View Full Version : Customer and Dancer Humanity
BobbleHead
01-04-2017, 05:06 PM
I really think the OP assumes that because he is always very patient and 'respectful' and polite with his OTC maneuvering that his behavior is therefor completely acceptable. Because he is 'acting like a gentleman,' but his manners aren't the issue. If I was not into the idea of OTC and had a guy at my club that was waiting and watching and waiting and watching and waiting and watching till he felt like he could 'catch me at the right time'(the OP's words) so he could finally persuade me to go OTC for him...........I would be so creeped and out and would never go near him. But I assume that's because--unlike the women he was targeting--I am not one to get taken advantage of.
Oh please taken advantage of. These are grown women who get offered money for a service and can just say no thank you if it creeps them out or makes them uncomfortable. I have no problem with the rest of what you have been saying but these girls are taken advantage of about as much as any man that walks into a club. This is ADULT work and both sides go into it expecting to be dealing with other adults who can make decisions for themselves.
As to the original question I don't think it makes you a sociopath. The club is pretty much dog eat dog. If you aren't hardened to certain things you will end up being the one "taken advantage of". JMO
rickdugan
01-04-2017, 05:08 PM
I really think the OP assumes that because he is always very patient and 'respectful' and polite with his OTC maneuvering that his behavior is therefor completely acceptable. Because he is 'acting like a gentleman,' but his manners aren't the issue. If I was not into the idea of OTC and had a guy at my club that was waiting and watching and waiting and watching and waiting and watching till he felt like he could 'catch me at the right time'(the OP's words) so he could finally persuade me to go OTC for him...........I would be so creeped and out and would never go near him. But I assume that's because--unlike the women he was targeting--I am not one to get taken advantage of.
OR...
Maybe I just assumed that they were grown adults who could make grown-up decisions. Saying that they were being "taken advantage of" diminishes them and every other woman who ever decides to sell sex to make ends meet. There is a big difference between making it easy to say yes, even including being there at the right time, and trying to control/groom someone. I'm sure that many of them had other options besides going OTC with me - I was just the most convenient option at that moment.
And if that bothers you, then so be it. I was hoping to have this discussion without too much debate over the morality of hustles on either side of the tip rail, be they attempts of guys to get XYZ from girls or strippers attempting to max value from their customers, but I am starting to see that this is going to be impossible.
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 05:11 PM
Oh please taken advantage of. These are grown women who get offered money for a service and can just say no thank you if it creeps them out or makes them uncomfortable.
And to purposely approach women who would normally say no to these offers during times when you know they're desperate and more likely to unwillingly accept still makes someone a creep IMO. It's entrapment. Are the women smart for caving in or for ending up in the situation in the first place? No. Does that make the OP and less of a creep? Not in my book.
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 05:17 PM
Saying that they were being "taken advantage of" diminishes them and every other woman who ever decides to sell sex to make ends meet.
I would completely disagree. The women you are dealing with do not represent the entirety of escorting, and you and your tactics do not represent the entirety of escorting clientele. So not sure how you think I am diminishing the entire escort industry.
rickdugan
01-04-2017, 05:22 PM
And to purposely approach women who would normally say no to these offers during times when you know they're desperate and more likely to unwillingly accept still makes someone a creep IMO. It's entrapment. Are the women smart for caving in or for ending up in the situation in the first place? No. Does that make the OP and less of a creep? Not in my book.
Actually Genoveve, they approach me. Always. I don't chase strippers. I also don't specifically seek out vulnerable ones, as I've told you 3 times now.
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 05:23 PM
And if that bothers you, then so be it. I was hoping to have this discussion without too much debate over the morality of hustles on either side of the tip rail, be they attempts of guys to get XYZ from girls or strippers attempting to max value from their customers, but I am starting to see that this is going to be impossible.
Well you asked if we thought that your long term stripclub attendance could be negatively impacting your humanity, and based off of your quotes:
Now to get some of the obvious out of the way, none of these three do this as a matter of course. Suffice it to say that I'm a long time regular at their clubs and know the landscape about as well as any customer can. The first two did so because I caught them at the right time - they are both mothers and need extra stuff at certain times of year for their kids. The third is in the same boat and was facing a holiday without Xmas presents for her kids. Now maybe pity hustling was part of the angle for at least the third one, but I know for a fact that her need was real enough.
The worst part though is that, in the moment, all I could think about is how all of this crying was dampening my fun buzz. I wasn't angry, but rather just cold. Over the years, I have also found myself getting ever better at assessing and even manipulating OTC targets through quiet kindness, even as that kindness was only surface deep.
I've made no bones about the fact that, if I am enjoying a girl ITC and I sense the opportunity to take it further, I'll make the move. And yes, sometimes I will wait in the weeds until she is comfortable with me and she finds herself needing more than she can make ITC, for whatever reason.
I would say yes.
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 05:24 PM
I also don't specifically seek out vulnerable ones, as I've told you 3 times now.
Then why do your own words contradict that?
rickdugan
01-04-2017, 05:30 PM
I would completely disagree. The women you are dealing with do not represent the entirety of escorting, and you and your tactics do not represent the entirety of escorting clientele. So not sure how you think I am diminishing the entire escort industry.
Oh, but you most certainly are diminishing them. You are taking the view that they are too weak or vulnerable to willingly agree to have sex for money simply because they need the money. You do realize that a high percentage of escorts end up escorting for that same reason, no?
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 05:36 PM
Oh, but you most certainly are diminishing them.
Still completely disagree and obviously I understand that escorts escort for money. Again why you are using my disapproval over your personal OTC tactics and experiences to say that I'm diminishing escorts I have no idea. I think you're just trying to change the subject tbh.
rickdugan
01-04-2017, 05:39 PM
Then why do your own words contradict that?
I think you need to read more carefully. I outlined their particular situations, but I said nothing about seeking them out or chasing them down. Each one sought me out, not the other way around. As I said above, I don't chase strippers, ever.
And now this thread has really gone off the cliff.
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 05:43 PM
Well I will leave your thread alone since I really have no idea what you were hoping to hear and you obviously don't like what I have to say, plus I'm getting a little bored with repeatedly calling you a manipulative weirdo.
rickdugan
01-04-2017, 05:47 PM
Again why you are using my disapproval over your personal OTC tactics and experiences to say that I'm diminishing escorts I have no idea.
Because they are two sides of the same coin. You cannot claim that I am "entrapping" or "grooming" them without also taking the position that they were too vulnerable to make an adult decision when they said yes, which of course is absurd.
Well I will leave your thread alone since I really have no idea what you were hoping to hear and you obviously don't like what I have to say, plus I'm getting a little bored with repeatedly calling you a manipulative weirdo.
At least "manipulative weirdo" sounds like a step up from "creep", whether you intended it or not. ;)
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 05:57 PM
Because they are two sides of the same coin. You cannot claim that I am "entrapping" or "grooming" them without also taking the position that they were too vulnerable to make an adult decision when they said yes, which of course is absurd.
I never said the girls have no responsibility for making choices that weren't wise for them. But their responsibility doesn't negate your part in it what I consider to be your creepiness.
At least "manipulative weirdo" sounds like a step up from "creep", whether you intended it or not. ;)
Tbh I wrote 'creep' then edited it to 'manipulative weirdo' for the sake of not being redundant. I went back to re-edit 'manipulative weirdo' to something softer but couldn't really think of anything.
DeathAndTaxes
01-04-2017, 07:14 PM
The easiest way to make sure it is not grooming (accidental grooming is possible) is talk to her the next time she approaches you and ask point blank if she is OK with your arrangement. If there is any EMOTIONAL hesitation then just end it right there.
They may be adults, but adults are not robots either, they sometimes say yes even if they are suffering with the decision inside.
whirlerz
01-04-2017, 07:17 PM
OK. For me (& I went back & reread the OP) there's some ' missing puzzle pieces' of which the 1st incident you don't want to elaborate on..
& in regards to the second incident, you said "she didn't want me or anyone else think she does this type of thing regularly"?
I subbed a couple words but that's the gist of it, did she tell you that or you assumed it?
Just a bit confused
Idk, in all sceneries we can get more than we bargained for?
tookewl
01-04-2017, 07:34 PM
I caught them at the right time... but I know for a fact that her need was real enough.... even manipulating OTC targets through quiet kindness, even as that kindness was only surface deep.
Sounds predatory. You mention being adults and while legally they may be, from your description it doesn't sound like mentally/emotionally the ones you deal with are.
At the end of the day these are transitory commercial relationships involving mutual benefit
IN theory yes, in practice not always. IME being an adult, or at least a compassionate one, is taking responsibility not just for your well-being but for those you interact with. There's a difference between agreeing to an act and being comfortable with the act, either during or after it. Now it's your prerogative to think otherwise. And more power to you if you feel like it aligns with your tenets. I don't.
Anyways good luck and just my 0.02
rickdugan
01-04-2017, 08:29 PM
OK. For me (& I went back & reread the OP) there's some ' missing puzzle pieces' of which the 1st incident you don't want to elaborate on..
& in regards to the second incident, you said "she didn't want me or anyone else think she does this type of thing regularly"?
I subbed a couple words but that's the gist of it, did she tell you that or you assumed it?
Just a bit confused
Idk, in all sceneries we can get more than we bargained for?
Ok, I will elaborate a little in the interest of fairness...
With girl #1, she was someone who I took OTC a few times some months back. She eventually left the club for a few months, but I had stopped seeing her OTC even before she left. Without getting too graphic, things were just not clicking with us OTC and I was paying her a decent amount of money for fairly lousy experiences. It is too bad because she is a beautiful girl, but it is what it is. However, she recently returned to the club and, for some reason, got it in her head that she just had to talk me out. She was drunk, which I'm sure was part of it. She spent an hour making a low-key scene at the bar, despite me repeatedly making it crystal clear that it was not going to happen. Finally, the bartender got fed up and went to talk to the manager, who came over and escorted her back to the dressing room. 15 minutes later she was on her way out the door.
With respect to girl #2, she actually told me that. I don't know why it came up when it did, after I had already taken her OTC 3 times prior, but it did.
Hope that helps provide a little clarity.
BobbleHead
01-04-2017, 09:13 PM
And to purposely approach women who would normally say no to these offers during times when you know they're desperate and more likely to unwillingly accept still makes someone a creep IMO. It's entrapment. Are the women smart for caving in or for ending up in the situation in the first place? No. Does that make the OP and less of a creep? Not in my book.
And if he instead said "hey you need money, let's rob a bank" and they took him up on it, which they normally wouldn't, does it make them any less culpable? No, they made the choice knowing full well that they may not be comfortable with the outcome.
miss.a.p1600
01-04-2017, 09:43 PM
^^^google Stockholm syndrome because yes people can make choice they wouldn't normally make, like robbing a bank, for a number of reasons
these women made "choices" under duress (stressed about needing money for bills and for gifts for their kids).
When you make a choices to get your basic needs met it's not the same as making a well thought out clear headed choice.
Robbing a bank for the hell of it vs Robbing a bank to help pay for an expensive medicine your kid needs - the choice is the same but the reason behind it is different
Many women will do shit they deep down don't want to do to provide for their kids/family. Then realize during or after the fact they are in over their head.
Choice is not that clear cut. Many factors go into decision making.
Plus 3 women in a row ?!? and the common denominator is one man aka rick dugans
Not every woman in the club is a stone cold hardened seasoned & experienced. Some have these things call emotions. Some of the males in the thread must not have ever had a rough day at work that affected them emotionally?!?
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 10:13 PM
And if he instead said "hey you need money, let's rob a bank" and they took him up on it, which they normally wouldn't, does it make them any less culpable? No, they made the choice knowing full well that they may not be comfortable with the outcome.
Well to that I would again say:
I never said the girls have no responsibility for making choices that weren't wise for them. But their responsibility doesn't negate your part in it what I consider to be your creepiness.
Wouldn't make the OP any less of a bank robber.
BobbleHead
01-04-2017, 10:16 PM
^^^google Stockholm syndrome because yes people can make choice they wouldn't normally make, like robbing a bank, for a number of reasons
these women made "choices" under duress (stressed about needing money for bills and for gifts for their kids).
When you make a choices to get your basic needs met it's not the same as making a well thought out clear headed choice.
Robbing a bank for the hell of it vs Robbing a bank to help pay for an expensive medicine your kid needs - the choice is the same but the reason behind it is different
Many women will do shit they deep down don't want to do to provide for their kids/family. Then realize during or after the fact they are in over their head.
Choice is not that clear cut. Many factors go into decision making.
Plus 3 women in a row ?!? and the common denominator is one man aka rick dugans
Not every woman in the club is a stone cold hardened seasoned & experienced. Some have these things call emotions. Some of the males in the thread must not have ever had a rough day at work that affected them emotionally?!?
Ridiculous. Comparing wanting Christmas presents to needing medicine and otc to Stockholm Syndrome.
Anyway the only wording I took issue with in this thread was that these girls are being taken advantage of. They are (non captive) adults with a choice. If anything the OP is taking advantage of timing but he's no more taking advantage of the girls than a dancer is taking advantage of a customer who is horny by draining his wallet.
BobbleHead
01-04-2017, 10:18 PM
Well to that I would again say:
Wouldn't make the OP any less of a bank robber.
But you did indirectly say he was taking advantage of them.
And yes he would be a bank robber. I don't think the OP has ever argued that he isn't a "bank robber" but is he a creepy "bank robber"? lol
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 10:32 PM
But you did indirectly say he was taking advantage of them.
I think I was pretty direct about it.
And yes he would be a bank robber. I don't think the OP has ever argued that he isn't a "bank robber" but is he a creepy "bank robber"? lol
I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of my back-and-forth with the OP involves me saying he is a creepy manipulator and him arguing that he's not. Someone get this guy the Cliff Notes.
miss.a.p1600
01-04-2017, 10:35 PM
I was comparing Stockholm syndrome to the bank robbing situation you suggested. And describing how choice and free will is not that cut and dry.
Of course medicine is necessary but gifts are not however women will do whatever it takes to provide for their kids - even if it's something they deep down they aren't interested in/don't want to do. When it comes to making your kids happy you'll do just about anything.
Me personally I've made shitty choices when I was feeling stressed and vulnerable. And I had one day out of 3 years where I lost my shit and cried at the club.
But What's ridiculous is you failed to read his first post on page one.
He clearly outlined how he knew which ones to target, knew they NEEDED the money, 3 girls cried as a result of interacting with him, AND he felt not one bit of guilt or compassion as long as his needs were met. I'm not trying to label anyone I don't know well but This behavior described is trenching into sociopathy/narcissism waters.
BobbleHead
01-04-2017, 11:07 PM
I think I was pretty direct about it.
I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of my back-and-forth with the OP involves me saying he is a creepy manipulator and him arguing that he's not. Someone get this guy the Cliff Notes.
Don't need Cliff Notes. Like I said the only issue I've had with anything you've said was about these girls being taken advantage of and that's the only thing I've really addressed.
Genoveve
01-04-2017, 11:09 PM
^^Okay and I have addressed numerous times why I think the OP is a predator. If you want me to argue why I think that is you can just reread all of my posts because that's literally all I've been talking about.
BobbleHead
01-04-2017, 11:24 PM
^^Okay and I have addressed numerous times why I think the OP is a predator. If you want me to argue why I think that is you can just reread all of my posts because that's literally all I've been talking about.
I'm not debating any of that with you. The op even described the club as "predatory" so I'm not even sure he would argue it. I took issue with one comment you made only and commented on that. I think the thread went even further off track now due to that so my apologies to the op and the rest involved.
whirlerz
01-04-2017, 11:29 PM
Well..
I know it was written about getting an escort & that's not wanted for w/ev reason..seems like the best way to go instead of cutting corners & dealing w/emotions
miss.a.p1600
01-04-2017, 11:38 PM
I doubt it because escorts can blacklist dudes that act negatively in any way, otc girls cannot. OTC women rely on the mans behavior in the club which is not always an accurate indication of how he'll behave during the transaction or after.
That's why they pull strippers otc cause they know they can get away with more at the same time pay less than the going escort rate while dodging screening, background checking, and being held accountable for past unsavory behavior.
He already said in his past posts he don't like screening.
rickdugan
01-05-2017, 05:35 AM
I doubt it because escorts can blacklist dudes that act negatively in any way, otc girls cannot. OTC women rely on the mans behavior in the club which is not always an accurate indication of how he'll behave during the transaction or after.
That's why they pull strippers otc cause they know they can get away with more at the same time pay less than the going escort rate while dodging screening, background checking, and being held accountable for past unsavory behavior.
He already said in his past posts he don't like screening.
Honestly Miss, it sounds like you are sharing theories rather than speaking from any real experience in these sorts of things. The reality is that plenty of escorts don't require screening either. If I was ever going to engage in "unsavory behavior" (which of course I wouldn't) it would be far easier with some random BP girl than it would be with a girl that knows a fair amount about me through our interactions ITC and who I will likely see again soon.
Also, in most markets guys generally pay more, not less, to take a stripper out than they would for a blow and go with an escort. There are a lot of reasons for this, some of which I won't get into here, but it makes sense if you think about it. That premium pays for things like perceptions of quality and exclusivity, among other things. There are some guys that do OTC with favorites who would never dream of dialing up anonymous escorts.
whirlerz
01-05-2017, 09:36 AM
Well..
I know it was written about getting an escort & that's not wanted for w/ev reason..seems like the best way to go instead of cutting corners & dealing w/emotions
Quoting myself here^..how do you know, Rick, that they're not going to flip their shit on you? I know, you're going to say, "I know them from the club, been out multiple times, etc"..but it can & does happen, despite these things Maybe this's a warning sign for you? (Italicized & underlined quotes added after original post.
Just sayin' RD.
Kitcatt
01-05-2017, 12:14 PM
Okay, just out of curiosity, what was the original question you were asking Rick? I get that you're offended that people keep calling you a grooming creepy weirdo, but wasn't the original question if the club has made you cold? Is some of the posting maybe letting you know that, yeah, maybe? I remember your posts from a while back about your situation and why you choose to go to clubs, but I have to wonder, aren't you afraid that all of this, um, coldness, might have blowback in your personal life? That's also the danger of not choosing to be with a professional escort. You could find yourself in a situation where someone gets offended and decides they need to do some payback for real or imagined slights.
If nothing else I'd warn you to be cautious.
BobbleHead
01-05-2017, 12:55 PM
Okay, just out of curiosity, what was the original question you were asking Rick? I get that you're offended that people keep calling you a grooming creepy weirdo, but wasn't the original question if the club has made you cold? Is some of the posting maybe letting you know that, yeah, maybe? I remember your posts from a while back about your situation and why you choose to go to clubs, but I have to wonder, aren't you afraid that all of this, um, coldness, might have blowback in your personal life? That's also the danger of not choosing to be with a professional escort. You could find yourself in a situation where someone gets offended and decides they need to do some payback for real or imagined slights.
If nothing else I'd warn you to be cautious.
Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't it be much easier for a "professional escort" to cause blowback into his personal life? If an escort screens that means she gets his real name, phone number, possibly address, work information, etc. An otc dancer gets whatever name he gives her and a hotel room. I don't see how the former can't cause more damage if that was what she wanted to do. I do understand that an escort is less likely to be upset and less likely to ruin her own reputation by doing this but let's be real, a lot of escorts aren't really "professional". I've never called up one myself but giving that much information about myself seems far more likely to cause problems than a one off meeting in a hotel room with a girl from a club.
whirlerz
01-05-2017, 12:57 PM
Believe it or not, I actually knew of a club that hired a female undercover as a dancer, to help out in a sting.
Something to think about too.
arielbriel
01-05-2017, 01:08 PM
The way I see it is you waited until the girl was vulnerable enough to say yes to things she is uncomfortable with out of necessity (the holidays) so yes, you should feel bad, that is a normal emotion -> shame is a human reaction to doing something wrong. I would apologize to the girls next time you see them. "Hey I'm sorry if I made you do something you would not normally do" would suffice. They will then delve into details such as "it's ok" or "actually I was just having a rough week and I just happened to break down in front of you".
minnow
01-05-2017, 01:12 PM
Jumping in very late here..........................
They say that things seem to run in threes, be it car troubles (which I had), or in your case dancers crying on you. Fwiw, I don't think you're sociopathic. I do think that you got a wakeup call that you need to step back and reflect upon the effect that your words/actions have on other people. (Which you appear to be doing just that.)
Somewhere among the white noise on SW and Tuscl, I seem to recall you acknowledging that you have a cold, sharp Northeastern way of talking. You've also made dancers cry in past occasions ( i.e., the EE dancer that cried after you told her that you couldn't understand what she'd been saying all the time). I don't mean to suggest that you're a real hard ass, or that you should soften your stance. You are what you are, and aforementioned hard sharp edge has gotten you some mileage in life.
I know dancers aren't supposed to get emotional about customers, yet some still do, especially with a regular like yourself. In all 3 cases, you know their marital/child support status. To get that knowledge required that you gain some degree of trust from the dancers. Hence a higher (if slight) level of "emotional connection" that vast majority of infrequent customers wouldn't normally get. In over 90% of dancers I've interacted with, I couldn't tell you their marital status, how many kids(if any) they have, what their other gig is, etc. An economic pinch coupled with losing a well paying customer may be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Without getting too analytical, maybe prior to engaging in future OTC give some degree of consideration on the effect activities have on others. I know that you can't always predict how people can react in adverse situations. For dancers who can entertain you well, but are initially gun shy about OTC, throttling back a little just might be in order.
Vyanka
01-05-2017, 01:23 PM
Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't it be much easier for a "professional escort" to cause blowback into his personal life? If an escort screens that means she gets his real name, phone number, possibly address, work information, etc. An otc dancer gets whatever name he gives her and a hotel room. I don't see how the former can't cause more damage if that was what she wanted to do. I do understand that an escort is less likely to be upset and less likely to ruin her own reputation by doing this but let's be real, a lot of escorts aren't really "professional". I've never called up one myself but giving that much information about myself seems far more likely to cause problems than a one off meeting in a hotel room with a girl from a club.
Escorts also run a risk of getting locked up. I assume their risk is higher than the clientele. No? So if you're the bread, what's there to damage on your end?
BobbleHead
01-05-2017, 04:01 PM
Escorts also run a risk of getting locked up. I assume their risk is higher than the clientele. No? So if you're the bread, what's there to damage on your end?
I'm not sure what you mean but as the client I would think having your wife or job find out and that part of your life ruined could be worse than a prostitution charge. Honestly I don't know too much about the escorting world but I'd be very hesitant to be screened in the way I see escorts on this board talk about.
Genoveve
01-05-2017, 04:23 PM
Honestly I don't know too much about the escorting world
Then perhaps you shouldn't be making sweeping derogatory generalizations like this:
but let's be real, a lot of escorts aren't really "professional"
...
Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't it be much easier for a "professional escort" to cause blowback into his personal life? If an escort screens that means she gets his real name, phone number, possibly address, work information, etc.
If an escort started fucking with a client via his personal info, 1. I'm sure the client could get her in legal trouble for harassment and 2. I'm sure the client would have the ultimate dirt on her which is that she is engaging in illegal activity(escorting). Obviously the dude would be too, but he could get her into trouble anonymously. I don't think any actual professional escort would be behaving so unwisely, and professionals are who was being suggested for the OP.
whirlerz
01-05-2017, 04:52 PM
They say that things seem to run in threes, be it car troubles (which I had), or in your case dancers crying on you. I do think that you got a wakeup call that you need to step back and reflect upon the effect that your words/actions have on other people. (Which you appear to be doing just that You've also made dancers cry in past occasions ( i.e., the EE dancer that cried after you told her that you couldn't understand what she'd been saying all the time). e.
Without getting too analytical, maybe prior to engaging in future OTC give some degree of consideration on the effect activities have on others. I know that you can't always predict how people can react in adverse situations. For dancers who can entertain you well, but are initially gun shy about OTC, throttling back a little just might be in order.
Yes^.
I believe he's sought & been given this advice before..& before this thread.
Of course the drives are strong, self preservation usually comes first, or should?
I remember on thread where he waited on an otc dancer that took several long (very long) bathroom breaks (drugs)
He was admonished then as now.
I think he'll maybe back off for awhile, then keep going.
Hopefully not tho.
Anyway good luck.
BobbleHead
01-05-2017, 05:14 PM
Then perhaps you shouldn't be making sweeping derogatory generalizations like this:
...
If an escort started fucking with a client via his personal info, 1. I'm sure the client could get her in legal trouble for harassment and 2. I'm sure the client would have the ultimate dirt on her which is that she is engaging in illegal activity(escorting). Obviously the dude would be too, but he could get her into trouble anonymously. I don't think any actual professional escort would be behaving so unwisely, and professionals are who was being suggested for the OP.
That wasn't meant as derogatory. Are you saying there aren't a lot of unprofessiaonal girls escorting?
What I meant by my comment was that I wouldn't consider anyone who can throw an ad up on craigslist or backpage to be given a title of "professional escort". That doesn't mean that the majority aren't just that I wouldn't assume it and I sure wouldn't bet my family and career on it by providing my personal details to her.
I don't mean to downplay a prostitution charge but I do believe a client has more to lose.
Also, yes you did say a professional escort. I guess in my admittedly limited knowledge I just wouldn't know how to tell you are dealing with one before getting in too deep.
On a one to one note I do apologize to you if our interaction here got a little too heated (not that you can't or didn't handle it) :)
Genoveve
01-05-2017, 05:34 PM
On a one to one note I do apologize to you if our interaction here got a little too heated (not that you can't or didn't handle it) :)
S'okay, I'm a Capricorn from New Jersey so I know I don't usually come off like peaches and cream myself. :biggrin:
Nyla19
01-05-2017, 05:47 PM
Well, you can definitely handle yourself well, Genoveve!:)
Vyanka
01-05-2017, 05:50 PM
Then perhaps you shouldn't be making sweeping derogatory generalizations like this:
...
If an escort started fucking with a client via his personal info, 1. I'm sure the client could get her in legal trouble for harassment and 2. I'm sure the client would have the ultimate dirt on her which is that she is engaging in illegal activity(escorting). Obviously the dude would be too, but he could get her into trouble anonymously. I don't think any actual professional escort would be behaving so unwisely, and professionals are who was being suggested for the OP.
:yes:
I would also think if someone is out to "ruin" someone's life, it would most likely be the emotional/stressed otc stripper than an escort. It wouldn't make sense if an escort did that.
Genoveve
01-05-2017, 06:49 PM
^^^Exactly, for a professional escort it would not make much sense business-wise. Major beef with a customer could end up being complete financial suicide.
miss.a.p1600
01-05-2017, 07:34 PM
so yes, you should feel bad, that is a normal emotion -> shame is a human reaction to doing something wrong.
Disclaimer this is not a label of anyone here as I'm not a psychiatrist however Narcissists/sociopaths/psychopaths do not feel emotions like shame, guilt, empathy, or even real love. They can mimic how they see others express it but they don't feel it.
gameover
01-05-2017, 07:36 PM
It seems like some of the pink responses here are a bit hypocritical. We are talking about the club environment. Dancers are constantly pressuring customers for VIP's, buy drinks, etc. I don't see why asking a non-OTC dancer for OTC is such an issue for you all. It's not hurting your money in the club, and everyone involved is a consenting adult.
After I get to know a dancer that I like in the club. I will offer OTC to them, and I usually only offer it to those that aren't currently doing OTC. If they don't want it, they can just say no, and I won't bother them further unless they raise the subject later. I do tell them what I'll pay for the OTC, and often, that is an attractive offer to the dancer, and she will accept.
I prefer dancers to escorts. Escorts are always an unknown quantity, often with fake pictures, and probably seeing a large number of clients. With OTC, I know what the dancer really looks like. I know if I have chemistry, and I can get a feel for her character and personality. The ITC time I spend with them is like an extended interview process. As a result, I've always felt my money spent on OTC has always been well worth it.
Frankly, after you've been going to the club for a few years, the thrill of VIP is gone. If it weren't for finding dancers for OTC, I probably wouldn't even bother going to the club anymore. OTC , I think, provides a little thrill of the chase. Let's face it. Strip clubs have always played on that "ooh, maybe I can get that pretty girl to dance in VIP fantasy". But after you've realized that dancers are begging for you to spend money in VIP for a pretty tame experience, you look for a bigger thrill. I'm just scratching the same itch that brought me into a strip club in the first place. :)
When I was younger, strip clubs were packed on weekends, because they were dangerous, exciting, etc. Because, sex was not so easy to get as today. In strips clubs in most cities today, clubs are half empty on weekends. Just like no one goes to burlesque shows today because they are so tame, I think fewer people are going to strip clubs today, because they seem tame to modern audiences used to easy sex on tinder, etc.
miss.a.p1600
01-05-2017, 07:38 PM
Do they cry after your transactions with you though?
Genoveve
01-05-2017, 07:39 PM
^^^ETA exactly.
I don't see why asking a non-OTC dancer for OTC is such an issue for you all.
That's not really an issue to me. But that's also not what we were all talking about.
gameover
01-05-2017, 07:42 PM
No, but they do get upset when you move on to a new dancer.