View Full Version : Visa & Mastercard just announced they're dropping PornHub
JustMilfnAround
12-12-2020, 06:38 AM
I agree. In the adult webcam site business model free chat should be completely eliminated. Adult webcam site visitors need to be conditioned to spending money. I believe that only paid chat should exist. Even if the customer is only spending $0.25, $0.50 or $1.00 per message. Models/performers need to be compensated for ALL interaction with customers whether it is email messages, chat messages, sexting, phone calls, cam shows, etc. We need to demand this compensation. Work without pay is exploitation. This needs to stop NOW within our industry. It is shameful.
I see where you are coming from, I personally think the "freemium" sites need to go down. CB hogs a LOT of camming traffic and it is because these guys can watch for free. If it is free, why pay for it? 20K guys in a room just watching and not paying.... I did CB for a year, and hated every damn minute of it. 300-400 guys staring - 1 or 2 dudes tipping. It helped me transition out of my main site which was nice, but I hated the "freemium" aspect of it.
I think camming would BOOM like a MOFO if they would make EVERYTHING "pay to play". If they were to do that, can you imagine how lucrative group shows/getting to a goal would be? Also, models wouldn't be able to give anything away for free and it would boil down to personality/sales ability. We wouldn't be having to compete with model shoving the cam in her pussy for free and can actually earn based on skill and providing quality interactions/content.
sexysusie
12-12-2020, 10:09 AM
This is going to sound like such an insanely ignorant question, but I'm still less than 2 years into this so it's the first time I'll have seen anything major like this happen in the industry. I know a bit about SESTA/FOSTA but that's it.
So I can see why we clearly need to be concerned and maybe even vigilant, with what's going. But should we literally be shitting ourselves and preparing for online sex work to just go completely down the drain and lose our jobs in the next year or near future??
I'm gaining a helpful, rational sort of insight here on SW, but then I'm logging into Twitter and there's so much scaremongering it's insanity. People are calling that 2021 is going to be hell for online sex workers, people telling us we should be terrified, insinuating we're going to lose our jobs, our entire incomes, sites are all going to shut down, and that we're basically about to be left to rot lol!!! I'm seeing full blown adult workers saying they're planning to take their careers into the vanilla spectrum etc and suggesting we should start planning to do the same!
I don't know if I'm just being naive and a bit ignorant because I'm still fairly new to the industry, or whether there is actually solid basis behind what people are saying?? I feel a bit silly even writing this but honestly, it got me SO stressed out reading stuff on Twitter earlier and I started to panick. Obviously as self employed people, we should prepare for the future and potential mishaps, but should we literally be planning and preparing for the absolute worst of the worst case scenarios right now???
They do this every time there's the remotest connected issue. No sex work online won't be going anywhere. Things like overtly sexual conduct in free chat will probably be tightened up, as Cutie101 says is already in place on livejasmin now and CB and MFC look to follow suit. But as always we will adapt to any changes and new payment methods, new sites, will come along to replace any that go down.
As PGD keeps saying though, we should ALL be working towards our OWN hub or site, a place no one can take from us. Because then any changes that come or go won't be a major stress.
MissAdriana
12-12-2020, 12:32 PM
Chaturbate better clean up their fucking act otherwise they are going to go down with this ship as well.
Girllll thats so wrong what they did to you fuck them. Stripchat better watch the F out too !
CatBBW
12-12-2020, 12:45 PM
Working on Clips4Sale today (plus having read the latest on the C4S thread), they've deleted some categories.
The ones noticed so far: Limping, Limp Fetish, Napping, Resting, Damsel in Distress, Daddy's Girl, Momma's Boy... all gone.
EDIT: Abused Shoes also gone.
anonamiss
12-12-2020, 01:07 PM
I agree. In the adult webcam site business model free chat should be completely eliminated. Adult webcam site visitors need to be conditioned to spending money. I believe that only paid chat should exist. Even if the customer is only spending $0.25, $0.50 or $1.00 per message. Models/performers need to be compensated for ALL interaction with customers whether it is email messages, chat messages, sexting, phone calls, cam shows, etc. We need to demand this compensation. Work without pay is exploitation. This needs to stop NOW within our industry. It is shameful.
i actually super disagree with this. i have always thought that above all else, cammodels are salespeople. i believe it's inaccurate to simply refer to us under the blanket of "performers" because it's not like we have designated scripts or scenes we're acting out for an audience who has already paid. bottom line is we are the ones who have to sell ourselves, and that is what we signed on for. if you get rid of free chat altogether, how can you expect anyone to willingly commit to paying you if they haven't been pitched the product yet, so to speak? i can't fathom that very many guys would be down to pay for each message and otherwise go in blind when interracting with a cammodel. what you're suggesting is equivalent to saying that a commission-based salesperson should also be paid for any and all interactions they make with the public regardless of if they make a sale. that's not how it works.
i know there at least used to be a few sites that don't have free chat, honestly not sure if that is still the case because i haven't seeked them out. my point is, i believe it should be an option, not a requirement. if you hate it that much or truly feel like you're being "exploited" by having to be in free chat, then you should have the *choice* to work on PPV-only sites, or go indie. but i absolutely do not support the notion of getting rid of free chat altogether. i would not have garnered the regulars or specific types of customers i have if it weren't for my free chat hustle style. just look at some of the top MFC girls. there are plenty over there who make a killing without ever getting nude or doing private shows; their success never would have happened without free chat.
SoloDesire
12-12-2020, 01:16 PM
i actually super disagree with this. i have always thought that above all else, cammodels are salespeople. i believe it's inaccurate to simply refer to us under the blanket of "performers" because it's not like we have designated scripts or scenes we're acting out for an audience who has already paid. bottom line is we are the ones who have to sell ourselves, and that is what we signed on for. if you get rid of free chat altogether, how can you expect anyone to willingly commit to paying you if they haven't been pitched the product yet, so to speak? i can't fathom that very many guys would be down to pay for each message and otherwise go in blind when interracting with a cammodel. what you're suggesting is equivalent to saying that a commission-based salesperson should also be paid for any and all interactions they make with the public regardless of if they make a sale. that's not how it works.
i know there at least used to be a few sites that don't have free chat, honestly not sure if that is still the case because i haven't seeked them out. my point is, i believe it should be an option, not a requirement. if you hate it that much or truly feel like you're being "exploited" by having to be in free chat, then you should have the *choice* to work on PPV-only sites, or go indie. but i absolutely do not support the notion of getting rid of free chat altogether. i would not have garnered the regulars or specific types of customers i have if it weren't for my free chat hustle style. just look at some of the top MFC girls. there are plenty over there who make a killing without ever getting nude or doing private shows; their success never would have happened without free chat.
Yes, things have changed so much over the years of cam sites. Guys expect free chat now, but that's not how it used to be. There never used to be free chat and they still spent money (more than they do now) and bought shows without that sales pitch. They just went through profiles and took a chance on women they found appealing. I don't think we'll ever be able to back track to that again, but those were the good old days for sure lol.
sexysusie
12-12-2020, 01:17 PM
Adultwork and Niteflirt both do perfectly well without free chat (although you can do it on AW if you want)
anonamiss
12-12-2020, 01:21 PM
I think camming would BOOM like a MOFO if they would make EVERYTHING "pay to play". If they were to do that, can you imagine how lucrative group shows/getting to a goal would be? Also, models wouldn't be able to give anything away for free and it would boil down to personality/sales ability. We wouldn't be having to compete with model shoving the cam in her pussy for free and can actually earn based on skill and providing quality interactions/content.
this is why I'm on SM and not token sites. SM is effectively "pay to play" because you aren't allowed to do much in free chat, but can still use free chat to your advantage (with personality and sales ability, like you said.)
i do wonder if this whole situation could lead to sites banning tip vibes and being topless in free chat, as both could arguably be seen as being too sexual for not being behind a paywall.
CatBBW
12-12-2020, 01:34 PM
Working on Clips4Sale today (plus having read the latest on the C4S thread), they've deleted some categories.
The ones noticed so far: Limping, Limp Fetish, Napping, Resting, Damsel in Distress, Daddy's Girl, Momma's Boy... all gone.
EDIT: Abused Shoes also gone.
Just FYI though - the categories have been deleted but the clips haven't. The clips will still be found by a search (at the present time).
anonamiss
12-12-2020, 01:36 PM
Adultwork and Niteflirt both do perfectly well without free chat (although you can do it on AW if you want)
right, that's great. sounds like AW gives you the option to have free chat or not, which I totally support if other cam sites want to adopt that model. i didn't mean to imply that not having free chat doesn't work at all; clearly the customers on those sites know what to expect. but you can't just do a sweeping change of all the other sites and expect guys to adapt to not having free chat anymore.
the thing I don't like about pay-only sites is I assume it mostly attracts the type of customers who want a really specific thing based on a preset list of what you offer on your profile, since they can't see you live until they pay to take you private. i've never run my shows in that "a la carte sex act" kind of way. i am very much a personality and conversation-centric model and i actually like using free chat as a filter for finding customers that i like and want to put more energy into. i hate the idea of a random person just popping into my private chat and expecting a show.
Nikki_Fox
12-12-2020, 03:19 PM
There's a difference between free "chatting" and banging all your holes in free "chat"
- Totally not trying to disparage anyone who works those sites - I just hate knowing these dudes are stroking for free............... everyone should pay :)
anonamiss
12-12-2020, 03:23 PM
There's a difference between free "chatting" and banging all your holes in free "chat"
- Totally not trying to disparage anyone who works those sites - I just hate knowing these dudes are stroking for free............... everyone should pay :)
i agree -- in fact that's a great way to sum up what i was getting at. free chat should exist, for *chatting.* explicit stuff goes behind the paywall, period.
EricaErotica
12-12-2020, 03:38 PM
It seems like you are misunderstanding my comment. If you have never worked as a human resources professional (worked in HR for 5 years) or have never studied economics (everyone in my family and hubby's family is either an accountant, economist, or banker) you do not understand the mathematical principles on how the compensation of labor needs to correlate with the exchange of goods and services (something of value) for an enterprise not to fall into being labeled exploitation. You speak of commission based sales. One reason why only commission based sales works in an industry such as let's say car sales or real estate is because a worker's uncompensated labor does not directly lead to the consumer acquiring the good or service being sold (something of value). In these industries, a sales person can spend all day talking to a prospect, but until the actual sales transaction takes place, the consumer is not going to walk away with anything of value. This is not the case with webcam. In webcam you can talk to prospects all day via free chat and MANY customers will end up with something of value (sexual gratification). If this is the case, yes you are being exploited and in ANY traditional work place setting this "transfer of a valuable service" from the worker to the consumer would constitute grounds for the worker's need to be compensated. Somehow in the world of webcam this form of exploitation is encouraged.
i actually super disagree with this. i have always thought that above all else, cammodels are salespeople. i believe it's inaccurate to simply refer to us under the blanket of "performers" because it's not like we have designated scripts or scenes we're acting out for an audience who has already paid. bottom line is we are the ones who have to sell ourselves, and that is what we signed on for. if you get rid of free chat altogether, how can you expect anyone to willingly commit to paying you if they haven't been pitched the product yet, so to speak? i can't fathom that very many guys would be down to pay for each message and otherwise go in blind when interracting with a cammodel. what you're suggesting is equivalent to saying that a commission-based salesperson should also be paid for any and all interactions they make with the public regardless of if they make a sale. that's not how it works.
i know there at least used to be a few sites that don't have free chat, honestly not sure if that is still the case because i haven't seeked them out. my point is, i believe it should be an option, not a requirement. if you hate it that much or truly feel like you're being "exploited" by having to be in free chat, then you should have the *choice* to work on PPV-only sites, or go indie. but i absolutely do not support the notion of getting rid of free chat altogether. i would not have garnered the regulars or specific types of customers i have if it weren't for my free chat hustle style. just look at some of the top MFC girls. there are plenty over there who make a killing without ever getting nude or doing private shows; their success never would have happened without free chat.
SoloDesire
12-12-2020, 03:47 PM
It seems like you are misunderstanding my comment. If you have never worked as a human resources professional (worked in HR for 5 years) or have never studied economics (everyone in my family and hubby's family is either an accountant, economist, or banker) you do not understand the mathematical principles on how the compensation of labor needs to correlate with the exchange of goods and services (something of value) for an enterprise not to fall into being labeled exploitation. You speak of commission based sales. One reason why only commission based sales works in an industry such as let's say car sales or real estate is because a worker's uncompensated labor does not directly lead to the consumer acquiring the good or service being sold (something of value). In these industries, a sales person can spend all day talking to a prospect, but until the actual sales transaction takes place, the consumer is not going to walk away with anything of value. This is not the case with webcam. In webcam you can talk to prospects all day via free chat and MANY customers will end up with something of value (sexual gratification). If this is the case, yes you are being exploited and in ANY traditional work place setting this "transaction of a valuable service" would constitute grounds for the workers need to be compensated. Somehow in the world of webcam this form of exploitation is encouraged.
Very well said! This is how I feel as well...which is why I never use audio in free chat nor do I conversate until they are paying. I have a set script to get them in paid chat or to tip and after that they get ignored. No free attention, no free anything in my room. I appreciate the way you laid this out, it's exactly the way I feel about camming.
https://media.giphy.com/media/fnK0jeA8vIh2QLq3IZ/giphy.gif
CatBBW
12-12-2020, 03:55 PM
i actually super disagree with this. i have always thought that above all else, cammodels are salespeople. i believe it's inaccurate to simply refer to us under the blanket of "performers" because it's not like we have designated scripts or scenes we're acting out for an audience who has already paid. bottom line is we are the ones who have to sell ourselves, and that is what we signed on for. if you get rid of free chat altogether, how can you expect anyone to willingly commit to paying you if they haven't been pitched the product yet, so to speak? i can't fathom that very many guys would be down to pay for each message and otherwise go in blind when interracting with a cammodel. what you're suggesting is equivalent to saying that a commission-based salesperson should also be paid for any and all interactions they make with the public regardless of if they make a sale. that's not how it works.
i know there at least used to be a few sites that don't have free chat, honestly not sure if that is still the case because i haven't seeked them out. my point is, i believe it (freechat) should be an option, not a requirement. if you hate it that much or truly feel like you're being "exploited" by having to be in free chat, then you should have the *choice* to work on PPV-only sites, or go indie. but i absolutely do not support the notion of getting rid of free chat altogether. i would not have garnered the regulars or specific types of customers i have if it weren't for my free chat hustle style. just look at some of the top MFC girls. there are plenty over there who make a killing without ever getting nude or doing private shows; their success never would have happened without free chat.
I agree with most of this, specifically the bits I have bolded.
I also think that most (if not all) cam (and possibly fan?) sites should have the option for a performer to switch Freechat OFF if they want. We should be able to choose to sit in Free if we want, or choose to NOT offer Free and just be available for Group/Private/Exclusive sessions if we want.
ALL cam sites (without exception) should be Zero Nude in Freechat. Tease and implied nude and all the other hustles similar should be allowed, but pink and brown and erections and penetration etc should NEVER be allowed/acceptable in Free.
sexysusie
12-12-2020, 04:20 PM
It seems like you are misunderstanding my comment. If you have never worked as a human resources professional (worked in HR for 5 years) or have never studied economics (everyone in my family and hubby's family is either an accountant, economist, or banker) you do not understand the mathematical principles on how the compensation of labor needs to correlate with the exchange of goods and services (something of value) for an enterprise not to fall into being labeled exploitation. You speak of commission based sales. One reason why only commission based sales works in an industry such as let's say car sales or real estate is because a worker's uncompensated labor does not directly lead to the consumer acquiring the good or service being sold (something of value). In these industries, a sales person can spend all day talking to a prospect, but until the actual sales transaction takes place, the consumer is not going to walk away with anything of value. This is not the case with webcam. In webcam you can talk to prospects all day via free chat and MANY customers will end up with something of value (sexual gratification). If this is the case, yes you are being exploited and in ANY traditional work place setting this "transfer of a valuable service" from the worker to the consumer would constitute grounds for the worker's need to be compensated. Somehow in the world of webcam this form of exploitation is encouraged.
I worked in a massive blue chip top 100 sales co for years before finding cam (yes I'm old!) First on the phones then field sales, where the bulk of my income was from comission. I became expert at closing big deals within a day. I very quickly realised that 'free chat' on cam sites was absolutely not worth it for most models. Yes it can work to give you a little exposure, and some models prefer that atmosphere as it's a bit more social (in the case of these models they probably do make more sales, a bit like strippers working the club floor). But in general free chat sites like Chaturbate are 90% freeloaders. It is FAR far more lucrative for a model to expend energy maximising current customers and expanding marketing into areas which are known to work like their own blog/site, paid advertising, and networking with bigger fish. If a guy is going to pay (pay anything worthwhile), he is fully able to decide within a short time. Literally the only bonus to free chat is for models who prefer that atmosphere.
I don't think getting rid of free chat altogether will ever happen. Sites prefer a 'shop window' to draw the traffic. Also it would be unfair to take it away from models who like doing it, they'd probably be bored as hell (unlike me). But I fully support the removal of all sexualised conduct or chat in free.
kamiliam
12-12-2020, 04:27 PM
It seems like you are misunderstanding my comment. If you have never worked as a human resources professional (worked in HR for 5 years) or have never studied economics (everyone in my family and hubby's family is either an accountant, economist, or banker) you do not understand the mathematical principles on how the compensation of labor needs to correlate with the exchange of goods and services (something of value) for an enterprise not to fall into being labeled exploitation. You speak of commission based sales. One reason why only commission based sales works in an industry such as let's say car sales or real estate is because a worker's uncompensated labor does not directly lead to the consumer acquiring the good or service being sold (something of value). In these industries, a sales person can spend all day talking to a prospect, but until the actual sales transaction takes place, the consumer is not going to walk away with anything of value. This is not the case with webcam. In webcam you can talk to prospects all day via free chat and MANY customers will end up with something of value (sexual gratification). If this is the case, yes you are being exploited and in ANY traditional work place setting this "transfer of a valuable service" from the worker to the consumer would constitute grounds for the worker's need to be compensated. Somehow in the world of webcam this form of exploitation is encouraged.
Also former HR professional, and fully 2nd this post. Just wanted to offer that for some the difference is that the adult industry has unique advantages and disadvantages based on the taboo. Outside labor theories are hard to use on those that are by nature closed off to outsiders. The unique issue is that we use our sexuality and physical body which in my opinion is ours to exploit as we see fit as long as no laws are broken. What is an acceptable amount of free labor is connected to culture and where we are at in our terms of sexuality, I really don't see the younger generations jumping into paid chat without an excess of free material available to help them make their choice. Which then as mentions makes them have much greater control of our services offered and obligation to do a preset show with little interaction beforehand.
I have a ton more freedom in terms of my choices, schedule, attire, attitude, work ethic, and priorities that often becomes wage exploitation in typical corporate environments. I would rather look cute in freechat and online shop then deal with that again.
anonamiss
12-12-2020, 05:31 PM
It seems like you are misunderstanding my comment. If you have never worked as a human resources professional (worked in HR for 5 years) or have never studied economics (everyone in my family and hubby's family is either an accountant, economist, or banker) you do not understand the mathematical principles on how the compensation of labor needs to correlate with the exchange of goods and services (something of value) for an enterprise not to fall into being labeled exploitation. You speak of commission based sales. One reason why only commission based sales works in an industry such as let's say car sales or real estate is because a worker's uncompensated labor does not directly lead to the consumer acquiring the good or service being sold (something of value). In these industries, a sales person can spend all day talking to a prospect, but until the actual sales transaction takes place, the consumer is not going to walk away with anything of value. This is not the case with webcam. In webcam you can talk to prospects all day via free chat and MANY customers will end up with something of value (sexual gratification). If this is the case, yes you are being exploited and in ANY traditional work place setting this "transfer of a valuable service" from the worker to the consumer would constitute grounds for the worker's need to be compensated. Somehow in the world of webcam this form of exploitation is encouraged.
This is a reasonable take. And I didn't misunderstand it, I just disagree with it. You and others here seem to believe that all cam-related emotional labor (i.e. any form of communication/action that could lead to the customer feeling gratified) should be compensated, which is a very difficult (if not impossible/unrealistic) thing to quantify and put a price tag on. I understood that this job requires a lot of potentially uncompensated labor (be it emotional, physical, or psychological labor) when I got into it, so I expect it and accept it. If you don't, that's fine (and you can adjust your hustle/require payment for everything as you see fit), but that doesn't mean we should all agree that it is exploitative and therefore needs some kind of sweeping reform. What you're saying reminds me a lot of when SWERFs try to tell us that we are all inherently being exploited simply by working in porn. To exploit someone means you're taking advantage of them for the benefit of yourself. If anything I have always felt like this job gives me the freedom to exploit my customers as I see fit, not the other way around.
I'll emphasize again that one of the main issues I had with your post is that you suggested an absolutist approach, as opposed to giving models a choice.
CatBBW
12-12-2020, 05:41 PM
I worked in a massive blue chip top 100 sales co for years before finding cam (yes I'm old!) First on the phones then field sales, where the bulk of my income was from comission. I became expert at closing big deals within a day. I very quickly realised that 'free chat' on cam sites was absolutely not worth it for most models. Yes it can work to give you a little exposure, and some models prefer that atmosphere as it's a bit more social (in the case of these models they probably do make more sales, a bit like strippers working the club floor). But in general free chat sites like Chaturbate are 90% freeloaders. It is FAR far more lucrative for a model to expend energy maximising current customers and expanding marketing into areas which are known to work like their own blog/site, paid advertising, and networking with bigger fish. If a guy is going to pay (pay anything worthwhile), he is fully able to decide within a short time. Literally the only bonus to free chat is for models who prefer that atmosphere.
I don't think getting rid of free chat altogether will ever happen. Sites prefer a 'shop window' to draw the traffic. Also it would be unfair to take it away from models who like doing it, they'd probably be bored as hell (unlike me). But I fully support the removal of all sexualised conduct or chat in free.
ABSOLUTELY (re my freechat experience). Give us the fucking CHOICE, cam sites! Some of us excel at free chat conversions, some of us flunk at free but do great at attracting priv/group/excl by NOT offering free, and some of us enjoy a bit of banter when things are slow or a lil bit of free can do you good ... just give us the CHOICE to do what we are good at.
sexysusie
12-13-2020, 01:11 AM
Apparently model hub has gone now on pornhub!
HaydenBlue
12-13-2020, 01:29 AM
Modelhub site is still up but purchasing is disabled. :( I want to assume they are setting up crypto but who knows anymore whats happening.
Apparently Clips4Sale has a bigger hand in mindgeeks cookie jar than just a partner using MG tech, if this rumor is correct and they use ProBiller, that's PornHub/Mindgeek's own payment processor which seems to be going down the toilet atm with ModelHub getting the plug pulled today.
So Clips4Sale suddenly purging categories with no statement is worrying...
Article about the rumors here: https://webcamstartup.com/pornhub-clips4sale-rumors/
EricaErotica
12-13-2020, 01:45 AM
It would not be difficult to implement payment within free chat. It is not impossible or unrealistic. I have developed my own websites which include a paid web chat feature. Every time a customer enters my cam room on my websites, if he wants to engage in the exchange of messages he is charged $1.00 per minute. I set up this system myself with the help of my graphic designer, website developer, and adult payment processor. I could have selected any amount I wanted. I believe that for myself $1.00 per minute is more than reasonable. I have had days where communicating with just ONE customer via my paid web chat feature has yielded me $100 in profits. With my adult payment processor I keep 85% of my earnings. So on some of these cam sites where models are compensated at 25%, 35%, or 50% of their sales their earnings might be different, but their earnings from using this method would be FAR greater than what they are receiving now.
This is a reasonable take. And I didn't misunderstand it, I just disagree with it. You and others here seem to believe that all cam-related emotional labor (i.e. any form of communication/action that could lead to the customer feeling gratified) should be compensated, which is a very difficult (if not impossible/unrealistic) thing to quantify and put a price tag on. I understood that this job requires a lot of potentially uncompensated labor (be it emotional, physical, or psychological labor) when I got into it, so I expect it and accept it. If you don't, that's fine (and you can adjust your hustle/require payment for everything as you see fit), but that doesn't mean we should all agree that it is exploitative and therefore needs some kind of sweeping reform. What you're saying reminds me a lot of when SWERFs try to tell us that we are all inherently being exploited simply by working in porn. To exploit someone means you're taking advantage of them for the benefit of yourself. If anything I have always felt like this job gives me the freedom to exploit my customers as I see fit, not the other way around.
I'll emphasize again that one of the main issues I had with your post is that you suggested an absolutist approach, as opposed to giving models a choice.
EricaErotica
12-13-2020, 01:55 AM
So glad I never did any business with either of these companies. Clips4Sale does not cover charge backs. So nope. Not going to ever use a company that allows customers to steal from performers. MindGeek was built on piracy. So nope there as well. Not going to ever use a company that endorses (and profits from) the theft of my intellectual property.
Modelhub site is still up but purchasing is disabled. :( I want to assume they are setting up crypto but who knows anymore whats happening.
Apparently Clips4Sale has a bigger hand in mindgeeks cookie jar than just a partner using MG tech, if this rumor is correct and they use ProBiller, that's PornHub/Mindgeek's own payment processor which seems to be going down the toilet atm with ModelHub getting the plug pulled today.
So Clips4Sale suddenly purging categories with no statement is worrying...
Article about the rumors here: https://webcamstartup.com/pornhub-clips4sale-rumors/
anonamiss
12-13-2020, 02:28 AM
It would not be difficult to implement payment within free chat. It is not impossible or unrealistic. I have developed my own websites which include a paid web chat feature. Every time a customer enters my cam room on my websites, if he wants to engage in the exchange of messages he is charged $1.00 per minute. I set up this system myself with the help of my graphic designer, website developer, and adult payment processor. I could have selected any amount I wanted. I believe that for myself $1.00 per minute is more than reasonable. I have had days where communicating with just ONE customer via my paid web chat feature has yielded me $100 in profits. With my adult payment processor I keep 85% of my earnings. So on some of these cam sites where models are compensated at 25%, 35%, or 50% of their sales their earnings might be different, but their earnings from using this method would be FAR greater than what they are receiving now.
I never said it would be difficult to implement, I said it would be difficult to quantify, which may not have been the best word choice. What I meant by that was, how does one determine how much any amount of communication and "emotional labor" is actually worth, in dollars? Are you suggesting that a guy stating a simple "hello" should cost him money to send that message to a camgirl? I personally think that is absurd and goes back to my initial comparison to a standard salesperson, and how I think it's unreasonable to expect a guy to pay for literally every interaction with a cammodel. I don't think customers should be charged for the most basic communication that happens during a sort of "window shop" situation, as someone else put it. But let me use that as an analogy: If you want to make your "shop" (your profile) completely exclusive, where customers have to pay just to get inside and browse, regardless of if they purchase anything, then I am fine with you having that option. But I should also have the option to keep my shop open to the public and allow for free window-shopping and browsing and asking me questions about my "products" if that's how I want to run my business.
You suggested that free chat should be "completely eliminated", which (I assumed) means you think this should be an industry-wide implementation and that you want pay-only sites to be the new standard, which is what I wholeheartedly disagree with. I guarantee you I and many other models with different hustles and preferences than you would make less money with the "method" you put forth above. You also seem to be talking more about your own personal sites where you have your own developer and payment processer, which most girls don't have and don't necessarily want, so I don't even see the relevance of mentioning that considering most of us here are on big box sites. Obviously if someone starts their own site, they can run it however they want. But just because it works for you and because you believe free chat=exploitation, in no way means that deserves to be the new industry standard.
EricaErotica
12-13-2020, 02:47 AM
No offense, but I'm not even reading your reply. No point. You have your opinion. I have mine. No use in continuing this discussion. It is a circular argument. In your eyes you are correct. In my eyes I am correct. All I know is that my method works for me and my business model. My method works. My method has allowed for me to reach ALL of my financial goals. I have been in the adult industry for a little over a decade. I reached ALL my financial goals in 8 years. Multiple businesses, property, investments, luxury cars, a nice stash of liquid cash, etc. It takes most people 20, 30, even 40 years to accumulate all of this. I achieved all of this by charging for EVERY SINGLE interaction with my customers.
I never said it would difficult to implement, I said it would be difficult to quantify, which may not have been the best word choice. What I meant by that was, how does one determine how much any amount of communication and "emotional labor" is actually worth, in dollars? Are you suggesting that a guy stating a simple "hello" should cost him money to send that message to a camgirl? I personally think that is absurd and goes back to my initial comparison to a standard salesperson, and how I think it's unreasonable to expect a guy to pay for literally every interaction with a cammodel. I don't think customers should be charged for the most basic communication that happens during a sort of "window shop" situation, as someone else put it. Let me use that as an analogy: If you want to make your "shop" (your profile) completely exclusive, where customers have to pay just to get inside and browse, regardless of if they purchase anything, then I am fine with you having that option. But I should also have the option to keep my shop open to the public and allow for free window-shopping and browsing and asking me questions about my "products" if that's how I want to run my business.
You suggested that free chat should be "completely eliminated", which means you think this should be an industry-wide implementation and that you want pay-only sites to be the new standard, which is what I wholeheartedly disagree with. I guarantee you I and many other models with different hustles and preferences than you would make less money with the "method" you put forth above. You also seem to be talking more about your own personal sites where you have your own developer and payment processer, which most girls don't have and don't necessarily want, so I don't even see the relevance of mentioning that considering most of us here are on big box sites. Just because it works for you and because you believe free chat=exploitation, in no way means that deserves to be the new industry standard.
anonamiss
12-13-2020, 02:53 AM
No offense, but I'm not even reading your reply. No point. You have your opinion. I have mine. No use in continuing this discussion. It is a circular argument. In your eyes you are correct. In my eyes I am correct. All I know is that my method works for me and my business model. You do you. I'll do me.
Actually no, all I really wanted from you was an acknowledgment that models should have a choice. Your phrasing was absolute, not mine, which was my issue because you seemed firm in your belief that the whole industry should run the way that works for you. Your initial post definitely did not have "you do you" vibes. But okay.
anonamiss
12-13-2020, 03:11 AM
No offense, but I'm not even reading your reply. No point. You have your opinion. I have mine. No use in continuing this discussion. It is a circular argument. In your eyes you are correct. In my eyes I am correct. All I know is that my method works for me and my business model. My method works. My method has allowed for me to reach ALL of my financial goals. I have been in the adult industry for a little over a decade. I reached ALL my financial goals in 8 years. Multiple businesses, property, investments, luxury cars, a nice stash of liquid cash, etc. It takes most people 20, 30, even 40 years to accumulate all of this. I achieved all of this by charging for EVERY SINGLE interaction with my customers.
Lol you keep adding to your post even though you said you were done...
Good for you that you've reached your financial goals with *the way that works for you.* I am not criticizing your hustle, I was merely comparing it to my experience, which you don't seem to be considering.
The first post of yours I responded to said "In the adult webcam site business model free chat should be completely eliminated. Adult webcam site visitors need to be conditioned to spending money. I believe that only paid chat should exist. We need to demand this compensation. Work without pay is exploitation. This needs to stop NOW within our industry."
By stating you think free chat should be completely eliminated and that only paid chat should exist, you effectively are stating that you don't believe other girls should have other options. That is the only reason I responded to you. I really couldn't care less how successful "your method" is because it is completely irrelevant to me and to this discussion.
EricaErotica
12-13-2020, 03:19 AM
If you are achieving ALL of your financial goals with your method there is nothing to discuss. Some models are not. They are looking to receive information on how to implement a camming method where they profit from ALL interactions. I am here to let them know that yes they can do it and yes it is VERY VERY lucrative. Some people, especially now, are looking for ways to maximize their earnings and protect themselves from the bad business practices of many companies in the adult industry. I am here to let them know you do not need ANY of these companies. You can do it all yourself and keep 75% - 90% of the profits. You might not be looking for options, but many people are.
Actually no, all I really wanted from you was an acknowledgment that models should have a choice. Your phrasing was absolute, not mine, which was my issue because you seemed firm in your belief that the whole industry should run the way that works for you. Your initial post definitely did not have "you do you" vibes. But okay.
anonamiss
12-13-2020, 03:23 AM
If you are achieving ALL of your financial goals with your method there is nothing to discuss. Some models are not. They are looking receive information on how to implement a camming method where they profit from ALL interactions. I am here to let them know that yes they can do it and yes it is VERY VERY lucrative. Some people, especially now, are looking for ways to maximize their earnings and protect themselves from the bad business practices of many companies in the adult industry. I am here to let them know you do not need ANY of these companies. You can do it all yourself and keep 75% - 90% of the profits. You might not be looking for options, but many people are.
That is great but still not the point, which was that your initial post I quoted that sparked this discussion did not at all mention what you are saying now (that you're here to offer advice and "options" - key word there.) You spoke as if to say that "no free chat ever/paid sites only" should be the only method implemented across the whole industry.
Anyway I'm done now, this is exhausting.
EricaErotica
12-13-2020, 03:26 AM
Like I said, if you are achieving ALL of your financial goals, my method should not bother you so much. Why are you bothered? It is my opinion. That is all it is. You can accept it. You can reject it. It does not really matter. We share opinions here. Take what you like. And forget everything else. It is as simple as that.
gbjenna
12-13-2020, 06:06 AM
I've chilled out about this now. Thank you for the replies asking about the situation and your insight. I've got a vanilla business plan, I'm not aiming through this aimlessly as I know it's not forever. I was reading all these posts worried I might be out of a job in a year lol before I could achieve what I've planned to. I didn't know if I was being naive to automatically assume people are being OTT and scaremongering a bit. It's like the beginning of covid, seeing the way people are going off. I'm keeping my head down and stop reading into it all
TheBrownFox
12-13-2020, 11:57 AM
Working on Clips4Sale today (plus having read the latest on the C4S thread), they've deleted some categories.
The ones noticed so far: Napping, Resting... all gone.
This is interesting, because I have an old clip in my C4S store of me laying down napping on the bed.
CatBBW
12-13-2020, 12:46 PM
This is interesting, because I have an old clip in my C4S store of me laying down napping on the bed.
Yes, same here. I was editing some old clips - that being one of them - and it wouldn't let me proceed until I had added a main category. The clips will sit in your store, just that people can't browse the deleted category to find them. I am guessing that in time C4S will either send out a message to say we should edit/remove any content that breaks the new rules, or they will do a sweep and delete them. I had an old clip removed a week or so ago by them, it was of me "sleeping" and having my boobs groped. makes me wonder if that was the start of them clearing out, as it seemed very random.
CatBBW
12-14-2020, 05:19 AM
Just logged into C4S and there's an announcement...
With the recent adult industry challenges, we, at Clips4Sale, have taken pro-active steps to protect our site. In doing so, we have updated some categories and made minor adjustments. With all our content uploaded by verified content creators and reviewed based on our compliance rules, we feel very confident in our approach to ensure Clips4Sale, and its studios, provide quality legal products to its customers.
Please be assured we are doing our best to protect the Clips4Sale family with these preventive steps, to ensure our continued success.
Clips4Sale Management
Clips4Sale.com
innocentindian
12-14-2020, 08:17 AM
PornHub is removing all their unverified videos: https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgqjjy/pornhub-suspended-all-unverified-videos-content
I'm guessing in an attempt to get Mastercard & Visa back, but who knows if the CC companies will work with PH again.
sexysusie
12-14-2020, 08:43 AM
Problem is they just verify the guys that continue to pirate
gbjenna
12-14-2020, 09:49 AM
Problem is they just verify the guys that continue to pirate
Do you not think there’s maybe a possibility that they’ll verify who’s in the videos too? Or am I expecting too much from them here?
Cause they could still upload revenge porn then, or surely even possibly underage stuff, if they don’t have to verify who’s in the video?
laurielegs
12-14-2020, 01:25 PM
Do you not think there’s maybe a possibility that they’ll verify who’s in the videos too? Or am I expecting too much from them here?
Cause they could still upload revenge porn then, or surely even possibly underage stuff, if they don’t have to verify who’s in the video?
I have a feeling they are being forced to prevent this by having to prove they have the right to upload the video by providing a model consent just like we have to. Pisses me off how they have allowed unverified vids for years until it affeced their money.
I'm so curious about how they are going to move forward with this. I made a "male" account with a throwaway email and tried to upload a video just to see and it's not possible currently. It gives this message
"User uploads are currently only available to members of our Model Program and Content Partner Program until our new verification system is launched."
I feel like most are not going to bother trying to upload since they have to verify who they are, which is good news.
Sam38g
12-14-2020, 09:31 PM
i actually super disagree with this. i have always thought that above all else, cammodels are salespeople. i believe it's inaccurate to simply refer to us under the blanket of "performers" because it's not like we have designated scripts or scenes we're acting out for an audience who has already paid. bottom line is we are the ones who have to sell ourselves, and that is what we signed on for. if you get rid of free chat altogether, how can you expect anyone to willingly commit to paying you if they haven't been pitched the product yet, so to speak? i can't fathom that very many guys would be down to pay for each message and otherwise go in blind when interracting with a cammodel. what you're suggesting is equivalent to saying that a commission-based salesperson should also be paid for any and all interactions they make with the public regardless of if they make a sale. that's not how it works.
i know there at least used to be a few sites that don't have free chat, honestly not sure if that is still the case because i haven't seeked them out. my point is, i believe it should be an option, not a requirement. if you hate it that much or truly feel like you're being "exploited" by having to be in free chat, then you should have the *choice* to work on PPV-only sites, or go indie. but i absolutely do not support the notion of getting rid of free chat altogether. i would not have garnered the regulars or specific types of customers i have if it weren't for my free chat hustle style. just look at some of the top MFC girls. there are plenty over there who make a killing without ever getting nude or doing private shows; their success never would have happened without free chat.
Free chat did not exist for the longest time until MFC came along. So that biz model is doable, but free chat is an excellent way to hustle. Some people excel at it and some don't.
Can't predict how this will all pan out, but as a 21 year vet in this industry. Sites come & go, the biz is ever evolving and we simple adapt & then thrive.
Sam38g
12-14-2020, 09:49 PM
Most of the Visa/Mastercard rules are not new, seen over the past ten years those rules get bended and broken by many & some of the sites encouraged it. And Visa/Mastercard over the past few years have told sites to clean up their acts. While I know many performers to make money off of niches that were against the rules & many of customers try to push me into doing those same fetishes I resisted. Cause I knew eventually Visa/Mastercard has the ability to shut off our income.
PH is a very rich company & has many of lawyers to handle this situation. They will adapt & change in order to keep making money online. All my stolen vids & recorded cam shows without my consent are now gone off of PH, which makes me extremely happy. Now some say in the biz that was all free advertising but I made way more money before PH even existed.
Being able to drive your own traffic from several sources has always been important. And when one goes down, you adjust and keep moving forward. Like SM has plenty of White labels as does CB & other cam sites to drive traffic to them, but it is always best to drive traffic directly to your own links.
Now, a person can be all doom over this or see the upside & opportunities. Less stolen porn & our cam shows is a win to me. If you want traffic & sales, time to double down with uploading content onto PH to fill the void of millions upon millions of vids that has been removed.
After decades in this biz I've seen sites rise & fall, can't get upset about it. Simply adapt, find a way to make it an advantage for yourself. Other tubes will have to follow suit or lose their ability to make money soon. And all those who enjoyed the mass of free porn who thought it as their right have a hard lesson to learn. I will rejoice in their tears as they did in my income being destroyed in 2008 and on by those tubes.
PH will become more like MV or OF and such, they have too much time & money not to move onto the next level of biz. Which I have stated years ago on here would be the end result of these tubes to do in order to survive.
Opportunity here is to be uploading vids for sale & promo material to all the tubes for the next few weeks. Today my xvids acct was going crazy with traffic.
anonamiss
12-14-2020, 11:58 PM
Free chat did not exist for the longest time until MFC came along. So that biz model is doable, but free chat is an excellent way to hustle. Some people excel at it and some don't.
Can't predict how this will all pan out, but as a 21 year vet in this industry. Sites come & go, the biz is ever evolving and we simple adapt & then thrive.
i am aware of how it used to be, but given the fact that there is a new contemporary expectation of free chat and free things in general, i really don't think the paid-only business model is ever going to become the standard again. i'm not saying it isn't doable. it's a niche. the idea of it being the "new norm" again is unrealistic, IMO.
Sam38g
12-15-2020, 05:16 AM
i am aware of how it used to be, but given the fact that there is a new contemporary expectation of free chat and free things in general, i really don't think the paid-only business model is ever going to become the standard again. i'm not saying it isn't doable. it's a niche. the idea of it being the "new norm" again is unrealistic, IMO.
Never know what the future will bring, this industry is always evolving & changing. It is Visa/Mastercard set the rules, not the companies. Was told over the past ten years that porn had to be free in order to get traffic & make money to a pay site. Then OF came along & put it all behind a pay wall again to much success. As in they have 85 million subcribers and over 100 content creators who pull in a million a month. Visa/Mastercard just did a major flex and has everyone's in this industries attention... None of us know how this will affect other platforms.
They all have highly paid CEOs & lawyers to do their worrying. I roll with the times & adapt, none of them are paying me to be a consultant or fortune teller.
izshadow
12-15-2020, 08:12 AM
I guess it finally hit all the news stations in my area last night and this morning. The comments are awful though that I was reading through. I mean I get why they are doing it because of all the child porn on there but dang, its rough seeing how looked down upon we are. I'm not taking it to heart but man it took all I had not to fire back at those people and out myself haha.
arielbriel
12-15-2020, 08:22 AM
I guess it finally hit all the news stations in my area last night and this morning. The comments are awful though that I was reading through. I mean I get why they are doing it because of all the child porn on there but dang, its rough seeing how looked down upon we are. I'm not taking it to heart but man it took all I had not to fire back at those people and out myself haha.
Honestly, don’t bother. I read the comments also on Twitter and lots of SW’s are making their voices heard and it’s even worse because we all mostly adopted the term “sex worker” as an umbrella term for our industry and to the regular folks it just sounds bad.
JustineA
12-15-2020, 10:39 AM
Has anyone heard anything from Streamate about this and if the payment processing will be affected for that site? I don't expect them to give merchant information although some sort of touching base-addressing the issue would be nice. It seems like everything is up in the air and maybe they themselves dont know if they'll be affected by it? I don't know.. maybe its apples and oranges and because there's so much age verification on SM, it's completely fine?
Erika_Xstacy
12-15-2020, 08:08 PM
finally someone drained a swamp. Im so glad all unverified content is gone. This will give models a higher number in views I imagine
the forums are blowing up with freeloaders "ph tricked us into free porn to become a paysite" angry but its porn, they will return, in a few hours. still thousands of free amatuer videos.. and the fact we cant take visa/ mastercard but can purchase with paypal. Im being prompted for that
Canadian and australian models are taking a hit.. higher fees for deposits.
arielbriel
12-16-2020, 05:55 AM
Guys check out Reddit r/pornhub to see grown men having an epic meltdown lol.
miss.a.p1600
12-16-2020, 06:01 AM
^probably the sick pedophiles and the cheapskates
Men acting like they gone die if they don’t have access to sexual outlets .... lol !!
Juliette25
12-16-2020, 05:28 PM
Just logged into C4S and there's an announcement...
With the recent adult industry challenges, we, at Clips4Sale, have taken pro-active steps to protect our site. In doing so, we have updated some categories and made minor adjustments. With all our content uploaded by verified content creators and reviewed based on our compliance rules, we feel very confident in our approach to ensure Clips4Sale, and its studios, provide quality legal products to its customers.
Please be assured we are doing our best to protect the Clips4Sale family with these preventive steps, to ensure our continued success.
Clips4Sale Management
Clips4Sale.com
What's with these vague ass fucking announcements? Either say something or don't. Cut out the in between bullshit.
Juliette25
12-16-2020, 05:37 PM
I wonder why you can pay with crypto for your pornhub membership but no can't pay for anything at all on modelhub. I would like to take advantage of the traffic from PH right now but I'd rather people be buying my content than watching it for free. hmm