that equality for all meant losing their power and privilege.

This, this silliness is part of why Trump won. Telling struggling white male blue collar workers who are unemployed, and suffering in all kinds of ways and yet are still expected to be responsible for everything, even as they're lives crumble, that they are in fact priveldged, that drove so many fucking white men to vote Trump and republicans before him, its the combination of demonization, loathing and lack of respect for millions of men who scarificed and scarificed for they're country and fo they're families that lead to this.

The Democracts used to be the party of blue class and even to a lesser degree white collar white labourers, but their not now, why, because an endless parade of lefties use every excuse to shit on them at every fucking turn.

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 12:23 PM
Let me just say this : The election gave Trump the opportunity to prove a lot of supposedly smart and knowledgeable people wrong . People who said he would never run. That it was all a publicity stunt. That he couldn't win the primaries. That he would never get the nomination. That he wouldn't win the election ; that women would never vote for him ; that he wouldn't get a single black or Latino vote.

Now he has the opportunity to govern and address a lot of serious problems. As Reagan did. To a lesser extent as Clinton did. As Obama did. Just to keep things within recent memory and history. He will either succeed or he will fail. If he succeeds the country will benefit. If he fails we all lose.

Why didn't Flint vote for Hillary ? Maybe because they are still drinking poisoned water under a Democrat President and two Democrat Senators.

Now we can let the media distract us with worries about his personal peccadillos or we can let the guy have a chance to DO things.

One of my many problems with Trump is I couldn't figure out whether he wanted to be President to DO things ( a la Reagan ) or BE President ( Bush The Smarter ). With Trump's ego it may very well be that he just wants to be President. Then he is very likely to fail. If on the other hand he concentrates on DOING things then he has the chance to be a good President. If he has learned to control himself , stop shooting from the lip and stay focused he can do a good job. If not , he may very well end up resigning either in disgust or disgrace. I doubt the latter but it is possible. We will see. We don't know. Trump's history is one of monumental successes ( The Grand Hyatt , Trump Tower ; Wollman Rink ) and failures ( Trump Air , his casinos , his "university " , his bankruptcies). We will see. He won and is thus entitled to the chance to govern.

baer45
11-11-2016, 12:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KKTZpsaTEg

Candycups
11-11-2016, 12:30 PM
His repeal of Obamacare has been making me pity money. My club is full of old white guys, most of them with money. Some of them are talking about holding off on selling their businesses until his 15% tax kicks in so they can keep a larger chunk of the money. All in all, they're extremely optimistic about their future money, and are celebrating by giving it away to us.

Trump sucks for me, personally in more than a few ways (so many assholes "grabbed me by the pussy" as a "joke" that one week, and it's been a theme this week too, since according to Trump, sex workers apparently don't need to provide consent and yaaaay he's the president so wooo lets assault all the girls at the strip club to celebrate I guess) but at least he's giving me money to help compensate. Business wise, he's been great. In every other aspect he's horrible, but at least we have a job that actually does see the benefits of trickle down economics. Business owners aren't going to actually give any of their civilian employees more benefits or a comparable pay raise, but they're more than happy to line their own pockets and then come straight to us to unlike them.

dancingdiva1
11-11-2016, 12:37 PM
Ya that extra $$$ will definetly be spent on therapy for many women suffering from ptsd later on. This is so depressing.

miss.a.p1600
11-11-2016, 12:38 PM
This, this silliness is part of why Trump won. Telling struggling white male blue collar workers who are unemployed, and suffering in all kinds of ways and yet are still expected to be responsible for everything, even as they're lives crumble, that they are in fact priveldged, that drove so many fucking white men to vote Trump and republicans before him, its the combination of demonization, loathing and lack of respect for millions of men who scarificed and scarificed for they're country and fo they're families that lead to this.

The Democracts used to be the party of blue class and even to a lesser degree white collar white labourers, but their not now, why, because an endless parade of lefties use every excuse to shit on them at every fucking turn.

First off don't call my thoughts silliness. I have not insulted anyone intentionally...

game over never said he was unemployed. Or blue collar.

And I also said he had a right to feel how he wanted to feel.

I was merely stating I couldn't understand his belief that "white men have been getting screwed for years" because as far as I am aware, if we were to classify humans on race and gender, on average white men are the most powerful group currently and in the past.

However if you disagree that's cool I will end with that so as to not have argument.

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 12:38 PM
This, this silliness is part of why Trump won. Telling struggling white male blue collar workers who are unemployed, and suffering in all kinds of ways and yet are still expected to be responsible for everything, even as they're lives crumble, that they are in fact priveldged, that drove so many fucking white men to vote Trump and republicans before him, its the combination of demonization, loathing and lack of respect for millions of men who scarificed and scarificed for they're country and fo they're families that lead to this.

The Democracts used to be the party of blue class and even to a lesser degree white collar white labourers, but their not now, why, because an endless parade of lefties use every excuse to shit on them at every fucking turn.

I don't think "oppressed " is the right word. I think "ignored " , "forgotten " and "taken for granted " fit much better. Plus I think some of them ARE tired of SOME of the racial bleating and complaining that the media loves to subject us to. Does anybody think Cornell West would get a minute of air-time if he were white ?

I am NOT talking about genuine black victims. The cop in South Carolina who shot the black guy in the back and then queered the crime scene , Eric Garner , that Zimmerman idiot. I've been saying for years that for every one of these cases for which there is a video there are at least 10 where something worse happened and there is no video. That it is still easier to have more opportunity if you are white and have MONEY. These days it is a lot less about race and a lot more about CLASS. The working and middle classes have been bent over and ass fucked by both parties for decades.

I'll give you an even better one - if we can agree that education is the best path out and up then would somebody tell me WHY black politicians have uniformly made common cause with the teachers unions ? Not the black and Latino COMMUNITIES. ? The parents KNOW their schools suck and desperately try to get their kids into charter or private schools. Who has presided over lousy schools for at least two generations ? Since the 1960's when teachers unions were permitted and recognized. The AFT and NEA. Who defends and supports systems where the worst teachers are sent to the worst schools ? The AFT and NEA. Who supports and defends mediocre teachers, period ! Who opposes charter schools ? The NEA , the AFT and their useful idiots in the Congress and state and local government like DeBlasio.

MissMoore
11-11-2016, 12:42 PM
Trump IMO is an insufferable bore.... people who are hoping he gets a nice car ride down to Texas like Kennedy better hope that day doesn't come. If Pence was to become prez..... we would be going back even further then we are now.

Pence hides behind the veil of christianity.... all while committing acts that are more like works of the devil. :) Pence as the Indiana governor has provided zero funding for homeless shelters, signed discrimination laws that targeted LGBT people, gave the biggest tax breaks to corporations, eliminated food stamps for 65,000 Indiana residents, etc.

I'm very confused when people foam at the mouth about paying taxes for food stamps, WIC, welfare but still want planned parenthood defunded. LOL Um.... if these woman have access to birth control and early term abortions.... there will be less mouths to feed! It is far cheaper to pay for birth control than it is kids for years. Obviously the whole abstinence thing didn't work out too well for the Bush admin.

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 12:44 PM
Of all people I think strippers ought to be willing to give Trump a chance. When were times good in the clubs ? During Clinton's second term when the economy was humming along. Ditto for Reagan's second term and Bush The Dumber's FIRST term. We haven't had anything remotely similar under eight years of Obama.

You may not like "trickle down " or a 15% Cap . Gains tax rate but those are just the sort of things that put more money into the pockets of more sexist horndogs that enables them to buy more lap-dances and VIP's. Making everybody poor doesn't help the bottom lines of dancers.

slowpoke
11-11-2016, 12:47 PM
Politicians have as their first priority self preservation. They are not going to oppose teacher unions.

Years of experience show that pouring money into the public education system does no good.

Eric Stoner
11-11-2016, 12:47 PM
Trump IMO is an insufferable bore.... people who are hoping he gets a nice car ride down to Texas like Kennedy better hope that day doesn't come. If Pence was to become prez..... we would be going back even further then we are now.

Pence hides behind the veil of christianity.... all while committing acts that are more like works of the devil. :) Pence as the Indiana governor has provided zero funding for homeless shelters, signed discrimination laws that targeted LGBT people, gave the biggest tax breaks to corporations, eliminated food stamps for 65,000 Indiana residents, etc.

I'm very confused when people foam at the mouth about paying taxes for food stamps, WIC, welfare but still want planned parenthood defunded. LOL Um.... if these woman have access to birth control and early term abortions.... there will be less mouths to feed! It is far cheaper to pay for birth control than it is kids for years. Obviously the whole abstinence thing didn't work out too well for the Bush admin.

Hey come on. Anybody hoping Trump gets assassinated is SICK ! That is way out of bounds and over the top.

Nyla19
11-11-2016, 12:49 PM
Of all people I think strippers ought to be willing to give Trump a chance. When were times good in the clubs ? During Clinton's second term when the economy was humming along. Ditto for Reagan's second term and Bush The Dumber's FIRST term. We haven't had anything remotely similar under eight years of Obama.

You may not like "trickle down " or a 15% Cap . Gains tax rate but those are just the sort of things that put more money into the pockets of more sexist horndogs that enables them to buy more lap-dances and VIP's. Making everybody poor doesn't help the bottom lines of dancers.


Of course! An insensitive man commenting on a strippers job. Makes a lot of sense! Maybe to some naive, not bright dancers. It doesn't work with with me. I'm smarter than that.

Omegaphallic
11-11-2016, 12:55 PM
White men being screwed over for years????

I thought your post was an April fools joke but it's October.

Um. Ok.

You'll neveR see an escort ad saying no white men allowed
There's a reason strippers flock to white customers over any other race
You'll never see a white man move into a majority non white area and property value drop.
Forbes list is majority white men
All the presidents except one was white
No one is threatening to deport white men
White men aren't systematically oppressed
At one point in time white men were the only ones who could vote
I could go on and on

Newsflash white men have held the power in many sectors for many centuries.

Please enlighten on how white men have been getting screwed? If you were screwed it's not cause you're white or anything related to your race.

And why is it so hard for racist people to admit they are racist? If a person thinks they are superior and is cool with oppression of people who are not white or full white ... own it.

And you vote for someone just to get revenge for your perceived "injustice"?!? I have No words for you.

Some segments still discriminate against black people, I don't care for that at all, and I said that's wrong my whole life.

But what is refering to is a specific segments society, mostly the left (and honestly in years past I was guilty of this at times), of discriminating and putting down white men.

Calling someone privledged tends to come off as a combo of calling them spoiled and ignorant, and when someone life is in the dumps, someone saying that will come off like a hot stinky bag of dog shit. Millions of men don't like it.

And again the African America community face serious discrimination, I've locked horns with Klan trash myself, I have Black Canadian family members, so this is an attempt to deny their struggles.

Its about amonishing a left who thinks it can win votes by being a huge collective dick to the people who votes they need. Try treating white men with respect, and dumping the intersectionality bullshit that has been a huge divisive brain fart on the part of the left and created an oppression olypmpics that pits one group and against another, instead of asking where can we find common ground to rise all our boats.

All intersectionality and qoutas has ever done is create racism and mutual antagonism and bitterness. All intersectionism has done is shit on the vision of Dr. Martin Luther King.

I'll give you an example, a group of black students at a Canadian university wanted tuitions cut at there univerity for black and FN students, just those students and wanted more enrollment of black students to be like in the flier (Black Canadians make up 3% of the population and in Canada are actually better educated then the national average).

To achieve that though the University would have to raise tuitions for everybody else, which would pit Asian and White Students against Black and FN students.

Instead what they should have done is make common cause with all students and gone to the Provincial Ontario Government and pushed for lower tuitions, a win for ALL students, they would have had far more allies, who would have spoken with one unified voice, instead of wasting time with in fighting amoung students.

That was the vision of Martin Luther, unity, not an idealogy that turns one race against another.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
11-11-2016, 12:56 PM
Hey come on. Anybody hoping Trump gets assassinated is SICK ! That is way out of bounds and over the top.

I agree hoping for something like that is problematic. However she didn't say that she was hoping for it but was giving a perspective on what could happen and why people may not want something like that to occur.

Omegaphallic
11-11-2016, 12:56 PM
Hey come on. Anybody hoping Trump gets assassinated is SICK ! That is way out of bounds and over the top.

Killing Trump gets you President Pence, a homophobic asshole who will leave you yearning for Trump.

whirlerz
11-11-2016, 01:00 PM
Well, then maybe both of 'em should go. :)
There, I said it.
Actually, comedian Jeff Ross said it first in Comedy Central roast, which's great btw. It's in English, wh/Span. subtitles


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbxpoFhz6sY

Nyla19
11-11-2016, 01:02 PM
^^^^ agreed!

safado
11-11-2016, 01:06 PM
Well, then maybe both of 'em should go. :)
There, I said it.

So you like Paul Ryan aka Eddie Munster?

I think Trump will do a good job as President

whirlerz
11-11-2016, 01:10 PM
Not too fam w/him, but I'll check him out, thanks. :)

safado
11-11-2016, 01:12 PM
Not too fam w/him, but I'll check him out, thanks. :)

Currently speaker of the house, he was Mitt Romney's running mate

We had a rabbit like you
11-11-2016, 01:19 PM
Just a recap, Privilege doesnt mean that every white person is better off than every single black person no matter what ..it simply means that if you had your exact same life only as a black person, you probably wouldn't have gotten the same opportunities that you have, no matter how bad you have it. For the most part. There are road blocks you would have encountered on top of the road blocks u may have already faced. I don't understand the defensiveness. It doesn't mean you're a bad person. And there are many privileges or perks in life everyone is born into w no choice. Like being born in a first world country or not being born crippled. Just realize your luck and acknowledge it and help try and make things more fair is all I think ppl want

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
11-11-2016, 01:37 PM
I think it may be time to lock the thread. Because at this point many of you aren't even listening to why or how people may have certain opinions. But instead are starting to throw around some very hateful propaganda. Observing this is very disturbing.

safado
11-11-2016, 01:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgegevWC90

Here is one of the reasons Trump won

whirlerz
11-11-2016, 01:46 PM
Ok, well I for one, apologize, I was really taking it in a joking manner..
A lot of serious stuff is going down, & everyone processes in a different manner.
Thanks. :)

MissMoore
11-11-2016, 01:53 PM
I think it may be time to lock the thread. Because at this point many of you aren't even listening to why or how people may have certain opinions. But instead are starting to throw around some very hateful propaganda. Observing this is very disturbing.

Agreed. People are twisting others words to fit their own beliefs/narratives to suit them.

I'm excusing myself now from this thread because I don't see this conversation going anywhere positive/informative from here on out.

Thank you to all the Veterans who served. I hope the rest of you have a nice weekend. :)

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
11-11-2016, 01:57 PM
Ok, well I for one, apologize, I was really taking it in a joking manner..
A lot of serious stuff is going down, & everyone processes in a different manner.
Thanks. :)

Its okay and thank you for acknowledging that people do process things differently. But we're getting a lot of reports and at this point I don't think that some of the posters here are interested in getting along. It was a good healthy discussion before, but now Its starting to look a little trollish and an attempt to piss people off. And thats not okay.

baer45
11-11-2016, 02:02 PM
Agreed. People are twisting others words to fit their own beliefs/narratives to suit them.

I'm excusing myself now from this thread because I don't see this conversation going anywhere positive/informative from here on out.

Thank you to all the Veterans who served. I hope the rest of you have a nice weekend. :)

Some people just won't accept different opinions. That's why political discussion is moot point in most of the cases. I tried to discuss the real policies, but the hatre is all racism and other stuff.

baer45
11-11-2016, 02:06 PM
I think it may be time to lock the thread. Because at this point many of you aren't even listening to why or how people may have certain opinions. But instead are starting to throw around some very hateful propaganda. Observing this is very disturbing.


agree, close the thread.

MissJu
11-11-2016, 02:26 PM
idiotism is getting stronger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XJVAMCiUBg

whirlerz
11-11-2016, 02:28 PM
I just wanna say (1 more thing)..
If y'all go & look in LIfe Support, I put a Deal W/Hate in there..
Where I'm coming from, hearing about the harassment, & it's scary & real to me too. Not only the harassment, but the victim was almost arrested for defending herself.