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minibagel
02-15-2022, 01:54 PM
The Facts Are In: LiveJasmin is proof that 50-60%, even 80%, is possible on a pay-to-play private site. LJ and SM are similar private-based sites, and yet LJ redesigned their entire payout system while SM continues to pay out the lowest in the industry. looks bad Streamate, looks real bad. that is really impressive that LJ leveled up to make their site more attractive/rewarding to both current and potential models. i'm sure SM is spoiled and sitting pretty with their 65%, of course they don't wanna let such a beautiful thing go even though they could. it's been argued that we would get even less traffic if payout is increased, i believe it's more just like.. they still pay the same amount to affiliates---SM just pockets less. right? how could LJ afford to do it and not SM? CB is the highest traffic cam site out there. how is their traffic purchased? how can they afford to use the token system which gives models 100% of what they want?

just quoting this for emphasis. affiliate schmilate. b.s.



It's just not sustainable. Those of us who have watched sites come and go for many years can see the pattern of sites that pay a high percentage and then close. Happens over and over. It's not that we don't want a higher percentage but we know what happens when a site cannot pay for affiliates. Generally the higher percentage a site pays the lower the traffic and viewers. The reason for that is that Streamate reinvests in traffic and it does show.

except the flaw in this argument is that failed cam sites are totally irrelevant and ineligible for comparison in this debate. when discussing % and traffic, the only cam sites that matter are the big ones-- the ones that have stood the test of time, for decades, and are still top sites today. every new site is a wannabe MFC/CB/SM/LJ. they never will be. the sites with high pay out (mfc/cb) have in fact the highest earning cam models in this industry, go figure. SM only keeps a tight clutch on their 65% cuz they can.

SM is most comparable to LiveJasmin & Cutie101 is the poster girl for what happens when a top site increases payout. i am sure every single LJ girl is benefiting from their new payout system, not suffering lol




Btw I get 26% on SM because I am from Europe and also on BoleynModels. So basically it's also xenophobic (if not ignorant) too, like europeans don't need to eat/ pay bills or have taxes to pay. Eastern Europe has also became expensive, it's not like 10+ years ago anymore.

ya just wtf BARF. i'm guessing LJ does not do this crap? imagine if token sites told their top euro models, "sorry your tokens are only worth .045 cents. everyone else gets a nickel."



Hahahaha they should fucking pay me for how much good avdertise I do here. Altough it's because it simply works for me, I have never been ashamed of shitting on them when they weren't good. I just want people to know that there are sites out there going strong and there's life after Ifriends (or streamate).
Also, every site has it's own problems, there is no 100% perfect site... i wish. But SM at this point is not even acceptable... it's just... garbage.

Speaking of SM and social media, I swear they are like an insecure and toxic abusive bf, afraid to be cheated on. Like, wtf, if our relationship is great, why the fuck I would go somehwere else?!?
Btw I get 26% on SM because I am from Europe and also on BoleynModels. So basically it's also xenophobic (if not ignorant) too, like europeans don't need to eat/ pay bills or have taxes to pay. Eastern Europe has also became expensive, it's not like 10+ years ago anymore.

when i get that offline glitch... it’s like they are gaslighting me. playing toxic mind games with me just like a toxic abusive BF



*i’m online*
[I]No Mini, you are offline.
*i’m online*
Uh, no Mini, we said you are offline.
*i’m online*
Can't you read, Mini? You're OFFLINE
*i’m online*
OFFLINE
*i’m online*
OFFLINE OFFLINE OFFLINE

MissAdriana
02-16-2022, 09:09 AM
The Facts Are In: LiveJasmin is proof that 50-60%, even 80%, is possible on a pay-to-play private site.

OK this is very interesting to me I am not familiar with LJ. You are saying they don't need to sacrifice anything to pay us more? You may be correct.... actually considering the contests, SM have never run those long ago in the past and they are giving thousands of $ a year to those so I think it backs up what you are saying. Except they would rather do the contests instead of an overall % increase, why do you think that is?


Also, every site has it's own problems, there is no 100% perfect site... i wish. But SM at this point is not even acceptable... it's just... garbage.

Like, wtf, if our relationship is great, why the fuck I would go somehwere else?!?


Yes SM treatment of models has not been great with the new system suspending trusted models through no fault of their own without an apology !!


They are just milking a dying site with tons of glitches. Tons of restrictions, low pay and glitches. At this point, this site deserves to die if they don't change their attitude towards models.

Why do you think it is a dying site? So from my perspective they have invested a lot more into it lately basically making a whole new system with the SMconnect. Allowing up to 4k streaming and potentially this may be able to move up to 8k and grow with technology as time goes on. They have added a ton of new features, the wheel, the activity feed, wishlist, videos gallery, the gold menu, the toy integration. To me it seems like the opposite of a dying site

FloridaSunDoll
02-16-2022, 11:45 AM
Something I have been thinking about and would like to add:

I’ve been steaming exclusively with SM since 2017. For the first time ever I’m started to look at other sites and branch out to more than just SM. I have built up a large enough base of regulars that 100% only go on SM to see me. I could post tomorrow on Social media that I’m switching to whatever site and I have not a doubt in my mind several of them would follow me wherever I tell them to go. And then they’ll spend their money on the site just bc I told them to. SM may bring the initial traffic but us models are the ones that get them to spend their money and we are the reason they come back daily, weekly, whatever.

Im not sure if that makes a difference in the sense of this argument but I do feel like SM should have a vested interest in keeping us models happy and continuing to use their site.

minibagel
02-16-2022, 12:06 PM
OK this is very interesting to me I am not familiar with LJ. You are saying they don't need to sacrifice anything to pay us more? You may be correct.... actually considering the contests, SM have never run those long ago in the past and they are giving thousands of $ a year to those so I think it backs up what you are saying. Except they would rather do the contests instead of an overall % increase, why do you think that is?



Yes SM treatment of models has not been great with the new system suspending trusted models through no fault of their own without an apology !!



Why do you think it is a dying site? So from my perspective they have invested a lot more into it lately basically making a whole new system with the SMconnect. Allowing up to 4k streaming and potentially this may be able to move up to 8k and grow with technology as time goes on. They have added a ton of new features, the wheel, the activity feed, wishlist, videos gallery, the gold menu, the toy integration. To me it seems like the opposite of a dying site


no complaints here about the addition of actually useful features to keep up with the joneses/other sites... but it doesn't outweigh all their failings.

their biggest sacrifice would be losing their ability to be so goddamn greedy. :) i'm sure after 20yrs it's hard to say byebye to their comfy castle in the sky. Live Jasmin is an old school private-based site, just like SM. if LJ could make major payout changes with all their studios and affiliates, SM could too. as for contests, well they only reward those who actually place... it's way cheaper than increasing % overall which would reward everyone, every second of the fiscal year. they only get to keep their vise grip on that 65-70% cuz it seems ppl defend it rather than criticize it

and ya... i find it a little strange here the adamant insistence that without their huge cut they couldn't possibly pay out affiliates... the blind faith that SM is doing the noble thing with their money… to serve us lol, the ppl holding breadcrumbs after the cut. i'm sure they have a goooood laugh at us on their yacht dinner parties in seattle. they don’t give an F about us, which is evident in the fact that they never communicate anything to us other than contest announcements and new site features no one asked for: activity feed & wishlist that have fixed limits and that most customers have no clue exists LOL. the more they can get away with not acknowledging us, the better. they love to keep that distance between Us and Them. this isn't unique to streamate either, every adult platform out there hates us. SM is just not ashamed to hate us the most by taking 65-70% :)





***
here is some math: take your 2021 annual earnings and multiply it by 2.857 (100/35 or adjust this # depending on whatever cut you have based on geographic location or studio)

(your 2021 annual earnings) x 2.857 = $(your approx. gross total earnings your customers spent on you before SM’s cut)

let that gross # sink in, then ask yourself does the 65% cut make sense? are you satisfied with everything? **this is a very personal question, there is no right or wrong answer. everyone has a different experience.** 

personally for me, i look at last year’s #, then i look at the current state of the site, and my current experience and i get [email protected]#(&*!(* pissed that they take so much. for what? to reward me with zero traffic and the worst glitch of all time?! the response from tech that Liz forwarded me was an absolute joke. it was basically "please let her know restarting her stream is a viable workaround" no sh!t, sherlock. lmfao. 65% is NOT justifiable in my situation.

cutie's legit got me looking at LJ for a paytoplay alternative

minibagel
02-16-2022, 12:11 PM
I could post tomorrow on Social media that I’m switching to whatever site and I have not a doubt in my mind several of them would follow me wherever I tell them to go. And then they’ll spend their money on the site just bc I told them to.

true, but if only SM let us share something as basic as a twitter handle...

on the other hand, imagine how many potentials we could get to sign up with our cammodels link.

FloridaSunDoll
02-16-2022, 12:17 PM
true, but if only SM let us share something as basic as a twitter handle...

on the other hand, imagine how many potentials we could get to sign up with our cammodels link.

I have a twitter that I've never even used but I made it when I very first started camming just to keep my model name incase I ever wanted it in the future. I logged on last week just to see if it still worked and I was shocked by how many customer from SM were following me. I never even mentioned it. They mustve googled my name and found it. Your dedicated fanbase will find you regardless. they'll google your name, find your new site, and spend their money there

minibagel
02-16-2022, 12:27 PM
^ya, the clever cookies will find you. but would be a lot easier to advertise it like you can on every other adult platform in existence.

i remember seeing a veteran model in the SM thread who wanted to switch to token sites solely to build a following.. to then take to Onlyfans. assuming she couldn't easily build her twitter following with SM forbidding social media



Something I have been thinking about and would like to add:

I’ve been steaming exclusively with SM since 2017. For the first time ever I’m started to look at other sites and branch out to more than just SM. I have built up a large enough base of regulars that 100% only go on SM to see me. I could post tomorrow on Social media that I’m switching to whatever site and I have not a doubt in my mind several of them would follow me wherever I tell them to go. And then they’ll spend their money on the site just bc I told them to. SM may bring the initial traffic but us models are the ones that get them to spend their money and we are the reason they come back daily, weekly, whatever.

Im not sure if that makes a difference in the sense of this argument but I do feel like SM should have a vested interest in keeping us models happy and continuing to use their site.

it's good to branch out and have multiple eggs (fansite, clips site, indie, etc.), but it makes me sad that the current state of SM is making ppl look to other cam sites. i used to think that streamate was the PERFECT cam site for me, coming from MFC where i did well but i developed a lot of anxiety around just the drama of it all. SM used to be reliable and steady earnings, i could hop on, stay on till i hit my goal, hop off. i had consistent steady paychecks. traffic was decent. not anymore... :(

MsJess
02-17-2022, 11:34 AM
My wish is for SM to give Tier II models Romania, Colombia, PH, etc. 35% payout just like everyone else. We also HAVE to pay taxes, if you ever heard we dont', It's a lie,there are models who are avoiding to pay them but most likely will get in big trouble if they don't. So pls SM 35% for ALL models :genie:

Ny.10
02-17-2022, 05:47 PM
Heyyyy so I've not been on here and I've just caught up with comments! Thank you all for your input it's lovely to hear experiences and opinions

I know some points in my original post may have come across tough for some and I acknowledge that! I apologise to those who actually addressed it in a respectful manner

X

Again this is a conversation we're having and maybe something we can all work on and come up with a geeaable option to put across to streamate whether that be higher % of all payouts or just on some parts like gold shows and tips like some of u mentioned

Sam38g
02-17-2022, 06:03 PM
What is their payout percentage on Eplay?

MissAdriana
02-18-2022, 09:33 AM
no complaints here about the addition of actually useful features to keep up with the joneses/other sites... but it doesn't outweigh all their failings.

their biggest sacrifice would be losing their ability to be so goddamn greedy. :)

and ya... i find it a little strange here the adamant insistence that without their huge cut they couldn't possibly pay out affiliates... the blind faith that SM is doing the noble thing with their money… to serve us lol,

Ok very interesting take! I dont think it is noble or anything but I know eveyrone goes into business to make money. I expect them to want to make more money every year and judging only by the increase in the contest prizes I would say they are doing that



(your 2021 annual earnings) x 2.857 = $(your approx. gross total earnings your customers spent on you before SM’s cut)

let that gross # sink in, then ask yourself does the 65% cut make sense? are you satisfied with everything? **

Ok math is really not my strength. That # does make sense to me. That # would not be enough to pay 1 developer, let alone a team. I certainly hope they have hired more than 1 developer for the site. The way I'm thinking of it is if I were to try to create my own site exactly like SM I would need.... millions? So a lot of models working for me just to break even annually. Then there are the employees, websites, bandwidth, servers, advertising the list goes on... Im not sure the math on those things either, obviously they are making money or they would not have a site at all

I am NOT satisfied with everything. I would like them to invest more in site development. There are issues we are having for years now that should not be happening. They have no communication with models and no live model support is truly pathetic. My perspective was in order to gain those things we would have to go down to 25 or 30% to get that. You are saying all they have to do is cut into their profit?

minibagel
02-19-2022, 09:42 AM
Ok very interesting take! I dont think it is noble or anything but I know eveyrone goes into business to make money. I expect them to want to make more money every year and judging only by the increase in the contest prizes I would say they are doing that

i believe LJ’s new payout system speaks for itself, as proof that Streamate (basically its sister site) is cemented in their ways and is cool with being the Scrooge of the cam world. the fact that SM will consider private negotiations for % has me thinking that they really have no plans to redesign a more rewarding payout system overall. as for just getting everyone to an equal 35%… if ppl are ever so lucky… will find 35% is just as crummy as 30%

my stance is that if a camsite is gonna take 65-70% then they better be working hard round the clock to provide the absolute BEST reliable well functioning camsite out there, the BEST/consistent traffic, and the BEST ~*creme da la creme*~ model support (possibly 24/7 like the custies??), etc. so that we are happy lil clams who rarely think to question the cut or wonder “what affiliates are they paying?.” as for my noble/breadcrumb comment, i just meant that Streamate walks away with the majority: .65-.70 cents on the dollar, so they're already making their $. they don't have to care about our feelings, our concerns, our tech issues. they’ve proven that to us in their silence. they just pop on their rose-tinted hater shades 8) and do Tea Time streams to entertain themselves 8)




Ok math is really not my strength. That # does make sense to me. That # would not be enough to pay 1 developer, let alone a team. I certainly hope they have hired more than 1 developer for the site. The way I'm thinking of it is if I were to try to create my own site exactly like SM I would need.... millions? So a lot of models working for me just to break even annually. Then there are the employees, websites, bandwidth, servers, advertising the list goes on... Im not sure the math on those things either, obviously they are making money or they would not have a site at all

I am NOT satisfied with everything. I would like them to invest more in site development. There are issues we are having for years now that should not be happening. They have no communication with models and no live model support is truly pathetic. My perspective was in order to gain those things we would have to go down to 25 or 30% to get that. You are saying all they have to do is cut into their profit?

*shines spotlight on LiveJasmin again & then to the other big sites* ya. i really think it's as simple as cutting their profit aka not being so damn greedy. all the other major camsites have those exact requirements and take a much smaller 'cut'. they are still making $$$$$. ('cut' = semantics, cuz for token sites it's not really a cut. the token system is designed so that customers must spend more to give a model 100% of what she wants). Leo from MFC made so much cash money over the decades he opened a new venture, OnlyFans. on SM / LJ it's a true % cut. [correction: leo bought the majority of onlyfans]

1000% agree with you on our crap model support, but no just noooo they don't need to take even more to do their jobs. they do not need to take 70-75% just to send out tweets/emails to keep us updated and informed. like can you imagine token sites disabling their room topics for months, something so vital to chatroom based sites, and then just acting like everything is fine/never addressing it lol? yeah right

misspandora
02-19-2022, 10:43 AM
I think a lot of the replies are either not reading my full post or misinterpreted what I said

Example one 50% pay out entices models to work more hours, meaning they make more money which in turn brings more customers equaling more money for SM

Example 2 models reduce rates even by a dollar would make more, the increase in paying customers makes more for SM

Also imagine 50% pay out on gold, that'll be a huge increase in models doing gold shows

Either options bring more money to us models as well as SM they don't lose out, they make more if anything

I would work more hours if they paid out 50%. Why would I bust my a$$ for just 30% when I can't rely on sm to pay all my bills? I have OnlyFans, Clips4Sale, ManyVids, Niteflirt, etc. It's like you HAVE to have your eggs in a bunch of baskets to make enough to survive.

MissAdriana
02-19-2022, 10:55 AM
my stance is that if a camsite is gonna take 65-70% then they better be working hard round the clock to provide the absolute BEST reliable well functioning camsite out there

Great point


*shines spotlight on LiveJasmin again & then to the other big sites* ya. i really think it's as simple as cutting their profit aka not being so damn greedy. all the other major camsites have those exact requirements and take a much smaller 'cut'.

Do you think SM makes as much as those sites though?

OK so I agree with everything you are saying hun. I think that this poll isnt really about the % we are getting. Obviously we all want to make more money and keep as much of our money as possible.

The poll is really that some models think SM can afford to raise our % and others dont. So then its just our individual perspectives of how much does SM make and our opinions of how they spend what they do make? The logistics of it is hard for me to even speculate about as far as what goes out and what is profit

Then the poll becomes more about "how do you want SM to spend its profits?" My opinion is that SM in not investing enough IN ANYTHING, not just us. That may not be up to only the quantity of money they spent but the skill of the people they hired or the amount of people they hired. The music "library" doesnt even have 500 songs.

I forget who but a model on here asked SM if they would be doing other types of contests for models for prizes like webcams and their answer was NO. Why not? Another expense they dont want to take on?Can they afford it? I dont know

FloridaSunDoll
02-19-2022, 11:09 AM
I would work more hours if they paid out 50%. Why would I bust my a$$ for just 30% when I can't rely on sm to pay all my bills? I have OnlyFans, Clips4Sale, ManyVids, Niteflirt, etc. It's like you HAVE to have your eggs in a bunch of baskets to make enough to survive.

They totally know that we’ll all put in more hours and work harder if we had a higher percentage. That’s the whole reason they dangle it in front of us for special “bonus” events when they want models to be more active online

Luci Fer
02-19-2022, 01:10 PM
gosh cutie, you are making LJ sound more and more appealing every time you write about it. i still like SM but i have become disenchanted. .

I feel the same every time! So LJ has a bunch of options to earn, Cutie's description of LJ reminded me of Loyalfans. But I guess LJ brings better traffic with paying customers.
I am curious to try it, but I'm not a studio model. idk how they verify and token system scares me shitless. I guess I need to read LJ thread haha

Luci Fer
02-19-2022, 01:23 PM
my stance is that if a camsite is gonna take 65-70% then they better be working hard round the clock to provide the absolute BEST reliable well functioning camsite out there, the BEST/consistent traffic, and the BEST ~*creme da la creme*~ model support (possibly 24/7 like the custies??), etc. so that we are happy lil clams who rarely think to question the cut or wonder “what affiliates are they paying?.” as for my noble/breadcrumb comment, i just meant that Streamate walks away with the majority: .65-.70 cents on the dollar, so they're already making their $. they don't have to care about our feelings, our concerns, our tech issues. they’ve proven that to us in their silence. they just pop on their rose-tinted hater shades 8) and do Tea Time streams to entertain themselves 8)


I agree with this. I don't mind if they take 70% of my earnings (hellooo xenophobia!) and perform amazingly.
I also would work more if they worked immaculately. It's sad to see that 'room topic is temporary disabled' -as if I worked on some ever-building construction! If it is disabled, just make the whole window disappear so I don't have to see it.
"WC is temporary disabled, please go piss in the bushes"
Writing this, I realized I really did worked more before they started their crap with disabled topics and constant approving everything. :O

minibagel
02-19-2022, 05:44 PM
I agree with this. I don't mind if they take 70% of my earnings (hellooo xenophobia!) and perform amazingly.
I also would work more if they worked immaculately. It's sad to see that 'room topic is temporary disabled' -as if I worked on some ever-building construction! If it is disabled, just make the whole window disappear so I don't have to see it.
"WC is temporary disabled, please go piss in the bushes"
Writing this, I realized I really did worked more before they started their crap with disabled topics and constant approving everything. :O

lolol ya wish they would just hide it from us. i feel like my entire everything is just "disabled". and same, i was camming more too until exactly when you said, when everything started going haywire. around early november for me

P.S. this is my last complaint for a while. i really apologize somehow this thread became my safe space for talking sh—. last one i swear. i watched part of the most recent Tea Time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JoH1aBL_-I) on youtube and they were interviewing content creators and discussing marketing techniques, etc. uh, is SM gaslighting me again? last time i checked SM is a cam site, right? and a super strict one at that who forbids us to advertise twitter, social media, any fansites, etc. and here they are droning on about forbidden fruits like onlyfans, youtube, tiktok, etc. ??? scuse me???

56715

how bout lets do a tea time relevant to streamate.com. let’s try that for once :-X /exitsthread


EDIT: Luci is your avatar by Junji Ito???

MissAdriana
02-20-2022, 12:44 PM
P.S. this is my last complaint for a while. i really apologize somehow this thread became my safe space for talking sh—. last one i swear.

I dont see it that way at all. I think it's very important for models to talk. More important with so many glitches and changes happened. Without top models having a voice it makes it a really wild guess for us on the bottom of the back pages. There is so many unknowns. Im not a top model so its more natural for me to assume a site 'just cant afford' to pay more or make certain changes because they are spending that $ on apps or other things like that. I can assume half of the models are making more than me but how much does that equal and what does it cover? Its just a wild guess for me. When even a top model says a site can afford to do certain things, and certain things are broken for them too; Im going to listen to that because those models probably have a better perspective on what the site is actually making and the math of it than I do.

And I dont mean to state a top models opinion holds more weight. I just mean if even they are saying things can be done and certain things need to change.. it shuts down any conspiracy theory of *these glitches only happen to me/they are driving all the traffic to her not me* bla bla

minibagel
02-22-2022, 11:15 AM
I dont see it that way at all. I think it's very important for models to talk. More important with so many glitches and changes happened. Without top models having a voice it makes it a really wild guess for us on the bottom of the back pages. There is so many unknowns. Im not a top model so its more natural for me to assume a site 'just cant afford' to pay more or make certain changes because they are spending that $ on apps or other things like that. I can assume half of the models are making more than me but how much does that equal and what does it cover? Its just a wild guess for me. When even a top model says a site can afford to do certain things, and certain things are broken for them too; Im going to listen to that because those models probably have a better perspective on what the site is actually making and the math of it than I do.

And I dont mean to state a top models opinion holds more weight. I just mean if even they are saying things can be done and certain things need to change.. it shuts down any conspiracy theory of *these glitches only happen to me/they are driving all the traffic to her not me* bla bla

well except i’m not a top model lol. what is a top model? i think some of the top contest girls (the ones who only work contests) probably make as much as other girls who work steadily throughout the month. excluding bonuses/prizes. and their hourly is probably similar at least, since contest girls are known to put in crazy hours… just a guess

i did maintain top site position for 8 months if that's what you meant, and did in fact experience all my issues w/ top placement, but i think the 90 day cycle thing is correct and finally hit me this month- the last time my placement was top row was february 7th and i have only streamed two hours all month. after the halloween contests/early november was when everything got bad for me (glitches/decline in traffic) & as a result i cut my hours drastically… so 90 days seems accurate. i get what you mean tho because YES when it comes to glitches but especiallyyyy when it comes to traffic, i *do* care what the upper row models have to say about it! just like i would not expect a high camscore/top row MFC girl to get ZERO traffic like girls with sub1000 scores. except that is just the frustrating reality of Streamate i guess :shrug:

whirlerz
02-22-2022, 01:59 PM
Sounds good in theory but if that were true everyone would have moved over to Chaturbate or MFC. Also I find lowering prices just means less money for me and really poor quality customers. Customers who go for the lower prices often can only stay a short time. My shows have gotten longer since I raised prices at the beginning of the year.

So True!