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slowpoke
03-20-2019, 09:37 AM
Another story says"
"he charges are second-degree misdemeanors and generally carry no more than a 60-day sentence in county jail, according to Edmondson."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-will-not-accept-a-plea-deal-offered-in-the-florida-day-spa-case-a-source-says/ar-BBV0z91?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

whirlerz
03-20-2019, 10:00 AM
This dumb ass pulls up to the hood “spa” in a Bentley?!?

He either wanted to get caught or is just really dumb

2 different Bentleys!
He got bj tho::)

miss.a.p1600
03-20-2019, 10:39 AM
^^^well I think part of the reason these people got caught was cause the neighboring businesses noticed a lot of things out of the “ordinary”

A lot of males going in and out
Males frequenting the business after hours
And now mid/high end luxury vehicles pulling up in an lower class part of town.

Basically I’m trying to say is if a person wants to do illicit activities discreetly they are going to blend in to the scenery. Not stick out like a sore thumb. Dude may as well pulled up to the track in a Wraith

Not only that it’s still a slap in the face (economic disparities based on how those ladies were allegedly living in poverty) when dude is getting cheap rub n tugs but he splurges on transportation to get him there and the Madam is waltzing around in her luxury car hobnobbing with the likes of the morally defunct politicians

CFMNH44
03-20-2019, 10:39 AM
IF there was any trafficking that is just despicable, but as time goes on it seems that term was only used in the initial police press conference. No further mention or news that it was not all consenting adults.

https://reason.com/blog/2019/02/28/homeland-security-spied-on-chinese-women

The woman servicing Kraft was 58 years old. In addition to the payment at the front desk he is seen on camera tipping a '100 plus another bill'. His second visit was 14 minutes.

Now normally if you got stopped by police on your way home from a spa, and had to produce ID, most wouldn't go back the next day... Guess he thought they would't notice him if his driver used the Blue Bentley instead of the White one from the day before?!

I've read the indictments, followed most of the reports, nowhere is there a rational discussion. The Boston Globe comments are led by "rape culture" researchers that claim there can be no consent for any sex work, that it is rape, and most followers are white knights that agree. Deeper in the sand all the heads go.

miss.a.p1600
03-20-2019, 10:46 AM
https://cbs12.com/news/local/spa-02-19-2019

This article says they women allegedly slept in the spa, had no days off, had a high daily client roster, had no transportation and the madam was taking extremely high cuts thus further keeping them in poverty while her trifling ass rolled around in the laps of luxury

You are supposed to tip extra for extras!

How much of that $100 do you think the madam took?

And why couldn’t he just get some sex from some escorts within his class-level? Why did he have to troll the hood looking for sexual pleasure?

whirlerz
03-20-2019, 11:24 AM
Cause he's cheap!

rickdugan
03-20-2019, 11:25 AM
Miss, that cbs article is old and mostly inaccurate. Much more up-to-date news has come out since, including the article CFMN posted above. Conditions were not nearly as bad as initially reported and not only have they not identified any trafficked victims, but they are keeping the girls in jail on prostitution charges. Shit, in another story I read, law enforcement also seized the Bank of America account that belonged to the 58 year old who serviced Kraft and it had quite a lot of money in it.

The longer this goes on, the more ridiculous it looks for Homeland Security and the various other LE agencies involved. This was part of a multi-county sting operation in Florida and not a single charge of trafficking or coercion has been filed against anybody. Indeed, a number of so-called "victims" from 10 different spas are sitting in jail sells alongside the supposed traffickers. Also, contrary to early reports, almost all of these girls had valid massage licenses, yet many of them are getting the screws put to them with felony charges because they derived support from each other.

When this is all said and done, this is going to be a massive multi-agency resource expenditure for nothing more than a bit of morality policing. Worse though, there are going to be a lot of questions about how those warrants were obtained. By the time this all shakes out, I suspect that a lot of LE agencies and news outlets are going to have egg on their faces.

If Kraft was smart, he'd either hold out for trial or put the screws to them to sweeten the deal more because I strongly suspect that they do not want this to go to trial. If Kraft succeeded in getting those warrants tossed, then they could end up losing everything, including the felony charges on the so-called "victims."

whirlerz
03-20-2019, 11:30 AM
In my area, (& I'm sure other areas) those spas are everywhere!
Sometimes, ya just want a Popeye's & not a surf n' turf!

whirlerz
03-20-2019, 11:34 AM
Why don't they seize Rob's $$$ ?

slowpoke
03-20-2019, 11:34 AM
He will probably hire several talented attorneys and probably succeed in having the charges quashed.

whirlerz
03-20-2019, 11:37 AM
Well yeah he's got the dream team, but it's on camera, so he has to at least pay a FINE!

slowpoke
03-20-2019, 12:15 PM
He might get the search warrant quashed and the video excluded.

miss.a.p1600
03-20-2019, 12:22 PM
Cause he's cheap!

I know it’s mentioned previously about the cheap factor but where does one cross the line between cheap and exploitative?

......And when being “cheap” costs $$$$$

The cost of cheap nut plus expensive power attorneys if caught = 75k+
The cost of a high class escort = 1-2k

So he’s not really saving money (so I personally don’t think money per say is a factor here), but he is taking high risk, he doesn’t care about his reputation, he thinks he is invisible/invincible, and probably has a sex addiction

I think this dude has dementia or something affecting his mental faculties and he should be court ordered into therapy.

Whoever watched him bust one on live probably needs therapy too.

miss.a.p1600
03-20-2019, 12:49 PM
He will probably hire several talented attorneys and probably succeed in having the charges quashed.

So the charges against him will be quashed but the prostitution charges against those women will be maintained?

I don’t understand how he is able to plead not guilty when there is proof he paid for sexual acts and proof he received said acts.

whirlerz
03-20-2019, 12:58 PM
Some thoughts:

Being cheap can co$t!
As far as the pimp(ettes) getting busted/fined/etc, low hanging fruit's easier to pick.
It's not called 'oldest profession' for nothing..
The crooks I mean cities, make $$$ off them.
Every once in a while they bust them/shake them down

slowpoke
03-20-2019, 01:07 PM
So the charges against him will be quashed but the prostitution charges against those women will be maintained?

I don’t understand how he is able to plead not guilty when there is proof he paid for sexual acts and proof he received said acts.


Everyone pleads not guilty. It is our constitutional right. The state must prove its criminal charges. That means it must have admissible evidence. If the defendant can show how the warrants were somehow defective, everything obtained as a result of the warrant can be excluded as Fruit of the Poisonous Tree.

Bahuba
03-20-2019, 01:48 PM
So the people on this site are once again smarter than I am - looks like he'll skate. The police work and federal agency work must have cost over 1m$ and the result? Lock up a 58 year old woman and take her money.

slowpoke
03-20-2019, 01:56 PM
We don't know yet, but it will be interesting to watch, and embarrassing to police if their search is excluded.

rickdugan
03-20-2019, 02:39 PM
Well, the news is in that Kraft has rejected the plea deal. Not only that, but reports say that no other defendant has accepted it either.

In the meantime, Kraft's lawyers collaborated with the lawyers for 14 other defendants to file a joint motion today to suppress the video evidence. You can bet that Kraft's attorneys were in the driver's seat on this one since many of those other defendants are blue collar workers with limited resources to pay for things like reviewing warrant affidavits, hiring video analysis experts, consulting third party LE procedural experts and all of the other stuff that that Kraft's attorneys are no doubt doing at great expense. If he is successful, they may all walk, including the girls.

So if one must get caught up in a legal trap, getting scooped up in the same one that catches a billionaire isn't necessarily the worst thing after all. ;)

slowpoke
03-20-2019, 03:24 PM
At minimum the other defendants lawyers would be expected to get copies of everything Krafts' lawyers filed, and filing their own copies. Apparently everyone decided to board the gravy train.

yaya_cash
03-20-2019, 05:33 PM
I know it’s mentioned previously about the cheap factor but where does one cross the line between cheap and exploitative?

......And when being “cheap” costs $$$$$

The cost of cheap nut plus expensive power attorneys if caught = 75k+
The cost of a high class escort = 1-2k

So he’s not really saving money (so I personally don’t think money per say is a factor here), but he is taking high risk, he doesn’t care about his reputation, he thinks he is invisible/invincible, and probably has a sex addiction

I think this dude has dementia or something affecting his mental faculties and he should be court ordered into therapy.

Whoever watched him bust one on live probably needs therapy too.

It's a thrill. And this won't effect his affect his reputation much. Many like him and they didn't get caught.

miss.a.p1600
03-20-2019, 07:02 PM
We don't know yet, but it will be interesting to watch, and embarrassing to police if their search is excluded.

I don’t understand. Why would police waste so much time and money to conduct a search that is illegal/ineffective. I mean I know the rogue ones do illegal shit/and sometimes they make mistakes but don’t they have to get clearance from say the department heads or experts?

From what I understand, they used a delayed notice search warrant which is not frequently used. I would think this strategy would require some sort of team consultation or something beforehand to ensure it’s implemented in a legal way so that evidence can be upheld in court.

miss.a.p1600
03-20-2019, 07:06 PM
It's a thrill. And this won't effect his affect his reputation much. Many like him and they didn't get caught.


I forgot about the reputation thing. Since he is a billionaire, money can delete his perversions.

miss.a.p1600
03-20-2019, 07:11 PM
Everyone pleads not guilty. It is our constitutional right. The state must prove its criminal charges. That means it must have admissible evidence. If the defendant can show how the warrants were somehow defective, everything obtained as a result of the warrant can be excluded as Fruit of the Poisonous Tree.

This all makes sense. Except the first sentence....aren’t there scenarios where people would plead guilty though?

eagle2
03-20-2019, 11:21 PM
So the charges against him will be quashed but the prostitution charges against those women will be maintained?

I don’t understand how he is able to plead not guilty when there is proof he paid for sexual acts and proof he received said acts.

I'm not sure, but I don't think any of the women working in the spa will be charged. I think they're being treated as victims of human trafficking.

kamiliam
03-20-2019, 11:24 PM
I'm not sure, but I don't think any of the women working in the spa will be charged. I think they're being treated as victims of human trafficking.

They aren't, they have been arrested for prostitution. I think one fled if I remember correctly. There have been zero human trafficking charges.

slowpoke
03-21-2019, 06:00 AM
This all makes sense. Except the first sentence....aren’t there scenarios where people would plead guilty though?

"Everyone" may be a little bit of an overstatement, but not much. The procedure is usually to plead not guilty at the outset. You go through your motions to quash, your discovery and see what the weaknesses of the case might be. Then the prosecution might make an offer and the defendant might take it. As a general rule defendant does not roll over and play dead the instant he is charged, especially a defendant who can afford a good lawyer.

Point being you go through discovery and motions to suppress before you enter a guilty plea.

Th is not exacrly on point, but as an example, Houston police recently conducted a "drug raid" killed two people and got a lot of police shot. The investigation is showing the alleged drug dealers had pot in quantities indicating personal use, and no coal tar heroin, as alleged in the warrant, to be found. AND, now the supposed informant can not be found either. The search warrant was probably based on a lie, and at least one officer has been charged.

slowpoke
03-21-2019, 06:03 AM
They aren't, they have been arrested for prostitution. I think one fled if I remember correctly. There have been zero human trafficking charges.


My theory is most "human trafficking" is a ploy to enhance budgets. If you can find a victim, it makes it easier to persuade whoever sets your budget to give you more money to save the victim. So the city council gives the police more money to "combat human trafficking", in effecting becoming a governmental Captain Save A Ho

miss.a.p1600
03-21-2019, 06:20 AM
So is the human trafficking a way to enhance budgets but also is it harder to prove trafficking since the women are adults and challenging to prove they were coerced (coreced with physical objects of violence like guns, shackles vs emotional coercion like manipulation)? Since adults should be capable of making decisions on their own free will?

Or maybe as some posters have mentioned the ladies had their massage licenses indicating they had ability to work legally but chose to venture into the illicit side of the business?

slowpoke
03-21-2019, 06:29 AM
I think the police are probably chagrined this billionaire got caught in their trap. This is probably way more publicity than they wanted. They probably thought they could arrest some people getting cheap blow jobs, who would plead guilty because it is easier and cheaper than defending the case, and at the end of the year include the numbers with the other arrests, convictions and hoes saved.

Marina Starr
03-21-2019, 06:32 AM
It's not about money because clearly money is not an issue with him or other wealthy men. They could visit the Bunny Ranch where it's safe and legal but that's not what they want. They want the wrongness, taboo thrill because that's what gets them off/high.

SnuffleUffleGrass
03-21-2019, 07:12 AM
I think the police are probably chagrined this billionaire got caught in their trap. This is probably way more publicity than they wanted. They probably thought they could arrest some people getting cheap blow jobs, who would plead guilty because it is easier and cheaper than defending the case, and at the end of the year include the numbers with the other arrests, convictions and hoes saved.

I've known lots of cops and ex cops in my lifetime. They think it's hilarious (IMO) & probably akin to rolling up to a sting and finding the Easter bunny having sex with teen prostitute. Unbelievable, but it happened. Honestly after the rise of the Internet and 9/11 our definitions of what is possible in life have changed a lot (in the Westernized world.)

eagle2
03-21-2019, 09:05 AM
They aren't, they have been arrested for prostitution. I think one fled if I remember correctly. There have been zero human trafficking charges.

It looks like there was one person charged with human trafficking and multiple people were charged with racketeering, including prostitution-related crimes. This article has a list of everyone charged with crimes related to the Asian spas.

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/2019/03/19/catch-up-florida-spas-raided-prostitution-sting-tied-sex-trafficking/3173374002/

Bahuba
03-21-2019, 10:12 AM
So there were 12 workers arrested and 250 customers arrested, including Kraft and a former CEO of citibank (!!)

Arrested is different from charged but the articles say "most" have been charged

kamiliam
03-21-2019, 11:59 AM
It looks like there was one person charged with human trafficking and multiple people were charged with racketeering, including prostitution-related crimes. This article has a list of everyone charged with crimes related to the Asian spas.

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/2019/03/19/catch-up-florida-spas-raided-prostitution-sting-tied-sex-trafficking/3173374002/

That must be a new development I stand corrected. Although I see the are using RICO as the basis, which basically just means she was making money off of an illegal operation.

CFMNH44
03-21-2019, 09:42 PM
The thing that really annoys me is that the Department of Homeland Security was created after 9/11, and we all thought it was to prevent another attack on our country by terrorists. Please tell me how any of these raids threaten US security?!

PS: their budget: 40.6 billion USD (2017)

CFMNH44
03-21-2019, 10:04 PM
Another odd thing - The above link showing the mug shots - Everyone was given a black cape / drape covering from the neck down. Reminded me of the drape used in 1060's yearbook photos that all the women wore... Everyone except pic 105 - the former cop. For him they found a pic wearing his badge.

CFMNH44
03-22-2019, 06:31 AM
Absolute insanity. USA needs to legalize prostitution already. This is ridiculous.

I've been watching the comments section of the Boston Globe, there are a couple 'former trafficking victims' that are relentlessly citing studies that say "There can be no consent for paid sex work", that "no one would do it given the choice", "it is part of 'rape culture'", ... and... "That legalizing causes more trafficking because there would not be enough women to work to satisfy the demand".

I happen to think many, many women would be happy to work for $200 per hour, on their own schedule, giving massages with happy endings. (I happen to know a few, independents, not working in a studio, so setting their own rules and boundaries.) Many have moved on with other business ventures, happy to have left before this SESTA / FOSTA environment.

(Again I do not know the specific situation of the FL spas and what cut the actual women doing the work got, but the enemies to legalizing paint the whole industry with a broad brush, assuming all SW must be coerced, therefore not allowing an honest conversation.)

slowpoke
03-22-2019, 06:47 AM
The Boston Globe commentators are there to read from the party line script, and we see how "mission creep" and "human trafficking" are expanding jurisdiction and budgets. There is nothing unique about this - it is the way bureaucracy works.

miss.a.p1600
03-22-2019, 07:24 AM
I've been watching the comments section of the Boston Globe, there are a couple 'former trafficking victims' that are relentlessly citing studies that say "There can be no consent for paid sex work", that "no one would do it given the choice", "it is part of 'rape culture'", ... and... "That legalizing causes more trafficking because there would not be enough women to work to satisfy the demand".

I happen to think many, many women would be happy to work for $200 per hour, on their own schedule, giving massages with happy endings. (I happen to know a few, independents, not working in a studio, so setting their own rules and boundaries.) Many have moved on with other business ventures, happy to have left before this SESTA / FOSTA environment.

(Again I do not know the specific situation of the FL spas and what cut the actual women doing the work got, but the enemies to legalizing paint the whole industry with a broad brush, assuming all SW must be coerced, therefore not allowing an honest conversation.)

This may actually be an interesting topic for a separate thread.

I’m actually on the fence about the whole thing

The first thing that came to my mind that links these events to trafficking (or at the least exploitation) is the pimp/madam role of the owners.

whirlerz
03-22-2019, 07:24 AM
So there were 12 workers arrested and 250 customers arrested, including Kraft and a former CEO of citibank (!!)

Arrested is different from charged but the articles say "most" have been charged

How come we're not hearing about the Citibank guy, or am I missing something?

miss.a.p1600
03-22-2019, 07:40 AM
I am going to guess the news headlines of a billionaire in a Bentley trolling for sex in the hood is more salacious then some retired banking dude

slowpoke
03-22-2019, 07:47 AM
The first thing that came to my mind that links these events to trafficking (or at the least exploitation) is the pimp/madam role of the owners.

Sole practitioners and their lower volume would be less noticeable. When business volume increases people begin to notice. People violate ordinances and/or deed restrictions running businesses from their homes because they don't have employees, customers and deliveries coming and going.

CFMNH44
03-22-2019, 09:44 AM
There's the whole sports angle, to New England Fans, it's the sports world conjuring up another 'gate' - VideoGate, deflateGate, now SpaGate. Perfect trifecta actually - the first ensnarled the coach, the QB in the second one, now the owner. I have to assume most of the PD and prosecutors favor the local Miami team, so are getting a good chuckle, let alone getting to watch their 'evidence videos'.

whirlerz
03-23-2019, 07:06 PM
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26340599/kraft-releases-statement-says-truly-sorry

miss.a.p1600
03-23-2019, 07:26 PM
.....truly sorry ......that he got caught

He would have kept trolling hood spas otherwise.

He should donate some money to a women’s charity if he really respects women

whirlerz
03-23-2019, 07:28 PM
.....truly sorry ......that he got caught

He would have kept trolling hood spas otherwise.

He should donate some money to a women’s charity if he really respects women

Yep! Lol, sorry he got caught..
His lawyer fed him "Say you're sorry.."

yaya_cash
03-23-2019, 09:47 PM
I've been watching the comments section of the Boston Globe, there are a couple 'former trafficking victims' that are relentlessly citing studies that say "There can be no consent for paid sex work", that "no one would do it given the choice", "it is part of 'rape culture'", ... and... "That legalizing causes more trafficking because there would not be enough women to work to satisfy the demand".

I happen to think many, many women would be happy to work for $200 per hour, on their own schedule, giving massages with happy endings. (I happen to know a few, independents, not working in a studio, so setting their own rules and boundaries.) Many have moved on with other business ventures, happy to have left before this SESTA / FOSTA environment.

(Again I do not know the specific situation of the FL spas and what cut the actual women doing the work got, but the enemies to legalizing paint the whole industry with a broad brush, assuming all SW must be coerced, therefore not allowing an honest conversation.)

In spa it may be 200 per 30 mins or 15 mins. And I think they make about a thousand a night.

miss.a.p1600
03-23-2019, 10:11 PM
I don’t know why but I have a hard time believing they make the full $200 per hour cause they have to payout a certain amount in fees and business expenses and are clients really coming in every hour / half hour?

whirlerz
03-24-2019, 08:48 AM
Nah, that seems like for individual providers.
They are paying some kind of house fee, + they always figure out how to tack on extra payouts.