View Full Version : California Assembly 5 NEW LAW Independent Contractors will no longer be allowed!!!
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anonamiss
01-03-2020, 03:35 PM
update: just got my paperwork. I was offered 29%. I am sorry to the girls who got less. :\
I think it must be deliberate and based on past performance (earnings, time online) as well as other factors (number of favorites? number of new converted customers? who knows) - it just sucks not knowing what their criteria is.
anonamiss
01-03-2020, 03:50 PM
"The Commission Plan is established to encourage employees to generate live chat sales on the Site and to competitively reward employees."
Maybe they plan to eventually offer an increase of commissions to the girls who were offered less, if they can meet certain criteria that other girls have already met.
anonamiss
01-03-2020, 03:59 PM
There are multiple parts of this contract that say "This policy applies to employees who work on or after January 1st" and yet our new pay percentage doesn't start until the 15th.
So does that mean I have to start tracking my hours and taking breaks now, even though I'm still getting the old 35% percentage for another ~2 weeks? Bah. I assume yes (as soon as I sign and return the contract at least) because January 1st was the actual AB-5 date.
Guess I'll try to rock that extra 6% as much as I can til the 15th.
SamanthaSugar
01-03-2020, 04:05 PM
There are multiple parts of this contract that say "This policy applies to employees who work on or after January 1st" and yet our new pay percentage doesn't start until the 15th.
So does that mean I have to start tracking my hours and taking breaks now, even though I'm still getting the old 35% percentage for another ~2 weeks? Bah. I assume yes (as soon as I sign and return the contract at least) because January 1st was the actual AB-5 date.
Guess I'll try to rock that extra 6% as much as I can til the 15th.
You can up your prices a little to absorb the loss. I'm going to raise my rates by .50
I just can't go down in pay.
anonamiss
01-03-2020, 04:10 PM
Also it does state in the Paychecks section that they will "withhold all required payroll taxes."
I still have a feeling that those will be taken out after our 29% commission though. I don't know how else it would work, because there's no magic percentage of taxes they can work into our net commission because every girl makes a different amount of money.
I have a handful of questions and I would be very professional and concise if I were to send them CalGems, but I seriously doubt they'll be able to answer them competently or promptly. Ughhhhhhhh.
GracieBlue
01-03-2020, 04:22 PM
That's such bullshit. They really should've given everyone the same percentage. If they're going to start doing that kind of garbage then they should do it site wide it's not really fair. They also should've explain things 100 million times better than they did and the reasoning but obviously that's not gonna happen. I'm definitely looking into other sites.
"The Commission Plan is established to encourage employees to generate live chat sales on the Site and to competitively reward employees."
Maybe they plan to eventually offer an increase of commissions to the girls who were offered less, if they can meet certain criteria that other girls have already met.
SamanthaSugar
01-03-2020, 04:26 PM
Also it does state in the Paychecks section that they will "withhold all required payroll taxes."
I still have a feeling that those will be taken out after our 29% commission though. I don't know how else it would work, because there's no magic percentage of taxes they can work into our net commission because every girl makes a different amount of money.
I have a handful of questions and I would be very professional and concise if I were to send them CalGems, but I seriously doubt they'll be able to answer them competently or promptly. Ughhhhhhhh.
I just emailed CalGems asking if I could file Exempt and not have them take out taxes.
I also emailed my CPA to see what the laws are and any possible loop holes :)
I'll keep you all posted.
GracieBlue
01-03-2020, 04:33 PM
I'd really like to know why they're penalizing us. I can absolutely see a lower percentage rate to account for all of the taxes etc. I don't understand why people are getting different commissions though. That makes no sense.
SamanthaSugar
01-03-2020, 04:35 PM
Since we are now employees, shouldn't they be giving us an allowance for our internet, computer..?
Erika_Xstacy
01-03-2020, 04:49 PM
"The Commission Plan is established to encourage employees to generate live chat sales on the Site and to competitively reward employees."
Maybe they plan to eventually offer an increase of commissions to the girls who were offered less, if they can meet certain criteria that other girls have already met.
makes perfect sense
or
is this a full time emp vs part time emp offer?
GracieBlue
01-03-2020, 04:52 PM
It does make sense… But why just for California models? They should do it sitewide. I can absolutely understand us getting a lower percentage because they are having to pay all of the different California state working regulation things but if they're going to offer competitive percentages for people who may or may not earn well on the site then they should do that for everyone.
makes perfect sense
or
is this a full time emp vs part time emp offer?
Erika_Xstacy
01-03-2020, 06:59 PM
It does make sense… But why just for California models? They should do it sitewide. I can absolutely understand us getting a lower percentage because they are having to pay all of the different California state working regulation things but if they're going to offer competitive percentages for people who may or may not earn well on the site then they should do that for everyone.
its california's new law to reclassify workers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_OvxmWR72w&t=294s
sm had nothing to do with that
GracieBlue
01-03-2020, 07:17 PM
That's not what I meant. I obviously know that. I'm referring to the different commissions. I guess I wasn't clear.
its california's new law to reclassify workers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_OvxmWR72w&t=294s
sm had nothing to do with that
innocentindian
01-03-2020, 07:31 PM
Does anyone know the cutoff date for CA performers that aren't signing up with CalGems? I've gotten confirmation from SM that after January 6th, streaming will be disabled for those models. But the contract says something about January 15th, so I'm a little confused about that.
xxxGothBarbie
01-03-2020, 08:20 PM
I'm just wondering what will happen to non ca models that visit Ca while this law crap is in motion & try to stream while there on vacation or just visiting? Will you even be able to?
TrifilinCamHo
01-03-2020, 09:02 PM
Also it does state in the Paychecks section that they will "withhold all required payroll taxes."
I still have a feeling that those will be taken out after our 29% commission though. I don't know how else it would work, because there's no magic percentage of taxes they can work into our net commission because every girl makes a different amount of money.
I have a handful of questions and I would be very professional and concise if I were to send them CalGems, but I seriously doubt they'll be able to answer them competently or promptly. Ughhhhhhhh.
I spent a while articulating and composing an email to them today because I'm still not signing anything until I know [1] if the commission offered covers ALL income earned on the site including gold tips/gold shows and not just pay-per-minute like they denoted in the contract, [2] how they are are going to handle bonuses/contest prizes i.e. if we get the amount of whatever prize/bonus in full still, and [3] if we can stop working under CalGems (in the case of AB5 being repealed or moving out of state) and revert to being ICs for Streamate without our model accounts being affected.
Honestly I just want this shit repealed already, this law is fucking absurd and is really harming alot of people in various industries across CA.
anonamiss
01-03-2020, 09:03 PM
Does anyone know the cutoff date for CA performers that aren't signing up with CalGems? I've gotten confirmation from SM that after January 6th, streaming will be disabled for those models. But the contract says something about January 15th, so I'm a little confused about that.
Yeah, I'm wondering too. Real convenient for them to send out these docs on a Friday, and also imply that we can't stream anymore after Monday unless all of this contract shit is taken care of. I can't imagine that the HR process will be super simple either, so I kind of doubt it will be an easy transition given that they have to send more docs as well as set you up on some HR portal thing so you can log your hours, and it makes me wonder how much potential stream time we might lose.
I hope they get back to anyone who asks questions over the weekend but I'm not counting on it.
anonamiss
01-03-2020, 09:09 PM
I spent a while articulating and composing an email to them today because I'm still not signing anything until I know [1] if the commission offered covers ALL income earned on the site including gold tips/gold shows and not just pay-per-minute like they denoted in the contract, [2] how they are are going to handle bonuses/contest prizes i.e. if we get the amount of whatever prize/bonus in full still, and [3] if we can stop working under CalGems (in the case of AB5 being repealed or moving out of state) and revert to being ICs for Streamate without our model accounts being affected.
Honestly I just want this shit repealed already, this law is fucking absurd and is really harming alot of people in various industries across CA.
I didn't get the impression they wouldn't include Gold in the commission? It says "you'll receive commissions based on all live chat sales generated by your performances." I assume "live chat sales" just means any money you've earned while you're streaming. Not specific to privates versus Gold. Hmm.
Still good/valid questions though, please report back if they answer any.
Erika_Xstacy
01-03-2020, 09:36 PM
That's not what I meant. I obviously know that. I'm referring to the different commissions. I guess I wasn't clear.
lmao i was like did she not see it? its been all over the place, ow did she miss it? my bad, blame the weed.
Sersay
01-03-2020, 11:25 PM
I got 28 % ;( do you guys have this breaks summery chart bulshit ? Timesheet ? I actually never told them if I want full or part time job. Maybe all pockets are the same? Besides the %%%%% ((((
anonamiss
01-03-2020, 11:29 PM
I'm being slightly facetious but I had a random thought --
Say we're working on SM and it's super glitchy to the point of it affecting our ability to work, so we contact tech support. If we get a shitty canned response back that doesn't help at all, does that mean we as employees get to go complain to HR until SM actually acknowledges and fixes the issue?
I doubt it, but I'm still rather amused at the thought. :)
anonamiss
01-03-2020, 11:32 PM
I got 28 % ;( do you guys have this breaks summery chart bulshit ? Timesheet ? I actually never told them if I want full or part time job. Maybe all pockets are the same? Besides the %%%%% ((((
Let me see if I can copy/paste and format it.
Rest Breaks. Non-exempt employees who work at least three and one half (31⁄2) hours in a day
are provided one (1) 10-minute rest break for every four hours or major fraction thereof
worked. For purposes of this policy, “major fraction” means any time greater than two (2)
hours. For example, if an employee works more than six hours, but no more than ten (10) hours
in a workday, they are provided and should take two (2) 10-minute rest breaks: one during the first
half of the shift and a second rest break during the second half of the shift. If an employee works
more than ten (10) hours but no more than fourteen (14) hours in a day, they are provided and
should take three (3) 10-minute rest breaks, and so on.
Rest breaks should be taken as close to the middle of each work period as is practical. Employees
are encouraged to take their rest breaks; they are not expected to and may not work during their
rest breaks. Non-exempt employees are paid for all rest break periods. Accordingly, employees
do not need to clock out when taking a rest break.
Summary Chart. Below is a chart that summarizes the rest breaks and meal periods provided to
employees:
Hours of Work --- Meal Periods and Rest Breaks
0 to 3.4 (less than 3.5) --- 0
3.5 to 4.0 --- One 10-minute paid rest break
More than 4.0 up to 5.0 --- One 10-minute paid rest break
More than 5.0 up to 6.0 --- One 10-minute paid rest break and one 30 minute unpaid meal period
More than 6.0 up to 10.0 --- Two 10-minute paid rest breaks and one 30 minute unpaid meal period
More than 10.0 up to 14.0 --- Three 10-minute paid rest breaks and two 30 minute unpaid meal periods
Sersay
01-03-2020, 11:41 PM
Yes! What is it? Full or part time ?
anonamiss
01-03-2020, 11:42 PM
I'm just wondering what will happen to non ca models that visit Ca while this law crap is in motion & try to stream while there on vacation or just visiting? Will you even be able to?
I'm not sure how enforceable it will be but I'm pretty sure that would be against the rules. I have definitely seen some of the porn lawyers on Twitter saying that what matters is the fact that you're *physically working* in CA. so if your regular address/info/business is located in another state, it doesn't matter since you're logging on and working within CA state lines. I assume that applies for any kind of temporary work within the state, too.
anonamiss
01-03-2020, 11:46 PM
Yes! What is it? We have to work every day ?
no, they say our schedule is still flexible. nothing in the packet dictates a minimum amount of hours or times we must log on.
there is this clause however:
"Please keep in mind that due to business needs and operational efficiency, the Company may request for employees to work certain hours or make adjustments to employees' schedules."
I'm not very worried about it though. I'm sure they had to throw that in there for legal compliance. Plus, it only says "request" -- not "require."
We are "at-will" employees, and I've read on other legal forums that that means there are no minimum hours that must be guaranteed.
anonamiss
01-04-2020, 12:20 AM
Another thought I had . . . how will this affect our cammodel referrals?
We usually get an extra 40% for those, which equals 75% earnings with our usual 35%. I wonder if we'll still be able to get a bigger cut through our referral links.
Something tells me SM/CalGems is going to be totally bombarded by legitimate questions they hadn't considered or included in the contract, and it's going to be a giant shit show for a while.
GracieBlue
01-04-2020, 12:46 AM
Mmmm k I've calmed down. :-* I'm still confused about the minimum wage thing. In one part it sounds like we will get that on top of the commission and then in the other part it sounds like we will make the greater of whatever is bigger, wages or commission. Also, in the first part of the packet/contract, it states that once we basically I guess accept employment we will get another compensation package? There are so many discrepancies and contradictions.
GracieBlue
01-04-2020, 12:48 AM
Maybe that's what I need. :D
lmao i was like did she not see it? its been all over the place, ow did she miss it? my bad, blame the weed.
anonamiss
01-05-2020, 03:18 PM
Has anyone signed and returned the packet yet? I don't expect anyone to have gotten a response yet, but I'm just wondering who (if anyone) has fully committed and signed/returned it.
GracieBlue
01-05-2020, 05:12 PM
I haven't done anything with it. I'd like them to answer my questions first. I think I'll do it at the last possible minute.
vivianbear
01-05-2020, 08:10 PM
I signed. We'll see.
anonamiss
01-05-2020, 08:53 PM
I signed. We'll see.
I'm planning to as well, but I was going to give them the weekend plus a business day to potentially get back to me and other models' questions by tomorrow.
If they don't, I'll probably still sign and send it tomorrow. I want to get the HR process started and completed as soon as possible because I don't want my account to be in some weird limbo where I won't be able to work.
vivianbear
01-05-2020, 09:24 PM
I signed and asked WHERE, exactly, to direct those questions to. I'm trying not to overload the emails with requests. Since this has all been going down, I've found that making the requests incrementally has yielded more clear results. I'm a bit more confident than I was at the very beginning, tho. I've read it through, consulted an attorney, and planned my strategy to absorb any losses.
I have a copy that I initially marked up with questions, so when they tell me exactly how best to ask the questions, I'll have them on hand to submit. I have a feeling the official onboarding process will answer many of them. Regardless, anything I get or send will be funneled through some channels, for input, before I submit responses.
I'm not waiting too much longer than 72 hrs to sign, tho. I don't want to get caught up in a backlog. I want to get through this process so I can start adjusting my schedule and adapt to the new format. I can't tell what the losses or gains will be until I actually start working my system. I haven't been given an official option of part vs. full-time, yet. I have a civ-job (24 hrs/wk) that I have to work around, too. The faster they onboard and spell out the schedule requirements, the faster I can figure out how this works for me.
Like I said, we'll see.
GracieBlue
01-05-2020, 09:37 PM
Good idea! That makes a lot of sense I will probably go ahead and submit tomorrow. I'm hoping our accounts pretty much stay as is pertaining to placement etc. I know when you switch from studio back to SM or vice-versa, you go back to new girl status. Hopefully nothing will happen but just one of my thoughts. I was also thinking about it I am going to ask them to negotiate my percentage. I've had other jobs where I negotiated my salary so I'm going to do the same thing here. I've been thinking this whole time like how lucky I am to be able to continue working but at the same time I have other options and I am not taking 24%.
vivianbear
01-05-2020, 10:28 PM
Exactly. I obviously plan to see how much is negotiable and how they have a protocol to challenge what they've set. If they're framing this as "blahblahblah competitive incentive", we have to be able to compare our current standing to something. We have to be patient and see what the format is before we jump in with ultimatums.
I'm not too concerned with the rest of the site, generally. Nothing is changing, technically, overall. Now is likely the best time to reevaluate your hardware, upgrade your internet connection, and do whatever you can, technically, to improve your streaming quality or increase your placement/rank. That and time spent is really all that we can use to gauge what they may be basing these commission-structures on.
GracieBlue
01-05-2020, 10:48 PM
Totally makes sense! I did just send them an email and very nicely asked if I could get a higher rate. I also asked what their criteria was. I have a feeling they're ignoring questions at the moment though and not because it's the weekend. When they sent me my packet they forgot to attach it. I emailed right back and said that it was not attached and they got back to me within minutes. Then I emailed a few other questions and got no response. This was all in the space of like 30 minutes and around noon so it wasn't the end of the day. Not saying it's true just my impression.
Exactly. I obviously plan to see how much is negotiable and how they have a protocol to challenge what they've set. If they're framing this as "blahblahblah competitive incentive", we have to be able to compare our current standing to something. We have to be patient and see what the format is before we jump in with ultimatums.
I'm not too concerned with the rest of the site, generally. Nothing is changing, technically, overall. Now is likely the best time to reevaluate your hardware, upgrade your internet connection, and do whatever you can, technically, to improve your streaming quality or increase your placement/rank. That and time spent is really all that we can use to gauge what they may be basing these commission-structures on.
GracieBlue
01-06-2020, 11:39 AM
OK I heard back. So basically taxes are taken out of everything, our commission, our pay rate etc. So basically we do not get paid minimum-wage on top of commission, whatever is greater but not both. They did not answer me back about a higher commission rate so I asked again. I really feel taken advantage of. There was definitely a more fair way they could've structured this.
anonamiss
01-06-2020, 11:42 AM
They got back to me as well, and assured that we would "maintain our current performer account." So no new girl status, no losing favorites or tags, etc.
Sersay
01-06-2020, 12:20 PM
OK I heard back. So basically taxes are taken out of everything, our commission, our pay rate etc. So basically we do not get paid minimum-wage on top of commission, whatever is greater but not both. They did not answer me back about a higher commission rate so I asked again. I really feel taken advantage of. There was definitely a more fair way they could've structured this.
I’m sorry if that’s a stupid question I just wanna be crystal clear on that. This percent we were offered is after tax? This 28-25% goes fully to our pocket ?
SamanthaSugar
01-06-2020, 12:39 PM
Thank you again for reaching out. Due to the high volume, we are running behind in getting all of the questions answered. Rest assured that we are diligently working on getting the answer(s) to your question(s).
Thank you for your patience.
CAL Gems
GracieBlue
01-06-2020, 12:43 PM
We will be taxed on everything. I guess one way to look at it is that we won't be paying in giant sums of money all at once.
I’m sorry if that’s a stupid question I just wanna be crystal clear on that. This percent we were offered is after tax? This 28-25% goes fully to our pocket ?
anonamiss
01-06-2020, 12:56 PM
I’m sorry if that’s a stupid question I just wanna be crystal clear on that. This percent we were offered is after tax? This 28-25% goes fully to our pocket ?
So the answer is no, the commission is not after tax and is not going fully to our pocket. We will have additional taxes withheld from our paychecks, so you will receive slightly less than whatever your normal SM earnings report says.
We will be taxed on everything. I guess one way to look at it is that we won't be paying in giant sums of money all at once.
Lol, this past year was the first time I really got on top of putting aside tax money from every paycheck and paying my quarterlies in full/on time. It'll feel weird not to do that anymore.
Sersay
01-06-2020, 01:01 PM
It doesn’t make any sense to me. What are we paying for ? Those extra %%% they taking from us. What is it for if it’s not taxes ? I don’t understand. Can somebody explain it to me please?
anonamiss
01-06-2020, 01:06 PM
It doesn’t make any sense to me. What are we paying for ? Those extra %%% they taking from us. What is it for if it’s not taxes ? I don’t understand. Can somebody explain it to me please?
It's for the costs of having to pay some models minimum wage if they don't make it themselves with their commission, and for other costs associated with us being employees such as workers comp, unemployment, etc. It also pays their portion of FICA tax. Our half of FICA will be taken out of our paychecks, along with federal income and state taxes. Edit: It likely also goes towards paying the HR company they had to hire.
It makes sense to me now, but it still sucks.
GracieBlue
01-06-2020, 01:08 PM
We will be paying for workers comp, Social Security etc. i'm sure someone with more knowledge could chime in and get more specific.
It doesn’t make any sense to me. What are we paying for ? Those extra %%% they taking from us. What is it for if it’s not taxes ? I don’t understand. Can somebody explain it to me please?
Sersay
01-06-2020, 01:26 PM
Oh god, It’s so unfair to us anyway. How many percent will it be minus from the rate we were offered ? Like -2%?
anonamiss
01-06-2020, 01:27 PM
It doesn’t make any sense to me. What are we paying for ? Those extra %%% they taking from us. What is it for if it’s not taxes ? I don’t understand. Can somebody explain it to me please?
Here's some general info. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/taxes/fica-tax-withholding/
Basically, because Streamate is our employer now, they are responsible for paying various employer taxes that they didn't have to pay before - so they are taking a bigger cut of our commission to make up for it. That does not include the taxes that we as employees are still obligated to pay, which come straight out of our paychecks.
Sersay
01-06-2020, 01:44 PM
Here's some general info.
Basically, because Streamate is our employer now, they are responsible for paying various employer taxes that they didn't have to pay before - so they are taking a bigger cut of our commission to make up for it. That does not include the taxes that we as employees are still obligated to pay, which come straight out of our paychecks.
FICA tax is a combination of a 6.2% Social Security tax and a 1.45% Medicare tax the IRS imposes on employee earnings. For 2019, only the first $132,900 of earnings is subject to the Social Security part of the tax (in 2020, it’s $137,700). A 0.9% additional Medicare tax may also apply if earnings exceed $200,000 if you’re a single filer or $250,000 if you’re filing jointly.
What if I dont make 132k ? Do I have to pay this FICA tax? And they talking about Medicare there
Medicare: 1.45%. Sometimes referred to as the “hospital insurance tax,” this pays for health insurance for people who are 65 or older, younger people with disabilities and people with certain conditions. Employers typically have to withhold an extra 0.9% on money you earn over $200,000.
Is SM gonna provide medical insurance to us?
Sersay
01-06-2020, 01:46 PM
And after all those extra charges we still gonna get W-2 at the end of the year?????
anonamiss
01-06-2020, 01:52 PM
Oh god, It’s so unfair to us anyway. How many percent will it be minus from the rate we were offered ? Like -2%?
https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#TAjQSIkox8
I posted this once but deleted it because I think I was way off on my math.
Let me try again. If we make $100 (our pre-tax cut on SM), about 17% of that goes to federal and state taxes, and 8.65% goes to FICA. That leaves us with about $75. Your state taxes will vary/depend on where you live in CA.
But it is roughly 25% of our paychecks, which I believe works out to about 7% of our total commission. So effectively if you make 29% on the site, after taxes you keep about 22%.
This is about 5% less than what I'd take home if I were making 35% and paying my own self employment taxes. So all in all, it sucks.
EDIT: This is all very dependent on how much you make. These percentages could be quite different depending on where you live and how much you earn. I was using 60k as a baseline in the calculator.