View Full Version : Congressmen Helped Stop The Steal founder Ali Alexander
Eric Stoner
01-18-2021, 11:40 AM
Yeah, he shot at them because they kicked his door in and didn't say "HEY, WE'RE COPS!." What part of that do you not understand? I'd have thought they were home invaders and shot back at them in an instant. They were NOT in uniform.
These guy are too stupid to be Cops.
Bet me. They always get hired again. I think you're being naive.
STOP Personalizing ! Please read the recent posts from our benevolent and tolerant Moderator on this very topic.
I am not arguing with you that the police involved are stupid and incompetent. We saw a similar situation in Chicago where they busted into a woman's apartment with no justification.
Breonna's boyfriend was not being fired on when he opened fire. He is not blameless.
As far as getting hired by another department. Possible but not very likely.
SnuffleUffleGrass
01-18-2021, 11:42 AM
I'm not surprised a Congressperson did something bad or unethical. This Q Anon mess got way worse than I ever imagined it could. Gross....
Eric Stoner
01-18-2021, 11:47 AM
This is what I mean by systematic racism https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565
Oh dear. I see you've drunk the Kool-Aid that the U.S. was founded of , for and by racists. The whole "1619 Project" barnyard excrement that has been debunked by every reputable historian that looks at it.
I'm sorry but I reject the whole premise of that whole " The U.S. is evil " and "it owes reparations to the whole world " mind set..
Nothing personal but I reject the fever swamp that cooks up such nonsense. It doesn't get us anywhere . It is designed to make whites feel guilty for any and all success they may have. It's a mental "Get out of Jail Free" card for any person of color that may not have enjoyed all the success they would have liked and insists on blaming somebody else. I think Robin DiAngelo is FOS , intellectually dishonest , possibly insane or maybe she is just laughing all the way to the bank.
This whole White Privilege , White Fragility ,critical race theory school of thought (sic) is a crock.
I've worked for everything I've got. I never owned a slave and neither did any of my ancestors. I don't owe anyone a nickel in reparations and the only ones that do IMO are Libs for promoting lousy schools and inhibiting entrepreneurship. Those are the true ways out of poverty. For some reason too many American born Blacks chose to emulate the Irish and pursue political power rather than economic power. That worked well for the black elite and black politicians ; not so much for black folks as a whole. The fact remains that Caribbean Blacks and African blacks outperform the native born. Why ? They don't drop out of high school as often ; don't commit crimes as often ; don't get pregnant out of wedlock as much and they tend to live in two parent families. Even IF the U.S. is the terrible racist place that some want to think it is, then how do they explain social phenomena as I've just laid out ? Why do blacks living outside the U.S. want to emigrate here if it is so bad , so racist ? Who is brainwashing them to want to come here and how exactly are they doing that ?
miss.a.p1600
01-18-2021, 11:53 AM
Neither does gaslighting.....If ignoring the realities is what makes you feel better at night....so be it.
What allegedly reputable historians are you referring to???
And nowhere in that article - that you clearly didn't read - did it say anything about everyone in the US being evil nor 'reparations'. The article said "resistance to racism must also be everywhere if we are to combat it"....
Prime example of systematic racism is extremist far-right Ali Alexander paying GOP congressmen
Whites should not feel guilty if they aren't contributing to racism, pretending racism (systematic or otherwise) doesn't exist, etc
SnuffleUffleGrass
01-18-2021, 12:01 PM
Oh dear. I see you've drunk the Kool-Aid that the U.S. was founded of , for and by racists. The whole "1619 Project" barnyard excrement that has been debunked by every reputable historian that looks at it.
I'm sorry but I reject the whole premise of that whole " The U.S. is evil " and "it owes reparations to the whole world ".
Nothing personal but I reject that whole mind-set that cooks up such nonsense. It doesn't get us anywhere . It is designed to make whites feel guilty for any and all success they may have. It's a mental "Get out of Jail Free" card for any person of color that may not have enjoyed all the success they would have liked and insists on blaming somebody else.
The US was founded by the land greedy offspring of the Puritan settlers and some party animal land owners. I wish we would stop sanitizing the nitty gritty of US history, the naked truth of how the US was founded is so damned entertaining.
& By and large "white" Americans are not the most successful. Our current economy rewards people participating in the global economy.
Raziel
01-18-2021, 12:06 PM
STOP Personalizing
Personalizing? How the fuck was I personalizing? I never said shit about you!
Eric Stoner
01-18-2021, 12:06 PM
I'm not surprised a Congressperson did something bad or unethical. This Q Anon mess got way worse than I ever imagined it could. Gross....
Any proof ?. Any evidence ? Anything at all.
Eric Stoner
01-18-2021, 12:08 PM
Personalizing? How the fuck was I personalizing? I never said shit about you!
To me patronizing is personalizing. Re-read your post. You were definitely patronizing. I understand the facts of the Breonna Taylor shooting and don't need your help to do so. I am just less knee jerk in what conclusions I choose to draw from same.
Eric Stoner
01-18-2021, 12:16 PM
The US was founded by the land greedy offspring of the Puritan settlers and some party animal land owners. I wish we would stop sanitizing the nitty gritty of US history, the naked truth of how the US was founded is so damned entertaining.
& By and large "white" Americans are not the most successful. Our current economy rewards people participating in the global economy.
Oh it is. I agree 100%. Nobody got me angrier in the 80's and 90's than the Gablers. Two ignorant , self appointed nit wits who insisted on dumbing down and sanitizing history textbooks in the Texas school system. Since Texas bought more school books than anyone else these two nutty know-nothing Christers were given outsized influence on what the mush filled skulls of Texas and sometimes the whole country could read. I certainly believe in a "warts and all " approach to history. Inter alia , it is more interesting. Secondly it humanizes our founding fathers to take them off their pedestals and look at them in normal light.
miss.a.p1600
01-18-2021, 12:19 PM
Oh dear. I see you've drunk the Kool-Aid that the U.S. was founded of , for and by racists. The whole "1619 Project" barnyard excrement that has been debunked by every reputable historian that looks at it.
I'm sorry but I reject the whole premise of that whole " The U.S. is evil " and "it owes reparations to the whole world " mind set..
Nothing personal but I reject the fever swamp that cooks up such nonsense. It doesn't get us anywhere . It is designed to make whites feel guilty for any and all success they may have. It's a mental "Get out of Jail Free" card for any person of color that may not have enjoyed all the success they would have liked and insists on blaming somebody else. I think Robin DiAngelo is FOS , intellectually dishonest , possibly insane or maybe she is just laughing all the way to the bank.
This whole White Privilege , White Fragility ,critical race theory school of thought (sic) is a crock.
I've worked for everything I've got. I never owned a slave and neither did any of my ancestors. I don't owe anyone a nickel in reparations and the only ones that do IMO are Libs for promoting lousy schools and inhibiting entrepreneurship. Those are the true ways out of poverty. For some reason too many American born Blacks chose to emulate the Irish and pursue political power rather than economic power. That worked well for the black elite and black politicians ; not so much for black folks as a whole. The fact remains that Caribbean Blacks and African blacks outperform the native born. Why ? They don't drop out of high school as often ; don't commit crimes as often ; don't get pregnant out of wedlock as much and they tend to live in two parent families. Even IF the U.S. is the terrible racist place that some want to think it is, then how do they explain social phenomena as I've just laid out ? Why do blacks living outside the U.S. want to emigrate here if it is so bad , so racist ? Who is brainwashing them to want to come here and how exactly are they doing that ?
Good for you!
None of us on here have owned slaves (except maybe for the dommes/subs that consent to that sort of thing) or been slaves but some of us may come from descendants of slaves or slave owners
You're talking in circles to (what seems to me) ignore the troubling fact that extremists/supremacist can and do perpetuate systemic racism by holding positions of power or paying people in positions of power.
One lead organizer of last week's "Stop the Steal" rally that morphed into an attack against the U.S. Capitol claims that GOP congressmen Paul Gosar and Andy Biggs of Arizona, and congressman Mo Brooks of Alabama all participated in planning of the Jan. 6 catastrophe.
https://www.complex.com/life/2021/01/stop-the-steal-organizer-says-several-gop-congressman-helped-plan-rally
Screenshot of Paul Gosar's tweet where he insinuates coming to the Capitol to force Biden to concede then tags his alt-right extremist friend
https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1348429193579692034
Eric Stoner
01-18-2021, 12:26 PM
Neither does gaslighting.....If ignoring the realities is what makes you feel better at night....so be it.
What allegedly reputable historians are you referring to???
And nowhere in that article - that you clearly didn't read - did it say anything about everyone in the US being evil nor 'reparations'. The article said "resistance to racism must also be everywhere if we are to combat it"....
Prime example of systematic racism is extremist far-right Ali Alexander paying GOP congressmen
Whites should not feel guilty if they aren't contributing to racism, pretending racism (systematic or otherwise) doesn't exist, etc
What REALITY ? What systematic or systemic racism are you referring to ? Besides white guilt for things that happened At LEAST 60 years ago , if not 150 years ago, 200 and 300 years ago ? The N.Y. Times 1619 Project was repudiated by almost every reputable historian and history professor that looked at it. It was factually delinquent if not bankrupt for the author to claim inter alia that the American Revolution was motivated to promote and perpetuate slavery. Starting with FDR the U.S. has been Anti-Colonial and pressured Britain, France and The Netherlands to grant independence to their former colonies.
You claim that there is systemic and/or systematic racism in the U.S. For those like me who perhaps don't always know it when they see it, would you please give some concrete examples of what you are referring to ?
Eric Stoner
01-18-2021, 12:39 PM
Good for you!
None of us on here have owned slaves (except maybe for the dommes/subs that consent to that sort of thing) or been slaves but some of us may come from descendants of slaves or slave owners
You're talking in circles to (what seems to me) ignore the troubling fact that extremists/supremacist can and do perpetuate systemic racism by holding positions of power or paying people in positions of power.
One lead organizer of last week's "Stop the Steal" rally that morphed into an attack against the U.S. Capitol claims that GOP congressmen Paul Gosar and Andy Biggs of Arizona, and congressman Mo Brooks of Alabama all participated in planning of the Jan. 6 catastrophe.
https://www.complex.com/life/2021/01/stop-the-steal-organizer-says-several-gop-congressman-helped-plan-rally
Screenshot of Paul Gosar's tweet where he insinuates coming to the Capitol to force Biden to concede then tags his alt-right extremist friend
https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1348429193579692034
OK. Now we are getting somewhere. At least I am starting to understand where you coming from and what you are referring to. Two problems with your theory: 1. Trump lost and 2. The Capitol rioters are being arrested and prosecuted and whatever they hoped to accomplish obviously did not come to pass. If anything it backfired as it is being used to justify and excuse silencing of some on the right. It's AOC et. al. who are talking about reeducating and deprogramming Trump voters. All 74 Million ? Or just the racists ? How do we pick them out ?
Eric Stoner
01-18-2021, 12:45 PM
Neither does gaslighting.....If ignoring the realities is what makes you feel better at night....so be it.
What allegedly reputable historians are you referring to???
And nowhere in that article - that you clearly didn't read - did it say anything about everyone in the US being evil nor 'reparations'. The article said "resistance to racism must also be everywhere if we are to combat it"....
Prime example of systematic racism is extremist far-right Ali Alexander paying GOP congressmen
Whites should not feel guilty if they aren't contributing to racism, pretending racism (systematic or otherwise) doesn't exist, etc
As for historians debunking Nikole Hannah-Jones historical theories , we can start with the 5 authors ( ALL Ivy League Professors of History ) of the letter to the N.Y. Times that caused them to retract her theory that the American Revolution was intended to perpetuate slavery. Echoed by professor Leslie Harris who fact checked Hannah -Jones essay and told her that her theory was unsupported by historical fact. She wrote it anyway and the Times published it.
miss.a.p1600
01-18-2021, 12:51 PM
What REALITY ? What systematic or systemic racism are you referring to ? Besides white guilt for things that happened At LEAST 60 years ago , if not 150 years ago, 200 and 300 years ago ? The N.Y. Times 1619 Project was repudiated by almost every reputable historian and history professor that looked at it. It was factually delinquent if not bankrupt for the author to claim inter alia that the American Revolution was motivated to promote and perpetuate slavery. Starting with FDR the U.S. has been Anti-Colonial and pressured Britain, France and The Netherlands to grant independence to their former colonies.
You claim that there is systemic and/or systematic racism in the U.S. For those like me who perhaps don't always know it when they see it, would you please give some concrete examples of what you are referring to ?
^You can read up on race n history if you want to educate yourself on outside of your rose colored glasses
https://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness-ebook/dp/B086CFB2NT
https://www.amazon.com/White-Rage-Unspoken-Racial-Divide/dp/1632864134
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D2364N5
https://www.amazon.com/Me-White-Supremacy-Combat-Ancestor-ebook/dp/B07Y5PHNXB/
https://www.amazon.com/Things-Everyone-African-American-History/dp/038548576X/
As for historians debunking Nikole Hannah-Jones historical theories , we can start with the 5 authors ( ALL Ivy League Professors of History ) of the letter to the N.Y. Times that caused them to retract her theory that the American Revolution was intended to perpetuate slavery. Echoed by professor Leslie Harris who fact checked Hannah -Jones essay and told her that her theory was unsupported by historical fact. She wrote it anyway and the Times published it.
I'll read it.....
Eric Stoner
01-18-2021, 01:11 PM
I prefer reputable , properly researched peer reviewed HISTORY over hyperbolic, factually delinquent polemics. And btw I include Mr. O'Reilly's "Killing " series of books in that category. I read one , "Killing Patton ". Riddled with errors and featuring a completely debunked theory that Patton was assassinated by the KGB. I'll never buy another one.
That being said, there IS a Prison Industrial Complex in this country. Private prisons coupled with prison guard unions have promoted a system that over-incarcerates. Many of the reformers happen to be Conservatives who want to release non-violent drug offenders and establish "Second Chance " programs to try and break the cycle of re-arrest and reincarceration.
If THAT is what you mean by systemic racism I think you have a point. Just like the black citizens of Ferguson were considered to be a piggy bank for the local government via fines and penalties on tickets written by a mostly white police force and given out overwhelmingly to blacks. Again, a misuse of GOVERMENT. For the most part, the only color the Private Sector cares about is GREEN !
Another thing that seriously challenges critical race theory is the success of Asians in this country. Their history has not been a happy one. From economic exploitation in the 19th Century resulting in virtual slavery in some cases ; to various laws codifying discrimination particularly in the Western U.S. in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries . The culmination of which was the shame of American citizens being forced into detention camps during W.W. II. And yet , they have by and large been very successful. So much so that Harvard and other schools have quotas to LIMIT their enrollment. How ? They stayed in school, avoided jail and out of wedlock births. Community shaming plays a large role in the latter two factors. A lot of Gangsta Rap celebrates both. I would say there might be a cultural problem there . Wouldn't you ? Can you explain what role white racism plays in encouraging those kind of negative behaviors ? Or in promoting positive behaviors ? Unless you want to blame record company executives as some did in the late 80's and early 90's. Btw, whatever happened to Tipper Gore and her campaign to clean up music lyrics ?
miss.a.p1600
01-18-2021, 01:30 PM
^You read and chose to believe what helps you confirm your bias (that black people are lazy, have victim-mentality, and if they just work harder/comply with supremacist officers/avoid unplanned pregnancy despite 64% of pregnancies in US being unplanned/left their subpar hoods/schools they were born in and integrated to neighborhoods/schools where they aren't welcomed by supremacist HOA/admissions,,,,,they too can become a success ).....but I digress
Gansta Rap is no worse than Heavy metal/Hard Rock ---- its all misogynistic n promotes sex, drugs, n responsibility-free 24/7 partying with half naked women. Neither should be easily accessible to young impressionable minds
Unfortunately for those who hate rap, rapping is one way that artistic people with musical talent can improve their economic standing and give back to their impoverished communities so that they aren't denigrated by people, who think like you, who assume they're just 'lazy, not working hard enough, victim-mentality, etc' The one good thing about rap is that successful/wise rappers are turning their real experiences (many of them coming from hood areas) into music as a career that provides for them and their family
Should their be a censor on what they can/cannot say in their music? Perhaps, but I believe your belief that censoring Trump, censoring alt-right is dangerous so why would censoring rap be dangerous if heavy metal, hard rock, and worse Trumps lies isn't?
We should probably just go back to the 50's where explicit content had to be hidden in a paper bag, sold to people over 18, and you had to drive to the store to go get it.
Raziel
01-18-2021, 01:31 PM
Oh, now I'm patronizing him. Whatever Eric. First it was personalizing. Which one is it. Bro, they have two different meanings.
Look, I'm not gonna fight with you because I don't want Djoser coming here like a terror. I did NOT patronize you. Whatever you say, I'm going to give my side of it. Anyone else be damned.
Patronizing, gimmie a break.
Raziel
01-18-2021, 01:34 PM
I prefer reputable , properly researched peer reviewed HISTORY over hyperbolic, factually delinquent polemics. And btw I include Mr. O'Reilly's "Killing " series of books in that category. I read one , "Killing Patton ". Riddled with errors and featuring a completely debunked theory that Patton was assassinated by the KGB. I'll never buy another one.
And, as you know, I don't bother to do that. No interest. I have shit to write. Just disbelieve me if you want. You have NINE posts on this page alone, Eric! 11 posts on the last page of JUST this thread. So in two pages you have 20 posts! 8 on the first page! 28 posts on a three page thread!
This isn't the Eric Site bro, it's the Missp, Dezire, Tempest666, Snuffluflegrass, Indygirl, Electra Luxx site. They are kind enough to allow us to come, but part of that is not flooding the forum with bullshit. Whenever I make three posts, I always feel guilty and apologize for it, but you apparently just have Diarrhea of the fingers. I got told I posted a lot, but, Bro, you take the cake!
ETA: unless it's my thread, then I'll go nuts.
eagle2
01-18-2021, 09:49 PM
I am sorry but I do not see the systematic racism that you do. Isolated instances of racist behavior ( George Floyd etc. ) YES ! Some government policies have disparate impacts without any negative intent. In order to be actionable, any racist effect has to be INTENTIONAL .
If you don't, then you're not looking. Here's what it's like being a black United States Senator:
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/tim-scott-capitol-racism-senate-225507
If this is happening to a United States Senator, what do you think it's like for an average black person?
A Stanford University study determined that black drivers are more likely to get pulled over by the police. The study compared the number of blacks being stopped during daylight, and the race of the driver could easily be seen, with the number of blacks being pulled over when it was dark, and the race of the driver could not be seen. The study found that a much higher number of blacks were being pulled over in daylight than when it was dark.
https://news.stanford.edu/press-releases/2020/05/05/veil-darkness-reas-traffic-stops/
It is against the law to pass laws intentionally targeting people because of their race, which is why it isn't done. Instead, one political party targets poor people, of which a disproportionate number are people of color. One political party refuses to expand Medicaid in states they control, which is preventing many people of color from getting health insurance. One party wants to cut food assistance programs like WIC, which provides food and nutrition to poor women, children, and infants, of which a substantial number are people of color.
One of our political parties has also been making a massive effort to suppress the vote of people of color and disenfranchise them, especially in this past election, where they tried to get votes thrown away in four cities, of which a large number of the people living in those cities are people of color.
I see more racism in the low expectations that Libs. have for Black people i.e." they can't do anything for themselves and need the Government ( i.e. us Libs ) to survive ". Who has done more to perpetuate lousy schools ( and incompetent teachers ) than the NEA , AFT and other teacher unions ? I strongly recommend you read a current book " The Color Of Law ". It details how Federal housing policy has perpetuated racial segregation. That wasn't the private sector. It was GOVERNMENT !
Nobody thinks that, but there are people who may need some help from government to get by, and liberals want to make sure people who do need help, get it, especially children. Our government has passed a number of laws to outlaw housing discrimination based on race, while Trump ran an entire campaign around keeping black people out of the suburbs.
I don't know why you brought up Limbaugh and his supposed "power". I agree with him on some things and disagree with him on others.
Neither he nor I authored the studies I referred to. Both analyzed the same issue : Why are people poor ?. The first study came to the conclusions I laid out . I think it was the Princeton study. It caused so much consternation in Liberal and academic circles that Yale did a "do-over" study and came to the same conclusion. People in the U.S. , REGARDLESS of their RACE are poor because they drop out of high school and /or get a criminal record and/or have children out of wedlock and get married too young. Like it or not , there are a lot of poor people who happen to be white. And they are so primarily because they have engaged in the negative behaviors outlined in those studies.
You're assuming the people are at fault, rather than the system. If our government spent more money on education in poor areas, provided free childcare for single mothers, provided universal healthcare like every other western country, had a higher minimum wage, and a more fair criminal justice system; you would see far fewer single mothers living in poverty. This isn't just theoretical. In other western countries, where government does more to help single mothers, far fewer of them end up in poverty.
eagle2
01-19-2021, 01:58 AM
Another thing that seriously challenges critical race theory is the success of Asians in this country. Their history has not been a happy one. From economic exploitation in the 19th Century resulting in virtual slavery in some cases ; to various laws codifying discrimination particularly in the Western U.S. in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries . The culmination of which was the shame of American citizens being forced into detention camps during W.W. II. And yet , they have by and large been very successful. So much so that Harvard and other schools have quotas to LIMIT their enrollment. How ? They stayed in school, avoided jail and out of wedlock births. Community shaming plays a large role in the latter two factors. A lot of Gangsta Rap celebrates both. I would say there might be a cultural problem there . Wouldn't you ? Can you explain what role white racism plays in encouraging those kind of negative behaviors ? Or in promoting positive behaviors ? Unless you want to blame record company executives as some did in the late 80's and early 90's. Btw, whatever happened to Tipper Gore and her campaign to clean up music lyrics ?
Most Asian families in the US have not been living here since the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, but have immigrated to the US fairly recently. Many came here on H1B visas, so they're already well educated and highly skilled.
Do you know who the biggest buyers/listeners of gangsta rap music are? White suburban teenagers.
Raziel
01-19-2021, 04:14 AM
Eric, just squeez them together. Get them all in one. You'll do better. Get them all in one. Edit if you have to. Just click "reply with Quote" And copy and paste, and add it your message. You won't look like such an obsessive then.
dpacrkk
01-19-2021, 09:18 AM
Another thing that seriously challenges critical race theory is the success of Asians in this country. Their history has not been a happy one. From economic exploitation in the 19th Century resulting in virtual slavery in some cases ; to various laws codifying discrimination particularly in the Western U.S. in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries . The culmination of which was the shame of American citizens being forced into detention camps during W.W. II. And yet , they have by and large been very successful. So much so that Harvard and other schools have quotas to LIMIT their enrollment. How ? They stayed in school, avoided jail and out of wedlock births. Community shaming plays a large role in the latter two factors. A lot of Gangsta Rap celebrates both. I would say there might be a cultural problem there . Wouldn't you ? Can you explain what role white racism plays in encouraging those kind of negative behaviors ? Or in promoting positive behaviors ? Unless you want to blame record company executives as some did in the late 80's and early 90's. Btw, whatever happened to Tipper Gore and her campaign to clean up music lyrics ?
It's a completely different situation. Many professional Asian Americans are 0-2 generations from the original immigrants, and still hold or are influenced by traditional values of their respective cultures. People are products of their environments. Give it some more generations with their descendants growing up in the US, and those traditional mores will shift to more American ones and we'll see similar outcomes.
There are even many Asian Americans that adopt your aforementioned "gangsta rap" culture, and those are probably not the ones that you would say those are the ones that "are by and large very successful" (i.e. they don't go into white collar STEM and economics/finance careers). And you can't even lump "Asians" together, this just flattens many very distinct cultures and environments into one. Are there many Southeast Asians in STEM fields in the US? You probably just meant Chinese and Japanese, but extended to an entire massive continent.
Correlation isn't causation. "Some non-whites succeed so there must not be systemic racism" isn't a good argument. They could just succeed despite its existence. Watch how the median American interacts with Asians, and watch how quickly "ching chong" or "you're Asian!" is brought up by whites to "win" an argument, then tell us there's no systemic racism against Asians. Your comment about private universities with quotas based on race/ethnicity is one such example of racism against Asians. More is expected of them, so their results on criteria such as (not-so) standardized test scores get handicapped just becaause they happen to be Asian.
Eric Stoner
01-19-2021, 09:20 AM
^You read and chose to believe what helps you confirm your bias (that black people are lazy, have victim-mentality, and if they just work harder/comply with supremacist officers/avoid unplanned pregnancy despite 64% of pregnancies in US being unplanned/left their subpar hoods/schools they were born in and integrated to neighborhoods/schools where they aren't welcomed by supremacist HOA/admissions,,,,,they too can become a success ).....but I digress
Gansta Rap is no worse than Heavy metal/Hard Rock ---- its all misogynistic n promotes sex, drugs, n responsibility-free 24/7 partying with half naked women. Neither should be easily accessible to young impressionable minds
Unfortunately for those who hate rap, rapping is one way that artistic people with musical talent can improve their economic standing and give back to their impoverished communities so that they aren't denigrated by people, who think like you, who assume they're just 'lazy, not working hard enough, victim-mentality, etc' The one good thing about rap is that successful/wise rappers are turning their real experiences (many of them coming from hood areas) into music as a career that provides for them and their family
Should their be a censor on what they can/cannot say in their music? Perhaps, but I believe your belief that censoring Trump, censoring alt-right is dangerous so why would censoring rap be dangerous if heavy metal, hard rock, and worse Trumps lies isn't?
We should probably just go back to the 50's where explicit content had to be hidden in a paper bag, sold to people over 18, and you had to drive to the store to go get it.
You should be ashamed of yourself. I NEVER posted anything remotely resembling that kind of garbage and YOU KNOW IT ! Please repost anything from me that says or implies that black people are "lazy". I think quite the contrary. A lot of black people work two jobs just to survive. Likewise for "victimhood " although many Black leaders blame the state of the Black Community solely on racism. It is they who conveniently ignore many other factors.
Who bears ultimate responsibility for out of wedlock births ? I didn't say unplanned . You did.
Why are their schools so shitty ? Who is in charge of them ? It is NOT the black community. It is local government working hand in glove with the Teacher's unions. They decide to assign the worst teachers to the worst schools. Charter Schools like KIPP ; Geoffrey Canada's Harlem Improvement Zone and Eva Moskowitz's schools all outperform the public schools at a fraction of the cost. So do the Catholic schools.
I am not in favor of censoring anything. If people want to make or listen to Rap music that's fine with me. I think it's a great way to provide employment to those who as Barry White said : " can't sing , write music or play an instrument " lol. Just kidding.
I was noting the lack of community shame for certain behaviors. I know, I know , the world is a different place now than it was during the Harlem Renaissance . Maybe that was a net negative. But there ought to be ways to encourage positives like work , faith and family and discourage out of wedlock births, dropping out and going to jail.
Eric Stoner
01-19-2021, 09:36 AM
If you don't, then you're not looking. Here's what it's like being a black United States Senator:
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/tim-scott-capitol-racism-senate-225507
If this is happening to a United States Senator, what do you think it's like for an average black person?
A Stanford University study determined that black drivers are more likely to get pulled over by the police. The study compared the number of blacks being stopped during daylight, and the race of the driver could easily be seen, with the number of blacks being pulled over when it was dark, and the race of the driver could not be seen. The study found that a much higher number of blacks were being pulled over in daylight than when it was dark.
https://news.stanford.edu/press-releases/2020/05/05/veil-darkness-reas-traffic-stops/
It is against the law to pass laws intentionally targeting people because of their race, which is why it isn't done. Instead, one political party targets poor people, of which a disproportionate number are people of color. One political party refuses to expand Medicaid in states they control, which is preventing many people of color from getting health insurance. One party wants to cut food assistance programs like WIC, which provides food and nutrition to poor women, children, and infants, of which a substantial number are people of color.
One of our political parties has also been making a massive effort to suppress the vote of people of color and disenfranchise them, especially in this past election, where they tried to get votes thrown away in four cities, of which a large number of the people living in those cities are people of color.
Nobody thinks that, but there are people who may need some help from government to get by, and liberals want to make sure people who do need help, get it, especially children. Our government has passed a number of laws to outlaw housing discrimination based on race, while Trump ran an entire campaign around keeping black people out of the suburbs.
You're assuming the people are at fault, rather than the system. If our government spent more money on education in poor areas, provided free childcare for single mothers, provided universal healthcare like every other western country, had a higher minimum wage, and a more fair criminal justice system; you would see far fewer single mothers living in poverty. This isn't just theoretical. In other western countries, where government does more to help single mothers, far fewer of them end up in poverty.
Nobody is in favor of racial profiling. Hmmm, well actually Bloomberg and Ray Kelly were before Bloomie decided to run for Pres. I personally have witnessed people pulled over for nothing more than DWB. ( That's " Driving While Black" ) . And even getting their car tossed without a warrant. If THAT is what you mean by systemic racism then I agree with you and we ought to try and suppress it.
Even eliminate it if we can.
Republican "voter suppression " didn't work very well in 2020 , did it ? Even if there is such a thing it was overcome by aggressively expanding the voter base and getting them to the polls.
Trump tried to keep LOW INCOME housing out of the suburbs.
Read the book I noted , supra . "The Color Of Law ". MOST , not all . but most of the zoning and red-lining you and I decry has historically been done by DEMOCRATS in Democrat cities. Not by Republicans. Do you know where the most integrated neighborhoods are today ? Most are in the South where those evil , racist Republicans have been in charge for the last 30 to 40 years. The most segregated neighborhoods are in the cities of the North and Mid-West. Almost all ruled by those wonderful , altruistic folks with big hearts , the Dems.
It has been repeatedly shown, over and over, that spending does not translate into success in education. If it did then Washington D.C. , Chicago , Philadelphia , New York and L.A. would all have fantastic schools.
Our government does do a lot to help single mothers. Not as much as some European countries but a lot more than most other countries around the world.
Ultimately I DO believe in personal responsibility. Personal free will ultimately decides whether someone drops out of school. Or not. Does the crime and the time. Or not. Gets pregnant . Or not.
Eric Stoner
01-19-2021, 09:50 AM
It's a completely different situation. Many professional Asian Americans are 0-2 generations from the original immigrants, and still hold or are influenced by traditional values of their respective cultures. People are products of their environments. Give it some more generations with their descendants growing up in the US, and those traditional mores will shift to more American ones and we'll see similar outcomes.
There are even many Asian Americans that adopt your aforementioned "gangsta rap" culture, and those are probably not the ones that you would say those are the ones that "are by and large very successful" (i.e. they don't go into white collar STEM and economics/finance careers). And you can't even lump "Asians" together, this just flattens many very distinct cultures and environments into one. Are there many Southeast Asians in STEM fields in the US? You probably just meant Chinese and Japanese, but extended to an entire massive continent.
Correlation isn't causation. "Some non-whites succeed so there must not be systemic racism" isn't a good argument. They could just succeed despite its existence. Watch how the median American interacts with Asians, and watch how quickly "ching chong" or "you're Asian!" is brought up by whites to "win" an argument, then tell us there's no systemic racism against Asians. Your comment about private universities with quotas based on race/ethnicity is one such example of racism against Asians. More is expected of them, so their results on criteria such as (not-so) standardized test scores get handicapped just becaause they happen to be Asian.
No. Sorry. You missed my point entirely. Asians in this country have had to deal with racism. Often just as vicious and violent as that faced by blacks. Often supported by law. Remember the Chinese Exclusion Act ? Laws in California and other states barring Asians from owning land or entering certain professions ? Yet the Chinese and Japanese immigrants of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries succeeded despite that racism. How ? Why ?
That was then and today Asian Americans are outperforming all other groups academically. How ? Why ? It's NOT just Chinese or Japanese. It's Koreans , Indians , Thais , Malaysians, Filipinos and Pakistanis just to name the leading groups.
There is a lot more to societal success than just academia and STEM jobs. Unless they include medicine , nursing and health care. There is also a LOT of entrepreneurship and business ownership in the Asian communities. THAT generates upward mobility and wealth creation more than any other factor . That is where the black community has lagged behind and where more emphasis ought to be placed imho. That is why the Covid shutdowns have been so devastating to black businesses.
If racism played such a major role in current inequality then how and why have Caribbean blacks and African blacks performed so well compared to native born blacks ? Aren't they subject to the same racism as all other blacks ?
I NEVER said there wasn't racism nor that it doesn't play a role in explaining the current state of affairs. Aside from blatant examples I think there is lot of subtle racism practiced by those who may in fact be well intentioned but who promote policies that have negative effects on black students , black neighborhoods and black families. Charlie Rangel , Joe Biden and Bill Clinton ( I am sure ) were trying to get an handle on the drug problem in the 1990's. But the laws they passed had a devastating effect on black families by incarcerating so many men AND by encouraging forfeiture programs which confiscated property and personal wealth from otherwise innocent families. It wasn't just racist Sheriffs. The NYPD and L.A. County Sheriff was two of the worst offenders. Even under flaming liberal mayors like Big Bird.
The negative effects of those Drug Laws were noted and opposed by such bleeding heart liberals as Bill Buckley, Milton Friedman and others who proposed alternatives.
Raziel
01-19-2021, 10:04 AM
Now it's thirty one... In a three page thread...
dpacrkk
01-19-2021, 10:08 AM
No. Sorry. You missed my point entirely. Asians in this country have had to deal with racism. Often just as vicious and violent as that faced by blacks. Often supported by law.
Did I post otherwise? I specifically added that they still do. And their success despite this doesn't make it right.
That was then and today Asian Americans are outperforming all other groups academically. How ? Why ? It's NOT just Chinese or Japanese. It's Koreans , Indians , Thais , Malaysians, Filipinos and Pakistanis just to name the leading groups.
There is a lot more to societal success than just academia and STEM jobs. Unless they include medicine , nursing and health care. There is also a LOT of entrepreneurship and business ownership in the Asian communities. THAT generates upward mobility and wealth creation more than any other factor .
That is where the black community has lagged behind and where more emphasis ought to be place imho.
Again, it's cultural differences, they "still hold or are influenced by traditional values of their respective cultures," borne from coming to the US under different circumstances. Add to that, more willingness to assimilate. But "people are products of their environments. Give it some more generations with their descendants growing up in the US, and those traditional mores will shift to more American ones and we'll see similar outcomes."
Now it's thirty one... In a three page thread...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/88/aa/5a/88aa5a9708fe10faa3529b8420fc07aa.png
Raziel
01-19-2021, 10:21 AM
Count my posts, buddy.
dpacrkk
01-19-2021, 10:46 AM
Count my posts, buddy.
Congratulations, you found a thread where you have fewer posts than someone else. So I guess it's time for you to Google "selection bias."
Regardless of how often Eric Stoner posts, each post at least contributes to the discussion. And we can generally have non-confrontational meaningful discourse regardless of if we agree or not.
What is the contribution of posting "Now it's thirty one... In a three page thread..." ? Does it support or disprove any points whatsoever? Or when you continually post nothing relevant while telling us you don't have time to post because you're a busy writer (if that's even true; I doubt any writer would mix up "absorbent" and "exorbitant" when describing seafood prices)?
Raziel
01-19-2021, 10:51 AM
That's for my editor to deal with.
And I'm not even that busy. I just do other stuff.
miss.a.p1600
01-19-2021, 10:52 AM
You should be ashamed of yourself. I NEVER posted anything remotely resembling that kind of garbage and YOU KNOW IT ! Please repost anything from me that says or implies that black people are "lazy". I think quite the contrary. A lot of black people work two jobs just to survive. Likewise for "victimhood " although many Black leaders blame the state of the Black Community solely on racism. It is they who conveniently ignore many other factors.
Who bears ultimate responsibility for out of wedlock births ? I didn't say unplanned . You did.
Why are their schools so shitty ? Who is in charge of them ? It is NOT the black community. It is local government working hand in glove with the Teacher's unions. They decide to assign the worst teachers to the worst schools. Charter Schools like KIPP ; Geoffrey Canada's Harlem Improvement Zone and Eva Moskowitz's schools all outperform the public schools at a fraction of the course. So do the Catholic schools.
I am not in favor of censoring anything. If people want to make or listen to Rap music that's fine with me. I think it's a great way to provide employment to those who as Barry White said : " can't sing , write music or play an instrument " lol. Just kidding.
I was noting the lack of community shame for certain behaviors. I know, I know , the world is a different place now than it was during the Harlem Renaissance . Maybe that was a net negative. But there ought to be ways to encourage positives like work , faith and family and discourage out of wedlock births, dropping out and going to jail.
Yes. I’m just as ashamed as you felt insinuating I said all white people are evil and should automatically feel white guilt n pay reparations. (Although I may send you an invoice for reparations for reading your long/incessant posts lol)
You also have some problem with out of wedlock births - which I get if your religion is against that sort of thing. But just so you know it’s not necessarily just oow births that can lead to poverty it’s moreso becoming a single parent before one is financially ready.
This can happen whether a person is married or not.
People die n leave no life insurance and people divorce which means ..... single parenthood.
Also a woman can marry a broke ass dude who impregnates her multiple times meaning a married couple now with more kids they can afford.
So yeah there are multiple scenarios where kids can drive people into poverty and it’s not just black unwed mothers
The black community as a whole does not glorify explicit rap music. Mostly more religious type, older, and/or upper class black people who prefer not to listen to explicit rap music. Even if people do listen to it they (IMO) would be wise to see it as a form of entertainment only not something to mimic one’s lifestyle after (unless they’re able to handle that kind of lifestyle which most people are not)
Eric Stoner
01-19-2021, 11:38 AM
Actually I'm a recovering Catholic with serious doubts about stuff like Christ's divinity etc. Religion does not enter the picture afaic. Secondly, considering all the single mothers I've dated (and helped raise their kids )I think it is fair to say that I do not judge.
You just said it yourself : "Becoming a single parent before one is financially ready." I have nothing against single mothers . My father died when I was six. My mother's second husband was a spendthrift alcoholic she had to divorce and I ultimately turned out rather well despite all that. My mother struggled and I worked my ass off. I WAS able to go to relatively good public schools and a good college. I WAS able to get good paying jobs in high school and college that helped pay the bills.
Again, I am being deliberately misunderstood. I merely pointed out that dropping out , going to jail and getting pregnant outside of marriage are celebrated by one slice of one community. Certainly not by everybody in that community. Who likes single motherhood ? Liberals ! Why ? Because they NEED government. Think of all the welfare programs and social workers who would be reduced in size and out of work if there were far fewer single mothers.
miss.a.p1600
01-19-2021, 11:58 AM
No I think rational people are okay with single motherhood ONLY if the mother can afford it AND has a support system of positive male role models.
Contrary to your flawed belief, not all single mothers are on welfare or government assistance
No one I know glorifies single motherhood. If anything those women are glorifying the life of their child and are probably pro life republicans. Like what are they supposed to do crawl into the depths of shame n perform coat hanger abortion?
The poor ones probably can’t afford attorneys and need the government to track down their deadbeat child’s father to make the dudes pay child support vs leaving women to struggle with the kid/the government n taxpayers to pay for deadbeats kids
And besides. I highly doubt Republicans turned down their government assistance welfare from PUA, Stimulus checks, rent/grocery/medication subsidies n more. Plenty of welfare programs that hypocritical Republicans are collecting while shaming others for doing the same.
Eric Stoner
01-19-2021, 12:32 PM
No I think rational people are okay with single motherhood ONLY if the mother can afford it AND has a support system of positive male role models.
Contrary to your flawed belief, not all single mothers are on welfare or government assistance
No one I know glorifies single motherhood. If anything those women are glorifying the life of their child and are probably pro life republicans. Like what are they supposed to do crawl into the depths of shame n perform coat hanger abortion?
The poor ones probably can’t afford attorneys and need the government to track down their deadbeat child’s father to make the dudes pay child support vs leaving women to struggle with the kid/the government n taxpayers to pay for deadbeats kids
And besides. I highly doubt Republicans turned down their government assistance welfare from PUA, Stimulus checks, rent/grocery/medication subsidies n more. Plenty of welfare programs that hypocritical Republicans are collecting while shaming others for doing the same.
I never said all single mothers are on welfare. Quite the contrary. Most are forced to work their asses off to provide for their kids.
I am 100% in favor of fathers paying child support and tracking them down to see that they do so.
Your last point eludes me . Except to say that hypocrisy is the mother's milk of politics.
Raziel
01-19-2021, 01:35 PM
Eric, frankly you just pissed me off, and I'm pretty temperamental. You have my apologies.
moneybags
01-19-2021, 02:43 PM
so I really don’t know if you are intentionally being obtuse or if you do not understand the basics of revolutionary and reactionary policies. The racists and the fascists are what BLM is protesting against, it’s systematic racism/classism that causes the most damage to progress.
I barely brings up my own personal politics. But I don’t care about property damage, at least until wage theft is down and reparations are made. But I never have encouraged property damage. I have never seen that here.
First of all this is a whataboutism. It’s a wonderful way to spin extreme right wing violence. “What about BLM’s violence?” Everytime the alt right get caught red handed...”well what about...”
Whataboutisms are red herring is a fallacy arguments that distracts from the original topic.
I don’t often argue my personal politics because people see what they believe.The brain literally filters out information that's not congruent with their worldview. Most people’s talking points are propaganda downloaded from their choose source of propaganda.
It’s kinda like alcoholism. Until the alcoholic admits and wants help, they see everyone trying to HELP as just a pain in his/her/their ass.
I wish we could temporarily switch bodies and people literally had to walk in the “other sides” shoes for a day. People don’t change their beliefs it seems until it effects them personally.
kamiliam
01-19-2021, 03:03 PM
First of all this is a whataboutism. It’s a wonderful way to spin extreme right wing violence. “What about BLM’s violence?” Everytime the alt right get caught red handed...”well what about...”
Whataboutisms are red herring is a fallacy arguments that distracts from the original topic.
I don’t often argue my personal politics because people see what they believe.The brain literally filters out information that's not congruent with their worldview. Most people’s talking points are propaganda downloaded from their choose source of propaganda.
It’s kinda like alcoholism. Until the alcoholic admits and wants help, they see everyone trying to HELP as just a pain in his/her/their ass.
I wish we could temporarily switch bodies and people literally had to walk in the “other sides” shoes for a day. People don’t change their beliefs it seems until it effects them personally.
is this is reference to what I said? Unclear. This response was to the AOC tweets that referenced making people uncomfortable which was made equal to encouraging violence. BLM want to make people uncomfortable with the history of racism and other fascists rallying points in order to enact change.
Raziel
01-19-2021, 03:15 PM
I wish we could temporarily switch bodies and people literally had to walk in the “other sides” shoes for a day.
That's actually a good idea for a Twilight Zone style short story, do you mind if I use it?
eagle2
01-19-2021, 03:48 PM
is this is reference to what I said? Unclear. This response was to the AOC tweets that referenced making people uncomfortable which was made equal to encouraging violence. BLM want to make people uncomfortable with the history of racism and other fascists rallying points in order to enact change.
I think it is in reference to Eric bringing up protests against racism and George Floyd's killing, where some people looted.
moneybags
01-19-2021, 04:59 PM
I think it is in reference to Eric bringing up protests against racism and George Floyd's killing, where some people looted.
Yeah. I was saying most of the time when people (like you) call out extreme right wing violence the response is a whataboutism. What about BLM protests? Yeah I don’t like naming name, but I’ve seen a few people post whataboutisms.
I also went down a rabbit hole...lol. I also understand that people who don’t see my point of view aren’t malicious. The brain is wired to rationalize irrational behavior; hence, the whataboutisms.
miss.a.p1600
01-19-2021, 06:19 PM
I also think humans are weird.
While most of us (the sane ones) agree that violence isn’t okay from either end of the political spectrum sadly people won’t change unless they are “pushed”/“feet held to the fires” so to speak - hence the violent wars/revolts that happen every so often
MLK was the epitome of PEACEFUL protests back during the civil rights era
Kapernick became the face of peaceful protest for today’s times
And maybe others I just don’t know their names
But sadly PEACEFUL protests led to MLK getting assassinated n Kapernick getting blackballed from NFL because extremist rights wing “snowflakes” as you call them can’t handle people standing up for their civil n human rights. These guys did the “right” thing, did what critics said they should do (protest peacefully), yet they still suffered consequences
Maybe this is the answer. Accepting were imperfect humans in an imperfect world and nothing will ever be perfect unless....we’re in the utopia of heaven
Anyhow I’m not sure how relevant this is to the original topic except to say that the capitol riot was a blessing in disguise as it exposed another Trump administration (failure to provide adequate security ahead of riots because eh they’re trump supporters), the corruption we already knew was going on at a high level of government, and more
moneybags
01-19-2021, 06:59 PM
I also think humans are weird.
While most of us (the sane ones) agree that violence isn’t okay from either end of the political spectrum sadly people won’t change unless they are “pushed”/“feet held to the fires” so to speak - hence the violent wars/revolts that happen every so often
MLK was the epitome of PEACEFUL protests back during the civil rights era
Kapernick became the face of peaceful protest for today’s times
And maybe others I just don’t know their names
But sadly PEACEFUL protests led to MLK getting assassinated n Kapernick getting blackballed from NFL because extremist rights wing “snowflakes” as you call them can’t handle people standing up for their civil n human rights. These guys did the “right” thing, did what critics said they should do (protest peacefully), yet they still suffered consequences
Maybe this is the answer. Accepting were imperfect humans in an imperfect world and nothing will ever be perfect unless....we’re in the utopia of heaven
Anyhow I’m not sure how relevant this is to the original topic except to say that the capitol riot was a blessing in disguise as it exposed another Trump administration (failure to provide adequate security ahead of riots because eh they’re trump supporters), the corruption we already knew was going on at a high level of government, and more
I was going to say, MLK and Jesus were both killed.
I don’t think it’s okay for women to hit men, but it’s understandable she might fight back after being pushed down the stairs and hit everyday. I think we want to believe that violence is a black and white issue. In sociology, we learned we have ideals as a society “don’t kill”, but often what society actually does is different: abortion, war, and executions. We have ideal beliefs that violence is wrong, but realistically violence may be unavoidable- especially in a dysfunctional society where there’s no way to address
conflicts in a healthy way. I think there’s some nuance when we look at violence. It’s not popular to have a nuanced conversation. “You” get more eyeballs when “you” yell, condemn, and point fingers, then here “we” are ( on social media) regurgitating that bullshit to each other. I really don’t understand violence. Maybe if the news brought on sociologist and psychologist instead of talking heads yelling at each other we could actually learn something useful about violence, but that wouldn’t sell. So here we are round and round the mulberry bush blaming “the other”.
53870
eagle2
01-19-2021, 11:05 PM
Republican "voter suppression " didn't work very well in 2020 , did it ? Even if there is such a thing it was overcome by aggressively expanding the voter base and getting them to the polls.
Republicans went to court over 60 times with frivolous lawsuits, to try to disenfranchise millions of black voters in four cities, in order to steal an election.
eagle2
01-19-2021, 11:22 PM
Again, I am being deliberately misunderstood. I merely pointed out that dropping out , going to jail and getting pregnant outside of marriage are celebrated by one slice of one community. Certainly not by everybody in that community. Who likes single motherhood ? Liberals ! Why ? Because they NEED government. Think of all the welfare programs and social workers who would be reduced in size and out of work if there were far fewer single mothers.
That's not true. You've been listening to Rush Limbaugh too much. Conservatives are the ones who support policies that result in more single mothers, not liberals. Conservatives oppose teaching teenagers about contraception, as well as providing them with access to it. Conservatives are shutting down family planning clinics in their states. Conservatives are blocking millions of poor people from getting health insurance. It's not just a coincidence that 9 of the 10 states with the highest teen pregnancy rates are conservative.
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/slideshows/states-with-the-highest-teen-birth-rates?slide=12
The same is true for poverty rates.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/us-states-with-the-highest-poverty-rates?slide=12
Eric Stoner
01-20-2021, 08:47 AM
First of all this is a whataboutism. It’s a wonderful way to spin extreme right wing violence. “What about BLM’s violence?” Everytime the alt right get caught red handed...”well what about...”
Whataboutisms are red herring is a fallacy arguments that distracts from the original topic.
I don’t often argue my personal politics because people see what they believe.The brain literally filters out information that's not congruent with their worldview. Most people’s talking points are propaganda downloaded from their choose source of propaganda.
It’s kinda like alcoholism. Until the alcoholic admits and wants help, they see everyone trying to HELP as just a pain in his/her/their ass.
I wish we could temporarily switch bodies and people literally had to walk in the “other sides” shoes for a day. People don’t change their beliefs it seems until it effects them personally.
I'm sorry but I do not have that problem. I have condemned ALL political violence especially the Beer Belly Putsch. Afaic there was NOTHING righteous for those nuts to be protesting. At least many of the George Floyd protests at least started out peacefully and had a legitimate cause supporting their protests
I've said from the start that there was NO LEGITIMATE Purpose for the Pro-Trump demonstration that morphed into or was hijacked into being an attack on Congress . Did those loons have a right to protest ? Yes. But what were they protesting ? The result of a legitimate election that didn't go their way. And what was Trumpty Dumpty doing there ? What was he trying to accomplish ? He tried to pressure Congress and Pence ( HIS Veep ! ) into defying the result of a legitimate election because he THOUGHT the election was rigged ; that he wuz robbed. After a month or so of lawsuits in which he couldn't prove a damn thing. It was classic mischief making demagogy on a grand scale.
Likewise I condemned the violent rioting surrounding the George Floyd protests. Like it or not, too many legitimate protests were infiltrated by Anti-Fa and BLM extremists. Inter alia , they copied tactics used by the PLO. They would do things like throw rocks and other missiles at the police and then fade back into the crowd.
Eric Stoner
01-20-2021, 08:50 AM
is this is reference to what I said? Unclear. This response was to the AOC tweets that referenced making people uncomfortable which was made equal to encouraging violence. BLM want to make people uncomfortable with the history of racism and other fascists rallying points in order to enact change.
I don't have a problem with making people more aware of racism and "uncomfortable" about same. I just fail to see how violence , rioting and looting accomplishes that.
Eric Stoner
01-20-2021, 08:52 AM
I also think humans are weird.
While most of us (the sane ones) agree that violence isn’t okay from either end of the political spectrum sadly people won’t change unless they are “pushed”/“feet held to the fires” so to speak - hence the violent wars/revolts that happen every so often
MLK was the epitome of PEACEFUL protests back during the civil rights era
Kapernick became the face of peaceful protest for today’s times
And maybe others I just don’t know their names
But sadly PEACEFUL protests led to MLK getting assassinated n Kapernick getting blackballed from NFL because extremist rights wing “snowflakes” as you call them can’t handle people standing up for their civil n human rights. These guys did the “right” thing, did what critics said they should do (protest peacefully), yet they still suffered consequences
Maybe this is the answer. Accepting were imperfect humans in an imperfect world and nothing will ever be perfect unless....we’re in the utopia of heaven
Anyhow I’m not sure how relevant this is to the original topic except to say that the capitol riot was a blessing in disguise as it exposed another Trump administration (failure to provide adequate security ahead of riots because eh they’re trump supporters), the corruption we already knew was going on at a high level of government, and more
Kaepernick does not have a job in the NFL because his talent level does not rise to a level where an owner will put up with all the collateral noise that would go along with having him on the roster. That is NOT me talking. That is fellow players; owners ;agents and GM's. All speaking off the record , of course. If any owner thought Colin Kaepernick would help his team get to the playoffs he would sign him and put up with the jazz that would come with him. Kaepernick settled his suit against the NFL for LESS than $ 10 million . Meaning he knew he couldn't prove he would get hired as a STARTING QB in the NFL. The average salary for starting QB's is a LOT more than $10 million. He basically settled for what a back-up would get over two or three years. And all of that assumes he could prove he was blackballed. That the owners acted in concert to keep him out of the NFL.
Eric Stoner
01-20-2021, 09:07 AM
That's not true. You've been listening to Rush Limbaugh too much. Conservatives are the ones who support policies that result in more single mothers, not liberals. Conservatives oppose teaching teenagers about contraception, as well as providing them with access to it. Conservatives are shutting down family planning clinics in their states. Conservatives are blocking millions of poor people from getting health insurance. It's not just a coincidence that 9 of the 10 states with the highest teen pregnancy rates are conservative.
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/slideshows/states-with-the-highest-teen-birth-rates?slide=12
The same is true for poverty rates.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/us-states-with-the-highest-poverty-rates?slide=12
Hmmmm. There is some truth to this. Those countries that promote sex ed. and contraception have MUCH lower rates of teen pregnancy than we do.
There is conflict between Planned Parenthood and people who oppose : " Any abortion , any time , for any reason ". I am admittedly ambivalent and wishy washy. I think PP does good work with contraception and providing info. However their pro-abortion extremism often results in a lot of babies being thrown out with their bathwater. No pun intended.
It's not a perfect world. If it were, just you and I locked in a room with all the power we'd need to work out and implement solutions to the world's problems we could probably solve a lot of the world's ills. Unfortunately we haven't been appointed CZARS . Sigh. More's the pity.
Eric Stoner
01-20-2021, 10:19 AM
Republicans went to court over 60 times with frivolous lawsuits, to try to disenfranchise millions of black voters in four cities, in order to steal an election.
If the lawsuits were frivolous then they didn't succeed , did they ?
eagle2
01-20-2021, 10:36 AM
If the lawsuits were frivolous then they didn't succeed , did they ?
Their intent was to disenfranchise millions of black voters. Because they didn't succeed doesn't change the fact that they wanted to do it and tried to do it.