View Full Version : Why I Hate Men
velvet
11-26-2003, 04:28 AM
my husband is good looking, alot younger then me and a nice guy. im a dominant women so he is a little less dominant but i love it. he is kind, sweet and the best husband a girl could ask for. he is my best friend and my right arm. when you realise that YOU are worth more and worth being treated like a queen you will leave behind the bad boys and say damn what took me so long! it took me a very long time to realise I WAS WORTH IT. we have been togather almost 6 years and i dont have ONE complaint about him... could you say that about a bad boy... nope.
FONDL
11-26-2003, 04:39 AM
Lena, sounds like you have it together. And it sounds like some of the others posting here need to grow up. You should have gotten the bad boy-bad girl desires out of your system by the time you finished high school or shortly thereafter. Ladies, if you're still attracted to the super-ego BS macho-man type I suggest you fast forward 20 years or so to when he has the big beer gut, shitty job, shitty attitude, and blames you for all his problems. Do yoursef a favor and find a nice stable guy with a good job and good future, and give him all the love that you can. You'll be much happier. If you don't believe me ask your grandmother.
Malibu
11-26-2003, 04:53 AM
Sometimes you just feel like you want to be let out to play with danger! That's the fun in bad boys. We all know that they're screw-ups in the long-term. Just use them for the short-shelf life they're made for, they are most definitely not for the future.
I have a really good guy with me now. He's like a girlfriend at the same time, buys me girl's things, knows when I'm due my period and stuff. He's a cutie! I know that's more worth holding onto than a short dance with danger!
Dreamer
11-26-2003, 04:58 AM
Bella, you have to see the big picture. If you call in about your boyfriend who has beaten on you who comes to your assistance? Male officers who restrain and apprehend the abuser. At the world trade towers why is it that 300 some policemen and fire fighters died for what a handfull of terrorists started? If you see the entire picture then you know that for every bad one there is at least 10 good ones. The reason men get such a bad rap is because everyone tends to see or seek the bad ones. What about all the good ones? Why do we overlook their deeds?
The phenomena Winter was describing is illustrated in the book"Women who Love too much" .I forgot the author but the movie"Boxing Helena " is a brilliant illustration of it. In it the subject is ignored or abused by one or both of their parents and long after that ,the subject seeks the same conditions in a partner trying to relive the event and no doubt, try to set things right this time. This is most likely the explanation for J. Lo and Ben Afflect.
winter2003
11-26-2003, 05:05 AM
FONDL--whoa, do not be too harsh on these women...we all develop different skills at different times, some never reach the "finish line"...you seem to be a rational individual, and these gals could have had prior life experiences that set up several hurdles to overcome. Thank you Shayden, i think it is true for many women...talking on a forum like this is beneficial to all(men &women)...we all are learning, growing, trying our damnedest to do the best we can!
*the whole "good boy VS bad boy" is much more complex than simple classifications or women wanting bad boys, and supposedly not liking nice guys...follow me? This is a SYMPTOM of the problem NOT the problem itself.
Topaz
11-26-2003, 06:06 AM
i tend to date guys like my father as well....or i used to....i stopped dating for a while when i noticed that pattern....haven't started back dating yet....but the guys like my dad don't woo me anymore....
and the only time i was even remotely impressed with the so called 'bad boy' was during my high school years and maybe the start of my college years...
don't have the time or the patience to deal with them now....but i have a lot of scars (and many old wounds) from when i did spend time with them....which is why i completely understand were ms. belle is coming from....
keep your head up girl....this too will pass....
[peace]
Hey Bella, don't feel so bad. My ex was so conniving that he told some old friends of mine that I didn't like them, and I thought his girlfriend was a bitch and a whore, all wich I had never said. He also told me they thought I was a bitch, and that I was stupid. As some one with a few learning disabilities being called stupid is not something I will forgive a friend for, and they know this. Any how all of the things he said were made up and he told them that he broke up with me, and began dating this girls best friend. I eventually called my friend to see why he was saying such mean things, and he told me he'd never said any of it. Well we all got together and busted my Ex's lying ass. Poor new girl was a virgin when she met him, how's that for a first expierence with men.
Hang in there, things will get better.
Fawn
Prester_John
11-26-2003, 08:18 AM
The surface image of someone is what we are attracted to. The deeper characteristics of a person are what optimally compel us to stay with them or leave them. It’s what turns lust to love.
Not all "Bad Boys" have worthy permanent characteristics. Not all "Nice Guys" do either. However, we live in an Image-based society, so the "bad boy (or girl)" image attracts far more people than the "nice guy/girl" does. Serious problems and pain are caused by the revelations of the deeper characteristics, which can be selfish and abusive. Further, a person still will cling to the "Image" for multitude of reasons, all wrong.
Bad Boy, Good Boy, Bad Girl, Good Girl - it doesn’t matter. If you are looking for the love of your life, or at least healthful, fulfilling love, you will never find it if all you want to see is the surface characteristics. If all you care about is the short term, then one would hope that you are aware of the emotional price you can pay for that, and it's worth that price.
Me? I don’t know if I am a Bad Boy or Good Boy in other people’s eyes. I have never cared. I have long hair, tattoos, a leather jacket, and am very sarcastic. I work in a bar. I also have a passion for History, for reading and soaking up knowledge on higher levels, have a penchant for dialectical conversations, and am very introspective. Plus I drink very little, abhor drugs, and respect other peoples space and property. I am neither a Bad Boy or a Good Boy in my realm. I am just me, and I will be me regardless. If someone thinks I am not "Bad Boy" enough for them, I truly do not feel any loss on my part. Its their opinion, which they are entitled to, and their loss, not mine.
Look deeper into a person, and you can see if they will cause you heartache or not. Stay looking on the surface, and most likely they always will.
scorpio
11-26-2003, 11:24 AM
Bella, I'm sorry to hear that the men in your life are asses! There are better ones out there. BTW, I have had planty of WOMEN do the same to me!
Katrine
11-26-2003, 11:39 AM
Wow, lots of bitter men here on this forum. Just remember basic evolutionary biology-most of you are here as cannon fodder, not meant to reproduce. Thus, you don't get laid as often, see the people who are getting laid, and become resentful.
I don't blame you, it would suck. Yes, this is an unpopular opinion, but I don't want to hear about how ALL these women always like only bad boys who treat them sooo sooo bad, and how much better you are as a person, but you are "nice" so you can't get a break to share your wonderful love.
I've dated so many "nice" guys, bleh. When a man tells me he is a "nice" guy, that is an automatic trigger that he isn't going to go to bed with me. This does not mean that the opposite is a beer gut abusive jerk....
Good luck Bella, now is the time to heal...
Meow! :)
sadbuttrue
11-26-2003, 12:44 PM
Wow, lots of bitter men here on this forum. Just remember basic evolutionary biology-most of you are here as cannon fodder, not meant to reproduce. Thus, you don't get laid as often, see the people who are getting laid, and become resentful.
I don't blame you, it would suck. Yes, this is an unpopular opinion, but I don't want to hear about how ALL these women always like only bad boys who treat them sooo sooo bad, and how much better you are as a person, but you are "nice" so you can't get a break to share your wonderful love.
I've dated so many "nice" guys, bleh. When a man tells me he is a "nice" guy, that is an automatic trigger that he isn't going to go to bed with me. This does not mean that the opposite is a beer gut abusive jerk....
Good luck Bella, now is the time to heal...
Meow! :)
Actually, with a true "nice guy", the ultimate goal is to care about and love someone, not about "getting laid". High school students and dogs do that as the "ultimate goal".
>>>Sad<<<
:)
Ok, I have two stupid questions...
I always went along with the thought that women matured faster. Now I'm thinking if they matured faster, why would they have to go through the "bad boy" stage first? Why does it take them until their 30s to figure that out? It's not a secret, it makes sense, but it seems to be a pattern...where's the maturity in that? Guys seem to be who they are as a person by about 16. Maybe women end up more mature than men in the end, but it seems to take a long, painful time to get there. Why go through all that heartache?
letstat1 to partiall answer your question(i might be a bit late)...i think we as women have alot of patience and if we really love someone we always have this thing where we look over certain things that our men might do to us sometimes we think that with time maybe he will change his ways ...which is rather stupid but its only human nature ...(or should i say woman nature ) what can i say just learn from your mistakes and if he's one way when you met him you better believe there is nothing you can do to make him change....unless that what he want to do ( which i doubt any man is gonna change their ways)
lestat1
11-26-2003, 01:10 PM
Wow, lots of bitter men here on this forum. Just remember basic evolutionary biology-most of you are here as cannon fodder, not meant to reproduce. Thus, you don't get laid as often, see the people who are getting laid, and become resentful.
Well if we're here, then for millions of years women found our (ancestors) DNA desireable so most of us on the planet are meant to reproduce (sometimes I wonder if that's a good thing :)). Most people end up getting married and having kids (I think). A few of us won't, and are the 'cannon fodder' you spoke of.
Yeah, we're bitter...but if it weren't for bitter lonely men, there wouldn't as much money to make as a dancer.
BigRed1970
11-26-2003, 01:14 PM
for me it is not just about "Laying pipe" is is about being attractive to you all. I am just tired of being used.
with the women I really like, the sex is not the goal. it is to be there and hold them, confort them, LOVE them. not fuck them. hell I can get that for a lot less grief and no stings attatched.
if I reall like a woman, my idea of a great time with her is to have a great night out on the town and then be able to hold them in my arms.
where I think of sex with them, I think more of trying to satify them and make them feel ooh so good. not just to get some. but to make them enjoy being with me.
I know that sounds cliche but that is the way I am. if that is boring to you ladies, them PLEASE tell me what you all really want....
yes I am bitter, but it is not with dancers, and not with "studs" it is that I really want to know what I am doing wrong. my problems begin outside the club.... at least with you all I know were I stand. If I am okay, you will let me get a dance from you, if not. oh well....
I really respect dancers, I have acually gotten in trouble by defending you to self righouse assholes, but I dont' care, I know why you do what you do, if they can't understand, fuck them.....
sorry I am a little buzzed right now, and bitter, not a good combo.... :-/
azuredee
11-26-2003, 03:44 PM
Well gee, I'd like to date a girl who looks like a supermodel, is a genius, likes to cook and clean for me, treats me very well, laughs at my jokes, likes dogs, is faithful, loyal, and honest, likes to cuddle and watch DVDs, is very affectionate, lets me take care of her sometimes, and will be my best friend and lover throughout my life. Now how many women on the planet match that description? :-/
-lestat1
Sorry...I don't cook ;)
I've actually found that the men I've dated over the years are the exact opposite of my father. They've all been starving artists who expect me to support them. Then six months into it, the sweet rainbows, roses and pretty pink haze is gone and suddenly I'm a worthless and not 'allowed' to go out with my friends on a Friday night.
After the last one, I took six months for me-time. In the last few weeks I've been seeing a guy who is amazing and not a starving artist. He opens doors, pays, drops me off before parking, offers me his jacket, excuses himself if he swears, hasn't pushed a physical relationship and he's taking me to the symphony this weekend. He's also 'hot'. The terrible part is that I'm beginning to be put off by all of this! A mutual friend tells me that he's always this way. Half of me is afraid that he's going to 180 on me and become an asshole. The other half is afraid he's not. What then??
Big Red, first you say you are tired of being used. Then you describe the perfect relationship as basically being used. I beleive this conflict may be a problem for you.
Lena
madgrad
11-26-2003, 06:41 PM
Bella,
If your personality is as half as good as your pictures, anyone who cheats on you is an idiot!!!
As for the bouncer, it sounds like he's got issues upstairs. Clearly tell him your not interested in him at all, and try to pass him on to someone who might be into him. Hopefully that will aleve the situation.
BigRed1970
11-26-2003, 11:06 PM
Big Red, first you say you are tired of being used. Then you describe the perfect relationship as basically being used. I beleive this conflict may be a problem for you.
Lena
you might be right, but I actually don't think of the above as being "used" I think of it as mutual because if she was really into me, I'd hope she would return the affection and dedication.
used to me is just leading me on and asking for "Favors" and taking me for granted while having no intention of ever getting serious.
I also know that my personality makes me an easy mark for this kind of exploytation. almost to the point that I now have trouble trusting any woman that is nice to me.... :-/
I used to be the typical "bad boy". I was always going out, partying, getting in trouble, drinking, ect.
I think that is what got the attention of my girlfriend. Now, we have a 2 year old daughter together and we don't party anymore. We spend our time doing more positive things such as going to parks, tennis, going for walks, and living a more positive, healthy life.
We are both much better off this way - physically, emotionally and spiritually. If i was a "nice guy" at the beginning I doubt we would have ever hooked up. However, if i continued my "bad boy" ways, I doubt our relationship would have made it this far. I guess relationships are like everything in this world - evolve or perish.
Richard_Head
11-27-2003, 05:41 AM
Wow, lots of bitter men here on this forum. Just remember basic evolutionary biology-most of you are here as cannon fodder, not meant to reproduce.
LOL, WTF is this suppose to mean ???.
you don't get laid as often, see the people who are getting laid, and become resentful.
I don't blame you, it would suck.
I don't think the resentment comes from not getting laid as often, it comes from our wasting time and energy pursuing women who tell us they want one thing and then finding out they are actually looking for the complete opposite.
I've dated so many "nice" guys, bleh. When a man tells me he is a "nice" guy, that is an automatic trigger that he isn't going to go to bed with me. This does not mean that the opposite is a beer gut abusive jerk....
......so you like the wannabe "bad boys" with the six pack abs ???, sounds like a nice guy in disguise to me.
doc-catfish
11-27-2003, 06:47 AM
Wow, lots of bitter men here on this forum. Just remember basic evolutionary biology-most of you are here as cannon fodder, not meant to reproduce. Thus, you don't get laid as often, see the people who are getting laid, and become resentful.
In cavemen times, perhaps I would agree with this, but the is the 21st century. I have no problem with the "getting laid" part as it is ridiculously easy for any guy if he's willing to lower his standards enough. I'm not trying to spread my seed around, but win a gal's heart. Should I succeed at the latter, I have enough sense to know that getting laid will probably take care of itself.
I don't blame you, it would suck. Yes, this is an unpopular opinion, but I don't want to hear about how ALL these women always like only bad boys who treat them sooo sooo bad, and how much better you are as a person, but you are "nice" so you can't get a break to share your wonderful love.
See, this is what I mean. If jerk man dares to protest all the hoops you women him jump through, he's "taking charge". If nice man complains, he's a whiny loser. Why should a nice guy play these types of games when the rules are fixed where he's going to lose? If you gals would take stock of this, it might show which type of man is really the spineless variety. Sorry, but I don't do hoops. I find them rather boring.
I've dated so many "nice" guys, bleh. When a man tells me he is a "nice" guy, that is an automatic trigger that he isn't going to go to bed with me. This does not mean that the opposite is a beer gut abusive jerk....
Couldn't help but notice your quotation marks around nice. If any man has to gall to announce himself as a "nice" guy to you, then what you really have is a shmuck pretending to be one. A genuine nice guy knows that his words won't mean shit if he can't back them up with his actions.
on Nov 26th, 2003, 4:39pm, Katrine wrote:I've dated so many "nice" guys, bleh. When a man tells me he is a "nice" guy, that is an automatic trigger that he isn't going to go to bed with me. This does not mean that the opposite is a beer gut abusive jerk....
Katrine, what do guys say to you ? "Hi my name is bill, and i am a nice guy"
Eibon
11-27-2003, 07:12 AM
Wow, lots of bitter men here on this forum. Just remember basic evolutionary biology-most of you are here as cannon fodder, not meant to reproduce. Thus, you don't get laid as often, see the people who are getting laid, and become resentful.
I don't blame you, it would suck. Yes, this is an unpopular opinion, but I don't want to hear about how ALL these women always like only bad boys who treat them sooo sooo bad, and how much better you are as a person, but you are "nice" so you can't get a break to share your wonderful love.
I've dated so many "nice" guys, bleh. When a man tells me he is a "nice" guy, that is an automatic trigger that he isn't going to go to bed with me. This does not mean that the opposite is a beer gut abusive jerk....
Good luck Bella, now is the time to heal...
Meow! :)
This is an excellent point Katrine. The problem now is that due to the wonders of technology unfit types live much longer than they did in the past and women are basing their decisions on very superficial things - as such, the losers are starting to outbreed the winners - while the winners are taxed into slavery to support the losers. :(
Bella - I can see why you are angry, but -you- are the one that made a decision to be with this man, and not only that, but you attempted to "work things out" with him again. Stop going for idiots and your "I hate men" attitude may change ;)
Also, please don't project your bad experience with loser-man onto the next few guys you meet. I have to deal with that now... I've met a good girl but she's been dicked over so many times that it's difficult for her to forget that *I* am not *them*.
E
Katrine
11-27-2003, 06:59 PM
Allow me to rephrase. When I talked about getting laid, I meant dating, love, relationships,etc, not just sex. That was a vulgur way to state my point.
A "nice" guy allows the girl he is intersted in to talk about other guys she likes, and how poorly they treat her. He becomes like a girlfriend to her. All the while, he is thinking, "if I become her friend and lend her a sympthatic ear for her woes, she will think I am a sensitive nice guy and like me as much as I like her"....or something like that.
Meanwhile, the longer he patiently waits before he "sticks it in" (proverbially), the more we will see him as a big walking, weeping pussy.
Whether you like it or not, it is not disrespectful to a woman to make your romantic intentions clear. The acting as a friend with hopes of more is what I define as a nice guy. He ends up getting hurt by throwing out non-sexual vibes, then he resents women, then he comes to me either at the SC or in my nerdy programming job...and falls in love because I know what to tell him...yes, good for business.
Incidentally, someone made a good point earlier. It often takes 6 months plus for a jerk's true colors to show. We don't always seek it out, or are blinded by love, just as men are.
Oh, and bad boys are breakable. I've broken a couple of em myself...hehehehe!
Meow!
Happy Post Thanksgiviing....where's the pepto?
Dreamer
11-28-2003, 05:36 AM
Allow me to rephrase. When I talked about getting laid, I meant dating, love, relationships,etc, not just sex. That was a vulgur way to state my point.
It's a good thing you made that distinction.
A "nice" guy allows the girl he is intersted in to talk about other guys she likes, and how poorly they treat her. He becomes like a girlfriend to her. All the while, he is thinking, "if I become her friend and lend her a sympthatic ear for her woes, she will think I am a sensitive nice guy and like me as much as I like her"....or something like that.
I'd like to refine that thought a little more. A nice guy is one that is actually interested in you as a person not seeking you specificly for sexual rewards( although if he is sincere I think he should get serious consideration above the rest).
A person can pretend to be sensative when indeed they are not. THey could be standing there with words going in one ear and out the other. But you or I should be keen to that. I know if a person is listening or not.
Meanwhile, the longer he patiently waits before he "sticks it in" (proverbially), the more we will see him as a big walking, weeping pussy.
Either he's persistent or he is distrought that you've shunned his efforts to being sensative. That doesn't neccessarily make him a pussy.
Whether you like it or not, it is not disrespectful to a woman to make your romantic intentions clear. The acting as a friend with hopes of more is what I define as a nice guy. He ends up getting hurt by throwing out non-sexual vibes, then he resents women, then he comes to me either at the SC or in my nerdy programming job...and falls in love because I know what to tell him...yes, good for business.
I would hope it is acceptable to be forward with your romantic intentions. It is not always the case. As I said before I've defined what a nice guy is. The reason he gets hurt is because he believes he's lived up to that image that in turn is shunned by women who purportedly desired those qualities.
Incidentally, someone made a good point earlier. It often takes 6 months plus for a jerk's true colors to show.
Usually much less. They aren't known for patience.
We don't always seek it out, or are blinded by love, just as men are.
Oh, and bad boys are breakable. I've broken a couple of em myself...hehehehe!
Actually I would say the incidence is about even.
These are all my own opinions. I am in no way seeking an arguement. I accept your response to any of mine. These are simply reactions.
It's good that you are able to turn self centered, self serving "bad boys" into sharing sensative men. Not many women can do that. I wouldn't encourage any woman to make extensive efforts to do so however.
;)
Richard_Head
11-28-2003, 06:54 AM
Oh, and bad boys are breakable. I've broken a couple of em myself...hehehehe!
Seeing as how you've broken more than one, is it safe to say that you lose interest once they are broken and have become nice guys?
Miss Courtney
11-28-2003, 02:54 PM
I always seem to find myself with guys who are 'nice guys' when I meet them then find that after a few months they turn into a control frek and don't want me dancing anymore, obsessed in "finding out what really goes on in lap dances" etc. I got so tired of it I stayed single for about a year, now I have found my 'perfect' man, he lives in France, but is moving here soon. So I guess I will find out how he turns out.
Bella21
11-29-2003, 06:25 AM
Good God, look at my post go :) After reading all of these, I want to say... maybe the stereotype of girls going for "bad" guys and "nice" guys is all wrong. Maybe it just seems that way because everyone believes that stereotype and overlooks the "nice" guys that get the girls... also... wow, none of the guys have posted that they fall into the category of the bad guys, all claim to be the nice ones. I just thought that was an interesting coincidence? Winter - Actally, I think about that alot. I have a wonderful relationship with my dad. I have been looking for someone like him, hard-working, supportive, a good family man, etc. Obviously, I haven't found him yet and a part of that may be because I'm not really really looking for that yet, I'm not looking for a serious guy to marry me and have a family right now. I do want someone exciting, all I ask is for faithfulness and a little respect :(
Medusa
11-29-2003, 06:33 AM
I suddenly remembered why I don't do relationships anymore, they are so much work and they just aren't worth it.
Dreamer
11-29-2003, 06:35 AM
Courtney and Katrine. First of all Courtney, you never take anyones word of being a nice guy at face value. Everyone says they're a nice guy. The painfull part is finding out which ones actually are.
Katrine, I am not bitter because when I revealed to my first gf that I was a virgin and she freaked. She wanted a ladies man and the relationship immediately soured. I realize that when you are younger you are more rebellious. You don't want to be told what to do, you think you know too much and live forever, you just want to sow your wild oats and act crazy. In short ,you're simply a hormone driven fool. To you values, virtue= no fun. To a man mostly , good virtue puts you at the bottom or near so of the sex appeal list.
Now that I've been through that phase I've realized that it was just that- a phase. I was angry at the time but now I realize that it just helped me grow. Acquirring wisdom is painful but I'm glad I went through it otherwise I would have never seen the value.
FONDL
11-29-2003, 07:12 AM
Maybe the "nice guy, bad boy" labels are the wrong things to worry about. Maybe you should just avoid the control freaks and the game players/manipultors. If you do you'll probably end up with a guy who's fairly stable and mature, which isn't a bad combination.
lestat1
11-29-2003, 07:37 AM
also... wow, none of the guys have posted that they fall into the category of the bad guys, all claim to be the nice ones. I just thought that was an interesting coincidence?
The bad boys are too busy dating four women at once to post here, too busy with more "real" relationships than they can handle to go to SCs.
I don't think the guys here are pretending to be nice or anything like that. From the responses to this thread, if anything most of 'em are off trying to figure out how to be an asshole so they can get a date for a change.
Rayleen
11-29-2003, 08:47 AM
my maybe the stereotype of girls going for "bad" guys and "nice" guys is all wrong. Maybe it just seems that way because everyone believes that stereotype and overlooks the "nice" guys that get the girls............................................. .............. all I ask is for faithfulness and a little respect :(
Yeah~!
I think the bad boys get the girl thing is so out of proportion ::)
Plenty of nice guys get and more importantly are able to KEEP the girl.
It just seems as though more badboys do because the nice guys are busy being in a loving relationship instead of out there dating like people are becoming extinct or something :-/
Rayleen
11-29-2003, 08:55 AM
The bad boys are too busy dating four women at once to post here, too busy with more "real" relationships than they can handle to go to SCs.
See there's the problem if you ask me - that mind set- if you are dating more than one person , you are not in a "real" relationship. You are playing the field- not a niceguy quality in my book.
I don't think the guys here are pretending to be nice or anything like that. From the responses to this thread, if anything most of 'em are off trying to figure out how to be an asshole so they can get a date for a change.
I thinks that is truly sad if men are really thinking about trying to be a jerk - it just perpetuates and creates "man hater mind set"
I think alot of guys just use the bad boys get the girl excuse because it's easier for them to be selfish than to be considerate.
And unfortunatly, we women in general are too forgiving and we have allowed men to get away with disrespecting us for so long that men today have little concept of what makes a man a NiceGuy.
So many think its about being a sap rather than being responsible,faithful and strong.
Cupl4Strippers
11-29-2003, 09:44 AM
When I first read Bella's original post I had no intention of responding to it. Venting one's rage, as has been mentioned earlier, is healthy. Let the poison out and let the healing begin.
Today, however, I read the entire list of responses and the old memories came back. About seven years ago I could have written the same damn post about why I hated women. I was cheated on and lied to and about. She promised me she would ruin me financially and she almost did. I'm just now paying off all her debts.
She promised me she would turn our children against me. That backfired on her pitifully. I have to bribe my two oldest to buy her gifts for her birthday, Mothersday, and Christmas. The youngest does not remember what all went on back then.
Anyway, had I had access to a forum such as this back then I might have made a post about why I hate women. Instead, my buddies and I would head off for camping trips where I could vent in solitude. Some of the things I said back then are now really embarrassing. I blamed a gender for the actions of one person. That was fucking stupid. I know that now but it took me a long time to learn it.
I don't remember ever cultivating the image of me being either a nice guy or a bad boy but I probably did in junior high and high school. Back then, it was fashionable to be a bad boy around the guys and a nice guy around the girls. I don't know if that's a bad thing or a good thing but i do know this: Guys that cheated on their girlfriends or wives were looked down on. Guys that mistreated children were shunned and often beaten.
Eibon
11-29-2003, 10:17 AM
also... wow, none of the guys have posted that they fall into the category of the bad guys, all claim to be the nice ones. I just thought that was an interesting coincidence?
Hey now, --I-- never claimed to be a nice guy LOL
I used to be. A couple years ago that changed. And my sex life went wild.
Isn't that a coincidence? :)
E
lestat1
11-29-2003, 10:30 AM
See there's the problem if you ask me - that mind set- if you are dating more than one person , you are not in a "real" relationship. You are playing the field- not a niceguy quality in my book.
Yeah, I know. I meant "real" as in not a relationship for money. Something out there in the real world as opposed to the fantasy SC world. That's why I put real in quotes.
I thinks that is truly sad if men are really thinking about trying to be a jerk - it just perpetuates and creates "man hater mind set"
I think alot of guys just use the bad boys get the girl excuse because it's easier for them to be selfish than to be considerate.
And unfortunatly, we women in general are too forgiving and we have allowed men to get away with disrespecting us for so long that men today have little concept of what makes a man a NiceGuy.
So many think its about being a sap rather than being responsible,faithful and strong.
I've heard guys that I definitely wouldn't consider nice guys call themselves "nice guys." Other do use the whole situation as an excuse to be an ass instead of being a decent guy.
I've used the "I'm a nice guy" excuse to rationalize not changing who I am to be the more "confident, aggressive" type, or to rationalize being stuck single so much. But how much should a person change to suit the world? While I agree that men trying to be a jerk is sad, if it works, and if it's the only thing that seems to work...what other choice is there? If women my age like the exciting aggressive guy...does that mean I should try to be more like that, or stay who I am and wait it out? If women are attracted to the bad boy, who am I to say "No, you're wrong. You should be attracted to me, the nice guy" just because I think I'm right? But isn't changing into a jerk to please them completely giving up and doing the wrong thing?
Is it smarter to disagree with the world and do what you think is best, facing misery, or go with the rest of the world doing what you think is wrong and be happy?
I'm only 25 and lack experience...someone wiser than me please answer!
Jay Zeno
11-29-2003, 11:36 AM
Nice guy would include:
Polite.
Considerate.
Positive.
Complimentary.
He doesn't have to go to church. He doesn't have to be a wimp. He doesn't have to be a girlfriend, hoping he'll turn into a boyfriend.
One can be all of the above, with varying degrees of success, and have a full and satisfying sex life. I know that for a fact. If one wishes to turn into a "bad boy" simply to get laid, I might assume a certain amount of moral poverty there.
Good thread, Bella. :)
carmenNYC
11-29-2003, 03:27 PM
bella-- i';m sorry about your situation. it's crazy- you think you know someone so well, then you find out something and your whole view of that person is just destroyed.
remember my thread "love sucks"???? well. to make a long story short, i did some detective work and found out he'd been sleeping with someone else. and i thought i really knew him. ha! so anyway, i know exactly how you feel. dont let it get you down, just move on. this is an awesome thread BTW.
Dreamer
11-30-2003, 05:56 AM
Cupl4, if you would have posted your experience when you had difficulties with your woman chances are that you would not have gotten the support that Bella does.
You would have been thought of as a sucker, weak, a push over. Men do not get emotional support in this society. It is not considered "Manly" to express emotions , especially those of fear. Most men do not want to appear weak or needing help. So that is why they suppress their emotions. I'm glad you had the guts to anyway.
Lestat, be who you are! It doesn't matter how the rest of the world categorizes you. It's only you and God that know what you are like. If they don't like you , then they are incompatible to you , and you should seek others. Now I am talking about personal preferences, things that don't critically effect others because in society we all have to comply with agreed upon laws whether we agree to them or not.
If you try to live up to someone else's standard then you are only fooling them as well as yourself. If you lower your standards then you've settled for just that- lower standards. Keep your standards high and don't settle for less. You'll never find what you're after if you settle for less.
Bella, I'd have to say that it's possible this is more a incompatibility problem than an infraction. Instead of trying to change bad boys to your standards maybe it would be better to let them look elsewhere. There are girls out there that are for the one night stands, out to sow their wild oats, golddiggers, putting notches on their bedpost, or other reason that they don't want to settle down yet but simply play the field longer. For whatever reason, it may be that you just interacted with these people at the wrong "stage" of their life.
carmenNYC
12-01-2003, 04:48 AM
with this whole "challenge" thing, just a thought: perhaps "nice guys" provide a WAY bigger challenge than the "bad boys", if you just analyze it for a second. bad boys will bang just about anything with a pus*y, doestnt matter what morals you have (or dont) have, if you lie, cheat, or steal, they will still bang you. on the flip side, nice guys want an all around nice girl, right? so it might be a bigger challenge for a nice guy to accept you, faults and all....just something that popped into my everworking brain for you to chew on.
however, i myself am addicted to the challenge, the thrill, the drama, the passion of new relationships. all my life i've had short, intense relationships with bad boys. i rarely got attached, and i loved the thrill of it. i felt like i was floating on air at the beginning of each new relationship. however with my last boyfriend (we broke up, he cheated) it was the same thing, but lasted for a year & a half, and i actually fell in love with him. stupid me. the passion and drama was over the top, but he was a cheater and a liar. so, that's what i get for playing with fire. i have to admit i prefer drama to boredom. but maybe i've never REALLY been in love before. i think there's something deeper than the drama i desire, and i really do hope we girls appreciate the nice guys with time like KOBI said.
bambiblue
12-05-2003, 03:48 PM
Call me crazy....but you're going to get treated how you let yourself get treated. There are always those non-verbal cues that let us know wheather or not we are appreciated or loved by our signifigant other. if you ignore the way someone makes you feel then don't be surprised when he cheats on you or is an asshole because you could have prevented it by dumping his sorry ass before before he really got a chance to hurt you. You have to believe in your heart that you are beautiful, and worth being treated like the princess you are. If you don't love and respect yourself....noone else will either.
redbeard
12-05-2003, 04:30 PM
I am truly sorry that you have such trouble with relationships.
As for me, I have trouble in them to. I keep hearing that I am such a nice guy, or a sweetie, that someday I will make someone very happy; but as for you and me we'll I trust you like a brother so how can there be anything else.
Some BS line I suppose, trying to let me down easy.
My biggestest faults are that I get overprotective over the women in my life, mother, step-mother, sister and that tends to fall into girlfriends to.
A lot of times in realtionship they break it off because they say I am getting to attached and scaring them or that they feel that I don't wanna be around them. What gives I can't seem to find the common ground. Since highschool I've only had one realtionship that lasted more than 6 months.
Not that any of that matters now. I have become sick and gone on disability and I really don't see that I have much to offer a women anymore. So its the bachelor life for me.
I am truly sorry with the realtionship troubles.
I fervently wish that each one of you ladies can find the man (or the women if thats the case) that you are looking for and that you deserve.
Katrine
12-05-2003, 07:55 PM
ya know what's the worst...cheap fucking boyfriends..doens't matter if they are nice guys or not..my man wants to see me know but he claims he is tooo drunk to drive. I respect that..but I cant drive either...do he tries to convince me to drive over...drunk..doesn't have the decency to call his drunk ass a cabto get me over there..and we live 1 mile..again 1 freakin mile from one another..how can I marry this man?????????/
Meow
Bridgette
12-09-2003, 10:02 PM
I've heard guys that I definitely wouldn't consider nice guys call themselves "nice guys." Other do use the whole situation as an excuse to be an ass instead of being a decent guy.
I have seen this too. I have had plenty of asses try to tell me they're nice guys. Ha, as if just by hearing them say it, I'll suddenly believe it and want to be with them. It doesn't work.
I've used the "I'm a nice guy" excuse to rationalize not changing who I am to be the more "confident, aggressive" type, or to rationalize being stuck single so much. But how much should a person change to suit the world?
Don't change to suit the 'world'. Only change to suit yourself. Sometimes the 'world' isn't really the way it seems. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse. Do what makes you feel good about yourself. The rest will come.
While I agree that men trying to be a jerk is sad, if it works, and if it's the only thing that seems to work...what other choice is there?
Lots. There is no real formula for getting dates. What works for some won't work for others. If you're not a bad boy, trying to be won't work out well for you. If you're looking for a real relationship, trying to be something you're not will only get you someone you're not really into, and who's not really into you. IMO, that's not what 'works'.
If women my age like the exciting aggressive guy...does that mean I should try to be more like that, or stay who I am and wait it out?
Not all women your age like the exciting aggressive guy. Granted, probably most you find attractive do, but is that the type of girl you want? One who doesn't like / appreciate what you are?
If women are attracted to the bad boy, who am I to say "No, you're wrong. You should be attracted to me, the nice guy" just because I think I'm right?
If a woman is attracted to a bad boy, and you are not a bad boy, forget it and move on. There is no potential there. You want the ones who like your type.
But isn't changing into a jerk to please them completely giving up and doing the wrong thing?
Yes.
Is it smarter to disagree with the world and do what you think is best, facing misery, or go with the rest of the world doing what you think is wrong and be happy?
What makes you think doing what you think is wrong will make you happy? That will make you much more miserable than if you just do what you think is right.
I'm only 25 and lack experience...someone wiser than me please answer!
It seems you're a bit frustrated with the whole dating thing. First, relax. There are women who like your type, you just have to recognize them. Pay more attention to women in social settings. Watch the way they behave and respond around different types of men. Become a people-watcher! You can watch people on the down-low without them knowing or making them uncomfortable. Learn to do it. You will learn lots about what types of women go for what types of men, and how to read them or pick them out easier. Once you've learned how to better pick the right types of women, your chances at getting dates become higher. This is a great confidence booster!
If you have female friends that you talk to or hang out with, chances are, there is at least one who is interested in you, and you are just not getting the clue! This has happened to me - I gave a guy I liked clues for months before he realized I was interested and did something about it. I am not shy, but I also don't directly approach a guy. Many women are the same. If you pay more attention you will probably see more women dropping clues.
More importantly, I think you might be a little too hard on yourself. You don't have to question everything. Look at what is good and attractive about you. Focus on that rather than looking for things that may or may not be wrong with you. A sure way to keep your confidence low is to take being single as a sign there is something wrong with you. Recognize that having bad luck with the opposite sex doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with you.
Most importantly, relax. I can't stress that enough. Questioning too much will only make you more tense and self-critical, which makes it more difficult to meet the right women!
Niceguy
12-10-2003, 03:22 AM
It's ncie for all of you to have an entire forum discussion about me Niceguy.
Just kidding. If this keeps up I'll have to switch discussion post names.
Bridgette
12-10-2003, 05:18 AM
Oh, and one more thing. That whole 'alpha male' thing some people are writing about here is total bullshit. Yeah, most women want an 'alpha male', but the only thing 'alpha' about an asshole is the 'a' in Asshole. Bad boys are assholes.
shedevil4260
12-10-2003, 11:16 AM
Ya I'm soo over the bad boys stage. I think alot of young girls go through that. I got over that stage at 16 however. In my book nice guys DON"T finish last... :-*
Topaz
12-10-2003, 11:37 AM
i've discovered that i still greatly dislike the testosteroned ones...doesn't matter if he's a 'good guy' or a 'bad boy'...maybe that will change in the future...but not now...
Bella, what is wrong with the bouncer who has a crush on you? Did you ever take the time to get to know each other outside the club?
What do you consider to be a nice guy? You're going to college and working in a beat the system career but appear to be goal oriented.
Possibly the guys you meet that you feel are "too nice" are just putting on a good impression like you would when you meet someone new. I don't care how ambitious and nice a guy is when you just start dating, after you are in a relationship with him and are comfortable with each other, I'll guarantee you 9 out of 10 of these guys will stand up to you more than you say you want them to.
Just because a guy doesn't wear his cap backwards, carry a weapon, sell drugs, or act and look tough doesn't mean he is pussy whipped.
Is a white collar man weaker than a blue collar one? Of course not. He's just more refined.
Plus younger guys aren't openly ready for a commited relationship as younger women are.
Have you thought about giving some of the guys you feel are weak a chance by getting to know them? I think you''ll be surprised at how much more cool they are than you pictured them to be.