View Full Version : Camming and feminism
StellaPurr
01-28-2017, 07:07 AM
Well your viewpoints are misogynistic as hell. If it walks like a duck..
Daisies
01-28-2017, 07:10 AM
Even if we did have all the equal rights and opportunities and everything was perfect this way of reasoning (where you consider feminism unnecessary because of what's already accomplished) is false and dangerous.
Just because you have certain rights does not mean people won't take them away the moment you stop fighting for them. Look at abortion rights in Poland for example, or look at some of the middle eastern countries like Afghanistan where less than a lifetime ago they were free to dress however they wanted yet here they are today struggling for rights that pretty recently used to be a natural part of everyday life.
If you can sit comfortably on your ass and say that you have rights and that now you don't have to be a part of the movement that made sure you got them then prepare to lose those rights. Because the reason you can sit on your ass is likely the fact that there are other people out there doing the actual work and constantly fighting for those rights in different ways. We live in a traditionally racist and sexist society and in that type of society women and poc will always, until all sexism and racism is completely gone which probably won't happen in the nearest future, have to actively fight for their rights or they will be taken away one way or another.
You only need one quick look at the history of the world to realize that rights come and go, are fought for and then lost, and the moment you think you acquire rights and then automatically get to keep them is the moment you fool yourself big time.
You seem to have bought into a lot of anti-feminist propaganda, good luck with getting rid of all that and acquiring actual knowledge, but no matter how hard you try to ignore the reality of today you can't deny what history tells you about the nature of those rights you seem to take for granted.
I sit comfortably? I work my ass off everyday in one of the poorest countries in Europe. The minimum wage here is 500euros, when the minimum money they ask for you to rent an apartment with the minimum of conditions is at least 600 euros. I sit comfortably because I worked for it and didn't waste my time complaining about how such a poor victim I am to society.
Hating men won't end sexism against women. Like I said a million times but people decide to ignore, I'm not against real feminism, I'm against third wave feminism.
You gave an example of Afghanistan, do you know why women are oppressed there? Because the legal system of Afghanistan consists of Islamic, statutory and customary rules. There are a LOT of passages in the quran that show the oppression of women. You can't really compare the US to Afghanistan.
You are right about the fact that racism and sexism won't be completely gone, because you can't really police people's minds, even if you fight against them or not.
That are no laws in the US that support the discrimination of women or POC, there are individuals who go against those laws, and most of them, if proven, end up in jail.
Daisies
01-28-2017, 07:11 AM
Well your viewpoints are misogynistic as hell. If it walks like a duck..
You hate women who oppose your views. Sorry if my views of fighting for rights aren't holding a male tears mug and complain about men spreading their legs on the bus.
sexysusie
01-28-2017, 07:13 AM
Hating men won't end sexism against women. Like I said a million times but people decide to ignore, I'm not against real feminism, I'm against third wave feminism.
Did you read any of what people have written above in response to your comments about this?
Daisies
01-28-2017, 07:14 AM
Please don't quote a paper that is entirely right wing racist rhetoric. The daily mail is renowned here for its direct manipulation of public perception towards the most vulnerable.
It's not only on that paper, it's also on other ones.
Daisies
01-28-2017, 07:15 AM
Did you read any of what people have written above in response to your comments about this?
Yes I did, I do read things before commenting on them. All I got from this conversation is how I should be a feminist and if I'm not I'm a misogynist.
I also refuted a lot of points and didn't get any reply about it.
sexysusie
01-28-2017, 07:27 AM
It's not only on that paper, it's also on other ones.
But the fact that you used it to support your theory brings into question your entire line of reasoning. If you are getting your information from sources like that, it's unlikely that you also consult credible and verified sources such as journals, studies, and books by experts in the field.
No one is telling you to be a feminist. What has happened is that your anti feminist stance has been questioned as it rests on shaky ground.
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-28-2017, 07:30 AM
What happened to this this thread?
Daisies
01-28-2017, 07:34 AM
But the fact that you used it to support your theory brings into question your entire line of reasoning. If you are getting your information from sources like that, it's unlikely that you also consult credible and verified sources such as journals, studies, and books by experts in the field.
No one is telling you to be a feminist. What has happened is that your anti feminist stance has been questioned as it rests on shaky ground.
You're from the UK you know what papers are right wing or not there, I don't have to know that. Statistics aren't right wing tho. The case I showed, isn't right wing, it actually happened.
Anti third wave feminism. I repeat for the 38295249574 time, I'm okay with feminism at it's core, I even mentioned a feminist that I respect.
sexysusie
01-28-2017, 07:35 AM
What happened to this this thread?
I think this is why we don't talk about politics on social media or in our cam rooms generally lol! I'm sorry if I side tracked the original question by addressing something else I saw posted. I answered the OP anyway so I am done here x
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-28-2017, 07:41 AM
Nope this is as eloquent as it gets. Well said Susie. I'm not sure why there's an argument in a thread created for cammers who are feminist?
I get what you're saying about 3rd wave feminism, but a lot of what you're assuming about that has been shaped by rhetoric specifically designed to paint feminism in a bad light. How many feminists have you actually met? Try to see it in the same light as when a story ends up in the paper- usually it's someone at the extreme end of the scale, or it wouldn't be news right? The stories you've heard about extreme feminists are spin. They're hand picked and singled out to paint ALL feminism in a bad light. There are vested interests here and those are what you have to look at, as well as context. I'm not trying to argue with you about the credibility of feminism, I'm trying to point out that you're making sweeping judgements about something you don't know enough about.
Regarding race, I brought that up because blm came about because black people are STILL fighting injustice. There are many who deny that, and those are people who are not affected by it. They don't experience it themselves so they don't see how it could be an issue to others. This is the same situation we have today with feminism (women are not being shot in the streets but they are being disproportionately killed, maligned, and discriminated against throughout the world). Some western women of a younger generation mainly, haven't experienced what they understand as discrimination, and so they don't recognise it happening around them. I get that, we are all capable of overlooking things because we simply don't see their importance. What needs to happen though is dialogue. You and I don't need to agree, I can't tell you you're wrong for disagreeing with feminism, but I can point out why you need to take a closer look into it before making that judgement, and accept that you need to listen to the voices of those who DO see it. Not necessary agree, just listen, and respect that there is a movement for a reason, even if you don't understand those reasons personally. There is a quote that goes "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere", and that is why I brought the race issue up, because all injustice is related.
I am sure someone more eloquent will come along and explain this better, or perhaps the mods may even remove these posts because they stray a bit from the original point if the thread. I didn't want to pass by without addressing thus though as I felt it was needed.
Daisies
01-28-2017, 07:49 AM
Because the first question the OP gives is "how many of you are feminists?" and I said I'm not and why, and apparently it was a problem from some people who decided to dismiss everything I said and turned to personal insults.
StellaPurr
01-28-2017, 07:58 AM
When I originally posted this thread a lil voice in my head worried it would devolve into an argument but I ignored it and posted anyways being hopeful it wouldn't devolve into an argument but here we are.
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-28-2017, 07:59 AM
I'm not gonna go back and clean this up. I'm not really seeing any personal attacks just polite bickering. But if you're having an issue with the central core of the discussion its okay to move along.
AnotherLily
01-28-2017, 08:00 AM
I'm gonna assume women march last week was just a meme too then. It was just a prank apparently, by thousands of people dressed as vaginas and saying how they hate white men.
As someone who was at one of the marches that took place I saw various signs like " Water is life" ( Being held by Native Americans) " Love thy Muslim neighbor" " Trans lives matter" " I'm a registered Republican and I'm with her" ( with several arrows around it being held my a white male)
I also saw signs being held by what I want to assume of people of Mexican decent saying " We're not rapists"
I saw signs in Spanish, Korean, Arabic with topics ranging from pro choice , environmental issues, wanting to see the sitting president's tax returns and a plethora more.
Not a single sign I saw was about hating white males.
One of my favorites though was:
47256
but hey I guess my logical fallacy is anecdotal
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-28-2017, 08:02 AM
When I originally posted this thread a lil voice in my head worried it would devolve into an argument but I ignored it and posted anyways being hopeful it wouldn't devolve into an argument but here we are.
I'm a little shocked by the turn of events? But that's okay because we're gonna try to shift this into a positive direction.
Daisies
01-28-2017, 08:03 AM
I'm not gonna go back and clean this up. I'm not really seeing any personal attacks just polite bickering. But if you're having an issue with the central core of the discussion its okay to move along.
Saying someone isn't "good enough" or calling someone a "misogynist" because they don't agree with them are personal attacks and isn't polite, specially when they weren't insulted in the first place.
PixiieGirl
01-28-2017, 08:04 AM
As someone who was at one of the marches that took place I saw various signs like " Water is life" ( Being held by Native Americans) " Love thy Muslim neighbor" " Trans lives matter" " I'm a registered Republican and I'm with her" ( with several arrows around it being held my a white male)
I also saw signs being held by what I want to assume of people of Mexican decent saying " We're not rapists"
I saw signs in Spanish, Korean, Arabic with topics ranging from pro choice , environmental issues, wanting to see the sitting president's tax returns and a plethora more.
Not a single sign I saw was about hating white males.
One of my favorites though was:
47256
but hey I guess my logical fallacy is anecdotal
that sign is incredible
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-28-2017, 08:08 AM
Saying someone isn't "good enough" or calling someone a "misogynist" because they don't agree with them are personal attacks and isn't polite, specially when they weren't insulted in the first place.
And you referred to members of this thread as members of a cult. I was trying to be kind by not pointing fingers. You willingly entetered this discussion with people from opposing viewpoints. And for the most part they were polite. I think this is a matter of perspective.
StellaPurr
01-28-2017, 08:09 AM
Daisies if you don't need feminism that's fine and you're entitled to your opinion but many of us need it and will keep fighting the patriarchy :)
Daisies
01-28-2017, 08:11 AM
And you referred to members of this thread as members of a cult. I was trying to be kind by not pointing fingers. You willingly entetered this discussion with people from opposing viewpoints. And for the most part they were polite. I think this is a matter of perspective.
I mentioned a cult after being insulted for not agreeing with them.
Daisies
01-28-2017, 08:13 AM
Daisies if you don't need feminism that's fine and you're entitled to your opinion but many of us need it and will keep fighting the patriarchy :)
There is no patriarchy but good luck with that. While you're at it also fight against real oppression of women in the middle east.
Marina Starr
01-28-2017, 08:14 AM
Current mood:
http://i63.tinypic.com/21esq4j.gif
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-28-2017, 08:16 AM
I mentioned a cult after being insulted for not agreeing with them.
Its still not the kindest response. So if you have issue with something someone has said to you then report it and the mods will take a look. But if you respond with labels and name calling I cant really justify the response and agree that you are being picked on and insulted. And people have responded to the points that they you made. Lots of intelligence brewing here in this thread. I don't think anyone missed anything?
StellaPurr
01-28-2017, 08:18 AM
Marina u always have the right gif
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-28-2017, 08:21 AM
We're back on track, right? Third post Ive made about this. There is no need to continue to disprove a persons beliefs. Its getting beyond rude.
StellaPurr
01-28-2017, 08:22 AM
There is no patriarchy but good luck with that. While you're at it also fight against real oppression of women in the middle east.
Oh my Lord. There you go again, stating yr opinion as fact. I'm so tired of arguing with you when you're so set in your ways so why can't we just agree to disagree
StellaPurr
01-28-2017, 08:31 AM
We're back on track, right? Third post Ive made about this. There is no need to continue to disprove a persons beliefs. Its getting beyond rude.
Ah sorry I was writing and didn't see you post that don't worry I'm done arguing
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-28-2017, 08:36 AM
Its been a very strange week. Maybe even the entire month of January? And not just here on SW but everyone is so on edge and wanting to rage about something.
StellaPurr
01-28-2017, 08:48 AM
January is always a toughie I find.
EdithOutlier
01-28-2017, 09:15 AM
I think you're right, everyone is feeling stressed and uncertain. January seems to be the traditional time for money worries, there's political unrest, everyone's pushing their opinions on lots of topics and getting into arguments easily on social media.
I know I've had to take a deep breath and check my rage levels a few times this week rather than just responding straight away. I need to look after my emotional health and ask myself if the outcome would be worth the stress every time I want to snap about something.
Its been a very strange week. Maybe even the entire month of January? And not just here on SW but everyone is so on edge and wanting to rage about something.
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-31-2017, 01:23 PM
I just had to clean up some post here because I want the discussion to try to stay on topic and please please please, I beg you to not go back and respond to some of the more antagonistic post that are still up. I simply dont have the time to babysit a thread because one person disagrees with the topic nor should I have to close it. There are so many other discussions that people can participate in if this one is not to your liking.
seashell
01-31-2017, 01:54 PM
I am a feminist, but I'm also very sensitive to conflict, so it's not something I argue with people about. If someone says something ignorant or against women, I'll politely correct them, but I don't wage war against people. I'm just not that person.
In my opinion, being loud and aggressive usually alienates other people. It's peaceful discussions and living by example that makes a difference. The recent women's march was peaceful, and we certainly made our voices heard. Not that we should always be quiet... there's a time to be loud and make your opinions known... but it helps to choose your battles wisely.
KLttyKat
02-04-2017, 02:05 AM
Ok... just reading on this thread... SOME good points ;)
I will say I am a DIE HARD FEMINIST. Nina Hartley is. She is also an RN (don't think her license is still active though)--and she is a well known porn star.
I am currently writing an essay/scholarly type article on this. I am also ***SUPPOSED*** to be interviewed for a pod cast in a month or so about Feminism (and Atheism, LOL). I hope to have my article published on my website (which I am still working on as well).
A little hx: I am an odd duck with a varied background
1. Preacher's Daughter (Pentecostal Preacher--Mom)
2. Joined the Army
3. Earned Bachelors, Masters and a PhD in Theology and Ethics (focusing on Politics)
4. 2nd Masters to be a Therapist
5. Ran the Administration for a Medical Intensive Care Unit & a Therapist
6. Sexually Assualted while a patient at my own hospital by a doctor--Retailated--Suing actively--terminated
7. Almost died a few times
8. Found Camming at age of 38 and ROCKED IT :p
Anyway.... I am interested in the feminism aspect to camming. the savvy business women aspect
SOme great posts in here.
miss.a.p1600
02-04-2017, 08:12 PM
How many of you ladies are feminists? And if you are, do you openly talk/post stuff related to yr feminist values on cam/on Twitter ect?
I find when someone in my room is being sexist I can't help but call them out on their bullshit. And I would do the same thing if I had a social media profile for camming.
But I wonder if it's something I should keep more quiet about. I feel like being a sex worker is pretty stigmatized with mainstream society and being an outspoken feminist on top of that will just put a huge target on my head for trolls/assholes/people who want to hurt us.
So what are your thoughts on this? Do you stay mum about your feminism or are you out and proud about it?
Yeah I'd say I relate to feminist causes.
I know for sure I don't get along well with men who are close-minded, overbearing, misogynist, male chauvinists, sexist, etc.
Like no way I could live in Middle East. Seems like parts of America are looking like parts of middle eastern culture with respect to treatment of women.
I know men and women are biologically different so there will always be some imbalances however i do think there should be as equal treatment in certain scenarios like closing the pay gap, women in leadership positions, women's choice for their bodies, not taxing menstrual necessities, eliminating the stigma of sex work, etc
Would I identify as feminist - not at this point in my life. I don't feel like I have that luxury. Too many trolls and hateful people that like to make assumptions about you like "all feminists are......(fill in the blank)". The less labels I have attached to me the more people can get to know me for me and not assume things based on a label.
But would I support the cause any day.
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
02-06-2017, 03:15 PM
What does this mean? Should we all stay off cam on this date? Can you imagine if every cammodel did that. Hell why not dancers,escorts,body rub girls everybody just said nope, not gonna work today. I just saw it on my twitter. https://twitter.com/womensmarch/status/828635618049720323
https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/strike1.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=720&h=480&crop=1
StellaPurr
02-06-2017, 08:13 PM
Interesting.... Do trans women count I wonder? Also I made the mistake of reading the comments and lord, the haters!
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
02-06-2017, 11:17 PM
Its the date to be announced thats the real problem. Its like putting the cart before the horse sort of thing. I know not everyone can afford to take a day off from whatever form of income that they may have. I don't think its a bad idea but really what is the idea? Who knows maybe tomorrow or the next day they'll reveal the idea so that those who do want to participate can make plans. I know that even then some won't be able to due to certain limitations. Is it a privileged concept? Maybe. But at least someone is trying. I'm giggling on the inside because if it's what I think it is, then that means that I a black sexworker can take off work any time I want to. According to some groups I'm not supposed to be in that position.
CharleyQuinn
02-07-2017, 12:04 AM
Interesting.... Do trans women count I wonder? Also I made the mistake of reading the comments and lord, the haters!
Transwomen are women ;)
CharleyQuinn
02-07-2017, 12:07 AM
I think they're trying to emulate what Iceland did with their women's strike. When they finally get a solid date I'll be participating. I know not every woman who wants to will be able to participate but those of us with the privilege and ability to do so should.
KLttyKat
02-07-2017, 12:15 AM
I think they're trying to emulate what Iceland did with their women's strike. When they finally get a solid date I'll be participating. I know not every woman who wants to will be able to participate but those of us with the privilege and ability to do so should.
I would love to participate....But I am a full time sex worker, LOL. So...I participated in the STILL WITH HER/ Womens Rights March in my local State Capitol. I am a PROUD die hard feminist. But 1. I don't like to take time off from my work (Real Life Domme/ABDL stuff) and Camming. Really--who would miss me if I was off for a day? My Virtual Pimp (Owner for Camming site)? --Ok lame joke. but you get what I mean.
Marches, Rallies, ETC. I am there. AND YES TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN. Just because you are not CIS-Gendered does NOT mean you are NOT a woman. AMEN AMEN.
CharleyQuinn
02-07-2017, 12:44 AM
I totally get it. We all do what we can where we can and that's how we make steady progress :)
Ohh one way to participate if you aren't able to not work is to not buy anything that day. Make sure you've got gas in your tank, groceries in the house, heck prepay the chinese delivery guy lol Our dollars work both ways :)
tempest666
02-07-2017, 01:16 AM
I believe in equality between the sexes however I do not consider myself a feminist. My political stances are pretty self explanatory on my handle @libertarianslut.
I tend to shy away from feminism because of the slut shaming that I have seen towards Melania Trump for her alleged sex worker past and towards sex workers in general. All this on supposedly liberal feminist sites like Huffpost Women.
StellaPurr
02-07-2017, 01:39 AM
Transwomen are women ;)
Nono by asking that question I didn't mean that trans women aren't women! Although I can see how it could've been misconstrued. I was trying to be inclusive because I know not all feminists see trans women as actual women and I know a lot of trans folk felt excluded at the women's marches that happened everywhere because of the symbolism that equated vaginas with womanhood which I don't agree with. I feel like I'm terrible at articulating this kind of thing so I'm sorry if my choice of words was offensive and I'll work on that for the future
EdithOutlier
02-07-2017, 11:52 AM
I think that there are obviously problematic sections of the feminist movement, and they have come out with some really weird things over the years like 'all penetration is rape', 'trans women are privileged men appropriating womanhood', 'sex workers who claim they aren't victims are experiencing false consciousness'.
However, I won't let those people take feminism from me. I won't let them exclude me from an equality movement with a century of activism history with their negativity. I know sex worker feminists who attend the big conferences and publish papers on inclusive feminism, they get a lot of hate from the people who don't like us, but making those people uncomfortable isn't our problem. If I allow those people to push me out of the feminist movement by making it sound crazy and exclusive and hateful, then they own it and I won't let them do that.
Feminism belongs to all of us. It belongs to cis women, trans women, gender queer, intersex, cis and trans men, anyone who believes that the gender dynamic in our society is toxic to all of us. It damages women's life experiences and men's too, it isn't us against them, it's us against the fucked up things we all learned as we grew in this culture. I'll continue to challenge that dynamic in the ways available to me, and I will continue to call myself a feminist, because fuck those people who don't want me to, feminism belongs to me too.
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
02-07-2017, 12:13 PM
I just can't keep up with the terminology to be honest.
KLttyKat
02-08-2017, 01:44 AM
cis=born in gender. I wholeheartedly believe that GENDER does not = your sex organs. I focused on human sexuality (behavioral addictions including sexual related ones) in my therapist studies. So fascinating.
BTW: What the hell was that that happened in the Senate tonight? Really? An OLD WHITE MAN tells a Smart, Qualified, and one of the most Progressive and Dynamic women of our time to basically shut the hell up and sit down? A Senator, A female senator is ordered to keep her mouth shut for bringing to the floor very important issues. She was exercising her rights! And now she isn't allowed to speak in these hearings. Bogus. She brought very relevant issues about How this soon to be SCOTUS Member has been questioned as being a racist. So, Senate Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell told a woman to shut up and sit down for bringing up how Jeff Sessions has in the past "litigated from the bench" and allowed racist voting policies to be enacted.
And then, God Bless Senator. Cory Booker, for speaking up. But he wasn't told to sit down. Was that because he is a man? God. I didn't know whether to cry or scream when I saw how Sen. Warren was treated. #LetLizSpeak
kanad3
02-08-2017, 11:44 AM
I am a Humanist, I believe in human rights and equality for all. I speak up and call out bullshit/hate whenever I feel compelled.
However, I've never had guys being sexist in my room in almost 7 years of being a Hoe.
Just gonna say if you read up on what feminism is, you'll realize that what you call humanism is feminism. For some reason some people decided they won't call themselves feminists and made up the word humanist which means the exact same thing.
Marina Starr
02-08-2017, 12:05 PM
I don't get caught up in label. Wether you are a humanist or a feminist or whatever you wanna call yourself, if you're doing good that's all that matters.
Just gonna say if you read up on what feminism is, you'll realize that what you call humanism is feminism. For some reason some people decided they won't call themselves feminists and made up the word humanist which means the exact same thing.
Companion57
02-08-2017, 12:31 PM
I consider myself a feminist, and I'm up front about it when people ask. I always say something like, "I am a feminist, but there are a lot of different schools of thought in feminism, so it's issue by issue for me."
Edit: hadn't realized someone else already mentioned this, but still. . .
A lot of women can't just not show up to work... Being able to simply declare "nope, not gonna work today" seems awfully privileged to me.
I'm not trying to bicker, I just don't get it. I want to understand what the serious collective objective of this "strike" actually is.
There was a similar type of strike orchestrated in Iceland in the 1970s. Icelandic women's rights were strengthened as a direct result of women organizing because 9 out of 10 women participated and took half a day off work. I'd like to know what the group's overarching statement is, but I think the message is pretty clear: don't fuck with women's rights. The only way to make it work is if you have the numbers, though.