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slowpoke
04-22-2019, 11:13 AM
Any more news on the pre-trial proceedings?

rickdugan
04-22-2019, 11:19 AM
Any more news on the pre-trial proceedings?

I don't think that we are going to see anything else until the next court date, which is one week from today on April 29th. This is a big one because it is the hearing on the constitutionality of the video evidence.

miss.a.p1600
04-22-2019, 11:32 AM
I haven’t seen anything news worthy lately but I did come across an article that outlines the various facts and themes of this case (the alleged human trafficking, government surveillance, past FL massage parlor busts etc)

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-cb-massage-parlors-cameras-past-cases-20190419-story.html

miss.a.p1600
04-22-2019, 12:31 PM
Yes this happens more than you might think.

It's really too bad the amount of intrusion Americans allow in their lives when it comes to politicians on "moral missions." Damned waste of taxpayer dollars....

This could actually be an interesting topic in and of itself.

Me personally if I were going to sell or procure sex, FL is one of the last places I’d do it. Their public record laws (IF caught), I believe the northern part of it is considered part of the Bible Belt (so there will be no shortage of people against it/thinking it’s immoral), numerous spas had been raided in the past.

With respect to wasting resources, in my opinion, the war on pr*stitution is looking a lot like the war on drugs (the ones that are now legal like liquor and marijuana in many states)

rickdugan
04-22-2019, 12:39 PM
I haven’t seen anything news worthy lately but I did come across an article that outlines the various facts and themes of this case (the alleged human trafficking, government surveillance, past FL massage parlor busts etc)

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-ne-cb-massage-parlors-cameras-past-cases-20190419-story.html

Thanks for providing this. It's interesting that several attorneys from the old FL massage parlor cases wanted to fight the "sneak and peak" surveillance the way Kraft is, but their clients were too scared. Prosecutors always offered the same deal, with no criminal record if they did xyz. Understandably, the guys involved jumped on it. No doubt most didn't have the resources to mount a legal challenge and the ones that could were scared of the publicity.

Except for one guy, who took a stand on principle and filed a legal challenge. Prosecutors responded by dropping all charges against the one guy who fought back. Very telling. I strongly suspect that they always knew they were on shaky legal ground and were counting on a sweet plea deal to keep them out of a court fight.

But then they had the misfortune of catching Kraft in their net. Worse though, the Jupiter police were stupid enough to brag about it publicly, taking away the one real reason Kraft might have had to avoid a fight. Oops. ;)

rickdugan
04-22-2019, 01:14 PM
^Well, part of the question is whether they had any real basis to believe that there was sex trafficking in the first place. They only mentioned it once in the affidavit for the sneak and peak warrant and it was in passing. Also, look where they placed the cameras - not in places where employees interacted or slept, but instead at the cash register and in the massage rooms. It's pretty clear that prostitution was the real target.

The legality issue has been covered previously re: the discussion of "reasonable expectation of privacy" (which they had) in connection with our constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure. The police don't have the right to conduct invasive searches to catch every crime, no matter how minor, and sneak and peak warrants were never intended for this nickel and dime stuff. This may ultimately go the the Supreme Court - we shall see.

slowpoke
04-22-2019, 02:22 PM
Except for one guy, who took a stand on principle and filed a legal challenge. Prosecutors responded by dropping all charges against the one guy who fought back. Very telling. I strongly suspect that they always knew they were on shaky legal ground and were counting on a sweet plea deal to keep them out of a court fight.

https://youtu.be/7hx4gdlfamo

slowpoke
04-22-2019, 02:30 PM
I don't think that we are going to see anything else until the next court date, which is one week from today on April 29th. This is a big one because it is the hearing on the constitutionality of the video evidence.

That is probably what I was really asking

miss.a.p1600
04-23-2019, 06:25 AM
Yes this happens more than you might think.

It's really too bad the amount of intrusion Americans allow in their lives when it comes to politicians on "moral missions." Damned waste of taxpayer dollars....

Also will be interesting to see how the nfl reacts considering they have their “moral” / personal conduct especially for leadership such as owners and manager....

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1102477-nfl-personal-conduct-policy.html

miss.a.p1600
04-23-2019, 09:12 AM
.... I'd like to see the prostitute he was with, I bet she is beastly.

Well jack if you must know what she looks like here is her mugshot.

I guess “beauty” is in the “eye” of the beholder......

http://m.tmz.com/#!2019/04/23/robert-kraft-spa-masseuse-arrested-charged-with-prostitution/

According to the article they just arrested her - based off the surveillance video

I’m actually more curious to see what these prosecutors, lawyers and judges look like .... with their clothes on though....unless they look like Greek gods n strippers

miss.a.p1600
04-26-2019, 04:17 PM
Im surprised he didn't throw out the "do you know who I am?" line to get out of all that.

"Robert Kraft showed off his New England Patriots Super Bowl ring to a police officer minutes after leaving a massage parlor where he had just paid for sex with two female workers, prosecutors allege in a court filing.

And just a day after that discussion with the officer — whom Kraft had asked if he was a Miami Dolphins fan — the Pats owner returned to the spa for another sex-for-pay session with one of the women, prosecutors claim.".......

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/26/robert-kraft-told-police-he-was-patriots-owner-after-spa-visit.html

miss.a.p1600
04-26-2019, 04:26 PM
Prosecutor calls kraft's attorney 'asshole' in court

https://www.tmz.com/2019/04/26/robert-kraft-prostitution-court-hearing-prosecutor-asshole-alex-spiro/

slowpoke
04-26-2019, 06:33 PM
Apparently she is worried.

miss.a.p1600
04-26-2019, 09:15 PM
I'll bet the tensions are high in that place

Plus he was kind of rude signaling for her to sit down like she's a dog or something

Im glad TMZ got some video footage inside the courtroom I was interested to see what these people look like, the body language, and what exactly is being said

SnuffleUffleGrass
04-27-2019, 05:02 AM
He apparently flashed his Superbowl ring at arrest. Fabulous!

slowpoke
04-27-2019, 06:16 AM
Plus he was kind of rude signaling for her to sit down like she's a dog or something



It is a courtroom, not a tea party and they are adversaries.

JDD
04-29-2019, 05:48 PM
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190429/early-bird-special-at-jupiter-massage-parlor-is-florida-cultural-milestone

SnuffleUffleGrass
04-30-2019, 05:38 AM
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190429/early-bird-special-at-jupiter-massage-parlor-is-florida-cultural-milestone

LOL......any waiter or waitress can attest to the popularity of early bird specials and good word of mouth. In this case we discovered billionaires like getting in on deals too!

(Similar to the revelation that Tiger Woods ate at Perkins AND would cruise waitress tooshie there too. Rich men are mortal too.)

rickdugan
04-30-2019, 06:40 AM
Apparently she is worried.

That was my take as well. By other reports I've read, it didn't go too well for the lead detective that day.

whirlerz
04-30-2019, 07:06 AM
[QUOTE=miss.a.p1600;3112906]Prosecutor calls kraft's attorney 'asshole' in court

Most of 'em are, if they're any good..

miss.a.p1600
04-30-2019, 07:13 AM
True the people with narcissistic tendencies tend to go into career fields like law and politics

From my experience though what I’ve seen the lawyers are generally cordial with the opposing attorney

Even the high priced ones are cordial with the public defenders

They all network with each other

But I really think the high stakes for either side to lose and the publicity of this case (put cameras on anyone and suddenly they act “differently”) is what is causing some of this.

CFMNH44
04-30-2019, 09:24 AM
He apparently flashed his Superbowl ring at arrest. Fabulous!

I think it was at a 'routine traffic stop' that the PD did to verify occupants of the car. I would have been spooked if I was a passenger in the car and had to provide ID. Yet he went back to the spa the next day...

whirlerz
04-30-2019, 09:54 AM
They do that, I've been stopped & me/ my passenger had to show ID, lol he had dui ticket too..
This cop bitched @ us for a 1/2 hr, he was looking to make a dui/drug bust, he had dogs..which he told me about, a couple times::)
He let us go tho, eventually.

Maybe he/they were being watched?

miss.a.p1600
04-30-2019, 10:54 AM
I think it was at a 'routine traffic stop' that the PD did to verify occupants of the car. I would have been spooked if I was a passenger in the car and had to provide ID. Yet he went back to the spa the next day...

This is exactly what I was thinking.....

Like why would anyone in their right mind keep going back to the same place, obviously under surveillance, over and over again?

whirlerz
04-30-2019, 11:00 AM
Well, he's prob used to doing wh/ev he wants, Ms P!
Flash my big rig, & shine 'em on

miss.a.p1600
04-30-2019, 07:19 PM
Health official details Jupiter day-spa inspection that led to surveillance cameras

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190430/health-official-details-jupiter-day-spa-inspection-that-led-to-surveillance-cameras

On a side note: ol girl brought the frosted lipstick from the 80's back in style

An interesting excerpt:

Jupiter Police Detective Andrew Sharp said he knew the spa was “illegitimate” when he saw eight men get off a golf cart last year, watched one of the men go inside and then come back and do a “Touchdown Jesus” celebration with his arms raised to the sky. Then, he said, the man went back inside.

On Friday, Sharp told attorneys there were five cameras installed in the spa between the lobby and in the private massage rooms.


“This was not a run-of-the-mill prostitution business,” Sharp said. “It was a criminal enterprise.”

Sharp took the stand again on Tuesday, facing about an hour of questioning from the state. He described the initial phases of the investigation, which included investigators collecting discarded trash from the day spa and questioning men who were leaving the spa. Asked why he felt surveillance cameras were necessary, Sharp said he needed evidence that the business was profiting from illicit activities.

“I needed to determine that the money that these women were getting was dirty money,” he said.

Authorities initially said the case involved an international human-trafficking operation, but no human-trafficking charges have been filed.

slowpoke
05-01-2019, 11:42 AM
I wonder how much the defendants have to pay for the class, and how much kickbacks are paid.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190414/shamed-schooled-shocked-day-in-palm-beach-countys-class-for-johns

SnuffleUffleGrass
05-01-2019, 04:55 PM
I wonder how much the defendants have to pay for the class, and how much kickbacks are paid.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190414/shamed-schooled-shocked-day-in-palm-beach-countys-class-for-johns

Ugh that article made me want to hurl...


Yeah let's get rid of responsibly conducted sex work. STIs, runaways and addiction will magically disappear because ….oh wait, no that won't happen.

These token moves by LE just serve to make angry housewives and religious nuts feel better about themselves. O America with your seedy underbelly and oblivious Average Joes and Janes....

miss.a.p1600
05-01-2019, 08:04 PM
I wonder how much the defendants have to pay for the class, and how much kickbacks are paid.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190414/shamed-schooled-shocked-day-in-palm-beach-countys-class-for-johns


Just my guess but probably on par with with people pay when they get busted for dui

Probably a couple grand at least

But definitely more than what they offered to pay for the p*ssy

If the government can’t fuck you on the front end, they’ll fuck you on the back end ..... unlubed

SnuffleUffleGrass
05-02-2019, 07:40 AM
Just my guess but probably on par with with people pay when they get busted for dui

Probably a couple grand at least

But definitely more than what they offered to pay for the p*ssy

If the government can’t fuck you on the front end, they’ll fuck you on the back end ..... unlubed

From what I have been told, across the US the cost for expunging a solicitation charge is around $2K (that does NOT include lawyer's fees, filing fees, and possible additional charges as negotiated by the DA's office.)

(Note- Commonwealth states might differ in this regard. I'm familiar with laws in Western US states.)

NO matter what people tell you, the US is a "pay to play" culture. Depending on who you are, your get "out of jail" cards either cost time, money or large chunks of your lifetime. Depends on what is going on.

miss.a.p1600
05-02-2019, 03:50 PM
Y’all be getting fully naked or nah?

https://nypost.com/2019/05/01/detectives-in-robert-kraft-case-used-boxer-short-rule-with-spa-surveillance/amp/

whirlerz
05-02-2019, 04:24 PM
Ms P, you just KILL me, girl!:rotfl:
So, that mean we're going to be seeing 'the goods'?:yikes:

slowpoke
05-02-2019, 04:49 PM
“Sharp testified the hidden cameras never stopped rolling during the five-day surveillance — but that the view was changed if the patrons were female or more skittish about baring all.”

Now there are female customers. Interesting none were charged.

miss.a.p1600
05-02-2019, 09:28 PM
Ms P, you just KILL me, girl!:rotfl:
So, that mean we're going to be seeing 'the goods'?:yikes:

Lol!

I’m trying to think back to my past massages and trying to remember did I get all the way naked?

I always wondered like how would either party know if they wanted to do a happy ending but without flat out asking. I guess to be clear - just gotta ask

miss.a.p1600
05-02-2019, 09:34 PM
“Sharp testified the hidden cameras never stopped rolling during the five-day surveillance — but that the view was changed if the patrons were female or more skittish about baring all.”

Now there are female customers. Interesting none were charged.


Maybe cause they got naked but didn’t have their pussy n breasts fondled

Or they just assumed women don’t get happy ending massages especially from another woman.

But I suppose if it were a chance that women were engaging in the same acts as male clients at the Orchid spa then they should be face the same consequences according to FL law although I am thinking that Happy ending massages really should just be legal

JDD
05-03-2019, 02:36 PM
Lol!

I’m trying to think back to my past massages and trying to remember did I get all the way naked?

I always wondered like how would either party know if they wanted to do a happy ending but without flat out asking. I guess to be clear - just gotta ask

In fairness to the dudes who got naked......I go to Vegas about 10 times a year for business...get a nice massage every tip at Aria or Bellagio Spa...always naked, no other way to get a massage to me, proabky very common.

slowpoke
05-03-2019, 04:14 PM
Maybe cause they got naked but didn’t have their pussy n breasts fondled

Or they just assumed women don’t get happy ending massages especially from another woman.

But I suppose if it were a chance that women were engaging in the same acts as male clients at the Orchid spa then they should be face the same consequences according to FL law although I am thinking that Happy ending massages really should just be legal

Could they have been there for a legitimate massage?

whirlerz
05-03-2019, 04:58 PM
Well, IF they're licensed massage therapists, (which these types of places aren't, usually) then any method is legit depending on client's preferences..
Usually it would be nude, but some people have issues, or they may not feel comfortable totally disrobing, so they may leave on undergarments

But usually, they're called body rubs, since they can also be busted also for non-licensed personnel giving massages, aside from the sex part.

So, it's kind of a word salad.

slowpoke
05-03-2019, 06:28 PM
I figured they are not legitimate massage businesses, and wonder why that alone does not shut them down. Usually they need licenses

whirlerz
05-03-2019, 07:03 PM
Right^

Bc, they make lot$ of $$$, people get paid: c*p$, etc.
:)

miss.a.p1600
05-07-2019, 11:35 PM
It is a courtroom, not a tea party and they are adversaries.

A ratchet tea party!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/05/07/robert-kraft-prosecutors-allege-misconduct-sex-spa/1133427001/

https://nypost.com/2019/05/08/prosecutors-accuse-robert-krafts-lawyers-of-lying-in-court/

slowpoke
05-08-2019, 07:34 AM
Desperation

whirlerz
05-08-2019, 08:07 AM
A ratchet tea party!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/05/07/robert-kraft-prosecutors-allege-misconduct-sex-spa/1133427001/

https://nypost.com/2019/05/08/prosecutors-accuse-robert-krafts-lawyers-of-lying-in-court/

Sigh.

I love Ms P!

"He issued a public apology, but plead not guilty"??
& attorneys sanctioned that??

& the other thing, w/the prosecutor, they sound like little kids!

miss.a.p1600
05-08-2019, 08:13 AM
Sigh.

I love Ms P!

"He issued a public apology, but plead not guilty"??
& attorneys sanctioned that??

& the other thing, w/the prosecutor, they sound like little kids!

aww love you too hon!

I would rather give my left tit than to have to be a lawyer involved in this case. Just seems like it would get old real fast.

slowpoke
05-08-2019, 08:26 AM
I would rather give my left tit than to have to be a lawyer involved in this case. Just seems like it would get old real fast.

It is what they do, and charge by the hour for doing.

SnuffleUffleGrass
05-08-2019, 08:37 AM
Maybe cause they got naked but didn’t have their pussy n breasts fondled

Or they just assumed women don’t get happy ending massages especially from another woman.

But I suppose if it were a chance that women were engaging in the same acts as male clients at the Orchid spa then they should be face the same consequences according to FL law although I am thinking that Happy ending massages really should just be legal

I've gone to a "happy ending" massage place myself. It was the closest to me.

See this is another reason this sort of sting is so arbitrary and stupid. Investing all of these man hours of LE personnel so you can catch a few old men getting handies. Way to go, great priorities there. America is so much safer.

miss.a.p1600
05-08-2019, 08:54 AM
It is what they do, and charge by the hour for doing.

Yeah I suppose the typical lawyer enjoys what they do.

If it were me, I'd have a very healthy retainer fee to spend time litigating such cases.


I've gone to a "happy ending" massage place myself. It was the closest to me.

See this is another reason this sort of sting is so arbitrary and stupid. Investing all of these man hours of LE personnel so you can catch a few old men getting handies. Way to go, great priorities there. America is so much safer.

Yeah I've been in a similar situation. I think I mentioned going to a standard spa but the masseuse was so good - it felt almost like a happy ending massage - so I can see the point about the consensual part of both people and it being done in an enclosed area with no one around so I can't imagine being on trial for something like that.

I really think part of it is egos come into play in court someone will 'win' and someone will 'lose' and they will spend money/time/resources to come out on top

whirlerz
05-08-2019, 09:31 AM
aww love you too hon!

I would rather give my left tit than to have to be a lawyer involved in this case. Just seems like it would get old real fast.

They gets the $'s tho, gotta be big $ for them.
They're overplaying it a bit tho, IMO

But yea, this's getting REAL old, rn.
Lol, Robbie's not gettin' any younger either!

miss.a.p1600
05-09-2019, 11:24 AM
Desperation

Perhaps

Ratchet Tea Party - episode 2

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/05/09/robert-kraft-lawyer-says-fla-cop-joked-about-getting-job-with-defense/4S6nck827sugm4WJtKigBN/story.html

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/pitched-battle-kraft-attorneys-fire-back-prosecutors-62916076

I definitely think some of the police officers are really dumb. It says here how it started was the officers got very friendly with krafts defense lawyer asking to work for him and what kind of celebs he had as clients asking to hang out when case is over and even admitted to being worried about what he said on body cam during traffic stop of one of the johns.

Why would police be this thirsty, this open, this friendly with court room opponents?

Of course the police were challenged on the stand about probable cause for a traffic stop of johns leaving spa and police - according to defense team - said “ill just make some shit up”. Police denied saying this but after finally getting body cam footage the quote was “ill come up with something”

But on another article the police had rationale for this

“Prosecutors said Spiro knew Kimbark never used that language or said he would concoct a reason to stop the driver. They said the traffic stop was legitimate, but that in order to preserve the integrity of their undercover operation, Kimbark said he would disguise where the infraction happened if asked. They said Spiro and Burck sullied Kimbark's reputation by implying he would lie to justify a stop.”

I am guessing police are using the contempt of court angle to keep the defense team from trying to destroy their credibility? Or they are both trying to destroy each other’s credibility. Seems like they are both getting desperate.

Anyways What does this have to do with the admissibility of the spa footage though? Is defense team say Jupiter police manufacture probable cause in one instance then it’s likely they manufactured probable cause for warrant for the spa surveillance?

slowpoke
05-09-2019, 03:05 PM
https://s.abcnews.com/images/Sports/WireAP_d606b4c3c8e9491dbe9d31afc9bfb43e_12x5_992.j pg
Jupiter Police Detective Andrew Sharp is questioned by Alex Spiro, right, attorney for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, during a motion hearing in the Kraft prostitution solicitation case, Wednesday, May 1, 2019, in West Palm Beach, Fla. Kraft's attorneys argue that undercover surveillance videos allegedly showing their client paying for sex at a Jupiter day spa should be ruled inadmissible and the evidence thrown out.

Pretty astounding the police officer would choose such low authority clothing to wear to the motion to suppress. He ought to be in a navy blue suit, crisply pressed white broadcloth shirt and rep tie.