View Full Version : Rioters storm Capital Building in DC
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Eric Stoner
01-12-2021, 12:44 PM
Maxine waters?!?
what she be saying though?
Just to keep it simple and recent, she encouraged confrontations with Government officials she does not like or disagree with in PRIVATE settings. She has done as much as Trump to lower the tone of political discourse and encourage lack of civility.
Eric Stoner
01-12-2021, 12:59 PM
OK, then terminate those accounts as well. "But they're doing it too" is not a good defense whatsoever.
Yeah, the median MAGA crowd is watching 60 Minutes and making the sudden realization "Oh man, I've been wrong all along!" Hell no, they aren't! Or they would have after four years of fact checking and debunking claims and conspiracy theories. Instead, they ate it all up.
Laughing to keep from facepalming. Parler can and absolutely did create its own platform; it just can't distribute itself on Google and Apple, nor use Amazon's infrastructure to facilitate violence. Well now, Parler can build its own service fabric, infrastructure, and digital distribution service too! And I mentioned this about two months ago:
The _government_ won't abridge your freedom of speech (with some restrictions) on Parler, and the _government_ didn't do that. So what's the problem?
This is the actual statement from their senior legislative counsel. It doesn't read like support for Trump:
"For months, President Trump has been using social media platforms to seed doubt about the results of the election and to undermine the will of voters. We understand the desire to permanently suspend him now, but it should concern everyone when companies like Facebook and Twitter wield the unchecked power to remove people from platforms that have become indispensable for the speech of billions – especially when political realities make those decisions easier. President Trump can turn his press team or Fox News to communicate with the public, but others – like many Black, Brown, and LGTBQ activists who have been censored by social media companies – will not have that luxury. It is our hope that these companies will apply their rules transparently to everyone."
WHO are Facebook and Twitter helping by suppressing Trump and others whose ideas they do not like or agree with ? Technically you are correct as Congress is not doing the suppression directly via legislation but these are publicly traded companies who GET GOVERNMENT BENEFITS ( inter alia, every Senator and Congressperson has a Facebook and Twitter account ) doing the bidding of ONE party ; of one pov. And often on some very specious grounds NOT applied to Dems and other Libs.
The "60 Minutes " report CONFIRMED what was already out there concerning the Georgia results. It only took a few hundred QAnon and Proud Boy loons to violently trespass on the Capitol. Trump encouraged them to go to the Capitol. He didn't tell them to break in or attack the Police. But, BUT I agree that he ought not have said ANYTHING except to say : "The election was over two months ago. Joe won. I lost. Maybe there were some dirty tricks and fast dealing but I can't prove enough to change a single state's result. Go home and gear up for 2022. " Yeah , you're right. He'd never say that. More's the pity.
It's obvious they hate doing it but the ACLU recognizes the danger of content based discrimination and suppression of speech.
eagle2
01-12-2021, 01:00 PM
Just to keep it simple and recent, she encouraged confrontations with Government officials she does not like or disagree with in PRIVATE settings. She has done as much as Trump to lower the tone of political discourse and encourage lack if civility.
No, she encouraged confrontations with Government officials who were enabling Trump's policy of forcibly removing thousands of children from their parents, and throwing them in cold, overcrowded detention centers, where children were kept in horrific conditions for months at a time. What Trump was doing to these children is far worse than confronting govt officials who helped carry out this cruel policy.
eagle2
01-12-2021, 01:14 PM
WHO are Facebook and Twitter helping by suppressing Trump and others whose ideas they do not like or agree with ? Technically you are correct as Congress is not doing the suppression directly via legislation but these are publicly traded companies who GET GOVERNMENT BENEFITS ( inter alia, every Senator and Congressperson has a Facebook and Twitter account ) doing the bidding of ONE party ; of one pov. And often on some very specious grounds NOT
applied to Dems and other Libs.
They're not suppressing Trump because they don't like or disagree with their ideas. They're suppressing Trump because he incites violence.
FB and Twitter are helping all of the people being harassed and assaulted by Trump's fanatical supporters. I see videos all the time of people of color being harassed and/or assaulted by Trump supporters, or people wearing masks or store employees enforcing mask rules being harassed and assaulted. Any time Trump targets a member of Congress in his tweets, they're inundated with death threats. Any reporter who writes anything negative about Trump, can expect to be targeted by Trump on Twitter, and get inundated with death threats. Reporters have had to hire body guards because of Trump. Dr. Fauci had to hire body guards for his family after being targeted by Trump. Election workers have also been targeted by Trump. One was sent a noose by one of Trump's MAGAts. What about these people's right to free speech? Why shouldn't reporters be allowed to criticize Trump or disagree with him, without being inundated with death threats?
miss.a.p1600
01-12-2021, 01:15 PM
WHO are Facebook and Twitter helping by suppressing Trump and others whose ideas they do not like or agree with ? Technically you are correct as Congress is not doing the suppression directly via legislation but these are publicly traded companies who GET GOVERNMENT BENEFITS ( inter alia, every Senator and Congressperson has a Facebook and Twitter account ) doing the bidding of ONE party ; of one pov. And often on some very specious grounds NOT
applied to Dems and other Libs.
The "60 Minutes " report CONFIRMED what was already out there concerning the Georgia results. It only took a few hundred QAnon and Proud Boy loons to violently trespass on the Capitol. Trump encouraged them to go to the Capitol. He didn't tell them to break in or attack the Police. But, BUT I agree that he ought not have said ANYTHING except to say : "The election was over two months ago. Joe won. I lost. Maybe there were some dirty tricks and fast dealing but I can't prove enough to change a single state's result. Go home and gear up for 2022. " Yeah , you're right. He'd never say that. More's the pity.
It's obvious they hate doing it but the ACLU recognizes the danger of content based discrimination and suppression of speech.
Wasn’t he quoted (I think eagle found the exact phrasing) saying something to the effect of “fight like hell” etc.
Some other politician was quoted saying “lightly threaten” the congressmen
This is why leaders who aren’t mentally stable n aren’t well versed in public speaking should not hold the position. Trump is real slick. He knows what to say to rile people up but he stops short of doing anything to be blamed or held accountable.
He can easily say he never told those people outright to go kill but what he did do was for months he riled up his cult followers, peddle baseless claims, got them to pay their hard earned money to his fraudulent campaign, and manipulated them to take action he wanted but when it got out of hand he was in the cut somewhere orgasming from the chaos he had a part in creating all while continuing to deny any responsibility for his actions n pointing the finger at everyone else except himself for being a piss poor leader.
All this shit happening to the country on his watch
miss.a.p1600
01-12-2021, 01:17 PM
Oh and I can guarantee Trump will lead his cult followers for more destruction if their cult leader is impeached.
He posted a thinly veiled threat on that creepy ass video he just released.
eagle2
01-12-2021, 01:23 PM
Wasn’t he quoted (I think eagle found the exact phrasing) saying something to the effect of “fight like hell” etc.
Yes. I think it was "fight like hell or lose your country". He also made other incendiary statements.
Some other politician was quoted saying “lightly threaten” the congressmen
Yes, and another one said "take names and kick ass" at the rally. Giuliani said we'll have "trial by combat".
This is why leaders who aren’t mentally stable n aren’t well versed in public speaking should not hold the position. Trump is real slick. He knows what to say to rile people up but he stops short of doing anything to be blamed or held accountable.
Not really. Most people were able to figure out Trump's intent, which is why he's been banned from social media.
dpacrkk
01-12-2021, 01:32 PM
WHO are Facebook and Twitter helping by suppressing Trump and others whose ideas they do not like or agree with ?
They're helping people that don't spread disinformation and encourage insurrections. Do you think these are not the right thing to do? But that's irrelevant and incidental.
And they aren't suppressing Trump, they're suppressing a habitual rule-breaker that happens to be named "Donald Trump." As miss.a.p1600 mentioned, during summer 2020 on Twitter there was an account (@SuspendThePres) that tweeted content originally from @realDonaldTrump verbatim. @SuspendThePres was suspended repeatedly while nothing happened to the originating tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account. The point is judgments should be about the content and not the person and the @realDonaldTrump account has gotten away with far more than you seem to be willing to acknowledge.
Technically you are correct as Congress is not doing the suppression directly via legislation but these are publicly traded companies who GET GOVERNMENT BENEFITS ( inter alia, every Senator and Congressperson has a Facebook and Twitter account ) doing the bidding of ONE party ; of one pov. And often on some very specious grounds NOT applied to Dems and other Libs.
And that doesn't make it part of the government. So what's the problem? And drop the parties; do you really think the other parties do anything to the same frequency or magnitude as what's being done now? Be honest with yourself, if the parties were switched, would you post your opposition as much as you are now?
The "60 Minutes " report CONFIRMED what was already out there concerning the Georgia results. It only took a few hundred QAnon and Proud Boy loons to violently trespass on the Capitol. Trump encouraged them to go to the Capitol.
OK...but I never claimed otherwise. But anyway, two people in the party did the right thing. Again, did that message reach the MAGA crowd?
It's obvious they hate doing it but the ACLU recognizes the danger of content based discrimination and suppression of speech.
They recognize the danger of not applying decisions consistently.
eagle2
01-12-2021, 01:40 PM
Look at what people have to put up with, from Trump supporters:
https://twitter.com/BillyBaldwin/status/1348837256841216001
This is why Trump needs to be suppressed from social media.
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-12-2021, 02:02 PM
The doj has now charged over 70 people with sedition and conspiracy. Some come with a mandatory sentence of 20 years! I bet if some of these people had spent more time reading up on felonies plus sentencing, they would have stayed at home. Now their freedom really is in jeopardy. The video starts around 7:20
https://youtu.be/6E4T4f_jg7M
jack0177057
01-12-2021, 02:31 PM
The doj has now charged over 70 people with sedition and conspiracy. Some come with a mandatory sentence of 20 years! I bet if some of these people had spent more time reading up on felonies plus sentencing, they would have stayed at home. Now their freedom really is in jeopardy. The video starts around 7:20
https://youtu.be/6E4T4f_jg7M
If these people are the leaders of the Trump world (bloggers, alt-right radio, etc.), then, this is indeed a good thing. Will locking up these morons lead to the end of the Trump cult? One can hope and pray, but, I don't know.
Wacko white supremacists have always existed in our nation, but, they used to lay low (for the most part) before Trump. Some right-wing politicians flirted with them a little, but, none went 'all the way' with them, until Trump. Trump indeed went 'all the way' with them and even bought the engagement ring. He gave them political clout, encouraged and emboldened them. Now they are flagrant, unabashed, and more dangerous than ever.
They are like White Walkers in our midst. There's a war coming. (Quote from Game of Thrones referring to the White Walkers.)
miss.a.p1600
01-12-2021, 03:54 PM
Look at what people have to put up with, from Trump supporters:
https://twitter.com/BillyBaldwin/status/1348837256841216001
This is why Trump needs to be suppressed from social media.
Gross! They’re breathing all hard n shouting with no mask or social distancing
miss.a.p1600
01-12-2021, 04:41 PM
The doj has now charged over 70 people with sedition and conspiracy. Some come with a mandatory sentence of 20 years! I bet if some of these people had spent more time reading up on felonies plus sentencing, they would have stayed at home. Now their freedom really is in jeopardy. The video starts around 7:20
https://youtu.be/6E4T4f_jg7M
the craziest thing with some of those people their relatives n exes were identifying them to law enforcement
And if they were dumb enough to have no masks on thus spread disease n show entire face/film themselves/take pics of themselves/livestream from their public accounts while committing crimes then they deserve it
miss.a.p1600
01-12-2021, 04:48 PM
Lawmakers are testing positive for Covid-19 after the Capitol lockdown
At least five lawmakers have tested positive since the Capitol insurrection.
https://www.vox.com/2021/1/12/22227047/lawmakers-positive-coronavirus-capitol-lockdown-laturner-jayapal-coleman-schneider
PhatGirlDynomite!!!
01-12-2021, 04:59 PM
the craziest thing with some of those people their relatives n exes were identifying them to law enforcement
And if they were dumb enough to have no masks on thus spread disease n show entire face/film themselves/take pics of themselves/livestream from their public accounts while committing crimes then they deserve it
Its stated in this video that they were able to collect over 150,000 pieces of digital data. They did it to themselves. The fbi has a webpage dedicated to finding them. I bet people on social media are turning them in too.
Violent Activity at the U.S Capitol Building
The FBI is seeking information that will assist in identifying individuals who are actively instigating violence in Washington, DC. The FBI is accepting tips and digital media depicting rioting and violence in the U.S. Capitol Building and surrounding area in Washington, DC, on January 6, 2021.
If you have witnessed unlawful violent actions, we urge you to submit any information, photos, or videos that could be relevant at fbi.gov/USCapitol.
Please use this form to submit any images, videos, or other multimedia files you have related to possible violations of federal law committed. Our goal is to preserve the public’s constitutional right to protest by protecting everyone from violence and other criminal activity.
You may also call 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324) to verbally report tips and/or information related to this investigation.
If you do not have an attachment but have information to provide, please submit it at tips.fbi.gov
https://tips.fbi.gov/digitalmedia/aad18481a3e8f02
Raziel
01-12-2021, 05:22 PM
Yeah, well one Moron put shit he stole from there on EBAY (Nancy Pelosi's Lectern). Does this guy not know that if you take shit that doesn't belong to you that's a CRIME? And of course, he was caught. GOD, what an idiot! Ebay?
Raziel
01-12-2021, 05:38 PM
Not to mention that anyone who bought it would also face charges. It's called ""Receiving stolen property." So they're dumb, too. I think it was up to like 14,000$, you're gonna pay that much just to go to jail? God, who ARE these people?
eagle2
01-12-2021, 11:13 PM
Rep. Mikie Sherill, Navy veteran and Annapolis grad who sits on the House Armed Services Committee says she saw Congress members "who had groups coming through the Capitol that I saw on January 5th, a reconnaissance for the next day."
https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1349226164649279490
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 09:54 AM
No, she encouraged confrontations with Government officials who were enabling Trump's policy of forcibly removing thousands of children from their parents, and throwing them in cold, overcrowded detention centers, where children were kept in horrific conditions for months at a time. What Trump was doing to these children is far worse than confronting govt officials who helped carry out this cruel policy.
I am sorry but it is and always was far beyond the pale. When Carter and Reagan took divisive policy positions those officials promoting some could safely eat out. I could pick a dozen different issues that engendered strong feelings on both sides where basic rules of civility and decency continued to be observed. The Tea Party did NOT publicly confront Congresspeople and Obama officials. Even during Vietnam and wars under Bush basic civility was observed. Yeah Bush had shoes thrown at him - By an Iraqi in IRAQ.
On the specific issue you mention, WHERE were they when Obama started the policy of family separation ?
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 10:03 AM
They're not suppressing Trump because they don't like or disagree with their ideas. They're suppressing Trump because he incites violence.
FB and Twitter are helping all of the people being harassed and assaulted by Trump's fanatical supporters. I see videos all the time of people of color being harassed and/or assaulted by Trump supporters, or people wearing masks or store employees enforcing mask rules being harassed and assaulted. Any time Trump targets a member of Congress in his tweets, they're inundated with death threats. Any reporter who writes anything negative about Trump, can expect to be targeted by Trump on Twitter, and get inundated with death threats. Reporters have had to hire body guards because of Trump. Dr. Fauci had to hire body guards for his family after being targeted by Trump. Election workers have also been targeted by Trump. One was sent a noose by one of Trump's MAGAts. What about these people's right to free speech? Why shouldn't reporters be allowed to criticize Trump or disagree with him, without being inundated with death threats?
Twer it only true. IF that is the standard then Twitter has a LOT of work to do. What about all the "Kill Trump" hashtags hosted by Twitter ? The Iranians who call for Israel's destruction ? ; the "Pigs In a Blanket, Fry Em Like Bacon " found in a myriad of tweets ; all the Anti-Fa accounts including the left wing Portland journalist telling AntiFa that : " Andy Ngo is here ". That was after Ngo had been physically assaulted several times before including one where he had a very serious concussion. Twitter has the right to police its site so long as those rules are applied equally and fairly.
dpacrkk
01-13-2021, 10:14 AM
What about all the "Kill Trump" hashtags hosted by Twitter ?
Read this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism). Remember this from yesterday?
OK, then terminate those accounts as well. "But they're doing it too" is not a good defense whatsoever.
Twitter has the right to police its site so long as those rules are applied equally and fairly.
Morally, sure, in reality, no. They can do what they want on their private platform. While on the subject: why is it usually one major party is held to moral and ethical standards, while the other rationalizes and employs double standards? Also, do you remember this from yesterday?
As miss.a.p1600 mentioned, during summer 2020 on Twitter there was an account (@SuspendThePres) that tweeted content originally from @realDonaldTrump verbatim. @SuspendThePres was suspended repeatedly while nothing happened to the originating tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account. The point is judgments should be about the content and not the person and the @realDonaldTrump account has gotten away with far more than you seem to be willing to acknowledge.
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 10:19 AM
Unlike some of you I do not have to pick and choose which violence and incendiary rhetoric I am willing to tolerate. I am against all of it. By whomever.
As far as Trump is concerned I have no sympathy for him. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. He did this to himself and to the country . For NOTHING ! As I've posted, it was quickly apparent that his objections to the election had no merit; his investigations led nowhere ; his evidence of wrongdoing was virtually non-existent and could not even survive motions to dismiss or procedural judicial gatekeeping i.e. they lacked any serious merit. I posted a day or two after the election that he ought to have conceded and moved on. Instead he channeled his inner Roy Cohn ( never apologize , never retreat , never surrender , never concede , attack repeat attack etc. ) There have been some Republican adults who said what I have said early on -Rich Lowery , Mitch McConnel and others. The mischief makers and criminals from a week ago were almost all from QAnon and The Proud Boys. They were NOT from Anti-Fa and I hate it when Giuliani and other Trump sycophants , toadies and lackeys try to blame the Capitol riot on them. Not true. Won't wash. I think Trump should resign or at least hand the reins over to Pence until Biden is Inaugurated. He won't and impeaching him won't result in anything useful. What can be done is to start promoting more civility and crack down on ALL political violence. From MAGA ; AntiFa ; BLM ; whoever !
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 10:28 AM
If Twitter wants to be a "private " platform where Dorsey et.al. get to decide who gets to speak then they are not entitled to Government provided immunity.
I have a proposed solution. Twitter is entitled to set rules and guidelines for posting. Inciting violence or posting clear libel with no redeeming value would be great for starters SO LONG AS those rules apply To EVERYBODY who posts on Twitter. Same for Facebook. At present Twitter feels entitled to pick and choose.
dpacrkk
01-13-2021, 10:40 AM
If Twitter wants to be a "private " platform where Dorsey et.al. get to decide who gets to speak then they are not entitled to Government provided immunity.
No need for the quotes; it's private. Unless you think it's owned by any level of government. Repeatedly posting otherwise does not make it true. Similar to repeatedly posting that the election was stolen; it's not true regardless of how many times it's repeated. Do you see what I did there?
At present Twitter feels entitled to pick and choose.
Please, just a yes/no answer: Did you ever post any opposition to the fact that the @SuspendThePres Twitter account was suspended repeatedly for tweeting verbatim content from @realDonaldTrump while nothing happened to the source account?
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 11:18 AM
No need for the quotes; it's private. Unless you think it's owned by any level of government. Repeatedly posting otherwise does not make it true. Similar to repeatedly posting that the election was stolen; it's not true regardless of how many times it's repeated. Do you see what I did there?
Please, just a yes/no answer: Did you ever post any opposition to the fact that the @SuspendThePres Twitter account was suspended repeatedly for tweeting verbatim content from @realDonaldTrump while nothing happened to the source account?
Honestly I am not familiar with it. I do not and never have read Trump's tweets. Look what I've been missing lol. Afaic either Twitter fairly enforces the same standards on everybody regardless of their nationality ; politics etc. or they should lose their GOVERNMENT provided protection. Either they vet everybody and their tweets and remove any and all incitements to violence or they ought to be subject to suits like everyone else.
Btw, the congressional testimony UNDER OATH of both Zuckerberg and Dorsey clearly showed that they were making editorial decisions i.e. they were acting like publishers. They provide a platform and that platform gets used for political speech. It is not just a way to reach people ; it has become THE way to do it in some contexts. Except for judicious trimming at the edges how can there be content based editorial decisions without having a serious impact on POLITICAL speech. The highest and most valued of ALL speech.
Raziel
01-13-2021, 11:24 AM
Regardless of anything anybody posts, here, Twitter is a PRIVATELY OWNED COMPANY. The Government doesn't own one stitch of it. They can ban you from Stripperweb, right? Guess what, so can Twitter. Matter of fact, I'd say they were exceedingly indulgent of Donald Trump! They only banned him at the end of his term. You do NOT have free speech in a private setting.
dpacrkk
01-13-2021, 11:32 AM
Honestly I am not familiar with it. I do not and never have read Trump's tweets. Look what I've been missing lol. Afaic either Twitter fairly enforces the same standards on everybody regardless of their nationality ; politics etc. or they should lose their GOVERNMENT provided protection. Either they vet everybody and their tweets and remove any and all incitements to violence or they ought to be subject to suits like everyone else.
Is that really what you're going with? "I wasn't aware he ever benefited from this unequal treatment, but now that I'm aware he's at a disadvantage, I'm suddenly against the unequal treatment." How convenient.
Btw, the congressional testimony UNDER OATH of both Zuckerberg and Dorsey clearly showed that they were making editorial decisions i.e. they were acting like publishers.
When do they make these admissions? Here is the primary source video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT3OgojnhFM&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=CBSNews
eagle2
01-13-2021, 11:33 AM
I am sorry but it is and always was far beyond the pale. When Carter and Reagan took divisive policy positions those officials promoting some could safely eat out. I could pick a dozen different issues that engendered strong feelings on both sides where basic rules of civility and decency continued to be observed. The Tea Party did NOT publicly confront Congresspeople and Obama officials. Even during Vietnam and wars under Bush basic civility was observed. Yeah Bush had shoes thrown at him - By an Iraqi in IRAQ.
On the specific issue you mention, WHERE were they when Obama started the policy of family separation ?
Obama never had a policy of family separation and Obama followed the law.
I consider forcibly removing children from parents far worse than asking one of the people enabling this to leave a restaurant, or protesting one of those people at a restaurant. People have 1st Amendment rights to protest against individuals. It's also relatively minor compared to what some of the people targeted by Trump have had to go through. As I mentioned before, reporters have had to hire body guards after being targeted by Trump. So did Dr. Fauci's family. People of color are harassed by Trump supporters all the time. The people enabling Trump know this, but they choose to serve under him anyway.
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 12:17 PM
Is that really what you're going with? "I wasn't aware he ever benefited from this unequal treatment, but now that I'm aware he's at a disadvantage, I'm suddenly against the unequal treatment." How convenient.
When do they make these admissions? Here is the primary source video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT3OgojnhFM&feature=emb_logo&ab_channel=CBSNews
Are you serious ? I have never followed Trump on Twitter. As far as Trump benefitting from retweeting , so what ?
Zuckerberg and Dorsey did not acknowledge making editorial decisions or admit to acting like publishers. However , the behavior they were forced to admit to , which is public record, is clearly editorial. They check most, if not all, of the boxes for acting like a publisher and not just a platform provider.
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 12:26 PM
Obama never had a policy of family separation and Obama followed the law.
I consider forcibly removing children from parents far worse than asking one of the people enabling this to leave a restaurant, or protesting one of those people at a restaurant. People have 1st Amendment rights to protest against individuals. It's also relatively minor compared to what some of the people targeted by Trump have had to go through. As I mentioned before, reporters have had to hire body guards after being targeted by Trump. So did Dr. Fauci's family. People of color are harassed by Trump supporters all the time. The people enabling Trump know this, but they choose to serve under him anyway.
There are plenty of examples across the political spectrum of people having to pay a price for supporting Trump ; for just doing their duty; for opposing Trump ; for praising him ; for criticizing him. None of it is right.
As far as the illegal entry children, I have asked you before ( without any response ) what should have been done with them ? Whose fault is it that they came or were brought to the U.S. illegally ? It wasn't Trump's idea.
I'm sorry but you are NOT entitled to your own facts. It is historically true that Obama started detaining illegal entry children. At first , under Trump, the Border Patrol was stuck with the same inadequate detention facilities they had to work with when Obama was in charge. The problem was more acute under Trump because A. he established a Zero Tolerance policy and B. there was a greater influx of minors on his watch.
I know I am going to take hits for this but I really don't care all that much. Not beyond a basic human empathy. Not compared to my concern for native born Americans and those who came here legally. My focus is on WHO took them across the border ? It wasn't Trump.
dpacrkk
01-13-2021, 12:29 PM
Are you serious ? I have never followed Trump on Twitter.
Are you serious? I have never followed Trump on Twitter either. Yet I still know of the social experiment performed. And I explained it to you three (?) times. Ignorantia non excusat.
As far as Trump benefitting from retweeting , so what ?
Good job reading. Let's try again in simpler prose:
1. Trump tweets something.
2. SuspendThePres tweets the same thing verbatim.
3. SuspendThePres gets suspended.
4. Nothing happens to Trump despite the @SuspendThePres account having been suspended for tweeting the exact same content verbatim. <----- THIS IS WHERE HE'S BENEFITTING!!!
5. Repeat steps 1-4.
Zuckerberg and Dorsey did not acknowledge making editorial decisions or admit to acting like publishers. However , the behavior they were forced to admit to , which is public record, is clearly editorial. They check most, if not all, of the boxes for acting like a publisher and not just a platform provider.
Similar question then: When do they make statements indicating behavior that is clearly editorial and/or acting like a publisher?
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 12:33 PM
Are you serious? I have never followed Trump on Twitter either. Yet I still know of the social experiment performed. And I explained it to you three (?) times. Ignorantia non excusat.
Good job reading. Let's try again:
1. Trump tweets something.
2. SuspendThePres tweets the same thing verbatim.
3. SuspendThePres gets suspended.
4. Nothing happens to Trump despite the @SuspendThePres account having been suspended for tweeting the exact same content verbatim. <----- THIS IS WHERE HE'S BENEFITTING!!!
5. Repeat steps 1-4.
Similar question then: When do they make statements indicating behavior that is clearly editorial and/or acting like a publisher?
It was contained in their ADMISSIONS concerning certain decisions they made mostly involving conservative posters like the N.Y. Post among other egregious examples.
It seems to me that your criticism ought to be directed at Twitter. Are you claiming that Trump somehow bamboozled them ?
dpacrkk
01-13-2021, 12:41 PM
It was contained in their ADMISSIONS concerning certain decisions they made mostly involving conservative posters like the N.Y. Post among other egregious examples.
Sure, where? Any quote or timestamp? Or just take your word that it happened?
It seems to me that your criticism ought to be directed at Twitter. Are you claiming that Trump somehow bamboozled them ?
Sure, they're on the list too for acting too late: they could have shut down the outright lies during the 2016 primary run, the birther stuff prior to that, and so on.
But this does not exempt you from the hypocrisy of "How dare they treat Trump adversely, they should ban others too! But I'm going to sweep the instances of the reverse under the rug because...reasons."
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 12:50 PM
The Congressional testimony of both is Public Record. They were both cornered and treed by Senator Cruz , among others. Should be easy to find if you are seriously interested. I think they were also undressed by Graham and Hawley.
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 12:53 PM
Sure, where? Any quote or timestamp? Or just take your word that it happened?
Sure, they're on the list too for acting too late: they could have shut down the outright lies during the 2016 primary run, the birther stuff prior to that, and so on.
But this does not exempt you from the hypocrisy of "How dare they treat Trump adversely, they should ban others too! But I'm going to sweep the instances of the reverse under the rug because...reasons."
There are a LOT of people worldwide who agree with me and are highly critical of what Twitter and Facebook did. Including many national leaders of other countries. The proper cure for Trump's lies and misstatements is more speech. Nothing wrong with showing he is lying or factually delinquent.
You are deliberately misreading my posts. I DO NOT WANT TWITTER TO BAN ANYBODY except for groups or tweeters that almost everyone can agree are beyond the bounds of anything resembling civil discourse or basic decency e.g. Nazis ; Islamic terrorists - any terrorist for that matter ; Anti-Semites ; The KKK and other avowed racists; Holocaust deniers ; NAMBLA and other child molesters etc. An argument can be made for banning QAnon and the Proud Boys. They are Trump supporters. They are not Trump.
kamiliam
01-13-2021, 01:05 PM
The Congressional testimony of both is Public Record. They were both cornered and treed by Senator Cruz , among others. Should be easy to find if you are seriously interested. I think they were also undressed by Graham and Hawley.
If you make a claim, it is your responsibility to back it up.
dpacrkk
01-13-2021, 01:08 PM
There are a LOT of people worldwide who agree with me and are highly critical of what Twitter and Facebook did.
Cool. And there are a lot of people worldwide that agree the world is flat, the moon landing didn't happen, COVID-19 is a hoax, etc.
Including many national leaders of other countries.
I can't be alone in thinking this is hilarious: we had four years of one of the major parties not caring about what the international community thinks and slogans like "America First." But as soon as it suits them, suddenly part of the argument is "some of the international community agrees too!"
The proper cure for Trump's lies and misstatements is more speech. Nothing wrong with showing he is lying or factually delinquent.
Amend it to more factual speech/content and I could probably agree. Having more outright lies to incense people doesn't seem all that valuable to me.
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 01:12 PM
As long as Twitter limits their censorship to speakers and ideas that you do not like or agree with then what they do is acceptable ?
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 01:14 PM
If you make a claim, it is your responsibility to back it up.
I did. The transcripts and video of their testimony under questioning by Ted Cruz ( among others ) is public record and easily available. Their actions clearly constituted content based editing making them publishers. Please see The New York Post 11/17/20 ; Foxnews.com and pjmedia.com. The actual video is all over the net.
Zuckerberg was more clever and coy and tried not to commit himself.
Eric Stoner
01-13-2021, 01:15 PM
Cool. And there are a lot of people worldwide that agree the world is flat, the moon landing didn't happen, COVID-19 is a hoax, etc.
I can't be alone in thinking this is hilarious: we had four years of one of the major parties not caring about what the international community thinks and slogans like "America First." But as soon as it suits them, suddenly part of the argument is "some of the international community agrees too!"
Amend it to more factual speech/content and I could probably agree. Having more outright lies to incense people doesn't seem all that valuable to me.
I was referring tp prominent public figures who believe in free speech . I leave the tin hat crowd to others.
dpacrkk
01-13-2021, 01:26 PM
As long as Twitter limits their censorship to speakers and ideas that you do not like or agree with then what they do is acceptable ?
No. I have never stated this. Give people some limited number of opportunities to retract their claims when it's been proven to be factually incorrect, but if they don't comply get rid of any and all habitual liars. We had nearly five years of repeated lying since the 2016 primary; maybe the division wouldn't be as bad if people didn't fall for obvious garbage or Googled for 10 seconds instead of being happy to confirm their biases and get outraged (this applies to both major parties).
I was referring tp prominent public figures who believe in free speech . I leave the tin hat crowd to others.
You are ignoring the fact that free speech is only guaranteed by Congress. Nonetheless, the principle is the same: we had four years of one of the major parties not caring about what the international community thinks and slogans like "America First." But as soon as it suits them, suddenly part of the argument is "some of the international community agrees too!"
dpacrkk
01-13-2021, 01:42 PM
You are deliberately misreading my posts. I DO NOT WANT TWITTER TO BAN ANYBODY except for groups or tweeters that almost everyone can agree are beyond the bounds of anything resembling civil discourse or basic decency e.g. Nazis ; Islamic terrorists - any terrorist for that matter ; Anti-Semites ; The KKK and other avowed racists; Holocaust deniers ; NAMBLA and other child molesters etc. An argument can be made for banning QAnon and the Proud Boys. They are Trump supporters. They are not Trump.
Fine then change instances of "ban" to "punish," "penalize," "discipline," or whatever you want.
jack0177057
01-13-2021, 02:17 PM
As long as Twitter limits their censorship to speakers and ideas that you do not like or agree with then what they do is acceptable ?
Alt-right nutjobs have their own social platforms, e.g., Parlor. Parlor will censor liberal views, because, it is a alt right wing platform. Does that upset you at all? It doesn't bother me at all. They can have their own little social platform to gripe and whine about the loss of their white privilege.
Fox news will censor liberal views, because, it is a right-wing news channel. Does that upset you at all? It doesn't bother me at all. They can further brainwash people that are already brainwashed.
You can start your own platform and censor anyone you like. Its YOUR platform.
Anyone who complains about the decisions of the PRIVATE social platforms to censor extremism is an enemy of the capitalism. Twitter, Facebook, etc., have made a business decision to be mainstream and politically neutral in order to appeal to the most people and maximize their profit potential. There is no law that commands that all private social platforms must be politically neutral. Twitter, Facebook, etc., have made a choice to be political neutral. However, neutrality becomes impossible when people start using their platforms to spread hate, violence and lies, because, the platform becomes a tool for hate groups. Never mind the ethical issues with this. The real problem from a business standpoint is - would you risk alienating and losing 50% of your customers, because of stupid shit that your 5% nutjob customers say or do? Of course not, you would rather lose the 5% nutjob customers. Let them leave and go to Parlor. This is simple business math. This is simple capitalism logic. If you do not like it, you do not like capitalism. But, communism and dictatorships are heavy into censorship, so, I do not know where you go from here.
eagle2
01-13-2021, 03:08 PM
There are plenty of examples across the political spectrum of people having to pay a price for supporting Trump ; for just doing their duty; for opposing Trump ; for praising him ; for criticizing him. None of it is right.
As far as the illegal entry children, I have asked you before ( without any response ) what should have been done with them ? Whose fault is it that they came or were brought to the U.S. illegally ? It wasn't Trump's idea.
Children who enter with their parents should stay with their parents.
I'm sorry but you are NOT entitled to your own facts. It is historically true that Obama started detaining illegal entry children. At first , under Trump, the Border Patrol was stuck with the same inadequate detention facilities they had to work with when Obama was in charge. The problem was more acute under Trump because A. he established a Zero Tolerance policy and B. there was a greater influx of minors on his watch.
Under Obama, only children who entered the country without their parents were temporarily placed in detention detention centers, and released to HHS within 72 hours, as the law requires. Obama's policy was to make every effort to keep families together, and only separate families as a last resort. Trump started a new policy of forcibly removing children from parents for all families attempting to enter the US, including families who were legally seeking asylum. Some of these children were placed in detention for weeks or months at a time, which is against the law. The conditions in these detention centers were so horrific, that some of these children died. There's one case of a teenage boy dying on the bathroom floor, because the staff refused to send him to the hospital. Children were not provided with basic necessities, including soap, toothbrushes, and blankets. In some cases, parents were deported while the children remained here. There is no limit to Trump's cruelty. He's a very sick sociopath.
I know I am going to take hits for this but I really don't care all that much. Not beyond a basic human empathy. Not compared to my concern for native born Americans and those who came here legally. My focus is on WHO took them across the border ? It wasn't Trump.
The small children who were brought here with their parents were not responsible, and should not be the ones punished. You don't know what the family's situation was to cause them to come here. I'm sorry, but there is something wrong with you if you don't see anything wrong with two and three year old children being forcibly removed from the parents and thrown in detention centers, where they're kept in horrible conditions, with no formal supervision. I understand that in a democracy, I'm not always going to get my way in elections, and it's very possible that the elected president's views may be very different than mine, but I expect at least some sense of decency from the POTUS. I've come to detest Trump for his cruelty and complete indifference to the suffering of others. He belongs in prison, not the White House.
eagle2
01-13-2021, 03:11 PM
You are deliberately misreading my posts. I DO NOT WANT TWITTER TO BAN ANYBODY except for groups or tweeters that almost everyone can agree are beyond the bounds of anything resembling civil discourse or basic decency e.g. Nazis ; Islamic terrorists - any terrorist for that matter ; Anti-Semites ; The KKK and other avowed racists; Holocaust deniers ; NAMBLA and other child molesters etc. An argument can be made for banning QAnon and the Proud Boys. They are Trump supporters. They are not Trump.
Trump is a terrorist. I'm glad you agree he should be banned.
eagle2
01-13-2021, 03:21 PM
There are a LOT of people worldwide who agree with me and are highly critical of what Twitter and Facebook did. Including many national leaders of other countries. The proper cure for Trump's lies and misstatements is more speech. Nothing wrong with showing he is lying or factually delinquent.
Not when Trump's statements lead to people being killed and murdered.
eagle2
01-13-2021, 04:00 PM
Eric,
A DOJ lawyer even wrote an apology for helping to enable Trump's policies, and said she was wrong not to quit from the start.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/opinion/trump-justice-department-lawyer.html
dpacrkk
01-13-2021, 04:18 PM
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e046f2834ea3cb07170dbac42959a6af
miss.a.p1600
01-13-2021, 07:08 PM
Children who enter with their parents should stay with their parents.
Under Obama, only children who entered the country without their parents were temporarily placed in detention detention centers, and released to HHS within 72 hours, as the law requires. Obama's policy was to make every effort to keep families together, and only separate families as a last resort. Trump started a new policy of forcibly removing children from parents for all families attempting to enter the US, including families who were legally seeking asylum. Some of these children were placed in detention for weeks or months at a time, which is against the law. The conditions in these detention centers were so horrific, that some of these children died. There's one case of a teenage boy dying on the bathroom floor, because the staff refused to send him to the hospital. Children were not provided with basic necessities, including soap, toothbrushes, and blankets. In some cases, parents were deported while the children remained here. There is no limit to Trump's cruelty. He's a very sick sociopath.
The small children who were brought here with their parents were not responsible, and should not be the ones punished. You don't know what the family's situation was to cause them to come here. I'm sorry, but there is something wrong with you if you don't see anything wrong with two and three year old children being forcibly removed from the parents and thrown in detention centers, where they're kept in horrible conditions, with no formal supervision. I understand that in a democracy, I'm not always going to get my way in elections, and it's very possible that the elected president's views may be very different than mine, but I expect at least some sense of decency from the POTUS. I've come to detest Trump for his cruelty and complete indifference to the suffering of others. He belongs in prison, not the White House.
He belongs to the streets!
miss.a.p1600
01-13-2021, 08:12 PM
Trump is a terrorist. I'm glad you agree he should be banned.
and a sexual predator, a 4 time baby daddy, a philanderer, a clout chaser, a thirsty attention seeker, a liar, manipulator, n more