View Full Version : 2k Stimulus Money?
Eric Stoner
03-15-2021, 07:50 AM
Are you saying that receiving a couple grand over the course of a year is going to keep people who could be earning tens of thousands of dollars a year from working?
Again like Kamiliam pointed out, what is the quick and efficient vetting process for the over 300,000,000 Americans going to look like?
Like what? Paying prisoners with no dependents was done twice by the Republicans, so I'm curious what the other examples are.
The bill was presented as a "Covid Relief " bill. Very little of the $1.9 Trillion goes to Covid relief , vaccinations etc.
The bill in effect pays people up to 120% of their earnings . It rewards states that have had the strictest lockdowns and the highest unemployment ; it incentivizes job and business killing measures in Blue States.
The economy was poised for 4% growth this year without this pork laden legislation.
LoveyDovey
03-15-2021, 08:17 AM
I've been using the Get My Payment tool to check my status but keep getting this "Need more info-we're working on it" BS. Anyone else? I got my first 2 checks, just waiting on my 3rd here...
Genoveve
03-15-2021, 01:07 PM
Very little of the $1.9 Trillion goes to Covid relief , vaccinations etc.
Why were you under the impression that this wouldn't be the case? And aside from vaccines, what is non-economic, solely medical Covid relief?
The bill in effect pays people up to 120% of their earnings
Pays who this and in what effect?
It rewards states that have had the strictest lockdowns and the highest unemployment
Wouldn't those states be the ones that need relief the most?
eagle2
03-15-2021, 07:49 PM
Everybody LOVES "free" money. Wait until the bill is presented. When inflation eats away at savings. When taxes go up to put a dent in the deficits.
You were making dire predictions about inflation with Bernanke's QE policy, and it never exceeded 2 - 3 percent over the following decade. Most of the stimulus spending is temporary, so it won't lead to permanent increases in deficits, and will probably over the long term reduce them, by increasing economic growth and decreasing unemployment.
It's going to get worse if Biden puts together an Infrastructure Bill. Historically such bills rack up massive debt and do not deliver the infrastructure improvements that they were supposed to. Bureaucrats make lousy project managers. Especially in the Northeast and Midwest. One reason taxes are so high in N.Y. , N.J. , Illinois and Caliphonia is to pay for all the bonds that were issued to fix our "crumbling infrastructure " over the past 20 years. Btw, there is a proposal to raise N.Y.'s Income Tax to a combined 15.5% for both State and City taxes. ( They must be trying to expedite the exodus of the super-rich who pay most of the income taxes in the first place. )Then we've had things like Solyndra ; "tunnels to nowhere " and try to recall how many "shovel ready" jobs were created back in 2009 by Biden , Pelosi , Obama et. all in response to the Financial Crisis. Obama's $800 billion "Recovery and Reinvestment Act " did nothing to stimulate the economy and instead encouraged reckless state and local government spending. Who really benefitted were big banks and private equity forms who underwrote and sold all the bonds that were written. If infrastructure bills were so successful then why is our infrastructure falling apart after so much spending ? Why is California's high speed rail limited to a stretch between Merced and Bakersfield ?
There have been many successful infrastructure projects since World War 2, including our national highway system and most of our airports. New York City's Water Tunnel No. 3, one of the largest infrastructure projects in history, is close to completion. You can thank the planners for your access to clean water. Electrification of the NE rail corridor to Boston reduced travel time from New York City to Boston by one hour, by rail. I haven't followed California's HSR project too closely, but I think the people in charge are incompetent. Florida's new rail line seems to be coming along okay. I think they're also planning to build a HSR line in TX, but I'm not sure if they started working on it yet. The Recovery and Reinvestment Act was successful in stopping the economic decline, but the economic growth was slow because it wasn't large enough, and the sequestration slowed economic growth even more. That's why Biden is going bigger. Our economy was on a downward trend in 2009, until the stimulus program was implemented, and the economy started to trend upward.
https://i.imgur.com/JgQW6Ch.jpg
The Recovery and Reinvestment Act went into effect 2nd quarter. Notice how the economy began to trend upward right when it went live.
naomi_doll
03-15-2021, 07:57 PM
I've been using the Get My Payment tool to check my status but keep getting this "Need more info-we're working on it" BS. Anyone else? I got my first 2 checks, just waiting on my 3rd here...
A lot of banks are going to post it on Wednesday, so if you got direct deposit for the first two I bet you’ll see it then. :)
miss.a.p1600
03-15-2021, 08:57 PM
Everybody LOVES "free" money. Wait until the bill is presented. When inflation eats away at savings. When taxes go up to put a dent in the deficits.
It's going to get worse if Biden puts together an Infrastructure Bill. Historically such bills rack up massive debt and do not deliver the infrastructure improvements that they were supposed to. Bureaucrats make lousy project managers. Especially in the Northeast and Midwest. One reason taxes are so high in N.Y. , N.J. , Illinois and Caliphonia is to pay for all the bonds that were issued to fix our "crumbling infrastructure " over the past 20 years. Btw, there is a proposal to raise N.Y.'s Income Tax to a combined 15.5% for both State and City taxes. ( They must be trying to expedite the exodus of the super-rich who pay most of the income taxes in the first place. )Then we've had things like Solyndra ; "tunnels to nowhere " and try to recall how many "shovel ready" jobs were created back in 2009 by Biden , Pelosi , Obama et. all in response to the Financial Crisis. Obama's $800 billion "Recovery and Reinvestment Act " did nothing to stimulate the economy and instead encouraged reckless state and local government spending. Who really benefitted were big banks and private equity forms who underwrote and sold all the bonds that were written. If infrastructure bills were so successful then why is our infrastructure falling apart after so much spending ? Why is California's high speed rail limited to a stretch between Merced and Bakersfield ?
Wise people know that NOTHING in life is free
Taxes? I’m running the Donald Trump Pay Zero Taxes playbook.
LoveyDovey
03-16-2021, 05:20 AM
A lot of banks are going to post it on Wednesday, so if you got direct deposit for the first two I bet you’ll see it then. :)
I didn't receive dds for the last 2. I got checks/cards so I'm thinking that may be it. They may have yet to process it. I'm not that worried (yet).
LoveyDovey
03-16-2021, 05:22 AM
I got this lol
Eric Stoner
03-16-2021, 08:45 AM
You were making dire predictions about inflation with Bernanke's QE policy, and it never exceeded 2 - 3 percent over the following decade. Most of the stimulus spending is temporary, so it won't lead to permanent increases in deficits, and will probably over the long term reduce them, by increasing economic growth and decreasing unemployment.
There have been many successful infrastructure projects since World War 2, including our national highway system and most of our airports. New York City's Water Tunnel No. 3, one of the largest infrastructure projects in history, is close to completion. You can thank the planners for your access to clean water. Electrification of the NE rail corridor to Boston reduced travel time from New York City to Boston by one hour, by rail. I haven't followed California's HSR project too closely, but I think the people in charge are incompetent. Florida's new rail line seems to be coming along okay. I think they're also planning to build a HSR line in TX, but I'm not sure if they started working on it yet. The Recovery and Reinvestment Act was successful in stopping the economic decline, but the economic growth was slow because it wasn't large enough, and the sequestration slowed economic growth even more. That's why Biden is going bigger. Our economy was on a downward trend in 2009, until the stimulus program was implemented, and the economy started to trend upward.
https://i.imgur.com/JgQW6Ch.jpg
The Recovery and Reinvestment Act went into effect 2nd quarter. Notice how the economy began to trend upward right when it went live.
Eagle - this is where we have to agree to disagree before we get into dueling stats and figures. Let's spare our fellow board members the usual , hackneyed debate between you and I.
As to infrastructure, you are half right. We USED to be able to build things in this country. With relative efficiency and utility. Nowadays it is next to impossible. Union work rules , featherbedding , mandatory sinecures , environmental reviews and studies aside from the usual greed , graft and corruption make modern infrastructure projects in this country adventures in cost overruns and creative delay. Please name just one major project that was completed on time and within its budget from the last decade.
That being said , it doesn't mean we should just throw up our hands and not do them. We ought to try to do them much more efficiently and less wastefully.
Eric Stoner
03-16-2021, 08:46 AM
Wise people know that NOTHING in life is free
Taxes? I’m running the Donald Trump Pay Zero Taxes playbook.
Are you ? Please tell us how you are doing it.
Eric Stoner
03-16-2021, 09:04 AM
Why were you under the impression that this wouldn't be the case? And aside from vaccines, what is non-economic, solely medical Covid relief?
Pays who this and in what effect?
Wouldn't those states be the ones that need relief the most?
I believe in truth in advertising. This is not a Covid relief bill. It is a reward for bad government policy plus a reward for bad pension management ( it has over $80 billion to bail out badly managed private union pension funds ). If that money were going to bail out private hedge funds that made lousy investments how many S-Webbers would be in favor ? Large Blue states and cities need help because they were ALL in serious fiscal trouble long BEFORE Covid. ALL were looking at major budget shortfalls from too much spending and declining revenues. Some states actually did better than expected on the revenue side ( N.Y. ) but their spending is still out of control. This bill removes any incentive for them to get their fiscal houses in order. It requires the taxpayers of mostly Red states who are doing much better economically ( thanks primarily to shorter and softer shutdowns ) to subsidize bad behavior.
eagle2
03-16-2021, 09:06 AM
Eagle - this is where we have to agree to disagree before we get into dueling stats and figures. Let's spare our fellow board members the usual , hackneyed debate between you and I.
As to infrastructure, you are half right. We USED to be able to build things in this country. With relative efficiency and utility. Nowadays it is next to impossible. Union work rules , featherbedding , mandatory sinecures , environmental reviews and studies aside from the usual greed , graft and corruption make modern infrastructure projects in this country adventures in cost overruns and creative delay. Please name just one major project that was completed on time and within its budget from the last decade.
That being said , it doesn't mean we should just throw up our hands and not do them. We ought to try to do them much more efficiently and less wastefully.
I think New York City's new water tunnel has been moving along on time and on budget. Also the La Guardia Airport renovations.
Eric Stoner
03-16-2021, 11:31 AM
I think New York City's new water tunnel has been moving along on time and on budget. Also the La Guardia Airport renovations.
I don't know about the water tunnel but LaGuardia is already behind schedule and over budget. And Andrew's Bridge aka The Mario Cuomo had defective bolts. And while on time ( more or less ) was over budget. For contrast and comparison look at the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and Tunnel. It was twinned on time and within the budget. Like 20 years ago.
Genoveve
03-16-2021, 11:47 AM
I believe in truth in advertising. This is not a Covid relief bill. It is a reward for bad government policy plus a reward for bad pension management ( it has over $80 billion to bail out badly managed private union pension funds ). If that money were going to bail out private hedge funds that made lousy investments how many S-Webbers would be in favor ? Large Blue states and cities need help because they were ALL in serious fiscal trouble long BEFORE Covid. ALL were looking at major budget shortfalls from too much spending and declining revenues. Some states actually did better than expected on the revenue side ( N.Y. ) but their spending is still out of control. This bill removes any incentive for them to get their fiscal houses in order. It requires the taxpayers of mostly Red states who are doing much better economically ( thanks primarily to shorter and softer shutdowns ) to subsidize bad behavior.
I still don’t understand who is getting paid to not work?
Genoveve
03-16-2021, 11:59 AM
Are you basically saying that the bailouts for the states with strict lockdowns = people in the strict states being paid to not work?
DeathAndTaxes
03-16-2021, 02:19 PM
I am a proponent of universal basic income, so the idea that you are paid to not work is tangential, you are paid to survive, work would be for luxury goods.
eagle2
03-16-2021, 03:43 PM
I don't know about the water tunnel but LaGuardia is already behind schedule and over budget. And Andrew's Bridge aka The Mario Cuomo had defective bolts. And while on time ( more or less ) was over budget. For contrast and comparison look at the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and Tunnel. It was twinned on time and in budget. Like 20 years ago.
I don't know if this is accurate or not, but from:
https://metroairportnews.com/vintage-airport-made-anew/
The men and women in the construction trades have worked tirelessly on this project and delivered it on time and on budget.
Raziel
03-16-2021, 04:11 PM
1400$ just isn't enough. The average American might be able to put food on the table and pay their rent once. Now if it was 1400$ a month till the pandemic expires, that would be one thing. But as it stands, it's a band-aid. For a lot of Americans, they make 7.25$ an hour, which is not a livable wage. Some states have a bit higher minimum wage, but a lot do not.
eagle2
03-16-2021, 05:24 PM
I believe in truth in advertising. This is not a Covid relief bill. It is a reward for bad government policy plus a reward for bad pension management ( it has over $80 billion to bail out badly managed private union pension funds ). If that money were going to bail out private hedge funds that made lousy investments how many S-Webbers would be in favor ? Large Blue states and cities need help because they were ALL in serious fiscal trouble long BEFORE Covid. ALL were looking at major budget shortfalls from too much spending and declining revenues. Some states actually did better than expected on the revenue side ( N.Y. ) but their spending is still out of control. This bill removes any incentive for them to get their fiscal houses in order. It requires the taxpayers of mostly Red states who are doing much better economically ( thanks primarily to shorter and softer shutdowns ) to subsidize bad behavior.
California has a $15 billion surplus.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-08/california-weighs-how-to-spend-surprise-windfall-in-a-pandemic
Florida is facing a $2.1 billion budget shortfall
https://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/2021/01/15/florida-lawmakers-face-21-billion-budget-shortfall/
Most blue states pay a lot more in federal taxes than they get back from the federal government. Most red states get more from the federal government than they pay in taxes. They also pay much less tax per person.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/opinion/cc-op-zirpoli-050620-20200506-7ya7okjfk5btdpysnrnrfouyz4-story.html
A 2017 study by the Rockefeller Institute of Government found that traditional blue states like Connecticut ($15,643), Massachusetts ($13,582), New Jersey ($13,137), New York ($12,820), and California ($10,510), contributed significantly more in federal taxes, per citizen, than traditional red states like Mississippi ($5,740), West Virginia ($6,349), Kentucky ($6,626), and South Carolina ($6,665).
Not only do some states contribute more to the federal budget than others, but some also receive less from the federal government in return. On average, each of our 50 states receives about $1.14 from the federal government for every tax dollar they send to Washington.
This is why our federal government runs a deficit every year. The traditional red states mentioned above, however, receive more — much more. For example, Mississippi received $2.13 for every tax dollar it sends to Washington by way of federal taxes, West Virginia $2.07, Kentucky $1.90, and South Carolina $1.71.
For some large traditional blue states, California receives only 96 cents, Massachusetts 83 cents, Connecticut 82 cents, New York 81 cents, and New Jersey 74 cents for every tax dollar they sent to Washington. The discrepancy is significant.
In a 2020 update from the Rockefeller Institute, the disparity between traditional blue and red states is even more significant, especially for the state of New York, Republicans' favorite target when it comes to budgets, taxes, and spending.
“New York continues to spend more in (federal) taxes than it received back. In 2018, we estimate $22 billion, which is larger than the next two states. Over the past four years, New York taxpayers have given $116 billion (an average of over $29 billion annually) more to the federal government than they received back in federal spending” the report states.
In fact, New York contributes more revenue to the federal budget than any state in the nation. Other blue states, such as New Jersey, comes in second place, Massachusetts third, Connecticut fourth, and Colorado fifth.
If anything, it's the blue states that are subsidizing bad behavior.
moneybags
03-16-2021, 08:09 PM
Too funny. I keep refreshing the page...lol. I’ll get it eventually. I’ll get mine mailed to me. I don’t trust the government with my bank account information. Thanks for the money, but the government can go to hell after all the bullshit they put us through to get this $1400 check. I’m going to pay off one of my credit cards and invest the rest in some much needed self care. I feel like we’re all children in a bad divorce case.
miss.a.p1600
03-16-2021, 08:35 PM
^i wouldn’t trust them with that either cause they can deduct from your account just easily as they added to it.
TheBrownFox
03-16-2021, 10:13 PM
I checked my bank account just now, and they've sent me $2,800.
I'm glad they did it via direct deposit. I've been hearing about people getting other people's stimulus checks in their mailboxes. And I've also gotten what looked like someone else's W2, some guy's child support mail, etc. That plus the fact that the mail has been slow as fuck lately (I'm hoping the guy I mailed panties to gets it soon).
For some reason, the Maryland Relief Check ($500) I got recently was issued via paper check.
eagle2
03-16-2021, 10:54 PM
I'm glad they did it via direct deposit. I've been hearing about people getting other people's stimulus checks in their mailboxes. And I've also gotten what looked like someone else's W2, some guy's child support mail, etc. That plus the fact that the mail has been slow as fuck lately (I'm hoping the guy I mailed panties to gets it soon).
You should probably ask for a tracking number when you send something like that. Also, FedEx ground is more reliable, and sometimes cost less than USPS.
miss.a.p1600
03-17-2021, 04:55 AM
Just woke up to that stimulus
Yasss!!!!
Chilean sea bass and elderberry essence white wine for everyone!
Eric Stoner
03-17-2021, 08:02 AM
I still don’t understand who is getting paid to not work?
Teachers for one. State and city workers.
Eric Stoner
03-17-2021, 08:07 AM
I was focusing mostly on fiscally healthy Red States like Florida , Texas , Idaho , North Dakota etc. that are 1. gaining population and 2. have growing economies.
miss.a.p1600
03-17-2021, 09:06 AM
Teachers for one. State and city workers.
Um idk where you live but the private schools been back and the public schools just went back not too long ago.
Even before the schools opened the teachers were required to do virtual classes.
I actually felt sorry for the teachers trying to regulate those bad ass bay bay kids over virtual.
Genoveve
03-17-2021, 10:08 AM
Teachers for one. State and city workers.
How? And up to 120% of their income?
Are you talking about teachers being paid to teach remotely and the paid pandemic leave for state and city workers?
kamiliam
03-17-2021, 10:18 AM
Teachers and city workers were being paid and many were working the whole time just remotely, the city workers I know that had to go on unemployment were not making 120% to not work. Did you look into that figure or just hear someone say it?
Eric Stoner
03-17-2021, 10:51 AM
Read the bill.
Genoveve
03-17-2021, 11:01 AM
^^^Which part?
TheBrownFox
03-17-2021, 11:03 AM
You should probably ask for a tracking number when you send something like that. Also, FedEx ground is more reliable, and sometimes cost less than USPS.
No, it's fine. I mail it myself using a bubble mailer and stamps I already have, and I don't put my address on it. My regular gets it just fine. I don't deal with those extra services unless I have to. That'd just be money wasted (On a bus ride to get there too...I don't drive) when I already have the needed materials here.
kamiliam
03-17-2021, 11:22 AM
Read the bill.
the only time I saw 120% was in relation to debt relief for minority farmers. Could you please clarify?
Eric Stoner
03-17-2021, 11:34 AM
the only time I saw 120% was in relation to debt relief for minority farmers. Could you please clarify?
Correct. I got a little careless and didn't make it clear that I was referring to the discriminatory debt relief provisions for minority farmers. I don't know if it will pass Constitutional muster. Maybe. It shouldn't but it might.
LoveyDovey
03-31-2021, 09:31 AM
Still waiting for my stimulus to arrive in the mail. Anyone else?
xxxGothBarbie
03-31-2021, 03:43 PM
Still waiting for my stimulus to arrive in the mail. Anyone else?
Alot of ppl are. I think they are a bit backed up in the system.
LoveyDovey
03-31-2021, 03:49 PM
^^ Oy.