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Sam38g
12-18-2017, 06:40 PM
OMG DONT be Shocked when it happens to you ladies... He is declaring all men predators & will eventually sexual & financially try to harm us repeatedly............. so shut up & just take it or NEVER get a job because it will always be a possibility.


NO, you are SHOCKED Jack that so many of you are being held accountable & fired. You are the one is shock that is happens so much & by many you have idolized.


You are in shock that female & male victims are demanding to be heard, demanding to be believed.

Do NOT get it twisted.......... You & all males are in shock & scared that your evil is coming back to bite you on the ass.

You came here to get those who deal with it as a major part of job to agree that it is okay & blame women for it. You are the one trying to twist it & make us turn against other women in other industries. You are the one who wants us to help dox the victims for you.

Now, while many of those women didn't have our backs, I am NOT turning on them like you want me too. I am not in the sex industry for you to be a weapon againsst other women. Anytime I've confronted women in the tech industry who wanted to blame us, it took me 3 tweets or less to show them that men treat us all the same and it is the same fight for all of us. Now they often tweet & retweet me.

Be scared, women are uniting. Sex workers around the world are networking & forming groups to change the laws & fight all this misogyny & sexism. Denying us equality will no longer be tolerated.

ScarletKitten
12-18-2017, 07:02 PM
Because, I am shocked that people are shocked about this - acting like they had no clue that high-powered men feel a sense of entitlement to treat women (and men) with a total lack of respect.

I thought women in the gentleman's club industry would agree that this is nothing new or worth being shocked about. You ladies see these high-powered men and know what they are really about, even the church-going family men, and even pastors. Give a guy some power and status and he feels entitled.

Then, the second part, is what to do about it?



So let's not do anything then, because, it is INEVITABLE that victims will freeze during sexual harassment or sexual assault, then feel ashamed, and not report the assault... The more shocking and horrific the incident is, the greater the freeze response to guaranty a submissive victim?

That is great news for the douchebags and predators of the world!

The freeze response can be overcome with self defense training. When you train, your mind does not freeze, it goes on autopilot - it says to itself, I am being attacked, but, I've trained for this, so, I know what to do. You react so fast, you don't even know what just happened. Did I just do that? Did I just break his nose and kick him in the balls. He is on the ground crying and there is no one else around, so yes, you did that.

How does it help to tell the younger generation of women that they should expect to freeze up during sexual assault or sexual harassment? Women should take self-defense classes and training should include non-violent sexual harassment - train young girls to have a auto response to inappropriate situations. It does not have to be a violent response, it can be merely saying, "No!" in a loud voice and walking away.

I get that we should not blame the victims and I apologize if I come across as doing that. It's not right, I know. I have people very close to me that have been victims. But, we should learn from all this - DON'T BE SHOCKED WHEN IT HAPPENS - BE READY!

Who said they were shocked by all this? I'm certainly not shocked, and that is fucking sad. To have the mindset that high-powered men are sexual predators by nature and that it isn't shocking.....that's really sad and twisted. But it is what it is. I do have some self defense training, but that only covers some bases. Like I said before, in some situations it can be difficult to retaliate. If I actually got violent in the club in response to being sexually assaulted, I might be thrown in jail. Who's side are the cops going to be on? The stripper who got sexually assaulted, or the male patron who claims he didn't do anything? I mean, come on. Society isn't exactly on our side as strippers/ sex workers.

And dude, I don't need you to fucking tell me to be ready to fight off sexual assault at any given moment. I ALREADY AM FUCKING PREPARED. I've dealt with this shit so many times before you have no fucking idea. So get off your high horse. This is the reality I deal with, not you. Just typing this shit is giving me PTSD so I'm out of this thread. I'm going to go make myself feel better now.

miss.a.p1600
12-18-2017, 07:07 PM
I do have some self defense training, but that only covers some bases.

Exactly my point - while having self defense training (hell even weapon training) is way better than nothing at all ------ a true manipulative predator will try to immobilize you BEFORE you can apply any karate, before you reach for any weapon, or whatnot.

OP is so simple in his thinking he is not accounting for situations like
-gang rapes
-covert druggings
-marital rapes
-adults raping elderly/young kids
-etc.

OH BUT They should have been prepared though.....

FOH!

ScarletKitten
12-18-2017, 07:15 PM
fucking face palm. some dick on a stripper site trying to tell me to be prepared. like no shit....REALLY?!?!?!!!!! omg what a thought~ it had never occurred to me.....duhhhhhh.

A stripper's job half the time is being in defensive/ protective mode.

eagle2
12-18-2017, 07:40 PM
I agree with this and that is one of the biggest problems with our testosterone-driven society that celebrates hyper-aggressive male athletes, executives, politicians, etc. These are not men who are accustomed asking for consent. The men who are celebrated in our society are the hyper-aggressive men for whom "don't take 'no' for an answer" is a mantra.

We will see what type of men are left standing when all the dust clears. Probably the bespectacled lawyers and accountants who are obsessive-compulsive about following the letter of the law and getting the right kind of permits and consents about everything before embarking on it.

You're making baseless accusations against a group of people, just because of their wealth and/or position. Just because someone is a great athlete, actor, or businessman doesn't mean they're anymore likely to sexually assault or harass someone than any other man. Just ask any attractive female who's had to walk past a construction site. Maybe it seems like it's mostly rich and powerful men who do it, because those are the cases reported in the news, but there are plenty of women who've had to deal with sexual assault or harassment from average middle or lower class men.

Genoveve
12-18-2017, 07:51 PM
I'm certainly not saying I condone the bad acts that have brought down so many high-profile 'alpha' men, but, it shocks me that people are shocked about this bahavior

I think that has more to do with what kind of people you're around, no one I know has been shocked by any of these allegations.


I think a lot of women who go work for these aggressive 'alpha' men should have known what to expect and should have prepared themselves better. Like, if I go work for a diva (pop star, celebrity, etc.) and she treats me like shit, nobody is going to sympathize with me, because, everyone know that is to be expected from a diva. I made the choice to work for a diva, so I subjected myself to her abuse. If you work for a diva, you can expect to be treated like garbage now and again, and, you need to draw the line where you will say enough-is-enough, even if it means losing your job.

You're assuming that all of these women who were sexually harassed by their bosses knew full-well ahead-of-time that these guys were predators and perverts. I don't think that can be assumed. Let's say you go work for a female celebrity that you've never heard anything bad about---and then she ends up being a complete tyrant and throws cellphones at you? I don't think it's uncommon for an employee to not know a lot of personal information about their prospective employers.

I understand what you're saying because I'm all for personal accountability and it drives me nuts when I see people put themselves in the dumbest situations and then freak the fuck out and cry 'victim' when it inevitably blows up in their faces, but I don't have any reason to assume that that's what has happened in these situations that you're referencing.

Sam38g
12-18-2017, 08:08 PM
Know who needs to be prepared? Men

Before Corporations bought sexual harassment insurance policies to protect Predators. They fired & helped dig up dirty to make victims out to look like liars & discredit them. Stock holders will want a forensic accounting of all money paid out to protect Predators.

HR departments are being called upon for those who have the most & worst complaints on file.

If fired or stepped down & married due to sexual harassment or rape.. Plenty of wives will use that in a divorce to get HUGE settlements they deserve. Cause if you are a bully at work then you are a bully at home & now she has REAL evidence of it.

Be prepared for lawsuits of past victims wanting settlements they deserve.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

What has changed in that makes it harder to hide. Social media & victims being able to connect with other victims instead of being told it was just a one time thing.

Mobile phones, this is revenge of the Dick Pics & sexually explicit text men send to women with ZERO invite to do so. It is actual proof in our emails, text messages of what we deal with all the time.

Men need to be prepared for all their dirty secrets to be made public. Been saying it for 5 years now there are NO more secrets.

DeathAndTaxes
12-18-2017, 08:18 PM
I simply cannot relate, a diva would never throw a phone at me because she would know I would swat it and break it.

Growing up I always stood up to bullies, I was always bigger than my peers, but much older kids were definitely bigger than me. All it took was standing up in their face and all of a sudden the situation was defused.

That is why I enjoy seeing Weinstein getting crushed, he is just a bully and people are finally standing up to him, even after the fact.

StevieC
12-18-2017, 09:20 PM
Sorry, ladies, I know I'm new, but I can't just lurk this thread anymore. Jack, did you really just tell us to be ready when it happens like we haven't been ready for it every single day since the moment we grew boobs? I was nearly abducted when I was twelve by some upper middle class looking pervert. I know these men lurk everywhere. They lurk in places you can't even believe. I've BEEN READY. Classic mansplaining, but color me surprised.

seashell
12-19-2017, 03:51 AM
I tried to read the first post.

“We all know men are pigs”

“Why are we shocked... I mean obvi we are abusive douchebags”

“But what even is abusive douchebaggery? What is this “sexual harrassment?” Interacting with women is becoming so complicated”

“Every reply gives me 1 boner”

Did I sum that up correctly?

Jack, you are arguing about sexual harrassment with women who are regularly sexually harrassed. I don’t understand the point other than to get attention. You can’t possibly believe the only way for society to handle this issue is for women to accept it and say “no” loudly to their abusers. Should I carry mace and a rape whistle to work, just in case?

whirlerz
12-19-2017, 04:19 AM
I tried to read the first post.

“We all know men are pigs”

“Why are we shocked... I mean obvi we are abusive douchebags”

“But what even is abusive douchebaggery? What is this “sexual harrassment?” Interacting with women is becoming so complicated”

“Every reply gives me 1 boner”

Did I sum that up correctly?

Jack, you are arguing about sexual harrassment with women who are regularly sexually harrassed. I don’t understand the point other than to get attention. You can’t possibly believe the only way for society to handle this issue is for women to accept it and say “no” loudly to their abusers. Should I carry mace and a rape whistle to work, just in case?

OMG, can I thank this post, like a million times?^.
Seriously, you come on a forum for women sex workers w/this shit?::) Alrighty then

Actually, I'd like to carry a gun everywhere, but then I'd end up in jail so..

Sam38g
12-19-2017, 04:51 AM
OMG, can I thank this post, like a million times?^.
Seriously, you come on a forum for women sex workers w/this shit?::) Alrighty then

Actually, I'd like to carry a gun everywhere, but then I'd end up in jail so..

Have a friend that a man tried to run off the road & rape her at gun point. She shot him, guess who ended up in jail? She did because he only had a knife.

So we can NOT legally protect ourselves unless it with the same type of weapon the Rapist is using

slowpoke
12-19-2017, 06:31 AM
Actually, I'd like to carry a gun everywhere, but then I'd end up in jail so..

Move to Texas, get a license to carry.

whirlerz
12-19-2017, 09:56 AM
Move to Texas, get a license to carry.

Pokey. What about the Snakes tho?

slowpoke
12-19-2017, 10:23 AM
If you don't keep poultry you have nothing to worry about.

Sam38g
12-19-2017, 12:13 PM
Move to Texas, get a license to carry.

My friend had a license to carry. IT was that license & the fact she took a gun safety class used against her in the court room. How she should have known how to de-esculate the situation without it. He tried to kill her by running her off the road & then pulled a knife on her so he could rape her.

He was the victim in the eyes of the law. She was a stripper so what did she expect.
Ladies I do adore you,but the snakes thing on such important threads........... really?

miss.a.p1600
12-19-2017, 12:46 PM
Wow. I wonder what the OP has to say about her "being prepared" yet still being victimized not just by that creep but also by the "justice" system.

whirlerz
12-19-2017, 01:02 PM
My friend had a license to carry. IT was that license & the fact she took a gun safety class used against her in the court room. How she should have known how to de-esculate the situation without it. He tried to kill her by running her off the road & then pulled a knife on her so he could rape her.

He was the victim in the eyes of the law. She was a stripper so what did she expect.
Ladies I do adore you,but the snakes thing on such important threads........... really?

Important?
Maybe the gun thing yes, but some jerk being offensive to women on a women's forum (even though it's the general section, regardless it's offensive)
I didn't care for a couple of your recent posts either but I left it alone, til now.

Sam38g
12-19-2017, 02:01 PM
Why do you feel the need to post about snakes on every single thread on this site?
To derail numerous threads for your mere amusement.

ScarletKitten
12-19-2017, 03:25 PM
^Yeah, seriously, the snakes thing is annoying. It's complete overkill and not funny at all, and it does derail the threads. How many times are ya'll going to go back and forth with this snake bullshit?


Anyway....noone is shocked that men are pieces of shit who like to violate women's boundaries. They have no respect for women whatsoever. They may pretend they do, but it's all a game to them.....to get what they want. But I don't trust a single man on this planet anymore. Sad, eh?

Sam38g
12-19-2017, 03:46 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/19/us/ford-chicago-sexual-harassment.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

Here is the first paragraph describing what it is like for women who work at the Ford Plants
----------------------------------------
Bosses and fellow laborers treated them as property or prey. Men crudely commented on their breasts and buttocks. Graffiti of penises was carved into tables, spray-painted onto floors and scribbled onto walls. They groped women, pressed against them, simulated sex acts or masturbated in front of them. Supervisors traded better assignments for sex and punished those who refused.

baer45
12-19-2017, 06:10 PM
My friend had a license to carry. IT was that license & the fact she took a gun safety class used against her in the court room. How she should have known how to de-esculate the situation without it. He tried to kill her by running her off the road & then pulled a knife on her so he could rape her.



Really? A lawyer would like to throw shit on the wall to see what sticks. Like "you not suppose to modify your trigger and stuff." I don't care what the lawyer wants to say, I am a weak female. I am afraid of being raped and killed, therefore the only thing prevents me from being assaulted is my gun. Yes, I am put in a situation that I have no way to retreat , no other choice but to kill the guy. " It's my tactical training saved my life."

Sam38g
12-19-2017, 07:08 PM
Women go to jail all the time after killing their attacker. Especially in spousal abuse cases.

Can NOT assume the law is fair & just, there are many times where it isn't.

eagle2
12-19-2017, 08:09 PM
Have a friend that a man tried to run off the road & rape her at gun point. She shot him, guess who ended up in jail? She did because he only had a knife.

So we can NOT legally protect ourselves unless it with the same type of weapon the Rapist is using

I know someone who was assaulted by a man in his home. She sprayed him with mace. He called the police on her, and she was the one who ended up getting arrested.

Sam38g
12-19-2017, 08:33 PM
I want fairness, justice & equal protection under the law. Equality for all woman, equal pay & fair playing field for men & women. How unfair all the odds that are stacked against us is coming out.

How women in every industry are treated just the same as we are & being the good girl who followed all the rules did not protect them at all.

Djoser
12-19-2017, 09:00 PM
Christ sexual harassment in the clubs is pretty much endemic.

Curiously enough, the very worst manager I ever saw as far as grabbing the girls was female. She'd just walk right up and pull the classic Trump 'grab them by the pussy' move, in front of the entire club. I saw this numerous times, usually she'd feel their breasts as well. She also liked to say 'If it's a girl it doesn't count.', meaning that it was entirely OK for her to bang any dancer she wanted, because she wasn't a man.

But then every time she wound up fucking one of the dancers, there'd be drama and the dancer would leave, just as will happen so often in clubs with dickheads as managers.

Anyway just throwing that out there.


This thread has been reported, and I'm very close to closing it. But there's some great points being made, amongst the problem posts.

Jack, I understand where you are coming from, but since this is a female industry forum, your thread was bound to get some bad reactions.

Everyone try to be cool, or I will close the thread to avoid further drama.

Luckyguy09
12-19-2017, 09:02 PM
This is nothing new, Jack. Your posts here are not enlightening. I've heard all this garbage before.

Yeah, women should stand up for themselves, HOWEVER- please consider the power play in sexual assault situations. People don't speak up because their career would be threatened, or like Miss.ap said above, shock is a very real thing that happens. Like a car crash. Sometimes you can't react immediately. I mean seriously, why do we need to explain this to you? Are you really that dense?

Men get sexually assaulted and shocked and feel powerless as well. Did you hear what happened to Terry Crews? Big, tall, muscular guy felt completely powerless that he was sexually assaulted. Yeah, we should all stand up for ourselves and "be prepared for battle" yada yada.....in theory, sounds like the perfect plan.....until it actually happens to you and there are variables at play that make it difficult or impossible to fight back/ speak up....etc.

Not to mention....that fighting off sexual assault constantly is fucking exhausting and sometimes you just want to stop fighting. But you could never understand that because you've never been a female or a stripper so.....

kindly stfu.

There is no need to blame any victims here. Just stop. Fucking stop and sit down.




I'm actually a decent looking guy and when I was living in California around 2006 I had (and still do) men and women approach me and tell me that I'm handsome or good looking. Had talent scouts approach me in public to do extra work in Hollywood .... Whatever...

Well I was friends with this one legit model and she told me to use her agent and I sat on that info for like a year and one day i said why not try for the heck of it.. I'm in L.A. right?

Long story short, this well known agent I visited in W Los Angeles was a masculine gay man and he cleverly tried to set a situation up where I could possibly get work if I had sex with him on the spot. He was so slick about it where he was taking pictures of me and luring me from his office to his home all while telling me how he could help my career that I didn't even care about to begin with. Was just looking for side money as an extra and get the SAG card or whatever.

Anyway, when I refused the same guy who paid for my meal and talked to me for hours at his private home turned ice cold and didn't say a word to me from his house to dropping me off at the bus stop because at the time I didn't have my own car. I'm convinced getting into Hollywood in a big way regardless if you're male or female you have to have sex with someone or they will blacklist you.

For years I heard how sick people run Hollywood and I would often wonder why actors and actresses who seem to have it all are all bent out on drugs and alcohol and it's probably due to the things they had to do or things that happened to them along the way.

Djoser
12-19-2017, 09:13 PM
For years I heard how sick people run Hollywood and I would often wonder why actors and actresses who seem to have it all are all bent out on drugs and alcohol and it's probably due to the things they had to do or things that happened to them along the way.

Read a book about JFK that was saying he regularly got new Hollywood starlets to bang him, or else their careers would never take off. I wasn't there, but not being a huge Kennedy fan & knowing his rep otherwise, I'm inclined to believe it.

But that's far from the only reason for the substance abuse. Actors, artists, writers, etc. tend to have issues with that already, sad to say. Though an artistic type that's been sexually blackmailed would no doubt tend to be even worse!

jack0177057
12-21-2017, 11:18 AM
You are not shocked because you relate to entitled males. You are not shocked because instead of expecting better behavior of males you are dismissive of this behavior and telling women we should just expect predatory behavior from all men.

Knowing that we live in a fucked up culture that spoils rotten certain people (athletes, actors, singers, CEOs, etc.), hands them everything on a silver plate and, at best, gives them a little slap on the wrist when they misbehave,... and knowing that stupid people worship them, idolize them and kiss their ass,... and then act so damn surprised that these people are not Gods, but demons ---- having this knowledge that these spoiled rotten human beings have a sinister side to them - DOES NOT MAKE ME DISMISSIVE of their behavior. I know enough to stay away from egotistical narcissistic spoiled individuals, and if I MUST deal with people like that, I expect the worst from them.


Yes having self-defense skills are beneficial but that is nothing for the predator with a gun/knife/etc who shoots/stabs/etc immobilized you in some manner before you can lay hands on him.

The incidents we are talking about (recent headlines news about celebrities and politicians) do not involve weapons. If you want to talk about weapons, then, personally, I believe every woman should carry mace and a gun for their protection. I also believe women should train to use these weapons, because, without proper training, they could end up being used against you or you could hurt an innocent bystander. But, guns are another debate.


This is one of the dumbest thing you have said all day. Tell that to the toddlers/toddlers parents when a rapists rapes them. Tell that to the parents of 6 year old in India gang raped who died of her injuries.

It is only dumb, because, you are changing the conversation. Again, the incidents we are talking about (recent headlines news about celebrities and politicians) do not involve toddles. (Toddlers are defenseless? I had no idea!) In the case of children, parents, teachers, guardians are responsible for their protection. Moreover, if we learned anything at all from the Catholic Church scandals, it is that you can trust NO ONE with your kids, not even a priest. Parents need to continuously monitor their neighborhoods to see if there are any predators living nearby. They also need to ask a lot of questions about the teachers and school procedures, etc. They can never feel entirely 'safe' about leaving their kids with someone, even a relative. They must be ON GUARD at ALL TIMES. Parents have a HUGE responsibility as parents to protect their babies, and if they cannot be EXTREMELY VIGILANT ALL THE TIME in this regard, they should not have kids.

jack0177057
12-21-2017, 11:51 AM
Anyway, when I refused the same guy who paid for my meal and talked to me for hours at his private home turned ice cold and didn't say a word to me from his house to dropping me off at the bus stop because at the time I didn't have my own car. I'm convinced getting into Hollywood in a big way regardless if you're male or female you have to have sex with someone or they will blacklist you.

I am not surprised at all by this, and, that does not mean that I am dismissive of it.

There is another potential villain in all this and that is - the individuals who (voluntarily) use sex to get ahead. They encourage sexual predators and create the sense of entitlement. As an analogy, I've heard many dancers complain on this board that extras dancers cause a menace for non-extras dancers in the club. First of all, the non-extras dancers feel pressure to do things they are not comfortable with in order to compete, and second, the customers will start expecting all dancers to perform extras, and be very disappointed with clean ones.

Ian McKellen, star of “Lord of the Rings” and “X-Men,” said that when he started his career in the early 1960s, some women applied for theater jobs with photographs marked with a special message to the directors, "DRR", which meant, directors’ rights respected, which meant that sex was part of the deal. If you are a clean attractive actress, how can you compete with an attractive actress that gives head? Should these women (or men) that offer up sex to get the job be prosecuted on prostitution charges? Or, is a woman (or man) free to do whatever she wants with her body, including offering it up in this manner, even though it gives her an unfair advantage and causes collateral damage to other women?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ian-mckellen-actresses-directors-sex_us_5a38ea02e4b0c65287ac068f

miss.a.p1600
12-21-2017, 01:55 PM
I am not surprised at all by this, and, that does not mean that I am dismissive of it.

There is another potential villain in all this and that is - the individuals who (voluntarily) use sex to get ahead. They encourage sexual predators and create the sense of entitlement. As an analogy, I've heard many dancers complain on this board that extras dancers cause a menace for non-extras dancers in the club. First of all, the non-extras dancers feel pressure to do things they are not comfortable with in order to compete, and second, the customers will start expecting all dancers to perform extras, and be very disappointed with clean ones.

Ian McKellen, star of “Lord of the Rings” and “X-Men,” said that when he started his career in the early 1960s, some women applied for theater jobs with photographs marked with a special message to the directors, "DRR", which meant, directors’ rights respected, which meant that sex was part of the deal. If you are a clean attractive actress, how can you compete with an attractive actress that gives head? Should these women (or men) that offer up sex to get the job be prosecuted on prostitution charges? Or, is a woman (or man) free to do whatever she wants with her body, including offering it up in this manner, even though it gives her an unfair advantage and causes collateral damage to other women?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ian-mckellen-actresses-directors-sex_us_5a38ea02e4b0c65287ac068f

It does sound like you are being dismissive because rather than simply say something like "damn that's unreal some of these males are sexually aggressive and should learn some boundaries" you come up with every scenario - unrelated to the topic at hand - to make excuses for the predators.

It seems You are looking for some sort of reassurance that males are wrongly accused or that males are protected from abuse or whatnot. That's understandable. It doesn't matter what gender, race, economic status, etc. sexual abuse/assault is never okay.

However, there is a DISPROPORTIONATE rate of females, low economic status, and youth being assaulted sexually compared to adult males.

Why is that Jack?


Knowing that we live in a fucked up culture that spoils rotten certain people (athletes, actors, singers, CEOs, etc.), hands them everything on a silver plate and, at best, gives them a little slap on the wrist when they misbehave,... and knowing that stupid people worship them, idolize them and kiss their ass,... and then act so damn surprised that these people are not Gods, but demons ---- having this knowledge that these spoiled rotten human beings have a sinister side to them - DOES NOT MAKE ME DISMISSIVE of their behavior. I know enough to stay away from egotistical narcissistic spoiled individuals, and if I MUST deal with people like that, I expect the worst from them.

I see what you are saying Jack. BUT I believe your viewpoint is also enabling.

If I knew a dude was egotistical, narcissistic, spoiled. No I would not deal with a person like that. However narcissist - many of them are covert and highly manipulative - and you don't realize they are narcissists until AFTER they have gained your trust, you have married them, had a child with them, started a business with them, started working for them, etc.

For me instead of expecting the worst from people (which is somewhat enabling imo), I'd expect consequences and law enforcement for criminals regardless of their financial/social status.

eagle2
12-21-2017, 02:00 PM
Knowing that we live in a fucked up culture that spoils rotten certain people (athletes, actors, singers, CEOs, etc.), hands them everything on a silver plate and, at best, gives them a little slap on the wrist when they misbehave,... and knowing that stupid people worship them, idolize them and kiss their ass,... and then act so damn surprised that these people are not Gods, but demons ---- having this knowledge that these spoiled rotten human beings have a sinister side to them - DOES NOT MAKE ME DISMISSIVE of their behavior. I know enough to stay away from egotistical narcissistic spoiled individuals, and if I MUST deal with people like that, I expect the worst from them.

Again, why are you demonizing a certain group of people, just because of their success? No, these people do not have everything handed to them on a silver plate. Do you have any idea of how hard some of the athletes and other successful people have worked to get to their level and stay there? Many of these people spend a significant amount of time and money helping other people who are less fortunate. Angelina Jolie probably spends as much time doing charitable work as she does acting.

http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/lg/public/2013/11/19/jolie-charity-INTRO-630.jpg

Here's George Clooney's response to be considered 'elite':
https://www.salon.com/2017/09/26/george-clooney-donald-trump/


Here’s the thing: I grew up in Kentucky. I sold insurance door-to-door. I sold ladies’ shoes. I worked at an all-night liquor store. I would buy suits that were too big and too long and cut the bottom of the pants off to make ties so I’d have a tie to go on job interviews. I grew up understanding what it was like to not have health insurance for eight years.


This doesn't sound like he was handed everything on a silver plate.

Just like any large group of people, you can find some who are assholes among many successful athletes, entertainers, and business-people. It doesn't mean they are all bad and it doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of regular people who sexually harass or sexually assault others.

Telling women to stay away from these people will do nothing to solve their problems with sexual harassment because there are countless men who aren't successful athletes or movie stars, who still have little respect for women. There is no reason for women to avoid opportunities, just because they would be dealing with someone who is very successful in their field. If she does take an opportunity where she works with someone in the categories you described, it is the responsibility of that person to not sexually harass or assault her, not the responsibility of the female to avoid that person.

Genoveve
12-21-2017, 02:13 PM
Knowing that we live in a fucked up culture that spoils rotten certain people (athletes, actors, singers, CEOs, etc.), hands them everything on a silver plate and, at best, gives them a little slap on the wrist when they misbehave,... and knowing that stupid people worship them, idolize them and kiss their ass,... and then act so damn surprised that these people are not Gods, but demons ---- having this knowledge that these spoiled rotten human beings have a sinister side to them - DOES NOT MAKE ME DISMISSIVE of their behavior. I know enough to stay away from egotistical narcissistic spoiled individuals, and if I MUST deal with people like that, I expect the worst from them.

Jeez. No offense but you sound like those hysterical people I always see online who are obsessed with the idea that famous, successful people are all literally purely evil devil-worshippers.

Vyanka
12-21-2017, 02:16 PM
I am not surprised at all by this, and, that does not mean that I am dismissive of it.

There is another potential villain in all this and that is - the individuals who (voluntarily) use sex to get ahead. They encourage sexual predators and create the sense of entitlement. As an analogy, I've heard many dancers complain on this board that extras dancers cause a menace for non-extras dancers in the club. First of all, the non-extras dancers feel pressure to do things they are not comfortable with in order to compete, and second, the customers will start expecting all dancers to perform extras, and be very disappointed with clean ones.

Ian McKellen, star of “Lord of the Rings” and “X-Men,” said that when he started his career in the early 1960s, some women applied for theater jobs with photographs marked with a special message to the directors, "DRR", which meant, directors’ rights respected, which meant that sex was part of the deal. If you are a clean attractive actress, how can you compete with an attractive actress that gives head? Should these women (or men) that offer up sex to get the job be prosecuted on prostitution charges? Or, is a woman (or man) free to do whatever she wants with her body, including offering it up in this manner, even though it gives her an unfair advantage and causes collateral damage to other women?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ian-mckellen-actresses-directors-sex_us_5a38ea02e4b0c65287ac068f

As much as I like to come to SW to VENT about shitty customers...not all of mine EXPECT stuff, and I work in a extras club. I've had plenty of NICE & GENEROUS guys ASK what is ok and not, bc they don't want to cross my boundaries. Those are decent human beings, and don't use the strip club environment excuse to act like a piece of shit.

Djoser
12-21-2017, 03:02 PM
I was never attracted to the alpha types. I'm the alpha up in this bitch.

Best reply in the thread.

She takes the power for herself, and takes shit from no man.


Anyway, more than enough said on the subject. It makes as much sense as a woman going to a male oriented forum and posting how guys just need to avoid manipulative women.