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OmegaWest
07-05-2019, 08:33 PM
This post is a generalization about Latino guys and it's not quite accurate, no offense. Latino men can be big spenders. I've made plenty from them through the years. And I know many dancers on here can confirm this.

There are obvious exceptions to the norm. And im sure for every dancer here who had a good Latino customer, can also say they had more that were not the exception and usually the difference is where they are from and how they are raised.

Vyanka
07-05-2019, 10:40 PM
I won't dance for most European men either. They think the American culture of strip clubs is stupid, bc they are use to brothels back home. Or they come in confused thinking the strip club is a brothel. English men are the exception for me. Most have been generous gentlemen.

Selina M
07-06-2019, 05:04 PM
There are obvious exceptions to the norm. And im sure for every dancer here who had a good Latino customer, can also say they had more that were not the exception and usually the difference is where they are from and how they are raised.

This I agree with. I'm not sure how we are ethnically grouping here, as far as Latino vs Hispanic... Latinos from other countries can be good. Here it's the Mexicans/Hispanics that are a problem 90% of the time. It seems to correlate as well with how much English they speak & how long they've been in this country. Those that are 40+ years old & speak English well are less trouble than their younger counterparts.

lynn2009
07-06-2019, 07:52 PM
I quickly walked away from anyone who could not speak at least conversational English. Go to excuse for bad behavior, hard pass.

Selina M
07-07-2019, 01:50 PM
I quickly walked away from anyone who could not speak at least conversational English. Go to excuse for bad behavior, hard pass.

Yeah, it is kinda funny how well they suddenly speak English when you ask for a dance/money... and also "no" is the same in both languages. That's always fun to call them out on ::)

jack0177057
07-08-2019, 09:36 AM
You had me up until this part. I agree completely that prostitution should be decriminalised -- but the club is NOT the place for prostitution, regardless of whether or not it's legal. That's what brothels/agencies and independent incall/outcall providers are for.

But, this thread is about strip clubs not brothels and there is already a lot of "brothel" activity going in at most clubs. If the only thing that changed is de-criminalization, would that automatically turn them into "brothels", even though the only things that changed is the law?

If prostitution is decriminalized, you can expect that most strip clubs will offer a full menu. It is the logical next step for strip club owners (with profits in decline). Whether we call it a "strip club with legal extras" or a "brothel" is just semantics.

Does this mean that 'clean' dancers will be pushed out of the clubs? First of all, it hasn't happened yet and there are already extras girls at most clubs. Second, some men cannot afford to pay for full service very often, so, they will have to settle for lap dances. Third, some men don't want full service. Personally, I love high contact lap dances - but, that is my limit. I am married, and although I am no saint, this is were I draw the line on compromising my values. I am sure there are many more like me.


You are also being very naive if you believe 'colour coding' is going to prevent sexual harassment.

When I go to a strip club, I know that the cocktail waitress is not going to sit on my lap and grind on me and I don't ask or pressure her to do these things, no matter how sexy she looks. If there are clear signs of a dancer's boundaries, most men will respect that. Of course there are creeps, a-holes and sexual predators that are a menace to society and they prey on all types of vulnerable women. Women in the adult entertainment business and sex workers are vulnerable women that need to be protected. (Prostitutes can be raped just like any other woman.) Dancers and prostitutes both need to have effective personal protection measures.

Also, a stripclub with escorts would have different VIP rooms for different services - a room with comfortable arm chairs for lap dances and a private little bedroom for sexual activities. You can have bouncers INSIDE the lap dance rooms and you can have bouncers standing outside the bedrooms.

OmegaWest
07-08-2019, 10:10 AM
But, this thread is about strip clubs not brothels and there is already a lot of "brothel" activity going in at most clubs. If the only thing that changed is de-criminalization, would that automatically turn them into "brothels", even though the only things that changed is the law?

If prostitution is decriminalized, you can expect that most strip clubs will offer a full menu. It is the logical next step for strip club owners (with profits in decline). Whether we call it a "strip club with legal extras" or a "brothel" is just semantics.

Does this mean that 'clean' dancers will be pushed out of the clubs? First of all, it hasn't happened yet and there are already extras girls at most clubs. Second, some men cannot afford to pay for full service very often, so, they will have to settle for lap dances. Third, some men don't want full service. Personally, I love high contact lap dances - but, that is my boundary. I am married, and I am no saint, but, this is were I draw the line. I'm sure there are many more like me.



When I go to a strip club, I know that the cocktail waitress is not going to sit on my lap and grind on me and I don't pressure her to do these things, no matter how attractive and sexy she looks. If there are clear signs of a dancer's boundaries, most men will respect that. Of course there are creeps, a-holes and sexual predators that are a menace to society and they prey on all types of vulnerable women. Women in the adult entertainment business and sex workers are vulnerable women that need to be protected. (Prostitutes can be raped just like any other woman.) Dancers and prostitutes both need to have personal protection measures.

A stripclub with escorts would have different VIP rooms for different services - a room with comfortable arm chairs for lap dances and a private little bedroom for sexual activities.

I can sum it up with one phrase. Some club owners, even though seen as greedy misogynists, actually have limits. now sure there are and always will be exceptions, but even if prostitution is decriminalized, that doesnt mean they want to be seen as a place they may have spent millions of dollars on, as a whorehouse.

Saying every club has extras or even most clubs have brothel activities, is like saying every customer wants to see the same girl. It simply isnt the truth.

Not to mention, just because the girl wont be charged with a criminal act, doesnt mean the guy cant be, since there is no talk of taking soliciting for prostitution off the criminal books.

This just means your streetwalkers and escorts wont be charged, they will still take the guy to jail.

Now granted some girls are sneaky, and have learned how to perform extras without it being blatently obvious. However, most club owners I know when they find a girl who just cant keep things unseen, are tossed right out the door. Simply because the hassle from both the media and the municipalities are just not worth it.

jack0177057
07-08-2019, 10:42 AM
Agreed, color coding is for hospitals during major traumas, or concert access.

Even under the current system, where clubs have 'clean' and 'extras' dancers working side by side, I think a color system would prevent sexual harassment of clean dancers. If a guy goes into a club expecting that all dancers sell 'extras', he is going to be, at the very least, very offensive and obnoxious. But, if he knew exactly which dancers offered extras, everyone is better off.

I've had the opposite thing happen to me, I've had dancers become very pushy trying to sell extras and become disappointed that I would not open my wallet for these services. I would avoid these women if I had know they were extras dancers, because, I am only interested in lap dances. Color coding would be good for everyone. (I have nothing against extras dancers and escorts, but, I don't like being targeted for any kind of high-pressured sales tactics.)


If i want to run a brothel, Im sure not going to spend all the money to put a club together, I would build a lounge area and a hundred bedrooms.

But, if you are one of the hundreds of thousands of strip club owners with a half-empty club on a good night, would you think about making a few low-cost modifications to your club to accommodate extras/full service dancers that will make you ten times your current profit? (E.g., add a few beds and cheap walls or curtains to convert your VIP room into private mini-bedrooms.)


While decriminalizing prostitution, would be good, it would have to still be highly regulated. In europe , they have regular health checks, blood panels, and still you only see a few work the red light rooms, while hundreds work the actual clubs.

Most US cities already have licensing and registration procedures in place for dancers. We could build on this, instead of having to start an entire new system from scratch. An escort would have to start out with a dancer license ("class A license"), and then, get special safety & health training and certifications to obtain escorting licensing ("class B license"). The escort license should require, at minimum, health checks, drug testing, CPR training and basic self-defense training. Also, this process should involve a basic psychological exam. If a woman suffers from depression or anxiety, has suicidal tendencies, has any other health illness or is otherwise psychological unstable or if it appears that she feels pressured into prostitution by her landlord or other creditors, her significant other, a pimp, her condition of poverty, etc., then, - her application would be denied and she would be referred to social services.

OmegaWest
07-08-2019, 11:00 AM
Even under the current system, where clubs have 'clean' and 'extras' dancers working side by side, I think a color system would prevent sexual harassment of clean dancers. If a guy goes into a club expecting that all dancers sell 'extras', he is going to be, at the very least, very offensive and obnoxious. But, if he knew exactly which dancers offered extras, everyone is better off.

I've had the opposite thing happen to me, I've had dancers become very pushy trying to sell extras and become disappointed that I would not open my wallet for these services. I would avoid these women if I had know they were extras dancers, because, I am only interested in lap dances. Color coding would be good for everyone. (I have nothing against extras dancers and escorts, but, I don't like being targeted for any kind of high-pressured sales tactics.)



But, if you are one of the hundreds of thousands of strip club owners with a half-empty club on a good night, would you think about making a few low-cost modifications to your club to accommodate extras/full service dancers that will make you ten times your current profit? (E.g., add a few beds and cheap walls or curtains to convert your VIP room into private mini-bedrooms.)



Most US cities already have licensing and registration procedures in place for dancers. We could build on this, instead of having to start an entire new system from scratch. An escort would have to start out with a dancer license ("class A license"), and then, get special safety & health training and certifications to obtain escorting licensing ("class B license"). The escort license should require, at minimum, health checks, drug testing, CPR training and basic self-defense training. Also, this process should involve a basic psychological exam. If a woman suffers from depression or anxiety, has suicidal tendencies, has any other health illness or is otherwise psychological unstable or if it appears that she feels pressured into prostitution by her landlord or other creditors, her significant other, a pimp, her condition of poverty, etc., then, - her application would be denied and she would be referred to social services.

you have read the threads about the girls not wanting more fees right, now you expect them all to be licensed, which counties and cities would love to do, so then they had access to legal names and true addresses, so they could charge the fees. not to mention leaving a record that not all dancers want if ever doing a background check.

not that this has anything to do with this thread at all

jack0177057
07-08-2019, 01:31 PM
^^ I'm not sure you read my post correctly. I said dancers are ALREADY required to get licensed - at least in Texas cities. I am not sure about the rest of the U.S., but, I suspect in most major cities in the US they are required to get licenses.

StellaRose
07-08-2019, 02:05 PM
Interesting idea with the wristband in theory...but in reality I don’t think it would work out too well. For one thing, many men (especially with a more egotistical temperament) want what they can’t have and will absolutely pull mindgames trying to make redlight compete with green light and make it a bigger PITA and pressure to perform red light services. It’s not going to make red light’s job any easier. I do think both forms can coexist, but not in the exact same room and side by side. You can maybe have a brother across the street from the club maybe or something. (I’ve heard that’s how it is in Australia, correct me if I’m wrong)

Second of all, a lot of extras dancers, if you confront them to their face, will lie and claim they don’t do any of that. (For good reason, tbh)There are exceptions of course. But there’s enough denial that you can’t trust the wristband either. Guys get enough whatever from so-called red light wristbanders, and it all becomes worthless.

OmegaWest
07-08-2019, 02:10 PM
^^ I'm not sure you read my post correctly. I said dancers are ALREADY required to get licensed - at least in Texas cities. I am not sure about the rest of the U.S., but, I suspect in most major cities in the US they are required to get licenses.

nope, very few actually. sometimes only single counties, like palm beach in florida

OmegaWest
07-08-2019, 02:12 PM
Interesting idea with the wristband in theory...but in reality I don’t think it would work out too well. For one thing, many men (especially with a more egotistical temperament) want what they can’t have and will absolutely pull mindgames trying to make redlight compete with green light and make it a bigger PITA and pressure to perform red light services. It’s not going to make red light’s job any easier. I do think both forms can coexist, but not in the exact same room and side by side. You can maybe have a brother across the street from the club maybe or something. (I’ve heard that’s how it is in Australia, correct me if I’m wrong)

Second of all, a lot of extras dancers, if you confront them to their face, will lie and claim they don’t do any of that. (For good reason, tbh)There are exceptions of course. But there’s enough denial that you can’t trust the wristband either. Guys get enough whatever from green light wristbanders, and it all becomes worthless.

nevada is a prime example, I mentioned it above. Brothels are outside of town, dancers are inside town.

Australia does have both as well, but again highly regulated

jack0177057
07-09-2019, 10:43 AM
Interesting idea with the wristband in theory...but in reality I don’t think it would work out too well. For one thing, many men (especially with a more egotistical temperament) want what they can’t have and will absolutely pull mindgames trying to make redlight compete with green light and make it a bigger PITA and pressure to perform red light services. It’s not going to make red light’s job any easier.

But, isn't this already happening at most clubs? Pick just about any club and there are already extras and clean dancers co-existing. If the douchebags had powerful jedi mind powers, and clean dancers where so vulnerable to them, then 100% of dancers in every club would have already been converted to extras dancers.

With a wristband system, there could be a lot more protection for the 'clean' dancers than there is under the current system. For example, certain areas (redlight zones) will be completely off-limits to red-wristband ladies and their custies.

If a custie wants to take a lady to the back of the club where the tiny bedrooms are rented by the hour (the 'redlight zone' part of the club), he could NOT do so with a lady that has a red-wristband. The bouncer that collects the rent would evict them both from the club if they attempted to rent a room.

With decriminalization of prostitution there be strict enforcement of the rules and heavy penalties. The clubs will want to follow the law to the letter so as not to lose their profitable license.

A red-wristband girl can only take a custie to the lap dance rooms. These rooms will be monitored by a bouncer or a camera to make sure only lap dances are being sold there.

It will be in the club's best interest to strictly enforce the rules, because: (1) breaking the rules could get the clubs' license suspended or cancelled, (2) inadequate safety protection of red-wristband ladies could get their license suspended or cancelled, and (3) the club makes a lot more money from the green-wristband/redlight activities, so the club is getting cheated if red-wristband ladies are offering the same services in the lap rooms without giving the club its cut.

The worst that a douchebag with jedi mind tricks can accomplish in this scenario is sweet talk a dancer into upgrading her license, which will take her several weeks to process.

Bahuba
07-09-2019, 11:34 AM
Just to pop in here and say I miss the whole Paris style burlesque, where they had actual shows and actual talent, etc. In NYC we have Slipper Room, maybe Duane Park if you want to leave Manhattan and I guess Rick's?

StellaRose
07-09-2019, 12:40 PM
@jack I feel ya. That would be a very logical and straightforward way to go. And many logical and straightforward men like you would do well under that kind of system. And I personally appreciate types such as yourself.

You are being quite rational. But many others and dare I say most are not rational.

There are a subset of customers who are not interested in what would be considered the higher extras “volume” of a green wrist band. And would go out of his way to nail one of the red wrist band dancers because of the thrill of the chase. Our very own rickdugan makes it a sport to identify dancers who have a sudden and imminent financial issue and needs cash extra quick. And doesn’t care as much for the out and proud sluts.

Or even if they aren’t quite so...proactive many customers at the very least want the fantasy and illusion that she only does that with him. Even if it’s not true at all. And on the flip side, a dancer with a green band may not be “open” for every single customer. Or maybe she wants a few visits from him first. Or she would only entertain the thought with a select few and wouldn’t want to deal with the hassle.

And banning a dancer from any extras sanctioned VIP wouldn’t matter since the goal would be taking her outside the club for those shenanigans. This kind of dancer likely would never dream of upgrading her wristband because of 1) personal shaming and 2) she may have a guy she is openly accountable to.

At best, I consider it something that wouldn’t do much to change how clubs already operate. At worst, it gives Uncle Sam even more power to stick his nose into something where it doesn’t belong.

jack0177057
07-09-2019, 03:17 PM
@jack I feel ya. That would be a very logical and straightforward way to go. And many logical and straightforward men like you would do well under that kind of system. And I personally appreciate types such as yourself.

You are the nicest person I have ever argued with! Thank you for the compliment.


At best, I consider it something that wouldn’t do much to change how clubs already operate. At worst, it gives Uncle Sam even more power to stick his nose into something where it doesn’t belong.

I understand where you are coming from with Uncle Sam sticking his nose into prostitution. Yes, de-criminalization would require that these women disclose their profession in order to apply for a license and submit to things like drug testing and std testing. (And, if they haven't been reporting their income, they would have to start doing so). Some women may prefer to stay outside of the legalized, but heavily regulated, prostitution system.

On the benefits side of the equation, the women that embrace de-criminalization of prostitution would not be in constant fear of arrest and prosecution (and the consequences of having an arrest and criminal record) and they would have better personal protection (assuming they work at an establishment that provides adequate security) and they will probably become eligible for benefits they don't enjoy now (e.g., trade organizations that offer them 401(k), health plans, etc.).

It would be very interesting to take a survey of extras-dancers and sex workers that asks them whether they prefer the status-quo to decriminalizing their career.

Here is an interesting article about steps to decriminalize prostitution in DC and NYC:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43jbbd/sex-work-decriminalization-chances-of-passing-new-york

Bahuba
07-09-2019, 03:49 PM
@jack I feel ya. That would be a very logical and straightforward way to go. And many logical and straightforward men like you would do well under that kind of system. And I personally appreciate types such as yourself.

You are being quite rational. But many others and dare I say most are not rational.


I am going to study this post - she literally shivved your argument, and made you feel good about it!

jack0177057
07-09-2019, 05:24 PM
^ She proves you can disagree with someone and be nice about it. Not difficult to do, yet rare for some reason.

Many people react with hostility when they disagree. StellaRose and I may not agree, but, it is refreshing to argue with someone that is so nice while not agreeing with you. Also, I respect the good points she raises and her own point of view.

Look, I am merely playing devil's advocate. I do not have first-hand knowledge of any of this, because, I am not a extras-dancer or a prostitute (I would not mind being one, if the ladies were willing to pay for my mad dance moves and sex skills). I may be totally off in thinking that de-criminalizing prostitution and allowing it in the clubs is a good idea. It seems that, if extras are going to happen anyway, legalizing it would stop the police harassment of dancers (prostitution laws are BROADLY written in many cities and often include merely touching in the state of nudity) and provide regulations that protect everyone (including the clean dancers, the extras dancers and the custie).

But, I will not be presumptuous and claim to know more than the ladies that are actually in this line of work.

OmegaWest
07-09-2019, 06:48 PM
^ She proves you can disagree with someone and be nice about it. Not difficult to do, yet rare for some reason.

Many people react with hostility when they disagree. StellaRose and I may not agree, but, it is refreshing to argue with someone that is so nice while not agreeing with you. Also, I respect the good points she raises and her own point of view.

Look, I am merely playing devil's advocate. I do not have first-hand knowledge of any of this, because, I am not a extras-dancer or a prostitute (I would not mind being one, if the ladies were willing to pay for my mad dance moves and sex skills). I may be totally off in thinking that de-criminalizing prostitution and allowing it in the clubs is a good idea. It seems that, if extras are going to happen anyway, legalizing it would stop the police harassment of dancers (prostitution laws are BROADLY written in many cities and often include merely touching in the state of nudity) and provide regulations that protect everyone (including the clean dancers, the extras dancers and the custie).

But, I will not be presumptuous and claim to know more than the ladies that are actually in this line of work.

Jack this is the section of your quote, bolded and underlined, that is what has you hung up. Dancers are not prostitutes. Prostitutes may pretend to be dancers, but not the other way around.

Floormen, (I dont hire bouncers) have enough responsibility, to have landlord issues, since you mention evicting. Not to mention, if one ever let himself be bought to allow something, would cause yet another headache, where one isnt needed.

The biggest issue and one i mentioned before, just because there is no criminal act by the prostitute, doesnt mean the custie is not able to be arrested, or the club allowing such not being able to have their license pulled.

most laws you mentioned are in place where clubs have the strictest rules upon them above and beyond the normal prostitution laws. Feet from customer rules, etc.

Club owners are not going to open that can of worms, decriminalized or not. Brothel owners will rejoice. not really because where they exist legally they already exist legally.

I for one telling you this from the club owners/managers stand point. I would not, and will not allow open extras in any club that I have any say so over. Decriminalized or not. Wrist bands, rfi implants, color coded necklaces, or whatever.

Licenses cost thousands of dollars, sometimes hundreds of thousands depending where you may be. Dancers are for entertainment, and fantasy.

if you carefully read those decriminalization threads and posts, they are one side of the coin, while the other lands people in jail and chances to lose those licenses that cost so much to get.

It just is not worth it. If i wanted to be the next Bunny Ranch, I would not build a club to do so.

jack0177057
07-10-2019, 12:44 PM
I for one telling you this from the club owners/managers stand point. I would not, and will not allow open extras in any club that I have any say so over. Decriminalized or not. Wrist bands, rfi implants, color coded necklaces, or whatever.

First, as I said, most clubs already operate as brothels to some extent, even if there is only one dancer in the club performing extras. Men go to the club for fantasies,... and for extras,... whether you like it or not. I don't know how you can stop it, unless you are watching every single dancer performing every lap dance.

Second, many dancers are not what you or I would call "prostitutes", but, the puritanical local laws treats them that way - for example, in many Texas cities the PD will arrest and prosecute dancers for 'touching while in a state of nudity' which usually means the dancer did a high-contact lap dance where she rubbed her boobs on the customer's face. Men putting women in jail for the women's choice about what to do with their boobs! Even more ridiculous are the rules about keeping certain distances between dancers and custies.

If you have a strip club that is struggling already and all the other clubs are converting to some kind of hybrid strip club/legal brothel, you must either keep up with the competition or you must get out of the biz. If you have reasons why you would not do this (cost of licenses, morals, etc.), you would end up selling the club to someone who would pay good money to buy it from you to upgrade it to a full service club & license.

It is very simple, really. If prostitution is legalize, strip clubs owners will have a clear head start and be the first ones to get into the brothel biz, because: (1) they are already have a pool of ladies from which to recruit, (2) they will need very little investment/capital, i.e., they already have a building that can be easily converted into a brothel (take the VIP room and add privacy curtains or cheap sheetrock to section it into 5 or more little private rooms, add a mattress to each room, and... voila!) - as far as the license is concerned, if they do not have the cash to pay for the license, they will borrow money to pay for it -- see six below, (3) they know who the local players are for getting sexually oriented business (SOB) licenses and they are familiar with SOB red tape, (4) they have the lawyers that specialize in SOBs (and these lawyers will quickly familiarize themselves with the new laws and with agencies tasked with administrating the new laws), (5) they have the pool of potential customers, and (6) banks will be most likely to lend money to strip club owners (for building improvements or to buy licenses, etc.) than other applicants for the reasons mentioned in (1) through (5).

Everything I argue would be negated if the zoning for strip clubs is completely different than the zoning for brothels, e.g. if brothels can only be located within a very specific part of town (e.g., within a one-quarter mile radius of X or on blocks X, Y and Z) and your club is not in that designated area. However, most cities already have SOB zoning and the strip clubs are located within these SOB zones. Most likely, the brothels will be allowed within the SOB zones, so, there would be no zoning issue involved.

Vyanka
07-10-2019, 01:28 PM
That is cringe worthy. Shit. Keep the two seperate. I don't think that'll ever happen anyway.

OmegaWest
07-10-2019, 01:36 PM
First, as I said, most clubs already operate as brothels to some extent, even if there is only one dancer in the club performing extras. Men go to the club for fantasies,... and for extras,... whether you like it or not. I don't know how you can stop it, unless you are watching every single dancer performing every lap dance.

Second, many dancers are not what you or I would call "prostitutes", but, the puritanical local laws treats them that way - for example, in many Texas cities the PD will arrest and prosecute dancers for 'touching while in a state of nudity' which usually means the dancer did a high-contact lap dance where she rubbed her boobs on the customer's face. Men putting women in jail for the women's choice about what to do with their boobs! Even more ridiculous are the rules about keeping certain distances between dancers and custies.

If you have a strip club that is struggling already and all the other clubs are converting to some kind of hybrid strip club/legal brothel, you must either keep up with the competition or you must get out of the biz. If you have reasons why you would not do this (cost of licenses, morals, etc.), you would end up selling the club to someone who would pay good money to buy it from you to upgrade it to a full service club & license.

It is very simple, really. If prostitution is legalize, strip clubs owners will have a clear head start and be the first ones to get into the brothel biz, because: (1) they are already have a pool of ladies from which to recruit, (2) they will need very little investment/capital because they already have a building that can be easily converted into a brothel (take the VIP room and add privacy curtains or cheap sheetrock to section it into 5 or more little private rooms, add a mattress to each room, and... voila!), (3) they know who the local players are for getting sexually oriented business (SOB) licenses and they are familiar with SOB red tape, (3) they have the lawyers that specialize in SOBs (and these lawyers will quickly familiarize themselves with the new laws and with agencies tasked with administrating the new laws), (4) they have the pool of potential customers, and (5) banks will be most likely to lend money to strip club owners (for building improvements or to buy licenses, etc.) than other applicants for the reasons mentioned in (1) through (4).

if what you saying was true, then please explain why Las Vegas isnt all brothels? Its simple, because That 70000 sq ft club that is Sapphire, makes more money than the brothels just outside of town. As does Rhino and all the other Topless clubs on the strip.

Sure the brothels makes money, it was said that all of Dennis Hof's properties, 7 brothels, a strip club a restaurant some times could earn seven figures in a day, but tha was far from the norm. Not even in the same league as the clubs.

You like math so lets do some, 9 businesses and lets say 2 million to be nice that comes out to $222,222.22 each. Now this of course isnt a regular day so lets give 30 days at the 222k for the brothel. that leaves 335 days and lets say they average 75k per day which is alot of people going to a brothel each day with a 50/50 split and comes to 2.5 million plus the 222k x 30 is another 6.6 so we are at 9.1 million for the year gross revenue for our test brothel.


Now lets use our test Club Sapphire. They average 500 customers per day at 50-75 dollars per head. lets go low with the 50 so 25k for cover. They stay for maybe two hours, get a few dances, buy a few drinks, Average ticket per customer, another 100 per head so thats another 50k. Now lets add our wannbe ballers, who buy champagne and Sapphire on their menus bottles avg 500 on the low end. lets say 25 of those wonderful folks they have an avg ticket of 1000 each again keeping on the low end. so another 25k. Then we have normal bottle service runs 400 to 1200 for normal rare bottles from 750 to 6k again according to their promo menus. so lets say yet another 50k in bottles. Now this doesnt count their dayclub pool side which avg 25k per custi to flaunt his status. so we are at 150k per day 365.

this all comes to 54.7 million gross for one club per year. 6 times the amount a brothel makes in the same state with legal protitution I might add.

Oh and btw, Sapphire is listed at avg over 85million per year including the summer pool

Now you tell me what owners are going to choose.

Jalena
07-10-2019, 01:55 PM
No, jack -- NO. Dancers -- real, actual dancers who just dance -- are not prostitutes, no matter how much you and/or certain other members, or men in general, wish they were.

The fact that 'puritanical laws' as you put it treats us like prostitutes does not make us prostitutes. We are grouped together that way because those laws, much like you are doing in this thread, choose to pretend that there is no real difference between dancing and selling sex. There is a big difference between this approach, and actually signing up for/going into work with the intention of selling sexual favours.

'Colour coding' won't do shit. It won't stop the guys who want to talk (or pressure) girls into OTC, and it won't stop the guys who get off on coercing/assaulting girls during private dances. Maybe you haven't experienced the dubious pleasure of finding yourself in a booth with a guy who was a total gentleman until you started undressing; I have, and other girls on this board likely have as well. Women already get groped and assaulted plenty OTC because men choose not to keep their hands to themselves -- you really think this 'colour coding' nonsense is going to keep non-hooking girls safe from predators in a sexually-charged environment?

The issue of sexually assaulting prostitutes is a whole other, and very serious matter, and one more problem that is brought to clubs if you combine a SC with a brothel. That line is blurry enough as it is. Dancers already have an uphill battle getting any sort of legal help when they get assaulted. If you're really interested in keeping both dancers and prostitutes safe, their markets need to be kept separate.

yaya_cash
07-10-2019, 03:21 PM
Well, we're strippers.... we dance, flirt, and tease... that's how we're suppose to entertain...not fuck you. ::) These non-english speaking girls don't get it. At least where I'm at. I wish they'd stop hiring these cheap hoez from Miami who don't speak a lick of English and do everything for 100 bucks. Disgusting.

So if they're not quite adjusted to the culture and strip club, management needs to help them understand once mangement hires them or they might get fired.

yaya_cash
07-10-2019, 03:37 PM
This post is a generalization about Latino guys and it's not quite accurate, no offense. Latino men can be big spenders. I've made plenty from them through the years. And I know many dancers on here can confirm this.

They're talking about poor immigrants, with the recent migrating of Central and South American and Cubans, probably. Many of these immigrants are poor whom are just migranting to the United States. A lot of the wealthy Latinos migrated before the large caravans of Venezuelas, Central Americans and Cubans, because of having the money, connections and proper paperwork to. And you probably couldn't tell if the man paying well is Latino, because he appears white and the darker skinned men identified as Latino.

Jalena
07-10-2019, 03:45 PM
They're talking about poor immigrants, with the recent migrating of Central and South American and Cubans, probably. Many of these immigrants are poor whom are just migranting to the United States. A lot of the wealthy Latinos migrated before the large caravans of Venezuelas, Central Americans and Cubans are, because of having the money, connections and proper paperwork to.


It's not just a matter of poor, relatively recent immigrants. It's a matter of being poorer in general because they are mainly blue collar, and may or may not be legal, and also a matter of demanding more than dances because prostitution is big in their home countries.

Do I write off all Latino men as broke? They have never really taken to me, but no. Some of them can be big spenders. But IME, lack of/refusal to speak English is a big indicator of how willing they are to part with their money. I have seen plenty of guys that were either fluent or even just functional in English, but if they don't want to spend, they jerk you about pretending not to understand. On the flip side, if they want to spend badly enough on a girl, they won't let any language barrier stand in the way.

305gurl
07-11-2019, 05:08 PM
^Your posts tend to always have a certain amount of a doom and gloom tone to them. I get it, I’d probably be the same way too if I had to dance in Miami again. But for your sake, either retirement or moving might be in your best interests. I made $857 yesterday on a dayshift. And it’s far from the only $700+ shift I’ve done before and I’m not the strongest hustler either. Sure maybe in 1995 I could have been wiping my butt with $100 bills, but imo it’s not worth lamenting about *too* much.

It seems clubs are going into extremes? I knew about Austin pushing 1k+ Per hour dancer-set-the-price VIP rooms, but it seems to also be a thing in a couple of Vegas clubs and also in Maine? Is this a growing trend maybe?

My guess is there’s segmenting going on. Either work in volume in an urban like setting (or at least a dance stack lower end place in general), or be in exclusive environments and do an all-or-nothing hustle with (mostly likely new money) rich men is my guess.

Like someone said the regular reliable mid tier clubs seem to be declining, unless one is down with extras.

Perhaps the Midwest areas are, so far, less affected by industry changes? Or at least changing more slowly? (Some insight from someone else would be helpful)

Or at least that’s my guess. I could be wrong.
Late response.

I'm 30 now. I'm past my prime. I already planning to leave the dancing scene in 2-3 years and already saved a lot of cash in the past 3-4 years as I saw the changes within the strip club customers, trends and economics. Plus, my mindset is maturing, that thought in the back of your mind that say "a woman shouldn't doing this," "stripping is bad," or something similar to that, is popping up once in a while.

I like dancing and would love to dance til 45. But it's increasingly getting difficult to make money as I was in my early-20's, and I hear stories from other dancers that I've befriended saying other places is no different, it's hits and misses.

It's not my appearance or my hustle, it's more to do with then-boys-and-young male adults who grew up differently in a different era than their "fathers" that are becoming the growing consumer block.

OmegaWest
07-11-2019, 07:30 PM
Late response.

I'm 30 now. I'm past my prime. I already planning to leave the dancing scene in 2-3 years and already saved a lot of cash in the past 3-4 years as I saw the changes within the strip club customers, trends and economics. Plus, my mindset is maturing, that thought in the back of your mind that say "a woman shouldn't doing this," "stripping is bad," or something similar to that, is popping up once in a while.

I like dancing and would love to dance til 45. But it's increasingly getting difficult to make money as I was in my early-20's, and I hear stories from other dancers that I've befriended saying other places is no different, it's hits and misses.

It's not my appearance or my hustle, it's more to do with then-boys-and-young male adults who grew up differently in a different era than their "fathers" that are becoming the growing consumer block.

I hope you know, that I know hundreds of guys in the 305 that go and spend their money on the 30-35 year old dancer, who has some style, and knows what they are doing, rather than deal with a 20 yr old who cannot be bothered to take her nose off her phone.

I know plenty of dancers, who dance until 40 if not longer, simply because they do not fall into this im past my prime mental block that it seems you are hitting. Maybe a vacation, clear your head, clear the burn that has built up, maybe just go to another club, because yes Miami is a very stressful workplace. A fresh location, could be the jumpstart you may need to make it to 35 with renewed Hustle and drive.

You posted that most customers you see dont worry about the stock market, then you are dealing with the wrong customers. Your market at 30 should be the ones with a nice 401k that has jumped 1500% in the last two years. Dont worry about the kids and their video game stripper mental image. Leave them for the IG gotta have it rain on their ass girls. They can only make it rain with their rent money once before they vanish into the corner sipping their water bottle.

30 for a gymnast is past her prime, 30 for a Dancer of any sort, means she is just hitting second gear.

OmegaWest
07-11-2019, 07:33 PM
They're talking about poor immigrants, with the recent migrating of Central and South American and Cubans, probably. Many of these immigrants are poor whom are just migranting to the United States. A lot of the wealthy Latinos migrated before the large caravans of Venezuelas, Central Americans and Cubans, because of having the money, connections and proper paperwork to. And you probably couldn't tell if the man paying well is Latino, because he appears white and the darker skinned men identified as Latino.

My example of the cheap immigrants, was from 2001 sharing a beer and slapping dollars. It has nothing to do with the year. It has to do with the mentality that the non 1% Central American men have in general towards women. They simply think its amusing, when in reality its pathetic.

305gurl
07-11-2019, 10:22 PM
You posted that most customers you see dont worry about the stock market, then you are dealing with the wrong customers. Your market at 30 should be the ones with a nice 401k that has jumped 1500% in the last two years. Dont worry about the kids and their video game stripper mental image. Leave them for the IG gotta have it rain on their ass girls. They can only make it rain with their rent money once before they vanish into the corner sipping their water bottle.
I can dance for another 10 years if things were like they were before. This job is increasingly becoming associating with social media and I'm not down with that. I'm a conservative dancer whom likes to keep things in the club and no connection with customers outside the club. Already had a regular customer that found my real name through Facebook.

I get what you're saying about aiming towards affluent men but see - that's the problem. They don't come often and their number is dropping in attendance. A man with an excellent career is not going to waste his time and money on strippers when he has capability of finding a woman with ease, high-class or not. Reason why working-class is much needed, low-income and middle-class, due to sheer large number of them. With our current economic problems and changing socio-culture, we're already seeing changes within the strip club environment. It's a completely different world than it was in the late-2000's and early-2010's. I suspect things to get worse when the economy goes into recession next year. From now on, I'll be less Chicken Little on this topic.

OmegaWest
07-11-2019, 11:18 PM
I can dance for another 10 years if things were like they were before. This job is increasingly becoming associating with social media and I'm not down with that. I'm a conservative dancer whom likes to keep things in the club and no connection with customers outside the club. Already had a regular customer that found my real name through Facebook.

I get what you're saying about aiming towards affluent men but see - that's the problem. They don't come often and their number is dropping in attendance. A man with an excellent career is not going to waste his time and money on strippers when he has capability of finding a woman with ease, high-class or not. Reason why working-class is much needed, low-income and middle-class, due to sheer large number of them. With our current economic problems and changing socio-culture, we're already seeing changes within the strip club environment. It's a completely different world than it was in the late-2000's and early-2010's. I suspect things to get worse when the economy goes into recession next year. From now on, I'll be less Chicken Little on this topic.

You truly need a vacation, stop psycho analyzing everything. The constant recession is coming and such, is what is causing your block. You do not have to be the social media girl. Sounds like the main issue is you need a new club so you can have a fresh perspective. If where you are is just cheap millenials, go to another place that doesnt cater to the Media mass zero money people. You have been dancing for ten years, and you never put together regulars to come see you?

I was talking to a girl yesterday who used to work with me, and shes still dancing at 48 (she still looks 30 btw) has her regulars that come in on a schedule, and she doesnt bother with the youngsters as she loves to call them. Its all in how you play the game, and constantly thinking about where people work, what their status is and being hyper critical is the main thing I see wrong.

You are there to entertain, not be their financial planner.

StellaRose
07-12-2019, 07:29 AM
@305

Yeah, I guess I’ve had a different experience with plenty of younger guys up to 35. For one, they are usually less time wasting. Either they will get a dance from you or they won’t. I’ve personally had more than one pleasant experience with them where they will cut me off while talking and be ready to go for dances really quick from sitting down. Middle aged guys don’t do that as much and I have to pitch more aggressively with them. Plenty of exceptions on both sides but I just mean in general.

But of course the older ones may have more money. But the trade off is the older one may also have been around the block and be more picky and erm...demanding with his money too.

(I’m assuming the reason is because they haven’t spent as much time in one club and gotten spoiled from whatever girl xyz did in the past for him. I could be wrong tho.)

I had one ex regular who was 22 years old who had to leave in a couple of weeks. So he came in nearly every day and spent $100-$150 on me. Granted There were frustrations with him but that’s just dealing with regs at any age LOL. But the money was welcome during the worst time of the year to make money in that club.

Another millenial who was like 30 blow through a lot of money on me a few times...before he realized I wasn’t going to budge on going OTC.

I met one guy, I suspect mid 20s who was a weeb (Japanese anime fan who dresses in an eccentric way) give me $600 when he only owed me $300. Which he did cause he wanted to, not cause I asked.

And a couple other random stuff. I’m just saying that I don’t understand this dismissal of millennial customers. And I only say that because I’ve had different personal experiences. They have been an easy source of floor dances for me.

I did face an experience with millennials closer to your opinion at Cheetah Hallandale (yeah I know. I screwed up there trying to give that club a shot and should have focused more on being a tourist for the limited time i was there)

I’m sorry you have had bad experiences. And burn out is a thing and it’s understandable. And it may well be your heart wants you to do something else, which isn’t a bad thing.

rickdugan
07-13-2019, 05:38 AM
Many clubs have closed in NY and CT the past couple of years. Clubs seem to get slower every year. It's just the trend. Just like in the 50's when Burlesque was the thing, it died out too eventually.

That's because affluent people are leaving those states for places like FL and NC. The Florida club scene, OTOH, is benefiting from it.

Selina M
07-13-2019, 03:35 PM
Re: millennials versus older customers... Yes, I think we are seeing less of the older customers and lots of young ones with a different image of clubs (that it's a rap music video).

Everyone on this board knows that young guys are my least favorite thing to see. I despise talking to them, most are empty-headed twats with egos, and I will ignore them until I've tried everyone else.
BUT they are all worth at least a "wanna dance". I agree they are sometimes an easy source of a quick floor dance. You also don't know what they will spend. Some of them have daddy's credit card, just landed a high-paying job out of college, or are just plain bad with money... These guys will buy rooms.

There are plenty of girls who do well without handing out their social media. I don't give out anything but my Google Voice phone number (and that's incredibly rare). Tell them your schedule of work nights. I get a good amount of dudes who come back on those nights looking for me.
I think sometimes the social media thing makes you TOO accessible. There are girls at my club who hand out their Snapchat & IG like candy and it just lets those guys harass them for free OTC.

Blovely
07-14-2019, 12:23 PM
I came across this video today and thought I'd post it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obs0TLr22OI

Bahuba
07-14-2019, 01:13 PM
That's because affluent people are leaving those states for places like FL and NC. The Florida club scene, OTOH, is benefiting from it.

I have a house there now. For so many people moving there the RE is still super cheap. Well, not Palm Beach, but many other places.

Bahuba
07-14-2019, 01:15 PM
I came across this video today and thought I'd post it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obs0TLr22OI

She's hot but I can't do 23 minutes.

TLDR nekkidness is everywhere, strip clubs not as alluring and mysterious and sexy

whirlerz
07-14-2019, 03:38 PM
LOVE HER!

Anyone know what article she's talking about tho?

Blovely
07-14-2019, 03:57 PM
^^https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48667681

whirlerz
07-14-2019, 04:07 PM
Thank you, B lovely, you are awesome! :)

305gurl
07-14-2019, 04:10 PM
The girl in the video pretty much said what I said. We're seeing a generational shift of consumers. Millennials and Gen-X are getting older and are suppose to fill-in for the phasing-out Boomers. But they can't and don't want to.

Vyanka
07-16-2019, 03:16 PM
Girls are to blame too. Doing this wrong. You got chics airing out where they work and how much they make(um, keep that to yourself), makes everyone and thier mom flock to the place thinning money out bc of excess chics and the clueless desperate ones sucking & fucking. Stop fucking the clientele!

Plus movies and music...too much glorification... of course the mystique is gone now bc some ppl can't stfu. Everything is excess now.

Djoser
07-17-2019, 12:22 AM
I gave up on the video, she never seemed to get to the point. :D

Clubs down here maybe aren't quite what they were in 2005 when I first got down here.

However my club set a record for most money made in one night, in the club's history, about 6 months ago. We are kinda different in the Keys than Miami area clubs though.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
07-17-2019, 01:04 AM
I think sometimes the social media thing makes you TOO accessible. There are girls at my club who hand out their Snapchat & IG like candy and it just lets those guys harass them for free OTC.

Those girls may have more than one phone and several different insta and Snapchat accounts. The guys may hit them all day long, but most aren't getting through until she decides to sift through the messages.

OmegaWest
07-17-2019, 01:47 AM
Those girls may have more than one phone and several different insta and Snapchat accounts. The guys may hit them all day long, but most aren't getting through until she decides to sift through the messages.

When the clubs take advantage of the social media and those entertainers who want to use it so much, that is when both sides thrive again. Having branded selfie stations and carpet spots set up in the club for the girls to pose, helps drive that traffic, while at the same time keeps what shouldnt be on camera not on camera.

When entertainers learn that you cannot make money with your head buried in your phone or sitting in the dressing rooms, money goes back up. Customers still go for the experience, but if neither side ever looks up from their phones, how can anything happen productively.

Everyone wants to know what happened, the major thing that I have seen and just now though of it with these last couple posts. Smart Phones happened.

20 years ago, sure you had cell phones, but they were not little computers that had more processing power than the entire room at NASA that put men on the moon like today.

Cell phones were what a normal phone was for, conducting business or being able to contact someone in emergencies, not end all be all communications.

How many people now know that smart phones should be called make us dummy phones. 20 years ago, you probably knew the most important phone numbers in your life. Your family, work best friends etc, and you could dial them without thinking. Now most have trouble recalling their own phone number much less their parents or loved one. Why because now its just a screentap away.

Everyone should try something. Take your selfies or whatever say your at work to those who would come to see you, then lock your phones away. leave the dressing room and actually pay attention to the floor at work. Newbies dont know any better. Experienced Entertainers do.

Now watch when you dont look like your stuck in a glowing screen how much things can change for you during a shift. Oh and not having a constant clock in sight makes shifts move faster too.

jack0177057
07-17-2019, 08:39 AM
if what you saying was true, then please explain why Las Vegas isnt all brothels? Its simple, because That 70000 sq ft club that is Sapphire, makes more money than the brothels just outside of town. As does Rhino and all the other Topless clubs on the strip.

As I said, my argument assumes the law allows a strip club to operate as a brothel. Las Vegas does not. I do not personally know about Sapphire, but, it is not representative of most strip clubs. For one thing, it is located in... Las Vegas! Remember, this thread is mostly discussing strip clubs that are hurting, not, the one club that is prospering and will always continue to prosper as long as Las Vegas is in existence.

305gurl
07-17-2019, 09:56 AM
Las Vegas has change too. Not the strip clubs, the casinos. Vegas has become a recreational(nightclubs and bars) city like Miami(South Beach) as they have to covet to the growing consumer demographic: the millennials. From what I've heard from people reminiscing the old days of Vegas where everything was cheap or free, and complaining how expensive it is go nowadays, I've noticed that many millennials do not gamble like the previous generations which Vegas relied on on the gaming revenue to subsidize a lot of their services and space in order to bring people through the door. But it's not happening with this current consumer generation. Either they're wiser knowing gambling is a waste of money or just the weakening economy.

jack0177057
07-17-2019, 11:16 AM
No, jack -- NO. Dancers -- real, actual dancers who just dance -- are not prostitutes, no matter how much you and/or certain other members, or men in general, wish they were.

I never said actual dancers are prostitutes. I said they are treated as such by the law. Your opinion and my opinion on what defines a 'prostitute' do not really matter much in the practical world, unless, one of us is the governor of a state or the mayor of the city that gets to define 'prostitution' in the laws or regulations.

Also, one thing you have to keep in mind is that you and I are coming at this argument from different moral values. You appear to take offense at the word 'prostitute' and it seems to be a demeaning concept for you, while I have respect for this profession (assuming it is voluntarily chosen without the influence of drugs, coercion or economic pressure). Would I marry a prostitute? Probably not while she was active in the career, but, it would not be a problem for me to marry a former prostitute.

We can probably both agree that, regardless of how you define 'prostitute', most strip clubs have at least one or a few prostitutes, i.e., women exchanging climactic sexual favors (HJ, BF or full sex) for money.


The fact that 'puritanical laws' as you put it treats us like prostitutes does not make us prostitutes.

I never said it did. But, if you are being arrested and charged under prostitution laws, you and I can both scream 'that is not prostitution!' until we are both blue in the face. Our opinion matters little if the law says otherwise.


'Colour coding' won't do shit. It won't stop the guys who want to talk (or pressure) girls into OTC, and it won't stop the guys who get off on coercing/assaulting girls during private dances. Maybe you haven't experienced the dubious pleasure of finding yourself in a booth with a guy who was a total gentleman until you started undressing; I have, and other girls on this board likely have as well. Women already get groped and assaulted plenty OTC because men choose not to keep their hands to themselves -- you really think this 'colour coding' nonsense is going to keep non-hooking girls safe from predators in a sexually-charged environment?

It is terrible that we live in a world with sexual predator monsters and I am sorry that you have suffered through that. Sexual predators are a menace to ALL of society and I hope one day soon we will discover a way to eradicate them from the planet - one simple idea: line them up and shoot them. In my youth, living in NYC, I was sexually accosted twice - once, when I was 12 or 13 (touched in the genitals) and the second was when I was about 14 or 15 (propositioned by middle-aged men for sex and he followed me around after I said no and tried to get away from him). Both experiences were extremely shocking, terrifying, traumatizing and made me feel ashamed, even though I was the victim.

A sexual predator is a menace to ALL of society, not just dancers. They will target any woman (or child) that is vulnerable or that they victimize and get away with.

How can clubs protect their dancers from sexual predators? I can think of a few ways, but, most people will not like all of them:
1) Make clubs members-only, so that custies have to apply for membership and the membership application process will (a) require a criminal background checks, (b) check to see if the person is in a sexual predator database, and (c) contain all the personal information necessary to report the custie to the police if he commits any type of assault in the club.
2) Have cameras everywhere, including the VIP rooms, and outside the club to see the ladies safely getting into their vehicles, and have someone monitoring these cameras all the time.
3) Have bouncers/security in the VIP room and outside to protect the ladies when they get into their vehicles.

While color coding is not a miracle cure that end all sexual assaults in the clubs, it could significantly improve protection for dancers. Like I said, 'clean' dancers will be limited to the dance-only rooms which will be monitored with cameras and secured with a bouncer. The lack of privacy in dance-only rooms is not a big problem, because, there are also redlight rooms (green-bracelet ladies only) for more intimate and private experiences. If a custie wants more privacy, whether for a dance or more, he could select a green-bracelet lady to take into the redlight room. (Bouncer will be posted out-of-view, but, within close distance.)

With gentlemen clubs the way they are today, if a sexual predator pressured and coerced a cocktail waitress to go with him into the VIP room, this would be noticeable, and a bouncer would probably approach them and ask questions. Red-bracelet ladies would be similarly out of place in the red-light zones under my system. They would only be allowed to go with a custie to the dance-only rooms which are monitored and have a bouncer. This is a lot more protection than they currently have.

OmegaWest
07-17-2019, 11:46 AM
Las Vegas has change too. Not the strip clubs, the casinos. Vegas has become a recreational(nightclubs and bars) city like Miami(South Beach) as they have to covet to the growing consumer demographic: the millennials. From what I've heard from people reminiscing the old days of Vegas where everything was cheap or free, and complaining how expensive it is go nowadays, I've noticed that many millennials do not gamble like the previous generations which Vegas relied on on the gaming revenue to subsidize a lot of their services and space in order to bring people through the door. But it's not happening with this current consumer generation. Either they're wiser knowing gambling is a waste of money or just the weakening economy.

so much for no chicken little. 305 you really need a break. The economy is not weakening. Millenials are just cheap with some exceptions obviously. You need a fresh perspective badly. Please get out of your home club, or Miami in general and go see what its like in other counties.