View Full Version : California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!!
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anonamiss
10-09-2019, 01:44 PM
I would NEVER incorporate a business in the state of California. Too expensive for a variety of reasons. You would need to consult with an attorney or any one of the incorporation businesses (LegalZoom, MyCorporation, etc.) about incorporating in ANOTHER state. This might save you on fees and business income taxes. Also if you incorporate out of state you would NEED to obtain a Registered Agent.
see this is where I get really confused.
since the AB-5 law affects California, and incorporating a business would protect me from being affected, I figured that would mean I would need to do all my legal paperwork and incorporate my business in California?
is that not the case?
in what instance would anyone *need* to incorporate their business in California? I don't understand how all of this works.
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 01:45 PM
Delaware is a VERY popular state to incorporate your business. All the major banks are incorporated in Delaware. Helps them save ALOT of money in business income taxes. LOL
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 01:46 PM
You can incorporate your business in ANY state. You just need to make sure that in the state and/or county you are operating your business you have a valid AND current business license.
see this is where I get really confused.
since the AB-5 law affects California, and incorporating a business would protect me from being affected, I figured that would mean I would need to do all my legal paperwork and incorporate my business in California?
is that not the case?
in what instance would anyone *need* to incorporate their business in California? I don't understand how all of this works.
xxxGothBarbie
10-09-2019, 01:57 PM
I just won't work on any site that is out of California. That state always t tried to have the last word with anything $ related. Thankfully I'm not a resident there anymore.
anonamiss
10-09-2019, 01:57 PM
hmm. I just did some quick googling which seems to contradict some of the advice here. I appreciate all the input, but there's a lot to take in and I guess I'm just going to have to do more research on this.
"Generally speaking, if your business is going to be located in California, it should be incorporated in California. There are reasons for this. While states like Nevada, Wyoming, and Delaware may offer tax and privacy advantages, if you are doing business in California you will have to register your business entity in California—regardless of which state you incorporate in. Thus, if you are located in California or doing business in California, you will have to pay all the filing fees and taxes associated with California—as well as the filing fees, registration fees, and any other applicable fees that are required by the state in which your business was incorporated."
https://beverlyhillslawcorp.com/should-you-incorporate-your-new-business-in-california-or-another-state/
xxxGothBarbie
10-09-2019, 02:08 PM
Do any of you know which sites are all based out of CA so I can not work them anymore? I know nf, phrendly, cams are but what others?
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 02:09 PM
Seems like California is trying to make it more difficult for businesses to incorporate OUT OF STATE. By basically hitting you with DOUBLE fees. Not cool.
Here is what I found myself... "In addition to the Delaware franchise taxes (minimum $275 or $400 per year), Delaware corporations conducting intrastate business in California must file a statement of qualification in California and pay the minimum franchise tax of $800. The Delaware corporation must pay to file in Delaware and must pay to run the corporation in California, which amounts to extra money in filing fees and extra administrative duties. The Delaware corporation must also maintain a registered agent in Delaware, which usually costs around $100 a year."
Looks like you California ladies might be best off incorporating in California.
California changed the game so that incorporating OUT of state really only benefits you if you have a publicly traded company. SUCKS!!!
I incorporated both my businesses out side of the state I currently live in. My current state of residence does not have such restrictions. That's why I advised ladies to consult with people (an attorney or an incorporation business) on your particular situation. DO NOT try to do this yourself.
hmm. I just did some quick googling which seems to contradict some of the advice here. I appreciate all the input, but there's a lot to take in and I guess I'm just going to have to do more research on this.
"Generally speaking, if your business is going to be located in California, it should be incorporated in California. There are reasons for this. While states like Nevada, Wyoming, and Delaware may offer tax and privacy advantages, if you are doing business in California you will have to register your business entity in California—regardless of which state you incorporate in. Thus, if you are located in California or doing business in California, you will have to pay all the filing fees and taxes associated with California—as well as the filing fees, registration fees, and any other applicable fees that are required by the state in which your business was incorporated."
https://beverlyhillslawcorp.com/should-you-incorporate-your-new-business-in-california-or-another-state/
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 02:11 PM
Do any of you know which sites are all based out of CA so I can not work them anymore? I know nf, phrendly, cams are but what others?
Niteflirt
Phone Stars
US Love
Chaturbate
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 02:29 PM
Unfortunately, becoming a business entity in California is going to be kind of costly for many of you ladies in California.
Your incorporation costs and fees are more expensive.
Also your business income tax rate is going to be higher than the national average :(
Read this article https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/102115/taxes-california-small-business-basics.asp
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 02:44 PM
The more I look into this new law, it seems like it is just a way for the state of California to collect more fees and taxes.
They will hit employers with payroll taxes if you are re-classified as an employee.
If you choose to not be considered an employee, you will be hit will steep fees and high business income taxes when you incorporate as your own business.
So many businesses are abandoning California and setting up there headquarters in other states.
Seems like California should prepare for a mass exodus.
laurielegs
10-09-2019, 02:46 PM
Do any of you know which sites are all based out of CA so I can not work them anymore? I know nf, phrendly, cams are but what others?
I think it's a mistake to just cut out Niteflirt - that's a lot of income to lose, plus Niteflirt does have a good team of lawyers. They are not going to let this affect their business I don't think.
I would not be surprised if they base Niteflirt elsewhere should it begin to cut into their bottom line.
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 02:53 PM
I agree. A lot of California-based adult companies might relocate to Nevada or Florida. Both sates have been very friendly to the adult industry in the past.
I think it's a mistake to just cut out Niteflirt - that's a lot of income to lose, plus Niteflirt does have a good team of lawyers. They are not going to let this affect their business I don't think.
I would not be surprised if they base Niteflirt elsewhere should it begin to cut into their bottom line.
Erika_Xstacy
10-09-2019, 02:54 PM
https://webcamstartup.com/california-ab5/
https://adultbizlaw.com/2019/09/24/how-californias-new-employee-law-may-affect-cam-performers-cam-studios-and-cam-platforms/
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 03:04 PM
Thank you so much for these articles.
It still stands though that the way you become exempt from being someone's employee is that you incorporate your own business and provide services to the company under your incorporated business entity.
The only thing is that this might be a financial hardship for MANY independent contractors in California to form their own legal business entities. :(
https://webcamstartup.com/california-ab5/
https://adultbizlaw.com/2019/09/24/how-californias-new-employee-law-may-affect-cam-performers-cam-studios-and-cam-platforms/
anonamiss
10-09-2019, 03:05 PM
also Flirt4Free
Do any of you know which sites are all based out of CA so I can not work them anymore? I know nf, phrendly, cams are but what others?
Niteflirt
Phone Stars
US Love
Chaturbate
xxxGothBarbie
10-09-2019, 04:45 PM
I think it's a mistake to just cut out Niteflirt - that's a lot of income to lose, plus Niteflirt does have a good team of lawyers. They are not going to let this affect their business I don't think.
I would not be surprised if they base Niteflirt elsewhere should it begin to cut into their bottom line.
I def dont want to but unless they fight a his nonsense & NO comply then I'll have to bc I refuse to be an employee anywhere.
laurielegs
10-09-2019, 05:02 PM
I def dont want to but unless they fight a his nonsense & NO comply then I'll have to bc I refuse to be an employee anywhere.
I won't either. I believe they will find a way around this, even if they have to move the business out of the USA.
xxxGothBarbie
10-09-2019, 05:06 PM
So does that mean that all ca based companies are gonna send us paperwork to make us employees even if we aren't ca residents?
laurielegs
10-09-2019, 05:27 PM
So does that mean that all ca based companies are gonna send us paperwork to make us employees even if we aren't ca residents?
From what I understand even if they did somehow apply this to cam models (and from what I see overall I doubt they can) it would only apply if the person working for the site is living in California.
I used to work for a medical transcription company as a supervisor. We had nationwide employees who worked from a home office and transmitted their typing remotely. The way overtime worked is that all my employees outside California got overtime over 40 hours.
For those employees who lived in California our company had to abide by Cali wage and hour laws and they got overtime any time they worked over 8 hours in a single day. They theoretically could work 10 hours a week and make 2 hours of overtime pay.
So the law only applied for those with their home residence inside Cali.
anonamiss
10-09-2019, 05:31 PM
So does that mean that all ca based companies are gonna send us paperwork to make us employees even if we aren't ca residents?
According to one article, yes.
"If the company is based out of California: (such as Flirt4Free, Chaturbate and Studio20’s LA location, to name a few), the company can no longer accept performers on their platforms as independent contractors and must hire all performers. This takes effect on January 1st, 2020.
Needless to say this is not feasible at all. Not with the business model of the companies, nor within said deadlines. It would be more feasible to relocate outside of California, so that way only the following applies:
For companies located outside of California: It’s not quite as scary, but still bad. You’ll only have to hire every performer from the State of California, as there’s still the employment laws in effect in their home state. Either that or remove every California performer from your platform."
https://webcamstartup.com/california-ab5/
anonamiss
10-09-2019, 05:40 PM
I'm surprised neither of those two cam-related articles, particularly the one written by the adult industry lawyer, suggested that California models look into incorporating as a business as a way of getting around the law. It seems like a relatively simple (albeit expensive) solution, unless we're missing something here.
xxxGothBarbie
10-09-2019, 05:41 PM
I really hope these sites can fight back & all of us keep our jobs & the freedom that comes with it .
anonamiss
10-09-2019, 05:47 PM
I really hope these sites can fight back & all of us keep our jobs & the freedom that comes with it .
They were quick to do what was necessary to cover their asses when FOSTA/SESTA became the new law. So I have hope and confidence they'll figure this out too.
Although if I recall correctly, some UK based camsites fired their US workers because of FOSTA/SESTA... So I hope that's not what it comes to with AB5 and California performers.
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 06:18 PM
This is the part of the law that would protect people who form their own business entities...
The holding does not apply to a bona fide business-to-business contracting relationship, as defined below, under the following conditions:
1) If a business entity formed as a sole proprietorship, partnership, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation (“business service provider”) contracts to provide services to another such business (“contracting business”), the determination of employee or independent contractor status of the business services provider shall be governed by Borello, if the contracting business demonstrates that all of the following criteria are satisfied:
(A) The business service provider is free from the control and direction of the contracting business entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact.
(B) The business service provider is providing services directly to the contracting business rather than to customers of the contracting business.
(C) The contract with the business service provider is in writing.
(D) If the work is performed in a jurisdiction that requires the business service provider to have a business license or business tax registration, the business service provider has the required business license or business tax registration.
(E) The business service provider maintains a business location that is separate from the business or work location of the contracting business.
(F) The business service provider is customarily engaged in an independently established business of the same nature as that involved in the work performed.
(G) The business service provider actually contracts with other businesses to provide the same or similar services and maintains a clientele without restrictions from the hiring entity.
(H) The business service provider advertises and holds itself out to the public as available to provide the same or similar services.
(I) The business service provider provides its own tools, vehicles, and equipment to perform the services.
(J) The business service provider can negotiate its own rates.
(K) Consistent with the nature of the work, the business service provider can set its own hours and location of work.
(L) The business service provider is not performing the type of work for which a license from the Contractor’s State License Board is required, pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 7000) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code.
EricaErotica
10-09-2019, 06:37 PM
This is the actual text of California Assembly Bill 5
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200AB5
anonamiss
10-09-2019, 08:34 PM
The holding does not apply to a bona fide business-to-business contracting relationship, as defined below, under the following conditions:
1) If a business entity formed as a sole proprietorship , partnership, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation (“business service provider"). . .
is there a way of "officially" becoming a sole proprietor? I thought that as independent contractors we are by default sole proprietors, but that can't be the case in relation to this law.
That makes me wonder if simply getting an EIN and having the cam sites pay us through that would be enough protection, because wouldn't that prove that we are in fact contractors?
EricaErotica
10-10-2019, 12:05 AM
You ladies need to always think about legal protection. A sole proprietorship is NOT a legal entity. If someone brings a lawsuit against your business YOU are personally liable and all your personal assets can be lost. Also start thinking BIG. With all my businesses, I have established business credit. Most banks and lending institutions will NOT extend business credit and business loans to a sole proprietorship. The way you become wealthy in America is by establishing BUSINESS CREDIT and by acquiring assets as a LEGAL BUSINESS ENTITY.
is there a way of "officially" becoming a sole proprietor? I thought that as independent contractors we are by default sole proprietors, but that can't be the case in relation to this law.
That makes me wonder if simply getting an EIN and having the cam sites pay us through that would be enough protection, because wouldn't that prove that we are in fact contractors?
PixiieGirl
10-10-2019, 02:13 AM
They were quick to do what was necessary to cover their asses when FOSTA/SESTA became the new law. So I have hope and confidence they'll figure this out too.
Although if I recall correctly, some UK based camsites fired their US workers because of FOSTA/SESTA... So I hope that's not what it comes to with AB5 and California performers.
AW did, only one I think, which I think is more cause its also an escorting directory
anonamiss
10-10-2019, 12:03 PM
You ladies need to always think about legal protection. A sole proprietorship is NOT a legal entity. If someone brings a lawsuit against your business YOU are personally liable and all your personal assets can be lost. Also start thinking BIG. With all my businesses, I have established business credit. Most banks and lending institutions will NOT extend business credit and business loans to a sole proprietorship. The way you become wealthy in America is by establishing BUSINESS CREDIT and by acquiring assets as a LEGAL BUSINESS ENTITY.
I mean, I'm not trying to start a porn empire over here. I cam to pay bills and save money, with less time and effort than a standard job. I can't fathom why I'd ever need business credit. I have a great credit score and close to 40k in available personal credit anyway. I just want to keep working as simply as possible without any troubles over this law.
EricaErotica
10-10-2019, 01:30 PM
If all you ever want to do is be a solo adult performer, than maybe you might not need to incorporate. If you never see yourself needing a business partner(s), then you might not need to incorporate. If you never see yourself needing to obtain your own adult merchant account, then you might not need to incorporate. If you never see yourself having contractors or employees, then you might not need to incorporate.
I have two businesses. One adult. One vanilla. I had a third business that was a non-profit organization (actually the non-profit was my first business venture 15 years ago). That right now has been inactive for the last couple years because I needed to build the other businesses over the last 9 years. The non-profit will be revived in a year or two. All the businesses (adult and vanilla) have individuals who I employ so I need to be incorporated to protect my businesses.
Also, if you don't own any assets or plan on owning any assets you might not need to incorporate either. With these businesses, my husband (my business partner) and I have acquired assets that need to be protected. Everyone has different goals in life. We each need to decide what is best for our particular situation. Whether you incorporate or not, it does not effect me. So please do the necessary research, seek the advice of an accountant and/or lawyer. Go with what they tell you is the best route to follow. It is your business NOT mine.
I mean, I'm not trying to start a porn empire over here. I cam to pay bills and save money, with less time and effort than a standard job. I can't fathom why I'd ever need business credit. I have a great credit score and close to 40k in available personal credit anyway. I just want to keep working as simply as possible without any troubles over this law.
EricaErotica
10-10-2019, 02:01 PM
So to answer your question, you don't need to do anything "official" to start a sole proprietorship. Actually, if you are not going to have any employees you don't even need an EIN. Depending on where you live though, you might need to obtain certain business licenses. Consult with an accountant or lawyer to find out what you specifically you will need in order to comply with the codes/laws in your particular jurisdiction.
is there a way of "officially" becoming a sole proprietor? I thought that as independent contractors we are by default sole proprietors, but that can't be the case in relation to this law.
That makes me wonder if simply getting an EIN and having the cam sites pay us through that would be enough protection, because wouldn't that prove that we are in fact contractors?
KatyBoleyn
10-10-2019, 03:54 PM
This is the part of the law that would protect people who form their own business entities...
The holding does not apply to a bona fide business-to-business contracting relationship, as defined below, under the following conditions:
1) If a business entity formed as a sole proprietorship, partnership, limited liability company, limited liability partnership, or corporation (“business service provider”) contracts to provide services to another such business (“contracting business”), the determination of employee or independent contractor status of the business services provider shall be governed by Borello, if the contracting business demonstrates that all of the following criteria are satisfied:
(A) The business service provider is free from the control and direction of the contracting business entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact.
(B) The business service provider is providing services directly to the contracting business rather than to customers of the contracting business.
(C) The contract with the business service provider is in writing.
(D) If the work is performed in a jurisdiction that requires the business service provider to have a business license or business tax registration, the business service provider has the required business license or business tax registration.
(E) The business service provider maintains a business location that is separate from the business or work location of the contracting business.
(F) The business service provider is customarily engaged in an independently established business of the same nature as that involved in the work performed.
(G) The business service provider actually contracts with other businesses to provide the same or similar services and maintains a clientele without restrictions from the hiring entity.
(H) The business service provider advertises and holds itself out to the public as available to provide the same or similar services.
(I) The business service provider provides its own tools, vehicles, and equipment to perform the services.
(J) The business service provider can negotiate its own rates.
(K) Consistent with the nature of the work, the business service provider can set its own hours and location of work.
(L) The business service provider is not performing the type of work for which a license from the Contractor’s State License Board is required, pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 7000) of Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code.
It seems to satisfy every category so far.
The only sticky one may be (B), though I think a re-wording of your contracts would easily fix it.
F, G and H would need to be clarified in plain English, but from a legal perspective are just fine. If a model chooses to be only on one website, by her own volition, that should still satisfy those bullet points. I could see this only restricting sites from forcing you to be exclusive to their site. "Clientele," the way it is used there, are the websites you work on and not the individual customers, so that should be ok as well.
Regardless, we go tomorrow to our CPA to see just what it would take to get compliant just in case. I honestly don't see this law going anywhere fast. Over the years, nearly all work-from-home cammodel hiring places work with the 1099-MISC requirements in mind, not the other way around. The rules and policies for the major camsites are formed with 1099 compliance at the forefront. The ones that should be a little worried are Vegas physical studios.
Glamourmilf
10-11-2019, 05:58 AM
I messaged Liz at Streamate. She assured me that California models won't be affected by this new law.;D
I'm in the process of messaging all the other sites, and will report back with the results. ( If anyone is interested).
xxxGothBarbie
10-11-2019, 09:33 AM
I messaged Liz at Streamate. She assured me that California models won't be affected by this new law.;D
I'm in the process of messaging all the other sites, and will report back with the results. ( If anyone is interested).
Thanks glam ;) I was gonna email them too but glad u beat me to it. Pm me what the others say if you want .i only cam to pay what minimal bills I have & rent ,and just to survive m I honestly never have plans of starting a porn empire or have tons of assets so I'm not gonn a worry anymore.
anonamiss
10-11-2019, 12:08 PM
I messaged Liz at Streamate. She assured me that California models won't be affected by this new law.;D
I'm in the process of messaging all the other sites, and will report back with the results. ( If anyone is interested).
Could you please either post or PM me what Liz said?
Glamourmilf
10-12-2019, 07:36 AM
^^Liz said what I posted. That California models won't be affected.
I got a response from Niteflirt, and Verified Call yesterday. Both said that California models won't be affected.
Chaturbate said that California models won't be affected.
Many vids replied that they're looking into the law, and will get back to me.
I'm still also waiting to hear back from Clips4sale.
xxxGothBarbie
10-12-2019, 08:58 AM
^^Liz said what I posted. That California models won't be affected.
I got a response from Niteflirt, and Verified Call yesterday. Both said that California models won't be affected.
Chaturbate said that California models won't be affected.
Many vids replied that they're looking into the law, and will get back to me.
I'm still also waiting to hear back from Clips4sale.
That's awesome news ;) thanks for the update.
PixiieGirl
10-12-2019, 09:33 AM
Just on a note I read on the NF Forum tgat were not actually classed as contractors on there as they’re just a market place
xxxGothBarbie
10-12-2019, 03:04 PM
I kinda figured that this new law wouldn't really be able to affect us bc of how NF doesn't consider us employees & neither does SM or any other sites. I can see how UBer /Lyft is affected bc they're working for the actual company whereas we aren't really. Same thing for the porn stars, they are contracted thru a company say like Vivid, whereas we aren't.
I'm happy to hear that the California models won't need to worry anymore :)
Mal707
10-12-2019, 06:21 PM
It makes sense that a lot of these companies probably don’t view us as official independent contractors because there’s no actual contract they have us read and sign lol Maybe they just see us as random freelancers or whatever. When I was an IC medical transcriptionist, the companies would have me download a contract, read, sign and date, and scan and upload to them. It seemed much more official
anonamiss
10-12-2019, 07:32 PM
It makes sense that a lot of these companies probably don’t view us as official independent contractors because there’s no actual contract they have us read and sign lol Maybe they just see us as random freelancers or whatever. When I was an IC medical transcriptionist, the companies would have me download a contract, read, sign and date, and scan and upload to them. It seemed much more official
I don't know what sites you work on or how other sites deal with this, but on Streamate you have to agree to a code of conduct as well as provide an "electronic signature" on a a performer agreement before signing up. It is literally a contract, therefore making us contractors.
Here's a relevant excerpt: "At all times while using the Streamate web interface, Performer/Studio shall have your own business license, pay your own taxes, and take all other actions necessary and required to operate as your own separate and distinct business. [...] Performer/Studio is responsible for obtaining any and all registrations, certificates, and licenses and for satisfying all obligations related to Performer/Studio’s payment of taxes under the applicable laws of any country, state or local government."
Edit: I see in your post history you work on Streamate. Did you read those contracts/agreements in full before signing up? (I believe they also made us accept it again when they added clauses about prostitution/sex trafficking in regards to SESTA/FOSTA last year.)
Hopefully everyone on SM *has* read these already, but in case anyone hasn't:
https://streamatehelp.com/performerstudio-agreement/
https://www.streamatemodels.com/conduct.php
Mal707
10-12-2019, 07:55 PM
I don't know what sites you work on or how other sites deal with this, but on Streamate you have to agree to a code of conduct as well as provide an "electronic signature" on a a performer agreement before signing up. It is literally a contract, therefore making us contractors.
Here's a relevant excerpt: "At all times while using the Streamate web interface, Performer/Studio shall have your own business license, pay your own taxes, and take all other actions necessary and required to operate as your own separate and distinct business. [...] Performer/Studio is responsible for obtaining any and all registrations, certificates, and licenses and for satisfying all obligations related to Performer/Studio’s payment of taxes under the applicable laws of any country, state or local government."
Edit: I see in your post history you work on Streamate. Did you read those contracts/agreements in full before signing up? (I believe they also made us accept it again when they added clauses about prostitution/sex trafficking in regards to SESTA/FOSTA last year.)
Hopefully everyone on SM *has* read these already, but in case anyone hasn't:
https://streamatehelp.com/performerstudio-agreement/
https://www.streamatemodels.com/conduct.php
Ohh ok, yea guess I just didn’t remember or realize they were contracts lol It’s cool to know they don’t plan on kicking us ca contractors off on Jan 1 anyway :D
Glamourmilf
10-23-2019, 09:28 AM
Well.....After watching Clips4sale video, with legal counsel last week.
It appears that all California cam models, pso, and clip makers will be affected. From what was said, companies are ALREADY not hiring California models.
*The webinar is also on clis4sale YouTube channel. ( I'll Link it if anyone can't find it).
*I really hope the companies that I personally spoke to, that said California won't be affected, weren't lying.
Because if they were, I've been down this road before.
I got into camming, because the large company that I worked for shut it's doors, without warning.
For months prior, I heard the rumblings that they might close. * Which they denied.
I can't believe I'm here again.:'(
xxxGothBarbie
10-31-2019, 02:06 PM
Well.....After watching Clips4sale video, with legal counsel last week.
It appears that all California cam models, pso, and clip makers will be affected. From what was said, companies are ALREADY not hiring California models.
*The webinar is also on clis4sale YouTube channel. ( I'll Link it if anyone can't find it).
*I really hope the companies that I personally spoke to, that said California won't be affected, weren't lying.
Because if they were, I've been down this road before.
I got into camming, because the large company that I worked for shut it's doors, without warning.
For months prior, I heard the rumblings that they might close. * Which they denied.
I can't believe I'm here again.:'(
I would ask them again to see if they know for sure if models would be affected or not. The whole thing seems aimed more so at Uber drivers/delivery gig type workers than cam models per say, simply bc they actually report to a job unlike models do. I could be wrong, but I seriously find it hard to believe that it would affect models.
Pso's/models/clipmakers aren't "employees" in the first place. Take NF for example, someone else mentioned on here that they even state when signing up that we aren't "employees".
I'm not a Ca resident but if I were , I'd be damned if I let this bullshit new law control my decision on what work I did. Hopefully someone can chime in here if they've talked to any of the sites recently regarding this.
Glamourmilf
11-01-2019, 08:07 AM
I would ask them again to see if they know for sure if models would be affected or not. The whole thing seems aimed more so at Uber drivers/delivery gig type workers than cam models per say, simply bc they actually report to a job unlike models do. I could be wrong, but I seriously find it hard to believe that it would affect models.
Pso's/models/clipmakers aren't "employees" in the first place. Take NF for example, someone else mentioned on here that they even state when signing up that we aren't "employees".
I'm not a Ca resident but if I were , I'd be damned if I let this bullshit new law control my decision on what work I did. Hopefully someone can chime in here if they've talked to any of the sites recently regarding this.
Ask them again?
Why?
They're only going to lie anyway.
I don't know how many cam models live in California, but I bet it's a lot.
You girls that don't will have an advantage.
Because the numbers of logged in models will drop.
Less competition online. And for clips sites too.
Erika_Xstacy
11-01-2019, 01:03 PM
B. Your Separate Business
At all times while using the Streamate web interface, Performer/Studio shall have your own business license, pay your own taxes, and take all other actions necessary and required to operate as your own separate and distinct business. Performer/Studio represents and warrants that Performer/Studio will obtain and keep current all business licenses as required by federal, state and local laws relating to you generating revenue under the terms of this Agreement. Performer/Studio is responsible for obtaining any and all registrations, certificates, and licenses and for satisfying all obligations related to Performer/Studio’s payment of taxes under the applicable laws of any country, state or local government. Performer/Studio is also responsible for maintaining appropriate workers compensation coverage or insurance for you and any of your employees.
Following state laws sounds like the deal
its just like obtaining a official govt ID to work everyone requires this and if someone doesn't have it, they need to find a way to go get it or work illegally.
I guess we wait until January to find out from cam sites.
How many models actually have business license? Im sure not many.
Im sure streamate is aware of this so it seems they would put out a video/mail to go back and re read TOS to make sure we are compliant to work. maybe highlight shit models dont quite understand
yall know how some websites do: to buy simple products simply state in fine print they dont ship to xyz states.
On the other hand streamate is probably like "its in our TOS"
im keeping a eye for ya online to see any models squawking about this on twitter. seems like a dead subject
Id just hate to get down to last days and find out
clips4sale covered it pretty good
PixiieGirl
11-01-2019, 05:31 PM
I would say girls, I went through all this what if and defeated feelings with age ID in the UK, but sites did seem willing to work around it, hope they do <3
xxxGothBarbie
11-01-2019, 06:27 PM
So does that mean that those of us that travel to ca sometimes aren't even gonna be allowed to stream while we are there? LoL I'm finding this a bit ridiculous. If this silly thing goes into effect , I honestly dont see it sticking. Just my 2cents.
anonamiss
11-03-2019, 07:43 PM
I found another relevant excerpt from SM's agreements that was worded a little differently than the ones already previously posted. (This is from the bottom of the Payment History page.)
Independent Contracting Parties
Based on our agreement, Performer/Studio and Streamate are independent contracting parties. Performer/Studio is not an employee of Streamate in any way or for any purpose. As an independent contracting party, Performer/Studio is responsible to and will obtain all necessary and applicable country, state and local licenses; maintain workers’ compensation coverage and unemployment benefits coverage (if applicable); pay all required taxes relating to Performer/Studio’s services; etc. Streamate will not make any payments for or withhold on behalf of Performer/Studio any amounts for unemployment benefits; workers compensation; FICA (Social Security and Medicare); any kind of taxes; etc.
PERFORMER/STUDIO HAS NO CLAIM AGAINST STREAMATE OR AGAINST ITS ACCOUNT FOR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS, WORKERS COMPENSATION BENEFITS, SICK LEAVE, OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF EMPLOYEE BENEFIT.
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The issue is, I'm not sure if SM simply having a contract like this will be sufficient for our status as ICs to remain valid. It still boils down to whether or not cammodels pass the ABC test from AB-5, which is effectively going to be up to the state to decide. It will be on Streamate to defend and lobby for us remaining contractors, because the law says the responsibility for worker classification is on the employer, not the worker.
Interestingly they did say in the Clips4Sale seminar that there was already a legal case regarding phone sex operators and it was ruled that they are in fact employees. (Edit: this was apparently only ruled for "dispatch" phone sex companies, not independent ones like Niteflirt, which makes sense.)
Here's the video - https://blog.clips4sale.com/b/clips4sale-legal-zone-series-6-full-video/
anonamiss
11-03-2019, 07:53 PM
Also found these articles that speculate on whether or not cammodels would pass the ABC test.
https://xchatz.com/ab5-abc-test-for-cam-model-industry-california-law/
https://www.ynotcam.com/2019/10/14/adult-industry-job-status-in-light-of-californias-ab5/