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rickdugan
06-04-2020, 12:16 PM
https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/29/florida-medical-examiners-were-releasing-coronavirus-death-data-the-state-made-them-stop/

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/department-health-underreporting-covid-19-deaths-orange-osceola-counties/EXM4XIHMCJDABBPBJD3JIVYL4U/


https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-florida-pneumonia-flu-deaths-spike-20200417-lkel6rlik5blhd5zdktkrxhzze-story.html

Those stories are all old Eagle an any differences noted were a result of different ways in which county vs. state health agencies accounted for where a dead person resided. Since this time, two local TV affiliates of ABC and CBS put in a FOIA request for death totals from all 67 counties and then compared the total numbers to the state reported numbers. The discrepancies on a statewide basis were minor.

Unlike NY and other states where government can get away with playing games because they wield way too much control, this is the Sunshine State. Here local governments are not allowed to withhold that information from the press. If this story had any serious legs, the hounds at CNN, CNBC an other cable news outlets would have been all over it. In their absurd angst and anger, they are looking for anything to demonize DeSantis at this point for having the audacity to close later and open back up earlier.

rickdugan
06-04-2020, 12:43 PM
A much higher percentage of flu deaths are among the elderly.

Florida has more than 2,500 deaths so far, including 69 in the past day.

There are people questioning how accurate FL and GA's figures are. Even so, both have higher death rates than CA, especially GA. GA's death rate is close to twice as high CA. Even though GA and FL re-opened, there are many businesses that remain closed and many people are continuing to shelter at home.

There is nobody reputable still questioning the accuracy of Florida's figures. Due to the Sunshine Act, local and state government information is widely accessible. Here we believe in accountable government and won't tolerate obfuscation.

So with that said, there are 27 states with higher death rates than FL, which btw has the same death rate as CA - 11 per 100,000. The difference is that Florida isn't firebombing its economy for the next several years in order to accomplish it.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

Oh, and contrary to your assertions, businesses in 64 or 67 counties are pretty much wide open now. Restaurants are once again brimming with people and commercial activity has resumed. I just took my family to a resort for a long weekend, where my kids splashed around with other kids in several beautiful pools, and some restaurants had an hour or more wait. Retail businesses are fully back and even our strip clubs are opening back up tomorrow. The roads are once again clogged with cars. There is still a long way to go to full recovery, but this notion that FL business owners and consumers are huddling in their houses in fear is nonsense.

FL is a prime example of what happens when sanity and common sense are the mainstays of a state's government rather than politics and fear. FL doesn't need the federal government to bail out its public pensions, so DeSanstis didn't need to come up with absurd reasons to keep the economy closed in the hopes of leveraging more federal bailout money.

eagle2
06-04-2020, 06:33 PM
Oh come now. You know me better than that. We've bantered back and forth for years in a civil manner.

Btw, it is often YOU who personalizes first. I don't mind . I can take it.

As for the word "infected " it can and does mean different things depending on the context. It can mean "sick" ; "exposed" and several other things. It is important because as YOU WELL KNOW , many people EXPOSED to Covid -19 do NOT have any symptoms. They can be and often are INFECTIOUS , meaning they can transmit the virus to others. I'm sorry , but I thought we AGREED about this.

As for the hypocritical attitude of many Blue State governors , it is a fact that they have hammered any business that has tried to open without their imprimatur despite all the precautions those businesses have taken. Yet these same folks are blithely permitting mass demonstrations without distancing or requiring masks. My point is a simple one - If we can have these demonstrations when groups are supposed to be limited in size then WHY can't businesses with strict sanitation , distancing and other precautions reopen. Likewise , they have had little to no sympathy for business owners and their employees but seem rather tolerant of looting those businesses. Looting and arson are destroying mostly black neighborhoods .
I could be patronizing and ask you whether or not you see any disconnect or inconsistency between the two policies but I don't want to insult you. I respect your intellect even when I strongly disagree with you.

I'm not opposed to allowing businesses that are able to operate safely, to open, if take the proper precautions. It doesn't make much difference what I think, since I don't have any say in the matter.

miss.a.p1600
06-04-2020, 07:51 PM
Protests for racial equality wasn’t “allowed” any more than any other mass gathering.

Coronavirus has only impacted people for a few months so far not nearly as long as blacks/minorities have been dealing with the real threat of death from just existing in a supremacist society. Its really pathetic in 2020 blacks and minorities have to protest for BASIC human rights

With respects to religious freedoms, no one is going to die if they can’t physically attend church for a few months.

With respects to business, no one is going to die if they can’t do business (unless they owe money to black market)

No one is going to die if they can't eat at fucking PF Changs for 3 months

No one is going to die if they can't get their hair cut for 6 weeks.

What business will people die from if it doesn't open tomorrow??? BC grocery stores n hospitals been open.

Heaven forbid being inconvenienced for a few months. Try being inconvenienced your entire life because you were born with dark skin.

You’re also conveniently forgetting that many people protested the stay at home orders many of them not wearing masks/not social distancing - Not to mention they showed up WITH guns. Trump encouraged these people to go against their local government, yet I don’t recall any military force whatsoever against these armed protestors because most of them were his voter base - white and conservative

Now the spread of coronavirus.....everyone who hasn’t stayed at home, traipsed out in public sick, refused to social distance, or refused to wear mask in public is responsible for the surge.

eagle2
06-05-2020, 12:05 PM
There is nobody reputable still questioning the accuracy of Florida's figures. Due to the Sunshine Act, local and state government information is widely accessible. Here we believe in accountable government and won't tolerate obfuscation.

So with that said, there are 27 states with higher death rates than FL, which btw has the same death rate as CA - 11 per 100,000. The difference is that Florida isn't firebombing its economy for the next several years in order to accomplish it.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

Oh, and contrary to your assertions, businesses in 64 or 67 counties are pretty much wide open now. Restaurants are once again brimming with people and commercial activity has resumed. I just took my family to a resort for a long weekend, where my kids splashed around with other kids in several beautiful pools, and some restaurants had an hour or more wait. Retail businesses are fully back and even our strip clubs are opening back up tomorrow. The roads are once again clogged with cars. There is still a long way to go to full recovery, but this notion that FL business owners and consumers are huddling in their houses in fear is nonsense.

FL is a prime example of what happens when sanity and common sense are the mainstays of a state's government rather than politics and fear. FL doesn't need the federal government to bail out its public pensions, so DeSanstis didn't need to come up with absurd reasons to keep the economy closed in the hopes of leveraging more federal bailout money.

Georgia's death rate is close to twice as high as California's.

Florida Reports Highest Single Day Number Of COVID-19 Cases Yet; Hillsborough County Adds 95 Cases

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/post/florida-reports-highest-single-day-number-covid-19-cases-yet-hillsborough-county-adds-95-cases

R-209
06-05-2020, 02:35 PM
Now the spread of coronavirus.....everyone who hasn’t stayed at home, traipsed out in public sick, refused to social distance, or refused to wear mask in public is responsible for the surge.

I was just out for errands and would say about 20% of people had masks. I don't understand.

I'm still pissed about the repair guy who came out with no mask or gloves, and wouldn't even wipe down all the surfaces he touched. I called the manager and he was like "whatever."

rickdugan
06-06-2020, 05:15 AM
Georgia's death rate is close to twice as high as California's.

Florida Reports Highest Single Day Number Of COVID-19 Cases Yet; Hillsborough County Adds 95 Cases

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/post/florida-reports-highest-single-day-number-covid-19-cases-yet-hillsborough-county-adds-95-cases

I can't speak for GA because I have not done enough digging to speak intelligently on what's happening there. I suspect that neither have you if your ongoing grasping at straws re: Florida is any indication.

The FL numbers are up because the state continues to expand testing, actively sending roving testing teams into nursing homes and prisons among other places. It goes to figure that the more widespread testing is, the more cases you will find. A lot more of the people being found now are asymptomatic. Our hospitalization rates and death rates continue to trend in the right direction.

This is why FL focuses not on the number of cases found on any given day, but on positivity rates. Statewide about only 4% of the tests are coming back positive, as opposed to much higher percentages in many other northern states. But even that 4% includes a much higher 10% rate in the three SE counties, which is why they are still in Phase 1 while the rest of the state has gone to Phase 2.

FL just keeps doing things right. :)

moneybags
06-07-2020, 12:38 PM
https://youtu.be/CsJFNQd62Wk Have you seen the movie idioticracy? The premise is stupid people multiple more than smart people and now society is dumb. It’s strangely surreal.


On the masks, I read an article of the psychology of why people don’t where masks because it really bothered me. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/06/health/why-people-dont-wear-masks-wellness-trnd/index.html

Honestly, I’m just trying to ignore it because I can’t control it. I put my mask on and ignore the idiots. I don’t even waste time silently judging people who don’t where masks in public. I just get my shit and get out ASAP.

Eric Stoner
06-09-2020, 07:45 AM
You don't know that. Gloves do nothing to prevent the spread of the virus. The virus can just as easily spread from a gloved hand as an uncovered hand. You can't take communion wearing a mask.


COVID-19 is far more contagious than cholera. Cholera is transmitted through human waste. COVID-19 is transmitted through breathing or talking. There are no treatments that are 100% effective. If there were, there wouldn't be thousands of people dying every day.
Controlled tests have shown hydroxychloroquine is not only not effective, but can be deadly. What is your evidence that these studies are flawed?


No it isn't. The pandemic in Italy was traced back to an outdoor football (soccer) match. When Florida opened beaches for spring break, some of those students that went to the beaches, later tested positive. Businesses that can operate safely should be allowed to open. Businesses that can't, should not. Science should be the determining factor. Not politics. Wisconsin reopened two weeks ago and is now reporting its highest daily increase in COVID-19 Cases.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/wisconsin-reports-its-highest-daily-increase-covid-19-cases

I don't think you or Rick understand how deadly or contagious this disease is. We've already experienced over 100,000 deaths over a 2 1/2 month period.



People from the Bronx could easily travel to Brooklyn or Queens.

The last two studies that claimed to show that hydroxychloroquine was both dangerous and ineffective have both been RETRACTED. The Lancet admitted the study it published was based on faulty and maybe even made up data. Same for the New England Journal of Medicine study.

According to Dr. Harvey Risch of the Yale School of Public Health in a small number of patients with serious, pre-existing heart problems there is a higher risk of death. In 30 to 50 year olds ( a low risk group ) there was a 17% benefit of taking hydroxychloroquine preventatively. The latest Brazilian controlled study showed a benefit to sicker patients who got the drug.

Thousands of clinicians , who actually TREAT patients prescribe it every day to patients with serious Covid symptoms. They tend to be older and have underlying conditions. Most have clear improvement after 5 or 6 days. More importantly they stay out of hospitals and off ventilators.

The latest from the WHO is that asymptomatic spread is very rare. If you are not sneezing or coughing there is a very low chance that you will infect others.
So far, the mass protests have not resulted in a spike in Covid cases. Neither have reopenings.

eagle2
06-10-2020, 06:36 PM
The last two studies that claimed to show that hydroxychloroquine was both dangerous and ineffective have both been RETRACTED. The Lancet admitted the study it published was based on faulty and maybe even made up data. Same for the New England Journal of Medicine study.

According to Dr. Harvey Risch of the Yale School of Public Health in a small number of patients with serious, pre-existing heart problems there is a higher risk of death. In 30 to 50 year olds ( a low risk group ) there was a 17% benefit of taking hydroxychloroquine preventatively. The latest Brazilian controlled study showed a benefit to sicker patients who got the drug.

Thousands of clinicians , who actually TREAT patients prescribe it every day to patients with serious Covid symptoms. They tend to be older and have underlying conditions. Most have clear improvement after 5 or 6 days. More importantly they stay out of hospitals and off ventilators.

The latest from the WHO is that asymptomatic spread is very rare. If you are not sneezing or coughing there is a very low chance that you will infect others.


Here's another study in Great Britain:
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-benefit-for-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-possibly-closing-door-to-use-of-drug/

“Today’s preliminary results from the RECOVERY trial are quite clear – hydroxychloroquine does not reduce the risk of death among hospitalized patients with this new disease,” University of Oxford epidemiologist Martin Landray, one of the study’s leaders, said in a statement. “This result should change medical practice worldwide and demonstrates the importance of large, randomized trials to inform decisions about both the efficacy and the safety of treatments.”



So far, the mass protests have not resulted in a spike in Covid cases. Neither have reopenings.

It's too early to tell whether or the protest have resulted in an increase in COVID-19 cases. Also, most of the protesters were wearing masks, which could have possibly prevented it from spreading.

As I mentioned in a previous posts, ICU beds in Montgomery AL have reached capacity from the virus. Texas is now at an all-time high in coronavirus hospitalizations, and experts are expecting the number to increase.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/09/texas-coronavirus-reopening-surge-infections-hospitalizations/

Eric Stoner
06-11-2020, 08:47 AM
Eagle - I don't want to risk insulting you but I have to question whether you read your own links. The study you refer to dealt with HOSPITALIZED patients. Almost every study so far has made it clear that hydroxychloroquine benefits those with mild to moderate symptoms i.e. patients who are NOT in hospitals. That is the whole point of giving them the drug. To keep them OUT of hospitals. To keep them OFF ventilators. There are thousands of doctors who prescribe it every day. Are you saying that they are giving a drug to people that they know does not work ? Why would they do that ? It's a cheap generic. Those same doctors routinely report significant improvement in their patients who are on the drug. How do you account for it ? A placebo effect ? Why does this matter to you ? Why does a proven , effective treatment seem to generate such angst ?
If you do not like or agree with the clinical facts then please take it up with the treating doctors and maybe you can persuade them that they are endangering their patients for little to no therapeutic gain.

miss.a.p1600
06-13-2020, 07:31 AM
If you allegedly didn’t want to risk insulting someone you wouldn’t even need to say a phrase like that. “I don’t wanna insult you but ...... (proceeds to make insulting statement)

Do you have some links to valid studies to reiterate your points? from what I understand is there isn’t much *solid* research either way and it’s not FDA approved for Covid 19


Also add to that there is probably a threat of greedy people hoarding the medication from people who need it - People who have a diagnosis that have fda approval for that medication. In addition, If patients take off label drugs for coronavirus they would need to be well informed of the risks vs advantages.

If I’m reading this correctly As of April 2020 the fda approved emergency use of the medication but it does not provide anything else in regards to the safety or effectiveness.https://www.fda.gov/media/136537/download Outside of clinical trial or hospital setting, there is risk of heart problems https://www.fda.gov/safety/medical-product-safety-information/hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-drug-safety-communication-fda-cautions-against-use

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/19/fda-appears-to-soften-stance-on-hydroxychloroquine-after-trump-says-he-takes-malaria-drug.html

eagle2
06-15-2020, 12:20 PM
Eagle - I don't want to risk insulting you but I have to question whether you read your own links. The study you refer to dealt with HOSPITALIZED patients. Almost every study so far has made it clear that hydroxychloroquine benefits those with mild to moderate symptoms i.e. patients who are NOT in hospitals. That is the whole point of giving them the drug. To keep them OUT of hospitals. To keep them OFF ventilators. There are thousands of doctors who prescribe it every day. Are you saying that they are giving a drug to people that they know does not work ? Why would they do that ? It's a cheap generic. Those same doctors routinely report significant improvement in their patients who are on the drug. How do you account for it ? A placebo effect ? Why does this matter to you ? Why does a proven , effective treatment seem to generate such angst ?
If you do not like or agree with the clinical facts then please take it up with the treating doctors and maybe you can persuade them that they are endangering their patients
for little to no therapeutic gain.

I have yet to see any evidence that hydroxychloroquine is beneficial in any way, to anyone who has been hospitalized for COVID-19, or even exposed to it. I have yet to see you provide any evidence that it is.

From:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19


Praised by presidents as a potential miracle cure and dismissed by others as a deadly distraction, hydroxychloroquine was spared a seeming death blow last week. On 4 June, after critics challenged the data, The Lancet suddenly retracted a paper that had suggested the drug increased the death rate in COVID-19 patients, a finding that had stopped many clinical trials in their tracks. But now three large studies, two in people exposed to the virus and at risk of infection and the other in severely ill patients, show no benefit from the drug. Coming on top of earlier smaller trials with disappointing findings, the new results mean it’s time to move on, some scientists say, and end most of the trials still in progress.


Florida ordered one million doses of the drug, and they can't even give it away:
https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/06/11/florida-ordered-1-million-doses-of-a-trump-touted-drug-hospitals-didnt-want-it-1292638

Where are all of these doctors that you claim are prescribing it?

eagle2
06-16-2020, 02:14 PM
I can't speak for GA because I have not done enough digging to speak intelligently on what's happening there. I suspect that neither have you if your ongoing grasping at straws re: Florida is any indication.

The FL numbers are up because the state continues to expand testing, actively sending roving testing teams into nursing homes and prisons among other places. It goes to figure that the more widespread testing is, the more cases you will find. A lot more of the people being found now are asymptomatic. Our hospitalization rates and death rates continue to trend in the right direction.

This is why FL focuses not on the number of cases found on any given day, but on positivity rates. Statewide about only 4% of the tests are coming back positive, as opposed to much higher percentages in many other northern states. But even that 4% includes a much higher 10% rate in the three SE counties, which is why they are still in Phase 1 while the rest of the state has gone to Phase 2.

FL just keeps doing things right. :)

Florida hit a new high of 2,783 coronavirus cases on Monday, and the number could not be attributed to increased testing.

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/florida-sees-a-record-2783-daily-coronavirus-cases-as-state-total-hits-80000/



A Miami Herald analysis of public and non-public COVID-19 data found that as of June 3, new cases in the state had consistently been trending up since mid-May and the trends could not be attributed solely to increases in testing, which had been inconsistent and sometimes declining during that period.


There were also 55 new deaths in FL on Monday. That's more than in NY, NJ, and California on that same day, in which there were 47, 52, and 23.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
06-17-2020, 07:02 AM
Floriduh's numbers are way up because they were never accurate in the first place. This state is known for fudging numbers and most of us here knew something was off weeks ago. Aside from that there are undocumented deaths in the state (including children) because there are so many undocumented people. About 6 weeks ago a little girl in my neighborhood died from covid. Then a few days later so did her cousin. But it never made it to the news and we just recently found out why. I do love it here but it is not the state to hold up as a shiny example during a debate.

Here's some recent news about Rebekah Jones the fired data scientist

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

"To me, it did not read like some kind of political conspiracy or some higher directive," Jones says. "It seemed like people who expected when I brought in those results, the results to support the plan they had written, and they did not, they seemed panicked, and like they had to figure out a way to make the results match the plan."

Florida entered Phase 1 of its reopening on May 4, in all counties except Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach. It eased restrictions even further with the start of Phase 2 on June 5 but is now among the more than 20 states where new daily cases are rising. As of Sunday, the state has had more than 73,000 cases and nearly 3,000 deaths.

rickdugan
06-17-2020, 07:24 AM
Floriduh's numbers are way up because they were never accurate in the first place. This state is known for fudging numbers and most of us here knew something was off weeks ago. Aside from that there are undocumented deaths in the state (including children) because there are so many undocumented people. About 6 weeks ago a little girl in my neighborhood died from covid. Then a few days later so did her cousin. But it never made it to the news and we just recently found out why. I do love it here but it is not the state to hold up as a shiny example during a debate.

Two kids dying in a week in close proximity is some groundbreaking stuff. Is there any reason why the county medical examiner did not consider them COVID deaths? Have you reported this to the press?

As far as the rest, you can't just make sweeping statements that the state is fudging numbers without some hard evidence. The Florida site provides those numbers on both a statewide and county by county level. In order for a cover-up to exist, we'd have to have several counties complicit with the state bureaucracy in a massive conspiracy involving easily hundreds of people. Then we'd need a press, which by the way has been digging with all its might to find some issue with the stats, to join in. Idk Phat, but that is rather unlikely IMHO.

And yes we are finding more cases because the state continues to dramatically increase its testing. From many reports I've read, a high percentage of those cases are asymptomatic. Are you seeing something different?

I guess that until I see actual evidence that the state is fudging numbers or an increase in cases that can't be explained by the expanded testing, I'm going to disagree with you. I am very pleased with how DeSantis has handled this, including starting to get people back to work and kids back where they should be, with other kids.

rickdugan
06-17-2020, 07:31 AM
Btw Rebekah Jones is not a scientist. She has the title "Dr." because she has a doctorate in geography. She has no background in epidemiology, biology, or even public health and was fired for believing that her opinion about how to categorize data was more worthy than her superiors, who are actual scientists. This is just more noise by a press looking for anything it can find.

moneybags
06-17-2020, 10:40 PM
Floriduh's numbers are way up because they were never accurate in the first place. This state is known for fudging numbers and most of us here knew something was off weeks ago. Aside from that there are undocumented deaths in the state (including children) because there are so many undocumented people. About 6 weeks ago a little girl in my neighborhood died from covid. Then a few days later so did her cousin. But it never made it to the news and we just recently found out why. I do love it here but it is not the state to hold up as a shiny example during a debate.

Here's some recent news about Rebekah Jones the fired data scientist

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

"To me, it did not read like some kind of political conspiracy or some higher directive," Jones says. "It seemed like people who expected when I brought in those results, the results to support the plan they had written, and they did not, they seemed panicked, and like they had to figure out a way to make the results match the plan."

Florida entered Phase 1 of its reopening on May 4, in all counties except Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach. It eased restrictions even further with the start of Phase 2 on June 5 but is now among the more than 20 states where new daily cases are rising. As of Sunday, the state has had more than 73,000 cases and nearly 3,000 deaths.

I love NPR!

The best predictor of the future is past behavior. Until there’s a vaccine or a really effective treatment things will get worse because the public is not doing what they are suppose to-wear masks and social distancing.

SnuffleUffleGrass
06-18-2020, 04:35 AM
Floriduh's numbers are way up because they were never accurate in the first place. This state is known for fudging numbers and most of us here knew something was off weeks ago. Aside from that there are undocumented deaths in the state (including children) because there are so many undocumented people. About 6 weeks ago a little girl in my neighborhood died from covid. Then a few days later so did her cousin. But it never made it to the news and we just recently found out why. I do love it here but it is not the state to hold up as a shiny example during a debate.

Here's some recent news about Rebekah Jones the fired data scientist

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

"To me, it did not read like some kind of political conspiracy or some higher directive," Jones says. "It seemed like people who expected when I brought in those results, the results to support the plan they had written, and they did not, they seemed panicked, and like they had to figure out a way to make the results match the plan."

Florida entered Phase 1 of its reopening on May 4, in all counties except Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach. It eased restrictions even further with the start of Phase 2 on June 5 but is now among the more than 20 states where new daily cases are rising. As of Sunday, the state has had more than 73,000 cases and nearly 3,000 deaths.


Kind of an anecdotal observation but-


On my visits to Florida I got the impression a lot of people avoid dealing with law enforcement and government-oriented officials. I could easily see people just getting by not understanding they have Covid 19 until it's way too late for them :-\

In my state it's been mostly older/sedentary people who have died from Covid 19. //Just saying.

Eric Stoner
06-18-2020, 09:24 AM
I have yet to see any evidence that hydroxychloroquine is beneficial in any way, to anyone who has been hospitalized for COVID-19, or even exposed to it. I have yet to see you provide any evidence that it is.

From:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19


Florida ordered one million doses of the drug, and they can't even give it away:
https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/06/11/florida-ordered-1-million-doses-of-a-trump-touted-drug-hospitals-didnt-want-it-1292638

Where are all of these doctors that you claim are prescribing it?

Every doctor I HAVE PERSONALLY SPOKEN to about Covid-19 who actually TREATS patients. They are ALL prescribing it. One is a family practicioner ; two are cardiologists ; another is an infectious disease specialist. The so-called "studies" minimizing the benefit of hydroxychloroquine have ALL been discounted and in some cases completely discredited.

Then there are all the TREATING doctors who have gone on ( God Help Us ! ) Fox News and spelled out its uses and successes. None have said it helps everybody or is some sort of cure all. It is A treatment. Not the only one.

lynn2009
06-18-2020, 02:22 PM
Every doctor I HAVE PERSONALLY SPOKEN to about Covid-19 who actually TREATS patients. They are ALL prescribing it. One is a family practicioner ; two are cardiologists ; another is an infectious disease specialist. The so-called "studies" minimizing the benefit of hydroxychloroquine have ALL been discounted and in some cases completely discredited.

Then there are all the TREATING doctors who have gone on ( God Help Us ! ) Fox News and spelled out its uses and successes. None have said it helps everybody or is some sort of cure all. It is A treatment. Not the only one.

FDA just revoked its approval: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-revokes-emergency-use-authorization-chloroquine-and

miss.a.p1600
06-18-2020, 05:58 PM
They mandating masks in public

California

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-18/california-mandatory-face-masks-statewide-order-coronavirus-gavin-newsom

miss.a.p1600
06-18-2020, 06:00 PM
Florida and Texas and Arizona and California and S Carolina now all showing record numbers of cases



Floriduh's numbers are way up because they were never accurate in the first place. This state is known for fudging numbers and most of us here knew something was off weeks ago. Aside from that there are undocumented deaths in the state (including children) because there are so many undocumented people. About 6 weeks ago a little girl in my neighborhood died from covid. Then a few days later so did her cousin. But it never made it to the news and we just recently found out why. I do love it here but it is not the state to hold up as a shiny example during a debate.

Here's some recent news about Rebekah Jones the fired data scientist

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

"To me, it did not read like some kind of political conspiracy or some higher directive," Jones says. "It seemed like people who expected when I brought in those results, the results to support the plan they had written, and they did not, they seemed panicked, and like they had to figure out a way to make the results match the plan."

Florida entered Phase 1 of its reopening on May 4, in all counties except Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach. It eased restrictions even further with the start of Phase 2 on June 5 but is now among the more than 20 states where new daily cases are rising. As of Sunday, the state has had more than 73,000 cases and nearly 3,000 deaths.

chanzep
06-18-2020, 06:06 PM
Yes numbers are very high in my city now and all my neighbour are splashing around in the pool.

moneybags
06-18-2020, 06:44 PM
Yes numbers are very high in my city now and all my neighbour are splashing around in the pool.

Ugh. I’m trying to be less judgmental cause people are just mentally exhausted to the point they don’t care.

I think people are in denial about the severity of the situation. Just like an addict doesn’t change until they hit rock bottom, I keep wondering when America will hit its rock bottom and wake up. The nature of mankind is to wait until it’s too late or at least very, very bad before changing. We unfortunately evolve through suffering. It’d be cool if we could use our rationale minds to make good decisions that benefit everyone, but I think in this case things will get really bad before they get better.

The most important thing is to trust your divine guidance system-intuition-because we are being hella gaslit right now. Even the people who are trying to do the right thing, don’t exactly know what the “right thing” is to do. I’m serious. Listen to your gut and it will tell you exactly what you need to do to survive right now.

lynn2009
06-18-2020, 09:15 PM
Usually I think everyone where I live in a giant baby but I took my dog to a local park for the first time since March today and it was packed. I was shocked, not only a ton of people walking around but big groups playing sports, the fenced in dog park was packed (we didn't go in). I think we're definitely going to be in for a second wave and shutdown.

Selina M
06-18-2020, 10:34 PM
So our governor is letting cities make rules about masks; most promptly said "Yep masks will be mandatory in public". The girls at one of my clubs are flipping shit, "It's not fair, wah wah", trying to find exemptions in the order so they don't have to wear masks.

I hate them, so much. Stop whining. Order a sparkly bejeweled mask on Etsy that matches your outfits. Wear a sexy nurse costume. Make it work. Stop being whiny little bitches and wear a goddamn mask!

eagle2
06-19-2020, 01:06 PM
Florida and Texas and Arizona and California and S Carolina now all showing record numbers of cases

In Florida, new cases have doubled from 1,900 to 3,800 in just one week. I think Florida has more new cases than any other state.

rickdugan
06-19-2020, 02:21 PM
I have some shocking news folks. COVID will be around for some time to come. This may be a surprising to some, but to those who are paying attention it's become quite clear that shutting down has not made it go away. So it goes to figure that increasing social interactions will inevitably trigger additional cases.

And? We couldn't stay shut down forever. The costs of these lockdowns are staggering in terms of lives lost to other illnesses, mental health issues, financial ruin of individuals and businesses, lost jobs and lost education time for millions of children as well as lost once-in-a-lifetime opportunities that they will never get back. Also some states are running out of money, including CA and NY, who essentially had to be starved into re-opening.

I can't speak for the other states with spikes, but now that we've dramatically expanded testing here in FL the average age of those who are testing positive is in the 30s. Most of them didn't even know they had it. Hospitalizations remain under control and death rates are low, primarily because we continue to aggressively protect senior housing.

So we can be melodramatic about each higher than normal testing day, but it doesn't change the realities. Relatively few people here in FL are particularly worried because we are well informed about who this is dangerous to and who is at low risk.

FL is likely not going to shut down again nor should it. We need our kids back in school, our workforce back in the workplace and young people who are at low risk for serious issues to continue living their lives. Some other states have adopted a similar common sense approach. In fact, eventually all states are going to have to embrace this approach because if there even ever is a vaccine it is likely a year or more away.

kamiliam
06-19-2020, 04:21 PM
I have some shocking news folks. COVID will be around for some time to come. This may be a surprising to some, but to those who are paying attention it's become quite clear that shutting down has not made it go away. So it goes to figure that increasing social interactions will inevitably trigger additional cases.

And? We couldn't stay shut down forever. The costs of these lockdowns are staggering in terms of lives lost to other illnesses, mental health issues, financial ruin of individuals and businesses, lost jobs and lost education time for millions of children as well as lost once-in-a-lifetime opportunities that they will never get back. Also some states are running out of money, including CA and NY, who essentially had to be starved into re-opening.

I can't speak for the other states with spikes, but now that we've dramatically expanded testing here in FL the average age of those who are testing positive is in the 30s. Most of them didn't even know they had it. Hospitalizations remain under control and death rates are low, primarily because we continue to aggressively protect senior housing.

So we can be melodramatic about each higher than normal testing day, but it doesn't change the realities. Relatively few people here in FL are particularly worried because we are well informed about who this is dangerous to and who is at low risk.

FL is likely not going to shut down again nor should it. We need our kids back in school, our workforce back in the workplace and young people who are at low risk for serious issues to continue living their lives. Some other states have adopted a similar common sense approach. In fact, eventually all states are going to have to embrace this approach because if there even ever is a vaccine it is likely a year or more away.

I actually don't disagree with much of your post. But assuming all this is true, why aren't people with your POV being the biggest champions for wearing masks? That should be all you are talking about. That will you know help open things up and prove we can contain this.

And maybe certain businesses are done or will completely change because of our new way of life. Bars, restaurants, sporting events, clubs, conventions, and sorry to say (don't kill me) strip clubs. Because in a global economy we will be exposed not only to COVID again but also to continuous spread of diseases.

People who place their economic needs at the top of the pyramid need to be adaptable, not our sick and elderly. The general public does not need to support passe industries just because it hurts a business owner who doesn't want to face reality. We need to restructure this idea of being crowded in together makes us more human. Because none of those businesses are more important then saving lives. Yes there are retirement homes, but there are plenty of people who are at risk who do not live in a home and we need to remember they are a part of our society.

rickdugan
06-19-2020, 07:17 PM
I actually don't disagree with much of your post. But assuming all this is true, why aren't people with your POV being the biggest champions for wearing masks? That should be all you are talking about. That will you know help open things up and prove we can contain this.

And maybe certain businesses are done or will completely change because of our new way of life. Bars, restaurants, sporting events, clubs, conventions, and sorry to say (don't kill me) strip clubs. Because in a global economy we will be exposed not only to COVID again but also to continuous spread of diseases.

People who place their economic needs at the top of the pyramid need to be adaptable, not our sick and elderly. The general public does not need to support passe industries just because it hurts a business owner who doesn't want to face reality. We need to restructure this idea of being crowded in together makes us more human. Because none of those businesses are more important then saving lives. Yes there are retirement homes, but there are plenty of people who are at risk who do not live in a home and we need to remember they are a part of our society.

I fully support anyone who feels the need to be protected from the virus, including the sick and elderly, to wear masks and even gloves if it helps. I think where we run into trouble is in trying to universally impose that upon people who are at very low risk, most especially children. How can you make children feel normal again when they have to wear a face mask to go outside and play with their friends? I won't do that to my children. I can understand the requirement for indoor public venues in areas that have been hard hit, but requiring face masks everywhere, including outdoors, is a little draconian.

But I think you under estimate the importance of those businesses to the economic and even emotional health of the country.

kamiliam
06-19-2020, 07:38 PM
I fully support anyone who feels the need to be protected from the virus, including the sick and elderly, to wear masks and even gloves if it helps. I think where we run into trouble is in trying to universally impose that upon people who are at very low risk, most especially children. How can you make children feel normal again when they have to wear a face mask to go outside and play with their friends? I won't do that to my children. I can understand the requirement for indoor public venues in areas that have been hard hit, but requiring face masks everywhere, including outdoors, is a little draconian.

But I think you under estimate the importance of those businesses to the economic and even emotional health of the country.

Why? Do your children wear clothing? Yeah you may worry about their safety and that is PART of the reason you put clothes on them but it is a requirement for them to wear it if you don't want to be arrested. The kids will understand it just fine. It just takes someone without bias to explain it to them. I don't believe those in countries that often wear masks when sick are scarred from it. Also although deadly cases of covid are rare amongst children I have yet to see a study or even an article state that children aren’t carriers. If you have could you send me a link?

Why are those businesses as they stand today so important? Why can they not change? I never said they shouldn't exist. Do you think we will be having sporting events the same way in 50 years? Things are already changing from a world you grew up in. You are not the future. Why can't they show how essential they are by progressing? You can look at restaurants everywhere else but N America to see how hard they are trying to stay compliant and with the times. Yeah it may take money for those modifications, but that is the cost of operating a business. Just like insurance, rent, employees, taxes. It would also be similar to having to be in compliance with the liquor board, the health inspectors etc, fire codes. If you are not maintaining standard of safety you are not entitled to stay in business. If you believe those rules are all draconian then say so. otherwise it is not out of a government's reach to mandate face coverings.

I understand where you are coming from, but logically those arguments have a number of holes. You can't use "Change is annoying" for the reason you don't evolve.

moneybags
06-19-2020, 07:55 PM
I wish our government had a better plan like making everyone have a recent COVID negative test or something before they can go party.

rickdugan
06-19-2020, 08:34 PM
Why? Do your children wear clothing? Yeah you may worry about their safety and that is PART of the reason you put clothes on them but it is a requirement for them to wear it if you don't want to be arrested. The kids will understand it just fine. It just takes someone without bias to explain it to them. I don't believe those in countries that often wear masks when sick are scarred from it. Also although deadly cases of covid are rare amongst children I have yet to see a study or even an article state that children aren’t carriers. If you have could you send me a link?

Why are those businesses as they stand today so important? Why can they not change? I never said they shouldn't exist. Do you think we will be having sporting events the same way in 50 years? Things are already changing from a world you grew up in. You are not the future. Why can't they show how essential they are by progressing? You can look at restaurants everywhere else but N America to see how hard they are trying to stay compliant and with the times. Yeah it may take money for those modifications, but that is the cost of operating a business. Just like insurance, rent, employees, taxes. It would also be similar to having to be in compliance with the liquor board, the health inspectors etc, fire codes. If you are not maintaining standard of safety you are not entitled to stay in business. If you believe those rules are all draconian then say so. otherwise it is not out of a government's reach to mandate face coverings.

I understand where you are coming from, but logically those arguments have a number of holes. You can't use "Change is annoying" for the reason you don't evolve.

Do you have kids? I have 3. Have you ever tried to send them out to run around in 90 degree weather with masks on their faces? Heck our schools aren't going to even try to enforce masks because of the pointlessness of trying to do so.

As far as your thoughts on sporting events and bars, we shall see, but I don't think that most sports fans or bar patrons are as worried about it as you are. Anything is possible, but between the economics, which require fan butts in seats, and the desire of those fans to be there, I doubt that COVID is going to be some industry altering impetus. The country has lived through virus scares before and this won't be the last. We might go through a season with limited to no attendance, but by the 2021 sports seasons we will likely be back to normal.

kamiliam
06-19-2020, 10:37 PM
I am around/communicate with children often. I have had full fledged convos about how they are feeling about the whole situation. They don’t love not going to school or seeing their friends, but they understand why. They are kind of rolling with it. We talked about masks and they seem to understand common sense of when they are needed. Just to point out your reality isn’t everyone’s. Where I live there isn’t really AC so kids would prefer to just be outside in the summer and a mask would be a minor inconvenience rather then being stuck inside, schools are also requiring face masks next year.

I hope there isn’t a full blown second wave. I could also hope that we won’t face another pandemic that threatens our normal. I have very little hope in that, and the American people have shown that they will not voluntarily step up to inconvenience ourselves to mitigate future situations.

The tone of your first post I responded to was that we would need to adjust to the idea that this is the new normal. I agree with that, however that doesn’t mean we sit back and twiddle our thumbs about how we deal with a spread of a virus. You mention the people who go to events not caring as much as I do. That maybe true, but I care very little about what they want, and it doesn’t matter because Bob from down the street doesn’t decide how we deal with a pandemic. Maybe indirectly at a very local level, but the experts who actually make these decisions( often at the state level without worldwide pressure) will not care about about Bob either. So shouldn’t Bob and his buddies be doing everything they can to maintain their all important normalcy?

eagle2
06-20-2020, 02:58 PM
I fully support anyone who feels the need to be protected from the virus, including the sick and elderly, to wear masks and even gloves if it helps. I think where we run into trouble is in trying to universally impose that upon people who are at very low risk, most especially children. How can you make children feel normal again when they have to wear a face mask to go outside and play with their friends? I won't do that to my children. I can understand the requirement for indoor public venues in areas that have been hard hit, but requiring face masks everywhere, including outdoors, is a little draconian.

But I think you under estimate the importance of those businesses to the economic and even emotional health of the country.

The purpose of masks isn't just to protect the person wearing one. It's also to protect others in close proximity. Most masks aren't 100% effective, and a person in a high-risk group wearing a mask, is far less likely to catch the virus if the people around that person are wearing masks also. Some people may consider wearing a mask to be an inconvenience, but for others, it could be a matter of life and death.

rickdugan
06-20-2020, 07:06 PM
The problem is that many folks are no longer buying the melodramatic "it's a matter of life or death" squeals, especially those in places that were not very hard hit by deaths. Now it's pretty easy to convince people to wear them when they are in large public gatherings with elderly, but otherwise it's becoming an increasingly tough sell, even in places like the northeast. Especially outdoors, where we now know that the risk of transmission is extremely low unless you're packing yourself body to body in a city center for some reason or another.

As far as the kids go, you can have all the intellectual conversations with them that you want, but until you run them outdoors or take them to a pool you don't understand the realities of actual compliance. It's just not going to happen. Speaking from experience, we can manage to keep them in a mask for a short time at church, but anything beyond that is impossible. See how quickly those masks come off when kids are biking down the street, or how likely it is to have them throw one back on when they jump out of a pool. Again, this is why school administrators here don't intend to even try and good luck to the wunderkinds trying to pull it off in any elementary school setting pretty much anywhere else. It's simply ridiculous.

If the want to protect the elderly, the only sure way is to make sure that they have the necessary PPE to protect themselves. I am all in favor, for example, of using Social Security Administration records to send PPE to every person receiving Social Security or Medicare benefits. This would allow these folks to protect themselves instead of continuing to push standards that are unlikely to be met in most places.

Who these infections hit is far more important than how many there are. The reason we are not seeing spikes in hospitalizations here in Florida, despite the recent jumps in cases, is because the average age of the newly positive is 33. Shit most of them were asymptomatic. So let's enhance protection for the elderly and let everyone else get back to their lives, which frankly is the approach we should have considered 3 months ago before these disastrous lockdowns were implemented.

kamiliam
06-20-2020, 08:20 PM
The problem is that many folks are no longer buying the melodramatic "it's a matter of life or death" squeals, especially those in places that were not very hard hit by deaths. Now it's pretty easy to convince people to wear them when they are in large public gatherings with elderly, but otherwise it's becoming an increasingly tough sell, even in places like the northeast. Especially outdoors, where we now know that the risk of transmission is extremely low unless you're packing yourself body to body in a city center for some reason or another.

As far as the kids go, you can have all the intellectual conversations with them that you want, but until you run them outdoors or take them to a pool you don't understand the realities of actual compliance. It's just not going to happen. Speaking from experience, we can manage to keep them in a mask for a short time at church, but anything beyond that is impossible. See how quickly those masks come off when kids are biking down the street, or how likely it is to have them throw one back on when they jump out of a pool. Again, this is why school administrators here don't intend to even try and good luck to the wunderkinds trying to pull it off in any elementary school setting pretty much anywhere else. It's simply ridiculous.

If the want to protect the elderly, the only sure way is to make sure that they have the necessary PPE to protect themselves. I am all in favor, for example, of using Social Security Administration records to send PPE to every person receiving Social Security or Medicare benefits. This would allow these folks to protect themselves instead of continuing to push standards that are unlikely to be met in most places.

Who these infections hit is far more important than how many there are. The reason we are not seeing spikes in hospitalizations here in Florida, despite the recent jumps in cases, is because the average age of the newly positive is 33. Shit most of them were asymptomatic. So let's enhance protection for the elderly and let everyone else get back to their lives, which frankly is the approach we should have considered 3 months ago before these disastrous lockdowns were implemented.

Part of protecting the elderly is you and your family wearing masks whenever you are in contact with groups of people. Even if the young are experiencing lesser symptoms they are still contagious and increase the chances of another outbreak, which if large could jeopardize our economy even further. This is science. Without a vaccine all we have is wearing masks and basic hygiene. I want everyone who feels safe to go back to work even though for my job people being stuck at home has worked to MY advantage.

The lockdown saved millions of lives.

Every child is different but I respect your observations and I know what mine are. That's all I will say because you are entitled to frame this however you want for yourself and your family.

https://www.businessinsider.com/can-children-spread-the-coronavirus-to-others-evidence-2020-5 (Note not a definitive answer but some insights)

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/09/872441984/modelers-suggest-pandemic-lockdowns-saved-millions-from-dying-of-covid-19

https://time.com/5838751/globalization-coronavirus/

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/03/what-really-doomed-americas-coronavirus-response/608596/

in case anyone was curious.

rickdugan
06-20-2020, 11:16 PM
Kam, I've read at least as many articles as you have on COVID and possibly more. Nobody knows how many lives the lockdowns really saved, but millions is rather absurd speculation given the "science" as we now understand it. FL's "lockdown" was as soft as you could imagine and we've been in opening phases for 7 weeks now. Total FL deaths = 3,144, in a state of 22 million people, including 5 million elderly. I think you may need to find better "science." In fact, the only reason that so many people died in NY, NJ and CT is that the morons in charge were sending contagious people back to nursing homes, which account for 50%+ of their deaths.

Floridians are, on the whole, quite well versed in COVID issues now. We know that this kills mostly the very elderly - the average mortality age is 80 here. We know that we have not had a single reported death under 18 years of age. We know that the CDC now considers outdoor transmission highly unlikely and virtually impossible in chlorinated pools. Finally, given our experiences and all of the other inputs coming in, it's becoming increasingly clear that this virus is far less deadly than many panicky scientists originally thought.

So when you ask people who see these things to live in conditions reminiscent of those during the Spanish flu, which was deadly to all, when much of this is becoming increasingly clear, you're going to face pushback. As more people in states like CA and NY, with much less forthcoming elected officials than our Governor, continue to see the picture more clearly, you can expect that pushback to continue to grow.

SnuffleUffleGrass
06-21-2020, 04:30 AM
It's been made abundantly clear that Quarantine was intended to stop a surge of patients who would need ventilators to survive from flooding hospitals.

On behalf of the medical community, I'm facepalming at the level of nonchalance about Covid 19. Really people, medical science is trying to help you right now.

Kylie8585
06-21-2020, 10:16 AM
It's been made abundantly clear that Quarantine was intended to stop a surge of patients who would need ventilators to survive from flooding hospitals.

On behalf of the medical community, I'm facepalming at the level of nonchalance about Covid 19. Really people, medical science is trying to help you right now.

amen girl!

eagle2
06-21-2020, 01:29 PM
The problem is that many folks are no longer buying the melodramatic "it's a matter of life or death" squeals, especially those in places that were not very hard hit by deaths.

This attitude is the reason why the US has over 120,000 deaths, more than any other country, and why we're still seeing the number of cases increasing in about half the states, while it's plummeting in other western countries. The US has over 18,000 new cases. Italy has 224, Spain 334, and France has 284.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

rickdugan
06-21-2020, 03:42 PM
It's been made abundantly clear that Quarantine was intended to stop a surge of patients who would need ventilators to survive from flooding hospitals.

On behalf of the medical community, I'm facepalming at the level of nonchalance about Covid 19. Really people, medical science is trying to help you right now.

Snuff, with all due respect for whatever you do for a living, you don't speak for the entire medical community. You speak for yourself. There are increasingly divergent views in the medical community about the best way to manage this moving forward.

rickdugan
06-21-2020, 03:54 PM
This attitude is the reason why the US has over 120,000 deaths, more than any other country, and why we're still seeing the number of cases increasing in about half the states, while it's plummeting in other western countries. The US has over 18,000 new cases. Italy has 224, Spain 334, and France has 284.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

No eagle, we have 120,000 deaths because of a kinda' bad virus. Any notion that we can ever control the behaviors and decisions of 330 million diverse people spread across a vast country like the U.S. is asinine. Many of the people who died probably could have protected themselves better but didn't, excluding of course the tens of thousands of helpless nursing home victims courtesy of the gross negligence of NY, NJ and CT.

Yes we have more cases here in FL, but much of that is coming from increased testing, though positivity rates are once again going up. But relatively few people here give a shit anymore because the new positives are overwhelmingly young and, with the exception of Miami, hospitalizations are not rising much.

So now it's time to further protect the elderly, from themselves if necessary, so that the rest of us can keep on living, including our children.

kamiliam
06-21-2020, 04:12 PM
Hey Ricky. I have been real chill but I just wanted to remind you or tell you if you never saw my post on the subject. I lost people to this so maybe while you are trying to push a political agenda on a non political issue you can think about how Your denial and victim blaming come off. Seriously you aren’t proving the point you think you are.

I am not here to fight and you obviously love having the last word so I will let you have it but "Many of the people who died probably could have protected themselves better but didn't," is the epitome of victim blaming

miss.a.p1600
06-21-2020, 04:37 PM
It's been made abundantly clear that Quarantine was intended to stop a surge of patients who would need ventilators to survive from flooding hospitals.

On behalf of the medical community, I'm facepalming at the level of nonchalance about Covid 19. Really people, medical science is trying to help you right now.


I don’t think people who are nonchalant about it will take it seriously until they catch it and feel like hell or till someone close to them dies.

Even then, some people that have that “I’m invincible” n “I could care less about strangers health”

I had to meet with a prospective client in person and when I pulled out my mask and bleach wipes they were looking all perplexed and possibly reason we won’t be doing business. Oh well. Mfs ain’t trying to sue me, I’m going protect myself from people who might not be as diligent about healthcare during this time.

rickdugan
06-21-2020, 04:39 PM
Hey Ricky. I have been real chill but I just wanted to remind you or tell you if you never saw my post on the subject. I lost people to this so maybe while you are trying to push a political agenda on a non political issue you can think about how Your denial and victim blaming come off. Seriously you aren’t proving the point you think you are.

I am truly sorry for your loss, but you behaving "chill" on this board is expected regardless. It also doesn't justify the grabbing of labels (victim blaming, political agenda) to characterize an opposing position. I've made my positions, and the various inputs that led to them, crystal clear. We all have stakes in this, whether we lost someone or not. Mine include providing for 3 young children, furthering their education and enabling them to pursue a strong quality of life, which is why I feel so strongly about this.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
06-21-2020, 04:52 PM
Hey Ricky. I have been real chill but I just wanted to remind you or tell you if you never saw my post on the subject. I lost people to this so maybe while you are trying to push a political agenda on a non political issue you can think about how Your denial and victim blaming come off. Seriously you aren’t proving the point you think you are.

I am not here to fight and you obviously love having the last word so I will let you have it but "Many of the people who died probably could have protected themselves better but didn't," is the epitome of victim blaming

I didn't realize that you had lost people to covid and I'm truly sorry to hear this. How are you and your family managing all of this?

kamiliam
06-21-2020, 05:06 PM
Thank you for that. They both happened in the beginning before most stay at home orders. One was my very elderly grandma so the death itself was expected. It was hard to not be able to say goodbye though, she hadn’t left her house for months before they took her to the hospital. Her at home aid also contracted it but survived. She had a wonderful life.

The other was a friend who was doing all he could to stay safe but others in his household didn’t take it seriously. That one has been harder to accept. He did have a pre existing condition which is why he was bunkered down. As more evidence comes out it may have nothing to do with him dying but we will need to learn more. Regardless many people have conditions that had them living healthy lives before this and it wasn’t his fault. That why it is a societal issue not a personal responsibility issue.

PhatGirlDynomite!!!
06-21-2020, 05:30 PM
Thank you for that. They both happened in the beginning before most stay at home orders. One was my very elderly grandma so the death itself was expected. It was hard to not be able to say goodbye though, she hadn’t left her house for months before they took her to the hospital. Her at home aid also contracted it but survived. She had a wonderful life.

The other was a friend who was doing all he could to stay safe but others in his household didn’t take it seriously. That one has been harder to accept. He did have a pre existing condition which is why he was bunkered down. As more evidence comes out it may have nothing to do with him dying but we will need to learn more. Regardless many people have conditions that had them living healthy lives before this and it wasn’t his fault. That why it is a societal issue not a personal responsibility issue.

I am so sorry. And you're right it's not their faults that they died. It's disturbing to see how inconsiderate some people are being during this time. However, I am seeing lots of kindness but mostly it's through real life interactions that unfortunately have to be limited. I haven't lost anyone close to me yet but it's still a major concern of mine. So far the deaths that I know of are old co-workers and neighbors. A few friends have lost relatives but I can't console them like I would have a year ago because of the risk. I have family members that I worry that I may not get to hug them again. It's really difficult sometimes and I hope that more people will start using more compassion when they interact with others.