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moneybags
09-10-2021, 01:56 AM
Is there a cloth n-95 that is washable? This is most likely a ridiculous question but I hate getting makeup on the inside of the mask or dirt on the exterior. I checked on amazon and only seeing disposable. Right when covid started I bought a standard n-95 mask on ebay and it just didn't last long and was super tight.

You can get a cloth one with an insert off amazon.






The only thing I can gather from this is that vaccines are helpful in reducing the chances of catching and being debilitated by COVID, but they are palliative not a curative, nor is this over at all.

I've been working full time like normal in the club, so far so good (fully vaccinated). I feel bad about it, but I need to make money. I would wear a mask if I could make money, but because of politics I wouldn't (pretty fucking sad state of affairs). I still wear masks outside the club out of respect for others who can't get vaccinated. It's an awful situation here. I believe the nurses aren't being allowed to talk to the news. One nurse quit at the local hospital, and told the news they were threatened with consequences if they talked to the media. Things will be awful here in a few weeks because no one is doing what they should. Winter is coming. What happens when all the hospitals are full of sick people??? I'm vaxxed and healthy. I feel sorry for other people though. I've literally done everything I could up until now. It was a Sophie's choice to go back to work. I haven't seen anyone at work sick that I know of. I'm praying everyone stays healthy at the club.

eagle2
09-10-2021, 03:05 AM
Is there a cloth n-95 that is washable? This is most likely a ridiculous question but I hate getting makeup on the inside of the mask or dirt on the exterior. I checked on amazon and only seeing disposable. Right when covid started I bought a standard n-95 mask on ebay and it just didn't last long and was super tight.

Why don't you just get one or two packs of disposable masks from Amazon, and throw it away when you're finished with it? Right now they're selling a pack of 50 for $2.50.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086T638CS?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image

Eric Stoner
09-10-2021, 07:24 AM
Why don't you just get one or two packs of disposable masks from Amazon, and throw it away when you're finished with it? Right now they're selling a pack of 50 for $2.50.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086T638CS?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image

Did you READ the product description ? Did you LOOK at the latest mask studies ? The ONLY mask PROVEN to be effective is the N95 although medical grade surgical masks have been shown to be at least 50% effective. The latest Stanford study shows that wearing a mask decreases the range of droplets and particulates. From as much as 20 feet down to about 5 feet.

Bahuba
09-10-2021, 10:41 AM
The N95 mask is the most effective, for sure. This is the only mask that can keep the virus out, though the others, from the data that I have seen, help to keep the virus in.

Eric Stoner
09-10-2021, 11:47 AM
The N95 mask is the most effective, for sure. This is the only mask that can keep the virus out, though the others, from the data that I have seen, help to keep the virus in.

According to the latest studies that is PARTLY true. Except for the N95 , masks do not offer much protection to the wearer. Still it's better than nothing.
Some masks do offer some protection to those the wearer comes close to by inter alia reducing the distance that particulates and droplets can travel.

indiegirl
09-10-2021, 12:14 PM
You can get a cloth one with an insert off amazon.





I've been working full time like normal in the club, so far so good (fully vaccinated). I feel bad about it, but I need to make money. I would wear a mask if I could make money, but because of politics I wouldn't (pretty fucking sad state of affairs). I still wear masks outside the club out of respect for others who can't get vaccinated. It's an awful situation here. I believe the nurses aren't being allowed to talk to the news. One nurse quit at the local hospital, and told the news they were threatened with consequences if they talked to the media. Things will be awful here in a few weeks because no one is doing what they should. Winter is coming. What happens when all the hospitals are full of sick people??? I'm vaxxed and healthy. I feel sorry for other people though. I've literally done everything I could up until now. It was a Sophie's choice to go back to work. I haven't seen anyone at work sick that I know of. I'm praying everyone stays healthy at the club.

Thank You! Had no idea there was a cloth insert n95 mask. Do you mean this type of one below? Is this what the n95 insert mask looks like?
https://ouragami.org/products/air-mask/?variant=32201002319943

moneybags
09-10-2021, 12:21 PM
Thank You! Had no idea there was a cloth insert n95 mask. Do you mean this type of one below? Is this what the n95 insert mask looks like?
https://ouragami.org/products/air-mask/?variant=32201002319943

That looks nice! Not too expensive either

This is what I got

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09C8MWJXK/ref=sspa_mw_detail_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_i=B09C8MWJXKp13NParams

indiegirl
09-10-2021, 01:59 PM
That looks nice! Not too expensive either

This is what I got

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09C8MWJXK/ref=sspa_mw_detail_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_i=B09C8MWJXKp13NParams

Okay I like the one you got better! I just amazon prime purchased it. Thank you!

Bahuba
09-10-2021, 02:33 PM
According to the latest studies that is PARTLY true. Except for the N95 , masks do not offer much protection to the wearer. Still it's better than nothing.
Some masks do offer some protection to those the wearer comes close to by inter alia reducing the distance that particulates and droplets can travel.

Exactly - the non-95 masks reduce droplets going out, but appear to do very little to reduce what comes in. In fact, after vaccination, ventilation does that the best at self protection based on what I am reading.

I do most of my activities outside, where there is little chance I'll get a breakthrough infection. When I go inside, I wear a mask because even vaccinated people still carry the delta variant.

eagle2
09-10-2021, 03:43 PM
Did you READ the product description ? Did you LOOK at the latest mask studies ? The ONLY mask PROVEN to be effective is the N95 although medical grade surgical masks have been shown to be at least 50% effective. The latest Stanford study shows that wearing a mask decreases the range of droplets and particulates. From as much as 20 feet down to about 5 feet.

Please stop posting misinformation. Tests have shown polypropylene surgical masks to be as effective as N95s when worn properly. I posted a video on this, and I know that you saw it because you commented on it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHVyy08L2gM

miss.a.p1600
09-10-2021, 03:43 PM
People with coronavirus (who refuse to wear masks AND refuse to get vaccines) traipsing around gleefully spreading their pathogens……..

moneybags
09-10-2021, 07:54 PM
^^^ There’s a “mind virus” going around that’s making everyone mad! I quit watching mainstream media. Read about 10 minutes of print media a day to say informed, and cut off or gray rocked those that have been infected with the “mind virus”.

TheBrownFox
09-10-2021, 08:50 PM
All this Covid mask and vaccine talk has so many people divided and fighting...it's so sad.

indiegirl
09-10-2021, 10:08 PM
All this Covid mask and vaccine talk has so many people divided and fighting...it's so sad.

For real! It's exhausting. I found this one high tech hepa air purifier mask which is incredibly cool! I'm not spending 300 bucks on a mask though unless I get even more sick to death of avoiding the gym
.
https://businessmirror.com.ph/2021/09/11/anti-covid-tech-a-wearable-purifier-and-nanoe-x-particles/

miss.a.p1600
09-11-2021, 06:19 PM
^^^ There’s a “mind virus” going around that’s making everyone mad! I quit watching mainstream media. Read about 10 minutes of print media a day to say informed, and cut off or gray rocked those that have been infected with the “mind virus”.

It is making people act out……..

Im referring specifically to L’s coworkers

Those jokers kept talking all this ying yang about how they refused to get vaccinated and one of them refused to wear mask also. (I’m all for personal choice regarding vaccines but cotdamn sit yo ass down somewhere, wear a mask in public/close quarters, n stay at home when you feel bad)

Turns out they have coronavirus and L and his boss had to rush n take tests to make sure it didn’t spread to them.

They have a small department and half their office is out sick meaning L has to work overtime

eagle2
09-12-2021, 12:13 AM
Mississippi teachers beg for help after more than 18,000 students catch COVID-19 in one month:

https://www.insider.com/mississippi-teachers-want-mask-mandate-after-thousands-kids-get-covid-2021-8

In San Francisco, where teachers are required to be vaccinated and 90% of students who are eligible are, and school districts are taking the necessary measures to prevent the spread of covid, there have been zero cases of transmissions in school last spring and this fall.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-francisco/san-francisco-unified-reports-zero-covid-19-outbreaks-case-transmissions/2652213/

Vaccines and masks work.

Marina Starr
09-12-2021, 05:04 AM
Thank you, science!

In America by the time you reach adulthood, you've already gotten dozens of REQUIRED and MANDATED vaccines all together in very short time. I remember as a child I have to get multiple vaccines at the same time or I wouldn't be able to go to school. That's the UNDISPUTED fact. People didn't even question, they just gladly do it. There were no 'I don't know what's in the vaccine' 'it's too new' 'it's my choice to not get vaccinated '. That's how we eradicated polio, chickenpox etc.

When people refused to get vaccinated, I always ask 'you know you've already had countless vaccines, right?!' If you don't know ask your parents. If your parents don't know, ask their parents but who's gonna tell that all that, though?

It's sad that science and health have become so politicized.



In San Francisco, where teachers are required to be vaccinated and 90% of students who are eligible are, and school districts are taking the necessary measures to prevent the spread of covid, there have been zero cases of transmissions in school last spring and this fall.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-francisco/san-francisco-unified-reports-zero-covid-19-outbreaks-case-transmissions/2652213/

Vaccines and masks work.

moneybags
09-12-2021, 10:17 AM
^^^I agree.

I’ve pretty much cut off or gray rocked ANYONE I’m not in alignment with.

This pandemic has revealed people’s true colors, and many people don’t have an ounce of integrity or intelligence.

I’m just focusing on staying in alignment with my morals and values regardless of what anyone else is doing or not doing, so that I don’t go crazy.

LoveyD
09-12-2021, 11:17 PM
Girl, I am right there with you and agree with everything you just said.

Eric Stoner
09-13-2021, 08:14 AM
Please stop posting misinformation. Tests have shown polypropylene surgical masks to be as effective as N95s when worn properly. I posted a video on this, and I know that you saw it because you commented on it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHVyy08L2gM

I did NOT post misinformation.

I asked you if you READ the product description of the mask YOU touted supra. Possibly you didn't. It says in pertinent part : " This mask is NOT intended for medical use, and NOT proven to reduce the transmission of disease ." ( Emphasis added ).

I also pointed you to the latest studies including the Stanford/Yale study which studied mask usage in Bangladesh . Mask usage reduced Covid infection by 9.3%. Use of surgical masks caused a redcution of 11%. ( Thanks Eagle. I read the study correctly but my post was bassackwards.)

eagle2
09-13-2021, 05:59 PM
I did NOT post misinformation.

I asked you if you READ the product description of the mask YOU touted supra. Possibly you didn't. It says in pertinent part : " This mask is NOT intended for medical use, and NOT proven to reduce the transmission of disease ." ( Emphasis added ).

I also pointed you to the latest studies including the Stanford/Yale study which studied mask usage in Bangladesh . Mask usage reduced Covid infection by 9.3%. Use of surgical masks caused it to rise to 11%.

You must have misread the study. Surgical masks caused it to decrease by 11%.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02457-y

The study linked surgical masks with an 11% drop in risk, compared with a 5% drop for cloth. That finding was reinforced by laboratory experiments whose results are summarized in the same preprint. The data show that even after 10 washes, surgical masks filter out 76% of small particles capable of airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2, says Mushfiq Mobarak, an economist at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut, and a co-author of the study. By contrast, the team found that 3-layered cloth masks had a filtration efficiency of only 37% before washing or use.

Marina Starr
09-13-2021, 06:34 PM
Total reassurance that vaccines are safe and effective for Sugar Daddies here at home and abroad! Hoes must protect Sugar Daddies at all cost when our livelihood depends on them!
I wonder if Moderna make BlueChew. #viagra #bluechewnow

https://i.ibb.co/WgTRj0d/349d4e1580ad5d8cbb6b4de9a7a8364d0844e07cc7998a4ea1 c17b3bc158eede-1.jpg (https://ibb.co/6gdqL8p)

eagle2
09-14-2021, 02:37 AM
Some good news for those concerned about whether the vaccines are safe or not. Nicki Minaj is doing research on it.

Marina Starr
09-14-2021, 05:18 AM
Dear Nicki,
Please get off Twitter and register your husband as a sex offender for his CONVICTED of attempted rape. That's required by law which he failed to do. Research on that!

A woman's research or opinion holds no value when she stood by and defended a rapist. That goes for Nicki and ANY woman or man.

On a lighter note, I'd like to report that I spoke to my neighbor's cheating husband and his testicles are fine after getting vaccinated and properly microchipped.


Some good news for those concerned about whether the vaccines are safe or not. Nicki Minaj is doing research on it.

Eric Stoner
09-14-2021, 08:09 AM
You must have misread the study. Surgical masks caused it to decrease by 11%.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02457-y

The study linked surgical masks with an 11% drop in risk, compared with a 5% drop for cloth. That finding was reinforced by laboratory experiments whose results are summarized in the same preprint. The data show that even after 10 washes, surgical masks filter out 76% of small particles capable of airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2, says Mushfiq Mobarak, an economist at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut, and a co-author of the study. By contrast, the team found that 3-layered cloth masks had a filtration efficiency of only 37% before washing or use.

Thanks for catching that. I read the study correctly but my post was bassackwards.

eagle2
09-14-2021, 08:42 PM
Dear Nicki,
Please get off Twitter and register your husband as a sex offender for his CONVICTED of attempted rape. That's required by law which he failed to do. Research on that!

A woman's research or opinion holds no value when she stood by and defended a rapist. That goes for Nicki and ANY woman or man.

On a lighter note, I'd like to report that I spoke to my neighbor's cheating husband and his testicles are fine after getting vaccinated and properly microchipped.

He's also a murderer. She really picked a winner.

kamiliam
09-14-2021, 10:38 PM
He's also a murderer. She really picked a winner.


I don’t think he is? (He used a knife which was a manslaughter charge in addition to the rape)

regardless of her thoughts on vaxx the real reason she cancelled on the VMAs and met gala is that her husband that she can never leave home isn’t allowed to go. Because there are schools and he is a registered sex offender! She is also supposedly about to be served for her part in that mess. Weird this is what she used to take the heat off that.

eagle2
09-15-2021, 12:28 AM
I don’t think he is? (He used a knife which was a manslaughter charge in addition to the rape)

regardless of her thoughts on vaxx the real reason she cancelled on the VMAs and met gala is that her husband that she can never leave home isn’t allowed to go. Because there are schools and he is a registered sex offender! She is also supposedly about to be served for her part in that mess. Weird this is what she used to take the heat off that.

He shot someone multiple times. He was charged with 2nd degree murder, but pleaded guilty to manslaughter.

https://people.com/music/nicki-minaj-new-man-kenneth-petty-manslaughter-murder-prison/

As far as I'm concerned, he's a murderer. She disgusts me for marrying such a lowlife.

Marina Starr
09-15-2021, 04:55 AM
What's shocking here is I am not surprised! The majority of people that committed and convicted of crimes never stop at just one crime or that we know of. That wouldn't be on brand.

As for Nicki, someone that's claimed to be pro women and for women, profited off of that yet stood by a rapist, murderer, is not pro women. Selective feminism is not feminism.


He's also a murderer. She really picked a winner.

eagle2
09-15-2021, 03:20 PM
Trinidad Government: We’ve Probed Nicki Minaj’s Swollen Testicles Claim and It’s Bullshit

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nicki-minajs-swollen-testicles-claim-dismissed-by-trinidad-and-tobago-health-minister-terrence-deyalsingh?ref=home

Marina Starr
09-15-2021, 04:06 PM
Twitter currently suspended her for spreading misinformation. Hoping this well deserved time off twitter she can finally register her convicted rapist of a husband as a sex offender.


Trinidad Government: We’ve Probed Nicki Minaj’s Swollen Testicles Claim and It’s Bullshit

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nicki-minajs-swollen-testicles-claim-dismissed-by-trinidad-and-tobago-health-minister-terrence-deyalsingh?ref=home

moneybags
09-24-2021, 01:01 AM
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/23/1040078971/cdc-covid-19-pfizer-boosters-adults-guidance


“In what might've been the most contentious deliberation, the committee said people 18 to 65 who work in a job or other setting where they are at high risk of exposure to COVID-19 should not yet be allowed to receive an extra Pfizer dose.”



https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/24/1040420009/booster-shot-for-covid-pfizer-science-do-i-need-one

In the younger population, without comorbidities or additional risk factors, the vaccines continue to offer robust protection against severe disease," Titanji says.

Now, when it comes to preventing mild to moderate illness, there has been some waning protection. The ability of these vaccines to prevent symptomatic infections has dropped during the past six months, this CDC data shows. For Pfizer, it's dropped from more than 90% to about 65%, and for Moderna, it's dropped from more than 90% to about 75%."

Uranusman
09-24-2021, 12:00 PM
Vaccination has several benefits.

Eric Stoner
10-01-2021, 10:03 AM
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/23/1040078971/cdc-covid-19-pfizer-boosters-adults-guidance


“In what might've been the most contentious deliberation, the committee said people 18 to 65 who work in a job or other setting where they are at high risk of exposure to COVID-19 should not yet be allowed to receive an extra Pfizer dose.”



https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/24/1040420009/booster-shot-for-covid-pfizer-science-do-i-need-one

In the younger population, without comorbidities or additional risk factors, the vaccines continue to offer robust protection against severe disease," Titanji says.

Now, when it comes to preventing mild to moderate illness, there has been some waning protection. The ability of these vaccines to prevent symptomatic infections has dropped during the past six months, this CDC data shows. For Pfizer, it's dropped from more than 90% to about 65%, and for Moderna, it's dropped from more than 90% to about 75%."

How do these numbers compare to those who are unvaccinated but have had Covid ? I have seen , read and heard several doctors who are infectious disease experts say that the previously infected who have recovered have superior immunity to those who are vaccinated.

moneybags
10-15-2021, 01:06 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/who-eligible-covid-booster-shot-moderna-johnson-johnson-pfizer-uses-explained-1639496%3famp=1

I really hope the CDC lets people who work in high risk environments to get a booster too. I’d really like to get mine without having to lie. I’m about due.

Bahuba
10-19-2021, 11:28 AM
Honestly I wish there was a non-political way to get information. This shows you how weak governments (ALL governments) can be. China, US, Russia, India, Brasil, everyone fucked up when it came to this pandemic. Instead of saying "we fucked up, we're human" they have to pretend that they were flawless and everyone else fucked up. So we can't get any unbiased information. Do we have a safe booster? Do the vaccines retain efficacy over time? Do masks help children or hurt them? Where did COVID originate?

Eric Stoner
10-19-2021, 11:44 AM
The boosters are safe for almost everybody.


All the vaccines seem to lose some effectiveness over time with Moderna's seeming to retain the most oomph. All the vaccines decrease the intensity of Covid infection.

Masks and children is a quagmire. Children are the least vulnerable group and there are downsides to them wearing masks. That said it depends as to whether they ought to wear masks. And it has become a hot political issue. What hasn't lol ?

It is far more likely than not that Covid escaped from a Wuhan Lab where they were doing Gain of Function research.

SnuffleUffleGrass
10-19-2021, 12:35 PM
Getting my Booster soon. Crossing my fingers for the Free 5 G lolllll............................

Marina Starr
10-20-2021, 03:42 PM
The FDA has authorized Moderna and J&J Covid vaccine boosters and said people can mix match.

moneybags
10-20-2021, 04:47 PM
The FDA has authorized Moderna and J&J Covid vaccine boosters and said people can mix match.

We just have to wait for the CDC’s final recommendation. Most likely if they told working people they could get boosted with Pfizer (due to the high risk of being around people) they’ll also allow working people to get boosted with Moderna. I want ALL the protection I can get! Give me a little of each.

Eric Stoner
10-25-2021, 09:50 AM
I saw these figures from a day or two ago:

https://i.imgur.com/iR8Lv8R.jpg

Florida makes up approximately 6% of the population in the US. Approximately 40% of new US cases are in Florida and 45% of new deaths, but their sociopath governor's biggest concern is making sure bars, restaurants, and other businesses aren't allowed to deny service to people who refuse to get vaccinated or wear masks.

According to the latest numbers Florida's Covid rate is LOWER than all states except Hawaii and California. Infections are down 48% according to the New York Times ( hardly a friend of DeSantis ). The seven day average is now 2600 new cases per day ; third lowest among all states. Their positivity rate is 3 - 4.9% . And the Florida economy is doing better than most other states. Their ports are open and working and DeSantis is encouraging law enforcement people who do not want to get vaxxed to "Come on Down " to Florida. I'm not crazy about encouraging people not to get vaxxed without a good reason but there it is.

moneybags
10-25-2021, 09:58 AM
Yay!!! We all get boosters!!! I’m so excited! I’m really happy I can get my booster before the holidays. I can get mine next week.

rickdugan
10-25-2021, 10:31 AM
According to the latest numbers Florida's Covid rate is LOWER than all states except Hawaii and California. Infections are down 48% according to the New York Times ( hardly a friend of DeSantis ). The seven day average is now 2600 new cases per day ; third lowest among all states. Their positivity rate is 3 - 4.9% . And the Florida economy is doing better than most other states. Their ports are open and working and DeSantis is encouraging law enforcement people who do not want to get vaxxed to "Come on Down " to Florida. I'm not crazy about encouraging people not to get vaxxed without a good reason but there it is.

The weekly positivity rate in FL has been dropping steadily since August and is now down to 3.4% as of the end of last week. This with essentially no mitigation efforts, including no vaccine passports, no mask mandates, no school mandates (vaccine, mask or quarantine) except in a small number of districts and with all of our school, sporting and social events in full swing.

The only time I even hear or see "COVID" anymore is when I turn on the news, visit this site or speak with client contacts in the blue states. Around here it's "been there, done that."

You're 100% right about the economy. It's gangbuster here now and that incudes the growth of our labor force. Employers and their workers are coming here in droves, as are others looking to escape the never-ending restriction nonsense. This includes families who want to return their children to their normal childhood experiences.

I deal with clients in NYC and their workers STILL don't want to return to their offices. Who can blame them? Long commutes on public transit systems are no fun under the best of circumstances. But then add the never-ending mask mandates and requirements to flash your vaccine status in every deli, bodega and other building you enter and it must feel like enduring some surreal dystopian reality. Why would anybody want to live like that?

But please could some of you go to Texas or another part of FL instead? The traffic is getting worse every day and we can't throw up houses and new schools fast enough. Seriously, lol.

eagle2
10-25-2021, 11:02 AM
According to the latest numbers Florida's Covid rate is LOWER than all states except Hawaii and California. Infections are down 48% according to the New York Times ( hardly a friend of DeSantis ). The seven day average is now 2600 new cases per day ; third lowest among all states. Their positivity rate is 3 - 4.9% . And the Florida economy is doing better than most other states. Their ports are open and working and DeSantis is encouraging law enforcement people who do not want to get vaxxed to "Come on Down " to Florida. I'm not crazy about encouraging people not to get vaxxed without a good reason but there it is.

DeSantis is a sociopath. His policy of ignoring the pandemic has been a disaster for the state. Close to 60,000 deaths, and his biggest concern is preventing schools and businesses from enacting mask and vaccine mandates. Florida's death rate is 2 1/2 times higher than Washington's, whose governor acted responsibly, rather than ignoring the pandemic. If Florida had been able to keep their death rate as low as Washington's, approximately 35,000 deaths could have been avoided.

Florida's economy is not doing better than most other states. Florida is ranked 30th in lowest unemployment rate.

Eric Stoner
10-25-2021, 11:47 AM
Not according to the latest numbers.

You just refuse to grasp the fact that Florida CHOSE to make certain trade-offs to keep their state up and running without the economic dislocation and outright destruction of some of those states you like so much. 80% of the state is vaccinated which together with the immunity enjoyed by those previously infected is causing their Covid numbers to go down. Not as low as California but on a per capita basis Florida does just as well. But WITHOUT the economic damage. Hawaii is a special case because they are an ISLAND. Well actually a mini archipelago.

YOU do not live in Florida. Rick does. And I am a frequent visitor still kicking myself for having sold my condos the last time the Florida real estate market heated up. I KNOW a LOT of people who live there and rather than get the heebie jeebies they just accept Covid as a fact of life while they keep calm and carry on. Florida's unemployment rate is dropping and their growth rate is very good. If you can catch your breath and look at who died in Florida the profiles are the same as for other states: the elderly ( pssst, Eagle - Florida has LOTS of them ) ; the already infirm ; the obese ( Florida has more than their share ) and the poor. Who are not dropping like flies ? Children. Young adults . The otherwise healthy. Those who get early treatment for Covid. Who has not gotten vaxxed in Florida ? Overwhelmingly African Americans despite serious outreach and PSA's. Gee, just like here in New York.

eagle2
10-25-2021, 12:26 PM
Not according to the latest numbers.

Yes, according to the latest numbers.
https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm



You just refuse to grasp the fact that Florida CHOSE to make certain trade-offs to keep their state up and running without the economic dislocation and outright destruction of some of those states you like so much. 80% of the state is vaccinated which together with the immunity enjoyed by those previously infected is causing their Covid numbers to go down. Not as low as California but on a per capita basis Florida does just as well. But WITHOUT the economic damage. Hawaii is a special case because they are an ISLAND. Well actually a mini archipelago.


Florida did not CHOOSE to make certain trade-offs. Their sociopath governor did. Florida did not make any "trade-offs". Their governor's disastrous covid policies probably made things worse for businesses, with the exception of hospitals and the funeral industry. 80% of the state is not vaccinated. It's not even close to that. No state has a vaccination rate higher than 71%.



YOU do not live in Florida. Rick does. And I am a frequent visitor still kicking himself for having sold my condos the last time the Florida real estate market heated up. I KNOW a LOT of people who live there and rather than get the heebie jeebies they just accept Covid as a fact of life while they keep calm and carry on. Florida's unemployment rate is dropping and their growth rate is very good. If you can catch your breath and look at who died in Florida the profiles are the same as for other states: the elderly ( pssst, Eagle - Florida has LOTS of them ) ; the already infirm ; the obese ( Florida has more than their share ) and the poor. Who are not dropping like flies ? Children. Young adults . The otherwise healthy. Those who get early treatment for Covid. Who has not gotten vaxxed in Florida ? Overwhelmingly African Americans despite serious outreach and PSA's. Gee, just like here in New York.

There are many people in Florida who are in favor of mask and vaccine mandates. There are counties that are willing to forgo state funding, cutoff by their sociopath governor, in order to put mask and vaccine mandates in place.

Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont, all have a higher median age than Florida, yet their death rate is far lower than Florida's. Florida's is more than twice as high as all of these states.

https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=pop46

rickdugan
10-26-2021, 06:08 AM
You just refuse to grasp the fact that Florida CHOSE to make certain trade-offs to keep their state up and running without the economic dislocation and outright destruction of some of those states you like so much. 80% of the state is vaccinated which together with the immunity enjoyed by those previously infected is causing their Covid numbers to go down. Not as low as California but on a per capita basis Florida does just as well. But WITHOUT the economic damage. Hawaii is a special case because they are an ISLAND. Well actually a mini archipelago.

YOU do not live in Florida. Rick does. And I am a frequent visitor still kicking himself for having sold my condos the last time the Florida real estate market heated up. I KNOW a LOT of people who live there and rather than get the heebie jeebies they just accept Covid as a fact of life while they keep calm and carry on. Florida's unemployment rate is dropping and their growth rate is very good. If you can catch your breath and look at who died in Florida the profiles are the same as for other states: the elderly ( pssst, Eagle - Florida has LOTS of them ) ; the already infirm ; the obese ( Florida has more than their share ) and the poor. Who are not dropping like flies ? Children. Young adults . The otherwise healthy. Those who get early treatment for Covid. Who has not gotten vaxxed in Florida ? Overwhelmingly African Americans despite serious outreach and PSA's. Gee, just like here in New York.

All of this. The results include: (1) the second lowest unemployment rate among the big states (those with more than 10 million people) except for Georgia, which also ditched most of its restrictions early; (2) 12 consecutive months of higher than expected tax receipts and an overall gangbuster economy; (3) kids who are now a full academic year ahead of their peers in the Nanny states AND in a much better place from a mental health perspective; (4) a small business community that not only survived largely intact, but is now thriving, including restaurants, hotels, specialty retailers, bars and, yes, strip clubs...

I could go on. If you are "unemployed" in FL right now it is utterly by choice. Between the tourists and the transplants, there isn't a retailer, restaurant, supply warehouse or trade business that isn't hiring right now. It's insane. Conversely, I was up in the northeast a few months ago and all I can say is: What a shit show. So many businesses shut down for good, including restaurants and retailers that had been there seemingly forever.

I watched every single COVID press conference held by DeSantis and they could serve as a tutorial in calm and rational leadership for Governors who caved into group panic. Every decision to lift restrictions was data driven and/or had a broader purpose. It was indeed about tradeoffs. We don't shut down the national highway system just because 40,000 people die from car crashes each year and, in his view and that of many Floridians, neither should we shut down schools for low risk kids. His decision to lift restrictions on businesses revolved around CDC data that made it clear that COVID was only dangerous to a small % of the population, many of whom were already retired. His fight against mask mandates in schools revolved around the mental health implications for children continuing to live in a state of never-ending panic. His banning of vaccine and other mask mandates were designed to remove impediments to full employment and economic activity.

Agree or disagree with any one of these, but altogether they have made Florida a wonderful place to be right now, as evidenced by everything I posted above and, of course, by all the people flocking down here. Heck even our strip clubs are hopping, while clubs in places like CT and NC were veritable ghost towns when I visited.

Eric Stoner
10-26-2021, 08:04 AM
I was looking at the broader economic picture than just unemployment rate. Eagle , when was the last time you were in Florida ? Rick lives there. I've been down there 5 times this year. Both Rick and I have a basis for comparison. I was on the West Cost once and the rest of the time I was in Dade and Broward Counties. Compared to N.Y. and N.J. I saw very few vacant storefronts. The restaurants , clubs , hotels and strip joints were all jumping. Anyway, for the first two Quarters of 2021 Florida ranked 10th in GDP growth. Like most of the country , Florida's GDP went down from 2019 to 2020. It dropped 2.9% while the national average was - 3.5%. Compared to Florida N.Y. ranks 38th in GDP growth. N.J. ranked 41st. In fairness California somehow ranked 7th. Texas was 8th.
In Florida new jobs are up 4.8% with a NET gain of 405,000. N.J. is up 3.6% with a net gain of 140,000. N.Y is only up 2.4% with a net gain of 212,000.
Btw, 1/3 of all unemployed Americans live in California.
Small business closures were 36.9 % in N.J. That means that 36.9% of all small businesses closed in 2020. In N.Y. it was 35.4 %. California was 35.9 %. Florida's rate was 32.2 %.

Please note that like Rick I have tried to compare apples to apples i.e. states with larger populations.

I looked but could not find data for 2021 start ups in Florida or any other state. Doesn't mean the data isn't there ; just that I did a search and couldn't find anything more recent than 2015 (???? ). Likewise I looked for data on reopening of closed businesses and couldn't find any. I think both numbers would be excellent points of reference to contrast and compare the Florida economy to those of other states. Any help would be appreciated.

Now let's look at some Covid numbers. According to WPTV Florida became the 18th state to pass the 80% vaccination rate for ADULTS receiving at least one Covid-19 vaccine shot. The full vaccination rate is 69.4%. The full vaccination rate is 67.7% for everyone 12 and older. Which is exactly the national average for that statistic.
Florida has had 3.64 million Covid cases ( i.e. that many people tested positive for Covid ). Some got sick. Some got very sick. Some had to be hospitalized. Many had no symptoms at all. As of yesterday Florida had 58,803 people die who tested positive for Covid. As with every other state some died from Covid and many died from something else with Covid being a contributing cause in SOME cases. Despite the categorical refusal of Fauci et. al. to really analyze the data a LOT of the deaths among children and young adults occurred with patients who were otherwise seriously ill. Many had cancer and were taking chemo. Others had compromised immune systems. A LOT were morbidly obese. Obesity is roughly the equivalent of old age as a co-factor for Covid mortality. Anyway Florida's rates are lower than those of Texas - 4.2 million cases and 70,593 deaths and California 4.87 million cases and 71,528 deaths. Florida's deaths per 100,000 is 273. It is 313 per 100,000 in N.J. and 289 in N.Y. If DeSantis is a "sociopath" then what do these numbers make Phil Murphy in N.J. and Cuomo in N.Y. ? Crypto sociopaths ? Unlike Murphy and Cuomo , DeSantis protected nursing home residents. He did not flood them with Covid positive patients the way Murphy and Cuomo did.

rickdugan
10-26-2021, 08:41 AM
I was looking at the broader economic picture than just unemployment rate. Eagle , when was the last time you were in Florida ? Rick lives there. I've been down there 5 times this year. Both Rick and I have a basis for comparison. I was on the West Cost once and the rest of the time I was in Dade and Broward Counties. Compared to N.Y. and N.J. I saw very few vacant storefronts. The restaurants , clubs , hotels and strip joints were all jumping. Anyway, for the first two Quarters of 2021 Florida ranked 10th in GDP growth. Like most of the country , Florida's GDP went down from 2019 to 2020. It dropped 2.9% while the national average was - 3.5%. Compared to Florida N.Y. ranks 38th in GDP growth. N.J. ranked 41st. In fairness California somehow ranked 7th. Texas was 8th.
In Florida new jobs are up 4.8% with a NET gain of 405,000. N.J. is up 3.6% with a net gain of 140,000. N.Y is only up 2.4% with a net gain of 212,000.
Btw, 1/3 of all unemployed Americans live in California.
Small business closures were 36.9 % in N.J. That means that 36.9% of all small businesses closed in 2020. In N.Y. it was 35.4 %. California was 35.9 %. Florida's rate was 32.2 %.

Please note that like Rick I have tried to compare apples to apples i.e. states with larger populations.

I looked but could not find data for 2021 start ups in Florida or any other state. Doesn't mean the data isn't there ; just that I did a search and couldn't find anything more recent than 2015 (???? ). Likewise I looked for data on reopening of closed businesses and couldn't find any. I think both numbers would be excellent points of reference to contrast and compare the Florida economy to those of other states. Any help would be appreciated.

And I'm not sure those numbers even completely tell the tale. As I mentioned, FL state revenues are coming in far higher than expected. Also, I'm not sure where that small business closure data comes from or which industries are most represented in each state, but my anecdotal experiences are the same as yours regarding vacant storefronts, especially with restaurants. It was downright depressing in the part of CT I stayed in. All of my favorite Mom and Pop restaurants were gone, including a wonderful burger joint that had been there for decades.

Conversely, in my area, restaurants were closed so briefly that most were able to float until they could re-open indoor dining. By June of 2020 most of the business restrictions had been lifted. Heck even strip clubs could open if they had a kitchen, lol.

I also believe that new business startups would also paint a much clearer picture. With all of the transplants flocking here we can't meet demand for goods and services. New shopping plazas are being thrown up as fast as they can be built, each with dozens of new retail locations for both chains and independent businesses. New hotels are also popping up, in direct contrast to the 11,000 hotel rooms permanently lost in Manhattan alone and the countless other hotels closing in places that nobody wants to visit right now due to onerous restrictions.

When this all shakes out and economic historians asses the damage ultimate caused by shutdowns and other restrictions, IMHO it's going to be a tale of two recoveries - one for places that didn't shutdown for a year or longer, destroying countless businesses in the process, and another for those that did.

Eric Stoner
10-26-2021, 10:25 AM
Well Manhattan has permanently lost several major hotels that will NEVER reopen. Or so the owners say. Tourism is coming back somewhat . Mostly thanks to Broadway reopening . But it is still way off its Pre-Covid numbers.
N.Y. was effectively shut down for six ( 6 ) months. From March to September, 2020. N.J. was pretty much the same. A LOT of businesses that closed in both states have not reopened and their spaces have remained vacant. There are parts of Mid-Town Manhattan where the empty storefronts outnumber those that are open. According to the latest numbers , only 30% of Mid-Town office workers have gone back to their offices.

What is really worrisome for the long term fiscal and economic health of NYC (and its Metro area) are the loss of jobs in the Financial and related areas. As I posted in the Dollar Den thread " More Bad News For Tri - State Area Dancers" some of those jobs are gone permanently and some have been relocated to other states with Florida and Texas at the top of the list. They ain't relocating to California , Washington , Illinois, Oregon or a bit strangely Arizona and Nevada. I'd rather not spell out the whys and wherefores for reasons already beaten to death.