View Full Version : So what exactly happened to the industry since the 90s?
OmegaWest
07-17-2019, 11:55 AM
As I said, my argument assumes the law allows a strip club to operate as a brothel. Las Vegas does not. I do not personally know about Sapphire, but, it is not representative of most strip clubs. For one thing, it is located in... Las Vegas! Remember, this thread is mostly discussing strip clubs that are hurting, not, the one club that is prospering and will always continue to prosper as long as Las Vegas is in existence.
Jack, you have blinders on. Texas doesnt allow clubs to operate as brothels either, and doubtful ever will. Not to mention Brothels being legal still doesnt stop LE from arresting the john. Legal Brothels only protect the women who work in them.
I used nevada as the example because its the one state where Brothels are legal, and the math was available with simple searches. Most upscale Clubs are thriving by the way, Not just Sapphire and the Vegas Top Clubs, unless in Cali of course after that stupid ruling, its only the midtier and lower who have management and owners who are only in it for the fees that are seeing the most issues.
Your argument is moot. Dancers are not Prostitutes. They dont want to be Prostitutes, and most last time i checked Do Not even like being called Sex workers.
They are Entertainers, who provide a fantasy of women that you do not have at home. If you want a happy ending Call an Escort.
yaya_cash
07-17-2019, 12:31 PM
Las Vegas has change too. Not the strip clubs, the casinos. Vegas has become a recreational(nightclubs and bars) city like Miami(South Beach) as they have to covet to the growing consumer demographic: the millennials. From what I've heard from people reminiscing the old days of Vegas where everything was cheap or free, and complaining how expensive it is go nowadays, I've noticed that many millennials do not gamble like the previous generations which Vegas relied on on the gaming revenue to subsidize a lot of their services and space in order to bring people through the door. But it's not happening with this current consumer generation. Either they're wiser knowing gambling is a waste of money or just the weakening economy.
I must that say that a lot of younger guys don't seem to spend in VIPs rooms. They may buy out a VIP section and have drinks, although, I don't see them taking girls to VIP to spend a large amount of bills or on their account.
yaya_cash
07-17-2019, 12:35 PM
Jack, you have blinders on. Texas doesnt allow clubs to operate as brothels either, and doubtful ever will. Not to mention Brothels being legal still doesnt stop LE from arresting the john. Legal Brothels only protect the women who work in them.
I used nevada as the example because its the one state where Brothels are legal, and the math was available with simple searches. Most upscale Clubs are thriving by the way, Not just Sapphire and the Vegas Top Clubs, unless in Cali of course after that stupid ruling, its only the midtier and lower who have management and owners who are only in it for the fees that are seeing the most issues.
Your argument is moot. Dancers are not Prostitutes. They dont want to be Prostitutes, and most last time i checked Do Not even like being called Sex workers.
They are Entertainers, who provide a fantasy of women that you do not have at home. If you want a happy ending Call an Escort.
And Texas is, still, the Wild West, where anything may go. A lot of strip clubs in Texas remind me of saloons of the old days, where these establishments have prostitutes or hoes that have a pimp in there, operating a brothel. And you have customers being so opened about the activity, like it's legal. See: Treasures
Djoser
07-17-2019, 12:51 PM
A lot of strip clubs in Texas remind me of saloons of the old days, where a lot of clubs have actual hoes (with madames/pimps) or prostitutes that flock to.
Ha I've worked in a couple 'Wild West' type clubs in Florida.
One of them, the new bouncers had a 'grace period', of about 4-6 weeks, after which, if they wanted to keep their job, they had to fuck someone up. Like hospital fuck them up. :O
Totaling up, I've had two friends shot and killed out of the clubs, two more shot that should have died if they weren't iron men, one got his throat cut but lived, another got stabbed 12 times and lived (by another guy that used to work the same club!). Not even getting into all the various brawls and minor injuries.
Jalena
07-17-2019, 01:08 PM
I never said actual dancers are prostitutes. I said they are treated as such by the law. Your opinion and my opinion on what defines a 'prostitute' do not really matter much in the practical world, unless, one of us is the governor of a state or the mayor of the city that gets to define 'prostitution' in the laws or regulations.
Also, one thing you have to keep in mind is that you and I are coming at this argument from different moral values. You appear to take offense at the word 'prostitute' and it seems to be a demeaning concept for you, while I have respect for this profession (assuming it is voluntarily chosen without the influence of drugs, coercion or economic pressure). Would I marry a prostitute? Probably not while she was active in the career, but, it would not be a problem for me to marry a former prostitute.
We can probably both agree that, regardless of how you define 'prostitute', most strip clubs have at least one or a few prostitutes, i.e., women exchanging climactic sexual favors (HJ, BF or full sex) for money.
I never said it did. But, if you are being arrested and charged under prostitution laws, you and I can both scream 'that is not prostitution!' until we are both blue in the face. Our opinion matters little if the law says otherwise.
It is terrible that we live in a world with sexual predator monsters and I am sorry that you have suffered through that. Sexual predators are a menace to ALL of society and I hope one day soon we will discover a way to eradicate them from the planet - one simple idea: line them up and shoot them. In my youth, living in NYC, I was sexually accosted twice - once, when I was 12 or 13 (touched in the genitals) and the second was when I was about 14 or 15 (propositioned by middle-aged men for sex and he followed me around after I said no and tried to get away from him). Both experiences were extremely shocking, terrifying, traumatizing and made me feel ashamed, even though I was the victim.
A sexual predator is a menace to ALL of society, not just dancers. They will target any woman (or child) that is vulnerable or that they victimize and get away with.
How can clubs protect their dancers from sexual predators? I can think of a few ways, but, most people will not like all of them:
1) Make clubs members-only, so that custies have to apply for membership and the membership application process will (a) require a criminal background checks, (b) check to see if the person is in a sexual predator database, and (c) contain all the personal information necessary to report the custie to the police if he commits any type of assault in the club.
2) Have cameras everywhere, including the VIP rooms, and outside the club to see the ladies safely getting into their vehicles, and have someone monitoring these cameras all the time.
3) Have bouncers/security in the VIP room and outside to protect the ladies when they get into their vehicles.
While color coding is not a miracle cure that end all sexual assaults in the clubs, it could significantly improve protection for dancers. Like I said, 'clean' dancers will be limited to the dance-only rooms which will be monitored with cameras and secured with a bouncer. The lack of privacy in dance-only rooms is not a big problem, because, there are also redlight rooms (green-bracelet ladies only) for more intimate and private experiences. If a custie wants more privacy, whether for a dance or more, he could select a green-bracelet lady to take into the redlight room. (Bouncer will be posted out-of-view, but, within close distance.)
With gentlemen clubs the way they are today, if a sexual predator pressured and coerced a cocktail waitress to go with him into the VIP room, this would be noticeable, and a bouncer would probably approach them and ask questions. Red-bracelet ladies would be similarly out of place in the red-light zones under my system. They would only be allowed to go with a custie to the dance-only rooms which are monitored and have a bouncer. This is a lot more protection than they currently have.
I do not find the term 'prostitute' nor the job itself demeaning in the least. It's not for me personally, and that's a boundary I adamantly maintain for myself, but I have no problem with prostitution for the most part, provided that all parties are informed and fully consenting adults. What I object to is your continued, deliberate conflation of dancers and prostitutes by lumping them in with each other both legally and physically. That sort of mentality is precisely what fuels the disinterest, and often blatant refusal, to take dancers' concerns seriously regarding their safety and legal liability.
I had hoped you were simply being idealistic in your thought that dancers and prostitutes can coexist in the same establishment, but especially in light of the experiences you've described re: being assaulted yourself, I'm starting to think you're being deliberately obtuse. Honestly I think a system like the one you describe would be positively brilliant, if not for the kinds of people that seek out dancers with the express purpose of fucking with them -- both mentally and sexually. Guys for the most part are fantastic at playing dumb, but most deviants I have met in my years of dancing are anything but. You're a damn fool if you really think a customer who's hell-bent on getting what he wants, from the girl he wants, regardless of whether she's interested in giving it, is going to be put in his place by a colour-coded bracelet system. It's not going to do a thing to 'weed out' or 'separate' the people who, under the current system, are already refusing to take no for an answer.
Your cocktail waitress example is comparing apples to oranges. IME experience, although cocktail waitresses certainly deal with their fair share of customer bullshit -- they tend to be afforded more leeway (for example, being permitted to get paid for half-clothed private dances) AND protection from customers. They are expected to shmooze in order to keep the customer happy and spending, but generally have the benefit of plausible deniability if the customer tries to go too far. They are not expected, and therefore not legally assumed, to be sexual in the same capacity that dancers are. The bouncers can be counted on to have her back. In contrast, I have worked in clubs where the police themselves told me that as a dancer, if I tried to file a complaint against a customer, it would automatically be assumed that I was hooking and I would be the one getting prosecuted. But by all means, keep on about how it's to my benefit as a dancer -- both legally and safety-wise -- to support further blurring the lines between dancing and hooking by sharing my workspace with prostitutes.
lurkingtitties
07-17-2019, 01:54 PM
^^I think she’s more saying that millennials go to Vegas for other reasons than gambling now? Like it’s still a popular destination but the younger crowd is more into concerts and legal weed.
Djoser
07-17-2019, 02:09 PM
In contrast, I have worked in clubs where the police themselves told me that as a dancer, if I tried to file a complaint against a customer, it would automatically be assumed that I was hooking and I would be the one getting prosecuted. But by all means, keep on about how it's to my benefit as a dancer -- both legally and safety-wise -- to support further blurring the lines between dancing and hooking by sharing my workspace with prostitutes.
Cops generally have about the same attitude towards dancers as prostitutes, which is not a good one, sad to say. Not everywhere, but in most places. It's a goddamned shame that law enforcement has such a bad attitude about the adult industry.
Selina M
07-17-2019, 02:18 PM
Those girls may have more than one phone and several different insta and Snapchat accounts. The guys may hit them all day long, but most aren't getting through until she decides to sift through the messages.
Nope, it's their personal accounts, even with their real names :banghead:
They also aren't the brightest bulbs in the box about safety... One of them is the one who either got roofied or did some bad drugs with a customer ITC last month...
Djoser
07-17-2019, 02:26 PM
Nope, it's their personal accounts, even with their real names :banghead:
They also aren't the brightest bulbs in the box about safety... One of them is the one who either got roofied or did some bad drugs with a customer ITC last month...
Yeah I've worked with a lot of dancers who weren't so circumspect. The risk to these women is enormous.
There's a very large gap between stripping and webcam in this, as well as a few other respects. Not that camgirls don't get the stalkers, but in the stripclubs the stalkers are buying lapdances and sitting at the table with the drinks, etc.
yaya_cash
07-17-2019, 06:00 PM
^^I think she’s more saying that millennials go to Vegas for other reasons than gambling now? Like it’s still a popular destination but the younger crowd is more into concerts and legal weed.
Oh, okay-- Maybe they should do a hookah louge too, they already started to move night clubs in the casinos.
OmegaWest
07-18-2019, 04:06 AM
Nope, it's their personal accounts, even with their real names :banghead:
They also aren't the brightest bulbs in the box about safety... One of them is the one who either got roofied or did some bad drugs with a customer ITC last month...
i put this on management and not having systems in place to teach these girls properly
OmegaWest
07-18-2019, 04:11 AM
Oh, okay-- Maybe they should do a hookah louge too, they already started to move night clubs in the casinos.
casinos have had nightclubs in them for a while, your basic normal danceclubs. However I dont see millennials going to vegas for residency shows, considering all but two are from the seventies and eighties, and most concerts tour in every major market. Maybe if they put the legal weed down, they can move out of their parents basement
lurkingtitties
07-18-2019, 05:36 AM
casinos have had nightclubs in them for a while, your basic normal danceclubs. However I dont see millennials going to vegas for residency shows, considering all but two are from the seventies and eighties, and most concerts tour in every major market. Maybe if they put the legal weed down, they can move out of their parents basement
Wow!!! This whole time I thought it was because of debt, inflation, an affordable housing crisis, and stagnant wages...turns out it's just the weed keeping us from obtaining traditional Boomer hallmarks of success! Can you believe it fam? Mind=blown.
OmegaWest
07-18-2019, 01:24 PM
Wow!!! This whole time I thought it was because of debt, inflation, an affordable housing crisis, and stagnant wages...turns out it's just the weed keeping us from obtaining traditional Boomer hallmarks of success! Can you believe it fam? Mind=blown.
debt is brought on by poor planning, thinking an after school job in high school is a career path, thinking the government should hand you everything for free, inflation is way down, plenty of affordable housing unless you want to live in california, which has its own issues, and stagnant wages for jobs being replaced by self serve kiosks do to lack of proper work ethics.
if there is money for legal weed, there is money to pay your bills first and i love how you quote a line from 40 years ago about debt inflation etc
But this has nothing to do with the topic at hand
305gurl
07-18-2019, 03:52 PM
debt is brought on by poor planning, thinking an after school job in high school is a career path, thinking the government should hand you everything for free, inflation is way down, plenty of affordable housing unless you want to live in california, which has its own issues, and stagnant wages for jobs being replaced by self serve kiosks do to lack of proper work ethics.
if there is money for legal weed, there is money to pay your bills first and i love how you quote a line from 40 years ago about debt inflation etc
But this has nothing to do with the topic at hand
Yes it is. Those problems that she mentioned are economic issues that many millennials and so on young people are facing. Not only them but also older working-class Americans.
A lot of debt isn't cause by "poor planning." A lot of them are cause by medical bills, which contributes to the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the U.S., and student loans, compounding that with low-paying jobs that replaced middle-class jobs or manufacturing jobs that were outsourced and hurt many small towns and rural areas.
I once I had this libertarian right-wing view on government and economics in my younger days due to the fact I made more money than the majority of my peers and working-class people. But I read up on politics, history and listen to those are "political-junkies." Now, I know the importance of government and its function to solve economic issues, create balance and safety. But we don't have that in the U.S. due to corruption and manipulating people to go against their interest. Don't want to go to political on this, so it's my only time being political in this forum until it's discuss in the future.
Selina M
07-18-2019, 08:15 PM
i put this on management and not having systems in place to teach these girls properly
Partly because we're ICs, the clubs here don't give two shits what we do once we're on the floor as long as the fee is paid. I do think they should care though, as these girls in particular meet up with some dudes OTC and get him to spend his money there ::)
OmegaWest
07-19-2019, 08:30 AM
Partly because we're ICs, the clubs here don't give two shits what we do once we're on the floor as long as the fee is paid. I do think they should care though, as these girls in particular meet up with some dudes OTC and get him to spend his money there ::)
Exactly right, there should be policies in place, that when girls are found to be promoting OTC, then they are sent OTC and not allowed to return.
Even the mention by another poster about she got fired three times and the third time was for arranging OTC for a cop friend bachelor party, should have had a system in place to have the party come to the club, or be involved if they had already booked another place for it. But that is some of the have to get mine fuck everyone else mentalty as well.
When the Club and the Entertainers work as a team everyone makes money. It also controls the amount of extras and promotes a higher level of Entertainment. The ones who try to be me myself and mine, typically dont last very long, if everyone is working together.
And again, this has nothing to do with the above mentioned entertainers who worry too much about what careers their customers have.
I know clubs that still have the same look as 1990 and try to still act like its 1990 and they are so stuck in that rut, they will forever be that nostalgia, until they eventually close.
I know clubs that have constantly evolved and embraced new tech and overdo and they fall into the same rut and they close. Change and evolution is good, but to much loses your market and your focus.
Whether the entertainers are IC or Employee or Tipped(Commissioned Employee) the club has to have policies in place, in writing, so that everyone is on the same page and can work as a team so everyone makes money. Those are the clubs that thrive no matter the day or time of the year.
yaya_cash
07-19-2019, 11:40 AM
casinos have had nightclubs in them for a while, your basic normal danceclubs. However I dont see millennials going to vegas for residency shows, considering all but two are from the seventies and eighties, and most concerts tour in every major market. Maybe if they put the legal weed down, they can move out of their parents basement
Card ib and some other rapper is supposed to have a contractual residence there. Those casinos are preparing for the generational shift to still be able to make money.
miss.a.p1600
07-20-2019, 07:31 AM
2 words
TINDER and pornhub
OmegaWest
07-22-2019, 10:12 AM
2 words
TINDER and pornhub
maybe for a minority of folks yes these two.
I was up in tampa last night, and stopped into two clubs before coming back home. Both with it being on a Sunday were not swamped, but still were busy and everyone was spending fluidly, the girls seemed pleased because there was about 25 to 30 in each place and all were dancing both on the floor and coming and going from VIP.
The biggest thing i noticed, was the majority of the customers were obviously not in the stupid kid market range of 18-25. Sure one or two younger ones early 20's but most were in their 30's to 40's and a few even older.
Overall a casual night out went well, spent about $500 for the night tipping and drinks, wasnt in the mood for dances, and everyone around me seemed to be having a great time too.
I think there is too much chicken little the sky is falling going around when it is clubs that actually have standards and systems that are doing quite well, even for the summer.
OmegaWest
07-22-2019, 10:14 AM
Card ib and some other rapper is supposed to have a contractual residence there. Those casinos are preparing for the generational shift to still be able to make money.
Oh I did see Cardi B had a one day gig when Kaos opened the pool in April and Drake has 12 shows planned at XS over the next 18 months, but those are not residencies per say, just shows. Maybe in another 20 years they will get year long residencies , but I dont see it now personally.
majordon
07-27-2019, 10:34 PM
A couple Mondays ago, when the club was slow early, I bumped into a very nice dancer whom I know a little bit. I remarked that I hadn't seen her there in a while. She said no, she hadn't worked lately. I asked her if she had another job - because I am always curious, with all I hear about demographic changes, slow seasons, rip-off clubs, etc - how do some girls get along fine without stacking shifts ? She told me a story that I found very illuminating.
She had been out visiting some rural towns, to find some small houses she could buy and have fixed up to be rentals. Just like her Mom had taught her back when she was a baby dancer. She told me she was now well beyond the point of having to work X number of shifts (or a vanilla job on the side) to make ends meet. She only comes in now when she's feeling it, because she loves to dance and to meet people. Why shouldn't she - it's what she's good at.
This thread has been a very broad cross-fire on how the US strip club industry has adapted ( or not ! ) to a new generation coming on the scene, with a different economic backdrop and attitude toward sexually oriented entertainment. But on an individual level, a dancing career is still what you make it, much as it was for a previous generation.
Blovely
07-28-2019, 03:20 AM
A couple Mondays ago, when the club was slow early, I bumped into a very nice dancer whom I know a little bit. I remarked that I hadn't seen her there in a while. She said no, she hadn't worked lately. I asked her if she had another job - because I am always curious, with all I hear about demographic changes, slow seasons, rip-off clubs, etc - how do some girls get along fine without stacking shifts ? She told me a story that I found very illuminating.
She had been out visiting some rural towns, to find some small houses she could buy and have fixed up to be rentals. Just like her Mom had taught her back when she was a baby dancer. She told me she was now well beyond the point of having to work X number of shifts (or a vanilla job on the side) to make ends meet. She only comes in now when she's feeling it, because she loves to dance and to meet people. Why shouldn't she - it's what she's good at.
This thread has been a very broad cross-fire on how the US strip club industry has adapted ( or not ! ) to a new generation coming on the scene, with a different economic backdrop and attitude toward sexually oriented entertainment. But on an individual level, a dancing career is still what you make it, much as it was for a previous generation.
Very inspiring. She is goals. I hope to achieve the bold with the help/money from the combination of vanilla work and adult/sex work.
honestabe
07-31-2019, 10:16 AM
I see lots of different opinions here, but few which speak of the real most likely cause of the decline. The "urban strip club" model is ubiquitous model. While it is now the most popular choice among dancers, it isn't as popular or as much of a draw among potential customers. That's a shame too, because the economy and disposable income have never been better than it has for the last eight years. Add to that the fact that weight standards have become relaxed, and there has been an increase in assaults and shootings as clubs became more dominated with rap and hip-hop. Twenty years ago pat-downs and metal detectors were rare for strip clubs. Now it is practically a necessity (particularly on weekend nights). That is not a good look for strip clubs.
The industry will survive. Right now it's about where it was in the 1970s before the "hair bands" of the 80's revived strip clubs. The future is fewer, and fewer strip clubs with relatively older veteran dancers earning more than their younger, less fit counterparts.
lurkingtitties
07-31-2019, 12:27 PM
debt is brought on by poor planning, thinking an after school job in high school is a career path, thinking the government should hand you everything for free, inflation is way down, plenty of affordable housing unless you want to live in california, which has its own issues, and stagnant wages for jobs being replaced by self serve kiosks do to lack of proper work ethics.
if there is money for legal weed, there is money to pay your bills first and i love how you quote a line from 40 years ago about debt inflation etc
But this has nothing to do with the topic at hand
I wasn’t quoting anything from 40 years ago; I myself am under 40 and have no idea what you’re referencing. Debt is a big problem for many people these days for many reasons. Housing has indeed become problematically expensive in many areas of the country and LOfuckingL at the notion that self serve kiosks have anything to do with employees becoming lazier. Your original snarky comment about millennials in their parents basement had nothing to do with the topic at hand and you come off like a stereotypical angry old white Boomer with an F you I got mine mentality.
Sorry for getting political fam I’ll step out of this thread now
SnuffleUffleGrass
08-02-2019, 06:45 AM
I see lots of different opinions here, but few which speak of the real most likely cause of the decline. The "urban strip club" model is ubiquitous model. While it is now the most popular choice among dancers, it isn't as popular or as much of a draw among potential customers. That's a shame too, because the economy and disposable income have never been better than it has for the last eight years. Add to that the fact that weight standards have become relaxed, and there has been an increase in assaults and shootings as clubs became more dominated with rap and hip-hop. Twenty years ago pat-downs and metal detectors were rare for strip clubs. Now it is practically a necessity (particularly on weekend nights). That is not a good look for strip clubs.
The industry will survive. Right now it's about where it was in the 1970s before the "hair bands" of the 80's revived strip clubs. The future is fewer, and fewer strip clubs with relatively older veteran dancers earning more than their younger, less fit counterparts.
This is right on.
When I entered the adult industry a lot of people I dealt with were holdovers from the "black market" past of strip bars. Over the past 3 decades, strip bars became (like all other businesses) more corporatized and more streamlined.
In the bar business people cannot afford to have delusions about the economy, society or how to deal with City Hall.
At the end of it all, the fight with City Hall is what makes or breaks a LOT of adult oriented businesses.....
jasmine22
12-11-2019, 10:37 PM
ok I ll bite....a fresh perspective from someone who has lived and worked in Vegas this past year. Including Sapphire. I’ve heard girls in the dressing room saying things like “my goal is $200 per night” and “damn I’ve been here since 4 pm (now 2 am) I’ve only made $40”. Oh and don’t get me started on the “dollar dances” they do on Monday night football(yes there are girls giving lap dances in Las Vegas for a dollar). Because nothing screams high class clientele like dollar dances. Ive made good money there and there was more earning potential in general but it was not easy.
The club owners and management are the ones to blame for all of this in any state....bc there is no longer a standard. They went from hiring less girls that looked good to hiring anyone that is willing to pay the fee. No wonder the young guys aren’t coming in....because that girl in their 9 am economics class who just rolled out of bed looks better than half the girls in the club. And the older men are disappointed or tired of it. I remember when I first started and the Housemom would look you over before you started to make sure you looked good. And to the men on this thread....isn’t this what you really want to see? Sexy beautiful women who care about their looks?
And the extras in the club....that has always been a problem but again that’s easily prevented with better management watching over things. Trust me they know what’s going on and do not care bc they profit from it directly from certain girls. They don’t care about the longevity of the business...it’s all about making money today.
I also think older men are content watching porn at home...because in their day it was expensive and harder to get. Older men can also afford hotel rooms and escorts, and these are also easier to get with the internet. Also word gets around about the clubs through message boards.
Music. When all these female rappers are singing about hustling men, making money, how they can fuck a man and leave....this is a masculine way of thinking. It’s not feminine or seductive. Men want to see women as mysterious and a prize...this is part of the allure.
In Vegas I see girls thirsty waiting by the entrance. I never did that shit I just went about my business with a positive attitude and had fun with it. And that was how I made money...not by sitting at the door looking desperate or begging for dances(again....what man wants to come back to the club after he gets hounded by desperate women all night?) or thinks that’s sexy? It’s annoying to them.
Millennial men in the USA....honestly not that masculine(I won’t speak for other countries only the one I live in lol I’m not bashing Americans btw!) They have less testosterone than previous generations this is a fact. They are usually immature and They have student loan debt. Young bachelor parties are awkward and it’s usually only one guy who wants to be there. The young guys I see coming into the club now treat it as a nightclub...it’s bizarre.
ZeroSugarMonster
12-12-2019, 03:19 PM
Well, I'm OLD AF, and not exactly a super model, so when you say the hiring standards have been lowered, I feel a little insecure and inclined to take a stab at this question.
P-O-R-N. For free. Online and everywhere.
Also, no offense, to the lovely and/or decent men out there, when I've traveled the most disgusting, flagrantly misogynistic, I-will-rape-bc-I-know-in-the-US-its-prettymuchlegal men, I've encountered are all from the US. Why in the hell would a dude come into a strip club to innocently worship a pretty lady before him, swaying, maybe caressing his ear a bit here and there, teasing, flirting for a S-T-E-E-P sum, when as a man in the US, you are pretty much entitled to any and all that you want without consequence?
I realize that stripping and prostitution are totally different. However, if you want to know the level of entitlement we have here in the US, just reference the Obama cabinet scandal where Obama's staff felt ENTITLED to stiff the prostitutes they hired, while they were in Colombia: I mean, we paid that B*h $20, what else could she possibly expect. We make a bunch of money, most of our expenses our tax deductible, but what does that sorry broad w/no other options in life want?"
Totally abhorrent.
You know, that sort of classist and misogynistic mentality.
Not to poo-poo on all the wonderful men who make our rent, but I feel like overall, it's the entitlement representative of our culture, leeching into our business. That's my take.
Oh, and the porn, for free. Make it not free, or illegal. Get rid of the dating sites, where guys get a buffet of girls for nothing, even if they have a wife and five kids at home. Also, the Seeking-For-A-Cheap-Hooker sites and all the copycat sites like his, need to go-go. This Asian athwhole who created the initial site from which all the copycat sites sprung, needs to be in jail for pimping bc essentially, what he is doing is culturally-sanctioned pimping in a country where women's rights have a ways to go.
Maybe the changes suggested will bring the guys back into the club.
305gurl
01-06-2020, 06:50 AM
I said it before. What you see is the consequences of long-term effects of neoliberal economic policies that dominated our country that the current younger generations inherited from the previous generation's voting preference during the last 40 years.
Meaning stagnating wages that are not in line with the current inflation rate. Rising cost-of-living. Outsourcing decent paying jobs and automation. Combining that with easy access to adult content and women online.
We might say "let's cater only for high quality, high dollar clientele." But the reality is those men aren't going to waste time on strippers. As our industry is usually supported by middle-class and low-income individuals as they clearly outnumbered higher class.
kratz
01-06-2020, 08:21 AM
Hey guys,
Just wanted to leave my two cents. I'm originally from Latin America and have European friends. It seems that Americans are both prudish and very paranoid about sex and sex work. For instance, I've been to stripclubs in South America where the girl dances but she also offers extra services outside the club. The girls are independent contracts are are free to choose if they are interested in doing any extra service. Sometimes a client will negotiate during the dance with a girl and then they agree to meet outside the club for a fee. They are all adults and are free to do whatever they want. If a girl wants to only be a dancer then she is free to do so. I doubt that the clients will force her to give him her number.
kratz
01-06-2020, 08:27 AM
Moreover, I do agree that millennial men are the most effeminate I've ever met in my life. Most of them are playing video games, watching Marvel movies, hiking or going to concerts. For their sexual needs they watch porn. That's why they think sex is a big deal. Most of them are on tinder trying to get laid with lackluster results. I do agree that the "boys will be boys" culture of going out with your buddies to hookers or going to the stripbclub has been killed off at least in the USA.
Bahuba
01-06-2020, 03:44 PM
Moreover, I do agree that millennial men are the most effeminate I've ever met in my life. Most of them are playing video games, watching Marvel movies, hiking or going to concerts.
I do 3 of those things, Gen X, and I've never had anyone with a brain call me effeminate. Hiking? Going to concerts? How TF is that effeminate?
Emanuelle
03-10-2020, 08:05 PM
I've danced for about 10 years. Not since the 90s, but I have seen a big shift in the clubs. I think first and foremost is that when I started dancing was when companies were just starting to really crack down on employees for using their expense accounts for strip clubs. Girls were constantly moaning about how their best customers couldn't give them $10,000 tips or diamond necklaces for Christmas anymore because now they were spending their own money.
When I started dancing the private rooms cost $500 per hour and the club didn't take any of it, they just required the customer to also buy a bottle of wine or champagne for $500+, and that's where they earned their money. I sold rooms all night long because $500 isn't a lot of money to get an hour of uninterrupted time with a woman who is really entertaining a man well. They also didn't push that a new bottle had to be ordered every hour on the hour, just whenever you ran out.
Now the private rooms where I work are $1300-2500 per hour, and the dancer gets $480 of that, then she has to tip the host 10-20%, and the club takes another cut when we cash in what's left. That doesn't leave a lot left for us so we have to pressure the customer to tip well on top of the thousands he's already spending.
The bottle sales are another massive hustle. Most bottles are around $1500, but we have a "cheap" one for only $750, and there is a lot of pressure on us to sell a new bottle every hour. A lot of the customers, especially long term customers, get angry. They usually take it out on the dancer by refusing to tip, saying they bought the bottle instead. They are obviously feeling taken advantage of, because they are, and I think if a guy is going to spend that much money for an hour with a girl he can get a really nice escort and a really nice hotel room and not feel any of that hustle.
Out on the floor the $1 bill culture is rampant. There are buckets of $1 bills everywhere. Instead of buying $20 dances guys just like to throw dollars on the floor and then the dancers have to pick them up. It's gross and we earn less. It's hip hop culture. Young guys think of strip clubs as a place to hang out. All night long I see a lot of tables of guys who don't buy any dances all night. They just buy bottles and hang out trying to date the dancers.
There's no exclusivity. There's no glamour. There are very few gown clubs left. The girls are now allowed to dress cheap, look cheap, and act cheap. When I started dancing I felt like I had to look perfect all the time because the house moms wouldn't let us on the floor with chipped nail polish. Now I see a lot of girls without their hair done, and no makeup. There's even a group of girls at my club who can't speak a word of English. They're beautiful, but the customers can't communicate with them, and I think that's a big part of what the guys are looking for even if they don't want to admit it.
Then of course there's the surge in the "underground" or "private" strip clubs, where guys get to spend time with "innocent college babes who aren't real strippers", who are actually just strippers who didn't do well at the big clubs, or didn't get hired. These girls will do a LOT for a little bit of money because they don't know any better. They're just out making drinking money, and networking, because their parents are paying their bills and they're used to hooking up with anyone they match on Tinder. Sex is easy, allure and seduction is exciting but it's a skill.
I mean it is what it is and a lot of us are still making good money by figuring things out on a day by day basis. I still really enjoy stripping. I still enjoy the good customers who behave like gentlemen, and the girls are almost always sweethearts. The clubs need to be profitable, so they push their prices every 6 months and I don't think they'll stop doing that until they hit a wall. However, in my opinion these are some of the reasons the customers of old, who didn't mind spending maybe $1,000-2000 in a night to be fawned over by glamorous dolled up women who looked like goddesses, without the high pressure sales tactics, may not feel it's worth it anymore.
Adelina
03-10-2020, 09:04 PM
Thank you, Emanuelle for the excellent post. I feel the prices that clubs charge customers for the rooms are too high and the relatively low cuts the girls are paid for selling rooms force some dancers into doing things for money they would not normally do if their time was compensated more adequately. Be it things that some girls do in the room or meeting customers OTC. That, in turn, makes it more difficult for clean dancers to make a living.
Girls who look and act cheap attract cheap clientele which turns off the classy high income customers. The SC loses it's exclusivity and becomes a hang out nightclub, just as you have described.
honestabe
07-30-2020, 11:28 AM
Well our club (I'm a guy with a non-management role) went bust. The owner kept some of the girls on a stipend hoping the pandemic would wind down by now. Our club and our chief competitor are both setting. A former customer of ours wants to owner to sell the club, pretty much transfer the licenses to him, and reopen the club as a '90s oriented strip club- complete with renaming the club after a famous 90's hit.
Unfortunately for me the potential new owner does not require my specific services, so I'll still be without a job. Personally I don't think it will work. I've observed other clubs try the ol' classic rock approach and it simply never sells. Still I'm wondering if any of dancers here might have some suggestions to help the club succeed.
Selina M
07-30-2020, 06:59 PM
Unfortunately for me the potential new owner does not require my specific services, so I'll still be without a job. Personally I don't think it will work. I've observed other clubs try the ol' classic rock approach and it simply never sells. Still I'm wondering if any of dancers here might have some suggestions to help the club succeed.
A club here tried that, they only played rock music and did it up in a biker type of theme. I think they were trying for an 80s Motley Crue sort of vibe. It didn't make a difference as far as I can tell, nobody ever recommends girls to work there and customers say it's always dead. It's in an area of town that has the nipple paint regulation, which doesn't help.
I think the basic problem now is the clubs are too greedy and both the customers and the girls feel like they're getting hosed. Doesn't make for a fun experience or workplace.
If I ran a club: for starters, appearance standards. It sounds harsh, but this industry is 90% based on looks and I blame lax standards for a lot of why we get guys who whine about prices. If the girls look like ones they can pick up at a dive bar for a couple vodka cranberries, why would they pay for dances?
I would keep X number of girls on the regular roster with another X 'trial' slots. The highest selling girls are retained, the lower selling girls get replaced by someone new on the 'trial' roster who did better than them. I fuckin' hate getting too few stage rotations, crowded dressing rooms, and customers literally talked out of spending money by girls who don't have any hustle. Make it easier for the top girls to make money - they're happy, the club profits, everybody wins.
Mandatory tip-outs need to go. It's less the amount of money and more the feeling of it that irks most of us if that makes sense. We resent feeling like every (male) employee has their hand out to us, often for doing fuck-all. I'd rather pay an extra $5 on my house fee and then the club can pay each bouncer a set hourly. Same net outcome for the club if math is done correctly, less salty feelings from the girls.
Make sure your math adds up on rooms so it's worth it for us to sell them. I've worked in multiple clubs where the math between the VIP room & the by-the-dance VIP area does not work. Why am I going to sell a room & give the club 15%+ when I can work the same amount of time in the regular area and keep that 15%+?
Keep the riff raff out. Kick out groups that are obnoxiously drunk and not spending. Boot the weirdo who doesn't spend money and just creeps on us. Dress code to some degree. The saggy ass pants shit and Sweatpants Boner Man have got to go. You want to attract clients with money, you gotta make it somewhere they wouldn't be horrified to be seen. Campaign slogan - Bring Back The True Gentlemen's Clubs
Is that enough ranty advice yet? :P
FrankieSkyPrivate
03-07-2022, 05:28 AM
the internet changed the sex industry in all ways. Strippers became cam models. Today women don't share the earnings with a club, but with a website. They prefer to avoid physical contact with men, and the internet allows them to work from the comfort of their home, and they can log in/out whenever they want, no schedules, no boss.
pixiepower329
03-13-2022, 09:24 AM
I have to admit-- as someone who has worked all segments of the industry-- from dancing to webcam to illegal escorting to the brothel system in Nevada-- I'm very put off by the sheer number of fellow adult industry entertainers who want to make camming illegal or porn illegal or brothels illegal.
When I dance-- I dance clean. A strip club is NOT a brothel, period. The fact that some ladies don't seem to get this does not mean that all ladies in other segments of the industry deserve to be castigated.
Selina M
03-14-2022, 10:40 AM
When I dance-- I dance clean. A strip club is NOT a brothel, period. The fact that some ladies don't seem to get this does not mean that all ladies in other segments of the industry deserve to be castigated.
Agreed. And then I get called 'whorephobic' for saying it's not a brothel :banghead:
I am NOT whorephobic. I choose to be in a tamer area of the industry but I am completely pro-escorts, massage parlors, etc.
I just have a problem with them doing it IN the club. It's cheating the clean girls out of money, it's teaching the customers to expect more for less, and it puts the whole club at risk for a raid (especially when dumbass customers post on USASexGuide, TUSCL, I even found our extras girl mentioned on Yelp ffs).
StellaRose
03-14-2022, 02:00 PM
I just have a problem with them doing it IN the club. It's cheating the clean girls out of money, it's teaching the customers to expect more for less, and it puts the whole club at risk for a raid (especially when dumbass customers post on USASexGuide, TUSCL, I even found our extras girl mentioned on Yelp ffs).
I have to admit I get a kick out of reading online reviews lately of the beloved Hi-liter, and the endless complaining about travel dancers who come in to “ROB” and that the local girls they liked aren’t there anymore. (And don’t look in the mirror wondering what drove the liked dancers away)
Granted, I don’t blame other dancers when stuff happens. I blame managements in clubs all over for being too lazy to keep dances standardized to a certain contact levels, ESPECIALLY when they are taking cuts out of sales. One thing I love about my home club is that cameras always get monitored AND there are no dance cuts. It’s not a perfect club but I get the impression that type of thing is rare so I appreciate it a lot.
pixiepower329
03-14-2022, 03:05 PM
Not only that-- but as someone who works as an escort-- strippers giving extras for a 20 dollar tip cheapens the rates that ladies outside the club get offered. It pulls both sides of the ship down.
Selina M
03-14-2022, 03:26 PM
I have to admit I get a kick out of reading online reviews lately of the beloved Hi-liter, and the endless complaining about travel dancers who come in to “ROB” and that the local girls they liked aren’t there anymore. (And don’t look in the mirror wondering what drove the liked dancers away)
Granted, I don’t blame other dancers when stuff happens. I blame managements in clubs all over for being too lazy to keep dances standardized to a certain contact levels, ESPECIALLY when they are taking cuts out of sales. One thing I love about my home club is that cameras always get monitored AND there are no dance cuts. It’s not a perfect club but I get the impression that type of thing is rare so I appreciate it a lot.
Oh my God, they all lose their mind every time Hi-Liter tightens its rules up. I refuse to work in any club that's within a 5 mile radius of Hi-Liter because those same dudes flock to those as well. The problem with HL is partly that the owners/managers get 10% of all your earnings, so they are incentivized to let girls do dirty shit... until the city cracks down.
My home club has good & bad managers as far as keeping that stuff down. The extras girls unfortunately start hiding it better when the stricter managers are working. They have cameras but its pretty easy for the girl to cover up things like giving handjobs.
FrankieSkyPrivate
04-08-2022, 02:50 AM
I was just talking about the twerk culture and mumble rap that has taken over all clubs in Vegas. Can't go to a single club without hearing it anymore and it is unbearable. I love mumble rap and appreciate twerking too....but the lack of stage performance, pole work and floor work is disheartening. For me, when I was a dancer it was very important for me to hone my craft. I suppose it is just not all that important to younger dancers, because all of them are twerking so it makes it easy for all of them not to learn pole work. I see better pole work on youtube than I do at CH3. I would love to hear pantera's walk in a club just once nowadays.
I was also talking about "millenial gut" in the same post. As I have re-entered clubs the past few years both as a cocktail server and go to clubs with my friends, I was kind of taken back by the quality of younger dancers. I am in my mid 30's and have a body that blows most early/mid 20 somethings away.
It would be nice if clubs and dancers would choose music that suits a wide audience like they used to. But lets face it, there are truly not many rock bands that rock anymore either lol. I feel old.
I toally agree with you, pole work is like "art", its a pitty twerking has taken over all the attention, don't get me wrong, I like twerking too, but its monotonic and it always look the same no matter who does it
yaya_cash
06-12-2022, 10:38 AM
ok I ll bite....a fresh perspective from someone who has lived and worked in Vegas this past year. Including Sapphire. I’ve heard girls in the dressing room saying things like “my goal is $200 per night” and “damn I’ve been here since 4 pm (now 2 am) I’ve only made $40”. Oh and don’t get me started on the “dollar dances” they do on Monday night football(yes there are girls giving lap dances in Las Vegas for a dollar). Because nothing screams high class clientele like dollar dances. Ive made good money there and there was more earning potential in general but it was not easy.
The club owners and management are the ones to blame for all of this in any state....bc there is no longer a standard. They went from hiring less girls that looked good to hiring anyone that is willing to pay the fee. No wonder the young guys aren’t coming in....because that girl in their 9 am economics class who just rolled out of bed looks better than half the girls in the club. And the older men are disappointed or tired of it. I remember when I first started and the Housemom would look you over before you started to make sure you looked good. And to the men on this thread....isn’t this what you really want to see? Sexy beautiful women who care about their looks?
And the extras in the club....that has always been a problem but again that’s easily prevented with better management watching over things. Trust me they know what’s going on and do not care bc they profit from it directly from certain girls. They don’t care about the longevity of the business...it’s all about making money today.
I also think older men are content watching porn at home...because in their day it was expensive and harder to get. Older men can also afford hotel rooms and escorts, and these are also easier to get with the internet. Also word gets around about the clubs through message boards.
Music. When all these female rappers are singing about hustling men, making money, how they can fuck a man and leave....this is a masculine way of thinking. It’s not feminine or seductive. Men want to see women as mysterious and a prize...this is part of the allure.
In Vegas I see girls thirsty waiting by the entrance. I never did that shit I just went about my business with a positive attitude and had fun with it. And that was how I made money...not by sitting at the door looking desperate or begging for dances(again....what man wants to come back to the club after he gets hounded by desperate women all night?) or thinks that’s sexy? It’s annoying to them.
Millennial men in the USA....honestly not that masculine(I won’t speak for other countries only the one I live in lol I’m not bashing Americans btw!) They have less testosterone than previous generations this is a fact. They are usually immature and They have student loan debt. Young bachelor parties are awkward and it’s usually only one guy who wants to be there. The young guys I see coming into the club now treat it as a nightclub...it’s bizarre.
I'm sorry, I have seen guys take advantage of the least attractive entertainer by desiring more for their buck. It's a ridiculous game when you are a guy that has the money to spend and can get more money.
Metal Vanity
08-31-2022, 04:18 PM
It's a combination of a lot of things. Women these days are far more entitled and the work ethic keeps dropping. Women who are driven can make a living online now very easily, and many have become entrepreneurs with the ease of the internet. As well, women see others online throwing thousands of dollars around all the time whether it's real or not, glorifying stripping when in reality- it's simply not for everyone. Women can be competitive, clicky, and willing to do less for more in big cities in clubs that may work hundreds of girls each night regardless of how many customers walk through the door. Many girls also don't know what they're doing and don't know how to or are scared to make money as a stripper. They can also get sucked into this pack mentality, and often spend more than they make to make themselves feel better, because the money will always be there. The art of entertaining has turned into something else, and it's sometimes hard to find a good dancer. This is just my opinion on the dancers side. 🙂 More goes into it, of course, but coming from a stripper, the way a woman takes care of her finances is solely her responsibility.
neverendingkneebruises
10-03-2022, 07:08 AM
These comments about dancers not putting in effort is alarming & y'all entitlement or poverty/bootstrap mindset is showing. LOL please. The work ethic hasn't dropped, there's always been dancers that were lazier than others and still did just fine. Even when I was a terrible hustler, shy, and hadn't updated my looks to be conventionally attractive, and started in 2017, I could still walk away with $300-500 nightly in most clubs. Nowadays you have to be a hardcore VIP hustler for this to even be worth it fulltime, and it's more & more hit/miss. Thing is, regardless of what you charge or how much effort you put in, this should not be difficult work (financially I mean), and that goes for stripping, camming, or literally any other type of sexualized work. The idea we have to do more & more to justify making a living when we are taking our clothes off is laughable.
Yes, you should be able to make more money for putting in more effort, but regardless the money should still be there. Men are the ones who have become more & more entitled. We already take our clothes off and up close & personally deal with men that constantly push our boundaries, that should be the worst of it. This trend of the cheapening of SW and womens sexuality in general is alarming, I really think it will turn around, but I'll be out of the industry by then cuz I refuse to deal with it while I'm young. People say the clubs are flooded and maybe on weekend nights that's true but in my area every club begs on their fb page that they need girls in at least several nights a week, then I come in & still deal with shitty cheap entitled customers, so what's the deal then? If you are semi-attractive, and there's bodies in the club, the concept that you have to worry about money at ALL, even being a little financially irresponsible, is ridiculous. Men come to the club and straight up refuse to buy dances or VIP, or tip. Literally their game plan is to come in, sit, & get as much entertainment for free as they can. These past 6 months have been the worst of it all and it's affecting everyone.
To further make my point, I'm a decent pole & lap dancer, great conversationalist & entertainer, & always put top notch effort into my looks while also being naturally beautiful. Don't believe me? PM me and I'll send you some selfies. On top of that my hustle is pretty much perfected and it's very easy to tell that 99% customers never not want to do dances/VIP with me, they're just broke/entitled & don't wanna pay up. Before Covid (and even for a few months after we reopened) $1k a night in the right club was no issue for me, whether that was by selling VIP rooms, stage money, or stacking dances (so that is me catering to all demographics, not just the men that can afford to blow $1k on a dancer). And I still get plenty of men complaining about my perfectly reasonable prices or whining about having to dare tip me. Men complain about how there's not many "hot women" in the clubs anymore (or ones that really put effort into their appearance) no shit, it takes time and MONEY to maintain my appearance and I DIY most of it, eventually the "hot women" got tired of their value being cheapened & go somewhere their looks & talent will be appreciated- which is what I'm doing now. Or, they stop putting any effort in which is what I see a lot of too- what's the point of putting in extra effort without the pay that should come with it? Why would I spend the prime of my youth/sex appeal catering to entitled cheap fucks when I can work somewhere else that will value my effort & skills much better in the only way that matters ($$$$$)? Now I only dance part time when I feel like it. I left for another job where I can make more than the strip club nowadays, which is pretty pathetic. I really think clubs should enforce a mandatory tipping/dance policy somehow but, in the meantime if customers want to see better effort & hotter women like the 90s when they go to the strip clubs, y'all should pay for it before the rest of us wise up & leave ::)
DeathAndTaxes
10-12-2022, 01:19 PM
People say the clubs are flooded and maybe on weekend nights that's true but in my area every club begs on their fb page that they need girls in at least several nights a week, then I come in & still deal with shitty cheap entitled customers, so what's the deal then?
Well yeah the house fee. It always blows my mind that you have to pay to get in while I don't.
neverendingkneebruises
10-12-2022, 05:50 PM
Well yeah the house fee. It always blows my mind that you have to pay to get in while I don't.
The house fee at my club is pretty reasonable. I just think a lot of girls prefer to go in later or on weekend nights where they think the $ is.
It does suck that customers often pay less to get in than we do to work- but I'd rather pay $30 and be able to have the rights that an independent contractor would get, so long as the club is actually following those rules. I mean in my opinion cover for customers should be $30-50 anyways ::)
DeathAndTaxes
10-12-2022, 06:02 PM
The house fee at my club is pretty reasonable. I just think a lot of girls prefer to go in later or on weekend nights where they think the $ is.
It does suck that customers often pay less to get in than we do to work- but I'd rather pay $30 and be able to have the rights that an independent contractor would get, so long as the club is actually following those rules. I mean in my opinion cover for customers should be $30-50 anyways ::)
Yeah its generally that but locals get in for free :D